Quote from: AsenRG;963849And I don't, because in my game, vampires will be metaphors for whatever I decide they should be;).

Who cares, as long as you don't play as a supernatural rapist and then claim they're a metaphor for something else. Because the number of people I've seen use '#Vampires aren't sexual predators, just misunderstood', or even 'just playing my character', as justification for toxic behavior has been troublingly high. And most players will go by what's in the book. So this needs to be identified and addressed directly in an honest manner which enables players to deal with it safely and maturely.

So I'm intensely curious how someone who acknowledges #Vampires are rapists is going to handle this, and how the 'community' will respond.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;963873Who cares, as long as you don't play as a supernatural rapist and then claim they're a metaphor for something else. Because the number of people I've seen use '#Vampires aren't sexual predators, just misunderstood', or even 'just playing my character', as justification for toxic behavior has been troublingly high. And most players will go by what's in the book. So this needs to be identified and addressed directly in an honest manner which enables players to deal with it safely and maturely.

So I'm intensely curious how someone who acknowledges #Vampires are rapists is going to handle this, and how the 'community' will respond.

This is why I prefer the addiction metaphor. Sex has no place at a gaming table.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;963876This is why I prefer the addiction metaphor. Sex has no place at a gaming table.

Unless, of course, the people at the table agree they want it there.

Quote from: CRKrueger;963879Unless, of course, the people at the table agree they want it there.

And make sure they get those damn d4s out of the way first!

Quote from: CRKrueger;963879Unless, of course, the people at the table agree they want it there.

Quote from: Nexus;963887And make sure they get those damn d4s out of the way first!

Will that be an order of Book of Erotic Fantasy, Encyclopaedia Arcane: Nymphology, or Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;963876This is why I prefer the addiction metaphor. Sex has no place at a gaming table.

Why not both? With chainsaws and axes. And dwarves in in latex dancing around in the background. Ninjas in trenchcoats with katana, dueling for the fate of the world in the foreground?

Anything goes at The Table(tm).


Edit: I'll look at it, like I look at anything. If it's good. I'll buy it.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;963873Who cares, as long as you don't play as a supernatural rapist and then claim they're a metaphor for something else. Because the number of people I've seen use '#Vampires aren't sexual predators, just misunderstood', or even 'just playing my character', as justification for toxic behavior has been troublingly high. And most players will go by what's in the book. So this needs to be identified and addressed directly in an honest manner which enables players to deal with it safely and maturely.

Honest question: why are players (or anyone else, for that matter) supposed to learn how to deal with assholes by reading instructions from a book?

I'm not exactly one of those passive, shy guys; if someone gets on my nerves I make sure to let him know, and ok, I get it, I know that not everyone is like me, there might be other problems and situations etc. etc. but (and I'm telling this with the most neutral tone possible) if someone lets someone else abuse him (or her) because of what's written in a fucking book there are much deeper issues at work and some sidebar in an RPG manual isn't going to solve them.

We're talking basic social skills here; were I a writer, I would naturally assume that most of my readers have already developed them, and I'd think that asking me to keep in mind every possible fringe situation out there is grossly unfair.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;963898Will that be an order of Book of Erotic Fantasy, Encyclopaedia Arcane: Nymphology, or Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge?

I already have the first one. It did have some interesting information in it (particularly on romantic and social issues) butnever heard of the other two. What's in them? My games tend to include romantic and sexual elements fairly frequently as long as the players are cool with it and interested.

First, I strongly disagree with some previous statements. From empirical evidence, the gaming table is a very convenient place for sex.
And there's a reason why Vampire doesn't use d4s, I think.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;963873Who cares, as long as you don't play as a supernatural rapist and then claim they're a metaphor for something else. Because the number of people I've seen use '#Vampires aren't sexual predators, just misunderstood', or even 'just playing my character', as justification for toxic behavior has been troublingly high. And most players will go by what's in the book. So this needs to be identified and addressed directly in an honest manner which enables players to deal with it safely and maturely.

If I play it, it wouldn'tdepend on me anyway.
But if I run it, I plan to revert the vampires to monsters of disease.

QuoteSo I'm intensely curious how someone who acknowledges #Vampires are rapists is going to handle this, and how the 'community' will respond.

I guess you'd have to wait and see, then.

I hope it comes out like this

What We Do In the Shadows
https://youtu.be/Cv568AzZ-i8

Quote from: Luca;963928Honest question: why are players (or anyone else, for that matter) supposed to learn how to deal with assholes by reading instructions from a book?

I'm not exactly one of those passive, shy guys; if someone gets on my nerves I make sure to let him know, and ok, I get it, I know that not everyone is like me, there might be other problems and situations etc. etc. but (and I'm telling this with the most neutral tone possible) if someone lets someone else abuse him (or her) because of what's written in a fucking book there are much deeper issues at work and some sidebar in an RPG manual isn't going to solve them.

We're talking basic social skills here; were I a writer, I would naturally assume that most of my readers have already developed them, and I'd think that asking me to keep in mind every possible fringe situation out there is grossly unfair.

You mean you don't believe game designers should make sure they protect every type of person too fragile to interact unsupervised with their fellow human beings?

What kind of monster are you?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;963876This is why I prefer the addiction metaphor. Sex has no place at a gaming table.

It certainly did at the LARPs I was a part of. And nuWW claims that 34% of players met a significant other through the game.

So good on you, but sex is pretty central to the product for everyone else.

Quote from: Luca;963928Honest question: why are players (or anyone else, for that matter) supposed to learn how to deal with assholes by reading instructions from a book?

Because it's not a matter of dealing with assholes any more than LARP safety habits are for dealing with violent thugs.

Quote from: Luca;963928if someone lets someone else abuse him (or her) because of what's written in a fucking book there are much deeper issues at work and some sidebar in an RPG manual isn't going to solve them.

No disagreement there.

But certain rules and techniques do work as effective safety nets when implemented, so why shouldn't this book include them?

Quote from: tenbones;963965I hope it comes out like this

What We Do In the Shadows
https://youtu.be/Cv568AzZ-i8

Or this:

Quote from: CRKrueger;963977You mean you don't believe game designers should make sure they protect every type of person too fragile to interact unsupervised with their fellow human beings?

And this is why I'm worried.

It's not a matter of protecting the special snowflakes, because fuck'em. It's a matter of taking reasonable precautions in a game where players are expected to engage in problematic themes. Having too many controls is just as bad as having none at all, and too many people seem determined to pursue one of the two extremes.

Quote from: CRKrueger;963977You mean you don't believe game designers should make sure they protect every type of person too fragile to interact unsupervised with their fellow human beings?

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;964024It certainly did at the LARPs I was a part of. And nuWW claims that 34% of players met a significant other through the game.

So good on you, but sex is pretty central to the product for everyone else.

I tried to join vampire games in high school and could not stand the omnipresent freakishness. For example, one character's whole shtick was that he turned into mist and then re-materialized inside other people's body cavities. At first I thought it was just me, but after hearing so many horror stories of antisocial behavior I was given the impression that socially maladjusted misfits are the typical demographic of these games. No amount of warning labels are going to make an impression.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;964044I tried to join vampire games in high school and could not stand the omnipresent freakishness. For example, one character's whole shtick was that he turned into mist and then re-materialized inside other people's body cavities. At first I thought it was just me, but after hearing so many horror stories of antisocial behavior I was given the impression that socially maladjusted misfits are the typical demographic of these games. No amount of warning labels are going to make an impression.

Which is why they should just write the game for players without personality disorders or that require medical attention.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;963873So I'm intensely curious how someone who acknowledges #Vampires are rapists is going to handle this, and how the 'community' will respond.

Wait, so we can't play vampires now?