Some college majors are even custom made for such OCD, autistic, nitpicky, etc ... types:   mathematics, physics, engineering, etc ... where there's almost always a "correct answer" for questions on assignment or exams.

Quote from: Cole;416648The rules-lawyers of my experience aren't really like this - they're just regular assholes trying to wheedle out an advantage. It's not bothering them that the rules aren't applied perfectly, it's bothering them that the rules aren't being applied to their immediate benefit

I don't think I've met many types who fit the above description.  This sounds more like somebody who is just abusing the system for their own benefit, at the expense of everybody else.  Basically nothing more than pure personal self-interest.

The "rules lawyers" types I've met over the years, were very strict about the rules being applied correctly, regardless of whether they were benefiting or at a disadvantage.

Quote from: ggroy;416652I don't think I've met many types who fit the above description.  This sounds more like somebody who is just abusing the system for their own benefit, at the expense of everybody else.  Basically nothing more than pure personal self-interest.

The "rules lawyers" types I've met over the years, were very strict about the rules being applied correctly, regardless of whether they were benefiting or at a disadvantage.

That's interesting. Your experience is very different from mine.

Quote from: Cole;416654That's interesting. Your experience is very different from mine.

I thought the autistic type "rules lawyers" types I've played rpg games with in the past, frequently made the games really slow paced to the point of boredom.  Basically they would spend so much time on minutiae and doing things strictly "by the book" in detail, that the other players got bored very easily.

For example, if the players went to check out an area in the Anauroch (in the Forgotten Realms) where there was hardly anything there written on the map or in sourcebooks, the highly functioning autistic DM would just go through repeatedly saying "you didn't find anything" for hours or even multiple sessions repeatedly doing search type dice rolls.

Quote from: ggroy;416656I thought the autistic type "rules lawyers" types I've played rpg games with in the past, frequently made the games really slow paced to the point of boredom.  Basically they would spend so much time on minutiae and doing things strictly "by the book" in detail, that the other players got bored very easily.

For example, if the players went to check out an area in the Anauroch (in the Forgotten Realms) where there was hardly anything there written on the map or in sourcebooks, the highly functioning autistic DM would just go through repeatedly saying "you didn't find anything" for hours or even multiple sessions repeatedly doing search type dice rolls.

That certainly sounds awful.

For such highly functioning autistic types, highly detailed rulebooks and supplement setting type books, are "god's gift" of heaven to them.

Typically it was stuff like Rolemaster/MERP, 3E/3.5E D&D with tons of 3PP supplements, GURPS with tons of supplement books, etc ...

Quote from: Cole;416657That certainly sounds awful.

Apparently the other players who were also high functioning autistic, asperger, borderline, etc ... types, actually liked playing in such games.  The non-autistic, non-borderline, etc ... players typically quit after a number of sessions of being bored out of their skulls.

Quote from: Benoist;416485I fail to see how this thread constitutes defamation, and moreover, how this post of Tim Kask actually would refer to threads like this one? Harsh criticism here, okay. But it's full of links to actual posts written by Tim. It's not like people here are just making stuff up, barring their own opinions of what these posts show or mean about Tim.

PS: Why are you so worked up about this, Ken? A personal beef going on?

I'm pretty sure he's not talking about this thread but the comments in this blog post.

In other news:

hyperbole=/= slander.

Maybe next week we can work towards getting a handle on irony.


@ KenHR,  RE: the links to DF. I honestly think that some people believe that if you really don't name names- even if you use obvious substitutions- it doesn't count. My time in the Bay Area during the early 90's working for and dealing with the wilting flower children leads me to believe that  it's a hippy thing.

Quote from: GameDaddy;416622If you ever went to GenCon.

Nope.  There are a few local cons I attend, but "going to cons" never struck me as an especially fun part of being a gamer, so I've never made the trek.

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;416741Nope.  There are a few local cons I attend, but "going to cons" never struck me as an especially fun part of being a gamer, so I've never made the trek.

I never found them to be either.  In fact, I tend to find them rather dull.

Quote from: StormBringer;416262The phrase "Mentzer Basic" comes to mind.  Kids these days, don't know their history.  

Fuck. Thanks for making me feel old.

-=Grim=-

Quote from: GrimJesta;416839Fuck. Thanks for making me feel old.

-=Grim=-

No problem, you will get a bill in a couple of days.  

I'll be sure to include the few grey hairs I plucked out right after my realization. Hahha.

-=Grim=-

Quote from: Benoist;416574I NEVER understood why people were so keen on getting answers from "The Sage." I would read those columns and think, yes, just that: "grow some balls already!" Since then, it's only gotten worse though. Now the guys who tell you to grow some balls and make your own decisions already, like us, seem to be getting fewer and farther apart. The Official word of the publisher, the Errata, all that bullshit... that's depressing to watch so many people fall for that, honestly.

I hear ya. I also never understood the need or importance of "The Sage." Most of the time, when Dragon arrived at the gaming table, my group (the one that actually gave any kind of a damn about rules at all) would often look at the Sage column and wonder how any of that stuff ever came up in play. Or, if it looked like it could come up in play, we didn't put much weight in what the Sage said, beyond his rulings being a way to adjudicate the issue, rather than the way. The lag time between sending in a question and the possibility of an answer (which was slim, at best) made waiting on a decree from "higher up" a foolish dream at best. So the Sage columns were generally only of interest to us if they addressed something truly bizarre, so we could laugh at it.

The stuff Gygax wrote was taken a bit more seriously, but even then his "Sorcerer's Scroll" column and editorials were usually about stuff that didn't impact upon our game at the time of publication.

I've always taken errata seriously, but even then, it's never caused any game I've played to grind to a halt. Things that don't make sense have always been ruled upon on the fly.

Quote from: ColonelHardisson;416853I hear ya. I also never understood the need or importance of "The Sage."

either for me there were two types of Dragon Articles.

The ones written by Gygax or Greenwood which were examined with the benefit of the doubt.
The ones written by everyone else which were taken with a grain of salt.

We still called bullshit on anything we thought was wrong, even if the man himself wrote it.

My whole grade school and high school played that way, it was a while before I encountered people who did it differently.  I just thought to myself "Did you miss the 150 times Gary said 'Do whatever the fuck you want, it's your game?'"