I'm sure a number of you have been following the drekfest over on Twitter involving the BrOSR. My few interactions with them have been a mixed bag. Harmony Ginger is pleasant, but a bunch of others have been, to be even remotely charitable, obnoxious a-holes. I hadn't ever heard the term Jeffrogaxian until just recently (hey, gimme some slack, I DO live under a rock). This term is, quite honestly, baffling. If the BrOSR zealots are right and 'this is how it was always played in 1EAD&D', then shouldn't it just be Gygaxian? How can something be 'the one true way' if it's an idea spun out from someone that wasn't involved in the creation or production of classic D&D? If its some new evolution, then shouldn't it just be Jeffronian D&D?
Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on April 04, 2025, 08:27:16 PMI'm sure a number of you have been following the drekfest over on Twitter involving the BrOSR. My few interactions with them have been a mixed bag. Harmony Ginger is pleasant, but a bunch of others have been, to be even remotely charitable, obnoxious a-holes. I hadn't ever heard the term Jeffrogaxian until just recently (hey, gimme some slack, I DO live under a rock). This term is, quite honestly, baffling. If the BrOSR zealots are right and 'this is how it was always played in 1EAD&D', then shouldn't it just be Gygaxian? How can something be 'the one true way' if it's an idea spun out from someone that wasn't involved in the creation or production of classic D&D? If its some new evolution, then shouldn't it just be Jeffronian D&D?
Wut? Can you catch me up on what Jeffrogaxian is supposed to mean?
Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 04, 2025, 08:38:11 PMWut? Can you catch me up on what Jeffrogaxian is supposed to mean?
I think it's supposed to be the 'One True Way' that Gygax played AD&D and wrote into the rules as given by his Prophet Jeffro Johnson (or something like that, I'm not even sure).
I don't think that you are dealing with something intellectual with the BrOSR. It sounds more like a cult of personality centered around its leader.
Quote from: jeff37923 on April 04, 2025, 09:11:21 PMI don't think that you are dealing with something intellectual with the BrOSR. It sounds more like a cult of personality centered around its leader.
This. Who cares what that echo chamber rattles about? I just do my thing, undaunted by others, and am happy in my little world.
> If the BrOSR zealots are right and 'this is how it was always played in 1EAD&D', then shouldn't it just be Gygaxian?
Lol, that's a really great point. If Jeffro is The Best Historian, then it's Gygaxian. If Jeffro is The Guy With The Best Idea, then it's Jeffronian, as you say. They have to hold two false assertions to both be true. It's like something that can only exist as a result of some neural mistake, like that blue-yellow color.
The only reason I have even heard of the Brosr is Pundit's videos mentioning them. I don't know who this Jeffro guy is beyond the name and I don't care what he has to say about anything. He doesn't seem to really be any sort of authority on what Gygax did at his table and I don't particularly care about Gygax or what he did anyway. From what I can tell, this is the OSR's tendency toward one-true-wayism cranked up to absurdity.
Jeffrogygaxian is a sort of purist 1e ADnD. Gygax himself didn't even run 1e, he used a form of OD&D. However there are some play style elements of Gygax's style the BrOSR promote that are not always clear in the 1e DMG,like multiple play groups and downtime,and an assumption of 1:1 time. Gygax was not nearly as doctrinaire ofc.
Jeffro is a grifter and a liar, and uses Gygax to reinforce his own idiotic ideas about AD&D which were not how anyone actually played.
Most of the BroSR don't actually play D&D. They just enjoy being in an online community where they can brag about how tough they are and being a community where they feel safe to share how anti-semitic they are.
The awful thing is that Shadowdark's author recently said she thought they had interesting ideas. I'm guessing no one has told her about all the antisemitism and anti-gay diatribes by Jeffro. I tried, but she might have me muted, because like a lot of people she doesn't know who her real enemies are.
Seriously, if any of you have a good relationship with Kelsey Dionne, you should warn her. I can share (and have recently) on my X account MULTIPLE tweets expressing Jeffro's hatred of jews, gays, etc. And many of the BroSR only care about being in the BroSR because its a place they can feel safe to express how much they hate jews or other races.
She ought to be warned, because I'm guessing she doesn't know (because Jeffro is deceptive and hides that part as much as he can), and if she keeps associating with him it will eventually blow up in her face as soon as someone less nice than I am notices and wants to cause trouble for her.
So my latest interaction with the Bro's is "It's not attacking you if I say you never played AD&D cause you didn't run rule XYZ like we do or that I called you an asshole'. So I guess being a rude dickwad is just 'how some people are on the Internet and you shouldn't take it personally'.
Quote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 04:26:02 PMSeriously, if any of you have a good relationship with Kelsey Dionne, you should warn her. I can share (and have recently) on my X account MULTIPLE tweets expressing Jeffro's hatred of jews, gays, etc. And many of the BroSR only care about being in the BroSR because its a place they can feel safe to express how much they hate jews or other races.
She ought to be warned, because I'm guessing she doesn't know (because Jeffro is deceptive and hides that part as much as he can), and if she keeps associating with him it will eventually blow up in her face as soon as someone less nice than I am notices and wants to cause trouble for her.
Jew-haters blame anything and everything on the Jews. Their computer shut off out of nowhere? A Rabbi in New York used his kabbalistic magics to shut off his computer. He stubbed his toe on a rock in the middle of the sidewalk? A Jew placed it there using his Talmudic divining skills. He shit his pants? A Jew poisoned his non-kosher food using ancient tricks to destroy the goyim. So on and so forth.
These people would even blame Woke DND on Jews. 'The Jews imported infinite immigrants, following ancient instructions from (made up book) of the Talmud into the DND community for the sole purpose of undermining the Aryan DND community', says the Mexican born and raised in Mexico.
The mindset of these people is JEWJEWJEWJEWJEWJEWJEW... with occasional, if fleeting, interruptions of BLACKS or WOMEN or GAYS. They live for Jews. They live despite Jews. They need the Jews. But the Jews do not need them.
From what I understand, Jeffro has retired from the BROSR.
And the new leadership is trying to rebrand themselves in order to become less antagonistic.
Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on April 05, 2025, 09:17:10 PMSo I guess being a rude dickwad is just 'how some people are on the Internet and you shouldn't take it personally'.
Are you new here?
Quote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 03:28:57 PMJeffro is a grifter and a liar, and uses Gygax to reinforce his own idiotic ideas about AD&D which were not how anyone actually played.
Most of the BroSR don't actually play D&D. They just enjoy being in an online community where they can brag about how tough they are and being a community where they feel safe to share how anti-semitic they are.
The awful thing is that Shadowdark's author recently said she thought they had interesting ideas. I'm guessing no one has told her about all the antisemitism and anti-gay diatribes by Jeffro. I tried, but she might have me muted, because like a lot of people she doesn't know who her real enemies are.
Greetings!
I'm guessing that Kelsey was simply being diplomatic, and polite. Kelsey is strictly professional, and obviously works hard to cultivate gamers and fans--and while not being offensive to anyone or getting sucked into wallowing in the mud with trolls. Kelsey seems to place a very high priority on her game books being accessible and enjoyable for anyone and everyone. Kelsey is not interested in arguing controversial subjects that have nothing to do with gaming in general, and more importantly, her business, her products, and her reputation as a professional writer and game designer.
That's my impression.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on April 06, 2025, 03:20:36 AMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 03:28:57 PMJeffro is a grifter and a liar, and uses Gygax to reinforce his own idiotic ideas about AD&D which were not how anyone actually played.
Most of the BroSR don't actually play D&D. They just enjoy being in an online community where they can brag about how tough they are and being a community where they feel safe to share how anti-semitic they are.
The awful thing is that Shadowdark's author recently said she thought they had interesting ideas. I'm guessing no one has told her about all the antisemitism and anti-gay diatribes by Jeffro. I tried, but she might have me muted, because like a lot of people she doesn't know who her real enemies are.
Greetings!
I'm guessing that Kelsey was simply being diplomatic, and polite. Kelsey is strictly professional, and obviously works hard to cultivate gamers and fans--and while not being offensive to anyone or getting sucked into wallowing in the mud with trolls. Kelsey seems to place a very high priority on her game books being accessible and enjoyable for anyone and everyone. Kelsey is not interested in arguing controversial subjects that have nothing to do with gaming in general, and more importantly, her business, her products, and her reputation as a professional writer and game designer.
That's my impression.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Yes. This. Kelsey is never going to get involved in discussing anti-Semitism in the BrOSR. Just like she won't discuss Woke stuff, including Woke anti-Semitism. Her no politics rule is very strict. And she doesn't respond to "You should not associate with these people" posts.
Looked thru #BrOSR #Jeffrogaxian for a few minutes on X. Harmless.
Quote from: yosemitemike on April 05, 2025, 01:32:22 AMThe only reason I have even heard of the Brosr is Pundit's videos mentioning them. I don't know who this Jeffro guy is beyond the name and I don't care what he has to say about anything. He doesn't seem to really be any sort of authority on what Gygax did at his table and I don't particularly care about Gygax or what he did anyway. From what I can tell, this is the OSR's tendency toward one-true-wayism cranked up to absurdity.
This right here, I had never heard of this three-piece-chicken-mcnobody until Pundit whined and winged about him. Pundit makes a bad habit of signal boosting people he doesn't like.
But yeah Gyax shouldn't be treated as some saint or prophet of gaming, he was a good designer, that's all, and even then I still prefer some of Dave Arneson or Tom Moldvay ideas to Gyax's.
The only thing I'd disagree with you is I think OneTrueWayism has died out, it was more common in the early OSR when the sole point was attempting to emulate a style of play which was not in print at the time, since then the amount of OSR games that aren't just B/X or Advanced clones has skyrocketed. the last vestiges of OneTrueWayism are loud people on Twitter.
Quote from: Kuroth on April 06, 2025, 04:55:32 AMLooked thru #BrOSR #Jeffrogaxian for a few minutes on X. Harmless.
These idiots are never harmless.
Quote from: Omega on April 06, 2025, 10:59:40 PMQuote from: Kuroth on April 06, 2025, 04:55:32 AMLooked thru #BrOSR #Jeffrogaxian for a few minutes on X. Harmless.
These idiots are never harmless.
silly
Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on April 05, 2025, 09:17:10 PMSo my latest interaction with the Bro's is "It's not attacking you if I say you never played AD&D cause you didn't run rule XYZ like we do or that I called you an asshole'. So I guess being a rude dickwad is just 'how some people are on the Internet and you shouldn't take it personally'.
That's the biggest reason they are trash. The passive-aggressive "it's okay to admit you're not playing AD&D" shit they spout out constantly to sound superior to anyone else. It's somewhat understandable the idea that the game is "better" playing it RAW, but their attitude that you're not "doing it right" if you don't is why they get hated.
Before he took a break from interacting about the OSR, did Jeffro ever provide any commentary on AD&D 1e's initiative play? That's a guaranteed way to wind up conversation about first edition AD&D on the intarwebz, and if you're claiming to be an oracle of it, wouldn't you have
had to throw your hat in that ring at some point?
Quote from: yosemitemike on April 05, 2025, 01:32:22 AMThe only reason I have even heard of the Brosr is Pundit's videos mentioning them.
Quote from: Socratic-DM on April 06, 2025, 12:55:13 PMThis right here, I had never heard of this three-piece-chicken-mcnobody until Pundit whined and winged about him. Pundit makes a bad habit of signal boosting people he doesn't like.
Here's a not-too-distant interview with him that is on a channel I at least would argue is pretty notable, reasonable, and important:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HQAJkeSvEU
He has been around the OSR/D&D community at the edges and has interesting interactions sometimes. I don't hang out on the
X.com webzone so I don't get the sharp edges of any of his fans, but when Pundit said "Nazis get the hammer" on twitter and was mass reported and
banned for inciting violence (for referencing the banhammer), which took time and doing to get back, I'm gonna go ahead and point out that some of the people in this group are pretty clearly fanatics. Jeffro, when he is active, does have some people who kinda follow him around and get into shenanigans, and Pundit pointing out edgyboi antisemitism is pretty much spot on- I don't think that's the
defining element, but I haven't done a deep dive or anything.
The idea of stirring up a controversy that is adjacent to the OSR (a type of fundamentalist arguing from a specific corpus is not really any kind of game design discussion though) is kind of interesting, and demanding weird play schedules and incredibly real time DMing, like basically claiming that you have to be running a MUD at all times in your notes and in your head, it's... I mean, it's interesting and I can't be mad at all that people are trying it. The idea is appealing. The basis- that it's
the true way or even that
it was done that way at all is pretty much bullshit though. But it's still people choosing to believe in something and do cool hobby shit as a result so I just can't be too pissed about it.
It does seem like there's some weird pressure to do these open table games - Kelsey keeps bringing it up in all her interviews. I'd probably play in one but I don't really have any interest in running them or playing them regularly.
The "open table" stuff only really works in two cases: Online or if you run them at a game store/club, the latter of which actually makes sense to do since it's the OG "TSR Hobby Shop" style, and public games can easily fall apart if some people stop showing or can't make it some weeks. Anything else is IMHO trying to put a round peg into a square hole.
In my wiser years, I have come to realize that personality problems really do create problems for the games you create and play. Putting your name in a portmanteau with the original creator of D&D might indicate a slightly oversized ego.
Quote from: Socratic-DM on April 06, 2025, 12:55:13 PMGygax shouldn't be treated as some saint or prophet of gaming, he was a good designer, that's all, and even then I still prefer some of Dave Arneson or Tom Moldvay ideas to Gygax's.
The reason that Gygax is treated like a saint or prophet of gaming is simple -- he was the first to tell us about it.
Arneson (and Wesely and others) did it first, developed it first, showed it to Gygax first. But Gygax is the one who wrote it up and told the world about it. Some of the later authors (such as Moldvay, who you mentioned) were better and explaining things, but being FIRST gave Gygax a certain degree of street cred that no one else of that era could match. If Arneson had been better at writing up and pitching his ideas then he would have had a large percentage of the reverence given to Gygax.
Quote from: finarvyn on April 07, 2025, 10:14:41 PMThe reason that Gygax is treated like a saint or prophet of gaming is simple -- he was the first to tell us about it.
Arneson (and Wesely and others) did it first, developed it first, showed it to Gygax first. But Gygax is the one who wrote it up and
Quote from: this webzonePosts: 1,692
Are the other 1,691 posts also bait, or just this one?
Quote from: Nobleshield on April 07, 2025, 01:50:25 PMThe "open table" stuff only really works in two cases: Online or if you run them at a game store/club, the latter of which actually makes sense to do since it's the OG "TSR Hobby Shop" style, and public games can easily fall apart if some people stop showing or can't make it some weeks. Anything else is IMHO trying to put a round peg into a square hole.
It wasn't just the TSR Hobby Shop style, it was pretty normal in the early days. And games could never fall apart, because there weren't story arcs or whatnot. People showed up with their characters, went into a dungeon, came out, then went home. Sometimes they stayed really late.
Quote from: finarvyn on April 07, 2025, 10:14:41 PMQuote from: Socratic-DM on April 06, 2025, 12:55:13 PMGygax shouldn't be treated as some saint or prophet of gaming, he was a good designer, that's all, and even then I still prefer some of Dave Arneson or Tom Moldvay ideas to Gygax's.
The reason that Gygax is treated like a saint or prophet of gaming is simple -- he was the first to tell us about it.
Arneson (and Wesely and others) did it first, developed it first, showed it to Gygax first. But Gygax is the one who wrote it up and told the world about it. Some of the later authors (such as Moldvay, who you mentioned) were better and explaining things, but being FIRST gave Gygax a certain degree of street cred that no one else of that era could match. If Arneson had been better at writing up and pitching his ideas then he would have had a large percentage of the reverence given to Gygax.
I think what make Gygax so revered with the 1e DMG. The OD&D rules are just a random bunch of rules, somewhat tersely written, after the pattern of wargaming booklets of the day. The DMG on the other hand, was sort of random, but he was incredibly verbose and covered a huge amount of subjects. I think he singled handedly added melee and tome and quaff and other archaic words back to the dialect. He was mimicking Vance's Dying Earth style of writing, who in turn mimicked CAS's Zothique and Hyperborean style.
Quote from: JeremyR on April 08, 2025, 01:58:50 AMQuote from: finarvyn on April 07, 2025, 10:14:41 PMThe reason that Gygax is treated like a saint or prophet of gaming is simple -- he was the first to tell us about it.
Arneson (and Wesely and others) did it first, developed it first, showed it to Gygax first. But Gygax is the one who wrote it up and told the world about it. Some of the later authors (such as Moldvay, who you mentioned) were better and explaining things, but being FIRST gave Gygax a certain degree of street cred that no one else of that era could match. If Arneson had been better at writing up and pitching his ideas then he would have had a large percentage of the reverence given to Gygax.
I think what make Gygax so revered with the 1e DMG.
Indeed, the
Dungeon Master's Guide by
Gary Gygax is the book that taught the world how to RPG.
I'll admit there are valid (if pedantic) arguments that can be made regarding D&D's "creator", but it's impossible to reasonably claim any other than Gary Gygax as its "prophet".
The Arneson Evangelists seem like the same people who would argue about who started reggae music.
Quote from: JeremyR on April 08, 2025, 01:53:33 AMQuote from: Nobleshield on April 07, 2025, 01:50:25 PMThe "open table" stuff only really works in two cases: Online or if you run them at a game store/club, the latter of which actually makes sense to do since it's the OG "TSR Hobby Shop" style, and public games can easily fall apart if some people stop showing or can't make it some weeks. Anything else is IMHO trying to put a round peg into a square hole.
It wasn't just the TSR Hobby Shop style, it was pretty normal in the early days. And games could never fall apart, because there weren't story arcs or whatnot. People showed up with their characters, went into a dungeon, came out, then went home. Sometimes they stayed really late.
I know everyone says this but as of the late 70s onward I never heard of saw open table gaming that they describe until just recently
Quote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 04:26:02 PMSeriously, if any of you have a good relationship with Kelsey Dionne, you should warn her. I can share (and have recently) on my X account MULTIPLE tweets expressing Jeffro's hatred of jews, gays, etc. And many of the BroSR only care about being in the BroSR because its a place they can feel safe to express how much they hate jews or other races.
She ought to be warned, because I'm guessing she doesn't know (because Jeffro is deceptive and hides that part as much as he can), and if she keeps associating with him it will eventually blow up in her face as soon as someone less nice than I am notices and wants to cause trouble for her.
or, let's not get into the cancellation game
I thought this group didn't do stuff like that
if we don't like the brosr guys, simply ignore them
Quote from: PencilBoy99 on April 08, 2025, 09:50:13 AMQuote from: JeremyR on April 08, 2025, 01:53:33 AMQuote from: Nobleshield on April 07, 2025, 01:50:25 PMThe "open table" stuff only really works in two cases: Online or if you run them at a game store/club, the latter of which actually makes sense to do since it's the OG "TSR Hobby Shop" style, and public games can easily fall apart if some people stop showing or can't make it some weeks. Anything else is IMHO trying to put a round peg into a square hole.
It wasn't just the TSR Hobby Shop style, it was pretty normal in the early days. And games could never fall apart, because there weren't story arcs or whatnot. People showed up with their characters, went into a dungeon, came out, then went home. Sometimes they stayed really late.
I know everyone says this but as of the late 70s onward I never heard of saw open table gaming that they describe until just recently
It was pretty common in my neck of the woods where I grew up (Omaha, NE). The three gaming stores there in the 80s were Star Realm, Dragon's Lair, and Hobbytown USA (Hobbytown USA was 1985 onwards). There were open gaming in the standard back room of the gaming store. You asked for permission, and if the time slot was open, it was your table.
The open gaming was also pretty common in the organized gaming clubs too. There were two of these I recall back in the day. They generally met at a community center where everyone paid a fee to help pay for the community center space to rent. I think it was like a couple of dollars. It wasn't much.
I think I'll elaborate more in a different thread: a day in the life of a gamer.
Clubs/stores fall under the "TSR Hobby Shop" style though. I certainly never heard of any home game behaving that way (or sandbox, or hexcrawl for that matter) until recently when it seems that "everyone" played that way.
Greetings!
I think the screaming about "Open Game" campaigns seems pretty silly to me. Yes, back in the day--and even nowadays, when the circumstances warrant--a DM or a group of DM's would establish a kind of "Open Game" campaign at the table. In my experience, this was done at my school, and also at the local game store. This is because there are lots of people, few are reliable and steady, and with new people always coming and going on the whim.
Yes, that kind of "Open Game" table campaign worked back in the day--and still does, where desired--but it certainly is not the main way, or the best way, or the ultimate way or whatever. Give me a break, right?
Most game groups were run at people's houses, same time, every week. Usually all night, and quite often all fucking weekend. Typically a DM, and 4-6 Players, maybe up to about 8. Usually 4 to 6 though. Same time, same channel, every week as the expression goes. Usually the same DM, and the same group of players, consistently. Periodically, a girlfriend or two would join the group as a player.
THIS was the norm, the standard. "Open Game" tables were what you did in public settings, with lots of people dropping in or dropping out, no consistency from week to week. People and game groups operate very differently however in regular, consistent, private game groups.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 08, 2025, 09:51:38 AMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 04:26:02 PMSeriously, if any of you have a good relationship with Kelsey Dionne, you should warn her. I can share (and have recently) on my X account MULTIPLE tweets expressing Jeffro's hatred of jews, gays, etc. And many of the BroSR only care about being in the BroSR because its a place they can feel safe to express how much they hate jews or other races.
She ought to be warned, because I'm guessing she doesn't know (because Jeffro is deceptive and hides that part as much as he can), and if she keeps associating with him it will eventually blow up in her face as soon as someone less nice than I am notices and wants to cause trouble for her.
or, let's not get into the cancellation game
I thought this group didn't do stuff like that
if we don't like the brosr guys, simply ignore them
I don't think anyone here was suggesting cancelling, they were suggesting warning her because others cancel for such things.
The interesting thing is a push for Open Gaming from WotC might have helped them solve their DM crisis as Open Gaming is all about a high player to DM ratio.
Funny its coming from the OSR where i've read the opposite ratio is an issue, that is getting 5e fans to give OSR a try.
Quote from: Nobleshield on April 07, 2025, 01:50:25 PMThe "open table" stuff only really works in two cases: Online or if you run them at a game store/club, the latter of which actually makes sense to do since it's the OG "TSR Hobby Shop" style, and public games can easily fall apart if some people stop showing or can't make it some weeks. Anything else is IMHO trying to put a round peg into a square hole.
Yes. Its mostly a game store thing. Some actually force it. Like you the DM have no choice who sits at your table and you have to run for them.
Fuck no. Not happening. Thats just getting on your knees and begging God for something to go so very wrong.
I have not seen it much online. More often with VTTs theres a open invite for players like normal in many circles. Then the usual screening processes to see if anyone is compatible.
Quote from: Omega on April 09, 2025, 06:13:07 AMQuote from: Nobleshield on April 07, 2025, 01:50:25 PMThe "open table" stuff only really works in two cases: Online or if you run them at a game store/club, the latter of which actually makes sense to do since it's the OG "TSR Hobby Shop" style, and public games can easily fall apart if some people stop showing or can't make it some weeks. Anything else is IMHO trying to put a round peg into a square hole.
Yes. Its mostly a game store thing. Some actually force it. Like you the DM have no choice who sits at your table and you have to run for them.
Fuck no. Not happening. Thats just getting on your knees and begging God for something to go so very wrong.
I have not seen it much online. More often with VTTs theres a open invite for players like normal in many circles. Then the usual screening processes to see if anyone is compatible.
My current game has had 8-12 players for about 3 years now, 4-7 of which show up on any given week. We play at my house, all people I know. Open table works perfectly for us.
I think it depends a lot on what the DM expects and encourages.
I dunno, I take the ideas that I find useful/interesting, and leave the rest behind. I'm not interested in the drama of either being against or for the brosr in any extreme way.
Speaking of "Jeffrogaxian" or BRosr. Check out this thread at Dragonsfoot.org (https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=93860).
It starts off pretty well on a discussion on if you can drop a multi-class to a single class. Everyone is giving suggestions, and most are reasonable. It's at page 3 where the derailment starts. I suggest that a DM (like myself) can do whatever they want. The user Chevale Manor then says "that is not btb" and his "one true way"-ism goes on from there in the thread.
Enjoy.
Quote from: blackstone on April 09, 2025, 09:19:45 AMI suggest that a DM (like myself) can do whatever they want. The user Chevale Manor then says "that is not btb" and his "one true way"-ism goes on from there in the thread.
If someone asks a by-the-book question, there is often exactly one by-the-book answer. Sometimes there are multiple, such as when different parts of the book say different things, likely an editorial oversight. Other times there's actually not any, as the book doesn't get into that detail. If you want to run a sweet little shop near the outskirts of town when you aren't adventuring, you obviously can, but there's not much guidance by the book on the details of that.
In that thread, the question seems to be, if you begin adventuring as a multiclass whatever and then want to drop one, can you do it? And the by-the-book answer is no, because there's nothing in the book that implies that or lets anyone respec in general. Several other posters swing by to offer how they would run it, and then there's some purity-spirallers who imply that it isn't
real D&D if you would let it happen, trying to appeal to their fellow extreme fundamentalist AD&D 1e DMG readers.
But in the context of a by-the-book question, there's a clear answer. And the answer doesn't pile on any judgments if a table ignores it or anything.
Quote from: Venka on April 09, 2025, 10:12:26 AMAnd the by-the-book answer is no, because there's nothing in the book that implies that or lets anyone respec in general.
It doesn't say in the DMG or PHB either way. There is no hard rule, therefore it's up to the DM to decide.
Quote from: blackstone on April 09, 2025, 09:19:45 AMSpeaking of "Jeffrogaxian" or BRosr. Check out this thread at Dragonsfoot.org (https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=93860).
It starts off pretty well on a discussion on if you can drop a multi-class to a single class. Everyone is giving suggestions, and most are reasonable. It's at page 3 where the derailment starts. I suggest that a DM (like myself) can do whatever they want. The user Chevale Manor then says "that is not btb" and his "one true way"-ism goes on from there in the thread.
Enjoy.
Wow. That guy is a martinet. He's facing overwhelming challenge to his world view and just isn't coping. I'd follow up on that contradictory magic armor weight question. What does +1 plate mail weight in his game, half of normal plate mail, or the same as ordinary clothing? ANY answer he gives means he's "not playing 1e" by his own definition.
Quote from: Mistwell on April 09, 2025, 09:39:05 PMQuote from: blackstone on April 09, 2025, 09:19:45 AMSpeaking of "Jeffrogaxian" or BRosr. Check out this thread at Dragonsfoot.org (https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=93860).
It starts off pretty well on a discussion on if you can drop a multi-class to a single class. Everyone is giving suggestions, and most are reasonable. It's at page 3 where the derailment starts. I suggest that a DM (like myself) can do whatever they want. The user Chevale Manor then says "that is not btb" and his "one true way"-ism goes on from there in the thread.
Enjoy.
Wow. That guy is a martinet. He's facing overwhelming challenge to his world view and just isn't coping. I'd follow up on that contradictory magic armor weight question. What does +1 plate mail weight in his game, half of normal plate mail, or the same as ordinary clothing? ANY answer he gives means he's "not playing 1e" by his own definition.
I know, right? I think his head would explode.
Please read on. This guy is either a troll or an actual follower of Jeffro Johnson and his "one true way" -ism. This jackass just won't quit. I don't think he even gets the sarcasm I'm using to mock the fool.
I have little problem going as btb as possible. I do know in older games that can be as issue. I really do like 1e AD&D, it has the most flavor of any of the editions, but there are contradictions that have to be worked out.
I posted once about Gary's comments on how he ran his barbarian in a party with magic users and what that looked like. The general response was "I don't care how Gary did it, btb says..." Cool, then we clearly aren't going to have a conversation.
For me, the rules are read in context of what the designer does (or doesn't do), to understand the spirit.
I get that some people are about the letter.
Sometimes, it's just what works best at our table.
Quote from: blackstone on April 09, 2025, 09:19:45 AMSpeaking of "Jeffrogaxian" or BRosr. Check out this thread at Dragonsfoot.org (https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=93860).
It starts off pretty well on a discussion on if you can drop a multi-class to a single class. Everyone is giving suggestions, and most are reasonable. It's at page 3 where the derailment starts. I suggest that a DM (like myself) can do whatever they want. The user Chevale Manor then says "that is not btb" and his "one true way"-ism goes on from there in the thread.
Enjoy.
UPDATE: as of right now, Dragonlance Adventures is not AD&D and half-elves cannot be paladins according to Chevale Manor.
that is all. carry on...But PLEASE read more. the thread over there is sarcasm abound.
Quote from: blackstone on April 09, 2025, 12:17:33 PMQuote from: Venka on April 09, 2025, 10:12:26 AMAnd the by-the-book answer is no, because there's nothing in the book that implies that or lets anyone respec in general.
It doesn't say in the DMG or PHB either way. There is no hard rule, therefore it's up to the DM to decide.
The rules also do not say a PC cannot flap their arms and fly.
I think both the letter of the law and the spirit of the law here are pretty clear. Just a player being a player trying to work things to his advantage. :p
Quote from: Digitalelf on April 05, 2025, 11:05:47 PMFrom what I understand, Jeffro has retired from the BROSR.
And the new leadership is trying to rebrand themselves in order to become less antagonistic.
That's funny because I suspect Jeffro was pandering to them in the first place.
Quote from: Socratic-DM on April 06, 2025, 12:55:13 PMQuote from: yosemitemike on April 05, 2025, 01:32:22 AMThe only reason I have even heard of the Brosr is Pundit's videos mentioning them. I don't know who this Jeffro guy is beyond the name and I don't care what he has to say about anything. He doesn't seem to really be any sort of authority on what Gygax did at his table and I don't particularly care about Gygax or what he did anyway. From what I can tell, this is the OSR's tendency toward one-true-wayism cranked up to absurdity.
This right here, I had never heard of this three-piece-chicken-mcnobody until Pundit whined and winged about him. Pundit makes a bad habit of signal boosting people he doesn't like.
But yeah Gyax shouldn't be treated as some saint or prophet of gaming, he was a good designer, that's all, and even then I still prefer some of Dave Arneson or Tom Moldvay ideas to Gyax's.
The only thing I'd disagree with you is I think OneTrueWayism has died out, it was more common in the early OSR when the sole point was attempting to emulate a style of play which was not in print at the time, since then the amount of OSR games that aren't just B/X or Advanced clones has skyrocketed. the last vestiges of OneTrueWayism are loud people on Twitter.
Well you might never have heard of them, but there was a while when they were en masse trolling every part of the OSR claiming that people should never play OSR games because "AD&D1e (Jeffro Version)" was the only game anyone should ever play.
Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 08, 2025, 09:51:38 AMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 04:26:02 PMSeriously, if any of you have a good relationship with Kelsey Dionne, you should warn her. I can share (and have recently) on my X account MULTIPLE tweets expressing Jeffro's hatred of jews, gays, etc. And many of the BroSR only care about being in the BroSR because its a place they can feel safe to express how much they hate jews or other races.
She ought to be warned, because I'm guessing she doesn't know (because Jeffro is deceptive and hides that part as much as he can), and if she keeps associating with him it will eventually blow up in her face as soon as someone less nice than I am notices and wants to cause trouble for her.
or, let's not get into the cancellation game
I thought this group didn't do stuff like that
if we don't like the brosr guys, simply ignore them
That's not the way to handle scum. Particularly if said scum is being promoted by the hot new commodity, who probably doesn't know how much they despise "the gays".
Quote from: blackstone on April 09, 2025, 09:19:45 AMSpeaking of "Jeffrogaxian" or BRosr. Check out this thread at Dragonsfoot.org (https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=93860).
It starts off pretty well on a discussion on if you can drop a multi-class to a single class. Everyone is giving suggestions, and most are reasonable. It's at page 3 where the derailment starts. I suggest that a DM (like myself) can do whatever they want. The user Chevale Manor then says "that is not btb" and his "one true way"-ism goes on from there in the thread.
Enjoy.
I almost forgot Dragonsfoot was still around. It's sure not as cool as it was circa 2003.
Quote from: RPGPundit on April 12, 2025, 07:11:38 AMWell you might never have heard of them, but there was a while when they were en masse trolling every part of the OSR claiming that people should never play OSR games because "AD&D1e (Jeffro Version)" was the only game anyone should ever play.
I found their claim, that anyone who wasn't playing RPGs their way had never been playing correctly, to be so laughable that I thought it was parody at first.
Quote from: FishMeisterSupreme on April 05, 2025, 09:50:39 PMJew-haters blame anything and everything on the Jews. Their computer shut off out of nowhere? A Rabbi in New York used his kabbalistic magics to shut off his computer. He stubbed his toe on a rock in the middle of the sidewalk? A Jew placed it there using his Talmudic divining skills. He shit his pants? A Jew poisoned his non-kosher food using ancient tricks to destroy the goyim. So on and so forth.
These people would even blame Woke DND on Jews. 'The Jews imported infinite immigrants, following ancient instructions from (made up book) of the Talmud into the DND community for the sole purpose of undermining the Aryan DND community', says the Mexican born and raised in Mexico.
The mindset of these people is JEWJEWJEWJEWJEWJEWJEW... with occasional, if fleeting, interruptions of BLACKS or WOMEN or GAYS. They live for Jews. They live despite Jews. They need the Jews. But the Jews do not need them.
To be fair, all that was me. But it was just one hilarious bender of a weekend.
Quote from: blackstone on April 10, 2025, 02:28:26 PMUPDATE: as of right now, Dragonlance Adventures is not AD&D and half-elves cannot be paladins according to Chevale Manor.
Hah, apparently Hill Dwarf Fighter/Clerics cannot actually advance as high as they're listed in
Unearthed Arcana if we go 'By the Book!' (Yes, I posted this on my Twitter account for those that saw it).
Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on April 14, 2025, 01:17:22 AMQuote from: blackstone on April 10, 2025, 02:28:26 PMUPDATE: as of right now, Dragonlance Adventures is not AD&D and half-elves cannot be paladins according to Chevale Manor.
Hah, apparently Hill Dwarf Fighter/Clerics cannot actually advance as high as they're listed in Unearthed Arcana if we go 'By the Book!' (Yes, I posted this on my Twitter account for those that saw it).
Yep. I copied the tables from the DA book and put them in the thread as well.
This guy's zealot-like adherence to RAW is comical, even with all of the contradictions within AD&D that everyone has pointed out.
Quote from: RPGPundit on April 12, 2025, 07:14:26 AMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 08, 2025, 09:51:38 AMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 04:26:02 PMSeriously, if any of you have a good relationship with Kelsey Dionne, you should warn her. I can share (and have recently) on my X account MULTIPLE tweets expressing Jeffro's hatred of jews, gays, etc. And many of the BroSR only care about being in the BroSR because its a place they can feel safe to express how much they hate jews or other races.
She ought to be warned, because I'm guessing she doesn't know (because Jeffro is deceptive and hides that part as much as he can), and if she keeps associating with him it will eventually blow up in her face as soon as someone less nice than I am notices and wants to cause trouble for her.
or, let's not get into the cancellation game
I thought this group didn't do stuff like that
if we don't like the brosr guys, simply ignore them
That's not the way to handle scum. Particularly if said scum is being promoted by the hot new commodity, who probably doesn't know how much they despise "the gays".
I looked around for the "antisemitic" posts from jeffro, or even anti-gay stuff, and I haven't been able to find anything.
If this guy is truly "scum" as you say, can you point me to some proof?
Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 14, 2025, 07:32:51 PMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 12, 2025, 07:14:26 AMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 08, 2025, 09:51:38 AMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 04:26:02 PMSeriously, if any of you have a good relationship with Kelsey Dionne, you should warn her. I can share (and have recently) on my X account MULTIPLE tweets expressing Jeffro's hatred of jews, gays, etc. And many of the BroSR only care about being in the BroSR because its a place they can feel safe to express how much they hate jews or other races.
She ought to be warned, because I'm guessing she doesn't know (because Jeffro is deceptive and hides that part as much as he can), and if she keeps associating with him it will eventually blow up in her face as soon as someone less nice than I am notices and wants to cause trouble for her.
or, let's not get into the cancellation game
I thought this group didn't do stuff like that
if we don't like the brosr guys, simply ignore them
That's not the way to handle scum. Particularly if said scum is being promoted by the hot new commodity, who probably doesn't know how much they despise "the gays".
I looked around for the "antisemitic" posts from jeffro, or even anti-gay stuff, and I haven't been able to find anything.
If this guy is truly "scum" as you say, can you point me to some proof?
I'm not that familiar with Jeffro, but I did find this blog post about him after a quick Google search.
https://camestrosfelapton.wordpress.com/2023/07/28/do-you-remember-jeffro-johnson/
Johnson works with Vox Day and is published by the latter's company, Castalia House. Day himself is an unapologetic bigot who has endorsed throwing acid in womens' faces. Jeffro hasn't endorsed such behavior that I'm aware of, but working with or for someone like Vox Day is a definite choice. But that's a conversation this forum probably isn't ready to have, as Alexander Macris is well liked here, and has ties to Day as well.
Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on April 14, 2025, 01:17:22 AMQuote from: blackstone on April 10, 2025, 02:28:26 PMUPDATE: as of right now, Dragonlance Adventures is not AD&D and half-elves cannot be paladins according to Chevale Manor.
Hah, apparently Hill Dwarf Fighter/Clerics cannot actually advance as high as they're listed in Unearthed Arcana if we go 'By the Book!' (Yes, I posted this on my Twitter account for those that saw it).
It wouldn't be AD&D without contradictions. That's part of the charm...I will say, though, that AD&D had more actual playtesting than just about any game that came after it, so when people smack talk Gygax they're essentially saying they do not understand game design at all.
Also I don't know who these BrOSR guys are but just sound like rubes trying to ride the coattails of Gygax et al to give their moronic ideas some legitimacy.
It's worse than that, they try to say that Gygax didn't play "correctly" because he didn't use all the rules as written. They got into an X debate with Rob Kuntz where they basically told him the same thing, that he played "wrong". Their main argument is basically "playing 100% RAW is superior to everything else" which is fine, but it's the holier-than-thou "We are the enlightened because we play by the book, and anyone who modifies rules isn't really playing AD&D" crap that's the problem.
Quote from: JanDevries on April 14, 2025, 08:19:54 PMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 14, 2025, 07:32:51 PMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 12, 2025, 07:14:26 AMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 08, 2025, 09:51:38 AMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 04:26:02 PMSeriously, if any of you have a good relationship with Kelsey Dionne, you should warn her. I can share (and have recently) on my X account MULTIPLE tweets expressing Jeffro's hatred of jews, gays, etc. And many of the BroSR only care about being in the BroSR because its a place they can feel safe to express how much they hate jews or other races.
She ought to be warned, because I'm guessing she doesn't know (because Jeffro is deceptive and hides that part as much as he can), and if she keeps associating with him it will eventually blow up in her face as soon as someone less nice than I am notices and wants to cause trouble for her.
or, let's not get into the cancellation game
I thought this group didn't do stuff like that
if we don't like the brosr guys, simply ignore them
That's not the way to handle scum. Particularly if said scum is being promoted by the hot new commodity, who probably doesn't know how much they despise "the gays".
I looked around for the "antisemitic" posts from jeffro, or even anti-gay stuff, and I haven't been able to find anything.
If this guy is truly "scum" as you say, can you point me to some proof?
I'm not that familiar with Jeffro, but I did find this blog post about him after a quick Google search.
https://camestrosfelapton.wordpress.com/2023/07/28/do-you-remember-jeffro-johnson/
Johnson works with Vox Day and is published by the latter's company, Castalia House. Day himself is an unapologetic bigot who has endorsed throwing acid in womens' faces. Jeffro hasn't endorsed such behavior that I'm aware of, but working with or for someone like Vox Day is a definite choice. But that's a conversation this forum probably isn't ready to have, as Alexander Macris is well liked here, and has ties to Day as well.
I looked at the link --obviously, one of the quotations attributed would offend a lot of people
but the link from there goes nowhere, and I can't see if it is
a) a false claim about something Jeffro said
b) something taken completely out-of-context
example: "The Nazis believed that a cabal of Jews run the world"
and some clips off "The Nazis believed" from this, and pastes the comment elsewhere
and I haven't seen the actual quote where Vox Day says anything about acid attacks --not saying it doesn't exist, but I only see leftists on reddit screaming "Vox Day endorses acid attacks on women"!
I am not defending Jeffro --I don't know him, but the Internet is full of nonsense and false allegations. Before we make any determination on him, I would ask for hard proof he is a "Nazi" or whatever, and that the allegations aren't simply coming from rumor, hearsay, and leftists making stuff up on social media
Vox Day is an edgelord who likes to generate publicity by saying outlandish things.
Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 15, 2025, 10:30:01 AMQuote from: JanDevries on April 14, 2025, 08:19:54 PMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 14, 2025, 07:32:51 PMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 12, 2025, 07:14:26 AMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 08, 2025, 09:51:38 AMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 04:26:02 PMSeriously, if any of you have a good relationship with Kelsey Dionne, you should warn her. I can share (and have recently) on my X account MULTIPLE tweets expressing Jeffro's hatred of jews, gays, etc. And many of the BroSR only care about being in the BroSR because its a place they can feel safe to express how much they hate jews or other races.
She ought to be warned, because I'm guessing she doesn't know (because Jeffro is deceptive and hides that part as much as he can), and if she keeps associating with him it will eventually blow up in her face as soon as someone less nice than I am notices and wants to cause trouble for her.
or, let's not get into the cancellation game
I thought this group didn't do stuff like that
if we don't like the brosr guys, simply ignore them
That's not the way to handle scum. Particularly if said scum is being promoted by the hot new commodity, who probably doesn't know how much they despise "the gays".
I looked around for the "antisemitic" posts from jeffro, or even anti-gay stuff, and I haven't been able to find anything.
If this guy is truly "scum" as you say, can you point me to some proof?
I'm not that familiar with Jeffro, but I did find this blog post about him after a quick Google search.
https://camestrosfelapton.wordpress.com/2023/07/28/do-you-remember-jeffro-johnson/
Johnson works with Vox Day and is published by the latter's company, Castalia House. Day himself is an unapologetic bigot who has endorsed throwing acid in womens' faces. Jeffro hasn't endorsed such behavior that I'm aware of, but working with or for someone like Vox Day is a definite choice. But that's a conversation this forum probably isn't ready to have, as Alexander Macris is well liked here, and has ties to Day as well.
I looked at the link --obviously, one of the quotations attributed would offend a lot of people
but the link from there goes nowhere, and I can't see if it is
a) a false claim about something Jeffro said
b) something taken completely out-of-context
example: "The Nazis believed that a cabal of Jews run the world"
and some clips off "The Nazis believed" from this, and pastes the comment elsewhere
and I haven't seen the actual quote where Vox Day says anything about acid attacks --not saying it doesn't exist, but I only see leftists on reddit screaming "Vox Day endorses acid attacks on women"!
I am not defending Jeffro --I don't know him, but the Internet is full of nonsense and false allegations. Before we make any determination on him, I would ask for hard proof he is a "Nazi" or whatever, and that the allegations aren't simply coming from rumor, hearsay, and leftists making stuff up on social media
Vox Day is an edgelord who likes to generate publicity by saying outlandish things.
I love when people pretend they don't know how to use Google because they really don't want the answers they're pretending to ask for. Here ya go, dipshit. Took all of 30 seconds.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Theodore_Beale
There are nearly a hundred citations in this article, many of them archived versions of Day's own blogs.
The links in my above post are gone because the Tweets in question were either deleted or Day's Twitter suspended. I don't know which.
And to be clear, I never said Jeffro was a nazi. I don't know what he has or hasn't said about Jews. But I'd be open to seeing any evidence. And I have tried unsuccessfully to find it on my own.
My point was that working and/or associating with Vox Day, personally or professionally, is a choice. And it says a lot about the person making it. After looking at the above article, and Day's own words, I ask you: would YOU associate with this individual, on a personal or professional basis? Would you want him and his statements associated with Fans of the Dead Games Society? What are your honest thoughts about his ideas?
Quote from: JanDevries on April 15, 2025, 10:45:27 AMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 15, 2025, 10:30:01 AMQuote from: JanDevries on April 14, 2025, 08:19:54 PMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 14, 2025, 07:32:51 PMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 12, 2025, 07:14:26 AMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 08, 2025, 09:51:38 AMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 04:26:02 PMSeriously, if any of you have a good relationship with Kelsey Dionne, you should warn her. I can share (and have recently) on my X account MULTIPLE tweets expressing Jeffro's hatred of jews, gays, etc. And many of the BroSR only care about being in the BroSR because its a place they can feel safe to express how much they hate jews or other races.
She ought to be warned, because I'm guessing she doesn't know (because Jeffro is deceptive and hides that part as much as he can), and if she keeps associating with him it will eventually blow up in her face as soon as someone less nice than I am notices and wants to cause trouble for her.
or, let's not get into the cancellation game
I thought this group didn't do stuff like that
if we don't like the brosr guys, simply ignore them
That's not the way to handle scum. Particularly if said scum is being promoted by the hot new commodity, who probably doesn't know how much they despise "the gays".
I looked around for the "antisemitic" posts from jeffro, or even anti-gay stuff, and I haven't been able to find anything.
If this guy is truly "scum" as you say, can you point me to some proof?
I'm not that familiar with Jeffro, but I did find this blog post about him after a quick Google search.
https://camestrosfelapton.wordpress.com/2023/07/28/do-you-remember-jeffro-johnson/
Johnson works with Vox Day and is published by the latter's company, Castalia House. Day himself is an unapologetic bigot who has endorsed throwing acid in womens' faces. Jeffro hasn't endorsed such behavior that I'm aware of, but working with or for someone like Vox Day is a definite choice. But that's a conversation this forum probably isn't ready to have, as Alexander Macris is well liked here, and has ties to Day as well.
I looked at the link --obviously, one of the quotations attributed would offend a lot of people
but the link from there goes nowhere, and I can't see if it is
a) a false claim about something Jeffro said
b) something taken completely out-of-context
example: "The Nazis believed that a cabal of Jews run the world"
and some clips off "The Nazis believed" from this, and pastes the comment elsewhere
and I haven't seen the actual quote where Vox Day says anything about acid attacks --not saying it doesn't exist, but I only see leftists on reddit screaming "Vox Day endorses acid attacks on women"!
I am not defending Jeffro --I don't know him, but the Internet is full of nonsense and false allegations. Before we make any determination on him, I would ask for hard proof he is a "Nazi" or whatever, and that the allegations aren't simply coming from rumor, hearsay, and leftists making stuff up on social media
Vox Day is an edgelord who likes to generate publicity by saying outlandish things.
I love when people pretend they don't know how to use Google because they really don't want the answers they're pretending to ask for. Here ya go, dipshit. Took all of 30 seconds.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Theodore_Beale
There are nearly a hundred citations in this article, many of them archived versions of Day's own blogs.
The links in my above post are gone because the Tweets in question were either deleted or Day's Twitter suspended. I don't know which.
And to be clear, I never said Jeffro was a nazi. I don't know what he has or hasn't said about Jews. But I'd be open to seeing any evidence. And I have tried unsuccessfully to find it on my own.
My point was that working and/or associating with Vox Day, personally or professionally, is a choice. And it says a lot about the person making it. After looking at the above article, and Day's own words, I ask you: would YOU associate with this individual, on a personal or professional basis? Would you want him and his statements associated with Fans of the Dead Games Society? What are your honest thoughts about his ideas?
are you seriously trying to get me to click on rationalwiki?
maybe you can put up some links to the Freedom Road Socialist blog or Jacobin Magazine while you are at it
when I said I tried to look things up, I was going to primary sources or reputable sites, not left-wing propagandists and liars
maybe the wiki links to some of Vox Day's stuff--but I don't care. Not going to give them web traffic or consideration
and like I said, Vox is an edgelord. But that wasn't the original issue: the claim was made that Jeffro was a Nazi, was condemning Jews, gays, blacks, whatever. I simply asked for some direct proof
I also said we shouldn't be calling people's employers and business associates to rat people out or get them cancelled. That is bullish* behavior that leftists engage in.
What is this thread actually about? I came in here hoping to see pictures of Gary Gygax at a Jefferson Airplane concert, and all I got was five pages of accusations that people I've never heard of and don't care about are either Jews or Nazis.
Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 15, 2025, 11:00:32 AMQuote from: JanDevries on April 15, 2025, 10:45:27 AMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 15, 2025, 10:30:01 AMQuote from: JanDevries on April 14, 2025, 08:19:54 PMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 14, 2025, 07:32:51 PMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 12, 2025, 07:14:26 AMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 08, 2025, 09:51:38 AMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 04:26:02 PMSeriously, if any of you have a good relationship with Kelsey Dionne, you should warn her. I can share (and have recently) on my X account MULTIPLE tweets expressing Jeffro's hatred of jews, gays, etc. And many of the BroSR only care about being in the BroSR because its a place they can feel safe to express how much they hate jews or other races.
She ought to be warned, because I'm guessing she doesn't know (because Jeffro is deceptive and hides that part as much as he can), and if she keeps associating with him it will eventually blow up in her face as soon as someone less nice than I am notices and wants to cause trouble for her.
or, let's not get into the cancellation game
I thought this group didn't do stuff like that
if we don't like the brosr guys, simply ignore them
That's not the way to handle scum. Particularly if said scum is being promoted by the hot new commodity, who probably doesn't know how much they despise "the gays".
I looked around for the "antisemitic" posts from jeffro, or even anti-gay stuff, and I haven't been able to find anything.
If this guy is truly "scum" as you say, can you point me to some proof?
I'm not that familiar with Jeffro, but I did find this blog post about him after a quick Google search.
https://camestrosfelapton.wordpress.com/2023/07/28/do-you-remember-jeffro-johnson/
Johnson works with Vox Day and is published by the latter's company, Castalia House. Day himself is an unapologetic bigot who has endorsed throwing acid in womens' faces. Jeffro hasn't endorsed such behavior that I'm aware of, but working with or for someone like Vox Day is a definite choice. But that's a conversation this forum probably isn't ready to have, as Alexander Macris is well liked here, and has ties to Day as well.
I looked at the link --obviously, one of the quotations attributed would offend a lot of people
but the link from there goes nowhere, and I can't see if it is
a) a false claim about something Jeffro said
b) something taken completely out-of-context
example: "The Nazis believed that a cabal of Jews run the world"
and some clips off "The Nazis believed" from this, and pastes the comment elsewhere
and I haven't seen the actual quote where Vox Day says anything about acid attacks --not saying it doesn't exist, but I only see leftists on reddit screaming "Vox Day endorses acid attacks on women"!
I am not defending Jeffro --I don't know him, but the Internet is full of nonsense and false allegations. Before we make any determination on him, I would ask for hard proof he is a "Nazi" or whatever, and that the allegations aren't simply coming from rumor, hearsay, and leftists making stuff up on social media
Vox Day is an edgelord who likes to generate publicity by saying outlandish things.
I love when people pretend they don't know how to use Google because they really don't want the answers they're pretending to ask for. Here ya go, dipshit. Took all of 30 seconds.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Theodore_Beale
There are nearly a hundred citations in this article, many of them archived versions of Day's own blogs.
The links in my above post are gone because the Tweets in question were either deleted or Day's Twitter suspended. I don't know which.
And to be clear, I never said Jeffro was a nazi. I don't know what he has or hasn't said about Jews. But I'd be open to seeing any evidence. And I have tried unsuccessfully to find it on my own.
My point was that working and/or associating with Vox Day, personally or professionally, is a choice. And it says a lot about the person making it. After looking at the above article, and Day's own words, I ask you: would YOU associate with this individual, on a personal or professional basis? Would you want him and his statements associated with Fans of the Dead Games Society? What are your honest thoughts about his ideas?
are you seriously trying to get me to click on rationalwiki?
maybe you can put up some links to the Freedom Road Socialist blog or Jacobin Magazine while you are at it
when I said I tried to look things up, I was going to primary sources or reputable sites, not left-wing propagandists and liars
maybe the wiki links to some of Vox Day's stuff--but I don't care. Not going to give them web traffic or consideration
and like I said, Vox is an edgelord. But that wasn't the original issue: the claim was made that Jeffro was a Nazi, was condemning Jews, gays, blacks, whatever. I simply asked for some direct proof
I also said we shouldn't be calling people's employers and business associates to rat people out or get them cancelled. That is bullish* behavior that leftists engage in.
Ahahahahaha I called it. You're gonna play the "I know you showed me where it is, but if I don't look at it, it doesn't exist" game, because you're afraid what you see won't support your narrative.
Rationalwiki be damned, that article has numerous archived blog posts from Vox Day himself. His own words. It doesn't get any more definitive or "primary" than that. But you're going to play the ad hominem game, while pretending that the proof doesn't exist. You're the kind of dope that would refuse a "socialist" fire department as your family burned alive.
And I never said that Jeffro was a nazi. Why are you responding to my post with arguments to things I never said? Oh, yeah, because you'll do anything to avoid looking at the evidence you pretended to want.
I also never talked about calling anyone's employers or business associates, and neither was anyone else in this thread.
And since your kitten wrists and delicate, ladylike fingers are too weak to use a keyboard, here are some choice links directly to Day's archived blog posts. I eagerly await your excuse for not viewing these, either.
Here is a blog post in which Day states, "...a few acid-burned faces is a small price to pay for lasting marriages, stable families, legitimate children, low levels of debt, strong currencies, affordable housing, homogenous populations, low levels of crime, and demographic stability."
https://web.archive.org/web/20120609084003/http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2012/06/scientist-beats-up-pz.html
And another, where Day brags about doxxing a woman for the purposes of harassing her. You know, that thing you're claiming to be against?
https://web.archive.org/web/20150414082652/http://voxday.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/to-sign-or-not-to-sign.html
There are many more, and more egregious, posts from Vox. I won't bother linking them, because if you really wanted to see the proof, you'd look right where someone told you it was, in Vox's own words. In other words, I know you won't read them, because you prefer the comfort of ignorance to the factual knowledge that has been freely offered to you.
Quote from: JanDevries on April 15, 2025, 12:38:07 PMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 15, 2025, 11:00:32 AMQuote from: JanDevries on April 15, 2025, 10:45:27 AMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 15, 2025, 10:30:01 AMQuote from: JanDevries on April 14, 2025, 08:19:54 PMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 14, 2025, 07:32:51 PMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 12, 2025, 07:14:26 AMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 08, 2025, 09:51:38 AMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 04:26:02 PMSeriously, if any of you have a good relationship with Kelsey Dionne, you should warn her. I can share (and have recently) on my X account MULTIPLE tweets expressing Jeffro's hatred of jews, gays, etc. And many of the BroSR only care about being in the BroSR because its a place they can feel safe to express how much they hate jews or other races.
She ought to be warned, because I'm guessing she doesn't know (because Jeffro is deceptive and hides that part as much as he can), and if she keeps associating with him it will eventually blow up in her face as soon as someone less nice than I am notices and wants to cause trouble for her.
or, let's not get into the cancellation game
I thought this group didn't do stuff like that
if we don't like the brosr guys, simply ignore them
That's not the way to handle scum. Particularly if said scum is being promoted by the hot new commodity, who probably doesn't know how much they despise "the gays".
I looked around for the "antisemitic" posts from jeffro, or even anti-gay stuff, and I haven't been able to find anything.
If this guy is truly "scum" as you say, can you point me to some proof?
I'm not that familiar with Jeffro, but I did find this blog post about him after a quick Google search.
https://camestrosfelapton.wordpress.com/2023/07/28/do-you-remember-jeffro-johnson/
Johnson works with Vox Day and is published by the latter's company, Castalia House. Day himself is an unapologetic bigot who has endorsed throwing acid in womens' faces. Jeffro hasn't endorsed such behavior that I'm aware of, but working with or for someone like Vox Day is a definite choice. But that's a conversation this forum probably isn't ready to have, as Alexander Macris is well liked here, and has ties to Day as well.
I looked at the link --obviously, one of the quotations attributed would offend a lot of people
but the link from there goes nowhere, and I can't see if it is
a) a false claim about something Jeffro said
b) something taken completely out-of-context
example: "The Nazis believed that a cabal of Jews run the world"
and some clips off "The Nazis believed" from this, and pastes the comment elsewhere
and I haven't seen the actual quote where Vox Day says anything about acid attacks --not saying it doesn't exist, but I only see leftists on reddit screaming "Vox Day endorses acid attacks on women"!
I am not defending Jeffro --I don't know him, but the Internet is full of nonsense and false allegations. Before we make any determination on him, I would ask for hard proof he is a "Nazi" or whatever, and that the allegations aren't simply coming from rumor, hearsay, and leftists making stuff up on social media
Vox Day is an edgelord who likes to generate publicity by saying outlandish things.
I love when people pretend they don't know how to use Google because they really don't want the answers they're pretending to ask for. Here ya go, dipshit. Took all of 30 seconds.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Theodore_Beale
There are nearly a hundred citations in this article, many of them archived versions of Day's own blogs.
The links in my above post are gone because the Tweets in question were either deleted or Day's Twitter suspended. I don't know which.
And to be clear, I never said Jeffro was a nazi. I don't know what he has or hasn't said about Jews. But I'd be open to seeing any evidence. And I have tried unsuccessfully to find it on my own.
My point was that working and/or associating with Vox Day, personally or professionally, is a choice. And it says a lot about the person making it. After looking at the above article, and Day's own words, I ask you: would YOU associate with this individual, on a personal or professional basis? Would you want him and his statements associated with Fans of the Dead Games Society? What are your honest thoughts about his ideas?
are you seriously trying to get me to click on rationalwiki?
maybe you can put up some links to the Freedom Road Socialist blog or Jacobin Magazine while you are at it
when I said I tried to look things up, I was going to primary sources or reputable sites, not left-wing propagandists and liars
maybe the wiki links to some of Vox Day's stuff--but I don't care. Not going to give them web traffic or consideration
and like I said, Vox is an edgelord. But that wasn't the original issue: the claim was made that Jeffro was a Nazi, was condemning Jews, gays, blacks, whatever. I simply asked for some direct proof
I also said we shouldn't be calling people's employers and business associates to rat people out or get them cancelled. That is bullish* behavior that leftists engage in.
Ahahahahaha I called it. You're gonna play the "I know you showed me where it is, but if I don't look at it, it doesn't exist" game, because you're afraid what you see won't support your narrative.
Rationalwiki be damned, that article has numerous archived blog posts from Vox Day himself. His own words. It doesn't get any more definitive or "primary" than that. But you're going to play the ad hominem game, while pretending that the proof doesn't exist. You're the kind of dope that would refuse a "socialist" fire department as your family burned alive.
And I never said that Jeffro was a nazi. Why are you responding to my post with arguments to things I never said? Oh, yeah, because you'll do anything to avoid looking at the evidence you pretended to want.
I also never talked about calling anyone's employers or business associates, and neither was anyone else in this thread.
And since your kitten wrists and delicate, ladylike fingers are too weak to use a keyboard, here are some choice links directly to Day's archived blog posts. I eagerly await your excuse for not viewing these, either.
Here is a blog post in which Day states, "...a few acid-burned faces is a small price to pay for lasting marriages, stable families, legitimate children, low levels of debt, strong currencies, affordable housing, homogenous populations, low levels of crime, and demographic stability."
https://web.archive.org/web/20120609084003/http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2012/06/scientist-beats-up-pz.html
And another, where Day brags about doxxing a woman for the purposes of harassing her. You know, that thing you're claiming to be against?
https://web.archive.org/web/20150414082652/http://voxday.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/to-sign-or-not-to-sign.html
There are many more, and more egregious, posts from Vox. I won't bother linking them, because if you really wanted to see the proof, you'd look right where someone told you it was, in Vox's own words. In other words, I know you won't read them, because you prefer the comfort of ignorance to the factual knowledge that has been freely offered to you.
wow, ok snowflake. For starters:
1. I never defended Vox Day, and stressed that he was pretty irrelevant to this conversation
2. You are playing some weird guilt-by-association thing regarding Vox and this Jeffry guy
3. You haven't showed me anything--you linked to a horseshi*, unreliable website which has a history of lying, misinformation, photoshopped content, etc. You didn't post actual links to Jeffro's blogs, feeds, whatever. Is that so hard to do?
why don't you take your bs over to reddit where it belongs
Quote from: Corolinth on April 15, 2025, 12:23:34 PMWhat is this thread actually about? I came in here hoping to see pictures of Gary Gygax at a Jefferson Airplane concert, and all I got was five pages of accusations that people I've never heard of and don't care about are either Jews or Nazis.
Just another typical day at the OSR...
(This is far from the first time some fruitcake OSR faction has made proclamations like this.)
Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 15, 2025, 01:34:57 PMQuote from: JanDevries on April 15, 2025, 12:38:07 PMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 15, 2025, 11:00:32 AMQuote from: JanDevries on April 15, 2025, 10:45:27 AMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 15, 2025, 10:30:01 AMQuote from: JanDevries on April 14, 2025, 08:19:54 PMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 14, 2025, 07:32:51 PMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 12, 2025, 07:14:26 AMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 08, 2025, 09:51:38 AMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 04:26:02 PMSeriously, if any of you have a good relationship with Kelsey Dionne, you should warn her. I can share (and have recently) on my X account MULTIPLE tweets expressing Jeffro's hatred of jews, gays, etc. And many of the BroSR only care about being in the BroSR because its a place they can feel safe to express how much they hate jews or other races.
She ought to be warned, because I'm guessing she doesn't know (because Jeffro is deceptive and hides that part as much as he can), and if she keeps associating with him it will eventually blow up in her face as soon as someone less nice than I am notices and wants to cause trouble for her.
or, let's not get into the cancellation game
I thought this group didn't do stuff like that
if we don't like the brosr guys, simply ignore them
That's not the way to handle scum. Particularly if said scum is being promoted by the hot new commodity, who probably doesn't know how much they despise "the gays".
I looked around for the "antisemitic" posts from jeffro, or even anti-gay stuff, and I haven't been able to find anything.
If this guy is truly "scum" as you say, can you point me to some proof?
I'm not that familiar with Jeffro, but I did find this blog post about him after a quick Google search.
https://camestrosfelapton.wordpress.com/2023/07/28/do-you-remember-jeffro-johnson/
Johnson works with Vox Day and is published by the latter's company, Castalia House. Day himself is an unapologetic bigot who has endorsed throwing acid in womens' faces. Jeffro hasn't endorsed such behavior that I'm aware of, but working with or for someone like Vox Day is a definite choice. But that's a conversation this forum probably isn't ready to have, as Alexander Macris is well liked here, and has ties to Day as well.
I looked at the link --obviously, one of the quotations attributed would offend a lot of people
but the link from there goes nowhere, and I can't see if it is
a) a false claim about something Jeffro said
b) something taken completely out-of-context
example: "The Nazis believed that a cabal of Jews run the world"
and some clips off "The Nazis believed" from this, and pastes the comment elsewhere
and I haven't seen the actual quote where Vox Day says anything about acid attacks --not saying it doesn't exist, but I only see leftists on reddit screaming "Vox Day endorses acid attacks on women"!
I am not defending Jeffro --I don't know him, but the Internet is full of nonsense and false allegations. Before we make any determination on him, I would ask for hard proof he is a "Nazi" or whatever, and that the allegations aren't simply coming from rumor, hearsay, and leftists making stuff up on social media
Vox Day is an edgelord who likes to generate publicity by saying outlandish things.
I love when people pretend they don't know how to use Google because they really don't want the answers they're pretending to ask for. Here ya go, dipshit. Took all of 30 seconds.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Theodore_Beale
There are nearly a hundred citations in this article, many of them archived versions of Day's own blogs.
The links in my above post are gone because the Tweets in question were either deleted or Day's Twitter suspended. I don't know which.
And to be clear, I never said Jeffro was a nazi. I don't know what he has or hasn't said about Jews. But I'd be open to seeing any evidence. And I have tried unsuccessfully to find it on my own.
My point was that working and/or associating with Vox Day, personally or professionally, is a choice. And it says a lot about the person making it. After looking at the above article, and Day's own words, I ask you: would YOU associate with this individual, on a personal or professional basis? Would you want him and his statements associated with Fans of the Dead Games Society? What are your honest thoughts about his ideas?
are you seriously trying to get me to click on rationalwiki?
maybe you can put up some links to the Freedom Road Socialist blog or Jacobin Magazine while you are at it
when I said I tried to look things up, I was going to primary sources or reputable sites, not left-wing propagandists and liars
maybe the wiki links to some of Vox Day's stuff--but I don't care. Not going to give them web traffic or consideration
and like I said, Vox is an edgelord. But that wasn't the original issue: the claim was made that Jeffro was a Nazi, was condemning Jews, gays, blacks, whatever. I simply asked for some direct proof
I also said we shouldn't be calling people's employers and business associates to rat people out or get them cancelled. That is bullish* behavior that leftists engage in.
Ahahahahaha I called it. You're gonna play the "I know you showed me where it is, but if I don't look at it, it doesn't exist" game, because you're afraid what you see won't support your narrative.
Rationalwiki be damned, that article has numerous archived blog posts from Vox Day himself. His own words. It doesn't get any more definitive or "primary" than that. But you're going to play the ad hominem game, while pretending that the proof doesn't exist. You're the kind of dope that would refuse a "socialist" fire department as your family burned alive.
And I never said that Jeffro was a nazi. Why are you responding to my post with arguments to things I never said? Oh, yeah, because you'll do anything to avoid looking at the evidence you pretended to want.
I also never talked about calling anyone's employers or business associates, and neither was anyone else in this thread.
And since your kitten wrists and delicate, ladylike fingers are too weak to use a keyboard, here are some choice links directly to Day's archived blog posts. I eagerly await your excuse for not viewing these, either.
Here is a blog post in which Day states, "...a few acid-burned faces is a small price to pay for lasting marriages, stable families, legitimate children, low levels of debt, strong currencies, affordable housing, homogenous populations, low levels of crime, and demographic stability."
https://web.archive.org/web/20120609084003/http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2012/06/scientist-beats-up-pz.html
And another, where Day brags about doxxing a woman for the purposes of harassing her. You know, that thing you're claiming to be against?
https://web.archive.org/web/20150414082652/http://voxday.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/to-sign-or-not-to-sign.html
There are many more, and more egregious, posts from Vox. I won't bother linking them, because if you really wanted to see the proof, you'd look right where someone told you it was, in Vox's own words. In other words, I know you won't read them, because you prefer the comfort of ignorance to the factual knowledge that has been freely offered to you.
wow, ok snowflake. For starters:
1. I never defended Vox Day, and stressed that he was pretty irrelevant to this conversation
2. You are playing some weird guilt-by-association thing regarding Vox and this Jeffry guy
3. You haven't showed me anything--you linked to a horseshi*, unreliable website which has a history of lying, misinformation, photoshopped content, etc. You didn't post actual links to Jeffro's blogs, feeds, whatever. Is that so hard to do?
why don't you take your bs over to reddit where it belongs
Snowflake? You're the one who's too fragile to click an internet link lmao.
1. I never accused you of defending Day. Not once. Try to keep up.
2. No, I'm not. I do, however, think that if someone decides to do business with Day, that says something about them as a person. This isn't about Jeffro being responsible for Day's actions, but about Jeffro being alone responsible for the choices he makes about the company he keeps.
3. No, it isn't "so hard to do." That's why my last post had two links directly to Day's archived blog, which I correctly predicted you would not read. I literally did post links directly to Jeffro's archived blog... two of them. As I expected, you're moving the goalposts yet again, and talking about anything but the facts, which are:
-You refused to click on the link I provided, even after I told you that it contained dozens of direct links to Day's own words, undeniably written by him on his blog, and archived for posterity by the Internet Archive. It should have been obvious, even to someone as dense as you, that I was not telling you to trust Rationalwiki, but rather to trust Day's own writings. The fact that you expect me to aggregate dozens of links to the Internet Archive, rather than just looking at the place that's done it already is absurd, and a bad faith argument. This is evidenced by the fact that, after you claimed that you couldn't possibly look at Rationalwiki without being triggered and literally shaking, I provided two direct links, which, as I predicted, you'd have some excuse not to read.
Why did you ask for something you had no intention of reading? Because you're full of shit.
Good God, could y'all PLEASE f'cking learn to cut down your posts to reply JUST to the specific post instead of the entire chain?
i must recruit these jewish nazis to help me against the communist shinto tribes of the northlands...
Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on April 15, 2025, 04:47:05 PMGood God, could y'all PLEASE f'cking learn to cut down your posts to reply JUST to the specific post instead of the entire chain?
In our defense any forum that isn't run by complete incompetents will do this automatically
Quote from: JanDevries on April 15, 2025, 06:46:49 PMQuote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on April 15, 2025, 04:47:05 PMGood God, could y'all PLEASE f'cking learn to cut down your posts to reply JUST to the specific post instead of the entire chain?
In our defense any forum that isn't run by complete incompetents will do this automatically
Nope, not at all - it's far better to have the flexibility, trust your users to learn how to use the tools, and be able to provide the relevant context where appropriate. For example, here, just replying to your sentence wouldn't tell the reader anything, but with the context from Insane Nerd Ramblings it's a lot easier to see how wrong you are.
When we're having a complicated discussion about RPGs, it's really nice to be able to interweave arguments & respond to points at a relevant location - unless we're going to start writing more formal essays & position papers?
Quote from: Corolinth on April 15, 2025, 12:23:34 PMWhat is this thread actually about? I came in here hoping to see pictures of Gary Gygax at a Jefferson Airplane concert, and all I got was five pages of accusations that people I've never heard of and don't care about are either Jews or Nazis.
Apparently it was originally about the merits of Jeffrogaxian D&D
it then turned into
"I heard somewhere from someone that Jeffro talked to Vox Day and made some politically-incorrect social media posts ... therefore we need to call up Jeffro's employer, business partners, etc. and make sure everyone understands he is guilty of wrong think"
basically something you would see on rpgnet or reddit
this Jeffro guy isn't important, and if people don't like his social media posts they should simply ignore him like I do
you would think "conservatives" would get it
Quote from: Naburimannu on April 16, 2025, 03:56:56 AMQuote from: JanDevries on April 15, 2025, 06:46:49 PMQuote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on April 15, 2025, 04:47:05 PMGood God, could y'all PLEASE f'cking learn to cut down your posts to reply JUST to the specific post instead of the entire chain?
In our defense any forum that isn't run by complete incompetents will do this automatically
Nope, not at all - it's far better to have the flexibility, trust your users to learn how to use the tools, and be able to provide the relevant context where appropriate. For example, here, just replying to your sentence wouldn't tell the reader anything, but with the context from Insane Nerd Ramblings it's a lot easier to see how wrong you are.
When we're having a complicated discussion about RPGs, it's really nice to be able to interweave arguments & respond to points at a relevant location - unless we're going to start writing more formal essays & position papers?
It's possible to have that flexibility and still auto-truncate quotes. Most forums do this.
Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 14, 2025, 07:32:51 PMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 12, 2025, 07:14:26 AMQuote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 08, 2025, 09:51:38 AMQuote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 04:26:02 PMSeriously, if any of you have a good relationship with Kelsey Dionne, you should warn her. I can share (and have recently) on my X account MULTIPLE tweets expressing Jeffro's hatred of jews, gays, etc. And many of the BroSR only care about being in the BroSR because its a place they can feel safe to express how much they hate jews or other races.
She ought to be warned, because I'm guessing she doesn't know (because Jeffro is deceptive and hides that part as much as he can), and if she keeps associating with him it will eventually blow up in her face as soon as someone less nice than I am notices and wants to cause trouble for her.
or, let's not get into the cancellation game
I thought this group didn't do stuff like that
if we don't like the brosr guys, simply ignore them
That's not the way to handle scum. Particularly if said scum is being promoted by the hot new commodity, who probably doesn't know how much they despise "the gays".
I looked around for the "antisemitic" posts from jeffro, or even anti-gay stuff, and I haven't been able to find anything.
If this guy is truly "scum" as you say, can you point me to some proof?
Sure. Here's some of his public comments, by which I mean stuff he's published on X/twitter, not even on more private spaces where he has only friendlies around him:
https://x.com/KasimirUrbanski/status/1912501762277130274 (https://x.com/KasimirUrbanski/status/1912501762277130274)