What is your favorite D&D Japanese variant, AD&D and 3e Oriental Adventures, Ruins & Ronins, etc, and why?
How many such variants, based on D&D, sharing basic compatible d20 mechanics pre and post TSR etc, are out there?
1e Oriental Adventures, but I admit much of that may be due to nostalgia. When it first came out, I was in love with it. I loved the martial arts rules, the weapon art layout, and the classes. To this day, Norlay Nguyen (a ninja/bushi) is still one of my all time favorite PCs
in fact, a while ago I put out a "Warriors of the Orient" expansion for LL on DTRPG.
There was a basic clone called Red Tide, I think. I looked at it once and thought it was interesting, but since lost it.
Bushido is my #1 game of choice for the genre. In D&D specifically, I recall using the characters from Dragon articles when I wanted a ninja or something to make an appearance .
This one (http://mystara.thorf.co.uk/jrc.html). Really, I think they should go back to this style for the new edition.
I hear Sword World is pretty cool.
...I may have misunderstood the question.
(http://mystara.thorf.co.uk/images/jrc-cover1.jpg)
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Quote from: thedungeondelver;752226(http://mystara.thorf.co.uk/images/jrc-cover1.jpg)
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I came here to post that same picture :/
OA is my favorite. The last big AD&D campaign I DMed was a combination of AD&D, OA, and Spelljammer.
OA had a pretty good system overall and covered alot of bases with some interesting approaches.
Was not impressed with the Roukugan d20 book when had a glance through it.
I'm playing an on-again, off-again D&D 3.5e game using the3.0e OA (a.k.a. L5R d20) game. Not the biggest fan of 3.X but it's serviceable enough. Also the Rokugan setting gets on my nerves but that's a different topic.
I think Red Tide takes the right approach – incidentally mirroring Black Vulmea's classic "a katana's just a longsword, you assholes!"nSamurai are just Fighters, ninjas are Assassins, yakuza are Thieves, sohei are Monks, yamabushi are Clerics, Daoist sorcerers are Magic-Users... and so on. I feel less is more and if I was running a D&D game cribbing from Japanese myth and culture, I'd just use my favorite TSR or OSR ruleset with little or no change.
What I would welcome would be cultural tidbits, NPCs and monsters. And maybe a more refined subsystem for unarmed combat in general because I dig both karate and jujitsu ;) but I'd be just as OK with winging it.
Quote from: The Butcher;752248I'm playing an on-again, off-again D&D 3.5e game using the3.0e OA (a.k.a. L5R d20) game. Not the biggest fan of 3.X but it's serviceable enough. Also the Rokugan setting gets on my nerves but that's a different topic.
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I do the same. One of the things that makes the 3E OA book work so well in my opinion is the plethora of 3E/d20 splat books out there. Normally not too into splat but brought in bits and pieces of the complete books, some relevant mongoose books, etc and it let me cobble together what I wanted.
Mad Monks of Kwantoom just came out for LL/AEC. Don't have it, but the author has a pretty good track record.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;752226(http://mystara.thorf.co.uk/images/jrc-cover1.jpg)
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That is the Japanese version of the D&D Rules Cyclopedia. They divided it into three booklets.
There are also some "replay" novels from a Mystara campaign I am told.
Found the Mystara replays. Looks like 5 of them.
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~sj2n-skrb/yas/novels/dd.htm
+1 on 1st Ed Oriental Adventures.
I loved the art and layout as well.
I like 1ed AD&D OA as well. New weapons, rules for personal and family honor, new classes, martial arts and modular armor rules were all nice. The only downside is that low level characters were a wee bit more powerful than you would expect. Poor 1HD creatures didn't stand a chance.
Quote from: languagegeek;752216Bushido is my #1 game of choice for the genre. In D&D specifically, I recall using the characters from Dragon articles when I wanted a ninja or something to make an appearance .
Mine as well, though I was tempted by the RQ based Land of the Samurai and Sengoku (though I have neither of those). I won't bother with "Oriental" jumblings of China and Japan.
Quote from: Benoist;752209What is your favorite D&D Japanese variant, AD&D and 3e Oriental Adventures, Ruins & Ronins, etc, and why?
Record of Lodoss War, the why is self-evident.
have to say I never found any to be truly suitable. I'm looking forward to see the day when someone gives China or Japan (or Korea!) the same treatment that I gave Arrows of Indra for India.
Quote from: RPGPundit;753324have to say I never found any to be truly suitable. I'm looking forward to see the day when someone gives China or Japan (or Korea!) the same treatment that I gave Arrows of Indra for India.
OA did a really good job of portraying Japan and China as depicted in the Martial arts and Samurai/Ninja movies from those countries at the time.
Quote from: Omega;753663OA did a really good job of portraying Japan and China as depicted in the Martial arts and Samurai/Ninja movies from those countries at the time.
Wait... you mean the original one? Dude, it really didn't. It did a really good job of portraying how a white guy who'd watched "Kung Fu" and read "Shogun" thought "the orient" was like in the 80s.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;753928Wait... you mean the original one? Dude, it really didn't. It did a really good job of portraying how a white guy who'd watched "Kung Fu" and read "Shogun" thought "the orient" was like in the 80s.
RPGPundit
Have you seen some of the Samurai and Martial arts movies from back then? Ninjas riding giant frogs battling a dragon, killer chess games, a wizard catching a demonic meteor with his eyebrows, the flying guillotine, 18 bronze men, etc.
OA totally needed a "Catch Meteor with Eyebrows" spell.
Quote from: Omega;753945Have you seen some of the Samurai and Martial arts movies from back then? Ninjas riding giant frogs battling a dragon, killer chess games, a wizard catching a demonic meteor with his eyebrows, the flying guillotine, 18 bronze men, etc.
OA totally needed a "Catch Meteor with Eyebrows" spell.
There are a lot of samurai / ninja type movies that aren't tokusatsu or yokai style. How about naming some of these weird movies - esp the eyebrows one?
If you want a good list of samurai movies, wikipedia comes in handy -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jidaigeki_films
For a
some camp + samurai + ronin + ninjas, this is a good one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shogun%27s_Samurai
Sonny Chiba in his prime, plus Hiroyuki Sanada when his was a young punk.
Plenty of good, serious ones on that list too.
I just came across this site too - lots of weird ones of the yokai sort, plus Japanese TV chambara type...
http://vintageninja.net
Quote from: Lynn;753956There are a lot of samurai / ninja type movies that aren't tokusatsu or yokai style. How about naming some of these weird movies - esp the eyebrows one?
Eyebrows = Zu: Warriors from the Magic Mountain. 1983
The giant frog one = Magic Serpent. 1966
18 Bronzemen and sequel = 1976
Flying Guillotine = 1974
And there are some very good Samurai movies out there too. 7 Samurai of course being well known. There is the whole Lone Wolf and Cub series starting in 72. Yojimbo in 61.
Lots of interesting influences on OA.
Great, but you can't say its in any way based on authentic history or myth.
Quote from: RPGPundit;754439Great, but you can't say its in any way based on authentic history or myth.
Uhhh...
Quote from: Omega;753663OA did a really good job of portraying Japan and China as depicted in the Martial arts and Samurai/Ninja movies from those countries at the time.
OA was, at best, like Tarantino's Kill Bill or the Memoirs of a Geisha movie. It copied the tropes of those old movies, but at a remove, without real understanding of the history and references.* So, if like Tarantino your primary experience with those movies are at a remove, then it's great. It has the same "feel". If you're more familiar with the historical and cinematic context of those tropes, then it kind of feels like a mess.
*This absolutely not meant as a criticism. Well, not for OA/Tarantino/Kill Bill/and similar fans, at least. The unfamiliarity with the cultural/historical context with those tropes is what gave Tarantino such an enjoyable experience watching those films, and it was that sense that he was trying to evoke. The same may certainly be said for OA as well. It may not be to my taste, but I cannot fault the sincere reactions of those seeing those films without the context.
Memoirs of a Geisha is still crap, though.
Quote from: RPGPundit;754439Great, but you can't say its in any way based on authentic history or myth.
A lot of the samurai ones that Sonny Chiba was in made reference to real people or places, or elements of folklore / mythology. They aren't as bad as trying to interpret Middle East history from Sinbad movies...but sometimes close. Many are campy fun.
Ive been on a Sonny Chiba kick recently and watched Legend of the Eight Samurai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_of_the_Eight_Samurai) last night - over the top villains, witch creatures that turn into giant centipedes and snakes and more. If you can get past the first 20 minutes of camp its enjoyable.
Quote from: Lynn;754767A lot of the samurai ones that Sonny Chiba was in made reference to real people or places, or elements of folklore / mythology.
They were about as accurate as "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves" would be an accurate portrayal of medieval english history, at best.
Quote from: RPGPundit;755246They were about as accurate as "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves" would be an accurate portrayal of medieval english history, at best.
That's about right.
Japan has its share of crappy and campy cinema and dumb, salacious comedy shows, etc. and sometimes that gets exported along with the really good stuff.
Quote from: RPGPundit;753324have to say I never found any to be truly suitable. I'm looking forward to see the day when someone gives China or Japan (or Korea!) the same treatment that I gave Arrows of Indra for India.
Pfft. You can do Japan accurately with RPGs out there right now. You don't need special rules. The problem with many... most... okay, maybe all Japanese themed RPGs is that fap way too much over the Tokugawa period and
Bushido: The Soul of Japan. The first has to be the most depressing time to a samurai and the second is a romantic's revisionist ideas on what the samurai where like. Dial back to the 8th to 12th century time frame. For the more weird fantasy, earlier is better and for those that like political intrigue, later is better. If you want to be lesser nobles rather than samurai exploring the wild wilderness of Japan that is even more crazy than 8th century, then the 5th to 6th century is good.
Quote from: zend0g;755272The problem with many... most... okay, maybe all Japanese themed RPGs is that fap way too much over the Tokugawa period and Bushido: The Soul of Japan. The first has to be the most depressing time to a samurai and the second is a romantic's revisionist ideas on what the samurai where like. Dial back to the 8th to 12th century time frame. For the more weird fantasy, earlier is better and for those that like political intrigue, later is better. If you want to be lesser nobles rather than samurai exploring the wild wilderness of Japan that is even more crazy than 8th century, then the 5th to 6th century is good.
Good assessment. The problem is that the Tokugawa age offers the most recognizable aesthetics; lacquered wooden masks, katanas and wakizashis, warring daimyo, ass-kicking sohei and yamabushi... and of course a slew of classic jidaigeki movies for inspiration.
Which is why my solution would be a frankly fantastic realm with C12 politics (pre-Genpei Wars) and C16 technology and aesthetics. I might even throw in a Chinese-inspired "fallen empire" to litter the land with dungeonesque ruins.
Quote from: zend0g;755272Pfft. You can do Japan accurately with RPGs out there right now. You don't need special rules.
Its not the rules that are the problem; its historical/mythological authenticity. Sure, anyone doing serious research could do japan accurately right now, but the point is having products out there that do the research for the average GM.
Quote from: RPGPundit;755763Its not the rules that are the problem; its historical/mythological authenticity. Sure, anyone doing serious research could do japan accurately right now, but the point is having products out there that do the research for the average GM.
I agree, but also I can appreciate how hard that can be.
Its not just translation of customs into game stats - like various attempts at point valuing "honor" - that never seem quite right. It is also the mind set which in certain eras of Japanese history aren't very conducive to the typical dungeon party sort adventure. That doesn't really fit well with the Edo era, for example, but works better in other eras.
Speaking of which, I thought a game based around a Mito Komon type story (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mito_K%C5%8Dmon) line would be good for Edo era. In a nutshell, he is the very powerful old uncle of the Shogun who travels around in disguise with his retainers, uncovering injustices, and then passing judgement.
Here's a sort of funny historical reference clip on Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38Cv8l6y3ik) from an episode. Funny because a Shogun who was born during the Year of the Dog made it a law to show respect to dogs, and made it a capital offense to kill a dog.
And the groovy theme song to the show... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l414wGtBeyw)
For the record, I'd be interested in something like this, especially if it wasn't Tokugawa era, which is neat and all, but kinda played out. Heian period maybe? Heian is cool.
Quote from: Lynn;755804It is also the mind set which in certain eras of Japanese history aren't very conducive to the typical dungeon party sort adventure. That doesn't really fit well with the Edo era, for example, but works better in other eras.
When we played OA it was about 99% wilderness adventures, castles, towers, and intrigue. We explored all of one dungeon and that was a cave system inhabited by some creatures.
Though if Id have seen Legend of 8 Samurai/Hakkenden back then I'd have likely rethought the validity of dungeoncrawling in an OA setting as the final confrontation is essentially a dungeon crawl.
Quote from: languagegeek;752216Bushido is my #1 game of choice for the genre. In D&D specifically, I recall using the characters from Dragon articles when I wanted a ninja or something to make an appearance .
Bushido is my undisputed champion in the field. Love it. Love that it's still available at '80s prices from FGU as well.
Quote from: Iosue;752221This one (http://mystara.thorf.co.uk/jrc.html). Really, I think they should go back to this style for the new edition.
As much as I bitch about manga-style art in RPGs, that art has a lot of charm.