TheRPGSite

This site and rpgpub are the only two sites where I don't have fear of being banned. But because of obvious asshole behavior, but because I dare say anything that goes against the established and rigid dogma that's allowed to be expressed.

I honestly feel like it's back in the 80s and 90s when the Right wing Christians would go absolutely nuts if you dared expressed ideas that went outside of their rhetoric.

Sites like rpg net will literally ban you and invent ways that you violated their "racism"policy. Same with enworld and many Reddit communities.

When the fuck did all this occur?

We have had some discussions about this. Personally I noticed something going wrong on rpg.net around 2011 or thereabouts. It was as if the so-called feminist antiracist punks with mommy and daddy issues had taken over.

I never saw the happy days of TBP (the big purple) and I joined there and here roughly at the same time, back in 2010-ish. Supposedly it was much better before then. For me it had very little 'there' there beyond sheer volume of posters allowing some diversity of RPG discussion. But even then it had its RPG darlings that it'd tout ad nauseum.

BoardGameGeek and its sister fora for CCGs and RPGs was always a nullity to me; the most superficial salesman/cheerleader spiel temerously seeking consensus with new target gamers. It was a place to be if you didn't know anywhere else to go. The gamer equivalent of a Power Center retail anchor and getting chatted up by the sales staff.

Reddit never interested me either for years and years. It read like sanitized water cooler talk, as if it was placed right out front of the HR dept and the latest birthday cake gathering. I never understood the appeal.

I am sure others are ecstatic being there and they are welcome to it.  8) May they continue their fun. It isn't for me and I have not learned as much about what interests me from them, but such is life. Viva le difference!

We typically don't want cross forum drama, but these are my feelings as I traveled various gamer communities. Why things have turned this way? Probably gets into politics, which is the other no-go for this forum. Let it be and enjoy sharing what you like -- we might be able to share back!

Let's see.  RPG.net. 

My first issue was a joke made about my own religion. 

2nd issue was defending RPG Pundit for writing Star Adventurer.  In reality I wanted my thread to stop talking about the author's politics and stay on topic of the game's good or bad points.  I was told off for telling people what to do, and that Pundit's poor behavior was very relevant so people could avoid giving money to the "wrong" people.

Then it happened again with David Guyll who wrote Dungeons and Delvers Dice Pool.  Again, I wanted to just talk about the game, but apparently David said something on twitter.  He's now a Nazi worse than Himmler because he used the term "woke" when talking about WotC.  I don't believe David is anything like that.  I've spoken to him on Legion of Myth podcast, and wrote emails back and forth about typos in his game.  He even offered to get me a replacement book for free.  Yeah.  What a monster, right?

I never looked back.  Their site starts with 5 causes as pop ups, including Black Lives Mater, a horrible charity that keeps all the money for themselves. 

Quote from: weirdguy564 on January 01, 2023, 12:48:49 PMI never looked back.  Their site starts with 5 causes as pop ups, including Black Lives Mater, a horrible charity that keeps all the money for themselves.

The pop ups are insane, and they just grow and grow. None of them have a thing to do with gaming, and they're all written like "this matter is settled, if you disagree you're Hitler, and we'll ban you."

Dear readers, for a laugh, give this a try. Google some rpg question, then check your results. Each hit has a handy part of a paragraph, showing you how that particular site may be discussing your relevant query. Except the RPG.net hit is just spouting "current thing" stances, no info!

Recent TLG "controversy" is a good example of how insanely cult-like TTRPGs communities had become recently. No longer you can remain neutral. If you are not sure what I'm talking about here's the whole story:
https://youtu.be/EzWbQUNeQxU

Quote from: Warlock on January 01, 2023, 03:37:56 PM
Recent TLG "controversy" is a good example of how insanely cult-like TTRPGs communities had become recently. No longer you can remain neutral. If you are not sure what I'm talking about here's the whole story:
https://youtu.be/EzWbQUNeQxU

I saw those twitter conversations about Troll Lord Games.  And I think its great that the vast majority of twitter users responding to the "controversy" of staying neutral are people who are expressing full support for TLG.  The "you are with us, or you are against us" fascists are greatly outnumbered, and they really look like out of touch whack jobs.

Quote from: Warlock on January 01, 2023, 03:37:56 PM
Recent TLG "controversy" is a good example of how insanely cult-like TTRPGs communities had become recently. No longer you can remain neutral. If you are not sure what I'm talking about here's the whole story:
https://youtu.be/EzWbQUNeQxU

Greetings!

Great article and commentary by Clownfish.

All of these Libtard morons screeching about company's posting that they are non-political is so mind boggling and pathetic. I can remember many jobs that I worked at where the general policy--beyond being patriotic for America--was no politics, no religion. If you ran your mouth about any of that while on company time, company premises--BOOM. You would be fired. Other employees and customers do not want to argue with you or be lectured to by you about politics or religion. That was pretty standard policies at most companies.

It also isn't surprising that many young activist Libtards are unemployed, and even holding down a minimum wage job as a Barista at Starbucks is a huge challenge for them. You see this all the time with so many of them.
"Why can't I dress however I want at work?";
"Why can't I sext my boyfriend while I am at work?";
"Why can't I run my mouth about politics at work?";
"Why can't I argue with customers and insult them?";

They literally believe they are entitled to act and behave like however they want at work, and have absolutely zero regard for authority, their bosses, their coworkers, or customers. They have zero sense of responsibility, humility, duty, and zero fucking work ethic.

So, fuck 'em. Let them be poor and broke and live in flop-house apartments wih gangs of their freak friends, going nowhere in life.

So often, these are the rank and file of the morons on Twitter, and the troglodytes that have infiltrated the RPG hobby.

Troll Lord Games needs to stand tall, and keep on crushing it.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM
This site and rpgpub are the only two sites where I don't have fear of being banned. But because of obvious asshole behavior, but because I dare say anything that goes against the established and rigid dogma that's allowed to be expressed.

I honestly feel like it's back in the 80s and 90s when the Right wing Christians would go absolutely nuts if you dared expressed ideas that went outside of their rhetoric.

Sites like rpg net will literally ban you and invent ways that you violated their "racism"policy. Same with enworld and many Reddit communities.

When the fuck did all this occur?

The big discussion thread on that topic.

https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/rpgnet-s-decay-tbp-madness/

It's been a slow burn over many years.

Quote from: Crusader X on January 01, 2023, 04:37:48 PM

I saw those twitter conversations about Troll Lord Games.  And I think its great that the vast majority of twitter users responding to the "controversy" of staying neutral are people who are expressing full support for TLG.  The "you are with us, or you are against us" fascists are greatly outnumbered, and they really look like out of touch whack jobs.

Over on RPGNet, most of the sympathy is with Jason Vey for being "censored." I can understand the position, even if I don't necessarily agree with it (I suspect he would have been fine if he hadn't brought race and class into it), but I wonder how many of TLG's critics would have taken, say, Gina Carano's side against the Infernal Mouse?

Quote from: Opaopajr on January 01, 2023, 11:44:02 AM
BoardGameGeek and its sister fora for CCGs and RPGs was always a nullity to me; the most superficial salesman/cheerleader spiel temerously seeking consensus with new target gamers. It was a place to be if you didn't know anywhere else to go. The gamer equivalent of a Power Center retail anchor and getting chatted up by the sales staff.

Reddit never interested me either for years and years. It read like sanitized water cooler talk, as if it was placed right out front of the HR dept and the latest birthday cake gathering. I never understood the appeal.

Oh BGG has gone full woke on top of their covert censorship of anyone the deem verboten. They will bend over backwards to kiss the ass of any company that greases their palm. And allow racial slurs against gamers that they look down on. But god forbid you call someone out on trolling or speak out against one of their hatemongering darlings.

Reddit is very hit and miss. I poked in a year ago and it was ok I guess. But not worth the hassle. But one of my friends is on it and reports that any given subredit can be total hell to speak out on as the groupthink is at mob rule level. This and the D&D subredit is pushing agendas on the sly. Other subs are just fine, quiet, but fine.

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 01, 2023, 01:09:25 PM
Dear readers, for a laugh, give this a try. Google some rpg question, then check your results. Each hit has a handy part of a paragraph, showing you how that particular site may be discussing your relevant query. Except the RPG.net hit is just spouting "current thing" stances, no info!

Even better, for the three I just tried TBP didn't even show up despite scrolling to at least 30 entries.

Quote from: Warlock on January 01, 2023, 03:37:56 PM
Recent TLG "controversy" is a good example of how insanely cult-like TTRPGs communities had become recently. No longer you can remain neutral. If you are not sure what I'm talking about here's the whole story:
https://youtu.be/EzWbQUNeQxU

Is this the one about Jason Vey mouthing off about vax at cons?

I couldn't get why TLG was getting so much flak...yeah, he wrote AA, but he wasn't stating policy for TLG as far as I could tell.

Quote from: PulpHerb on January 01, 2023, 08:37:27 PM

Quote from: Warlock on January 01, 2023, 03:37:56 PM
Recent TLG "controversy" is a good example of how insanely cult-like TTRPGs communities had become recently. No longer you can remain neutral. If you are not sure what I'm talking about here's the whole story:
https://youtu.be/EzWbQUNeQxU

Is this the one about Jason Vey mouthing off about vax at cons?

I couldn't get why TLG was getting so much flak...yeah, he wrote AA, but he wasn't stating policy for TLG as far as I could tell.

Yes, that one. I'm not saying he was wrong to voice his opinion, but that twit was downright insulting and I'm not suprised it got attention of Stephen Chenault. Jason was politely asked not to engage in the political/controversial topics while his account is obviously connected to TLG (alternatively he could delete all the links to TLG from his profile and continue voicing his opinion on whatever topic he wants). That's pretty straightforward company policy.

This was, however, not the reason why the hate came down on TLG. It is the statement that they want to remain apolitical and focused on games that caught the fire. I suspect some left wing content creator was behind this attack - most of the negative replies were coming from people that don't even follow TLG, have BLM in their profiles, and came there solely on the purpose of causing more drama.

If you go to the RPGnet you will find a now trending topic on TLG. Hypocrisy there is worth the read. I can bet they would approve TLG if Jason Vey has spoke against vaccines publicly and got silenced by the associated company. More - they would demand him fired.

Quote from: PulpHerb on January 01, 2023, 08:35:54 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 01, 2023, 01:09:25 PM
Dear readers, for a laugh, give this a try. Google some rpg question, then check your results. Each hit has a handy part of a paragraph, showing you how that particular site may be discussing your relevant query. Except the RPG.net hit is just spouting "current thing" stances, no info!

Even better, for the three I just tried TBP didn't even show up despite scrolling to at least 30 entries.

Yeah, it only really works for older games, or D&D  ;D

I think all the threads with actual useful info (rules queries/houserules etc) are 10-12 years old minimum at this point (some good Dark Heresy content for instance). What a damning statement all of its own.

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AMI honestly feel like it's back in the 80s and 90s when the Right wing Christians would go absolutely nuts if you dared expressed ideas that went outside of their rhetoric.

The difference is that back then, the people screeching about RPGs were outsiders. Once you got into a group of gamers, all that disappeared. But now, the primary people pushing The Messsge are gamers themselves so there is no way to escape them

Which is why the only new players I allow in my game are people who have never played RPGs before. It is the only way to be sure.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 02, 2023, 08:17:04 AM

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AMI honestly feel like it's back in the 80s and 90s when the Right wing Christians would go absolutely nuts if you dared expressed ideas that went outside of their rhetoric.

The difference is that back then, the people screeching about RPGs were outsiders. Once you got into a group of gamers, all that disappeared. But now, the primary people pushing The Messsge are gamers themselves so there is no way to escape them

Which is why the only new players I allow in my game are people who have never played RPGs before. It is the only way to be sure.

They're still outsiders though. None of them are actual dyed-in-the-wool gamers, they're ideologues riding a fad. There's not a one of them that would have called themselves an RPG gamer when the intro to the hobby used to be a middle aged man with a dusty boxed set, and a strange funk.

What we're seeing is equivalent to if the church ladies and evangelical preachers had started playing D&D, so they could destroy it from within.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on January 01, 2023, 05:30:32 PM
Over on RPGNet, most of the sympathy is with Jason Vey for being "censored." I can understand the position, even if I don't necessarily agree with it (I suspect he would have been fine if he hadn't brought race and class into it), but I wonder how many of TLG's critics would have taken, say, Gina Carano's side against the Infernal Mouse?

The one guy that was sympathetic towards TLG in that thread was permanently banned for sharing his viewpoint. The problem I found with RPGNet years ago was you pretty much had to walk on egg shells unless you expressed an opinion that was 100% in line with the moderators' politics. Most of the woke crowd seems to be like this, ban any dissenting opinions until it's a ridiculous echo chamber of thought.

Watching a free society/community dance into satanic panic/soviet union levels of speech suppression has been darkly fascinating to watch happen in real time.

Many of us here were on RPGnet since the jump. I think I was on in 2001/2002... so when all this bullshit started years ago it was pretty eye-opening.

I'm long over it. But when I got drop-kicked out, those were some fiery days of Nerdzerking. I pretty much laugh at all the fools there. It's like watching virtual Black Adder and Keystone Cops on Crack.

It amuses me that they're effectively LARPing-by-post in this metarpg called "Virtual Gulag: Thank you, They. May I have Another!"

Goblinoid Games has posted a policy that seems to sum up the next phase: "Certain controversial issues are not 'political', but Fundamental Human Rights, and you cannot disagree with us without being a Bad Person:" (Source: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/troll-lord-games-in-no-politics-imbroglio.905957/post-24639623 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/troll-lord-games-in-no-politics-imbroglio.905957/post-24639623))

Quote
Goblinoid Games' Statement on Politics
I know what you're thinking, "Man, not another ham-fisted statement about politics by a game publisher." Please bear with me.
This is a big discussion with much more nuance than I can capture here. I also don't claim to fully grasp all of the nuance, we can all keep learning. But what I want to say is that there are too many issues dismissed as "politics" to shut down discussion and opinions as if there are two legitimate sides to all of these issues.
What I mean by that is, for example, something like whether we should tax gas at the pump or wrap it into vehicle registration. So in that sense, yes, Goblinoid Games (me) isn't interested in discussing that kind of politics at the game table (though let's face it, game table banter often does stray afield of the task at hand!).
But often what people write off as "merely" politics are actually human rights issues. In that regard, I think those considerations should be taken into account where appropriate.
What that looks like in practice is working to not perpetuate or reinforce lies, bigotry, homophobia etc. To not contribute to the public and systemic forces and beliefs that strive to grind classes of people below an authoritarian boot.
So when I say trans men are men and trans women are women, or black lives matter, I'm not making a political statement. I'm acknowledging that every person should have the freedom to be who they feel they truly are. Or to not be systematically degraded so that society views some people as lesser or inferior.
Because when we refuse to openly discuss those issues we turn a blind eye to the reinforcing behavior that erodes the dignity from people and makes them feel unsafe and rejected by society. Brushing these topics aside because you don't want to tackle them or be self reflective is the same as saying you're content to perpetuate ideas that seek to hurt people. Kill people even. To keep people afraid and uncertain of their places in the world.
Therefore I encourage discussion when these issues come to the foreground, and I hope if I make any missteps people will correct me and I can learn something. Above all I want everyone to know that you are safe here and that I have your back in every way that's in my power. You are valued no matter who you are. You are valued because you are who you are. Human diversity is a beautiful thing when we can embrace it. We should enjoy that richness and enjoy each other.
Thanks for your time.
Dan

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on January 02, 2023, 09:56:00 AM
Goblinoid Games has posted a policy that seems to sum up the next phase: "Certain controversial issues are not 'political', but Fundamental Human Rights, and you cannot disagree with us without being a Bad Person:" (Source: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/troll-lord-games-in-no-politics-imbroglio.905957/post-24639623 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/troll-lord-games-in-no-politics-imbroglio.905957/post-24639623))

Pathetic.

Quote
But often what people write off as "merely" politics are actually human rights issues. In that regard, I think those considerations should be taken into account where appropriate.
What that looks like in practice is working to not perpetuate or reinforce lies, bigotry, homophobia etc. To not contribute to the public and systemic forces and beliefs that strive to grind classes of people below an authoritarian boot.
So when I say trans men are men and trans women are women, or black lives matter, I'm not making a political statement. I'm acknowledging that every person should have the freedom to be who they feel they truly are. Or to not be systematically degraded so that society views some people as lesser or inferior.

What you say is opinion (politics), what I say is fact.

Quote from: Warlock on January 02, 2023, 03:01:21 AM
Yes, that one. I'm not saying he was wrong to voice his opinion, but that twit was downright insulting and I'm not suprised it got attention of Stephen Chenault. Jason was politely asked not to engage in the political/controversial topics while his account is obviously connected to TLG (alternatively he could delete all the links to TLG from his profile and continue voicing his opinion on whatever topic he wants). That's pretty straightforward company policy.

This was, however, not the reason why the hate came down on TLG. It is the statement that they want to remain apolitical and focused on games that caught the fire. I suspect some left wing content creator was behind this attack - most of the negative replies were coming from people that don't even follow TLG, have BLM in their profiles, and came there solely on the purpose of causing more drama.

If you go to the RPGnet you will find a now trending topic on TLG. Hypocrisy there is worth the read. I can bet they would approve TLG if Jason Vey has spoke against vaccines publicly and got silenced by the associated company. More - they would demand him fired.

Ah. I say Jason's initial tweet, wondered when he became such a dick (I have a lot of his stuff and have enjoyed it and his commentary), and moved on.

Then I saw the TLG statement and figured it was in response (didn't see him asking Jason to pipe down and/or sever from TLG).

I know TLG enough to not have thought just because Jason wrote from them he was stating TLG policy, but others might not I guess so the request wasn't unreasonable. Similar to Alterna's "no block bot" policy if you are promoting books published throw them...you could block individuals but not by association with "bad" people.

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 02, 2023, 03:23:31 AM

Quote from: PulpHerb on January 01, 2023, 08:35:54 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 01, 2023, 01:09:25 PM
Dear readers, for a laugh, give this a try. Google some rpg question, then check your results. Each hit has a handy part of a paragraph, showing you how that particular site may be discussing your relevant query. Except the RPG.net hit is just spouting "current thing" stances, no info!

Even better, for the three I just tried TBP didn't even show up despite scrolling to at least 30 entries.

Yeah, it only really works for older games, or D&D  ;D

These were 3 5e questions. I wonder if all those pop-ups are disrupting the SEO. Would be some pretty karma.

LOL what a bunch of losers.

So for Goblinoid Games they get to be the sole dispensers of what is "political" and their made-up Human Rights are non-negotiable? LOL

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on January 02, 2023, 09:56:00 AM
Goblinoid Games has posted a policy that seems

to say "please eat me last".

Which is really the way to sell LL 2nd Edition.

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM
and rpgpub

Actually, I'll have to disagree with you on the pub sadly. I was banned for basically going 'against the grain' and supporting TDM's Mythic Polynesian release. Now, I did start trolling one mod, but that was only in retaliation for being thread banned and having my posts deleted.

Bun in general the folks who post there are very cool (with the exception of one or two bell-ends).

Quote from: tenbones on January 02, 2023, 10:30:44 AM
LOL what a bunch of losers.

So for Goblinoid Games they get to be the sole dispensers of what is "political" and their made-up Human Rights are non-negotiable? LOL

Note that freedom of religion is apparently NOT a human right to these people as you are not allowed to believe what nearly every traditional religion teaches about the nature of humanity and reality without being canceled by the whack jobs*.

* I was recently told by a friend I respect that we should stop calling them "woke" because they're not awake to anything... they're whack (as in "out of..."; insane, unable to process reality). I agree and shall henceforth be referring to them as the "Whack."

"So when I say trans men are men and trans women are women, or black lives matter"

But how is any of this relevant to an RPG game?

Now, if people want to address this in THEIR games that's fine and it's none of my business.

But if I don't want to 'discuss or ignore' certain elements in MY elf-game I somehow don't agree with human rights? Where's the logic in that?

Well, first of all, I say get fucked for being so rude and secondly, I say fucking prove it. I'll wait....

There's an old British sitcom, and the theme song has a line "catch the penny, but missing the pound." Seems like modern companies are chasing cents, while actively throwing away dollars.

"We're the most inclusive we've ever been!"*

*Inclusivity does not include Men, whites, heterosexuals, Republicans, gamers, TERF's, or anyone not signing this week's manifesto pledge.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on January 02, 2023, 08:17:04 AM

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AMI honestly feel like it's back in the 80s and 90s when the Right wing Christians would go absolutely nuts if you dared expressed ideas that went outside of their rhetoric.

The difference is that back then, the people screeching about RPGs were outsiders. Once you got into a group of gamers, all that disappeared. But now, the primary people pushing The Messsge are gamers themselves so there is no way to escape them

Which is why the only new players I allow in my game are people who have never played RPGs before. It is the only way to be sure.

It is more like how the woke work. Fakes from outside white knighting "for your own good!" and doing it to RPGs and everything else they infest like a spreading cancer.

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 02, 2023, 08:26:32 AM
They're still outsiders though. None of them are actual dyed-in-the-wool gamers, they're ideologues riding a fad. There's not a one of them that would have called themselves an RPG gamer when the intro to the hobby used to be a middle aged man with a dusty boxed set, and a strange funk.

What we're seeing is equivalent to if the church ladies and evangelical preachers had started playing D&D, so they could destroy it from within.

Some are also hatemongers stirring up trouble just to spread more suffering. Something Awful, 4chan and other groups feed of this like parasites.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 02, 2023, 11:00:07 AM
Note that freedom of religion is apparently NOT a human right to these people as you are not allowed to believe what nearly every traditional religion teaches about the nature of humanity and reality without being canceled by the whack jobs*.

  Now, now. Everyone is free to worship however they like ... so long as they offer the ceremonial pinch of incense to the current incarnations of Caesar, Mammon, Astoreth, and Moloch.

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM
This site and rpgpub are the only two sites where I don't have fear of being banned. But because of obvious asshole behavior, but because I dare say anything that goes against the established and rigid dogma that's allowed to be expressed.

I honestly feel like it's back in the 80s and 90s when the Right wing Christians would go absolutely nuts if you dared expressed ideas that went outside of their rhetoric.

Sites like rpg net will literally ban you and invent ways that you violated their "racism"policy. Same with enworld and many Reddit communities.

When the fuck did all this occur?

I don't know about rpg.net, because I never was posting on that site. It was already the case on the White Wolf fora around 2007/2008. And yes nowadays I am only on here and on rpgpub. I also posted on some Dutch sites, but the visiting numbers were so low on these sites that it doesn't really count. I mostly follow 3rik around on the net lol. He is also Dutch and lives not too far away from me, I think. Somewhere around Leiden, I guess.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 02, 2023, 10:56:00 AM

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM
and rpgpub

Actually, I'll have to disagree with you on the pub sadly. I was banned for basically going 'against the grain' and supporting TDM's Mythic Polynesian release. Now, I did start trolling one mod, but that was only in retaliation for being thread banned and having my posts deleted.

Bun in general the folks who post there are very cool (with the exception of one or two bell-ends).

I just joined, because people here said it was laidback. It didn't take me long to be strawmanned and brigaded. Not aggressively (more dismissive and obtuse), but my wrongthink was descended on quickly and uniformly, without a single dissenting voice. Not great.

The site seems fine as long as everyone pretends they're living in the 90's, so I'll just enjoy it for what it is, and not discuss anything more spicy than which game editions are superior.

Link: https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/d-d-is-it-the-gateway-game-for-the-rest-of-the-hobby.8544/page-8 (https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/d-d-is-it-the-gateway-game-for-the-rest-of-the-hobby.8544/page-8) (my post that set things off is post #293)

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 02, 2023, 11:09:31 AM
There's an old British sitcom, and the theme song has a line "catch the penny, but missing the pound."

Greetings :)

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 02, 2023, 03:31:14 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 02, 2023, 10:56:00 AM

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM
and rpgpub

Actually, I'll have to disagree with you on the pub sadly. I was banned for basically going 'against the grain' and supporting TDM's Mythic Polynesian release. Now, I did start trolling one mod, but that was only in retaliation for being thread banned and having my posts deleted.

Bun in general the folks who post there are very cool (with the exception of one or two bell-ends).

I just joined, because people here said it was laidback. It didn't take me long to be strawmanned and brigaded. Not aggressively (more dismissive and obtuse), but my wrongthink was descended on quickly and uniformly, without a single dissenting voice. Not great.

The site seems fine as long as everyone pretends they're living in the 90's, so I'll just enjoy it for what it is, and not discuss anything more spicy than which game editions are superior.

Link: https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/d-d-is-it-the-gateway-game-for-the-rest-of-the-hobby.8544/page-8 (https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/d-d-is-it-the-gateway-game-for-the-rest-of-the-hobby.8544/page-8) (my post that set things off is post #293)

Greetings!

Many of the members of the RPGPUB were banned from here. Others embraced self-imposed exile and went to the RPGPUB. More than a few of them are Left leaning, and many vehemently oppose RPG Pundit. *Shrugs*

The RPGPUB has its own bias and controls speech of the members there. "No politics! Everyone must be happy!" a kind of atmosphere that can seem...artificially happy and dull. Reminiscent of a retirement home stuck in the 1990's.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I actually liked posting there specifically to talk about TTRPGs.

I had a bad back-and-forth with Endless (the board owner) after my prognostications on the Marvel RPG made by Forebeck. And I simply stated I have very good reasons to believe why I thought it would fail. And naturally the discussion turned to me dancing around what I thought was obvious to everyone - Marvel Comics is not an RPG company, and why should we believe a company that has ruined its own IP (BIG WARNING: over politics) would do any less for a TTRPG? He kept trying to debate with me about Marvel Comics, and I kept explaining but I kept having to refer to their political hackery, and then he warned me to stop talking about politics.

So... I figured I'm not going to walk on eggshells there when I'm repeatedly responding to someone asking me questions about things he expressly forbids on his forum. It was annoying.

Otherwise I like most of the crew there. When you can talk about gaming. CRKrueger and Raleel, Tristram and some others, all good folks.

Edit: And I think Endless is fine, but the way it went down between us didn't leave a good feeling with me. But I felt the whole thing would lead to my eventual banishment at some point. So I just excused myself ahead of time.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on January 02, 2023, 09:56:00 AM
Goblinoid Games has posted a policy that seems to sum up the next phase: "Certain controversial issues are not 'political', but Fundamental Human Rights, and you cannot disagree with us without being a Bad Person:" (Source: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/troll-lord-games-in-no-politics-imbroglio.905957/post-24639623 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/troll-lord-games-in-no-politics-imbroglio.905957/post-24639623))

Quote
Goblinoid Games' Statement on Politics
I know what you're thinking, "Man, not another ham-fisted statement about politics by a game publisher." Please bear with me.
This is a big discussion with much more nuance than I can capture here. I also don't claim to fully grasp all of the nuance, we can all keep learning. But what I want to say is that there are too many issues dismissed as "politics" to shut down discussion and opinions as if there are two legitimate sides to all of these issues.
What I mean by that is, for example, something like whether we should tax gas at the pump or wrap it into vehicle registration. So in that sense, yes, Goblinoid Games (me) isn't interested in discussing that kind of politics at the game table (though let's face it, game table banter often does stray afield of the task at hand!).
But often what people write off as "merely" politics are actually human rights issues. In that regard, I think those considerations should be taken into account where appropriate.
What that looks like in practice is working to not perpetuate or reinforce lies, bigotry, homophobia etc. To not contribute to the public and systemic forces and beliefs that strive to grind classes of people below an authoritarian boot.
So when I say trans men are men and trans women are women, or black lives matter, I'm not making a political statement. I'm acknowledging that every person should have the freedom to be who they feel they truly are. Or to not be systematically degraded so that society views some people as lesser or inferior.
Because when we refuse to openly discuss those issues we turn a blind eye to the reinforcing behavior that erodes the dignity from people and makes them feel unsafe and rejected by society. Brushing these topics aside because you don't want to tackle them or be self reflective is the same as saying you're content to perpetuate ideas that seek to hurt people. Kill people even. To keep people afraid and uncertain of their places in the world.
Therefore I encourage discussion when these issues come to the foreground, and I hope if I make any missteps people will correct me and I can learn something. Above all I want everyone to know that you are safe here and that I have your back in every way that's in my power. You are valued no matter who you are. You are valued because you are who you are. Human diversity is a beautiful thing when we can embrace it. We should enjoy that richness and enjoy each other.
Thanks for your time.
Dan

So Dan Proctor is Chris Pramas / Jeff-Dee level of woke dbag?

No Dan, trans women are not women, and trans men are not men. Black lives matter is not a statement, or even a slogan, it is an ideological and political movement

who does Dan think he is bullshitting?

I motion that Goblinoid Games is moved to the red list somewhere below Green Ronan and Monkey House games

Note: Tim Snider, the author of Cryptworld (Golbinoid) is also a leftist dbag who engages in dogpiles on social media, so Dan isn't the only one in that organization

Quote from: SHARK on January 02, 2023, 03:57:18 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 02, 2023, 03:31:14 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 02, 2023, 10:56:00 AM

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM
and rpgpub

Actually, I'll have to disagree with you on the pub sadly. I was banned for basically going 'against the grain' and supporting TDM's Mythic Polynesian release. Now, I did start trolling one mod, but that was only in retaliation for being thread banned and having my posts deleted.

Bun in general the folks who post there are very cool (with the exception of one or two bell-ends).

I just joined, because people here said it was laidback. It didn't take me long to be strawmanned and brigaded. Not aggressively (more dismissive and obtuse), but my wrongthink was descended on quickly and uniformly, without a single dissenting voice. Not great.

The site seems fine as long as everyone pretends they're living in the 90's, so I'll just enjoy it for what it is, and not discuss anything more spicy than which game editions are superior.

Link: https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/d-d-is-it-the-gateway-game-for-the-rest-of-the-hobby.8544/page-8 (https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/d-d-is-it-the-gateway-game-for-the-rest-of-the-hobby.8544/page-8) (my post that set things off is post #293)

Greetings!

Many of the members of the RPGPUB were banned from here. Others embraced self-imposed exile and went to the RPGPUB. More than a few of them are Left leaning, and many vehemently oppose RPG Pundit. *Shrugs*

The RPGPUB has its own bias and controls speech of the members there. "No politics! Everyone must be happy!" a kind of atmosphere that can seem...artificially happy and dull. Reminiscent of a retirement home stuck in the 1990's.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

It felt like being in a room with 1990's Democrats that had somehow been cryogenically frozen until today, and when I posted they acted like crazy old grandpa had been at the gin again, and was ranting about the coloreds or something.

Like I said, not the aggressive excluding of rpg.net, but more a desperate need to keep their heads in the sand.

Quote from: Dracones on January 02, 2023, 09:45:10 AM

The one guy that was sympathetic towards TLG in that thread was permanently banned for sharing his viewpoint. The problem I found with RPGNet years ago was you pretty much had to walk on egg shells unless you expressed an opinion that was 100% in line with the moderators' politics. Most of the woke crowd seems to be like this, ban any dissenting opinions until it's a ridiculous echo chamber of thought.

Watching a free society/community dance into satanic panic/soviet union levels of speech suppression has been darkly fascinating to watch happen in real time.

It's been absolutely maddening to see it happen to various legacy communities over the past ten or so years. TBP, Something Awful (once a bastion of early internet creativity, free speech, chaos, and shitposting - now an infested shell) and Neogaf (which has since tossed the SJWs and generally recovered).

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 02, 2023, 03:31:14 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 02, 2023, 10:56:00 AM

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM
and rpgpub

Actually, I'll have to disagree with you on the pub sadly. I was banned for basically going 'against the grain' and supporting TDM's Mythic Polynesian release. Now, I did start trolling one mod, but that was only in retaliation for being thread banned and having my posts deleted.

Bun in general the folks who post there are very cool (with the exception of one or two bell-ends).

I just joined, because people here said it was laidback. It didn't take me long to be strawmanned and brigaded. Not aggressively (more dismissive and obtuse), but my wrongthink was descended on quickly and uniformly, without a single dissenting voice. Not great.

The site seems fine as long as everyone pretends they're living in the 90's, so I'll just enjoy it for what it is, and not discuss anything more spicy than which game editions are superior.

Link: https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/d-d-is-it-the-gateway-game-for-the-rest-of-the-hobby.8544/page-8 (https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/d-d-is-it-the-gateway-game-for-the-rest-of-the-hobby.8544/page-8) (my post that set things off is post #293)

Yeah... That's pretty much it. Most of the guys there are pretty cool (as I was saying). That said, they have a rather 'flexible' no-politics rule. That is to say, it's fine when certain mods/peeps want to get into it but if you disagree then you're a heretic, and then out come the pathetic ad hominem memes - not really a great way to tackle an argument.

And living amongst the board are some highly woke scold individuals that pipe up every now and then (when they think they can get away with it). But to be fair... they usually get a bit of a warning.

So it's fine if you want to chat about RPGs in general but some subjects are 'more equal' than others if you get my meaning. ;) I also don't trust a couple of the mods on there, tbh. I can't speak for all of them to be fair.

Quote from: SHARK on January 02, 2023, 03:57:18 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 02, 2023, 03:31:14 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 02, 2023, 10:56:00 AM

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM
and rpgpub

Actually, I'll have to disagree with you on the pub sadly. I was banned for basically going 'against the grain' and supporting TDM's Mythic Polynesian release. Now, I did start trolling one mod, but that was only in retaliation for being thread banned and having my posts deleted.

Bun in general the folks who post there are very cool (with the exception of one or two bell-ends).

I just joined, because people here said it was laidback. It didn't take me long to be strawmanned and brigaded. Not aggressively (more dismissive and obtuse), but my wrongthink was descended on quickly and uniformly, without a single dissenting voice. Not great.

The site seems fine as long as everyone pretends they're living in the 90's, so I'll just enjoy it for what it is, and not discuss anything more spicy than which game editions are superior.

Link: https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/d-d-is-it-the-gateway-game-for-the-rest-of-the-hobby.8544/page-8 (https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/d-d-is-it-the-gateway-game-for-the-rest-of-the-hobby.8544/page-8) (my post that set things off is post #293)

Greetings!

Many of the members of the RPGPUB were banned from here. Others embraced self-imposed exile and went to the RPGPUB. More than a few of them are Left leaning, and many vehemently oppose RPG Pundit. *Shrugs*

The RPGPUB has its own bias and controls speech of the members there. "No politics! Everyone must be happy!" a kind of atmosphere that can seem...artificially happy and dull. Reminiscent of a retirement home stuck in the 1990's.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Yeah, I totally agree with you, man... It does feel a bit 'weird'. Reminds me of the Stepford Wives or something. I don't mind their no-politics rule (which is highly selective btw).

I get it. But it's not for me. Originally I had hoped that the pub would be a place for RPGs firs,t obviously, and then you get into some interesting talking points about the hobby (the good and the bad). How can you solve issues if you can't talk about them?? I was always exceedingly polite on there too - until recently. ;)

Besides the usual few bell-ends that you get on every forum, I just detest one or two of the Mods' modus operandi. That is to say, some of my posts were 'selectively' snipped or deliberately quoted out of context (the usual predictable woke-scold tactic). But what irked me were some of my counterarguments, about the mythic Polynesia sourcebook, about it 'doing real harm' (lol) were also deleted. A practice that I find thoroughly dishonest. I was also thread-banned without a word of warning. Which led me to start trolling a particular mod with my signature (which led to my six-week ban).

Two of the dweeby mods started getting personal too. Now, I couldn't give a fuck about personal attacks, but if you're going to do to me, then you can bet your ass, I'll give it back. But I got penalized for it. Double standards eh?

At least the RPG.net mods, while being utter wankers, are at least 'honest' wankers. That is they will tell you exactly why you've been thread banned, etc. As opposed to saying nothing and hoping you won't raise a stink.

Interestingly enough though, I had loads of 'likes' re. my posts in the Mythic Polynesia thread. :) Basically, I had a lot of people agreeing with what I was saying but were obviously not wanting to get involved. I found that very telling indeed. :)

Quote from: tenbones on January 02, 2023, 04:19:30 PM
Tristram.

Sorry... I can't agree with you on that for reasons that I explained to Shark. So as far as I'm concerned Tristram can kiss my piss (which I told him on the Pub's forum).

I should say, before everyone thinks I'm just a complete misanthrope (which I am). I do like most of the folks over there, and I've enjoyed chatting with 'most' of them. But Shark hit the nail on the head it's an exceedingly sterile atmos.

Thank God I found this website. For a while there I was about to give up on RPGs due to all the real-world "issues and opinions" that kept affecting RPG companies, sites, and groups.
I just want to be chill and non-woke, and just enjoy myself playing the game. Don't need all the real-world baggage ruining the game for me. I've been trying to collect all the books and materials that I can from before everything was ruined by woke cancel culture. I've been focusing on switching from D&D5e to Pathfinder 1e. I also have Old School Essentials, Basic Fantasy RPG, and Tiny Dungeon. I have a few 5e books I might give away. Mostly I'm just getting my collection together so I can enjoy it in the peace and quiet of my (I hope soon to come) retirement.

Quote from: vargasmas on January 02, 2023, 07:55:43 PM
Thank God I found this website. For a while there I was about to give up on RPGs due to all the real-world "issues and opinions" that kept affecting RPG companies, sites, and groups.
I just want to be chill and non-woke, and just enjoy myself playing the game. Don't need all the real-world baggage ruining the game for me. I've been trying to collect all the books and materials that I can from before everything was ruined by woke cancel culture. I've been focusing on switching from D&D5e to Pathfinder 1e. I also have Old School Essentials, Basic Fantasy RPG, and Tiny Dungeon. I have a few 5e books I might give away. Mostly I'm just getting my collection together so I can enjoy it in the peace and quiet of my (I hope soon to come) retirement.

Greetings!

Welcome, Vargasmas!

I hope that you visit regularly here, and jump into the discussions!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM

I honestly feel like it's back in the 80s and 90s when the Right wing Christians would go absolutely nuts if you dared expressed ideas that went outside of their rhetoric.

I grew up in a right-wing Christian household in the 80s and 90s. I left that environment and *poof* they had no power over me whatsoever. This new thing is not like that at all. They want total control, to make sure you lose employment, have no access to financial services or speech platforms etc.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on January 02, 2023, 09:56:00 AM
Goblinoid Games has posted a policy that seems to sum up the next phase: "Certain controversial issues are not 'political', but Fundamental Human Rights, and you cannot disagree with us without being a Bad Person:" (Source: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/troll-lord-games-in-no-politics-imbroglio.905957/post-24639623 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/troll-lord-games-in-no-politics-imbroglio.905957/post-24639623))

Quote
Goblinoid Games' Statement on Politics
I know what you're thinking, "Man, not another ham-fisted statement about politics by a game publisher." Please bear with me.
This is a big discussion with much more nuance than I can capture here. I also don't claim to fully grasp all of the nuance, we can all keep learning. But what I want to say is that there are too many issues dismissed as "politics" to shut down discussion and opinions as if there are two legitimate sides to all of these issues.
What I mean by that is, for example, something like whether we should tax gas at the pump or wrap it into vehicle registration. So in that sense, yes, Goblinoid Games (me) isn't interested in discussing that kind of politics at the game table (though let's face it, game table banter often does stray afield of the task at hand!).
But often what people write off as "merely" politics are actually human rights issues. In that regard, I think those considerations should be taken into account where appropriate.
What that looks like in practice is working to not perpetuate or reinforce lies, bigotry, homophobia etc. To not contribute to the public and systemic forces and beliefs that strive to grind classes of people below an authoritarian boot.
So when I say trans men are men and trans women are women, or black lives matter, I'm not making a political statement. I'm acknowledging that every person should have the freedom to be who they feel they truly are. Or to not be systematically degraded so that society views some people as lesser or inferior.
Because when we refuse to openly discuss those issues we turn a blind eye to the reinforcing behavior that erodes the dignity from people and makes them feel unsafe and rejected by society. Brushing these topics aside because you don't want to tackle them or be self reflective is the same as saying you're content to perpetuate ideas that seek to hurt people. Kill people even. To keep people afraid and uncertain of their places in the world.
Therefore I encourage discussion when these issues come to the foreground, and I hope if I make any missteps people will correct me and I can learn something. Above all I want everyone to know that you are safe here and that I have your back in every way that's in my power. You are valued no matter who you are. You are valued because you are who you are. Human diversity is a beautiful thing when we can embrace it. We should enjoy that richness and enjoy each other.
Thanks for your time.
Dan

If trans men are men, and trans women are women, then they are not trans and GG dude is trying to erase their existence.
Sounds like transphobia to me.

And I do not even jest. This is the logical conclusion of that statement.

While I definitely spend more time on the Pub than anywhere else these days, I've always argued that "no politics" is really an absurd rule.  I certainly understand the inclination, heck my politics generally manage to make everyone mad.  :D

I do think we've lost some good posters over it.  Still, the stated objective is to avoid the culture war as much as possible and be an oasis of actual game discussion.  I'm afraid it's often memes over content but at least you can make funny comments without getting screamed at for derailing discussion.

I did post the politics rules for Galaxies In Shadow on the design forum but I didn't entitle it "Flagrant Rules Violation" so I always feel a bit like I wimped out there :D  At the time it would have been pretty inflamatory.

Honestly the pub tradition of letting conversations wander where the will can get a bit annoying, but then so can the rigid enforcement of thread direction.

The numbers seem to be growing but it generally feels like the same dozen posters most of the time and I'm not convinced its a great place to market anything.  Not that I'm really marketing anything, but one day maybe, I guess, I don't know, I kindof like the liberty that comes with not having any fans I have to please.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 02, 2023, 06:56:49 PM

Quote from: tenbones on January 02, 2023, 04:19:30 PM
Tristram.

Sorry... I can't agree with you on that for reasons that I explained to Shark. So as far as I'm concerned Tristram can kiss my piss (which I told him on the Pub's forum).

I should say, before everyone thinks I'm just a complete misanthrope (which I am). I do like most of the folks over there, and I've enjoyed chatting with 'most' of them. But Shark hit the nail on the head it's an exceedingly sterile atmos.

Fair play. I've seen Tristram do that dance. I cut him some slack because I used to talk with him in private a lot, and I don't want to spill any tea since I know a lot of posters here cross pollinate... lets just say the Mods there do a lot of compromising among themselves. Frustrations can run high on political topics - the problem as we both mentioned, is that the mods themselves get political (in my case, if you ask me a question "Why is Marvel comics doing poorly these days vs. Jim Shooter's era?" the answer is literally political - then you tell me stop talking about politics while prodding me on the point...) Yeah that's not a way to engage me in an honest discussion.

I know behind the scenes they do a lot of discussion, which is normal and healthy for a forum full of mods. The issue is the leadership has to be consistent for it to work. Here, Pundit sets a pretty strong standard. We don't have to like Pundit, but we know where Pundit and the mods stand on 98% of things. I don't like having a discussion where I'm walking a minefield because of some arbitrary impulse from a mod.

Again, I like the guys there, except for the handful of bad actors, and I even like talking about gaming more than politics (not that I mind talking about politics - but I do that in-depth elsewhere), but I don't like having to monitor my speech more than I usually do for the sake of others oversensitivity.

Quote from: tenbones on January 03, 2023, 10:28:02 AM"Why is Marvel comics doing poorly these days vs. Jim Shooter's era?"

The answer is that Jim Shooter is the fucking GOAT, and the Marvel offices went from 'hand in your work whenever you can be bothered' to running like a Swiss watch. Which is why the staff hated him.

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 03, 2023, 10:35:15 AM

Quote from: tenbones on January 03, 2023, 10:28:02 AM"Why is Marvel comics doing poorly these days vs. Jim Shooter's era?"

The answer is that Jim Shooter is the fucking GOAT, and the Marvel offices went from 'hand in your work whenever you can be bothered' to running like a Swiss watch. Which is why the staff hated him.

Yup. Shooter might be as important as Stan Lee in the big picture of Marvel. I would say post-Stan Lee there is no one close. He established standards that simply didn't exist prior or after.

This message got me Perma banned from rpg.net in their TLG slander thread:

Quotehis is a good take by Troll Lord's. Game companies should just make games and stay out of politics. This shouldn't be a platform for activism, it's about entertainment and escapism.

I don't want to turn on CSPAN and listen to politicians wax on about min maxing character builds or discussing lore changes from campaign setting editions. They should stick to politics.

Pretty simple stuff that used to be the norm before social media ruined everything.

Quote from: TheShadow on January 02, 2023, 11:35:35 PM

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM

I honestly feel like it's back in the 80s and 90s when the Right wing Christians would go absolutely nuts if you dared expressed ideas that went outside of their rhetoric.

I grew up in a right-wing Christian household in the 80s and 90s. I left that environment and *poof* they had no power over me whatsoever. This new thing is not like that at all. They want total control, to make sure you lose employment, have no access to financial services or speech platforms etc.

At the risk of being mildly political, the Woke Left is implementing one of the most famous quotes by the forebearer they reject, "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State," to a degree, the Christian Fundamentalists have not even attempted in centuries (and arguably never, but that requires debating where modern Christian fundies come from, which would be theology).

Quote from: tenbones on January 03, 2023, 11:16:24 AM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 03, 2023, 10:35:15 AM

Quote from: tenbones on January 03, 2023, 10:28:02 AM"Why is Marvel comics doing poorly these days vs. Jim Shooter's era?"

The answer is that Jim Shooter is the fucking GOAT, and the Marvel offices went from 'hand in your work whenever you can be bothered' to running like a Swiss watch. Which is why the staff hated him.

Yup. Shooter might be as important as Stan Lee in the big picture of Marvel. I would say post-Stan Lee there is no one close. He established standards that simply didn't exist prior or after.

Shooter seems to have had three basic rules:

1. Respect continuity as that keeps fans invested.
2. Create the best product you can.
3. Ship your books on time.

That something so simple is beyond both Marvel and DC these days speaks a lot about modern management and creators, none of it good.

Quote from: Monero on January 03, 2023, 11:46:30 AM
This message got me Perma banned from rpg.net in their TLG slander thread:

You basically told them you wanted to play games instead of listening to them bitch about inconsequential nonsense. Shame on you!

Quote from: tenbones on January 03, 2023, 10:28:02 AM
Fair play. I've seen Tristram do that dance. I cut him some slack because I used to talk with him in private a lot, and I don't want to spill any tea since I know a lot of posters here cross pollinate...

Yeah, I get that mate, and that's fair.

Generally I don't have a problem with mods doing their job as long as it's done on a fair and level playing field. I also expect mods to be relitively honest, but I detest hypocrisy.

So when they want to get personal, and not allow me the right to do the same all while conveniently 'hiding' when I point that out publically followed by 'disappearing' some of my legitimate counter-arguments (like asking for proof of certain claims he was making) then you know you're dealing with a snake.

To be fair, I like the pub in general and I've no problem with the mods, for the most part. But it feels like you can't really have a good chat there so the atmosphere is pretty sterile as Shark said.  :( So I won't really miss posting there even though my ban has lifted.

What's really needed, IMO, is a place that's partway between here and the pub. Somewhere you can have a good conversation about the minutia of RPGs, the good and the bad without it devolving into constant mud-slinging. Now to be fair, I have engaged in a lot of that here myself. So I am part of the problem. When people get snippy with me they are getting it back (and it seems to escalate from there).

But on other forums, I'm pretty polite... That is until someone gets nasty. I respond far better to a carrot than I do a sick.

Quote from: Brad on January 02, 2023, 10:14:45 AM

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on January 02, 2023, 09:56:00 AM
Goblinoid Games has posted a policy that seems to sum up the next phase: "Certain controversial issues are not 'political', but Fundamental Human Rights, and you cannot disagree with us without being a Bad Person:" (Source: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/troll-lord-games-in-no-politics-imbroglio.905957/post-24639623 (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/troll-lord-games-in-no-politics-imbroglio.905957/post-24639623))

Pathetic.

Dan just made sure all my LL books go in the bin and any future GG purchases are going somewhere else. Good job for probably my favourite OSR game for the longest time.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 03, 2023, 12:10:31 PMI respond far better to a carrot than I do a sick.

What if the sick has a bit of carrot in it?

Quote from: grimshwiz on January 03, 2023, 01:00:03 PMDan just made sure all my LL books go in the bin and any future GG purchases are going somewhere else. Good job for probably my favourite OSR game for the longest time.

While I FULLY support not giving them any more money, I've never understood the idea of trashing or giving away existing books in one's collection. I guess you now have a visceral reaction to everything they touched, even pre-woke?

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 03, 2023, 01:13:27 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 03, 2023, 12:10:31 PMI respond far better to a carrot than I do a sick.

What if the sick has a bit of carrot in it?

Quote from: grimshwiz on January 03, 2023, 01:00:03 PMDan just made sure all my LL books go in the bin and any future GG purchases are going somewhere else. Good job for probably my favourite OSR game for the longest time.

While I FULLY support not giving them any more money, I've never understood the idea of trashing or giving away existing books in one's collection. I guess you now have a visceral reaction to everything they touched, even pre-woke?

No, I haven't played it in years, been using copies of B/X picked up over time to replace it. If I had a place to donate, I would but everyone around here only plays 5e.

Quote from: Monero on January 03, 2023, 11:46:30 AM
This message got me Perma banned from rpg.net in their TLG slander thread:

Quotehis is a good take by Troll Lord's. Game companies should just make games and stay out of politics. This shouldn't be a platform for activism, it's about entertainment and escapism.

I don't want to turn on CSPAN and listen to politicians wax on about min maxing character builds or discussing lore changes from campaign setting editions. They should stick to politics.

Pretty simple stuff that used to be the norm before social media ruined everything.

Clearly, you're a monster.

Welcome to Monster Island.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 03, 2023, 12:10:31 PM

Quote from: tenbones on January 03, 2023, 10:28:02 AM
Fair play. I've seen Tristram do that dance. I cut him some slack because I used to talk with him in private a lot, and I don't want to spill any tea since I know a lot of posters here cross pollinate...

Yeah, I get that mate, and that's fair.

Generally I don't have a problem with mods doing their job as long as it's done on a fair and level playing field. I also expect mods to be relitively honest, but I detest hypocrisy.

So when they want to get personal, and not allow me the right to do the same all while conveniently 'hiding' when I point that out publically followed by 'disappearing' some of my legitimate counter-arguments (like asking for proof of certain claims he was making) then you know you're dealing with a snake.

To be fair, I like the pub in general and I've no problem with the mods, for the most part. But it feels like you can't really have a good chat there so the atmosphere is pretty sterile as Shark said.  :( So I won't really miss posting there even though my ban has lifted.

What's really needed, IMO, is a place that's partway between here and the pub. Somewhere you can have a good conversation about the minutia of RPGs, the good and the bad without it devolving into constant mud-slinging. Now to be fair, I have engaged in a lot of that here myself. So I am part of the problem. When people get snippy with me they are getting it back (and it seems to escalate from there).

But on other forums, I'm pretty polite... That is until someone gets nasty. I respond far better to a carrot than I do a sick.

Greetings!

Rob, have you ever been in a retirement home? It definitely has the sterile atmosphere. The unpleasant smell of a mixture of old people, medicine, and cleaning chemicals. Meanwhile, everyone at such a place walks around acting like everything is normal--because they are used to it, and have become accustomed to such an environment. That imagery fits the Pub so well. ;D

As I am generally quite polite, courteous, and friendly, I very much like positive environments. However, I'm also honest, and prefer speaking my mind, and just embracing a free-flowing conversation, more like people do at a bar or pub. Freedom of speech is important, and while two very different things can be true at the same time--on one hand, seemingly including politics in everything can itself seem boring--on the other hand, bootstomping and insisting on "No Politics!" actually arrests and controls speech and ideas--which then become boring, because there are so many illustrations, examples, and knowledge that can't therefore be shared. Politics, in many ways, *is* in everything. Political ideology, policies, consequences, flows into not merely politics,but education, grocery shopping, medicine, sports, entertainment, dating, everything.

You see extremes of control in places like the BigPurple, but also in EN World. I like places that have maximum freedom--like here.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

That's true. But let's be clear - we understand what they're *trying* to do. The problem is our hobby is rife with it. The business decisions of even entering in the arena of publishing TTRPG's *demands* it, if your intent is to make money while doing so. I find their attempts at keeping things non-political increasingly silly. Whose feelings are we protecting at this point? The lines keep getting redefined by the left based on politics... See: Race Essentialism in D&D. See: Evil vs. Good, a White Supremacist Paradigm. etc. Normal people and anyone right of that point are expected to quietly not talk about it.

So let's call the spade a spade and get on with things. Pretending otherwise is not only foolish - it's ceding our hobby to the worst kinds of people. The last thing that we need is to start knifing one another over protecting the feelings of the very people ruining the hobby. The problem I have is pretending a problem isn't political when it damn well is, and obfuscating the conversation under some bogus pretense of "Forum rules".

In a slightly better world, sure we could and should be talking about cool things in gaming, debating the needs of Sacred Cows, Nerdzerking over editions... but we can't ignore the fact that politics are now dictating a lot of choices in our gaming consumption and habits. That is a FACT. And pretending that politics aren't a thing - is precisely what the activists want. And yes it bores me to tears to talk about WotC and basic-bitch arguments all the time... but they made it this way, they left their used condoms and needles on our Gaming Beach. Not us. And I sure as fuck ain't going to pretend it's not there, while I have some rainbow-haired GRIDS-infested moron's needle, hanging out of my big toe. This is my die-rolling Toe!

Quote from: tenbones on January 03, 2023, 04:05:02 PMSo let's call the spade a spade

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/tee hee

The Pub reminds me of how humanities departments collapsed.  They are run by someone left of center, with a smattering of classical liberal attitudes but no particularly thoughtful philosophy, who when confronted with conflict between someone to their left and someone to their right will always declare the problem to be primarily the person to their right.  Unless the one to the left is overplays their hand and/or is too blatant, in which case they will declare both sides equally wrong.  That type is also usually deluded about just how left of center they themselves are, with some even clinging to the idea that they are "centrist".  There's usually one or two that understands the Overton Window and are deliberately using it to get what they want, while the rest will rigorously maintain a general clueless ignorance of it, even if they have to ban someone to do so.

A decade from now when the whole thing plays out to its obvious conclusions (assuming it is even around that long), the last one of the breed will bemoan how it came to their own banning, depart in sorrow, and immediately start trying to implement the same policies that led to this sorry state in their new home.   If they were capable of learning from this mistake from life experiences, they wouldn't be this way in the first place.  What was it that Buckley said?  "A conservative is a liberal that has been mugged," or something to that effect.  "Centrist" mods on gaming sights are liberals who get mugged repeatedly, and repeatedly blame everyone but the mugger.

So no, it's not absolutely insane how the TTRPG communities have become.  It's instead mind boggling, and a testament to the better aspects of human nature, that it takes so long to descend into the inevitable conclusion. 

Nailed it.

Quote from: grimshwiz on January 03, 2023, 01:36:01 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 03, 2023, 01:13:27 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 03, 2023, 12:10:31 PMI respond far better to a carrot than I do a sick.

What if the sick has a bit of carrot in it?

Quote from: grimshwiz on January 03, 2023, 01:00:03 PMDan just made sure all my LL books go in the bin and any future GG purchases are going somewhere else. Good job for probably my favourite OSR game for the longest time.

While I FULLY support not giving them any more money, I've never understood the idea of trashing or giving away existing books in one's collection. I guess you now have a visceral reaction to everything they touched, even pre-woke?

No, I haven't played it in years, been using copies of B/X picked up over time to replace it. If I had a place to donate, I would but everyone around here only plays 5e.

Do you have those little free library boxes in your town?  I've dropped off used RPG stuff in those and it's always gone within a day.

I've had said my piece about the RPGPub's "no politics rule" before (and its 'like' system too) from the very beginning and foretold where that road ends. Consensus politeness over morality politeness never lets the bad blood out and lets the 'unspeakable' be used as a weapon and shield. It is latent corruption without recourse; vitriol released with possible forgiveness *IS* the recourse (but no one wants to learn that lesson).

That's why across many fora I am exceedingly lenient to vitriol as long as contrition and return to decorum is possible -- and in turn suspicious of the game of taboos and kudos. The former allows humans to be flawed and messy. Life is messy, power moreso, and its distribution is literally the definition of politics. The main restraint I prefer is don't leave your home a cesspit, sorta "don't let the sun set on your anger," return to cordiality ASAP, essentially Confucian emphasis on politeness and remembering our shared humanity. The latter game of taboos & kudos becomes a means to power, which *IS* politics, and all games of power end in tears and resets (or in these cases splits into new fora).

Like most of you I have longevity of acquaintence with many members there and here, and I could say the quality of discussion is lively in both. That said, I've had better, deeper, more fruitful discussions here than there due to the inherent structural difference I already stated and seems mutually observed by others here. I feel it at times like Star Wars Mos Eisley versus a genteel small town pub where everyone knows which church you attend; the dangerous rawness versus the stuffy passive aggression. Both have their draws, but don't let the safety of the latter fool you as the pushes and shoves are still there. You cannot polite the human out of us, you can only ask to return there after a human moment, and I find the rawness more honest and comfortable.

It fills a need and I genuinely care for many who post there. And they do try to moderate 'flexibly'... But it also played out how I expected, too. Such is life.  8) We can walk and chew gum, we can travel many circles.

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 03, 2023, 01:13:27 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 03, 2023, 12:10:31 PMI respond far better to a carrot than I do a sick.

What if the sick has a bit of carrot in it?

Or a stick made of a carrot! Yum.

I keep meaning to start my own forum so I can ban myself whenever I get out of line.

Quote from: shoplifter on January 02, 2023, 05:54:47 PMSomething Awful

Jesus wept SA is a pack of viscous hatemongers and has been for several years now.

Quote from: tenbones on January 03, 2023, 01:53:38 PM

Quote from: Monero on January 03, 2023, 11:46:30 AM
This message got me Perma banned from rpg.net in their TLG slander thread:

Quotehis is a good take by Troll Lord's. Game companies should just make games and stay out of politics. This shouldn't be a platform for activism, it's about entertainment and escapism.

I don't want to turn on CSPAN and listen to politicians wax on about min maxing character builds or discussing lore changes from campaign setting editions. They should stick to politics.

Pretty simple stuff that used to be the norm before social media ruined everything.

Clearly, you're a monster.

Welcome to Monster Island.

I like it. :)

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM
When the fuck did all this occur?

To paraphrase Don McLean, "When we were looking down."

I don't know, anyone who was on rpg.net twenty years ago should have seen it coming.  I think the ridiculously hard thing is that at some point big corporations embraced the idea that social media is a powerful tool and bought into the idea of influencers having far reaching impact and in embracing that idea they empowered the loudmouths and the shrieking lunatics.  I guess that's what we didn't see coming is the shift from the obnoxious and shrill Christian right to the obnoxious and shrill Communist Left.

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM
This site and rpgpub are the only two sites where I don't have fear of being banned. But because of obvious asshole behavior, but because I dare say anything that goes against the established and rigid dogma that's allowed to be expressed.

I honestly feel like it's back in the 80s and 90s when the Right wing Christians would go absolutely nuts if you dared expressed ideas that went outside of their rhetoric.

Sites like rpg net will literally ban you and invent ways that you violated their "racism"policy. Same with enworld and many Reddit communities.

When the fuck did all this occur?

One of my first posts here asked the same question: https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/history-of-tbp/

Quote
So - recently banned from RPG.NET or TBP and discovered this is a right of passage.

It got me thinking, how did the site become so over the top extreme left wing over time?

Is it the forum admins themselves, or skotos, or did it just become self reinforcing and more extreme over time?

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 02, 2023, 03:31:14 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 02, 2023, 10:56:00 AM

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM
and rpgpub

Actually, I'll have to disagree with you on the pub sadly. I was banned for basically going 'against the grain' and supporting TDM's Mythic Polynesian release. Now, I did start trolling one mod, but that was only in retaliation for being thread banned and having my posts deleted.

Bun in general the folks who post there are very cool (with the exception of one or two bell-ends).

I just joined, because people here said it was laidback. It didn't take me long to be strawmanned and brigaded. Not aggressively (more dismissive and obtuse), but my wrongthink was descended on quickly and uniformly, without a single dissenting voice. Not great.

The site seems fine as long as everyone pretends they're living in the 90's, so I'll just enjoy it for what it is, and not discuss anything more spicy than which game editions are superior.

Link: https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/d-d-is-it-the-gateway-game-for-the-rest-of-the-hobby.8544/page-8 (https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/d-d-is-it-the-gateway-game-for-the-rest-of-the-hobby.8544/page-8) (my post that set things off is post #293)

Soo... I read that thread, and yes, can see there were some people with differences of opinions... But saying you "got dogpiled" I'm honestly kind of baffled that you feel that way. There was some mild disagreement with you, yes, but then people moved on. No bans, no screeching or anything that you see over on TBP. I'd say grow thicker skin, frankly.

Quote from: Iron_Rain on January 05, 2023, 05:35:19 PM

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM
This site and rpgpub are the only two sites where I don't have fear of being banned. But because of obvious asshole behavior, but because I dare say anything that goes against the established and rigid dogma that's allowed to be expressed.

I honestly feel like it's back in the 80s and 90s when the Right wing Christians would go absolutely nuts if you dared expressed ideas that went outside of their rhetoric.

Sites like rpg net will literally ban you and invent ways that you violated their "racism"policy. Same with enworld and many Reddit communities.

When the fuck did all this occur?

One of my first posts here asked the same question: https://www.therpgsite.com/the-rpgpundit-s-own-forum/history-of-tbp/

Quote
So - recently banned from RPG.NET or TBP and discovered this is a right of passage.

It got me thinking, how did the site become so over the top extreme left wing over time?

Is it the forum admins themselves, or skotos, or did it just become self reinforcing and more extreme over time?

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 02, 2023, 03:31:14 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 02, 2023, 10:56:00 AM

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM
and rpgpub

Actually, I'll have to disagree with you on the pub sadly. I was banned for basically going 'against the grain' and supporting TDM's Mythic Polynesian release. Now, I did start trolling one mod, but that was only in retaliation for being thread banned and having my posts deleted.

Bun in general the folks who post there are very cool (with the exception of one or two bell-ends).

I just joined, because people here said it was laidback. It didn't take me long to be strawmanned and brigaded. Not aggressively (more dismissive and obtuse), but my wrongthink was descended on quickly and uniformly, without a single dissenting voice. Not great.

The site seems fine as long as everyone pretends they're living in the 90's, so I'll just enjoy it for what it is, and not discuss anything more spicy than which game editions are superior.

Link: https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/d-d-is-it-the-gateway-game-for-the-rest-of-the-hobby.8544/page-8 (https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/d-d-is-it-the-gateway-game-for-the-rest-of-the-hobby.8544/page-8) (my post that set things off is post #293)

Soo... I read that thread, and yes, can see there were some people with differences of opinions... But saying you "got dogpiled" I'm honestly kind of baffled that you feel that way. There was some mild disagreement with you, yes, but then people moved on. No bans, no screeching or anything that you see over on TBP. I'd say grow thicker skin, frankly.

Thank you for the epidermis examination, Doctor.

It's a nice site, but everyone there wants to pretend we're living in Leave It To Beaver. The hobby is under assault, and they are more worried about someone pointing it out, than the are by the assault.

As I said, swift and uniform response, with zero dissent, mocking but polite. Much like you thin skin jab.

I don't believe anything I said was so crazy that not a single member of a large board would agree, so that means dissenters are either already gone, or keep quiet.

FYI, my skin's so thin I've been posting ever since, no melt down, no hissy fit, plenty of likes. Nice site, nice people, just in utter denial.

The hobby is under assault, but I think at the moment Hasbro corporate is the slightly bigger threat to it than loudmouths on social media.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 05, 2023, 06:57:37 PM
The hobby is under assault, but I think at the moment Hasbro corporate is the slightly bigger threat to it than loudmouths on social media.

I have the exact opposite take.

Hasbro corporate is currently in the process of unwittingly saving the RPG hobby by taking steps to implode 'official' D&D!

What they are currently doing with the 1.1 OGL isn't quite enough, but it is a step in the right direction.

They have my unswerving support in the course that they are taking!

@Grognard GM yes, on that point I agree with you. Much like in real life if you point out too much truth people don't want to hear it.

They are bad. We are good.   ;)

(But also due to demographic and ideological shifts the folks who constitute "we" may be in an ever shrinking minority opposition.)

Quote from: PulpHerb on January 03, 2023, 12:02:22 PM

Quote from: TheShadow on January 02, 2023, 11:35:35 PM
I grew up in a right-wing Christian household in the 80s and 90s. I left that environment and *poof* they had no power over me whatsoever. This new thing is not like that at all. They want total control, to make sure you lose employment, have no access to financial services or speech platforms etc.

At the risk of being mildly political, the Woke Left is implementing one of the most famous quotes by the forebearer they reject, "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State," to a degree, the Christian Fundamentalists have not even attempted in centuries (and arguably never, but that requires debating where modern Christian fundies come from, which would be theology).

As long as they are The State of course. Authoritarians gonna authoritarian after all. But the minute they aren't they'll flip the script once again.

The internet of the 90's and early 2000's was awesome. Open, free, like the wild west. But as the libtards continued their slow steady march towards full communism they were ok with the internet being unrestricted until Trump was elected, the first time in their lifetime a US president didn't aid them in their Marxist goals, this completely freaked them out and they've been doing everything in the power to lockdown dissident voices anywhere and everywhere. You are not allowed an opinion that is to the right of Chairman Mao.

We are seeing the internet being closed and locked down all around us. It is horrifying to watch this happen in real time. I used to wonder how an ideology as evil as Communism was able to take over Russia, China, and other countries. Now I wonder no longer.

Having lived a fair amount in China, what happens here is far worse because there's the pretense of openness and balance when in reality the Left has much more far-reaching and insidious control over media and society.  In China, pretty much everyone is skeptical of the CCP and its aims and finds ways to game the system and get by.  Or they simply join the party, which actually isn't that easy, and enjoy the fruits.  But in discussion boards and various public settings you'll find a range of opinions and discourse, unlike here where the dominant elitist Latte Left seems Hell-bent on controlling every narrative with their hypocritical take of the month and cancelling any who dissent.  As we've seen, even our games are being infested, often by those who don't actually play them.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on January 30, 2023, 11:36:18 AM

Quote from: PulpHerb on January 03, 2023, 12:02:22 PM

Quote from: TheShadow on January 02, 2023, 11:35:35 PM
I grew up in a right-wing Christian household in the 80s and 90s. I left that environment and *poof* they had no power over me whatsoever. This new thing is not like that at all. They want total control, to make sure you lose employment, have no access to financial services or speech platforms etc.

At the risk of being mildly political, the Woke Left is implementing one of the most famous quotes by the forebearer they reject, "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State," to a degree, the Christian Fundamentalists have not even attempted in centuries (and arguably never, but that requires debating where modern Christian fundies come from, which would be theology).

As long as they are The State of course. Authoritarians gonna authoritarian after all. But the minute they aren't they'll flip the script once again.

"When I am Weaker Than You, I ask you for Freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am Stronger than you, I take away your Freedom Because that is according to my principles."

It's their M.O. They come asking to be included and the moment they have the power they want to exclude us from what WE created/kept alive for decades.

Quote from: Opaopajr on January 01, 2023, 11:44:02 AMWe typically don't want cross forum drama,

Bah! I want MAXIMUM cross forum drama!

In clown world, always go for the LOLz!

Quote from: thornad on January 30, 2023, 02:04:05 PMThe internet of the 90's and early 2000's was awesome. Open, free, like the wild west.

It was slooooooooooooooooooooooow but glorious!

Quote from: thornad on January 30, 2023, 02:04:05 PMI used to wonder how an ideology as evil as Communism was able to take over Russia, China, and other countries. Now I wonder no longer.

Google Yuri Bezmenov if you want to understand more of how this has happened here.

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM
I honestly feel like it's back in the 80s and 90s when the Right wing Christians would go absolutely nuts if you dared expressed ideas that went outside of their rhetoric.

Well, to be fair to those Christians. Look at where we are now. They pretty much saw it coming.

Quote from: thornad on January 31, 2023, 01:54:52 PM

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM
I honestly feel like it's back in the 80s and 90s when the Right wing Christians would go absolutely nuts if you dared expressed ideas that went outside of their rhetoric.

Well, to be fair to those Christians. Look at where we are now. They pretty much saw it coming.

Sure, like a stopped clock sees the correct time coming twice a day. When you say everything is wicked, and will lead to depravity, you're gonna come up correct sometimes.

I showed up late to that other site (rpg.net) after reading Applecline's History of RPG books.  I'm not a huge forum poster, but the vibe from the site felt off.  What caused me to just wander away was the anti-Trump (not anti-politics) site wide policy.  I haven't been back and wouldn't recommend the site to anyone who's interested in TTRPG info.  By now it's probably just an echo chamber of celebrating how much publishers are getting pushed around by the mob.

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2023, 01:59:16 PM

Sure, like a stopped clock sees the correct time coming twice a day. When you say everything is wicked, and will lead to depravity, you're gonna come up correct sometimes.

Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?

Quote from: weirdguy564 on January 01, 2023, 12:48:49 PM

I never looked back.  Their site starts with 5 causes as pop ups, including Black Lives Mater, a horrible charity that keeps all the money for themselves.

Not a charity, rather a grift...

Quote from: Thor's Nads on February 01, 2023, 03:58:19 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2023, 01:59:16 PM

Sure, like a stopped clock sees the correct time coming twice a day. When you say everything is wicked, and will lead to depravity, you're gonna come up correct sometimes.

Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?

You know, just because you can be an asshole here, it doesn't mean you have to.

If milquetoast comments like the Christian bedwetters of the 80's and 90's calling everything evil and wanting it banned, are enough to trigger you, you must be fun at parties.

I'm not going to pretend the censorship and othering of the old school Christian Right didn't happen, just because the dipshit evangelicals of the Church Of Woke are currently doing the same, and (sadly) more effectively.

Yes the pearl-clutchers were right about a lot of slippery slopes...and wrong about a lot of slippery slopes. Because to people with permanently-clenched ass cheeks, the whole world is a slip-and-slide park of danger.

I want censorious assholes at both ends of the horseshoe to leave me the fuck alone to live my life.

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 04, 2023, 05:40:44 PM

You know, just because you can be an asshole here, it doesn't mean you have to.

Ditto. Pot, kettle, black.

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 04, 2023, 05:40:44 PM
If milquetoast comments like the Christian bedwetters of the 80's and 90's calling everything evil and wanting it banned, are enough to trigger you, you must be fun at parties.

I am quite fun. But I still call out BS when I see it. You might want to get a colonoscopy for all that butthurt.

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 04, 2023, 05:40:44 PM

Quote from: Thor's Nads on February 01, 2023, 03:58:19 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2023, 01:59:16 PM

Sure, like a stopped clock sees the correct time coming twice a day. When you say everything is wicked, and will lead to depravity, you're gonna come up correct sometimes.

Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?

You know, just because you can be an asshole here, it doesn't mean you have to.

Then proceeds to ignore his own advice.

Quote from: Thor's Nads on February 04, 2023, 11:40:04 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 04, 2023, 05:40:44 PM

You know, just because you can be an asshole here, it doesn't mean you have to.

Ditto. Pot, kettle, black.

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 04, 2023, 05:40:44 PM
If milquetoast comments like the Christian bedwetters of the 80's and 90's calling everything evil and wanting it banned, are enough to trigger you, you must be fun at parties.

I am quite fun. But I still call out BS when I see it. You might want to get a colonoscopy for all that butthurt.

I specifically called out the demonstrable bad actions of a particularly egregious wing of the Christian faith in the past, and you took it personally and called me retarded. Let's not pretend I knocked on your door and took a dump.

You have a massive raw nerve, and I brushed against it. I'm sure you've rationalized your overreaction in your mind, but picture this. I never said anything about you, or about mainstream Christians, and you went straight to personal insults.

I have zero beef with you, but I also call out BS.

Quote from: Cathode Ray on February 04, 2023, 11:40:28 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 04, 2023, 05:40:44 PM

Quote from: Thor's Nads on February 01, 2023, 03:58:19 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 31, 2023, 01:59:16 PM

Sure, like a stopped clock sees the correct time coming twice a day. When you say everything is wicked, and will lead to depravity, you're gonna come up correct sometimes.

Did your parents have any children that weren't mentally challenged?

You know, just because you can be an asshole here, it doesn't mean you have to.

Then proceeds to ignore his own advice.

So no problem with him insulting me for no reason, but you turned up to cluck your tongue at me for responding. Seems fair.

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 05, 2023, 12:21:00 AM
I specifically called out the demonstrable bad actions of a particularly egregious wing of the Christian faith in the past, and you took it personally and called me retarded. Let's not pretend I knocked on your door and took a dump.

You have a massive raw nerve, and I brushed against it. I'm sure you've rationalized your overreaction in your mind, but picture this. I never said anything about you, or about mainstream Christians, and you went straight to personal insults.

I have zero beef with you, but I also call out BS.

I've become quite spicy about anti-Christian rhetoric. I hear so much of it and it keeps getting worse and more intense, that I'm fairly sick of it.

Christians aren't the problem in modern society, and even in the 80's and 90's they weren't any near as bad as this current crop of Glitter Trolls, coupled with the power of rampant Wokism, and domination by techbros who are overwhelmingly Marxist in their thinking.

Times are looking pretty dark for anyone who isn't a blue-haired weirdo who thinks child mutilation is gender-affirming care.

Quote from: Thor's Nads on February 05, 2023, 04:04:41 AM
I've become quite spicy about anti-Christian rhetoric. I hear so much of it and it keeps getting worse and more intense, that I'm fairly sick of it.

Christians aren't the problem in modern society, and even in the 80's and 90's they weren't any near as bad as this current crop of Glitter Trolls, coupled with the power of rampant Wokism, and domination by techbros who are overwhelmingly Marxist in their thinking.

Times are looking pretty dark for anyone who isn't a blue-haired weirdo who thinks child mutilation is gender-affirming care.

Whereas I have little patience for those who dismiss the Satanic Panic and its aftermath.

I had the misfortune to live through that hell and one of my friends went through so much worse because of one of the local churches.

I'd like to think that these worst case scenarios were few and far between. But I know they were not as few or as far between as I'd like. As of 10 years ago I was still seeing fallout here and there if the Satanic Panic influence.

Quote from: Thor's Nads on February 05, 2023, 04:04:41 AM

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 05, 2023, 12:21:00 AM
I specifically called out the demonstrable bad actions of a particularly egregious wing of the Christian faith in the past, and you took it personally and called me retarded. Let's not pretend I knocked on your door and took a dump.

You have a massive raw nerve, and I brushed against it. I'm sure you've rationalized your overreaction in your mind, but picture this. I never said anything about you, or about mainstream Christians, and you went straight to personal insults.

I have zero beef with you, but I also call out BS.

I've become quite spicy about anti-Christian rhetoric. I hear so much of it and it keeps getting worse and more intense, that I'm fairly sick of it.

Christians aren't the problem in modern society, and even in the 80's and 90's they weren't any near as bad as this current crop of Glitter Trolls, coupled with the power of rampant Wokism, and domination by techbros who are overwhelmingly Marxist in their thinking.

Times are looking pretty dark for anyone who isn't a blue-haired weirdo who thinks child mutilation is gender-affirming care.

The wokists are way more dangerous and successful at hurting my freedoms and destroying my hobbies than the everything-is-sinful branch of Christianity ever was, but not for lack of trying.

The wokists have advantages in social media, Hollywood and Silicon Valley that give them an insidious reach the Satanic panic bunch could only dream of. The extreme-Christian pressure was external, wokists breached the walls.

I didn't just hallucinate the Mazes And Monsters hoopla though, or the rulebook burnings. I've met people who had to play D&D in secret, and not from embarrassment.

If you're not a fire and brimstone Christian, you shouldn't take offense at any of this though. Just as I, as an Atheist, try very hard not to be constantly offended when the idea that Atheism and nihilism/wokery/Climate lunatics are inexorably tied, is tossed around willy-nilly on this very forum.

I don't believe in a Deity, that's what Atheist means. Atheism+ is just that, Atheism plus some kind of horse shit. I love America, the rule of law, have a wife and child, help people when I can, and try to find meaning in loved ones and the majesty of the universe.

TLDR anyone, Christian or anything else, can be a dick. It's important to acknowledge bad actors, say "not all, not me" and move on. Oh, and we're all fertilizer to Marxists.

Quote from: Omega on February 05, 2023, 04:22:51 AM

Quote from: Thor's Nads on February 05, 2023, 04:04:41 AM
I've become quite spicy about anti-Christian rhetoric. I hear so much of it and it keeps getting worse and more intense, that I'm fairly sick of it.

Christians aren't the problem in modern society, and even in the 80's and 90's they weren't any near as bad as this current crop of Glitter Trolls, coupled with the power of rampant Wokism, and domination by techbros who are overwhelmingly Marxist in their thinking.

Times are looking pretty dark for anyone who isn't a blue-haired weirdo who thinks child mutilation is gender-affirming care.

Whereas I have little patience for those who dismiss the Satanic Panic and its aftermath.

I had the misfortune to live through that hell and one of my friends went through so much worse because of one of the local churches.

I'd like to think that these worst case scenarios were few and far between. But I know they were not as few or as far between as I'd like. As of 10 years ago I was still seeing fallout here and there if the Satanic Panic influence.

I won't discount your experience; just point out that said experience was extremely regional as, in my neck of the woods it was my priest who defended one of my friends from his harridan mother (someone easily recognized today as a Karen) who insisted D&D was a devil worship kit.*

And that was MY experience with the whole deal. It wasn't the churches (outside of Jack Chick and he said everything, including my Church, was satanic) that were going after D&D... it was the Karens of the day who attended the churches (and invariably jumped from one to the next as each pastor offended her in turn by failing to agree with whatever her interpretation of "Christianity" was) who pushed the matter.

The Karens aren't nearly so much in the conservative churches anymore... they've gravitated to the places that indulge their "more righteous than thou" whims... like the entire Woke spectrum of political activism.

The people behind the Satanic Panic and the Woke cancel culture are largely the same batch of self-righteous harridans they've always been... they just switched which organization they're riding the authority wave on.

Blaming actual Christianity and Christian churches for the Satanic Panic from my experience is like blaming a homeowner for the chaos caused by a drunken party crasher at an open house. The Karens behind the Satanic Panic were no more "Christian" than Judas or Simon the Magician.

* I bring it up a lot in relation to the topic only because it is literally the only example I have in my area. The Satanic Panic just wasn't a thing here and the one example was was a "known nutter" who got shut down by the priest. That doesn't mean it didn't happen elsewhere, it just means it was very regional.

Quote from: Chris24601Blaming actual Christianity and Christian churches for the Satanic Panic from my experience is like blaming a homeowner for the chaos caused by a drunken party crasher at an open house. The Karens behind the Satanic Panic were no more "Christian" than Judas or Simon the Magician.

Sorry but this is pure No True Scotsman. You don't get to excise bad apples from your collective group. Some groups attract/create Karens at a higher than average level.

Quote from: Chris24601* I bring it up a lot in relation to the topic only because it is literally the only example I have in my area. The Satanic Panic just wasn't a thing here and the one example was was a "known nutter" who got shut down by the priest. That doesn't mean it didn't happen elsewhere, it just means it was very regional.

Well yeah. If one lives in rural Arkansas, or the English countryside, wokery is a mild annoyance one sees on the T.V. If one lives in New York or London, it's an ever present boot pressing down on one's head.

When we started up a gaming group at lunch time in school, we hadn't been running for more than a month or so when some kids parent threw a fit. Complained to the principle that we were doing satanism and witchcraft and whatever else. Thankfully, one of our teachers had gamed in college - he still had the Moldvay basic sets, we later learned. He went to bat for us with the principle. In the end, the principle and two teachers watched us play every day for a week. In the end, they concluded that there was nothing evil going on - actually I think we bored them stupid.

But even with that, we had to agree to not let the kid who's parent threw a fit play, and we had to do it in the library store room, where nobody could see us play. Which actually ended up giving us a bit of mystique, I think, because normally nobody was allowed in there without a teacher. But even still, it was fucking stupid. And outside of school, we basically couldn't interact with that kid anymore. His parents would never let us go to his house, he could never go to ours, never go with us to movies, nothing.

I learned years later that my own mother didn't want me playing, but my dad wouldn't let her stop me - my dad was rabidly pro-reading, and basically viewed anything involving reading books as good. Bless him. But suddenly the fact she aways made derogatory comments about it whenever I got a new book or something made more sense. And I was told not to bring it up with my family.

I know, it's just anecdotes. But I was there, I experienced that shit, and I've got no patience for people who want to try to memory hole it.

Quote from: Chris24601 on February 05, 2023, 08:49:56 AM
I won't discount your experience; just point out that said experience was extremely regional as, in my neck of the woods it was my priest who defended one of my friends from his harridan mother (someone easily recognized today as a Karen) who insisted D&D was a devil worship kit.*

And that was MY experience with the whole deal. It wasn't the churches (outside of Jack Chick and he said everything, including my Church, was satanic) that were going after D&D... it was the Karens of the day who attended the churches (and invariably jumped from one to the next as each pastor offended her in turn by failing to agree with whatever her interpretation of "Christianity" was) who pushed the matter.

Yeah, but... It doesn't matter if it was being done by the shepherd or the flock. That's irrelevant. It was done in the name of the religion, which motivated other people who may not have actually gave two shits to join in, because of some ignorant sense of piety or holier-than-thou bullshit.

Quote from: Chris24601 on February 05, 2023, 08:49:56 AMBlaming actual Christianity and Christian churches for the Satanic Panic from my experience is like blaming a homeowner for the chaos caused by a drunken party crasher at an open house. The Karens behind the Satanic Panic were no more "Christian" than Judas or Simon the Magician.

But it wasn't just Karens. And it wasn't *just* D&D, either, although that tends to be one of the things people remember the most... For a while, it was all sorts of things. Churches would actually have those fucking Chick strip pamphlets. Television preachers would preach against whatever cultural trend annoyed or scared them. And if it wasn't D&D, it was comic books, or video games, or rock and roll music - and everyone had that one aunt or grandparent or something that would get them Christian versions of something. "I know you like music, so here's Godworshipers on Tour!", or whatever. Or know the couple of kids in school who's parents only let them have Christian media. And parents didn't just spontaneously decide Aerosmith or The X-Men were satanic. They were told that by "trusted religious Authorities".

So no, sorry, it's not that easy to dismiss what happened .

The Satanic Panic experience must have just depended on one's personal circle, because even though I grew up in a small town in the Bible Belt, my experience mirrors Chris'.  I remember getting a few asshole comments from kids at school, but no authority figure -- parents, teachers, or preachers -- ever criticized my gaming in any way.  And I didn't hide that I was a gamer, either.  I do feel sorry for those of you who were persecuted for it, though.

Quote from: I on February 05, 2023, 01:16:15 PM
The Satanic Panic experience must have just depended on one's personal circle, because even though I grew up in a small town in the Bible Belt, my experience mirrors Chris'.  I remember getting a few asshole comments from kids at school, but no authority figure -- parents, teachers, or preachers -- ever criticized my gaming in any way.  And I didn't hide that I was a gamer, either.  I do feel sorry for those of you who were persecuted for it, though.

So I guess you just had the newspaper and T.V. news hysteria, Mazes and Monsters, police investigations, and a few shows where a police detective or teacher finds a gaming miniature or rulebook and acts like he just found a serial killer confession.

Come on, man.

Quote from: I on February 05, 2023, 01:16:15 PM
The Satanic Panic experience must have just depended on one's personal circle, because even though I grew up in a small town in the Bible Belt, my experience mirrors Chris'.  I remember getting a few asshole comments from kids at school, but no authority figure -- parents, teachers, or preachers -- ever criticized my gaming in any way.  And I didn't hide that I was a gamer, either.  I do feel sorry for those of you who were persecuted for it, though.

Hell, it didn't even end when I was an adult. In college, we couldn't game at our GM's apartment, because his roommate wouldn't allow D&D to be played in public spaces in the apartment. He wasn't saying no guests, we could be over, watch movies, play board games, whatever... but no D&D. This was a grown-ass man, telling other grown-ass men they couldn't pretend to be elves in his presence, because he was scared of the Satan cooties or some shit.

I'm glad someone mentioned Jack Chick, because he was the originator of the Satanic Panic, and he by far didn't represent all or even the vast majority of Christians.  Jack attacked my church and most other Christian denominations as vehemently as he did D&D players.  So I'm glad that the one poster somewhat backtracked his blanket statement, changing his tune to not blame all of Christianity now.  Most atheists are comfortable enough in their beliefs that they don't have to put down entire religions in broad stereotypes.

I ordered all of the Jack Chick pamphlets so could read them and laugh at them.  I still have my collection.  A relative actually had me a custom-made T-shirt of one of Chick's pamphlet covers.  It got me a lot of nice compliments.

Quote from: Cathode Ray on February 05, 2023, 01:55:26 PM
I'm glad someone mentioned Jack Chick, because he was the originator of the Satanic Panic, and he by far didn't represent all or even the vast majority of Christians.  Jack attacked my church and most other Christian denominations as vehemently as he did D&D players.

And yet it was not uncommon to find Chick Strips in the pamphlet rack at churches that ol' Jackhole probably would himself condemn. Small-minded and ignorant fear and hatred is not logical.

Quote from: Cathode Ray on February 05, 2023, 01:55:26 PMSo I'm glad that the one poster somewhat backtracked his blanket statement, changing his tune to not blame all of Christianity now.  Most atheists are comfortable enough in their beliefs that they don't have to put down entire religions in broad stereotypes.

All I did was reiterate and clarify. My original posts were always about the holier-than-thou and moral-panic Christians. I have slain many a racial stereotype, sorry Orc, with Christian friends.

Quote from: I on February 05, 2023, 01:16:15 PM
The Satanic Panic experience must have just depended on one's personal circle, because even though I grew up in a small town in the Bible Belt, my experience mirrors Chris'.  I remember getting a few asshole comments from kids at school, but no authority figure -- parents, teachers, or preachers -- ever criticized my gaming in any way.  And I didn't hide that I was a gamer, either.  I do feel sorry for those of you who were persecuted for it, though.

Ditto. I am also from the Bible Belt, and my first D&D group was literally a church D-group. After five minutes of reading R.C. Sproul, we got bored and pulled out our RPG books. And we were not trying to be particularly subtle, either. We left RPG books, dice, and character sheets out in the open all the time.

My guess is the Charismatic churches were the pushers of the Satanic Panic, and that is one of the key reason the hobby has a very low Black participation rate (Black churches are overwhelmingly Charismatic). It certainly didn't affect me in my Evangelical "MethoBapTerian" circles.

Quote from: Thor's Nads on January 30, 2023, 02:04:05 PM
The internet of the 90's and early 2000's was awesome. Open, free, like the wild west. But as the libtards continued their slow steady march towards full communism they were ok with the internet being unrestricted until Trump was elected, the first time in their lifetime a US president didn't aid them in their Marxist goals, this completely freaked them out and they've been doing everything in the power to lockdown dissident voices anywhere and everywhere. You are not allowed an opinion that is to the right of Chairman Mao.

We are seeing the internet being closed and locked down all around us. It is horrifying to watch this happen in real time. I used to wonder how an ideology as evil as Communism was able to take over Russia, China, and other countries. Now I wonder no longer.

I think the turn of the corner happened in the later Obama years. I think two things happened at roughly the same time; the Left sensed a chance to win the culture war they were waging by discarding libertarianism in favor of totalitarianism, and Silicon Valley platforms decided that if they wanted to sell more ads, they should put people in echo chambers. It's clear that RPG.Net is intentionally copying Twitter outrage culture. And I understand the decision, too. After all, if you think that men should be allowed in women's locker rooms and compete in women's sports and women who complain need to be re-educated, you neither have a brain nor a sense of morals, so of course you would copy someone else's homework.

Quote from: Fheredin on February 05, 2023, 03:02:00 PM

Ditto. I am also from the Bible Belt, and my first D&D group was literally a church D-group. After five minutes of reading R.C. Sproul, we got bored and pulled out our RPG books. And we were not trying to be particularly subtle, either. We left RPG books, dice, and character sheets out in the open all the time.

My guess is the Charismatic churches were the pushers of the Satanic Panic, and that is one of the key reason the hobby has a very low Black participation rate (Black churches are overwhelmingly Charismatic). It certainly didn't affect me in my Evangelical "MethoBapTerian" circles.

This was more or less my experience.  I had a couple of friends who decided on their own that they weren't comfortable with gaming.  Never gave the rest of us any grief over it, and we didn't them, either.  We continued to do everything else with them, like people do in a rural area/small town. 

The biggest difference between then and now is two things compounding:  Then, the press covered whatever they wanted to cover, and what they wanted was to blow up the Karen's complaining, because it made "Christians" look bad.  Now, the press hides the worst excesses of the Left, makes excuses for them, and goes after anyone that disagrees with them.  And of course the internet makes any thing like that blow up faster and louder. 

Like I said earlier in another way:  These "communities" have always had people that would do exactly what they were doing now, if they could.  The only thing that keeps them in check is people refusing to bow down to them.  I had a close relative that deeply disapproved of fantasy gaming (and for that matter, fantasy literature).  We had a lot of conversations about it.  But she also had a strong belief that people had to live their lives the way they were going to live them.  She didn't let our disagreement color anything else we did.  There were a lot more people like her around me that the Karen's, thankfully.

Also, I kind of hate that "Karen" has been hitched to that kind of person.  All the people I knew with that name for real were very nice.

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 05, 2023, 01:31:17 PM

Quote from: I on February 05, 2023, 01:16:15 PM
The Satanic Panic experience must have just depended on one's personal circle, because even though I grew up in a small town in the Bible Belt, my experience mirrors Chris'.  I remember getting a few asshole comments from kids at school, but no authority figure -- parents, teachers, or preachers -- ever criticized my gaming in any way.  And I didn't hide that I was a gamer, either.  I do feel sorry for those of you who were persecuted for it, though.

So I guess you just had the newspaper and T.V. news hysteria, Mazes and Monsters, police investigations, and a few shows where a police detective or teacher finds a gaming miniature or rulebook and acts like he just found a serial killer confession.

Come on, man.

Yes, that's all I had, and since it stemmed from mass-media I summarily ignored it.  Same as I do now.  If these things had influenced any of the people with authority over me, then yes, the effect would have been bad.  But I didn't give a shit about TV shows or news articles; I dismissed them much as I dismiss Twitter and the like today.  I did read the book and watch the TV movie of "Mazes and Monsters" though, for the laughs and the cringes.  As a "so bad it's good" experience, I recommend both, particularly the awful Tom Hanks movie.

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 05, 2023, 01:31:17 PM

Quote from: I on February 05, 2023, 01:16:15 PM
The Satanic Panic experience must have just depended on one's personal circle, because even though I grew up in a small town in the Bible Belt, my experience mirrors Chris'.  I remember getting a few asshole comments from kids at school, but no authority figure -- parents, teachers, or preachers -- ever criticized my gaming in any way.  And I didn't hide that I was a gamer, either.  I do feel sorry for those of you who were persecuted for it, though.

So I guess you just had the newspaper and T.V. news hysteria, Mazes and Monsters, police investigations, and a few shows where a police detective or teacher finds a gaming miniature or rulebook and acts like he just found a serial killer confession.

Come on, man.

You saw me mention my friend's nutter mom right? How old do you think I was when that was going on? During the height of the Satanic panic I wasn't reading newspapers or watching crime dramas. I doubt my parents have ever even heard of Mazes & Minotaurs and Jack Chick Tracts have never been welcome in the Catholic Church.

I was in Scouts or riding my bike around the neighborhood or watching whatever cartoons, sitcoms and action-comedy or scifi/fantasy shows (there was one fantasy tv show, Wizards & Warriors, my Dad and I particularly liked) or whatever else could be agreed upon by a family with one tv set and five channels... If something I didn't like I was reading or drawing up a map for my next dungeon delve.

One of the guys who games at my store got kicked out of the place he was living for playing D&D this week, no joke.  It's a bit of an odd case, social services foster kid who was living in the bushes of the river valley having turned 18 when he first started coming in to game.  Anyhow, the government agencies got him into university but he bombed out in the first semester due to family problems and turned to religion.  He's had quite the life but lately he was unemployed and living with a family that he met at church but when they found out he was into D&D they threw him out for 'not respecting their values.'  And while that's fine, we certainly shouldn't expect people to provide free room and board for people they don't like after all.  Even so, the Satanic Panic still has deep roots in religious communities.

Greetings!

I've always greatly enjoyed the Jack Chick comics. Fucking hilarious! I've known so many gamers that have enjoyed those comics, the characters, the crazy drama. "Blackleaf? Oh NO!" ;D

As for the "Satanic Panic"--yeah, that whole thing was NOTING like the WOKE bs, insanity, and tyranny going on today.

Some like to sound smug as in "We've seen this all before" blah, blah, blah. No, we haven't. Small groups of church women and a few preachers wasn't wrecking our entire society. The fucking Woketards and Marxists are threatening to corrupt and destroy our entire society. Feminism, Libtards, Wokeism, CRT, they all have their ideological roots in MARXISM. Every fucking one of them.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 05, 2023, 11:24:13 AM

Quote from: Chris24601Blaming actual Christianity and Christian churches for the Satanic Panic from my experience is like blaming a homeowner for the chaos caused by a drunken party crasher at an open house. The Karens behind the Satanic Panic were no more "Christian" than Judas or Simon the Magician.

Sorry but this is pure No True Scotsman. You don't get to excise bad apples from your collective group. Some groups attract/create Karens at a higher than average level.

Not sure the True Scotsman fallacy applies to this situation, because of course Christians are not a monolithic group. My experience with the Satanic Panic (which always struck me as way overblown, I even played D&D with a Baptist minister in the late 80's) was my dad asked me once, fearfully, if I was a Dungeon Master, because my aunt told him some bad things about D&D, and I explained that a DM was like a cross between a sports referee and a storyteller to put it in terms he could understand. And that was the end of it. Maybe there were some places that it got more extreme, I dunno.

Today the Woke are mandating kindergarteners learn Marxist and gender ideology and shutting down people's right to free speech if they disagree, and are advocating for permanent body altering surgery because a tween boy or girl was sad and thinks maybe being a different gender will solve their problems. So I'd say what is happening today is dramatically worse, and Christians (and maybe a few others) seem to be the only ones calling it out.

As the title of this thread says "It's absolutely insane how suppressive most TTRPG communities have become" and this applies as well to the rest of society in the US of Gay.

Quote from: Fheredin on February 05, 2023, 03:02:00 PM

Quote from: I on February 05, 2023, 01:16:15 PM
The Satanic Panic experience must have just depended on one's personal circle, because even though I grew up in a small town in the Bible Belt, my experience mirrors Chris'.  I remember getting a few asshole comments from kids at school, but no authority figure -- parents, teachers, or preachers -- ever criticized my gaming in any way.  And I didn't hide that I was a gamer, either.  I do feel sorry for those of you who were persecuted for it, though.

Ditto. I am also from the Bible Belt, and my first D&D group was literally a church D-group. After five minutes of reading R.C. Sproul, we got bored and pulled out our RPG books. And we were not trying to be particularly subtle, either. We left RPG books, dice, and character sheets out in the open all the time.

My guess is the Charismatic churches were the pushers of the Satanic Panic, and that is one of the key reason the hobby has a very low Black participation rate (Black churches are overwhelmingly Charismatic). It certainly didn't affect me in my Evangelical "MethoBapTerian" circles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial

The origin of the Satanic Panic was the book Michelle Remembers, about "recovered memories" (since debunked), and how media and the public bounced off each other to create a moral panic that impacted thousands of people.

Covid has convinced me that people are panicky animals at the best of times, with the slightest sense of danger able to send them off the edge. Whether it's Covid or Satan or The Commies. People lose their motherfucking minds, and the best any individual can do is try to get the fuck out the way and let them tear the world and each other apart.

We're far past time for a national divorce.

Each side needs to live without the other's presence.

Or we can play Cowboys & Woketards and see how that goes.

Quote from: Spinachcat on February 06, 2023, 02:54:53 AM
We're far past time for a national divorce.

Each side needs to live without the other's presence.

Or we can play Cowboys & Woketards and see how that goes.

I've seen some pretty good maps that give the Left coast and North East to the commies, and the rest of America to the rest of us, and thought you know I'd be fine with this. Alberta can join us.

(http://westernstandard.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/exilemap.jpg)

Quote from: I on February 05, 2023, 02:07:56 PM
I ordered all of the Jack Chick pamphlets so could read them and laugh at them.  I still have my collection.  A relative actually had me a custom-made T-shirt of one of Chick's pamphlet covers.  It got me a lot of nice compliments.

Hot take: his comics are pretty good and not badly drawn. He did some actual comic books too and if he'd just toned down the fundamentalism a bit they had some decent stories. The only way I could describe them is they were these GI Joe missionaries battling satanism in other countries and saving people.

Quote from: Thor's Nads on February 06, 2023, 04:14:32 AM

Quote from: I on February 05, 2023, 02:07:56 PM
I ordered all of the Jack Chick pamphlets so could read them and laugh at them.  I still have my collection.  A relative actually had me a custom-made T-shirt of one of Chick's pamphlet covers.  It got me a lot of nice compliments.

Hot take: his comics are pretty good and not badly drawn. He did some actual comic books too and if he'd just toned down the fundamentalism a bit they had some decent stories. The only way I could describe them is they were these GI Joe missionaries battling satanism in other countries and saving people.

There has to be an alternate universe where jack Chick drew Bibleman comicbook adaptions.

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 05, 2023, 01:31:17 PMpolice investigations, and a few shows where a police detective or teacher finds a gaming miniature or rulebook and acts like he just found a serial killer confession.

Come on, man.

As of the early 2000s our local big city police were still reffing an anti D&D pamphlet meant to "detect" satanic cults at crime scenes. By looking for D&D and RPG material.

Quote from: David Johansen on February 05, 2023, 08:35:22 PM
One of the guys who games at my store got kicked out of the place he was living for playing D&D this week, no joke.  It's a bit of an odd case, social services foster kid who was living in the bushes of the river valley having turned 18 when he first started coming in to game.  Anyhow, the government agencies got him into university but he bombed out in the first semester due to family problems and turned to religion.  He's had quite the life but lately he was unemployed and living with a family that he met at church but when they found out he was into D&D they threw him out for 'not respecting their values.'  And while that's fine, we certainly shouldn't expect people to provide free room and board for people they don't like after all.  Even so, the Satanic Panic still has deep roots in religious communities.

:( This story makes me sad. I hope he finds a home and can rebuild his life into something with which he is content.  :) Also sending prayers... one's that are not afraid of D&D.

Quote from: Omega on February 06, 2023, 06:11:08 AM

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 05, 2023, 01:31:17 PMpolice investigations, and a few shows where a police detective or teacher finds a gaming miniature or rulebook and acts like he just found a serial killer confession.

Come on, man.

As of the early 2000s our local big city police were still reffing an anti D&D pamphlet meant to "detect" satanic cults at crime scenes. By looking for D&D and RPG material.

:o Oh dear, I am not fully surprised, just disappointed. My gaming pyramid tm must have looked to their "CSI" unit like the pleasure island of Caligula. /hides my beanie babies covering my Monster Manual

Quote from: Cathode Ray on February 05, 2023, 01:55:26 PM
I'm glad someone mentioned Jack Chick, because he was the originator of the Satanic Panic, and he by far didn't represent all or even the vast majority of Christians.  Jack attacked my church and most other Christian denominations as vehemently as he did D&D players.  So I'm glad that the one poster somewhat backtracked his blanket statement, changing his tune to not blame all of Christianity now.  Most atheists are comfortable enough in their beliefs that they don't have to put down entire religions in broad stereotypes.

As it keeps coming up, I direct ya'lls attention to The Pulling Report by Michael Stackpole

http://www.rpgstudies.net/stackpole/pulling_report.html

QuoteIntroduction

Patricia Pulling is a woman known for having mounted a brave campaign against the diabolical forces that have been unleashed in America today. A licensed private Investigator, she is the founder of Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons and the author of The Devil's Web. She has been hired as an expert in gaming for murder trials in Missouri, Oklahoma and North Carolina. She has appeared on 60 Minutes, Geraldo and on numerous radio programs, like the nationally syndicated "Jim Bohannon Show."

Her courage in the face of the Satanic conspiracy is nothing short of amazing. The dogged tirelessness that allows her to go on lecture tours, write books and edit newsletters is incredible. Her willingness to help the police investigate cult crimes and her uncompromising drive to publicize the dangers of Satanism are unquestionably seen as noble and civic minded.

Within the community of "Cult Crime" investigators, she has become a figure of mythic proportion.

Unfortunately for Mrs. Pulling – as with most myths – the kernel of truth around which the legend has been built is no where near as attractive as the myth. As will be shown in this report, which cuts through the blue smoke and mirrors surrounding her crusade, Mrs. Pulling is hardly the appropriate person to be given responsibility in crime investigations. In her pursuit of a grand Satanic conspiracy – the same one she ultimately holds responsible for the suicide death of her son – she has engaged in unethical and illegal practices. Her methods and tactics, at their very best, taint any evidence she might offer and, at their worst, construct a monster where none exists.

This report, while hardly exhaustive, provides a catalog of things Mrs. Pulling has done to produce evidence of everything from murderous toys to a worldwide Satanic conspiracy that contains in it one out of every twelve citizens of Richmond, Virginia. The majority of this information deals with her early assault on the games upon which she blames her son's death. The rest of it has been developed through study of her occult investigations and the other individuals with whom she works and associates in the anti-Satanism movement.

There is quite a bit more, but it exceeds the 40,000 character limit of posts and I have to get to work. It is well worth the time to read.

I put this bit of humor in one of the Radical High books.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/992735292182233098/1072141226612113438/image.png)

Quote from: Opaopajr on February 06, 2023, 06:34:19 AM

:( This story makes me sad. I hope he finds a home and can rebuild his life into something with which he is content.  :) Also sending prayers... one's that are not afraid of D&D.

Thanks, it's a sad story.  But it illustrates that the satanic panic is still hurting people.  I'm hoping they'll finally get him on Alberta's very generous income support for the severely handicapped program.  I'd be happier if he could keep a job but it doesn't seem likely.