Thought about this while reading the thread that compares GURPS combat with the upcoming 4th editon D&D.


I practically NEVER get bogged down in details when running GURPS combat.  WHY?


Its because of the magic of the phrase "Is This Likely?"


The game I ran this past Saturday - for example.

The player characters recognized a friend of theirs from a past adventure and she needs to get away from these thugs who have her handcuffed. SO - a barfight and rescue winds up happening.


 Did I have the thugs fully statted out ?  NO

Did I force the group to do every tedious detail ? NOPE.

The most important two rolls really are : Did you hit them ? (Roll under your skill number) and what damage did you do ?  and of course Didv the NPC hit you ?  Did he do any damage?


Everything else is based on : "Is it likely?"

I still rolled for the bad guys - I figured that most of their attributes averaged out around 10 or 11. Also, they weren't that bright or tactical geniuses.

The players had fun and a commotion was caused in a Starport Bar called BRUBEKS.   ...And it didn't take 6 hours to play out just the combat.


- Ed C.

See, back in first edition I was prone to building twinked 25 point combat monsters with -45 points in disadvantages and quirks.  When you layered the skelleton template on top of that it got really scary.  Then there was the 25 point guy with the flail my players learned to hate and fear.

Nowadays I still like to have stuff stated out, but yeah, the secret to GURPS combat is to ignore anything that isn't immediately important.

edit*and to have npcs make stupid all out attacks when the fight is getting too long.

Are there people who don't run most GURPS combats like that? :confused:

Mmm, what about defense rolls? The thing that extends GURPS combat is the fact the other guy gets a defense roll. You don't just hit and do damage. The other guy needs to blow his defense roll.

If you eliminate defense rolls (other for situations like surprise,etc) , that doesn't seem like a GURPS game anymore.

Otherwise I agree with the spirit of the article and reflects what I do a lot of the time. I have a standard average joe NPC, an average thug NPC, and a average Guard NPC that I use for rough stats. GURPS emphasis on realism does help in a lot of odd situations. "Gee now what would really would happen here? OK that looks like a DEX roll at -3, made it?, good, you are behind the guy.

I also tend to allow all out attacks with missile weapons to get +4 instead of +1 because it cuts down on dodging.

Eh?  I think a lot of this matches what I often do in a game.  For example, I'm running a Spirit of the Century game now -- and like Koltar suggests, the thugs don't have detailed stats, they are just Average or Good (say).  There won't be lots of tedious detail in the combat -- just a single opposed roll for each action.  

However, if I'm going to run a system with detailed combat and lots of fiddly stats and rules like GURPS, then its generally because I want that detail.   If I didn't want detail, I wouldn't run GURPS.  It seems silly to me to choose a very detailed system, and then always skip over the "tedious detail" (as Koltar describes it).  

If I generally want low-detail, fast combat, I'll play a game based on simple mechancis like FATE or BRP or Cinematic Unisystem.

Quote from: jhkimIt seems silly to me to choose a very detailed system, and then always skip over the "tedious detail" (as Koltar describes it).
 
If I generally want low-detail, fast combat, I'll play a game based on simple mechancis like FATE or BRP or Cinematic Unisystem.

This matches my sensibilities. If you don't want to use all the detail, why not use something that you can jump into right away without setting up the detail in the first place. Actually, all three of the games mentioned above are good choices for that.

Because it's nice to have the detail there when you want it and or need it.

The game can be turned up to 11, it's just that you don't need it always.

Quote from: darBecause it's nice to have the detail there when you want it and or need it.

The game can be turned up to 11, it's just that you don't need it always.

In principle, I agree.  That is, I wouldn't always use the full combat system in HERO.  So, when the superhero Templar was faced with a nasty gang member, we just played that out as in-character conversation and I took it as a given that he could grab her -- but the player also was OK for him to be surprised when she knifed him (to no effect).  We didn't go to initiative and strike rolls for this.  However, that was the exception rather than the rule.  

If the subject is "every combat is quicker" and the approach is to "practically NEVER" be bogged down with details, then it seems really strange to me.  How much are you really getting from having all those ticky details if they are practically never used?

Maybe Koltar feels that GURPS actually runs very well even when you pare it down to its essentials?

There is alot more to GURPS than just combat. There is lots of detail in other parts of the game.

The detailed combat could be reserved for times when the combat is the point of the encounter/session or pivotal to the adventure. The detail could be reserved for those times when the gamers would enjoy it more, depending on their mood, who shows up that night, what characters are in play or the genre (I've run games where the genre de jour could and did change in the same campaign).

For me, dialing up and down the detail is important because of the action of the players, I'll end up scrambling to catch up, and I absodamnloutly am not able to plan out everything.

But I think I get your point. I'd just rather have the detail, even as an option.

Oy!!


I got to work 8 hours + - and look at you guys and this thread.

 Dar is mostly right.

My group is lucky if we get a good 2 and half to 3 hours worth of game time in when we have a session.

When we game on Sundays or have more control of the environment - then we can go maybe 3 to 5 hours.

Its like Dar phrase it, you dial it up or down depending on hoiw much time you (or we have)

If I know we barely have 3 hours to game , then the detail level is around 6 or 7. If I know in advance we have at least 3 to maybe 5 hours to game - then I can "dial it up" to 10 or 11 in the detailed stuff.


- Ed C.