I came across the below article while reading through the enworld news page. Thought it would be of interest to the forum goers as there are many OSR Old Timey game fans here, as well as plenty of folks who have "opinions" re more modern story games.
"Is Evil Hat republishing TSR's "Star Frontiers"? (http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?4463-Is-Evil-Hat-Republishing-TSR-s-Star-Frontiers#.Wa7QorKGP_I)
Seems Evil Hat publishing purchased the Star Frontiers trademark (see link) (https://inventively.com/search/trademarks/87514096)
I tried to like Fate but for me it was to Indie/Story/Player-Power for me. If it was being done via the "Strands of Fate (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/84757/Strands-of-Fate)" and "Stands of Power (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/97330/Strands-of-Power)" FATE hack it might be ok. But I sense a Sci-Fi version of more or less Dungeon World would/will be the result.
Didn't they buy the name Chill and make a game that isn't really Chill at all? This will probably be the same thing.
It is all going to depend on the implementation. I'm not a fan of FATE or FATE Accelerated either.
What interests me is how this will affect the agreement between TSR and the Star Frontiers.net guys. Allowing for the publication of Star Frontiers material old and new as long as it is at no charge.
Please God No.
I am ignorant of the situation with chill. What was wrong with it?
Quote from: Manic Modron;989281I am ignorant of the situation with chill. What was wrong with it?
I backed the new 3rd Edition of Chill. It's a nicely done work, but has some story game elements in it (not generally my cup of tea).
I don't think EHG bought Chill trademark but GDG made the most recent edition. http://growlingdoorgames.com/chill.html
If you want a Chill reboot that is very much like the original check out Cryptworld from Goblinoid Games. Pacesetter system mechanics, different name for trademark reasons.
I would love to see Star Frontiers back in print, but I am not sure FATE would be the best system for it. But it could work, if they make a specific adaptation of FATE to do Star Frontiers, not try to adapt SF to existing FATE. But it would probably be better than a d20/3.x/5e game. My preference would be to cleanup and expand the original percentile system.
Quote from: DavetheLost;989294If you want a Chill reboot that is very much like the original check out Cryptworld from Goblinoid Games. Pacesetter system mechanics, different name for trademark reasons.
Yeah, I have
Cryptworld; it's essentially 1st edition
Chill under another name. When I get a chance to actually run it, I'd like to play a lighthearted Monster Chiller Horror Theater sort of campaign...
Quote from: Omega;989272Please God No.
My sentiments exactly.
Well, there's always Traveller...
I admit that I just don't understand any of the love for Star Frontiers. My memory is a little rusty, but I recall some very hokey old-fashioned sci-fi. Is there any reason to play SF instead of say Traveller?
Quote from: Edgewise;989318I admit that I just don't understand any of the love for Star Frontiers. My memory is a little rusty, but I recall some very hokey old-fashioned sci-fi. Is there any reason to play SF instead of say Traveller?
No, but some people like the setting and aliens. The Dralasites, Vrusk, and Yazirians are pretty cool ideas.
Edit: Dralasites, not Drasalites! Just looked it up...I think I've been calling them the wrong name for over 30 years.
The conversion is already done. Just use Fate Accelerated.
Is Fate still trending?
Quote from: Edgewise;989318I admit that I just don't understand any of the love for Star Frontiers. My memory is a little rusty, but I recall some very hokey old-fashioned sci-fi. Is there any reason to play SF instead of say Traveller?
Star Frontiers wasn't much to write home about when it was released. About as mediocre as SPI's Universe was. Both games sputtered out for a reason, just like how any other RPG fails. Most gamers confuse "old" with "Classic", when it's really "junk."
I've been playing in a Star Frontiers campaign for a few months now. I'm playing a Saurian who wants to be a space pirate and wears a great big sea coat, well, not lately, we're crash landed on a desert world.
Anyhow, it works okay with a few tweaks but if I were reprinting it I wouldn't change much. What I would do is a big, fat setting book. My GM's blended sf with Star Trek and SFB material but I think a more game specific setting would be in order. The races are weird but playable and do a decent job of avoiding outright furries or face putty aliens.
Mechanically it's almost too simple but there are lots of nice little things like the uniform Standard Energy Units for batteries and the specific sockets on them. Inspired? No, at the very least they could have gone with 1/2 stat + 10 / rank on more skills than weapons. My GM rules that if you take more than half of your Stamina in a single round, you're knocked out.
Anyhow, it's solid and reasonably fun to play, though I personally prefer GURPS or Traveller or Spacemaster on just about all counts.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;989381Is Fate still trending?
Star Frontiers wasn't much to write home about when it was released. About as mediocre as SPI's Universe was. Both games sputtered out for a reason, just like how any other RPG fails. Most gamers confuse "old" with "Classic", when it's really "junk."
Wrong.
Star Frontiers was actually doing pretty well at the time of its cancellation.
The reason it was cancelled was Loraine wanted to get out the buck Rogers RPG and didnt want any competition to lining her pockets with the royalties she was garnering on top of everything else.
Quote from: Omega;989413Wrong.
Star Frontiers was actually doing pretty well at the time of its cancellation.
The reason it was cancelled was Loraine wanted to get out the buck Rogers RPG and didnt want any competition to lining her pockets with the royalties she was garnering on top of everything else.
Citation? I want to know how well Star Frontier was really doing.
Oh good, another classic IP snapped up by narrative guys.
For all their love of creative storytelling, they sure can't seem to make a setting, can they?
Quote from: Omega;989272Please God No.
Totally agree. We have Star Frontiers already.
Quote from: Edgewise;989318I admit that I just don't understand any of the love for Star Frontiers. My memory is a little rusty, but I recall some very hokey old-fashioned sci-fi. Is there any reason to play SF instead of say Traveller?
To me the two systems have a very different feel. I don't see a lot of overlap. I love Star Frontiers. I haven't played Traveler since it was published in little black booklets.
I hope they hire Arne Niklas Jansson (http://androidarts.com/misc_stuff.htm) to tweak the alien designs. I really liked the way he fixed the sillier anatomy.
I wonder if any of the Amazing Engine or Alternity settings will be revived.
Quote from: CRKrueger;989420Oh good, another classic IP snapped up by narrative guys.
For all their love of creative storytelling, they sure can't seem to make a setting, can they?
Funny how that works.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;989533I hope they hire Arne Niklas Jansson (http://androidarts.com/misc_stuff.htm) to tweak the alien designs. I really liked the way he fixed the sillier anatomy.
I wonder if any of the Amazing Engine or Alternity settings will be revived.
Thanks for bringing Arne's art to my attention, I really like his take on the Star Frontiers aliens as well.
Quote from: Dumarest;989301Yeah, I have Cryptworld; it's essentially 1st edition Chill under another name. When I get a chance to actually run it, I'd like to play a lighthearted Monster Chiller Horror Theater sort of campaign...
Count Floyd approves. Ooooh! Scary, Scary!
Quote from: colwebbsfmc;989752Count Floyd approves. Ooooh! Scary, Scary!
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Just watch out for Dr. Tongue and 3-D pancakes and maple syrup!
(SNL to me is the poor man's SCTV.)
Quote from: Ulairi;989535Funny how that works.
It's almost as if...but no...it can't be...that that they're GAMERS JUST LIKE US??!! Maybe they even played it and loved it.
Can't be true.
BTW on Twitter Mike Mearls says he's done a 5e hack of Star Frontiers.
Maybe DWD Studios will finally release Frontierspace? I consider that the spiritual successor of Space Frontiers.
Quote from: Voros;989884BTW on Twitter Mike Mearls says he's done a 5e hack of Star Frontiers.
That is cold comfort. Some guy on the internet says he has done a Star Frontiers hack for a rules set I don't like. Now if somebody announced a Classic Traveller hack for Star Frontiers, that would be news worth celebrating.
Quote from: DavetheLost;989930That is cold comfort. Some guy on the internet says he has done a Star Frontiers hack for a rules set I don't like. Now if somebody announced a Classic Traveller hack for Star Frontiers, that would be news worth celebrating.
I might actually take a look at that. Just to see how well it worked.
This just in:
https://mobile.twitter.com/fredhicks/status/905596212232978435
Deadly Fredly @fredhicks
"For an unapproved trademark application with no actual plans attached to it... man, that's some overreporting going on."
Quote from: DavetheLost;989930That is cold comfort. Some guy on the internet says he has done a Star Frontiers hack for a rules set I don't like. Now if somebody announced a Classic Traveller hack for Star Frontiers, that would be news worth celebrating.
All you'd really need to do is import the setting and use Traveller rules, no?
Quote from: Christopher Brady;989415Citation? I want to know how well Star Frontier was really doing.
According to the staff I talked to it was doing good enough that they had several projects in the works when Loraine axed it for Buck Rogers. Some of that was cobbled together into the Zebulons Guide book so it wouldnt be wasted work.
Quote from: Herne's Son;990029This just in:
https://mobile.twitter.com/fredhicks/status/905596212232978435
Deadly Fredly @fredhicks
"For an unapproved trademark application with no actual plans attached to it... man, that's some overreporting going on."
wha? So someone filed for a TM without permission?
Quote from: Omega;990153wha? So someone filed for a TM without permission?
Unapproved trademark just means the trademark hasn't been approved.
Quote from: Dumarest;990163Unapproved trademark just means the trademark hasn't been approved.
Yet. Sometimes it takes a while for it to happen, if ever.
Quote from: Dumarest;990077All you'd really need to do is import the setting and use Traveller rules, no?
Pretty much, I think. Do some quick write ups on the aliens, and they shouldn't be hard.
Quote from: DavetheLost;989930That is cold comfort. Some guy on the internet says he has done a Star Frontiers hack for a rules set I don't like. Now if somebody announced a Classic Traveller hack for Star Frontiers, that would be news worth celebrating.
Wow, you're so old school hardcore. Can I carry your bag of dice for you next time you grace a table with your presence?
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Quote from: Omega;990150According to the staff I talked to it was doing good enough that they had several projects in the works when Loraine axed it for Buck Rogers. Some of that was cobbled together into the Zebulons Guide book so it wouldnt be wasted work.
Which staff members were these?
I wish Evil Hat luck. Yet I'm not sure if it's a smart move. It's one of those IPs that some fans would by more for nostalgia than anything else. nostalgiacan be a strong selling point though popularity needs to be a key factor as well. Their is not many gamers I know who would go "man I really wish they would do a new Star Frontiers rpg". As well it will suffer competition from existing sci-fi rpgs as well.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;989909Maybe DWD Studios will finally release Frontierspace? I consider that the spiritual successor of Space Frontiers.
Coming soon. Check their blog and G+ pages. Players Handbook and GM Guide and an adventure are supposed to be released later this year. (We were playtesters for it.)
Funny how people and companies who've repeatedly given the impression they despise old-school RPGs end up making really shit reboots of old-school RPGs.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;989909Maybe DWD Studios will finally release Frontierspace? I consider that the spiritual successor of Star Frontiers.
As has been mentioned, there
is progress on this!
Quote from: RPGPundit;991413Funny how people and companies who've repeatedly given the impression they despise old-school RPGs end up making really shit reboots of old-school RPGs.
Maybe they're hung up on the rules?
Quote from: RPGPundit;991413Funny how people and companies who've repeatedly given the impression they despise old-school RPGs end up making really shit reboots of old-school RPGs.
Such as?
Quote from: RPGPundit;991413Funny how people and companies who've repeatedly given the impression they despise old-school RPGs end up making really shit reboots of old-school RPGs.
Citation needed.
Quote from: Voros;990395Can I carry your bag of dice for you next time you grace a table with your presence?
Sure. That would be Wednesday at 3PM Eastern. Expect a crowd, I usually get between 8 and 13.
Quote from: sureshot;990456I wish Evil Hat luck. Yet I'm not sure if it's a smart move. It's one of those IPs that some fans would by more for nostalgia than anything else. nostalgiacan be a strong selling point though popularity needs to be a key factor as well. Their is not many gamers I know who would go "man I really wish they would do a new Star Frontiers rpg". As well it will suffer competition from existing sci-fi rpgs as well.
My guess is most of the Star Frontiers fans either have their old games still, are using the materials hosted online at StarFrontiers.net or both. I like the game but a relaunch would have to have some serious value added beyond just reprinting to get me to shell out cash. Relaunching it with a new system would be heavilly dependant on the system.
But, my guess is that the situation is more that Evil Hat thinks "Star Frontiers" is a cool name for a line of RPG products.
Quote from: DavetheLost;991543"Star Frontiers" is a cool name for a line of RPG products.
Yes, it is a very cool name.
Quote from: DavetheLost;991543My guess is most of the Star Frontiers fans either have their old games still, are using the materials hosted online at StarFrontiers.net or both. I like the game but a relaunch would have to have some serious value added beyond just reprinting to get me to shell out cash. Relaunching it with a new system would be heavilly dependant on the system.
But, my guess is that the situation is more that Evil Hat thinks "Star Frontiers" is a cool name for a line of RPG products.
For me, if they choose Fate it's a non-starter.
Who knows, there might be a real Star Frontiers fan at Evil Hat who just wants to do right by the game. As I keep saying, I think the system is fine if uninspired and what is really needed is setting support. I'd probably shy away from Traveller style tool box stuff and give actual worlds and adventures. The reason is simple enough, I already have Traveller. Rather, give me strange new worlds, a bigger frontier with core world areas at least described and detailed. Let's have the racial home worlds of the Federation forming little clouds of civilization with vast uncharted tracts of space between them. I'd probably want to see a little more going on. We've got Sathar and Mechanon as outside threats but it wouldn't hurt to have mysterious advanced aliens, not go-like plot devices but something more in line with the Vorlons or Shadows from Babylon V, an inscrutable mystery lurking on the fringes of known space. Let's have a few weird mystery worlds that wouldn't be out of place on Star Trek. At some point I'd like to see a ginormous monster composed of Dralasites as individual cells. A mysterious generation ship full of mutants and the bombed out ruins of a nuclear war ravaged world would be musts for an eighties nostalgia trip.
I am taking a wait and see attitude with this. I have the original in pdf form so no hurry. If they do it right and clean up and add support to the old system it can work. If the story game it no.
Quote from: RPGPundit;991413Funny how people and companies who've repeatedly given the impression they despise old-school RPGs end up making really shit reboots of old-school RPGs.
Thats because they despise those old games and their version will show the unwashed masses why. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Omega;991995Thats because they despise those old games and their version will show the unwashed masses why. :rolleyes:
I don't see Star Frontiers as being 'old school'. Heck, some folks don't think 2E D&D is old school.
Quote from: Tetsubo;992232I don't see Star Frontiers as being 'old school'. Heck, some folks don't think 2E D&D is old school.
Some people don't think AD&D is old school.
:p
Quote from: Dumarest;992261Some people don't think AD&D is old school.
:p
Indeed, the real argument seems to be if Greyhawk (the OD&D supplement) is old school or not since it introduced things like differing hit dice for classes, different weapon damage, multi-classing, and worst of all, the thief class.
If it doesn't use the Man-to-man rules from Chainmail and a copy of Wilderness Survival it isn't old school. ;) Even the fantasy supplement in Chainmail is suspect.
I'll be making sure I have all the old material downloaded just to be on the safe side.
Quote from: DavetheLost;992554If it doesn't use the Man-to-man rules from Chainmail and a copy of Wilderness Survival it isn't old school. ;) Even the fantasy supplement in Chainmail is suspect.
As long as the binding holds up on my copy of H.G. Wells'
Little Wars, I'm holding off on getting into
Chainmail.
Quote from: Krimson;992606I'll be making sure I have all the old material downloaded just to be on the safe side.
Wise choice. I have that plus all of my original SF material I bought when it was released. But I am old.
Quote from: Baulderstone;992783As long as the binding holds up on my copy of H.G. Wells' Little Wars, I'm holding off on getting into Chainmail.
Baulderstone wins.
How does this work with all of the remastered material put out by DWD studios available for print through Lulu? Should people be scrambling to have them printed before a C&D notice comes?
Quote from: JeremyR;992473Indeed, the real argument seems to be if Greyhawk (the OD&D supplement) is old school or not since it introduced things like differing hit dice for classes, different weapon damage, multi-classing, and worst of all, the thief class.
Some were arguing OD&D wasnt "old school" since it used a d10.
Then people wonder why I despise the term.
Quote from: Gunslinger;992912How does this work with all of the remastered material put out by DWD studios available for print through Lulu? Should people be scrambling to have them printed before a C&D notice comes?
Selling it? That would be a violation of the agreement between the SF site and WOTC.
Quote from: CRKrueger;989420For all their love of creative storytelling, they sure can't seem to make a setting, can they?
don't forget all their complaining about how people who CAN write a better setting (or rules, or book in general) then get awards for doing so.
The problem with Evil Hat is that they seem too focused on trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to their core rules. No rules rpg will ever be perfect. Wasting time on making the perfect rpg means nothing else really comes out of the company. It reminds me of Guardians of Order and Dream Pod 9.
Is Yahtzee old school or does it use too many dice?
Quote from: Dumarest;993069Is Yahtzee old school or does it use too many dice?
Amusingly the RPG I'm working on has some mechanics inspired by Yahtzee. The comments about dice pools remind me to try and keep it from being buckets of dice. :D
Quote from: Krimson;993072Amusingly the RPG I'm working on has some mechanics inspired by Yahtzee. The comments about dice pools remind me to try and keep it from being buckets of dice. :D
I don't mind a handful of six-siders...literally ...but when they start to be more than I can hold in my hand, I kind of don't really want to play anymore. I remember playing Champions and some guy had like 12d6 for some power...every time he rolled , the game came to a standstill while he counted and doublechecked. Last time I played, I was the ref, and I set an 8d6 limit for anything...and even that got to be a bit much mainly because it resulted in every PC having at least one 8d6 power.
Quote from: Dumarest;993083I don't mind a handful of six-siders...literally ...but when they start to be more than I can hold in my hand, I kind of don't really want to play anymore. I remember playing Champions and some guy had like 12d6 for some power...every time he rolled , the game came to a standstill while he counted and doublechecked. Last time I played, I was the ref, and I set an 8d6 limit for anything...and even that got to be a bit much mainly because it resulted in every PC having at least one 8d6 power.
That is very useful information. Thank you. :)
Quote from: Krimson;993087That is very useful information. Thank you. :)
I was thinking that an RPG where you can get by just by taking the dice out of your Yahtzee set has some appeal! But then again, I've always liked games that use just one type of die (Traveller, The Fantasy Trip, GURPS, DC Heroes, and so on) or two (Flashing Blades, Heroes of Olympus, etc.). It's an easier sell for me even though I have all the oddball four-siders and the rest.
Quote from: Omega;992995Some were arguing OD&D wasnt "old school" since it used a d10.
Then people wonder why I despise the term.
Do these people realize that in the 0D&D days a d20 was numbered 0-9 twice?
Real old school gamers don't use dice. The ref just thinks of a number from one to ten and the players have to guess it.
Quote from: Dumarest;993242Real old school gamers don't use dice. The ref just thinks of a number from one to ten and the players have to guess it.
Frankly, Dumarest, this is insulting to real old school gaming. The range should be 1-100 so as to make the guessing much more difficult.
Quote from: Antiquation!;993269Frankly, Dumarest, this is insulting to real old school gaming. The range should be 1-100 so as to make the guessing much more difficult.
Not if you make an array with natural numbers along one axis and imaginary numbers along the other.
Back on topic.
EH doing Star Frontiers is about as appealing as WOTC doing Star Frontiers. IE: NOT.
Quote from: Antiquation!;993269Frankly, Dumarest, this is insulting to real old school gaming. The range should be 1-100 so as to make the guessing much more difficult.
You got me. I didn't start until 1981 when they dumbed it down for kids.
Quote from: Dumarest;989254Didn't they buy the name Chill and make a game that isn't really Chill at all? This will probably be the same thing.
Like I said, pretty sure it'll be just the name and nothing else.
Now I'm trying to think who I'd like to see do a new Star Frontiers.
FFG maybe, their full colour books are gorgeous and I don't hate the funky dice system. It might work for Star Frontiers although I would prefer something mechanically lighter.
Cubicle 7's Vortex system would be adaptable. SF always gave me a bit of the same vibe that Rocket Age has, no anti-gravity, etc.
I don't think Fate or d20/5e would be a good fit for SF.
Quote from: DavetheLost;993302Now I'm trying to think who I'd like to see do a new Star Frontiers.
FFG maybe, their full colour books are gorgeous and I don't hate the funky dice system. It might work for Star Frontiers although I would prefer something mechanically lighter.
Cubicle 7's Vortex system would be adaptable. SF always gave me a bit of the same vibe that Rocket Age has, no anti-gravity, etc.
That's an interesting thought. I've ran some DWAITAS adventures and that system is amazingly easy to run.
Quote from: DavetheLost;993302I don't think Fate or d20/5e would be a good fit for SF.
I'm doubting the Fate version will have anything I'd want to use unless there is a good amount of well written fluff about the setting. As for the latter, the races from Star Frontiers appeared in 2e Spelljammer, as well as d20 Future. If WoTC puts out Spelljammer material, likely in the form of Unearthed Arcana, there's a chance those races will appear. This Article (http://www.tribality.com/2014/10/04/star-frontiers-5e-conversion-part-1/) is kind of neat. High levels of technology exist in D&D ala The Barrier Peaks, Temple of the Frog, City of the Gods etc. The only thing keeping you from running Star Frontiers like games canonically in D&D is the fact that solar systems exist in crystal spheres floating in phlogiston. Of course with d20 Future, you don't have that problem. I think it would work fine with 5e, but I've run a lot of high tech games using various iterations of D&D.
Quote from: Omega;992996Selling it? That would be a violation of the agreement between the SF site and WOTC.
I believe the materials are available for reprint at cost similar to BFRPG and the creators of the remastered edition own DWD but do not profit from it. Sorry for the confusion.
I was just wondering how the legal ownership of the TM would affect existing fan contributions that are readily available for print or all of the past material available for download for free.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;991483Citation needed.
"Gamma World" D20.
Quote from: RPGPundit;994486"Gamma World" D20.
And the readers shuddered in collective horror. :eek:
DwD Studios' FrontierSpace Player's Handbook is out in pdf!
FrontierSpace Player's Handbook - DwD Studios | DriveThruRPG.com (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/222633/FrontierSpace-Players-Handbook)
Quote from: RPGPundit;994486"Gamma World" D20.
Oh, the Modern D20 game. Honestly, I'm not sure I can accept that, but I can see your point. For that one game.
But for the most part, heartbreakers are going to happen, I guess.
Quote from: 3rik;996386DwD Studios' FrontierSpace Player's Handbook is out in pdf!
FrontierSpace Player's Handbook - DwD Studios | DriveThruRPG.com (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/222633/FrontierSpace-Players-Handbook)
Can you tell us more about this? How does it relate to Star Frontiers? I looked at teh preview and like most DriveThru previews it is kind of short on the meat and potatos. Give me the elevator pitch.
Quote from: DavetheLost;996449Can you tell us more about this? How does it relate to Star Frontiers? I looked at teh preview and like most DriveThru previews it is kind of short on the meat and potatos. Give me the elevator pitch.
It's a story game:
QuoteAmong the stars in a distant galaxy there exists a region of densely populated habitable worlds. It is here your story begins, a place commonly called "the frontier" where people dwell and tales unfold.
Among the stars in a distant galaxy there exists a region of densely populated habitable worlds. It is here your story begins, a place commonly called "the frontier" where people dwell and tales unfold.
Sounds like the intro for the first season of the original Twilight Zone:
There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone.
Quote from: Biscuitician;996452It's a story game:
This? This is wrong. Google the game and you'll find out that it's not and it would take you less than a minute to realise that. It's a system that evolved out of Star Frontiers and is a fairly light percentile system and is very much a traditional RPG. Maybe take a look into Barebones Fantasy and Covert Ops too if you want to get a better idea of the system. It seems to have changed somewhat since those two came out but it's only a revision of the same rule set.
If simply having some marketing spiel with the word "story" in is enough to make something a story game then there is no meaningful distinction between "story game" and "roleplaying game" anymore.
Quote from: DavetheLost;996449Can you tell us more about this? How does it relate to Star Frontiers? I looked at teh preview and like most DriveThru previews it is kind of short on the meat and potatos. Give me the elevator pitch.
FrontierSpace was inspired by Star Frontiers. We were on the playtest. I'd say the game is "pretty crunchy" but is straightforward to understand. Think Traveller level, with a very different skill system. They split the game into a Player's Handbook and a GM's Guide, since it was getting something around 500 pages.
Any specific questions?
Quote from: Tod13;996482Any specific questions?
Can you tell us how much crunchier the rules are than in Covert Ops? In the previews it didn't look much crunchier than that.
Quote from: Biscuitician;996452It's a story game:
No. Having ran it during the playtest, I can definitively say FrontierSpace is
not a story game, and I can only guess at why you would think it is.
FrontierSpace does have the equivalent of "hero points", that lets characters get away with stuff that would normally fail. (We actually totally forgot about them while playing and ended up never using them.) That's about as close to story gaming as it gets. FrontierSpace is basically DwD Studios' D00-lite system redone as D00-some-crunch for sci-fi.
Quote from: Tod13;996486No. Having ran it during the playtest, I can definitively say StarFrontiers is not a story game, and I can only guess at why you would think it is.
Because he's having a tantrum that the game with shared storytelling mechanics, Dusk City Outlaws, was moved to Other Games. So he's going to start labeling other games Storygames in a series of site disrupting posts. ;)
Quote from: NinjaWeasel;996485Can you tell us how much crunchier the rules are than in Covert Ops? In the previews it didn't look much crunchier than that.
FrontierSpace has more situational/specific rules than Covert Ops. I feel the character backgrounds in FrontierSpace (the different alien species) are more distinct with greater variation in options and details than the Covert Ops backgrounds. I think they also fixed the Dexterity-as-uber-stat issue from Covert Ops.
It plays close to BareBones Fantasy, but feels a bit more constrained in play, because I felt I kept having to make sure I wasn't missing some written rule.
Quote from: CRKrueger;996487Because he's having a tantrum that the game with shared storytelling mechanics, Dusk City Outlaws, was moved to Other Games. So he's going to start labeling other games Storygames in a series of site disrupting posts. ;)
Ah. OK. Thanks. I like the "Other Games" category and often spend a lot of time there--there is usually less of the decent of threads into the same thread all the time--so I don't get the issue.
Relatedly...
I actually had issues explaining "Destiny" (what FrontierSpace calls their version of "hero points") to my players. My players are passively anti-story-game, in that they have no idea about the online politics, but have absolutely no desire to have characters that can do out-of-character things or define-the-world or anything like that. For them, they like the role-playing and figuring out problems within the limits of that setting's version of reality. And they like to roll dice. LOL
They had a lot of issues figuring out what do do with Destiny Points, even with a list of suggestions. The short version is Destiny guarantees success or at least not dying, allowing occasional cinematic excesses of play. (In particular, extra Destiny is granted to weaker characters to keep them alive.) For my players, it was too much of a change from the normal, more realistic, style we got from StarFrontiers (YMMV).
Quote from: NinjaWeasel;996485Can you tell us how much crunchier the rules are than in Covert Ops? In the previews it didn't look much crunchier than that.
Also, your mileage in the actual difference may vary.
I guess for me, I didn't realize that FrontierSpace was intentionally not supposed to be as lite as BareBones Fantasy. That's not my opinion, that's Bill and Larry talking. So I was expecting BareBones Science-Fiction and was surprised, so it was surprising and disconcerting.
I'd say if you're OK with Covert Ops and a little bit more crunch, or OK with Traveller, you'll be fine with FrontierSpace. (Reminder, the GM's Guide is IIRC just as long, or longer, than the Player's Handbook.)
Quote from: Tod13;996495I'd say if you're OK with Covert Ops and a little bit more crunch, or OK with Traveller, you'll be fine with FrontierSpace. (Reminder, the GM's Guide is IIRC just as long, or longer, than the Player's Handbook.)
I'm okay with Mongoose Traveller (either edition) so that sounds good to me.
When's the Gm guide coming out?
What is in it?
How does the game compare to Star Frontiers(pre-Zebulon), particularly with Star Frontiersman and Frontier Explorer added in to the equation?
Quote from: 3rik;996386DwD Studios' FrontierSpace Player's Handbook is out in pdf!
FrontierSpace Player's Handbook - DwD Studios | DriveThruRPG.com (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/222633/FrontierSpace-Players-Handbook)
That's awesome news! I've been waiting for this game for years; I feared it was vaporware.
Quote from: Bloodwolf;996697When's the Gm guide coming out?
The Referee's Handbook is in layout and they're saying a few weeks.
I've asked if Bill has a breakdown of what's in each book. Sounds like Player's book is character creation and basic skill/combat (except robot immunities) and Referee's book is more skills, space combat, and more situational rules.
ETA: Bill is going to do a public post of the table of contents of each book. I'll link to it here. Also, he said "I am trying to get it out before the end of October" but he is dependent on their art's progress.
FrontierSpace tables of contents.
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Thanks for the ToCs