Now, if you read these forums much, you know that I'm not really a fan of Savage Worlds and I'm especially not a fan of games that smear some setting over the top of the generic vanilla rules.
Enter Interface Zero
I'm still reading it, and might do a detailed real review later, but the short version: it doesn't smear the setting over the rules. Gunmetal Games has done a great job of making detailed, granular melee weapons, ranged weapons and armor (even power armor) while still fitting within the SW rules and (this is the important part) still being interesting. They modify the rules when they need to and don't cut and paste sections out of the SW book.
As far as the setting goes, think 21st century Cyberpunk. Elements of Transhumanism, and owing as much or more to Stephenson as Gibson, this manages to be current without being a transhumanism wankfest. No post-scarcity or singularities.
What about the neo-forgisms that seem to crawl into most RPG darlings like Savage Worlds?
Quote from: Interface Zero bookNo Means No!
Learn to say NO, and say it often. This is vital to the success of your game. Just because the team thinks they deserve 150k apiece for snatching some slag from a tyrannical megacorp doesn’t mean they should get it, and there are a few reasons why.
• Street Cred: Are the characters really that nova-hot? How long have they been freelancing? N00b ronin are exactly that; n00bs. They don’t necessarily have the experience or clout to up their earning power. They don’t get the types of gigs that LEET ronin do, because nobody trusts them. More importantly; nobody KNOWS them. A major league contractor isn’t just going to hand the characters a PRO run because they say they can get it done. She’ll do her research, find out what the runners have done, check the streets to see what their reputation is, and if the characters don’t cut it, they don’t get the work. Life’s a bitch, but them’s the breaks amigo.
• Fixed Rates: People have budgets, especially the guy footing the bill for a given mission. The contractor might not be authorized to pay the characters beyond a specific monetary amount, no matter how slick the team is; especially if he’s working as a liaison for a megacorp. The Mega’s don’t do anything if there isn’t a percentage in it. If a run hurts their bottom line, or a shadow team gets greedy, they’ll simply go elsewhere. It’s not like the
characters are the only game in town.
• Maintaining Control: No contractor in his right mind is going to let a shadow team fleece him. It’s a good way to get your rep trashed mano’. When word gets on the streets (and it will) that the contractor let a shadow team charge ridiculous rates for a gig, everyone is going to want that much cred. It’s bad for biz.
Oh no they didn't! A SW game where the characters aren't pulp superheroes(regardless of genre) and the players aren't all special snowflakes for whom the GM is just a trained monkey? Where the hell have these guys been the last ten fucking years.
This is a game that's inspired me to knuckle under and try to make Savage Worlds work for my group. Which considering I agree a great deal with Pundit when he says "Savage Worlds is Deadlands retarded brother." says a lot about Interface Zero.
I pre-ordered the IZ book because I've been waiting for cyberpunk-ish game for a system I am comfortable with and encouraged by Testubo's review. In the meantime they sent me the pdf version but I've not read it yet, proabably won't for a while.
It is also entirely possibly I don't run it but lend to someone else in my group to run. The lengths one has to go to avoid playing fantasy games these days :-)
Funny, I never used to preorder games before, and now in the space of a month between IZ and Icon's Villanomicon that's two preoders already. I guess the hook is the free pdf that comes with pre-orders. I really prefer read the actual book but having a pdf as well can be very handy.
Quote from: Soylent Green;412483I pre-ordered the IZ book because I've been waiting for cyberpunk-ish game for a system I am comfortable with and encouraged by Testubo's review. In the meantime they sent me the pdf version but I've not read it yet, proabably won't for a while.
It is also entirely possibly I don't run it but lend to someone else in my group to run. The lengths one has to go to avoid playing fantasy games these days :-)
Funny, I never used to preorder games before, and now in the space of a month between IZ and Icon's Villanomicon that's two preoders already. I guess the hook is the free pdf that comes with pre-orders. I really prefer read the actual book but having a pdf as well can be very handy.
Yeah Green Ronin does that, it has me buying all the SIFRP and DA stuff. It's a very effective marketing technique.
Hi!
This is David Jarvis, president of Gun Metal Games.
I'm happy you like Interface Zero, and thanks so much for your support!
We're all really proud of how IZ turned out, and plan on heavy support for the game!
thanks again!
From the character sheet, this looks pretty much the same as any other SW game, with cybertech added on and Ckrueger mentioned only gear and fluff changes. How have the rules been modified for a cyperpunk setting?
Quote from: Nicephorus;416472From the character sheet, this looks pretty much the same as any other SW game, with cybertech added on and Ckrueger mentioned only gear and fluff changes. How have the rules been modified for a cyperpunk setting?
Don't have it in front of me, but a couple things.
1. Gun combat is more deadly, no soak rolls.
2. A reputation system that lets you use your Street Cred to leverage certain things, with a penalty to your Rep if you fail.
3. Hacking rules
4. Cyberware rules
BTW more detailed guns and armor
is a rules modification for a cyberpunk setting.
This looks really cool. Thanks for the pointer.
Are the rules included in the book, or do I need a separate SW book?
Hi everyone,
We have some extensive hacking rules, programming rules, Street Cred rules and cyberware creation rules in the book. Combat is very deadly, as it should be for a cyberpunk game.
No soak rolls, you take a wound level based on how much damage was done over your Toughness, with a mandatory Vigor roll. Failure on the Vigor roll causes incapacitation. These are the rolls written in the Moscow Connection One-sheet written by Shane Hensley, the owner of Pinnacle Entertainment and creator of the Savage Worlds rules.
Also, there are rules for addiction when your characters use drugs in the game.
As for the Core SWEX rules, no we don't have them included. The game runs on the Savage Worlds engine.
The Street Cred/Rep rules look good. I personally think I'll use the stadard Soak/damage rules becasue I'm more interested in Hollywood style cyberpunk than the real deal, but that's just me.
Interface Zero is utterly boring, at least what i got from the beta release.
It does almost everything wrong what is normally good with Savage Worlds setting.
Oh, and they fuck with the rules where they shouldn't, eg:
Mess with the benny rules and some other core rules of SW.
Oh, and your character with cyberware can die from breaking a sweat.
And your characters are meant to be coporate hooker of sorts.
Heck, in wouldn't play/run that setting even if someone would pay me to.
CRKrueger, wtf are talking about?
About the "dying due to breaking a sweat" go read:
http://calebtheheretic.wordpress.com/
We tried to make the rules as modular as possible, so you can use whatever you like and drop the rest to get the game you want to play, so go for it!
Hollywood action-style cyberpunk can certainly be a blast, and really, the SWEX rules as written can still be pretty lethal.
Quote from: Phantom Black;416543Interface Zero is utterly boring, at least what i got from the beta release.
It does almost everything wrong what is normally good with Savage Worlds setting.
Oh, and they fuck with the rules where they shouldn't, eg:
Mess with the benny rules and some other core rules of SW.
Oh, and your character with cyberware can die from breaking a sweat.
And your characters are meant to be coporate hooker of sorts.
Heck, in wouldn't play/run that setting even if someone would pay me to.
CRKrueger, wtf are talking about?
About the "dying due to breaking a sweat" go read:
http://calebtheheretic.wordpress.com/
LOL.
If Gunmetal did what most every other SW game now has done, ie. use SWEX and slap some fur, chains, steamcannon, whatever on top, then IZ wouldn't be Cyberpunk, it would be the Matrix, where everyone is Neo, ie all other SW games except Solomon.
I wouldn't expect a SW fanboi to like this game, the fact that one doesn't is just a plus to me. Although Brownell gave it a 9, and he's a SW Evangelist, so they must have done something right.
The cyberware rules were revised from the "Bet Test." And yes, it WAS a BETA TEST. I received a TON of feedback based on those rules and revised the system accordingly.
You can no longer die from cybertrauma. Your cyberware can fail though.
I have absolutely no idea what you mean by "corporate hooker."
I wrote rules I felt were needed to capture the feel of the genre, and got permission to use others, but as I said previously, the rules are meant to be modular.
You don't have to use cyberware rules if you hate them.
You don't have to use the deadly rules that Shane Hensley wrote (not me) if you don't want.
I'm sorry you don't like the game.
Quote from: KenHR;416498This looks really cool. Thanks for the pointer.
Seriously? (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=18458) Why do I bother? ;)
Kidding aside, I *really* like Interface Zero.
Quote from: urizen;416547LOL.
Do you have anything serious to say about the points i make?
Or do you just want to directly confirm the critical points my blog entry states?
IZ is a former d20 setting and everyone who reads it will get that even from the beginning.
Even some diehard fans of SW dislike it for being slow, awful and clunky, because even after being savaged, the rules mindset is still d20, not Savage Worlds.
Whatever, last post in this topic.
@Urizen:
"corp hooker" = a runner that is an owned corporate bitch
You meddled and fiddled with some core rules of SW that shouldn't be touched at all.
You took away a Benny's effect, for example.
And i hate your attitude towards the gestating of gender and genetic design. My point about this is written in my blog.
I can't take a sci-fi setting/game serious that botches the science part so blatantly. Gender, sex and sexual orientation is not gestated by genetics alone, by giving that away you neglect decades of science, psychological research and much more scientific detail and just blatantly give away something that's just plain wrong.
Quote from: CRKrueger;416554If Gunmetal did what most every other SW game now has done, ie. use SWEX and slap some fur, chains, steamcannon, whatever on top, then IZ wouldn't be Cyberpunk, it would be the Matrix, where everyone is Neo, ie all other SW games except Solomon.
I wouldn't expect a SW fanboi to like this game, the fact that one doesn't is just a plus to me. Although Brownell gave it a 9, and he's a SW Evangelist, so they must have done something right.
Hey, I love Savage Worlds, but I think one of the best things Pinnacle has done is put Matthew Cutter in charge of Deadlands, since he seems to believe, as I do, that they took too much out of it.
And my Savage Worlds homebrews would send the Savage Worlds boards into hemorraging...
Quote from: Phantom Black;416582Do you have anything serious to say about the points i make?
Or do you just want to directly confirm the critical points my blog entry states?
IZ is a former d20 setting and everyone who reads it will get that even from the beginning.
Even some diehard fans of SW dislike it for being slow, awful and clunky, because even after being savaged, the rules mindset is still d20, not Savage Worlds.
Whatever, last post in this topic.
@Urizen:
"corp hooker" = a runner that is an owned corporate bitch
You meddled and fiddled with some core rules of SW that shouldn't be touched at all.
You took away a Benny's effect, for example.
And i hate your attitude towards the gestating of gender and genetic design. My point about this is written in my blog.
I can't take a sci-fi setting/game serious that botches the science part so blatantly. Gender, sex and sexual orientation is not gestated by genetics alone, by giving that away you neglect decades of science, psychological research and much more scientific detail and just blatantly give away something that's just plain wrong.
Quote from: urizen;416559The cyberware rules were revised from the "Bet Test." And yes, it WAS a BETA TEST. I received a TON of feedback based on those rules and revised the system accordingly.
You can no longer die from cybertrauma. Your cyberware can fail though.
I have absolutely no idea what you mean by "corporate hooker."
I wrote rules I felt were needed to capture the feel of the genre, and got permission to use others, but as I said previously, the rules are meant to be modular.
You don't have to use cyberware rules if you hate them.
You don't have to use the deadly rules that Shane Hensley wrote (not me) if you don't want.
I'm sorry you don't like the game.
Most of that stuff isn't in Interface Zero. I didn't read the Beta version, but bennies can be used on Vigor rolls, PCs are not assumed to answer to any one entity, even the Gritty rules have a sidebar that says "Of course, you can always use the regular rules if these are too harsh".
But that's kinda what happens when you argue your points from an outdated document.
Ok, i accept that.
What about the rest?
Quote from: Phantom Black;416607Ok, i accept that.
What about the rest?
The rest what?
The gender/genetics stuff is still in there. That doesn't bug me because I accept wonky science in my fiction all the time. It bugs you...okay, fair enough.
I have no idea what you mean by "It's a d20 setting and everyone that reads it knows it."
I've heard people alternately complain that it's too clunky and that it's too handwavey (especially in the Hacking rules) so that's six of one, half a dozen of the other.
I (and others) liked it. You (and others) didn't. It happens. But my impressions came from the actual book and yours came from a Beta test that was apparently altered a fair bit before the actual book was released.
It's been a d20 setting and all of that itsy-bitsy-microsim-style-stuff is in there. Interface Zero tries to emulate d20's style in respect how to things are handled. It's way too granular than it should be for a Savage Worlds setting.
Just my impression.
Quote from: Phantom Black;416636It's been a d20 setting and all of that itsy-bitsy-microsim-style-stuff is in there. Interface Zero tries to emulate d20's style in respect how to things are handled. It's way too granular than it should be for a Savage Worlds setting.
Just my impression.
I appreciate your feedback, I really do, but to discuss this more, I need some clarification, please.
What exactly is so granular about the Savage Worlds version of Interface Zero?
How is it handling/mimicking D20's style?
I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. One of the line editors for Pinnacle edited the mechanics, and apparently he didn't see it either.
I've got the D20 version printed out and ready to read. I just haven't gotten to it yet. So many gaming books, so little time...
Quote from: urizen;416659I appreciate your feedback, I really do, but to discuss this more, I need some clarification, please.
What exactly is so granular about the Savage Worlds version of Interface Zero?
How is it handling/mimicking D20's style?
I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. One of the line editors for Pinnacle edited the mechanics, and apparently he didn't see it either.
What i got from the Beta was that every subsystem i read about (Cyberware & Hacking) was even more complicated than what was introduced by PEG in their Sci-Fi toolkits. Next thing was the races/species entry... seemed like cherrypicking to me. At least some of them. Humans get the shaft, balance-wise.
Yeah, and just because some line editor didn't de-regulate the waterhead of rules doesn't mean it's correct.
It's handling/mimicking d20 still because so many things are still governed by rules, not fluffwise.
You use rules where there should be none. Actually... 300(!) pages is way too much for a Savage Worlds setting, let alone the layout isn't done the way i would expect it to be and as i'm used to from other SW settings.
To me it just looks as if you'd taken the d20 version and filed off the d20 logo and slapped on the SW-logo.
Quote from: Phantom Black;416752What i got from the Beta was that every subsystem i read about (Cyberware & Hacking) was even more complicated than what was introduced by PEG in their Sci-Fi toolkits. Next thing was the races/species entry... seemed like cherrypicking to me. At least some of them. Humans get the shaft, balance-wise.
Yeah, and just because some line editor didn't de-regulate the waterhead of rules doesn't mean it's correct.
It's handling/mimicking d20 still because so many things are still governed by rules, not fluffwise.
You use rules where there should be none. Actually... 300(!) pages is way too much for a Savage Worlds setting, let alone the layout isn't done the way i would expect it to be and as i'm used to from other SW settings.
To me it just looks as if you'd taken the d20 version and filed off the d20 logo and slapped on the SW-logo.
And you'd be very, very wrong by making the assumption that I just slapped a Savage Worlds logo on the book.
I wrote rules where they were needed; Hacking, cyberware, Street Cred.
So what if it's 300 pages. big deal, we had a lot to write about. Go look at the page count for Iron Dynasty, by reality Blurs, it's big too.
Look at the 3 core books you need for Hellfrost, they add up to over 300 pages as well. I just put all of my information in a single book.
Just because
YOU think it's too big, doesn't make it true.
The hacking rules are simple. You make a roll to get through the firewall, you make a second roll to do what you need to within the computer system. Wow. Most hacks take 2 rolls. If you get into combat, it's just like the combat system in Savage Worlds.
Man, I know, that's SO complex right?
The bottom line here; You're an asshat. You'll never like the book, so I'm just not going to bother trying to persuade you otherwise.
I don't care about Iron Dynasty or Hellfrost. They're both way too much.
Yes, i think your rules are more complicated that those of the toolkits.
Yes i do think you made 300 pages is too much for a setting book.
Anyway, just my oppinion. I won't buy it, i won't play it. I just resent the overly positive reactions it undeservedly so gets. That's all.
Quote from: Phantom Black;416824Anyway, just my oppinion. I won't buy it, i won't play it. I just resent the overly positive reactions it undeservedly so gets. That's all.
That's just disturbing.
Especially when it's based off of a page count and a beta document.
Clarification: You "resenting" it is disturbing. Not buying it and not playing it? Whatever.
Quote from: CRKrueger;412471Oh no they didn't! A SW game where the characters aren't pulp superheroes(regardless of genre) and the players aren't all special snowflakes for whom the GM is just a trained monkey? Where the hell have these guys been the last ten fucking years.
I don't mean this in a douchy way, but how many SW settings have you read? I own several and none of them are like this; the pulp superhero thing didn't last beyond the first few settings. The Gm a trained monkey? When and where? Hellfrost? Necropolis? Realms of Cthulhu? Runepunk? Perhaps the only one I've read that fits your description is Shaintar. But that setting is rubbish and the book is only good to mine ideas from; at least it was until Hellfrost and the Fantasy Companion came out and did it all better.
That being said, Interface Zero is indeed good. But I really don't see it being a huge departure from the SW settings of the last two years or perhaps more.
-=Grim=-
Also: Savage World of Solomon Kane is almost 350 pages. And it does not feel "too big" for a setting book. Yes it contains the SW rules in the first part, but A LOT of that book is pure setting, adventures, and setting-specific rules.
I don't think I've ever heard someone say that a book has TOO many pages, especially for $40 (or $15 for the .pdf). Too many $40 books nowadays have less of a page count. I think it's awesome to have so much in the book. What about a high page count bothers you? Genuine question. 'Cuz I've never heard that complaint before. And I've been gaming since 1983 or 1984.
-=Grim=-
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;416827That's just disturbing.
Especially when it's based off of a page count and a beta document.
Clarification: You "resenting" it is disturbing. Not buying it and not playing it? Whatever.
If there's no sample except the Beta, how should i be able to judge otherwise?
Would you buy something just for the sake of finding out it's mostly the same work you criticized in forefront?
Honestly?
p.s.: I don't actually even know wether there's a sample of the final setting, because i was so bummed and outright annoyed by the beta. I was, because i had printed it and spiralbound it because i had planned to feedback it, actually. I forced myself through it although IMAO it was so bad i finally tossed it aside from frustration when i had arrived at the species section. THAT is why i'm resenting IZ.
Quote from: Phantom Black;416887If there's no sample except the Beta, how should i be able to judge otherwise?
Would you buy something just for the sake of finding out it's mostly the same work you criticized in forefront?
Honestly?
p.s.: I don't actually even know wether there's a sample of the final setting, because i was so bummed and outright annoyed by the beta. I was, because i had printed it and spiralbound it because i had planned to feedback it, actually. I forced myself through it although IMAO it was so bad i finally tossed it aside from frustration when i had arrived at the species section. THAT is why i'm resenting IZ.
Again, you read the Beta, didn't like it, don't want to buy the final product. Okay, that's cool. Even though other people have specifically pointed out stuff that you hated from the Beta and said "Dude, that's not anywhere in the final version"...not wanting to buy the final version is still fine.
Harboring resentment because other people like what you didn't? Unhealthy.
I read D&D 4e. I didn't like it. It completely outsells any RPG I've ever enjoyed playing. I don't resent its success...I just play the stuff I do like and ignore it.
I think BASH Ultimate Edition is superior to ICONS in every way, but ICONS outsells it and has a crap ton more third party support...I don't harbor resentment over it. I shrug, move on, and share my opinions of the two when the subject comes out.
I resent you not resenting 4th edition D&D. Woo!
:p
-=Grim=-
This might sound like a strange question, but how easy do you think it would be to port IZ to a system like Cortex? I know Cortex and SW share a few similarities, but I'm wondering how much work it might take to get the feel right, and just how married to the setting the rules tweaks are.
Thanks!