Quote from: KenHR;416498This looks really cool.  Thanks for the pointer.

Seriously? Why do I bother?

Kidding aside, I *really* like Interface Zero.

Quote from: urizen;416547LOL.

Do you have anything serious to say about the points i make?
Or do you just want to directly confirm the critical points my blog entry states?

IZ is a former d20 setting and everyone who reads it will get that even from the beginning.

Even some diehard fans of SW dislike it for being slow, awful and clunky, because even after being savaged, the rules mindset is still d20, not Savage Worlds.

Whatever, last post in this topic.

@Urizen:
"corp hooker" = a runner that is an owned corporate bitch

You meddled and fiddled with some core rules of SW that shouldn't be touched at all.
You took away a Benny's effect, for example.

And i hate your attitude towards the gestating of gender and genetic design. My point about this is written in my blog.
I can't take a sci-fi setting/game serious that botches the science part so blatantly. Gender, sex and sexual orientation is not gestated by genetics alone, by giving that away you neglect decades of science, psychological research and much more scientific detail and just blatantly give away something that's just plain wrong.

Quote from: CRKrueger;416554If Gunmetal did what most every other SW game now has done, ie.  use SWEX and slap some fur, chains, steamcannon, whatever on top, then IZ wouldn't be Cyberpunk, it would be the Matrix, where everyone is Neo, ie all other SW games except Solomon.

I wouldn't expect a SW fanboi to like this game, the fact that one doesn't is just a plus to me.  Although Brownell gave it a 9, and he's a SW Evangelist, so they must have done something right.

Hey, I love Savage Worlds, but I think one of the best things Pinnacle has done is put Matthew Cutter in charge of Deadlands, since he seems to believe, as I do, that they took too much out of it.

And my Savage Worlds homebrews would send the Savage Worlds boards into hemorraging...

Quote from: Phantom Black;416582Do you have anything serious to say about the points i make?
Or do you just want to directly confirm the critical points my blog entry states?

IZ is a former d20 setting and everyone who reads it will get that even from the beginning.

Even some diehard fans of SW dislike it for being slow, awful and clunky, because even after being savaged, the rules mindset is still d20, not Savage Worlds.

Whatever, last post in this topic.

@Urizen:
"corp hooker" = a runner that is an owned corporate bitch

You meddled and fiddled with some core rules of SW that shouldn't be touched at all.
You took away a Benny's effect, for example.

And i hate your attitude towards the gestating of gender and genetic design. My point about this is written in my blog.
I can't take a sci-fi setting/game serious that botches the science part so blatantly. Gender, sex and sexual orientation is not gestated by genetics alone, by giving that away you neglect decades of science, psychological research and much more scientific detail and just blatantly give away something that's just plain wrong.

Quote from: urizen;416559The cyberware rules were revised from the "Bet Test." And yes, it WAS a BETA TEST. I received a TON of feedback based on those rules and revised the system accordingly.

You can no longer die from cybertrauma. Your cyberware can fail though.

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by "corporate hooker."

I wrote rules I felt were needed to capture the feel of the genre, and got permission to use others, but as I said previously, the rules are meant to be modular.

You don't have to use cyberware rules if you hate them.

You don't have to use the deadly rules that Shane Hensley wrote (not me) if you don't want.

I'm sorry you don't like the game.

Most of that stuff isn't in Interface Zero. I didn't read the Beta version, but bennies can be used on Vigor rolls, PCs are not assumed to answer to any one entity, even the Gritty rules have a sidebar that says "Of course, you can always use the regular rules if these are too harsh".

But that's kinda what happens when you argue your points from an outdated document.

Ok, i accept that.
What about the rest?

Quote from: Phantom Black;416607Ok, i accept that.
What about the rest?

The rest what?

The gender/genetics stuff is still in there. That doesn't bug me because I accept wonky science in my fiction all the time. It bugs you...okay, fair enough.

I have no idea what you mean by "It's a d20 setting and everyone that reads it knows it."

I've heard people alternately complain that it's too clunky and that it's too handwavey (especially in the Hacking rules) so that's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

I (and others) liked it. You (and others) didn't. It happens. But my impressions came from the actual book and yours came from a Beta test that was apparently altered a fair bit before the actual book was released.

It's been a d20 setting and all of that itsy-bitsy-microsim-style-stuff is in there. Interface Zero tries to emulate d20's style in respect how to things are handled. It's way too granular than it should be for a Savage Worlds setting.
Just my impression.

Quote from: Phantom Black;416636It's been a d20 setting and all of that itsy-bitsy-microsim-style-stuff is in there. Interface Zero tries to emulate d20's style in respect how to things are handled. It's way too granular than it should be for a Savage Worlds setting.
Just my impression.

I appreciate your feedback, I really do, but to discuss this more, I need some clarification, please.


What exactly is so granular about the Savage Worlds version of Interface Zero?

How is it handling/mimicking D20's style?

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. One of the line editors for Pinnacle edited the mechanics, and apparently he didn't see it either.

I've got the D20 version printed out and ready to read. I just haven't gotten to it yet. So many gaming books, so little time...

Quote from: urizen;416659I appreciate your feedback, I really do, but to discuss this more, I need some clarification, please.


What exactly is so granular about the Savage Worlds version of Interface Zero?

How is it handling/mimicking D20's style?

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. One of the line editors for Pinnacle edited the mechanics, and apparently he didn't see it either.

What i got from the Beta was that every subsystem i read about (Cyberware & Hacking) was even more complicated than what was introduced by PEG in their Sci-Fi toolkits. Next thing was the races/species entry... seemed like cherrypicking to me. At least some of them. Humans get the shaft, balance-wise.

Yeah, and just because some line editor didn't de-regulate the waterhead of rules doesn't mean it's correct.

It's handling/mimicking d20 still because so many things are still governed by rules, not fluffwise.
You use rules where there should be none. Actually... 300(!) pages is way too much for a Savage Worlds setting, let alone the layout isn't done the way i would expect it to be and as i'm used to from other SW settings.

To me it just looks as if you'd taken the d20 version and filed off the d20 logo and slapped on the SW-logo.

Quote from: Phantom Black;416752What i got from the Beta was that every subsystem i read about (Cyberware & Hacking) was even more complicated than what was introduced by PEG in their Sci-Fi toolkits. Next thing was the races/species entry... seemed like cherrypicking to me. At least some of them. Humans get the shaft, balance-wise.

Yeah, and just because some line editor didn't de-regulate the waterhead of rules doesn't mean it's correct.

It's handling/mimicking d20 still because so many things are still governed by rules, not fluffwise.
You use rules where there should be none. Actually... 300(!) pages is way too much for a Savage Worlds setting, let alone the layout isn't done the way i would expect it to be and as i'm used to from other SW settings.

To me it just looks as if you'd taken the d20 version and filed off the d20 logo and slapped on the SW-logo.

And you'd be very, very wrong by making the assumption that I just slapped a Savage Worlds logo on the book.

I wrote rules where they were needed; Hacking, cyberware, Street Cred.

So what if it's 300 pages. big deal, we had a lot to write about. Go look at the page count for Iron Dynasty, by reality Blurs, it's big too.

Look at the 3 core books you need for Hellfrost, they add up to over 300 pages as well. I just put all of my information in a single book.

Just because YOU think it's too big, doesn't make it true.

The hacking rules are simple. You make a roll to get through the firewall, you make a second roll to do what you need to within the computer system. Wow. Most hacks take 2 rolls. If you get into combat, it's just like the combat system in Savage Worlds.

Man, I know, that's SO complex right?

The bottom line here; You're an asshat. You'll never like the book, so I'm just not going to bother trying to persuade you otherwise.

I don't care about Iron Dynasty or Hellfrost. They're both way too much.
Yes, i think your rules are more complicated that those of the toolkits.
Yes i do think you made 300 pages is too much for a setting book.

Anyway, just my oppinion. I won't buy it, i won't play it. I just resent the overly positive reactions it undeservedly so gets. That's all.

Quote from: Phantom Black;416824Anyway, just my oppinion. I won't buy it, i won't play it. I just resent the overly positive reactions it undeservedly so gets. That's all.

That's just disturbing.

Especially when it's based off of a page count and a beta document.

Clarification: You "resenting" it is disturbing. Not buying it and not playing it? Whatever.

Quote from: CRKrueger;412471Oh no they didn't!  A SW game where the characters aren't pulp superheroes(regardless of genre) and the players aren't all special snowflakes for whom the GM is just a trained monkey?  Where the hell have these guys been the last ten fucking years.

I don't mean this in a douchy way, but how many SW settings have you read? I own several and none of them are like this; the pulp superhero thing didn't last beyond the first few settings. The Gm a trained monkey? When and where? Hellfrost? Necropolis? Realms of Cthulhu? Runepunk? Perhaps the only one I've read that fits your description is Shaintar. But that setting is rubbish and the book is only good to mine ideas from; at least it was until Hellfrost and the Fantasy Companion came out and did it all better.

That being said, Interface Zero is indeed good. But I really don't see it being a huge departure from the SW settings of the last two years or perhaps more.

-=Grim=-