TheRPGSite

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What does this have to do with World of Dungeons? WoD has binary outcome resolution. Success and failure.

It's not a "reverse RPG". It's a story dice-game, not an RPG at all.

On another note, I've converted some of the World of Darkness games to Big Eyes Small Mouth 1E.

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Ah, World of Darkness. Well that makes more sense.

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Didn't you already start another thread dealing with this exact same non-rpg, vaguely story system idea just yesterday right here? -> https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?41524-try-Reverse-RPG-system

Don't see the point of a separate thread to explore the same concept, but claiming that it includes all "WoD" worlds, cuz...of course it does, its a non-game system where you just roll a single d6 then wildly and subjectively interpret the roll to make something up based on how high you roll, without any rules or guidelines other than "High = Good; Low = No so good; make ANYTHING up as you will".

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This argument is so reducted. Stop being a reductivist.

I don't know what is being reducted.

When they take out your ducts and put in new ones.

People who enjoy it to the point of being fans of having their ductwork removed and news ones inserted are "reductivists". They're pretty gross imo.

So should we make this thread useful, or go with the spirit of the OP and reduct this entire thread?

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Quote from: Antiquation!;1116958Yes.

But yes to what?

Quote from: Snowman0147;1116962But yes to what?

If you have to ask, you probably need to be reducted.

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Quote from: Snowman0147;1116900I don't know what is being reducted.

This. Essentially storytelling with a really simplistic and ambiguous dice oracle system. Universalis tried this many a year ago with a bidding system.

QuoteAn example vampire game using the Reverse RPG system, if you look carfully you may be surprised its an RPG, but RP is about the story & charactors NOT mechanics, now if you add Dice to an RP you get a game RPG.

The idea is you create the situation in the form of a narative, then roll for the starring charactors on a set of dice, then taking the results of the rolls write a new situation in the form of a narative AND repeat. in effect you are crateing/playing the narrative that fits .

The idea is charactors dont have stats, instead its the narative creation that uses a set of dice to determin what happens.

the Game can be solo, or multiplayer. You can use a player DM but not required who tries to guide play to a story(it realy is fun to trying to guide). mostly the game is goaless & can last 5 mins or 5 days, you can get wacky things happening with the dice like all 6s rolled.

each D6 rolled will show the intensity of type it represents (eg red blood thirst), you roll all D6s and then create a short or long narative to fit with all D6 intensities rolled.

before play begins determin how many D6s are to used and what they represent, as an example I will do a general set of dice for a basic game the first Black D6 is for Combat, the second green D6 is for travel, the third red D6 is for bloodthirst, fourth blue D6 is for comunication, fifth white D6 is for stealth, yellow D6 for Romance. So that gives us 6 D6s to use every turn. you then creat the start narative, where you begin and whoes there.

the first player rolls all 6 D6s, then invents a narative that uses all D6s. each D6 has an intensity EG you roll a D6 for battle you get a 2, so its a simple verbal rant maybe. you roll a D6 for romance you get a 5, so the charactors throw arms around each other and give a kiss or but flowers on the spur of the moment from a passing saleman.then the next player repeats by rolling the 6 D6s then invents a narative that follows the last, and that uses all D6s. after all players have rolled if your using a playerDM then they roll the 6 D6s then invents a narative that follows the last but tries to follow a main story line.

Here is a better idea.

• Attribute + Skill + Spec - Modifiers = Dice Pool
• Stamina 2 + Athletics 3 + Running - 2 = 4
• Manipulation 3 + Persuasion 3 + Fast Talk + 1 = 8 (simply because the target had a busy day and isn't really paying attention all that much to the fine details of the deal your making)

Combat dice pool is;

• Attribute + Skill + Spec - Defense - Weapon Penalty = Dice Pool
• Dexterity 3 + Weaponry 2 + Knives - 3 - 0 = 3
• Strength 3 + Weaponry 2 + Swords - 3 - 2 = 1 (cause great swords have weapon penalty of 2)

To calculate damage;

• Weapon + Successes of the attack roll - Armor = Total Damage
• 1L + 1 - 1 = 1L (knife attack)
• 4L + 1 -1 = 4L (great sword attack)

There I fixed it for you guys and it didn't take much effort for it.  Plus everyone can be resolved in one simple roll.  Even combat for in World of Darkness it takes four rolls to get through one single attack.  You get this nice and sleek single roll that is better than Chronicles of Darkness 2E as large weapons actually effects your use of them instead of reducing your initiative which doesn't make any since.  Why would a sniper rifle need to worry about initiative when it is a one shot one kill weapon?  -2 to attacks with a great sword makes more sense since it is a heavier weapon than say a knife and requires more effort to use while the damage pay load is very nice to have.  The knife is zero penalty to use because it is very light, easy to use, but it is balance out by its damage payload of +1 which is three less than great sword.  In a game where you need one sux to do damage that knife will hit more often, but it will never have the pay off that a great sword will have.  Likewise while your whiffing most of the time with the great sword when you do hit your enemy may not survive the cut.  

Now just remove the conditions, tilts, and beats.  Now you have a easy rules light game that you can run without wasting anyone's time.  I could toss out other things as Onyx Path and White Wolf love making bullshit mechanics that weighs down the game.  I really could, but some of you Vampire fans may bitch about it so I will stop it for now.

I'm not big on this whole rpg vs storygame divide (although I do have a personal preference for traditional games, most things Pundit would call storygames I consider a subset of RPGs), but even I can see that Reverse RPG is literally just cooperative storytelling with a random element.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1116956So should we make this thread useful, or go with the spirit of the OP and reduct this entire thread?

Make this thread useful again!

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1116995Make this thread useful again!

Okay, well in terms of alternate systems for World of Darkness... somewhere deep in my old files I have a WoD mod for 3e's d20 Modern rules. I'll see if I can find it and, if I can I'll put a link here.

I also have a top-to-bottom rebuild of the Storyteller system I generally refer to as "White Book Mage" (vs. Purple or Blue Book Mage) in reference to the way I put printed versions into white binders for my players. I can put a link to that here too if people are interested.

I believe I could make a much better WOD game using HERO 6th edition. There would be no long lists of powers to memorize. Powers and magic would be consistent.

Quote from: trechriron;1117004I believe I could make a much better WOD game using HERO 6th edition. There would be no long lists of powers to memorize. Powers and magic would be consistent.

I could do the same, but with BESM 1E.

Let's both do this! You do HERO and I'll do BESM!

Gurps Vampire.
BESM had a vampire book that could be used as a foundation for a WOD setting.
CP 2020 has its Nights Edge techno-horror setting that could be adapted to WOD or Shadowrun.

I think you are all missing the point of the thread. Let's please try to keep it on-topic.

Well, I think my d20 version is lost to the aether of having gone through several computers since I wrote it (probably not even in Word) as I did it for a short-lived campaign back in 2005-6 and had gone back to the regular rules by 2007 and house-ruled from there.

Here's a link to a PDF of my completely rebuilt "White Book" Mage rules though (it includes how to build Vampires, Werewolves, Wraiths, etc. into it), last updated in August of 2013 for those who care.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8uzbbLvQJOLRWtSaVU4M3A5M0E (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8uzbbLvQJOLRWtSaVU4M3A5M0E)

Quote from: Snowman0147;1116992Here is a better idea.

• Attribute + Skill + Spec - Modifiers = Dice Pool
• Stamina 2 + Athletics 3 + Running - 2 = 4
• Manipulation 3 + Persuasion 3 + Fast Talk + 1 = 8 (simply because the target had a busy day and isn't really paying attention all that much to the fine details of the deal your making)

Combat dice pool is;

• Attribute + Skill + Spec - Defense - Weapon Penalty = Dice Pool
• Dexterity 3 + Weaponry 2 + Knives - 3 - 0 = 3
• Strength 3 + Weaponry 2 + Swords - 3 - 2 = 1 (cause great swords have weapon penalty of 2)

To calculate damage;

• Weapon + Successes of the attack roll - Armor = Total Damage
• 1L + 1 - 1 = 1L (knife attack)
• 4L + 1 -1 = 4L (great sword attack)

There I fixed it for you guys and it didn't take much effort for it.  Plus everyone can be resolved in one simple roll.  Even combat for in World of Darkness it takes four rolls to get through one single attack.  You get this nice and sleek single roll that is better than Chronicles of Darkness 2E as large weapons actually effects your use of them instead of reducing your initiative which doesn't make any since.  Why would a sniper rifle need to worry about initiative when it is a one shot one kill weapon?  -2 to attacks with a great sword makes more sense since it is a heavier weapon than say a knife and requires more effort to use while the damage pay load is very nice to have.  The knife is zero penalty to use because it is very light, easy to use, but it is balance out by its damage payload of +1 which is three less than great sword.  In a game where you need one sux to do damage that knife will hit more often, but it will never have the pay off that a great sword will have.  Likewise while your whiffing most of the time with the great sword when you do hit your enemy may not survive the cut.  

Now just remove the conditions, tilts, and beats.  Now you have a easy rules light game that you can run without wasting anyone's time.  I could toss out other things as Onyx Path and White Wolf love making bullshit mechanics that weighs down the game.  I really could, but some of you Vampire fans may bitch about it so I will stop it for now.

If you wanna reduce die rolls why not just remove Dice Pools instead of reducing them through modifiers? You could turn all ability values into modifiers (starting at 0 instead of 1) and use a single d10.

Task Resolution
Roll 1d10 +Total Modifiers (Ability+Difficulty) = Success Number

Success Number:
0* = Failure
1-2 = Partial Success
3-4 = Complete Success
5+ = Critical Success
*Additionally, a natural result of 1, along with a Success Number of 0, indicates a Critical Failure

Ability Modifiers
Rank (Attribute/Skill):
Low/Untrained = 0
Average/Skilled = 1
High/Expert = 2
Superior/Master = 3
Amazing/Grandmaster = 4

Specialist +1

Difficulty Modifier
Effortless = 0
Easy = -2
Average = -4
Difficult = -6
Challenging = -8
Formidable = -10
Daunting = -12
Near-Impossible = -14

Quote from: Antiquation!;1117071I think you are all missing the point of the thread. Let's please try to keep it on-topic.

You mean having it reducted? :p

Quote from: VisionStorm;1117098If you wanna reduce die rolls why not just remove Dice Pools instead of reducing them through modifiers? You could turn all ability values into modifiers (starting at 0 instead of 1) and use a single d10.

Task Resolution
Roll 1d10 +Total Modifiers (Ability+Difficulty) = Success Number

Success Number:
0* = Failure
1-2 = Partial Success
3-4 = Complete Success
5+ = Critical Success
*Additionally, a natural result of 1, along with a Success Number of 0, indicates a Critical Failure

Ability Modifiers
Rank (Attribute/Skill):
Low/Untrained = 0
Average/Skilled = 1
High/Expert = 2
Superior/Master = 3
Amazing/Grandmaster = 4

Specialist +1

Difficulty Modifier
Effortless = 0
Easy = -2
Average = -4
Difficult = -6
Challenging = -8
Formidable = -10
Daunting = -12
Near-Impossible = -14

Oh I agree that my system is far better with its roll down d20 mechanics.  Still WoD fans love the dice pool for some reason.

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Quote from: Snowman0147;1117103Oh I agree that my system is far better with its roll down d20 mechanics.  Still WoD fans love the dice pool for some reason.

I actually kinda like dice pool mechanics, though I like d20+Mod mechanics better. But dice pool are number 2–if I'm gonna roll multiple dice anyways, I'd rather roll a bucket of d6s al la Shadowrun and count the successes. Though, part of the fun of dice pool systems is rolling multiple dice. If you reduce (or reduct?) them through roll difficulty rather than using test thresholds (# of successes need for full success) you not only reduce (reduct!) that fun, but you also mess with the die mechanic, cuz then characters with no training and only 1 die already would get 0 or negative dice.

So might as well eliminate dice pools and replace them with some sort fixed roll mechanic (like Roll+Mod or Roll Under) instead of reducing dice.

Could do it with the Talislanta/Omega/Omni rules...

Average stat for a humans is 0. Stats can range from -5 to +5 for maximum human range.

Skills are flat ranks modified by linked Stat.

Stat+ Skill + d20 = (Consult the One Table)

One Table To Rule Them All

0 or less Critical Failure: the attempted action fails miserably, resulting in additional negative consequences of some sort (GM's ruling based on the intent of the action and prevailing circumstances).

1-5 Failure: the action fails to achieve the stated intent.

6-10 Partial Success: the action is moderately successful, and achieves some of the desired intent (such as half-damage from an attack).

11-19 Success: the action achieves the desired result.

20+ Critical Success: the action is even more successful than intended, achieving the stated intent and yielding additional benefits of some sort. The GM determines the additional results based on the circumstances (Critical Hit in combat).

You have degrees of success. You have GM arbitration (where you can list whatever environmental/circumstantial bonuses/penalties in the rules). You have Crits and Fumbles. All you need to do is delineate how Disciplines modify the established stats and task-resolution if at all.

Combat is Opposed or Static depending on if you're actively defending or attacking. You can make damage a static rating. So this would be one-roll results (unless it's an opposed check).

It's *really* easy.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1117071I think you are all missing the point of the thread. Let's please try to keep it on-topic.

reduction? :D

heh-heh. Honestly I can see what the OP was aiming for. But it is so far removed from a game its not even a storygame. Its just storytelling with a maybee oracle.