With most of the talk around here about D&D and the fantasy genre, it got me to thinking just how much I like fantasy compared to some of the other genres. I made a list of my top five.
1. Space Opera (Star Wars)
2. Super Heroes (DCH/MSH)
3. Modern/Spy (d20 Modern)
4. Post-Apocalyptic (Gamma World)
5. Fantasy (D&D)
I was kind of surprised it landed at #5, but it's a fair assessment. I grew up on Star Wars and G.I.JOE. I have been reading comics for 30 years, so supers have always been one of my favorite genres. I like the gonzo of Gamma World. I wasn't into fantasy as a kid, having never read Tolkien, Howard, etc. I love Howard now, but it wasn't engrained in my brain at a young age.
Is there anybody else here that has similar views or maybe I'm just very much in a niche minority of gamers.
1. Superhero (ICONS, MSH)
2. Post-Apocalypse (Bounty Hunters of the Atomic Wastelands, Gamma World)
3. Space Opera (Bullgdogs!, Star Wars D6)
Not sure I have a clear 4 and 5. I like modern and near-future stuff. I enjoy a good western though those games don't come around that often.
So no, you are not alone, just ridiculously outnumbered.
No, you are not a minority of one, there are at least two of us. Right Now, and it has been for a while, I'm running Traveller, which is a mixed sci-fi of varying hardness. I like some other stuff and really enjoyed Twilight:2000 and Gamma World; last bit of playing fantasy was IC Ardor using AD&D. CoC was fun as well for a while.
I wouldn't be able to establish a clear hiërarchy of genre preference but there's lots of things I prefer to fantasy, especially to most medieval-ish high magic stuff: pulp adventure, sci-fi (retro, space opera, post-apocalyptic), swashbuckling/pirates, horror, western, etc. though most of these can have fantasy elements added if I feel like it.
I'm pretty genre agnostic except supers, can't deal with that. I've been GMing a post global warming cyberpunk game for the last while (which has been a blast, imagine Sons of Anarchy/Firefly in a submarine), and I'm looking forward to phase two in the setting, but I have an intermittent fantasy game as well.
Is it the whole broad fantasy thing you're fed up with, including things like Warhammer/The Dark Crystal/Druss books, or is it just D&D related settings?
I've never ran or played in a western game (although I've read Boot Hill) so that might be below fantasy. Maybe sci-fi too.
The thing is, all of the above really are fantasy in the broad sense that informed the early FRP scene. One thing I dig about D&D is that there is no limit; we can explore any kind of situation.
The same is typically evident in "superhero" games, since the inspirational comicbooks have featured elements from every other comicbook genre combined.
Limits can be fun, too. I'd say my favorite genre is interstellar SF. I like even my space opera a bit 'harder' than the mere costume change from sword and sorcery to light saber and "the Force," riding a spaceship instead of a horse to save the princess from the Dark Lord's castle a la Star Wars.
Fantasy is pretty broad, there's types I like and types I could go the rest of my life without playing again. But Horror iss actually my favourite genre to GM. For me it'd be like:
Genres I love:
Lovecraftian horror, Dystopian futures, Fairy Tales, Bronze Age Supers
Genres I like:
Victoriana/Steampunk, Pulp, Gritty/Dark Fantasy
Genres I like every once in a while:
Cyberpunk, Historical, Bronze Age Fantasy, Comedic Sci-Fi
Genres I don't really care for but will play every once in a while:
Classic Sci-Fi, Space Opera, D&D Fantasy, Golden Age supers
Genres I hate:
Western, Teen Romance, Romantic Fantasy, Post-Apocalyptic, Modern Realism, Dark Supers, Superhero/Videogame Fantasy, Furries
Quote from: The Traveller;719936Is it the whole broad fantasy thing you're fed up with, including things like Warhammer/The Dark Crystal/Druss books, or is it just D&D related settings?
I wouldn't say I'm "fed up" with it. I just don't think I love it as much as others do. I can see the unbridled enthusiasm for D&D and fantasy in general in posts across RPG forums and I just don't feel the same way. But if someone mentions the other genres that I like, I perk up quite a bit. It's just that it doesn't happen too often comparatively.
Quote from: TristramEvans;719939Fantasy is pretty broad, there's types I like and types I could go the rest of my life without playing again. But Horror iss actually my favourite genre to GM. For me it'd be like:
Genres I love:
Lovecraftian horror, Dystopian futures, Fairy Tales, Bronze Age Supers
Genres I like:
Victoriana/Steampunk, Pulp, Gritty/Dark Fantasy
Genres I like every once in a while:
Cyberpunk, Historical, Bronze Age Fantasy, Comedic Sci-Fi
Genres I don't really care for but will play every once in a while:
Classic Sci-Fi, Space Opera, D&D Fantasy, Golden Age supers
Genres I hate:
Western, Teen Romance, Romantic Fantasy, Post-Apocalyptic, Modern Realism, Dark Supers, Superhero/Videogame Fantasy, Furries
So...the perfect campaign for you would be one about humanoid mutant animals with scary powers they angst about who carry gunblades and have crushes on each other while they fight outlaws and crazy biker raiders on the praerie after The Bomb? :D
I remember playing a cool TFT in Meso-America with Toltecs and such, anyone else play it? It would fall under historical, but there was magic.
'Genre' is what happens when imitation takes over from imagination. That's not necessarily a bad thing, as a framework of conventions to follow -- or to subvert -- can be a good starting point for creative work. We'll probably be seeing fresh riffs on the Arthurian Cycle and the Bible for centuries to come.
It gets stale, though, when it's reduced to lazy potboilers. "Zombie apocalypse" was probably not yet a proper genre when Romero made Night of the Living Dead (earlier classics such as White Zombie and I Walked With a Zombie instead treating the zombie phenomenon in the Haitian cultural context). Lately, though, it seems to me to have got too mired in repetition.
My regular game group is mostly made up of people who don't care for the comicbook superhero thing. Then again, I might be able to put a different twist on it than what they're acquainted with and come up with something they'd enjoy. It's unlikely that anything I did would be really unprecedented in the field, but what matters is that it would be fresh to them.
Quote from: The Ent;719941So...the perfect campaign for you would be one about humanoid mutant animals with scary powers they angst about who carry gunblades and have crushes on each other while they fight outlaws and crazy biker raiders on the praerie after The Bomb? :D
Lol, yeah , that sums up why I don't play Rifts
I am so God. Damned. Tired. Of. Fant. A. See. Look it's ok but Jesus. Almost no one plays anything else. Fantasy needs to eat a dick for about 10 years and give some one else a turn.
Quote from: TristramEvans;719947Lol, yeah , that sums up why I don't play Rifts
:D
...as for the thread theme: I'm generally with fantasy but Think Horror style stuff can be cooler with the right GM, ditto techno thriller/action Movie type stuff.
Post-Apoc is my favorite genre, but I find myself playing and running fantasy the most because its easiest to get players.
Horror however is my favorite RPG for one-shot events, particularly CoC or Chill.
One popular thing that doesn't send me is the "pariah elite" or "wainscot society" game (a la Vampire or Nephilim).
The virtual-reality thing as in Dream Park and Morpheus seems not to have caught on. I for one find it too much of a remove to play a character in a game who's playing a character in a game...
Quote from: Thanos;719948I am so God. Damned. Tired. Of. Fant. A. See. Look it's ok but Jesus. Almost no one plays anything else. Fantasy needs to eat a dick for about 10 years and give some one else a turn.
And while you're at it, let's give rock music a rest, huh? It's been at the top of the heap for sixty goddamn years now. We should listen to nothing but Baroque now.
I would have to say it is a pretty even split between fantasy and post-apocalyptic for me. I love each for different reasons. Though I think there is an argument for the idea that 1E D&D was both.
Genres?
1) Superheroes
2) Sci Fi/Space Opera
3) Fantasy/Post-Apocalyptic (Tie)
4) Horror
5) Action (sans super powers)
The only things I dislike is straight historical...
1) Urban Fantasy - From Dresden Files to Monsterhearts, this is my all-time favorite genre. I also really enjoy doing urban fantasy in more generic systems. GURPS, Fate, Cortex Plus, etc. I'd probably enjoy it with Hero, too, though I haven't done that yet.
2) Supers, street level - I like the street level stuff the best. I'm totally okay with you having things like telekinesis and the ability to set fire with your hands, but if so I like for them to be lower-powered and have more limitations on their use than you'd find in, say, an Avengers, X-Men, or JLA-related book.
3) Supers, more traditional - I also enjoy this quite a bit, just not quite as much as street level stuff. On a strange not, this and cosmic power levels are the ones I prefer to read about, but street level is the one I prefer to actually play.
4) Fantasy, minimal dungeon crawling - After UF and SH, more traditional fantasy is what I like. I don't mind some dungeon crawling elements, such as when you have to chase something into the sewers or break into a fortified compound, but I prefer for my fantasy to be more city-based, with plenty of character interactions and even some politics(just not too much, thanks).
Not sure after that point. I know I don't care for most sci-fi, though I love me some science fiction TV/movies. I just don't want to game it for some reason. I don't care for post-apoc either, though I'm okay with it sometimes if the setting is far enough removed from its apocalyptic past to essentially be something else at the current time. And I don't want to play Lovecraftian stuff, or anything else where you're not supposed to be able to have a chance in hell against the monsters in the long-term(though I'm okay with it for a one-shot; the different tone can be a breath of fresh air, just not something I'd want to subject myself to on a regular basis).
1) Science Fiction
2) Science Fantasy
3) Fantasy
Those are my preferred genres, in order.
Horror? Post-Apocalypse? Cyberpunk? Can be done in any of the three.
And I'm with Thanos, I'm pretty sick of fantasy at the moment.
Quote from: dragoner;719943I remember playing a cool TFT in Meso-America with Toltecs and such, anyone else play it? It would fall under historical, but there was magic.
Yeah, I remember that. It was one of the MicroQuest modules. I have a pdf of Toltec paper minis someone did specifically for TFT as well.
Quote from: Spinachcat;719955Post-Apoc is my favorite genre, but I find myself playing and running fantasy the most because its easiest to get players.
That's the problem right there. I have trouble justifying the time invested in learning scifi rules or creating/prepping scifi settings when there's a good chance not enough people will want to play.
Also, realistically high-tech scifi quickly risks devolving into "gadgets and modern societal conventions solve every problem in ten seconds flat."
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;720046I have trouble justifying the time invested in learning scifi rules or creating/prepping scifi settings when there's a good chance not enough people will want to play.
Clearly you are not using enough hydrofoil motorbikes in your pitches.
I'm basically tied between Fantasy/Cyberpunk generally, with Lovecraftian horror coming up behind them, and then a little bit of Space Opera/Supers at the end.
However, I admit-I'm not big on super gritty/dark when it comes to the fantasy/cyberpunk stuff. I sometimes like to read it(I love the Berserk manga, for example), but it's a mood thing, and I generally don't like to *play* it as much. I don't necessarily need to be a shining paragon(hell, I prefer anti-hero or neutral types), but I prefer more over the top stuff in general, with some hope on the horizon at least somewhere. (I don't mind some grit/dark stuff of course. A little sprinkled around the edges works nicely. It's just when I feel like what we as the players are doing is pointless/everything sucks when I get to feel it's too much.)
I also can't stand zombie-oriented fare unless it's an occasional undead cult in some of the horror I do like. Way, way too played out for me.
Genre-wise I'll play almost everything.
I tend to favor fantasy because there's so much more published for it that it's easier to get my imagination going. I've become very comfortably familiar with fantasy gaming tropes, both new school and old school, and to be honest I feel there's still a lot to explore in the broader fantasy genre, that I haven't done yet.
Horror (and here I'll cram in urban fantasy too) is a genre I've gamed far, far more than I've read, though I've watched my share of mainstream horror flicks. It's probably #2 with my gaming group, though, between CoC and WoD old and new.
I love SF and in literary terms, I tend to think of myself as a SF fan more than a fantasy fan, but I've got precious little SF gaming under my belt. I've only recently discovered Traveller and I've been trying to rectify this.
Post-apocalyptic... Well, to be honest, I think Twilight 2000 is the only real, honest-to-God post-apocalyptic game out there. Stuff like Gamma World, Rifts and Day After Ragnarok are science-fantasy; AFMBE is survival horror; hell, even "straight" D&D (and not just Dark Sun) can be called post-apocalyptic. Fallen civilizations and their secrets make amazing backdrops for adventure across genres.
Last but not least, I am a huge enthusiast of adventure with little or no supernatural stuff. Pulp men's adventure yarns may feature supernatural elements, usually as a Macguffin, but I've run Westerns and spy thrillers without supernatural influence and it turned out pretty damn good. Hell, even my Day After Ragnarok game used magic mostly as a plot device, despite having one magic-capable PC and tons of supernatural foes.
Quote from: The_Shadow;720021Yeah, I remember that. It was one of the MicroQuest modules. I have a pdf of Toltec paper minis someone did specifically for TFT as well.
I went and did a little quest, it was Treasure of the Golden Unicorn, I bet I still have it somewhere.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;720046Also, realistically high-tech scifi quickly risks devolving into "gadgets and modern societal conventions solve every problem in ten seconds flat."
Seeing how well that's worked in history so far, eh?
Quote from: Phillip;719944'Genre' is what happens when imitation takes over from imagination. That's not necessarily a bad thing, as a framework of conventions to follow -- or to subvert -- can be a good starting point for creative work. We'll probably be seeing fresh riffs on the Arthurian Cycle and the Bible for centuries to come.
'Genre tropes' is why I don't enjoy traditional supers all that much. Having to do stupid things to reflect comic-book expectations isn't my style of fun.
Quote from: Phillip;720060Seeing how well that's worked in history so far, eh?
You can't deny that readily available teleportation, mass communication, internet searches, post-scarcity setting assumptions, transhumanism, and modern economic tools (to cite only a few common scifi elements) make a lot of conventional medieval fantasy problems much less challenging.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;720067You can't deny that readily available teleportation, mass communication, internet searches, post-scarcity setting assumptions, transhumanism, and modern economic tools (to cite only a few common scifi elements) make a lot of conventional medieval fantasy problems much less challenging.
If one was playing to those problems anyways, if not, then it isn't an issue. I find many fantasy games are in many ways like "supers" due to the heroic nature of fantasy that many assume to be there.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;720067You can't deny that readily available teleportation, mass communication, internet searches, post-scarcity setting assumptions, transhumanism, and modern economic tools (to cite only a few common scifi elements) make a lot of conventional medieval fantasy problems much less challenging.
Any conventional problems solved in 10 seconds by the latest gadget are likely to be trivial, and replaced with other trivial problems that tomorrow's modern people -- the archaics of the day after -- will no doubt regard as Terribly Important.
Quote from: dragoner;720068If one was playing to those problems anyways, if not, then it isn't an issue. I find many fantasy games are in many ways like "supers" due to the heroic nature of fantasy that many assume to be there.
Quote from: Phillip;720068Any conventional problems solved in 10 seconds by the latest gadget are likely to be trivial, and replaced with other trivial problems that tomorrow's modern people -- the archaics of the day after -- will no doubt regard as Terribly Important.
Fair enough. I should not have engaged in hyperbole.
Quote from: Phillip;720060Seeing how well that's worked in history so far, eh?
Yeah, it's definitely realistic. (http://www.cracked.com/article_20731_5-amazing-pieces-good-news-nobody-reporting.html) Better tech and cheaper energy will likely only improve things as it's done for a couple centuries now.
I did a Mongoose Traveller demo with the PCs goal being the destruction of a street gang at the local starport. I gave the streetgang inferior weapons, but modern communications (a comm may as well be a smart phone). The street gang was not a pushover for the Players.
Quote from: jeff37923;720141I did a Mongoose Traveller demo with the PCs goal being the destruction of a street gang at the local starport. I gave the streetgang inferior weapons, but modern communications (a comm may as well be a smart phone). The street gang was not a pushover for the Players.
Trav doesn't do mooks though, because players don't level up; unless you are playing mary sue's, it usually is a battle of wits.
Quote from: dragoner;720164Trav doesn't do mooks though, because players don't level up; unless you are playing mary sue's, it usually is a battle of wits.
And intelligence is ammunition, in this case the Players had a breakthrough when they captured not only a streetgang member but one with his comm intact.
Quote from: jeff37923;720170And intelligence is ammunition, in this case the Players had a breakthrough when they captured not only a streetgang member but one with his comm intact.
It isn't uncommon for PC's to get into a shoot-out and then get out-shot by bad dice, even if they started with the advantage. Traveller kind of programmed in an anti-tpk though, in the morale rules.
Quote from: dragoner;719943I remember playing a cool TFT in Meso-America with Toltecs and such, anyone else play it? It would fall under historical, but there was magic.
Quote from: The_Shadow;720021Yeah, I remember that. It was one of the MicroQuest modules. I have a pdf of Toltec paper minis someone did specifically for TFT as well.
Quote from: dragoner;720059I went and did a little quest, it was Treasure of the Golden Unicorn, I bet I still have it somewhere.
Treasure of Unicorn Gold (http://treasureofunicorngold.comli.com/)? Apart from the word "Toltec" there seems to be little that is historical about it. But that's just from reading the back cover. I'm not familiar with the actual book. Was it any good?
IMHO if you want to do a proper Mesoamerican game you need GURPS Aztecs. It has actually functional magic as an optional setting element. I'm still hoping for a Mesoamerican historical fantasy game in the same fashion as Qin to see the light of day someday...
Quote from: 3rik;720174Treasure of Unicorn Gold (http://treasureofunicorngold.comli.com/)? Apart from the word "Toltec" there seems to be little that is historical about it. But that's just from reading the back cover. I'm not familiar with the actual book. Was it any good?
Yeah, that's it. It has been a while and the GM probably took liberties, but I remember it was cool for the setting with obsidian clubs, flint arrows and such.
The Strange Stones site has a faux MesoAmerican setting called Tlactoztlan. It's written up for Barbarians of Lemuria, but should be easily adapted to other systems. It's not complete, just sketches/notes really, but I view that as a plus (and I like BoL as a system). It's worth a look:
http://www.strangestones.com/tlactoztlan/
And I may love Bol but most of all I love pulp games and I've never played any edition of D&D - no, not even once (although Backswords and Bucklers tempts me).
Quote from: Gruntfuttock;720216The Strange Stones site has a faux MesoAmerican setting called Tlactoztlan. It's written up for Barbarians of Lemuria, but should be easily adapted to other systems. It's not complete, just sketches/notes really, but I view that as a plus (and I like BoL as a system). It's worth a look:
http://www.strangestones.com/tlactoztlan/
But I don't want faux, I want something at least intended to resemble the real thing to a certain extent. GURPS Aztec is pretty good but, like I said, an Aztec Qin would be the ultimate option.
Quote from: Gruntfuttock;720218(...) I've never played any edition of D&D - no, not even once (although Backswords and Bucklers tempts me).
Me neither. I could probably be persuaded to
play in something like Spears of the Dawn or Arrows of Indra, though. Ravenloft also seems like I would be able to enjoy it
as a player.
Quote from: Endless Flight;719926Is there anybody else here that has similar views or maybe I'm just very much in a niche minority of gamers.
I'd say mine are:
1) Science Fantasy (40K-ish, but less grimdark, more Rogue Trader original, NOT Rifts)
2) Cyberpunk Fantasy (Shadowrun in flavor)
3) Gritty Sword and Sorcery(Conan with the Lovecraft bits)
4) Sixguns and Sorcery (but not Deadlands for some reason)
5) Modern or recent history Supernatural Horror (World of Darkness, Hellboy, Lovecraft, Monster Hunters)
I guess all of them are "fantasy" but none of them are "dungeon fantasy." All of them could carry some Lovecraftian horror themes and I would be happy, though more in an action style guns vs Lovecraftian horrors than "everyone goes insane."
Quote from: Gruntfuttock;720216The Strange Stones site has a faux MesoAmerican setting called Tlactoztlan. It's written up for Barbarians of Lemuria, but should be easily adapted to other systems. It's not complete, just sketches/notes really, but I view that as a plus (and I like BoL as a system). It's worth a look:
http://www.strangestones.com/tlactoztlan/
Thanks, this was 20 years ago though, I'm not terribly interested at the moment, but maybe again some day. Never say never.
Quote from: 3rik;720227But I don't want faux, I want something at least intended to resemble the real thing to a certain extent.
There's Warhammer fantasy, if you don't mind the Aztecs being frogmen :)
Been running a supers game online (by post) for 5 years (actually might be a bit longer I guess) now so I suppose you could call me a big supers fan. In that time we changed from the Golden Heroes rules to a very houseruled barely recognizable GH variant to DC Heroes (3e now BoH). I love the system from way back when but understand that a couple of the players don't get it and probably never will - it seems crunchy even to me and I was in from 1e in 1980 whenever.
As for other genres, in order of favourite (no.1)
1) Supers (own just about every supers game ever made, not tried 'em all mind.)
2) Fantasy (Basic D&D more than AD&D, also loved MERP stripped free of the Tolkien baggage. Like Basic D&D with skills and crits! Whoop! E Crit! SPLAT!)
3) Space Opera (Star Wars D6 version)
4) Pulp (Crimson Skies, Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon, masked mystery men)
5) Semi historical pirates/swashbuckling
6) Post Apocalypse/any genre zombie apocalypse
9,999,999,999) Star trek. Played a game. Stuck with it but it's not really my cup of tea. You could probably say the same about Traveller. In 30 odd years of role playing tried it a few times (as played and GM) and it always died before the end of the first session. I guess we weren't doing it right. Saying that, had similar problems with Shadowrun so I guess I prefer sci fi on the screen rather than over the table with dice, unless its space opera which is a cross between genres anyway (and the science just 'works' without much explanation or gobbledigook)
Quote from: 3rik;720227But I don't want faux, I want something at least intended to resemble the real thing to a certain extent. GURPS Aztec is pretty good but, like I said, an Aztec Qin would be the ultimate option.
Part of the problem here is the holes in our knowledge of Mesoamerican civilisations, which are easier to fill with magic & fantasy than just with extrapolation from facts.
Quote from: Rincewind1;720274Part of the problem here is the holes in our knowledge of Mesoamerican civilisations, which are easier to fill with magic & fantasy than just with extrapolation from facts.
Being familiar to some extent with the source materials, I am aware of this. Otherwise there would have been more attempts at historical Aztec RPGs (+ setting-appropriate magic) already, because of the general awesomeness.
GURPS Aztecs did a pretty good job at forging everything into something actually playable and plausible without resorting to faux-Nahuatl and Discovery Channel sensationalism. IIRC it even gave you some directions on "realistic" magic for the setting.
Quote from: Brander;720230*snipped*
Excellent avatar, Brander. Two tentacles up.
Welcome to the adult swim.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;720634Excellent avatar, Brander. Two tentacles up.
Welcome to the adult swim.
Thanks,
Sorry I missed this until now.
Quote from: 3rik;720609Being familiar to some extent with the source materials, I am aware of this. Otherwise there would have been more attempts at historical Aztec RPGs (+ setting-appropriate magic) already, because of the general awesomeness.
GURPS Aztecs did a pretty good job at forging everything into something actually playable and plausible without resorting to faux-Nahuatl and Discovery Channel sensationalism. IIRC it even gave you some directions on "realistic" magic for the setting.
I need to check GURPS out some day, when I have loadsamoney for the books/pdfs.
Fantasy as a genre has always been more limited in RPGs than in other media anyhow. In RPGs it basically means elves and magic. In film it's all that and The Wizard of Oz and The Secret Life of Walter Mitty.
Well, duh! It's why I hardly ever post nowadays.
-clash
Quote from: Rincewind1;722644I need to check GURPS out some day, when I have loadsamoney for the books/pdfs.
Yeah, you should, it's a great game! :)
(And very likely right up your alley. :))
Quote from: Endless Flight;719926With most of the talk around here about D&D and the fantasy genre, it got me to thinking just how much I like fantasy compared to some of the other genres. I made a list of my top five.
1. Space Opera (Star Wars)
2. Super Heroes (DCH/MSH)
3. Modern/Spy (d20 Modern)
4. Post-Apocalyptic (Gamma World)
5. Fantasy (D&D)
I was kind of surprised it landed at #5, but it's a fair assessment. I grew up on Star Wars and G.I.JOE. I have been reading comics for 30 years, so supers have always been one of my favorite genres. I like the gonzo of Gamma World. I wasn't into fantasy as a kid, having never read Tolkien, Howard, etc. I love Howard now, but it wasn't engrained in my brain at a young age.
Is there anybody else here that has similar views or maybe I'm just very much in a niche minority of gamers.
I'll play in fantasy games (hey, I love D&D), but I actually read and watch very little of any fantasy genre (and I don't play fantasy video games, barring very rare exceptions). I prefer a few different genres of horror and science fiction, first and foremost, followed by modern day games.
Quote from: Phillip;719944'Genre' is what happens when imitation takes over from imagination.
Eh... "Genre" is what happens when reader expectations and authorial creations agree. Genres are fluid, mutable, and inconsistent over time.
Quote"Zombie apocalypse" was probably not yet a proper genre when Romero made Night of the Living Dead (earlier classics such as White Zombie and I Walked With a Zombie instead treating the zombie phenomenon in the Haitian cultural context).
There are a few earlier examples, but it didn't become a genre until after he released
Dawn of the Dead and other filmmakers started following Romero's patterns (I believe the first was Fulci's
Zombi / Zombi 2), allowing for audiences to expect that "zombie" movies would, in general, involve thus-and-so elements.
QuoteLately, though, it seems to me to have got too mired in repetition.
I largely agree, though I watch and read as many as I hear of.
Quote from: jeff37923;7200201) Science Fiction
2) Science Fantasy
3) Fantasy
Those are my preferred genres, in order.
Horror? Post-Apocalypse? Cyberpunk? Can be done in any of the three.
And I'm with Thanos, I'm pretty sick of fantasy at the moment.
How could anyone do fantasy cyberpunk?
Quote from: Rincewind1;722644I need to check GURPS out some day, when I have loadsamoney for the books/pdfs.
I have no problem saying that
GURPS is a fantastic game, despite the fact that I find the system too crunchy for my tastes. I've bought tons of the sourcebooks over the years - there's a few dogs here and there, but overall they're some of the best RPG material ever published. Hell, they did a sourcebook for
The Prisoner that's still one of my prized gaming possessions.
Quote from: Géza Echs;722703How could anyone do fantasy cyberpunk?
Shadowrun, Chtulhutech, and/or Chtulhupunk would be prime examples to me.
Quote from: Brander;722712Shadowrun, Chtulhutech, and/or Chtulhupunk would be prime examples to me.
But all those games are science fantasy with cyberpunk elements at best, if not just science fiction (I'd say Cthulhupunk is science fiction horror [or just "weird fiction"], personally, but I haven't read Cthulhutech yet). They're not "fantasy" being used to produce cyberpunk. I mean, once you have advanced computing technology and / or cybernetics, you're out of the realm of fantasy.
Quote from: Géza Echs;722715But all those games are science fantasy with cyberpunk elements at best, if not just science fiction (I'd say Cthulhupunk is science fiction horror [or just "weird fiction"], personally, but I haven't read Cthulhutech yet). They're not "fantasy" being used to produce cyberpunk. I mean, once you have advanced computing technology and / or cybernetics, you're out of the realm of fantasy.
I see where you are coming from now. To me, the differences would depend a lot on exactly what "cyberpunk" means to you. If more "cyber" the tech can be replaced by magical re-skins of tech ("go-limbs" or magic implants for cybernetics, crystal ball interfaces to the astral plane to seek out knowledge spirits for decking). If it's more about the "punk" then you pretty much just need some kind of disruptive societal elements, though to some extent fantasy feudalism is exactly the society that we see in much of cyberpunk, so it might be something more nuanced.
Quote from: Brander;722718I see where you are coming from now. To me, the differences would depend a lot on exactly what "cyberpunk" means to you. If more "cyber" the tech can be replaced by magical re-skins of tech ("go-limbs" or magic implants for cybernetics, crystal ball interfaces to the astral plane to seek out knowledge spirits for decking). If it's more about the "punk" then you pretty much just need some kind of disruptive societal elements, though to some extent fantasy feudalism is exactly the society that we see in much of cyberpunk, so it might be something more nuanced.
I see what you're saying. I'm still having a hard time seeing how the fantasy genre could be used to produce a cyberpunk game, due to reason I've already said, but I think you've come up with an idea of the closest it could possible go.
I would call Shadowrun fantasy, it has all of the classical elements.
To Geza Echs point, D&D Dark Sun has most of the general themes of Cyberpunk covered. Ecological disaster, advanced technology (in the form of biological shaping, psionics, and psionic spells), an old and decrepit tyrannical power structure to work against in the form of the Dragon Kings.
Quote from: dragoner;722722I would call Shadowrun fantasy, it has all of the classical elements.
No offense meant, but that just beaks my brain. :) I can't make myself think of a game that's set in the near future, largely focuses on Western civilization, and has high-tech as a staple as a
fantasy setting.
Quote from: jeff37923;722732To Geza Echs point, D&D Dark Sun has most of the general themes of Cyberpunk covered. Ecological disaster, advanced technology (in the form of biological shaping, psionics, and psionic spells), an old and decrepit tyrannical power structure to work against in the form of the Dragon Kings.
Hmm. I wasn't aware that the abilities in
Dark Sun (psionics, etc) were technological in basis. That might fit the need, I suppose, and you've laid out the themes nicely, but I still have a hard time accepting it. I'm all for genre bending stuff (I did Bizarro fiction, for example), but even I have my limits, you know? :)
1: Post Apoc Science-fantasy = Gamma World (Before WOTC fucked it up) and After the Bomb.
2: Pseudo hard science fiction = Star Frontiers & Albedo (Before Zeb & Sanguine fucked them up.)
3: Space Fantasy = Spelljammer (Before WOTC fucked it up.)
4: Lovecraftian Horror = Call of Cthulhu.
5: Modern Horror = Beyond the Supernatural.
6: Superheroes = MSH and Aberrant. With a leaning to TMNT and Scraypers.
7: High Fantasy and Low Fantasy = AD&D Greyhawk.
8: Genre Collisions = TORG and to a lesser degree Rifts and Shadowrun.
Things I'd like to try some time.
A: a non-supernatural Western. Looking to eventually get Boot Hill.
B: Secret Agents: Eyeing Top Secret.
C: a non-fantasy collision Cyberpunk: Maybee Cyberpunk some day.
I am neutral on.
*: Generic science fiction: linear starships in particular. Probably why I like Star Frontiers so much.
Quote from: Géza Echs;722739No offense meant, but that just beaks my brain. :) I can't make myself think of a game that's set in the near future, largely focuses on Western civilization, and has high-tech as a staple as a fantasy setting.
Except it has Orcs, magic, etc.; the archetype of "science fantasy" is Star Wars. Most sci-fi fans would put Shadowrun in fantasy due to it's classical elements of fantasy that it includes. It is rather a genre-bender, but it also doesn't include most classical elements of sci-fi, like spacecraft, aliens, and such; which would seem to throw it back onto the fantasy side. Harry Potter wouldn't be called sci-fi, for example; I think of it more as fantasy.
Quote from: TristramEvans;719947Lol, yeah , that sums up why I don't play Rifts
Get the After the Bomb RPG book.
Quote from: dragoner;722749Except it has Orcs, magic, etc.; the archetype of "science fantasy" is Star Wars. Most sci-fi fans would put Shadowrun in fantasy due to it's classical elements of fantasy that it includes. It is rather a genre-bender, but it also doesn't include most classical elements of sci-fi, like spacecraft, aliens, and such; which would seem to throw it back onto the fantasy side. Harry Potter wouldn't be called sci-fi, for example; I think of it more as fantasy.
Depends on the references.
Of the sessions I got to play in. Only one had any actual magic in use. I do not count orcs execs and elf street samurai to be magic or fantasy.
The one session that did have magic was a pretty good example of the merger of the fantasy and the cyberpunk. A wage mage turning a failed robotics experiment into a small army of golems. Lots of spell slinging at the end too. But to get into his fort we had to deck into the security and fend off armed guards outside while doing so.
Ive never seen Shadowrun played as straight up fantasy.
Quote from: Géza Echs;722739Hmm. I wasn't aware that the abilities in Dark Sun (psionics, etc) were technological in basis. That might fit the need, I suppose, and you've laid out the themes nicely, but I still have a hard time accepting it. I'm all for genre bending stuff (I did Bizarro fiction, for example), but even I have my limits, you know? :)
Oh, no, you misunderstand me. The abilities in
Dark Sun (psionics, etc) are not technological in their basis, but they can be viewed as technology in that particular setting.
EDIT: For example, Magic. Magic when used by Defilers ruins the environment while Magic when used by a Preservers does not harm the environment. This matches nicely to the concept that technology can be used in coexistance with the environment or it can be used greedily to damage the environment.
Quote from: Rincewind1;722644I need to check GURPS out some day, when I have loadsamoney for the books/pdfs.
Most of those fantastic historical sourcebooks were for 3rd edition. GURPS 3E Revised was my entry drug into the hobby, but nowadays I primarily appreciate it for its sourcebooks. I'm completely unfamiliar with any of the stuff for GURPS 4E.
Star Wars is itself a collection of archetypes from earlier pulp science fiction: Buck Rogers, Flash Gorden, Rocketmen from the Moon, etc. Space Fantasy is actually a pretty old genre.
Quote from: TristramEvans;722814Star Wars is itself a collection of archetypes from earlier pulp science fiction: Buck Rogers, Flash Gorden, Rocketmen from the Moon, etc. Space Fantasy is actually a pretty old genre.
Star Wars' archetypes go back further than that. There is a reason they put Luke Skywalker on the cover of an edition of Campbell's, Hero with a Thousand Faces.
Quote from: Tetsubo;722822Star Wars' archetypes go back further than that. There is a reason they put Luke Skywalker on the cover of an edition of Campbell's, Hero with a Thousand Faces.
Well, yeah, George was a big fan of the monomyth. But that sort of trancends genre.
Quote from: 3rik;722794GURPS 3E Revised was my entry drug into the hobby, . . .
Whoa, me too!!! :jaw-dropping:
Genres I like:
Historical
Space Opera (Mass Effect, not Star Wars)
S&S Fantasy
Modern Realism
Western
Pulp
Wuxia
Genres I am ambivalent about:
Supers
Cyberpunk
Post-apocalypse
Urban Fantasy
Space Opera (anything else, including Star Wars)
Dystopian futures
Genres I hate:
Crossovers of licensed properties
Horror
Steampunk
Tolkien-esque Fantasy
Dungeon fantasy
Classic Sci-fi
Furries
Anime
Shadowrun-style cyberpunk
I'm not really that much or that little into any given "genre" that I'd never, ever play it.
The only thing I can say is that intentionally comedic games like Paranoia or James Desborough's oWoD-satires don't really appeal to me. I prefer gaming humor as an emergent property of otherwise "serious" games.
Quote from: jeff37923;7200201) Science Fiction
2) Science Fantasy
3) Fantasy
Those are my preferred genres, in order.
What's the difference between the three?
Quote from: Elfdart;724813What's the difference between the three?
I'll use the tennis analogy. Science fiction is tennis with most or all of the rules, science fantasy is tennis with the net down and a few of the rules, while fantasy is a sport played with racquets and a ball that just has to be consistant from game to game.
Quote from: TristramEvans;722824Well, yeah, George was a big fan of the monomyth. But that sort of trancends genre.
Good fiction almost always does. Star Wars is as much a western or a samurai film as it is a sci-fi movie. The differences between Star Wars, The Searchers, The Hidden Fortress and Arthurian legends are mostly about the props, sets and costumes.
When it comes to gaming inspiration, the "genre" I prefer is ADVENTURE. Westerns, espionage, myths, fairy tales, fantasy -anything involving heroes (I define the term very loosely) and their exploits will do.