My top picks so far are:
Beyond the Wall (overall vibe and slick rules).
Night Owl Workshop - The guys that did Freebooters (I've picked up their whole line!).
Other Dust (actually, I love all of SNP).
Dark Albion has to go in here - With Appendix P!
Sabres and Witchery.
Fantastic Heroes & Witchery
DCC.
C&C.
From the Vats - Their stuff that is basically D&D BX in a very small set of books.
ASSH2e (I love the vibe but I'm not mad on those old school minuscule increments that thieves have for their skills).
LoTFP (more for the supplements rather then the rules).
Anything I've missed or that are worth grabbing?
Thanks!
BFRPG.
Ascending AC and AB, separate race/class, no alignment, tons of add-ons to tweak to taste (make it your own), many adventures. It's easier to add on than to take out I think. Everything is free.
ACKS. Integrated economy makes for a solid base for world building. You know how much a petty lord makes and you know who can afford to buy a dragon carcass. Useful shit like that.
Quote from: saskganesh;1000060BFRPG.
Ascending AC and AB, separate race/class, no alignment, tons of add-ons to tweak to taste (make it your own), many adventures. It's easier to add on than to take out I think. Everything is free.
ACKS. Integrated economy makes for a solid base for world building. You know how much a petty lord makes and you know who can afford to buy a dragon carcass. Useful shit like that.
Cheers for those. I'll grab BFRP now (free is always nice!).
I've head good stuff about ACKS at it happens.
Ta'!
My favourites, in order of preference...well, technically I should start with Barbarians of Lemuria, but most people don't consider it part of the OSR, so I'll stick to what I know.
DCC/MCC
Low Fantasy RPG
Crimson Blades/Woodland Warriors
Five Ancient Kingdoms
Spellcraft and Swordplay
Maze Rats
Havenshield
Crypts and Things
Epees et Sorcellerie
Backswords and Bucklers
Scarlet Heroes
Dungeon Questing
Fantastic Heroes and Witchery
ACKS
The Nightmares Underneath
...and that's about it for me;).
Quote from: AsenRG;1000075My favourites, in order of preference...well, technically I should start with Barbarians of Lemuria, but most people don't consider it part of the OSR, so I'll stick to what I know.
DCC/MCC
Low Fantasy RPG
Crimson Blades/Woodland Warriors
Five Ancient Kingdoms
Spellcraft and Swordplay
Maze Rats
Havenshield
Crypts and Things
Epees et Sorcellerie
Backswords and Bucklers
Scarlet Heroes
Dungeon Questing
Fantastic Heroes and Witchery
ACKS
The Nightmares Underneath
...and that's about it for me;).
Great list! Thanks very much. That should keep me busy over the weekend. ;)
My Majestic Wilderlands (http://www.batintheattic.com/majesticwilderlands.php) along with the free Basic Rules (http://www.batintheattic.com/downloads/MW%20Majestic%20Fantasy%20Basic%20RPG%20Rev%2008.pdf) I just released. Plus Swords & Wizardry (https://www.froggodgames.com/swords-wizardry-complete-rulebook).
Swords & Wizadry more specifically: Hero's Journey from Barrel Rider Games.
There are a lot, that's for sure. Do people think the genre is saturated or is there space for more new systems of this type?
My personal preference is for systems that can be played directly with original materials. Meaning the AC, HP and to-hit scales all 'work' naturally with original D&D stat blocks and so forth. If a system requires conversion of original materials I wont really play it - I have a complete set of 1E, BD&D and OD&D materials and think they are fine. Stuff like to hit tables are an unimportant detail, so I'm not sold on a game just because it represents the same math as an ascending AC scale or something. An OSR variant has to offer something substantial AND be consistent with old materials to be worth while to me.
Warriors of the Red Planet is basically the only OD&D based one that doesn't deliberately suck in order to be "Older School than Thou".
It uses ascending armor class, but it doesn't used the severely gimped attack bonuses as in other OD&D. Warriors go up +1 per level. Which makes sense, the game is based around a d20 and AC goes from 10 to -10 (or 10 to 30) and none of this AC9 BS.
Similarly, it has hit dice that are full, actual dice of varying size depending on class. None of the 1d6+2 HP crap.
Has a unified ability score table (from B/X)
And none of that single saving throw BS. Too bad the other Night Owl Games go the Older School Than Thou route and thus suck. But they were designed by different people.
Spears of the Dawn also does all of that, it's more modern in other ways though, like having the Sine Nomine skill system (based more on Classic Traveller).
Crypts and Things 2.0 is also pretty good, probably the best sword & sorcery style OSR game. They replaced the single saving throw BS with a luck attribute from Fighting Fantasy which works pretty well.
I'll second Asen on The Nightmares Underneath.
The single most impressive rule set based on D&D for me continues to be The White Hack, I think it has only been held back because the designer has made it available as hardcopy only via Lulu.
Obviously anything by Kevin Crawford is quality stuff, if you haven't checked out at least the free no-art version of Godbound yet you definitely should do so. The aforementioned single player/single DM system Scarlet Heroes is also excellent.
The Black Hack is cheap, fast and popular with lots of hack variations springing up every day. A stripped down D&D where the GM largely doesn't roll, it also has the advantage of pissing off Pundit who now also has a personal beef with David Black.
Quote from: Voros;1000122I'll second Asen on The Nightmares Underneath
Odd... I bought it, read it, thought it was cool... but I don't remember thinking it was much like D&D.
I was mostly interested in the setting though...
My favorites are DCC and LotFP.
Quote from: Simlasa;1000125Odd... I bought it, read it, thought it was cool... but I don't remember thinking it was much like D&D.
I was mostly interested in the setting though...
My favorites are DCC and LotFP.
I believe he used Dungeon World as his base but changes it pretty significantly, like Jason Lutes' also very good Freebooters of the Frontiers.
His City of Poison supplement for Nightmares Underneath is also terrifically imaginative.
Quote from: estar;1000099My Majestic Wilderlands (http://www.batintheattic.com/majesticwilderlands.php) along with the free Basic Rules (http://www.batintheattic.com/downloads/MW%20Majestic%20Fantasy%20Basic%20RPG%20Rev%2008.pdf) I just released. Plus Swords & Wizardry (https://www.froggodgames.com/swords-wizardry-complete-rulebook).
Thanks mate. Majestic Widerlands is in the cart on Drivethru. Sounds like a lot of info crammed into 140 pages.
Quote from: Ulairi;1000102Swords & Wizadry more specifically: Hero's Journey from Barrel Rider Games.
Ta! I think I've heard of Hero's Journey at one point. So thanks for putting it on my radar, I'll have a look for it too (and S&W).
Quote from: JeremyR;1000120Warriors of the Red Planet is basically the only OD&D based one that doesn't deliberately suck in order to be "Older School than Thou".
It uses ascending armor class, but it doesn't used the severely gimped attack bonuses as in other OD&D. Warriors go up +1 per level. Which makes sense, the game is based around a d20 and AC goes from 10 to -10 (or 10 to 30) and none of this AC9 BS.
Similarly, it has hit dice that are full, actual dice of varying size depending on class. None of the 1d6+2 HP crap.
Has a unified ability score table (from B/X)
And none of that single saving throw BS. Too bad the other Night Owl Games go the Older School Than Thou route and thus suck. But they were designed by different people.
Spears of the Dawn also does all of that, it's more modern in other ways though, like having the Sine Nomine skill system (based more on Classic Traveller).
Crypts and Things 2.0 is also pretty good, probably the best sword & sorcery style OSR game. They replaced the single saving throw BS with a luck attribute from Fighting Fantasy which works pretty well.
Thanks for those. Actually, I forgot to put in my original list that I have just bought Crypts and Things 2 recently. It's good! :)
Warriors of the Red Planet is class. I really like all their stuff so far. :)
I've not checked out Spears of Dawn to be honest so I'll definitely check it out now. I like what SNP does with OSR (from the stuff I have).
Quote from: Voros;1000122I'll second Asen on The Nightmares Underneath.
The single most impressive rule set based on D&D for me continues to be The White Hack, I think it has only been held back because the designer has made it available as hardcopy only via Lulu.
Obviously anything by Kevin Crawford is quality stuff, if you haven't checked out at least the free no-art version of Godbound yet you definitely should do so. The aforementioned single player/single DM system Scarlet Heroes is also excellent.
The Black Hack is cheap, fast and popular with lots of hack variations springing up every day. A stripped down D&D where the GM largely doesn't roll, it also has the advantage of pissing off Pundit who now also has a personal beef with David Black.
Thanks Voros! I have the Nightmares Underneath in the cart as well.
Shame White Hack is not available as a pdf. I'll have to pick up the dead tree version. :)
I've seen Scarlet Heroes and Godbound but I didn't realize there was a free version of Godbound (nice!). And I've heard good stuff about SHs so that's another one. I didn't realize it was based around solo gaming either. That's cool... Great for when a few players can't make it, etc.
Quote from: Simlasa;1000125Odd... I bought it, read it, thought it was cool... but I don't remember thinking it was much like D&D.
I was mostly interested in the setting though...
My favorites are DCC and LotFP.
Can't go wrong with DCC or LotFP! :)
Quote from: saskganesh;1000060ACKS. Integrated economy makes for a solid base for world building. You know how much a petty lord makes and you know who can afford to buy a dragon carcass. Useful shit like that.
This.
Furthermore, it's mass combat system, Domains@War gives you what is essentially a plug-in/standalone wargame you can use with any OSR system.
Q: In case I've missed some - What OSR games have the best rules in your opinion?
A: Are you using "OSR" to mean "D&D variants"?
Quote from: Larsdangly;1000118There are a lot, that's for sure. Do people think the genre is saturated or is there space for more new systems of this type?
Saturated is a hard thing to judge. I think that the market is 'full,' such that a newcomers is probably just going to bite into the existing market share. I also think all of the low hanging fruit, as well as the clear-and-obvious second tier of branches have all be picked. To make something new, one would really have to find a specific niche that you think has not been explored.
I like all of them to one degree or another. Yes, ALL of them.
Lamentations of the Flame Princess stands tall above the rest in terms of consistent quality and ambition. But Nightmares Underneath is really unique and underrated and easily deserves all the accolades it's getting here. Warriors of the Red Planet is also really, really good, a world-class example of a customizable "Toolkit" game. But..if you put a gun to my head and forced me to pick, my choice would be Crypts and Things. First edition. I haven't picked up the second yet because the first was already so close to perfection that I didn't see how it could be improved upon.
OSRIC and BFRPG
ACKS for the economics and domain-game back end.
LotFP for the d6 thief skills. Also, Summon is going in every version of D&D I run from here on out.
Whitehack I thought was overhyped the first time I looked at it, but I'm warming up to it as a chassis for when you want a D&D'ish rule base in a non-D&D setting. My first reaction was due to not being in the market to change a lot in my baseline D&D.
Wolf-Packs and Winter Snow is a shining example of what you can do when you're willing to tie the rules to the setting. You wouldn't use it for anything but ice age D&D, but if you happen to want ice age D&D it's outstanding.
Anything by Sine Nomine for the back-chapter random charts, though I don't run the rulesets themselves.
BFRPG? Basic Fantasy?
Quote from: Dumarest;1000203Q: In case I've missed some - What OSR games have the best rules in your opinion?
A: Are you using "OSR" to mean "D&D variants"?
I suppose I'm thinking of D&D variants. :)
Quote from: Dave R;1000281ACKS for the economics and domain-game back end.
LotFP for the d6 thief skills. Also, Summon is going in every version of D&D I run from here on out.
Whitehack I thought was overhyped the first time I looked at it, but I'm warming up to it as a chassis for when you want a D&D'ish rule base in a non-D&D setting. My first reaction was due to not being in the market to change a lot in my baseline D&D.
Wolf-Packs and Winter Snow is a shining example of what you can do when you're willing to tie the rules to the setting. You wouldn't use it for anything but ice age D&D, but if you happen to want ice age D&D it's outstanding.
Anything by Sine Nomine for the back-chapter random charts, though I don't run the rulesets themselves.
Ta! I'm hearing lots of good stuff about ACKS.
Wolf-Packs and Winter Snow looks pretty interesting, although I generally wouldn't be too interested in prehistoric stuff per se. But it sounds like they've put an interesting slant on it. Plus it only 4e! :)
Quote from: artikid;1000278OSRIC and BFRPG
Thanks, I've heard of OSRIC but I don't know all that much about it. Is it like the original basic D&D?
OSRIC is a clone of AD&D 1e.
And yes, BFRPG stands for Basic Fantasy rpg.
And although those are my favorite, Sine Nomine produces some of the best stuff in all the Old School.
Quote from: artikid;1000309OSRIC is a clone of AD&D 1e.
And yes, BFRPG stands for Basic Fantasy rpg.
And although those are my favorite, Sine Nomine produces some of the best stuff in all the Old School.
Cheers for the info'.
SN are class btw!
Quote from: The Exploited.;1000146Thanks mate. Majestic Widerlands is in the cart on Drivethru. Sounds like a lot of info crammed into 140 pages.
Appreciate the business. I try to oblige when it comes to content.
Basic Fantasy. There's an amazing community of great people who contribute to it.
Beyond the Wall is my favorite iteration of D&D ever.
Mutant Future and Apes Victorious get a big nod. They use the Labyrinth Lord retroclone B/X D&D rules. The first is a clone of Gamma World, the second is Planet of the Apes, done in retro-future Seventies style. There is also Starships and Spacemen 2e using the same rules chassis for Star Trek style adventures. All are from Goblinoid Games, and most have free no art versions available.
I rather like Scarlet Heroes, for the most part. I'm going to look into Basic Fantasy.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1000407I rather like Scarlet Heroes, for the most part. I'm going to look into Basic Fantasy.
Chris, you can go here (http://basicfantasy.org/downloads.html).
Quote from: RunningLaser;1000413Chris, you can go here (http://basicfantasy.org/downloads.html).
And it's all free? Huhn. Thanks!
Is Apes Victorious "Planet of the Apes D&D"? If so, that sounds pretty awesome.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1000422And it's all free? Huhn. Thanks!
Yep. And you can get at-cost print copies of the books from Amazon or Lulu. I've got a stack of softcover Basic Fantasy books that I use occasionally for one-off games or short adventures, and they only cost me about $20.
Quote from: Dumarest;1000428Is Apes Victorious "Planet of the Apes D&D"? If so, that sounds pretty awesome.
Pretty much. You can more or less drop it into a BECMI/RC/LL game.
Quote from: Krimson;1000434Pretty much. You can more or less drop it into a BECMI/RC/LL game.
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Like so?
No love for "Labyrinth Lord" ?
I'll second the "Basic Fantasy Role Playing Game" emotion.
My current fav is the "White Box: Fantastic Medieval Adventure Game (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/190631/White-Box--Fantastic-Medieval-Adventure-Game?filters=0_0_100_0_45208)". I love it's presentation, font and art choice. Only thing I'm not a fan of is the current cover as it's not "Old School'y" enough for me. I miss the previous covers the author offered.
Quote from: Voros;1000122I'll second Asen on The Nightmares Underneath.
Thank you.
QuoteThe Black Hack is cheap, fast and popular with lots of hack variations springing up every day. A stripped down D&D where the GM largely doesn't roll, it also has the advantage of pissing off Pundit who now also has a personal beef with David Black.
A sizable advantage in your book, I bet:D!
However, I'm well aware of The Black Hack, but decided that if I want to go for that level of simplicity, I'd go for Maze Rats instead.
Now, some of the hacks, like the Pulp Hack, might well be worth it, but I simply haven't read any of them yet;).
Quote from: estar;1000099My Majestic Wilderlands (http://www.batintheattic.com/majesticwilderlands.php) along with the free Basic Rules (http://www.batintheattic.com/downloads/MW%20Majestic%20Fantasy%20Basic%20RPG%20Rev%2008.pdf) I just released. Plus Swords & Wizardry (https://www.froggodgames.com/swords-wizardry-complete-rulebook).
Interesting. Maybe I should add that to my list, after I get a chance to read it:)!
Quote from: JeremyR;1000120Crypts and Things 2.0 is also pretty good, probably the best sword & sorcery style OSR game. They replaced the single saving throw BS with a luck attribute from Fighting Fantasy which works pretty well.
I'm a backer of this one, but I'd still say it's merely second best, after DCC.
Of course, a mixture of the two wouldn't hurt:p!
Quote from: Simlasa;1000125Odd... I bought it, read it, thought it was cool... but I don't remember thinking it was much like D&D.
I was mostly interested in the setting though...
You have classes, those classes have special abilities, and you walk through nightmarish places full of dangers in order to recover valuable items, what's not like D&D:D? There's even domain management.
Quote from: Gwarh;1000484No love for "Labyrinth Lord" ?
I was considering it, but really, a few of the games on my list are "Labyrinth Lord+", like ACKS;).
Thank you for the link to the White Box! For some reason, I thought it's print-only...which, at least to me, put it in the same folder where Burning Wheel Gold used to be (games I'd like to get, but I'm not going to).
I am another fan of Crypts & Things for pulpy Dark Fantasy Sword & Sorcery. I like it better for that than DCC, no pansy elves.
Quote from: Gwarh;1000484No love for "Labyrinth Lord"?
I figured the love was implied when Mutant Future and Apes Victorious were mentioned. :D Technically, I have never played it, because all those Goblinoid books are just supplements for my Rules Cyclopedia.
AS&SH with a bullet - the cleanest synthesis of AD&D and B/X available plus it has an awesome setting what more could you want?
Quote from: DavetheLost;1000568I am another fan of Crypts & Things for pulpy Dark Fantasy Sword & Sorcery. I like it better for that than DCC, no pansy elves.
Ahhh... I do love a game without Elves! :)
Quote from: ligedog;1000599AS&SH with a bullet - the cleanest synthesis of AD&D and B/X available plus it has an awesome setting what more could you want?
This is a great RPG! I recently bought the 2e!
Quote from: RunningLaser;1000413Chris, you can go here (http://basicfantasy.org/downloads.html).
Thanks for the link!
Quote from: Dumarest;1000428Is Apes Victorious "Planet of the Apes D&D"? If so, that sounds pretty awesome.
That sounds great... I do like a bit of Retrofuture horror! Thanks!
Swords & Wizardry White Box - light, fast and fun early clone of OD&D that I still love
OSRIC - very faithful AD&D clone (close as legally possible), perfect table complement to my 1E books (remember, originally a only vehicle to publish 1E modules, though it has now become a great resource on its own)
Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea (AS&SH) - game of choice now, love it as a sword, sorcery, horror, weird fantasy, de-tolkienized AD&D
Nightmares Underneath is interesting. Think they're pushing it more than a little with the "Old School Roleplaying Game" though.
Yeah, sure the basic engine is powered by the OSR, the entire rest of the game looks like pure new school PbtA meta-thinking.
Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, there's some cool stuff in here, this makes for some good reading. I'm enjoying it so far.
Quote from: CRKrueger;1000663Nightmares Underneath is interesting. Think they're pushing it more than a little with the "Old School Roleplaying Game" though.
Yeah, sure the basic engine is powered by the OSR, the entire rest of the game looks like pure new school PbtA meta-thinking.
Maybe that's why I couldn't see the D&D of it... but I like the setting and 'feel' of it... I bought some of the other stuff by them that is dual statted... and I doubt I'll have much trouble turning it to use with a favored system. I think I'd join it up with Astulae as a wider multiversal expanse.
Quote from: Simlasa;1000667Maybe that's why I couldn't see the D&D of it... but I like the setting and 'feel' of it... I bought some of the other stuff by them that is dual statted... and I doubt I'll have much trouble turning it to use with a favored system. I think I'd join it up with Astulae as a wider multiversal expanse.
Funny enough, the setting is the thing I like the least about Nightmares Underneath, and the reason why it's not higher on my list.
Quote from: The Exploited.;1000050My top picks so far are:
Beyond the Wall (overall vibe and slick rules).
Night Owl Workshop - The guys that did Freebooters (I've picked up their whole line!).
Other Dust (actually, I love all of SNP).
Dark Albion has to go in here - With Appendix P!
Sabres and Witchery.
Fantastic Heroes & Witchery
DCC.
C&C.
From the Vats - Their stuff that is basically D&D BX in a very small set of books.
ASSH2e (I love the vibe but I'm not mad on those old school minuscule increments that thieves have for their skills).
LoTFP (more for the supplements rather then the rules).
Anything I've missed or that are worth grabbing?
Thanks!
Thanks for including Appendix P! If you like that, just wait until you see Lion & Dragon, the full version of the Appendix P rules for Medieval Authentic Roleplaying!
From all the stuff mentioned, I only really know of LotFP - and I generally like it a lot, both the vibe and the rules (magic, specialist skills et all), but...
Every time I played it, I've had issues with the whiff factor in combat. Low attack bonus combined with a high(er) basic armor class (plus armor + the option of defensive fighting...) leads to really long fight with (almost) endless "roll to hit - miss. Roll to hit - miss. Roll to hit - miss. Roll to hit - miss. Et fucking cetera".
Is this a general issue with these rule sets or are there some of the mentioned, that does combat differently/swifter?
I love the single saving throw. It's a great baseline to use for ability checks and class customization via specific bonuses. AKA, I can get all the variation from multiple charts via the single save via modifiers.
As for OSR rulesets, Mazes & Minotaurs is my favorite. It's free.
http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr
But Swords &Wizardry: White Box is a great retro-clone if you are looking for a OD&D experience.
Also, as I've said before, Castles & Crusades is my favorite version of AD&D.
Quote from: Dumarest;1000428Is Apes Victorious "Planet of the Apes D&D"? If so, that sounds pretty awesome.
It should be, but it's not. The version without art is free (http://goblinoidgames.com/index.php/downloads/), though, so you can see for yourself.
Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;1001214From all the stuff mentioned, I only really know of LotFP - and I generally like it a lot, both the vibe and the rules (magic, specialist skills et all), but...
Every time I played it, I've had issues with the whiff factor in combat. Low attack bonus combined with a high(er) basic armor class (plus armor + the option of defensive fighting...) leads to really long fight with (almost) endless "roll to hit - miss. Roll to hit - miss. Roll to hit - miss. Roll to hit - miss. Et fucking cetera".
Is this a general issue with these rule sets or are there some of the mentioned, that does combat differently/swifter?
Really? But could this somehow be a problem of having somehow incorrectly inflated AC?
Because really AC for monsters, for example, should rarely get beyond 20 or 21 for the toughest creatures.
Anyways, I for one never felt like it had a worse 'whiff factor' than any other system.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1003179Anyways, I for one never felt like it had a worse 'yiff factor' than any other system.
Was that a misspelling or a linguistic difference? 'Yiff' has a specific meaning on the internet I do not suggest you google at work.
Quote from: Willie the Duck;1003195Was that a misspelling are a linguistic difference? 'Yiff' has a specific meaning on the internet I do not suggest you google at work.
Change it to whiff factor...
Quote from: RPGPundit;1003179Anyways, I for one never felt like it had a worse 'yiff factor' than any other system.
And.. found my new signature. :D
Quote from: Larsdangly;1000118There are a lot, that's for sure. Do people think the genre is saturated or is there space for more new systems of this type?
My personal preference is for systems that can be played directly with original materials. Meaning the AC, HP and to-hit scales all 'work' naturally with original D&D stat blocks and so forth. If a system requires conversion of original materials I wont really play it - I have a complete set of 1E, BD&D and OD&D materials and think they are fine. Stuff like to hit tables are an unimportant detail, so I'm not sold on a game just because it represents the same math as an ascending AC scale or something. An OSR variant has to offer something substantial AND be consistent with old materials to be worth while to me.
It's all ready saturated with basically the same rule set reskinned. Yet that's no problem as people are paying for the skin/setting. Go for it but don't quit your day job.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1000118There are a lot, that's for sure. Do people think the genre is saturated or is there space for more new systems of this type?
It's all ready saturated with basically the same rule set reskinned. Yet that's no problem as people are paying for the skin/setting. Go for it but don't quit your day job.
Quote from: Willie the Duck;1003195Was that a misspelling or a linguistic difference? 'Yiff' has a specific meaning on the internet I do not suggest you google at work.
Yikes! Corrected.