Do you like the way identify works currently?
Do you use it as written in your campaigns?
If you do something other than exactly by the book, what do you do?
I don't understand why identify is set up the way it is and why higher level better versions of the spell don't exist in droves. In every game where the DM has started off using the spell only as written, they have either given up due to the frustration of keeping track of bonuses for magic items the party didn't identify and or we have simply researched a better version first chance we had.
(On a side note, I find it amusing in general that spells requires a specific gold piece value of something because the gold piece value of something is determined by economics, not mystical property. If I pay my friend bob 100gp for a 2sp pearl will the pearl work in an identify spell? If not, how does the spell know I didn't pay "fair market value".
Instead of needing 8 hours to identify an item, we changed it to 1 hour.
I use identify as written: one hour, and you know pretty much everything there is to know. I also allowed the party to have an item made that could identify one item per day (don't recall the cost off-hand).
As for higher-level versions, well there's analyze dweomer. But since none of the PCs in the party I'm running have a dedicated arcane caster, that's not an issue.
What exactly are your issues with identify?
Quote from: DackeWhat exactly are your issues with identify?
It costs a 100gp+ in pearl(s) per casting.
1 hour casting time.
The idea of someone spending 1000gp to discover what 10 potions do.
The need for this ability vs. the usefulness of the spell.
I use the need from the DM's perspective. If the party is on a quest that doesn't have a good way for them to have lots of pearl on hand, the DM has to keep track of potentially a dozen magic items and constantly adjust checks made by the players to reflect them using or not using the items.
Analyze is great, but you have to be 11th level wizard/12th level sorceror and use up a spell of your highest level.
Quote from: DackeI also allowed the party to have an item made that could identify one item per day (don't recall the cost off-hand)?
Monocle of Perusal, it's 6500gp, from the Complete Adventurer +5 on Appraise checks and Identify once a day. We decided against that in the end and thought a Wand of Identify (5750gp) was probably better, since if you wanted to use several items you've just found a Wand would work, but the Monocle would not be that useful.
Quote from: Xavier LangThe idea of someone spending 1000gp to discover what 10 potions do.
:p
IMC I've started assuming that anybody who owns potions keeps them clearly labeled. So do all shops.
Otherwise, how do you know you're not mixing up your potion bottles and drinking a Bull's Strength instead of a Cure Moderate?
Quote from: Xavier LangDo you like the way identify works currently?
Do you use it as written in your campaigns?
If you do something other than exactly by the book, what do you do?
We typically house-rule as follows:
IdentifyDivination
Level: Brd 1, Magic 2, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Targets: One or more touched objects
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hr./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
The spell determines all magic properties of a magic item, including how to activate those functions (if appropriate), and how many charges are left (if any). The spellcaster may identify the properties of one single magic item per hour, up to one magic item per caster level.
Identify does not function when used on an artifact.
Arcane Material ComponentA pearl or gold dust of at least 100 gp value.
Quote from: Xavier LangThe idea of someone spending 1000gp to discover what 10 potions do.
That's what Spellcraft checks are for... "DC 25: Identify a potion. Requires 1 minute. No retry."
Quote from: Xavier LangThe idea of someone spending 1000gp to discover what 10 potions do.
As cyclotron says, that's what Spellcraft is for. At least in theory, my current party doesn't have anyone with significant amounts of Spellcraft, so they use their ID-lens instead.
Quote from: CyclotronThat's what Spellcraft checks are for... "DC 25: Identify a potion. Requires 1 minute. No retry."
If I can use spellcraft to determine some magic items, why can't I use it to
determine all magic items?
Quote from: Dackeso they use their ID-lens instead.
If a spell has a material component that is expensive. For example 100gp for a identify.
Don't I have pay that material component a certain numberof times during the creation of an item that does the spell?
Or am I thinking of a house rule or older version of magic item creation?
It looks like it does from the cost of a wand of identify, I'm just trying to remember.
Yes, you need to pay the cost quite a few times when making the item. Basically, my party decided that they wanted the cost upfront rather than having to pay 100 gp each time they got something IDed. Plus, no-one in the party is actually capable of casting identify since the guy playing the artificer moved.
The cheapest way to get one-a-day Identify spells is to hook up with a Cleric that posesses the Magic domain.
Other than that, I'd go with a wand.
I used to house rule the spell to have a casting time of 10 minutes.
Quote from: AkuninThe cheapest way to get one-a-day Identify spells is to hook up with a Cleric that posesses the Magic domain.
How does that make the spell any cheaper than, say, hooking up up with any old wizard with
identify in his spellbook?
The cleric still has to have a 100 gp pearl to cast the spell.
No.
QuoteComponents: V, S, M/DF
Arcane Material Component: A pearl of at least 100 gp value, crushed and stirred into wine with an owl feather; the infusion must be drunk prior to spellcasting.
A cleric uses his holy symbol instead.
You're right... I'd never noticed that before.
Though it is a 2nd level spell in the Magic domain... The cleric wouldn't be able to cast it until 3rd level.
On the other hand, a Divine Wand of Identify would only cost 4,500 gp to purchase, as opposed to 5,750 gp for the Arcane version. You could save a bit of money there.
Quote from: CyclotronYou're right... I'd never noticed that before.
Though it is a 2nd level spell in the Magic domain... The cleric wouldn't be able to cast it until 3rd level.
On the other hand, a Divine Wand of Identify would only cost 4,500 gp to purchase, as opposed to 5,750 gp for the Arcane version. You could save a bit of money there.
Technically... a 100 gp pearl is still a rare thing, in most places... the cost is so low only because the market is relatively small... a wizard trying to get 50 at a time might actually drive the market up significantly...
That's "out-to-screw-PCs" mentality. Identify is a 1st level spell, and as such pretty darn common. I think it's safe to say that if the price of pearls were going to be affected by the demand for that spell, it would already have done so and thus 100 gp cost includes the extra cost for a good that's in high demand.
Quote from: DackeNo.
A cleric uses his holy symbol instead.
But he'd still need to have
identify on his spell list, right? Or can any divine caster use a divine wand of
identify ?
Quote from: DackeThat's "out-to-screw-PCs" mentality. Identify is a 1st level spell, and as such pretty darn common. I think it's safe to say that if the price of pearls were going to be affected by the demand for that spell, it would already have done so and thus 100 gp cost includes the extra cost for a good that's in high demand.
In my own defence, I may say I'm not a PC screwer in general, but am of an opinion that spell casting services are not that common, and that magic items for sale are actually not common, if only because of the XP cost in making them, so manufacturers would think twice before investing something with part of their life essence... plus, I try to keep some plausibility in the economic system, and unless rapid transport for large amounts of goods across large distances (a la Eberron, with lightning rail and sky ships) has been perfected, market for some exotica (like pearls and foreign spices) has to be limited... of course, you might decide that it's the value, not the pearl that is important, and substitute any 100 gp gem, which would significantly widen the availability.
Quote from: TrainzBut he'd still need to have identify on his spell list, right?
Correct. Only clerics with the Magic domain would be able to use it.
Quote from: CyclotronCorrect. Only clerics with the Magic domain would be able to use it.
Or anyone with Use Magic Device (I recommend a Warlock with +10 in the skill).
Quote from: TrainzBut he'd still need to have identify on his spell list, right? Or can any divine caster use a divine wand of identify ?
Wands don't bother with an arcane/divine distinction the way scrolls do. But yes, someone who wanted to use a
wand of identify (regardless of whether it's made by a cleric or a wizard) would have to have
identify on their spell list (or roll Use Magic Device DC 20). In the core rules, that's bards, clerics with the Magic domain, sorcerers, and wizards.
I actually use the Spellcraft skill instead of Identify as the base mechanic. I lifted the idea from somewhere, but can't remember where I'm afraid.
The DC is 20 + caster level, except for rods (25 + caster level) and rings and staffs (30 + caster level). If you fail, you may not re-try until you gain another rank in Spellcraft, unless you use magic to help you.
The Identify and Analyze Dweomer spells now provide bonuses to the caster's Spellcraft checks for identifying magic, rather than working automatically. Identify gives a +20 bonus on one check, and analyze dweomer gives a +20 bonus on every check made for the duration of the spell. This makes them effectively "auto-success" (kind of like True Strike) and represents the wizard doing a really thorough job examining the item and running tests.
IDENTIFY is one of the free spells, along with Detect Magic, Read Magic, and Find Familiar, included in every wizard's starting spellbook. I try to make it as painless as possible, so the information gets to the players, and I don't have to keep up with who has what unidentified item. It kind of limits the wonder and awe of magic, making items easily quantified and known entities, eliminates a lot of the mystery, but it does make it a lot easier.
All thru 2nd Edition and into 3rd Edition I've pretty much kept a house rule of the 1st Edition version of the spell. Drop 8 CON, and you recover them at the rate of 1 per hour. Pearl, Wine, Owl (or other flyer like a pegasus, etc) feather. Miss a component, or use cheap pearl or cheap wine, and you risk the efficiency of the spell. You learn 1 peice of information (power, command word, charges remaining) per level of the caster.
At my last rewrite of the house rules, I think I dropped the 8 point CON loss and 8 hour recovery time, shortened it to 1 hour, kept everything else.
Although I have pondered a campaign where Detect Magic, Identify, Find Familiar, and Wizard (Arcane) Mark were 9th level, instead of 1st level spells. Not because they'd be that powerful compared to Meteor Swarm etc. But because they'd be status symbols of a master of magic. That would mean the players would have to consult (and pay- in gold or services) someone to identify their items, or test them out themselves.