Quote from: The Butcher;594422More variety, but still a bunch of crap.

Here's a hint: if your "best RPGs" list doesn't include D&D, Call of Cthulhu and Traveller (one version of each is fine), and at least one big non-D&D fantasy RPG (Runequest, TFT, Rolemaster, Palladium, whatever), I'll be disinclined to take it seriously.

No Vampire and Shadowrun ? Bullshit!

Whats "TFT" ?

Quote from: silva;594462No Vampire and Shadowrun ? Bullshit!

Whats "TFT" ?

The Fantasy Trip, a fantasy RPG from Way Back that's the direct ancestor of GURPS.

My list of best RPGs of all time includes D&D, CoC, Vampire and Traveller. I am also a huge fan of RuneQuest Deluxe, Mythus, etc etc.

Do I win something?

Quote from: Benoist;594468My list of best RPGs of all time includes D&D, CoC, Vampire and Traveller.

Do I win something?

My respect?

Quote from: Benoist;594468My list of best RPGs of all time includes D&D, CoC, Vampire and Traveller. I am also a huge fan of RuneQuest Deluxe, Mythus, etc etc.

Do I win something?

I dunno, want some Traveller? I'm cleaning out my closet.

Quote from: Internet Death;594375I, for one, know plenty of folks who think Chaosium's flagship game would benefit from a significant rules overhaul.  The system has always been flawed and usually houseruled into something else entirely.  I found it so lacking that I'm now a total Trail of Cthulhu convert.

You definitely speak like one.

I like and play ToC. I think it's a brilliant version of Mythos gaming, and I highly recommend it, as I usually do with any Kenneth Hite work.

Said this, I find your anecdotal experience to be very much NOT representative of the majority of gamers out there. I'm betting that your plenty of folks amounts to no more of one or two dozen gamers (at most), which is a very small number compared to the thousands that play the game as it is. Not only the system is not broken, it is so fucking great that has spawned many successful games running under the BRP banner, from the adaptation of The Laundry novels to RuneQuest 6 to many many others. These days, if you see a BRP game, you know you will find an easy, intuitive system that stands out of the way, with little to no wonkyness and that models very well a gritty down to earth setting. Not great for cinematics, but still.

I find your comment hilarious, because it thoroughly fails to explain how with such a broken system CoC has been in print uninterruptedly for more than 30 years, edition after edition, managing to be one of the most popular games at cons and gaming events, and enjoying a lasting popularity. Are gamers inflicting a shitty system upon them... why?

Yeah, I imagined it, you don't have an answer to that.

It's OK to not like BRP. To each his own. But pretending that a very successful game with one ot the longest lives in the hobby is nothing short of retarded. D&D is far from being my favourite fantasy game and it has many oddities that I don't like, but I would never be as bold to say that the game is broken because I don't like it.

Quote from: The Butcher;594422More variety, but still a bunch of crap.

Here's a hint: if your "best RPGs" list doesn't include D&D, Call of Cthulhu and Traveller (one version of each is fine), and at least one big non-D&D fantasy RPG (Runequest, TFT, Rolemaster, Palladium, whatever), I'll be disinclined to take it seriously.

Word, for the same reasons I used before. If your theory does not take into account the most popular games out there, your theory or model are stupid and useless.

Quote from: The Butcher;594422More variety, but still a bunch of crap.

Here's a hint: if your "best RPGs" list doesn't include D&D, Call of Cthulhu and Traveller (one version of each is fine), and at least one big non-D&D fantasy RPG (Runequest, TFT, Rolemaster, Palladium, whatever), I'll be disinclined to take it seriously.

But that's... not what MTV's list was. It's a list of the author's favourite games released in the year.

On the other hand... putting the D&D 2010 red box on a list like that? Epic fail. It isn't even the best game in it's own box (That would be "taking the components and playing Pogs instead").

re: BRP. Great system, well-designed from the start, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be improved. I'll hold off judgement on the tweaks being made to the next edition until it's actually out and on the table. They might work, they might not. But... we've had this argument before.

Quote from: Silverlion;594379I'd play, I don't own it but I'd play.

I probably can't do an online game but I appreciate the thought.

I'm glad to see DCC there, kind of surprised though I really shouldn't be, since goodman games is a pretty big name.

Sure wish I would have gotten that review copy.

RPGPundit

Quote from: The Butcher;594422Here's a hint: if your "best RPGs" list doesn't include D&D, Call of Cthulhu and Traveller (one version of each is fine), and at least one big non-D&D fantasy RPG (Runequest, TFT, Rolemaster, Palladium, whatever), I'll be disinclined to take it seriously.

The list you're replying to here is:

(a) For 2010 products only;
(b) Includes two D&D products + one Pathfinder product + D&D Gamma World

What CoC or Traveller products were released in 2010 that you feel were unfairly slighted from this "best of" list?

Quote from: Internet Death;594301I don't understand why Deadlands isn't more popular.  It seems like the coolest thing in the world.  Then again Deadlands is technically fantasy, just not "fantasy".

Deadlands was really popular in the late '90s. It burned out its supplement treadmill with mediocrity and then went through two or three cycles of "reboot editions the fanbase didn't want" (depending on how you count). And now it's only available as a game that requires two rulebooks and is branded in a way that makes casual shelf-browsers think it's a supplement for a generic game engine.

I'm amazed it remains as popular as it is.

Amazed to see Dragon Age in there. Had forgotten about that game, startled its still in print. In fact, I think I bought it and it's helping prop up some other books somewhere...

Quote from: APN;595083Amazed to see Dragon Age in there. Had forgotten about that game, startled its still in print. In fact, I think I bought it and it's helping prop up some other books somewhere...

The Dragon Age rpg will be complete when boxed set 3 is out.

Boxed set one by itself is a bit incomplete.
 

But...the Setting is great.

The interest in the game is fueled by people like me that were impressed with the setting lore from the computer rpg.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;595069Deadlands was really popular in the late '90s. It burned out its supplement treadmill with mediocrity and then went through two or three cycles of "reboot editions the fanbase didn't want" (depending on how you count). And now it's only available as a game that requires two rulebooks and is branded in a way that makes casual shelf-browsers think it's a supplement for a generic game engine.

I'm amazed it remains as popular as it is.

I wonder if the shift towards branding it as related to a generic underlying system (it morphed into Savage worlds, right?) could actually have been helpful?  People pick up the light/generic game, enjoy it and then seek a flavorful setting.  Deadlands is there, and the rules are exceptionally well suited to the game.  

But I agree with you that "designer driven reboots" rarely work out for the best.  Even if they end up accepted there is a tendency for them to fracture the fanbase.  While not the worst disaster ever, any barrier to scale (in terms of forming groups and supporting the system) is unhelpful.

Still amazed that people put any stock into ICv2.

Quote from: Bill;595102The Dragon Age rpg will be complete when boxed set 3 is out.

This is the other interesting part of Dragon Age being on that list: It only has 4 products available in print. The fact that it's managed to hang around on the bestseller list quarter after quarter like this is either a testament to its hidden strength or a testament to ICv2 having a completely broken methodology.