ICv2 Top 5 Selling Games of Summer 2012 (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/24224.html#.UIa2cAF3flg.facebook)
Pathfinder is #1. How about that?
Quote from: jeff37923;594240ICv2 Top 5 Selling Games of Summer 2012 (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/24224.html#.UIa2cAF3flg.facebook)
Pathfinder is #1. How about that?
Duuno, I guess it means people's fixation with elves and unicorns endures somehow. You'd think it would get old eventually...
Quote from: Soylent Green;594242Duuno, I guess it means people's fixation with elves and unicorns endures somehow. You'd think it would get old eventually...
And be replaced by what, exactly?
Quote from: Jacob Marley;594248And be replaced by what, exactly?
Anything else, just for a change? I mean that's 4 fantasy games in the top 5 with the top two being effectively the same game.
Quote from: Soylent Green;594250Anything else, just for a change? I mean that's 4 fantasy games in the top 5 with the top two being effectively the same game.
It is worse than that. DCC models early D&D, Pathfinder mid-era D&D, and Wizards of the Coast has a thrid epoch of D&D. Then we have Dragon Age, which is clearly influenced by D&D but is (at least) something slightly different.
Rogue Trader (a science fiction game) seems the real stand-out.
Yeah, that's a rather boring top 5. And there's elves in all those games... I guess if I absolutely had to pick one of those games it'd be Dragon Age but I'd rather just stay clear of all of them.
Quote from: jeff37923;594240Pathfinder is #1. How about that?
Well, since all the 4vengers have gone to ground, let me help out - that doesn't count online sales and since 4e moved to web subscription for content delivery, book sales mean nothing. :D
As far as the rest, glad to see the 40K system up there, maybe with that and the release of WFRP2 on pdf, FFG will realize they need to flush Little and get someone else doing WFRP.
Dragon Age is a pleasant surprise, glad to see GR is doing well with it after all the doom and gloom projections due to the stepped release date, delays and Grey Wardens not being in the 1-5 box.
Props to Goodman as well.
Funny how the top four are the only RPGs one tends to see at chain bookstores these days.
Just an observation.
I've never even heard of Dragon Age, but Dungeon Crawl Classics deserves its spot in that list. It isn't the same boring fantasy tropes as those other games and the system isn't all that similar to DnD.
Quote from: HombreLoboDomesticado;594259Yeah, that's a rather boring top 5. And there's elves in all those games... I guess if I absolutely had to pick one of those games it'd be Dragon Age but I'd rather just stay clear of all of them.
I love the Dragon Age setting. Sadly, I can't get anyone to play the Dragon Age rpg.
Good to see its on the list though.
Quote from: Soylent Green;594250Anything else, just for a change? I mean that's 4 fantasy games in the top 5 with the top two being effectively the same game.
No, I mean what specific non-fantasy game do you think
should be selling better than those listed?
I mean, I would love to see historical rpgs selling better than they currently do. However, I can also use most fantasy games to emulate a medieval setting quite well.
Quote from: Jacob Marley;594299No, I mean what specific non-fantasy game do you think should be selling better than those listed?
I mean, I would love to see historical rpgs selling better than they currently do. However, I can also use most fantasy games to emulate a medieval setting quite well.
I don't understand why Deadlands isn't more popular. It seems like the coolest thing in the world. Then again Deadlands is technically fantasy, just not "fantasy".
Quote from: Jacob Marley;594299No, I mean what specific non-fantasy game do you think should be selling better than those listed?
I mean, I would love to see historical rpgs selling better than they currently do. However, I can also use most fantasy games to emulate a medieval setting quite well.
Oh don't mind me. Think of my reaction akin to the film critic who when looking at the summer releases moans about how all the new movies are either sequels or remakes. Fantasy games have their place, but to fill in four of the top five slots just doesn't seem healthy. But that's the way it's always been in the hobby.
But if it were up to me, I'd like to see more superhero games up there. The moment is right for it. The summer was dominated by superhero movies, the genre is just made for gaming and we've never had a better, wider choice of systems for supers. And of course spandex and capes are clearly a lot more sophisticated and mature than elves and unicorns.
Nothing very surprising about the list. Wouldn't have guessed that dragon age would have hung in there as long as it has, since I dont hear of many active dragon age campaigns around here.
Would be nice if there was more variety in the top five if only so I would have an easier time recruiting players for modern settings.
I am pleasantly surprised to see DCC rocking #5. Never underestimate the power of a pretty book, I guess (all 5 games on the list have pretty, pretty books, BTW).
#4 is kind of unexpected, though, as I don't see a lot of Dragon Age love here or at RPGnet.
And like Brendan, I'd love to see more variety. If only Chaosium stopped trying to mess with the rules and did a snazzy CoC 7e (in the mold of the beautiful French and German versions), maybe we'd see a game I actually play on that list. A man can dream... ;)
Quote from: The Butcher;594325I am pleasantly surprised to see DCC rocking #5. Never underestimate the power of a pretty book, I guess (all 5 games on the list have pretty, pretty books, BTW).
#4 is kind of unexpected, though, as I don't see a lot of Dragon Age love here or at RPGnet.
And like Brendan, I'd love to see more variety. If only Chaosium stopped trying to mess with the rules and did a snazzy CoC 7e (in the mold of the beautiful French and German versions), maybe we'd see a game I actually play on that list. A man can dream... ;)
Uh, if CoC gets anywhere near the top 5 it will be because they
did mess with the rules.
Quote from: Internet Death;594347Uh, if CoC gets anywhere near the top 5 it will be because they did mess with the rules.
What, you have a problem with a new edition of CoC that
requires collectable miniatures to play?
Quote from: Soylent Green;594350What, you have a problem with a new edition of CoC that requires collectable miniatures to play?
lol, is that even true?
Quote from: Internet Death;594347Uh, if CoC gets anywhere near the top 5 it will be because they did mess with the rules.
Sure, because everybody fucking hates the clunky and unintuitive CoC ruleset, which historically has garnered zero popular or critical acclaim. :rolleyes:
Seriously, the one thing these 5 games have in common is beautiful color art. The Mythos is as hot an IP as it's ever been, Cthulhu's all over pop culture these days, and I can't help but wonder whether Chaosium is just one pretty book away from cashing on it.
Quote from: Internet Death;594362lol, is that even true?
No, no. Rest assured I'm just kidding. :-)
Quote from: Internet Death;594347Uh, if CoC gets anywhere near the top 5 it will be because they did mess with the rules.
Go fuck yourself. Seriously. ;)
Quote from: The Butcher;594365Sure, because everybody fucking hates the clunky and unintuitive CoC ruleset, which historically has garnered zero popular or critical acclaim. :rolleyes:
Seriously, the one thing these 5 games have in common is beautiful color art. The Mythos is as hot an IP as it's ever been, Cthulhu's all over pop culture these days, and I can't help but wonder whether Chaosium is just one pretty book away from cashing on it.
I, for one, know plenty of folks who think Chaosium's flagship game would benefit from a significant rules overhaul. The system has always been flawed and usually houseruled into something else entirely. I found it so lacking that I'm now a total Trail of Cthulhu convert.
Quote from: Bill;594287I love the Dragon Age setting. Sadly, I can't get anyone to play the Dragon Age rpg.
Good to see its on the list though.
I'd play, I don't own it but I'd play.
Quote from: The Butcher;594325#4 is kind of unexpected, though, as I don't see a lot of Dragon Age love here or at RPGnet.
Oh, I frequently find RPG forums to be out of touch with what's getting played out there.
That said, I am sort of surprised the 40K titles still holding on to popularity... I haven't heard much about them lately.
Quote from: The Butcher;594365Sure, because everybody fucking hates the clunky and unintuitive CoC ruleset, which historically has garnered zero popular or critical acclaim. :rolleyes:
Seriously, the one thing these 5 games have in common is beautiful color art. The Mythos is as hot an IP as it's ever been, Cthulhu's all over pop culture these days, and I can't help but wonder whether Chaosium is just one pretty book away from cashing on it.
All the morons had to do was translate and reprint the CoC stuff coming out of France, instead they're going to ignore the lessons learned by WotC and FFG and starting fucking that n3wsk00l storygame chicken baby. (Yeah, it's been one of those days. :D)
Quote from: CRKrueger;594399All the morons had to do was translate and reprint the CoC stuff coming out of France, instead they're going to ignore the lessons learned by WotC and FFG and starting fucking that n3wsk00l storygame chicken baby. (Yeah, it's been one of those days. :D)
Yeah, I got my storygame period as well. I appreciate that Internet Death is living in the middle of story game town surrounded by mentally crippled people who drank WAY too much of either the Forge, Story-games/"Indie", and/or the "Rules/Balance Über Alles" kool aid to in the end think that CoC is a broken game, but I've seen myself buttloads of people enjoy the hell out the game for decades, and many of them still do.
CoC is a Classic game in the truest sense of the term and I for one can't understand why Chaosium suddenly decided to fuck around with it when the French have come up with a GREAT version that still presents the same game but with loads of background and rules options for folks to basically play the game they want out of it, a game that's RIGHT FUCKING THERE for them to look at and translate.
But hey, whatever. It's my storygame time of the month, folks.
Boring list.
This (http://geek-news.mtv.com/2010/12/27/top-10-rpg-products-of-2010/) was a much better one.
Quote from: silva;594409Boring list.
This (http://geek-news.mtv.com/2010/12/27/top-10-rpg-products-of-2010/) was a much better one.
More variety, but still a bunch of crap.
Here's a hint: if your "best RPGs" list doesn't include D&D, Call of Cthulhu and Traveller (one version of each is fine), and at least one big non-D&D fantasy RPG (Runequest, TFT, Rolemaster, Palladium, whatever), I'll be disinclined to take it seriously. :D
I wish the numbers were more granular, it would be insteresting to see the units the 1e reprints did. Big Pun, can you get those for us? You have the direct line afterall.
I'm actually kinda surprised to see D&D4E on that list. Then again, I've seen an awful lot of 4E books on sale.
I'd love to see Chaosium translate the French version of CoC. In fact, if they end up changing the rules while still going with their current english print format, they're a bunch of idiots.
Quote from: The Butcher;594422More variety, but still a bunch of crap.
Here's a hint: if your "best RPGs" list doesn't include D&D, Call of Cthulhu and Traveller (one version of each is fine), and at least one big non-D&D fantasy RPG (Runequest, TFT, Rolemaster, Palladium, whatever), I'll be disinclined to take it seriously. :D
No Vampire and Shadowrun ? Bullshit!
Whats "TFT" ?
Quote from: silva;594462No Vampire and Shadowrun ? Bullshit!
Whats "TFT" ?
The Fantasy Trip, a fantasy RPG from Way Back that's the direct ancestor of GURPS.
My list of best RPGs of all time includes D&D, CoC, Vampire and Traveller. I am also a huge fan of RuneQuest Deluxe, Mythus, etc etc.
Do I win something?
Quote from: Benoist;594468My list of best RPGs of all time includes D&D, CoC, Vampire and Traveller.
Do I win something?
My respect?
Quote from: Benoist;594468My list of best RPGs of all time includes D&D, CoC, Vampire and Traveller. I am also a huge fan of RuneQuest Deluxe, Mythus, etc etc.
Do I win something?
I dunno, want some
Traveller? I'm cleaning out my closet.
Quote from: Internet Death;594375I, for one, know plenty of folks who think Chaosium's flagship game would benefit from a significant rules overhaul. The system has always been flawed and usually houseruled into something else entirely. I found it so lacking that I'm now a total Trail of Cthulhu convert.
You definitely speak like one.
I like and play ToC. I think it's a brilliant version of Mythos gaming, and I highly recommend it, as I usually do with any Kenneth Hite work.
Said this, I find your anecdotal experience to be very much NOT representative of the majority of gamers out there. I'm betting that your plenty of folks amounts to no more of one or two dozen gamers (at most), which is a very small number compared to the thousands that play the game as it is. Not only the system is not broken, it is so fucking great that has spawned many successful games running under the BRP banner, from the adaptation of The Laundry novels to RuneQuest 6 to many many others. These days, if you see a BRP game, you know you will find an easy, intuitive system that stands out of the way, with little to no wonkyness and that models very well a gritty down to earth setting. Not great for cinematics, but still.
I find your comment hilarious, because it thoroughly fails to explain how with such a broken system CoC has been in print uninterruptedly for more than 30 years, edition after edition, managing to be one of the most popular games at cons and gaming events, and enjoying a lasting popularity. Are gamers inflicting a shitty system upon them... why?
Yeah, I imagined it, you don't have an answer to that.
It's OK to not like BRP. To each his own. But pretending that a very successful game with one ot the longest lives in the hobby is nothing short of retarded. D&D is far from being my favourite fantasy game and it has many oddities that I don't like, but I would never be as bold to say that the game is broken because I don't like it.
Quote from: The Butcher;594422More variety, but still a bunch of crap.
Here's a hint: if your "best RPGs" list doesn't include D&D, Call of Cthulhu and Traveller (one version of each is fine), and at least one big non-D&D fantasy RPG (Runequest, TFT, Rolemaster, Palladium, whatever), I'll be disinclined to take it seriously. :D
Word, for the same reasons I used before. If your theory does not take into account the most popular games out there, your theory or model are stupid and useless.
Quote from: The Butcher;594422More variety, but still a bunch of crap.
Here's a hint: if your "best RPGs" list doesn't include D&D, Call of Cthulhu and Traveller (one version of each is fine), and at least one big non-D&D fantasy RPG (Runequest, TFT, Rolemaster, Palladium, whatever), I'll be disinclined to take it seriously. :D
But that's... not what MTV's list was. It's a list of the author's favourite games released in the year.
On the other hand... putting the D&D 2010 red box on a list like that? Epic fail. It isn't even the best game in it's own box (That would be "taking the components and playing Pogs instead").
re: BRP. Great system, well-designed from the start, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be improved. I'll hold off judgement on the tweaks being made to the next edition until it's actually out and on the table. They might work, they might not. But... we've had this argument before.
Quote from: Silverlion;594379I'd play, I don't own it but I'd play.
I probably can't do an online game but I appreciate the thought.
I'm glad to see DCC there, kind of surprised though I really shouldn't be, since goodman games is a pretty big name.
Sure wish I would have gotten that review copy.
RPGPundit
Quote from: The Butcher;594422Here's a hint: if your "best RPGs" list doesn't include D&D, Call of Cthulhu and Traveller (one version of each is fine), and at least one big non-D&D fantasy RPG (Runequest, TFT, Rolemaster, Palladium, whatever), I'll be disinclined to take it seriously. :D
The list you're replying to here is:
(a) For 2010 products only;
(b) Includes two D&D products + one Pathfinder product + D&D Gamma World
What CoC or Traveller products were released in 2010 that you feel were unfairly slighted from this "best of" list?
Quote from: Internet Death;594301I don't understand why Deadlands isn't more popular. It seems like the coolest thing in the world. Then again Deadlands is technically fantasy, just not "fantasy".
Deadlands was really popular in the late '90s. It burned out its supplement treadmill with mediocrity and then went through two or three cycles of "reboot editions the fanbase didn't want" (depending on how you count). And now it's only available as a game that requires two rulebooks and is branded in a way that makes casual shelf-browsers think it's a supplement for a generic game engine.
I'm amazed it remains as popular as it is.
Amazed to see Dragon Age in there. Had forgotten about that game, startled its still in print. In fact, I think I bought it and it's helping prop up some other books somewhere...
Quote from: APN;595083Amazed to see Dragon Age in there. Had forgotten about that game, startled its still in print. In fact, I think I bought it and it's helping prop up some other books somewhere...
The Dragon Age rpg will be complete when boxed set 3 is out.
Boxed set one by itself is a bit incomplete.
But...the Setting is great.
The interest in the game is fueled by people like me that were impressed with the setting lore from the computer rpg.
Quote from: Justin Alexander;595069Deadlands was really popular in the late '90s. It burned out its supplement treadmill with mediocrity and then went through two or three cycles of "reboot editions the fanbase didn't want" (depending on how you count). And now it's only available as a game that requires two rulebooks and is branded in a way that makes casual shelf-browsers think it's a supplement for a generic game engine.
I'm amazed it remains as popular as it is.
I wonder if the shift towards branding it as related to a generic underlying system (it morphed into Savage worlds, right?) could actually have been helpful? People pick up the light/generic game, enjoy it and then seek a flavorful setting. Deadlands is there, and the rules are exceptionally well suited to the game.
But I agree with you that "designer driven reboots" rarely work out for the best. Even if they end up accepted there is a tendency for them to fracture the fanbase. While not the worst disaster ever, any barrier to scale (in terms of forming groups and supporting the system) is unhelpful.
Still amazed that people put any stock into ICv2.
Quote from: Bill;595102The Dragon Age rpg will be complete when boxed set 3 is out.
This is the other interesting part of Dragon Age being on that list: It only has 4 products available in print. The fact that it's managed to hang around on the bestseller list quarter after quarter like this is either a testament to its hidden strength or a testament to ICv2 having a completely broken methodology.
Quote from: Justin Alexander;595176This is the other interesting part of Dragon Age being on that list: It only has 4 products available in print. The fact that it's managed to hang around on the bestseller list quarter after quarter like this is either a testament to its hidden strength or a testament to ICv2 having a completely broken methodology.
I don't think Dragon Age's appeal is the game mechanics.
I can only speak for myself, but the reason I bought the dragon Age pen and paper boxed set one and two....
Was because I played the computer rpg, and the setting and background lore impressed me.
I was hooked when I read this from in game lore:
No matter their power, their triumphs,
The mage-lords of Tevinter were men
And doomed to die.
Then a voice whispered within their hearts,
Shall you surrender your power
To time like the beasts of the fields?
You are the Lords of the earth!
Go forth to claim the empty throne
Of Heaven and be gods.
In secret they worked
Magic upon magic
All their power and all their vanity
They turned against the Veil
Until at last, it gave way.
Above them, a river of Light,
Before them the throne of Heaven, waiting,
Beneath their feet
The footprints of the Maker,
And all around them echoed a vast
Silence.
But when they took a single step
Toward the empty throne
A great voice cried out
Shaking the very foundations
Of Heaven and earth:
And So is the Golden City blackened
With each step you take in my Hall.
Marvel at perfection, for it is fleeting.
You have brought Sin to Heaven
And doom upon all the world.
Violently were they cast down,
For no mortal may walk bodily
In the realm of dreams,
Bearing the mark of their Crime:
Bodies so maimed
And distorted that none should see them
And know them for men.
Deep into the earth they fled,
Away from the Light.
In Darkness eternal they searched
For those who had goaded them on,
Until at last they found their prize,
Their god, their betrayer:
The sleeping dragon Dumat. Their taint
Twisted even the false-god, and the whisperer
Awoke at last, in pain and horror, and led
Them to wreak havoc upon all the nations of the world:
The first Blight.
--From Threnodies 8.
Here is the entire backround lore:
http://da-codex.appspot.com/
Quote from: Sommerjon;595122Still amazed that people put any stock into ICv2.
It's not a good source of data. But, it's one of the only sources of data we have.
Quote from: Bill;595188I can only speak for myself, but the reason I bought the dragon Age pen and paper boxed set one and two....
Absolutely. I can definitely see the appeal. My point, though, is that you only bought those boxed sets once, right? Unlike Pathfinder, there isn't new product every month for the existing fanbase to be purchasing. So if DA is hanging onto the bestseller list quarter after quarter, it means that there are a bunch of new people buying it each month.
By contrast,
Dresden Files hit the ICv2 list when its core rulebooks came out. It wasn't followed up with supplements and it promptly dropped right back off the list again.
Dragon Age did the same thing initially: It hit the list in Q1 2010 when the first box set came out and then promptly dropped off again. But then it came back in Q4 2010 and has made the list ever single quarter since then.
I have no functioning explanation for this: Neither DA2 nor the second box set dropped until 2011.
The other question is: Where are all these DA players? They aren't on RPGNet or ENWorld or here. They aren't even on Green Ronin's forums. (The DA forums there are busy, but are dwarfed by Mutants & Masterminds.)
The only likely explanation I have is that there are a lot of people who are buying DA because they played the video games and
are not existing RPG players. A slightly less likely explanation is that DA is really popular among existing RPG players who are severely under-represented in online fandom.
Whichever is true, Green Ronin is scoring a really impressive success here.
Quote from: Mistwell;595201It's not a good source of data. But, it's one of the only sources of data we have.
It's not really a source of data at all. There is no real methodology behind it beyond ringing up a bunch of people 'in the know' and compiling what they think.
Dresden Files has a Huge audience, many of whom are never stepping into a FLGS, and don't play RPGs of any kind. Also, no matter what anyone says, Fate has fruity story stuff in it. :D
Dragon Age has a huge audience, all of whom by definition play RPGs, at least the computer version.
Is the Dresden Files RPG in bookstores? Dragon Age is in every one I go into.
It is odd, however, to have an entire industry where the sales data are hidden. Can't you buy one share of Hasbro and ask for some of that stuff?
Dragon Age being on the top list is puzzling with few to no supplements; I'm wondering if these figures are definitely supposed to include supplements, or just be for sales of core rulebooks?
Also, has anyone actually seen "Icv2 Internal Correspondence #80?" that the figures come from, or know if that has any more info?
Quote from: CRKrueger;595527Dresden Files has a Huge audience, many of whom are never stepping into a FLGS, and don't play RPGs of any kind.
Dresden Files, as an RPG, is an interesting data point because it's one of the only instances in which hard sales numbers are available. Here's what we know:
Q2 2010: Sold roughly 4500 print + 500 PDF of each core rulebook. This includes 2500 copies of each rulebook sent to distributors, retailers, or sold at conventions.
Q3 2010: Sold 2000/2500 print + 250/300 PDF of the core rulebooks. This includes 1200 and 1700 copies sold through distributors, retailers, and conventions. This is the quarter where they hit 5th on the ICv2 list. (I would interpret this to mean that copies which shipped to distributors in Q2 2010 were now flowing out at the retail level.)
Q4 2010: Sold 1000/1400 total copies (they're not longer conveniently breaking out PDF vs. print). These include 700 and 1000 copies through distribution.
Q1 2011: Sold 1000/1400 total copies. These include 750 and 1000 copies through distribution.
After having sales halve ever previous quarter, this quarter their sales hold steady. This continues for Q2 and Q3, then sales drop to 430/650 for Q4 2011. Distribution numbers in that quarter drop to 280/460, which suggests the retailers have saturated their markets and are no longer moving the copies on their shelves. And these numbers hold stead through Q1 and Q2 in 2012.
It's impossible to know how representative these numbers are of the sales of other titles on the ICv2 list. But if it takes at least 4,500 sales to secure a place on the list, then
Dragon Age has sold at least 36,000 books in the past two years.
Quote from: Justin Alexander;595574It's impossible to know how representative these numbers are of the sales of other titles on the ICv2 list. But if it takes at least 4,500 sales to secure a place on the list, then Dragon Age has sold at least 36,000 books in the past two years.
On the other hand, 36K books is a pretty niche business. Dragon Age 2 sold greater than 1 million copies (in an industry with non-trivial amounts of both piracy and copy resale). So you could likely get 50,000 copies with about a 3% conversion of console players who check out the pen and paper version.
I wonder what could have been done with a larger push and a more widely supported game?
Quote from: Votan;595628On the other hand, 36K books is a pretty niche business. Dragon Age 2 sold greater than 1 million copies (in an industry with non-trivial amounts of both piracy and copy resale). So you could likely get 50,000 copies with about a 3% conversion of console players who check out the pen and paper version.
I wonder what could have been done with a larger push and a more widely supported game?
I wonder what could have happened had the pc game actually been worth a shit.
Quote from: JRR;595640I wonder what could have happened had the pc game actually been worth a shit.
However, considering one of the reasons that DA2 "sucked" was that it abandoned RPG elements for action ones, an action DA2 may have ironically pushed DARPG sales more then a rpg DA2. If I can't get my Thedas RPG on with DA2 like I did in DA1 where do I go? The tabletop maybe.
Quote from: Votan;595628On the other hand, 36K books is a pretty niche business. Dragon Age 2 sold greater than 1 million copies (in an industry with non-trivial amounts of both piracy and copy resale). So you could likely get 50,000 copies with about a 3% conversion of console players who check out the pen and paper version.
Breaking news, folks: Tabletop RPGs are getting outsold by video games! Film at 11!
Quote from: Justin Alexander;595680Breaking news, folks: Tabletop RPGs are getting outsold by video games! Film at 11!
That would be the facile interpretation of my post. The point was that a game that sells a million copies will have a certain percentage of hard core fans. These fans may purchase Dragon Age related material, on the strength of the online game. Heck, the atmosphere of the first game was absolutely amazing and very unique (somehow, the second one did not capture the same cool intensity).
So Green Ronin doing the game had a pretty large captive audience. I bought the first boxed set and gave up given the long gap between the first and second boxed sets (as I wish there were rules for Grey Wardens).
Thus I see some of this remarkable performance as being a wasted opportunity to lure more people into Tabletop gaming. Imagine if WotC or Paizo (who have the resources to release products rapidly) had obtained the license. But, I do agree that it is good somebody is doing something that is a good entry level game.
Quote from: Votan;595706So Green Ronin doing the game had a pretty large captive audience.
That's not what "captive audience" means.
QuoteThus I see some of this remarkable performance as being a wasted opportunity to lure more people into Tabletop gaming. Imagine if WotC or Paizo (who have the resources to release products rapidly) had obtained the license.
The reality is that
Dragon Age appears to be the most successful licensed RPGs in at least the past decade, so I find it impossible to describe it as a wasted opportunity.
And there is no reality in which WotC or Paizo would have picked up this license. Even if they had, there's no guarantee they would have enjoyed the success that Green Ronin has apparently enjoyed. For example, IIRC, WotC never got their Star Wars RPG or their Wheel of Time RPG onto the ICv2 bestseller lists. The former has a much larger extant audience than DA; the latter has a fairly comparable audience.
Here's a article from ICv2 titled 'Fantastic Summer' for Hobby Games (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/24220.html)
"The explosive growth in the hobby games business in the spring of this year (see "Hobby Games Explosive") continued through the summer, according to a recently released report in ICv2's Internal Correspondence #80."
When I lived in the midwest, ICv2 did an interview with a local shop manager. What came out in the 'Correspondence' wasn't accurate, quotes taken all out of context, 2-part questions where only half was quoted, etc.
Quote from: Sommerjon;595778Here's a article from ICv2 titled 'Fantastic Summer' for Hobby Games (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/24220.html)
"The explosive growth in the hobby games business in the spring of this year (see "Hobby Games Explosive") continued through the summer, according to a recently released report in ICv2's Internal Correspondence #80."
When I lived in the midwest, ICv2 did an interview with a local shop manager. What came out in the 'Correspondence' wasn't accurate, quotes taken all out of context, 2-part questions where only half was quoted, etc.
I am pretty happy with the position that ICv2 has some real limitations as a data source. That being said, I am unaware of a better option.
Quote from: Votan;595953I am pretty happy with the position that ICv2 has some real limitations as a data source. That being said, I am unaware of a better option.
Why do we need this?
Gaming trends are regional.
Usually it revolves around wanting to know whether or not D&D holds the top spot in the RPG market, the answer to which raises all sorts of other interesting questions. But then, surely you knew that?
Quote from: Votan;595953I am pretty happy with the position that ICv2 has some real limitations as a data source. That being said, I am unaware of a better option.
They seem to be not that much different from
Comics & Games Retailer's collection of data.
From 2000-2005 I participated in their monthly "Market Beat" surveys.
I think that, however imperfect, it does give us some vague idea of what's trending.
RPGPundit