Walking into a game store has become a much more empty experience since the advent of 4E. My favourite game is no longer supported in a manner which I have even the remotest interest. Yes, there is Pathfinder and yes, I game the system and purchase the products, but apart from their Adventure Path modules their output is pretty low. I'm in my 30s, earing more than I ever have before and don't have anything to spend it on. I still visit game stores frequently but there is nothing for me to see in the largest gaming section (the one reserved for the latest version of D&D).
This isn't meant to be a woe is me story, just curious to see if others feel the same way. I am interested in other RPGs, plan on running an OD&D campaign, but I've always liked to stay in touch with the lastest edition of D&D as well. I feel like there has been a hole in my gaming world since mid 2007.
Quote from: Fiasco;412821Walking into a game store has become a much more empty experience since the advent of 4E. My favourite game is no longer supported in a manner which I have even the remotest interest. Yes, there is Pathfinder and yes, I game the system and purchase the products, but apart from their Adventure Path modules their output is pretty low. I'm in my 30s, earing more than I ever have before and don't have anything to spend it on. I still visit game stores frequently but there is nothing for me to see in the largest gaming section (the one reserved for the latest version of D&D).
This isn't meant to be a woe is me story, just curious to see if others feel the same way. I am interested in other RPGs, plan on running an OD&D campaign, but I've always liked to stay in touch with the lastest edition of D&D as well. I feel like there has been a hole in my gaming world since mid 2007.
Same here, though I've more or less stopped buying D&D stuff with the advent of 4E Essentials.
In regard to Pathfinder, I've only really picked up the monthly adventure path books and some of the region setting type supplement books. I haven't bothered picking up the more crunch heavy books whether the hardcover Pathfinder rpg ones, or the softcover campaign setting or player companion ones. Ever since the Pathfinder rpg core books were released, I've bought less and less Pathfinder books, to the point where I've went months without buying anything by Pathfinder or D&D.
Quote from: Fiasco;412821Walking into a game store has become a much more empty experience since the advent of 4E. My favourite game is no longer supported in a manner which I have even the remotest interest. Yes, there is Pathfinder and yes, I game the system and purchase the products, but apart from their Adventure Path modules their output is pretty low. I'm in my 30s, earing more than I ever have before and don't have anything to spend it on. I still visit game stores frequently but there is nothing for me to see in the largest gaming section (the one reserved for the latest version of D&D).
This isn't meant to be a woe is me story, just curious to see if others feel the same way. I am interested in other RPGs, plan on running an OD&D campaign, but I've always liked to stay in touch with the lastest edition of D&D as well. I feel like there has been a hole in my gaming world since mid 2007.
Well, I feel the same, way, though it goes back to the mid 80s.
However, though I buy the core products for every generation, I feel worse and worse about them. I buy them: I have the disposable income (Our average Igbar session kills 'x' amounts of dollars of wine that would seem criminal to some), but I share your feeling about the game my heart still calls home, the center of my gaming world for so long until I painfully realized it was not what I needed it to be.
I'm used to it. I simply don't expect game stores to carry anything that I'm interested in, as far as RPGs go. I don't play any of the big mainstream properties like 4e D&D or Pathfinder. Occasionally I'm pleasantly surprised; there are a few stores that carry a wide variety of stuff, including OOP material. Those are treasure troves.
On the bright side, I've recently become interested in miniatures gaming (specifically Field of Glory), so suddenly more game stores have products of interest, again. (Although if I'd been drawn to Warhammer or Flames of War I'd be more mainstream.) Oh, and I also just discovered that Mongoose's Runequest II is pretty damn good, too.
I have a similar problem, but for a much different reason.
I like 4e a lot. I see a lot of 4e books I'd love to buy, but I've gotten used to not buying them. Why? For a few reasons:
*The expense. 3.x wore me out when it came to buying $35-40 books every month or so. Restarting the treadmill with 4e made me much, much more picky. If they'd started with something like Essentials or even the Red Box, I might've gotten on board the Supplement Express.
*A lack of appealing adventures. The format that began with late 3e adventures really rubs me the wrong way. Good adventures really help me get interested in new supplements.
*Not enough variety. The GSL has not inspired as much good material as the OGL did, especially late in 3e's run. I'd love to see, say, historical supplements for the game, or licensed stuff like a 4e version of Conan. Or maybe a supplement that draws on the trappings of Old School D&D to "hack" 4e. Maybe WotC feels they gave away too much with the OGL, but I can tell you that for me, at least, making 4e more of a closed shop (I know, not entirely, but there doesn't seem to be much in the way of 3rd party support so far) has made me much less a customer of 4e in general because WotC hasn't stepped up and made the kinds of supplements I want, that 3rd party publishers provided for with the OGL.
So, in the end, I have a similar feeling of loss and emptiness as I look at the RPG racks at stores.
I hear you guys.
It does feel good to see (Essentials) D&D products and feel intrigued about them again.
Quote from: Benoist;412829I hear you guys.
It does feel good to see (Essentials) D&D products and feel intrigued about them again.
In regard to 4E Essentials, I'm basically in a wait and see mode. No pre-orders anymore.
I'll probably skip "Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms" for now.
I want to go through the content of the books "Class Compendium: Heroes of Sword and Spell" and "Heroes of Shadow", before buying anything further. (These books are scheduled for a February and March 2011 release respectively). It will be a long 4-5 month wait, without buying anything D&D.
Quote from: ColonelHardisson;412827I'd love to see, say, historical supplements for the game, or licensed stuff like a 4e version of Conan. Or maybe a supplement that draws on the trappings of Old School D&D to "hack" 4e.
While I'm sorry to hear that you're finding the 4e well dry, I feel like my renewed interest in BRP and Runequest just opened this kind of thing up to me, again. I've gone from pretty much zero interest in buying more RPG products to springing for historical supplements (Alephtar's
Rome, MRQII
Vikings,
Crusader of the Amber Coast) and eyeing other products (the Conanesque
The Savage North, Mongoose's
Empires). I can't say I'm terribly interested in a BRP-version of old school D&D (I'd rather just play old school D&D), but I saw there's something like that, too: BRP
Classic Fantasy.
Anyway, if you're at all interested in BRP it sounds like the material being released for the BRP-derived systems is right up your alley.
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;412834While I'm sorry to hear that you're finding the 4e well dry, I feel like my renewed interest in BRP and Runequest just opened this kind of thing up to me, again.
Earlier this year, Mongoose Runequest 2 (MRQ2) sparked my interest again while simultaneously 4E D&D was already dropping off in my purchases.
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;412834I've gone from pretty much zero interest in buying more RPG products to springing for historical supplements (Alephtar's Rome, MRQII Vikings, Crusader of the Amber Coast) and eyeing other products (the Conanesque The Savage North, Mongoose's Empires).
But after the two major editing botch jobs (ie. MRQ2 Arms & Equipment and Necromancy), my interest fell flat again. At this point, I'm in a wait and see mode with each new MRQ2 release. Any further major botch jobs, and I'll probably forgo MRQ2 altogether.
Good point made by Philotomy. I would be interested in good quality modules or settings regardless of game system. Alas, they are few and far between and certainly not released by WOTC/HASBRO.
Quote from: Fiasco;412837Good point made by Philotomy. I would be interested in good quality modules or settings regardless of game system. Alas, they are few and far between and certainly not released by WOTC/HASBRO.
So far the WotC 4E modules have been kinda crappy imho. Third party companies producing 4E modules haven't been much better either imho (ie. Goodman, XRP, etc ...).
Paizo makes somewhat better stuff to read, though at the expense of being a bit railroady in the case of the Pathfinder adventure paths. The Pathfinder modules are ok, but not outstanding. When I was DM'ing 4E D&D, I found the Pathfinder stuff was better for taking ideas and encounters from. No idea how they play under Pathfinder rpg proper.
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;412834While I'm sorry to hear that you're finding the 4e well dry, I feel like my renewed interest in BRP and Runequest just opened this kind of thing up to me, again. I've gone from pretty much zero interest in buying more RPG products to springing for historical supplements (Alephtar's Rome, MRQII Vikings, Crusader of the Amber Coast) and eyeing other products (the Conanesque The Savage North, Mongoose's Empires). I can't say I'm terribly interested in a BRP-version of old school D&D (I'd rather just play old school D&D), but I saw there's something like that, too: BRP Classic Fantasy.
Anyway, if you're at all interested in BRP it sounds like the material being released for the BRP-derived systems is right up your alley.
I'm not too interested in the BRP stuff right now. I have a ton of old Chaosium Pendragon books, as well as Stormbringer. I also bought up the books in Mongoose's Hawkmoon line. Plus, I have the old Avalon Hill RQ Deluxe box set with a number of supplements.
Speaking of Conan, I had started buying up the supplements for that game that interested me before I knew they were ending the line.
I have a lot of GURPS stuff, including a number of the new hardbacks. I plan on grabbing Thaumaturgy.
I guess what I'm getting at is that I've wanted to see some actual, specifically 4e D&D material covering different genres and subjects. Gamma World is a good start towards what I want, but without the OGL I have to wait for WotC to do supplements, and they haven't made a sign of moving in some of the other directions I'd like.
Quote from: Fiasco;412821Walking into a game store has become a much more empty experience since the advent of 4E. My favourite game is no longer supported in a manner which I have even the remotest interest. Yes, there is Pathfinder and yes, I game the system and purchase the products, but apart from their Adventure Path modules their output is pretty low. I'm in my 30s, earing more than I ever have before and don't have anything to spend it on. I still visit game stores frequently but there is nothing for me to see in the largest gaming section (the one reserved for the latest version of D&D).
This isn't meant to be a woe is me story, just curious to see if others feel the same way. I am interested in other RPGs, plan on running an OD&D campaign, but I've always liked to stay in touch with the lastest edition of D&D as well. I feel like there has been a hole in my gaming world since mid 2007.
Me, too. Except it goes back to 2000. Tried 3e. Hated it. So, the feeling of walking into the game store like a kid in a candy store, ooogling all the the rad stuff I wanted to buy (but having the money to buy only one thing at a time) . . . haven't had that feeling in ages.
Very sad, indeed.
Over the last 9+ months or so, I've also been trying to avoid buying too much stuff which end ups sitting on my book shelf collecting dust, rarely or never to be used in a game.
For example, if I wasn't playing 4E Encounters every week, I probably would not have picked up the 4E Essentials "Heroes of the Fallen Lands" and "Rules Compendium" books.
Quote from: 1989;412843So, the feeling of walking into the game store like a kid in a candy store, ooogling all the the rad stuff I wanted to buy (but having the money to buy only one thing at a time) . . . haven't had that feeling in ages.
The last time I felt that way, was when I got back into rpg games shortly after 3.5E D&D was released.
At the time, I was picking up a lot of d20 glut modules for $5 bucks a pop (or less) from the bargain bins. It was after the d20 bubble bursted, and subsequently tons of stuff being deeply discounted. After this "kid in a candy store" binge, there was nothing much left of interest afterward.
Quote from: ggroy;412838So far the WotC 4E modules have been kinda crappy imho. Third party companies producing 4E modules haven't been much better either imho (ie. Goodman, XRP, etc ...).
Most of the WotC adventures I've seen have been really mediocre, which in some ways is worse than being crappy. A few have been OK; I actually dig Hammerfast. My main problem right now with WotC when it comes to adventures is that they've produced some modules I actually would love to have, but they aren't readily available. Specifically, I'm talking about the adaptations of classic modules that are only available via the RPGA - Village of Hommlet and Keep on the Borderlands are high on my "want" list; I lucked out and found Tomb of Horrors - the 4e adaptation of the original module, not the hardback adventure - at a used bookstore.
Quote from: ColonelHardisson;412846Specifically, I'm talking about the adaptations of classic modules that are only available via the RPGA - Village of Hommlet and Keep on the Borderlands are high on my "want" list; I lucked out and found Tomb of Horrors - the 4e adaptation of the original module, not the hardback adventure - at a used bookstore.
I briefly skimmed the 4E Village of Hommlet adaptation awhile ago. (One of my friends had it). At first I thought it looked like a generic 4E WotC module. It didn't evoke the same impressions I had of the original version from back in the day.
The present season of 4E Encounters is "Keep on the Borderlands". For the first several sessions, I didn't recognize much if any of the original B2 module. Strange. It may very well be just in name only?
I gave up on D&D near the end of 3e. I was burned out. Same with White Wolf. Nowadays, most of my gaming purchases are online, and there's no where near as many as there used to be.
There is a metric ton of awesome RPG stuff out there between the game store, the small press POD and the PDF world.
When 3e came, I tried it and then realized it wasn't for me. So my gaming dollars got spread about to other companies.
I have never been at a loss to find something interesting every few months.
My response has been to delve in the past. Complete my collection of 1E gaming materials and also branching out into other RPGs such as Pendragon, WEG Starwars and Traveller. Alas, none of these are carried by game stores.
Quote from: Fiasco;412853My response has been to delve in the past. Complete my collection of 1E gaming materials and also branching out into other RPGs such as Pendragon, WEG Starwars and Traveller. Alas, none of these are carried by game stores.
Same here.
I've been slowly filling in the gaps in my 1E AD&D collection. I still have some huge significant gaps, such as the Dragonlance modules and many of the modules for the BECMI box sets.
Another rpg I would like to fill in the gaps eventually, would be the FASERIP Marvel Super Heroes.
Quote from: ggroy;412835But after the two major editing botch jobs (ie. MRQ2 Arms & Equipment and Necromancy), my interest fell flat again. At this point, I'm in a wait and see mode with each new MRQ2 release. Any further major botch jobs, and I'll probably forgo MRQ2 altogether.
Yeah, editing has never been Mongoose's strong point. On the other hand, with the exception of
Vikings, none of the supplements I listed were from Mongoose. There's a surprising amount of BRP activity from other publishers.
Quote from: Fiasco;412853Complete my collection of 1E gaming materials and also branching out into other RPGs such as Pendragon, WEG Starwars and Traveller.
Pendragon is one of those games I always wanted to get into, but just never got around to. Maybe I'll look into that. (Although I really don't know why -- I don't have time to play the games I already own.)
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;412856Pendragon is one of those games I always wanted to get into, but just never got around to. Maybe I'll look into that. (Although I really don't know why -- I don't have time to play the games I already own.)
Pretty much. Doubt I will ever run it, but a beatiful system for what it sets out to achieve.
I played Pendragon way back then, in France. 20 years ago maybe. I love this game.
Quote from: Philotomy JuramentI feel like my renewed interest in BRP and Runequest just opened this kind of thing up to me, again.
The upswing in BRP stuff has me buying a lot more lately too... Though not from B&M stores which haven't carried much of interest to me for years. I've really been enjoying Chaosium's monographs and Alephtar's Rome and Dragon Lines books are great.
Game stores stopped being much of a destination for me when I stopped being able to find much beside WOTC and WW stuff. Miniatures were still a draw for a while... But now I see nothing but GW and Privateer minis.
Quote from: ggroy;412822Same here, though I've more or less stopped buying D&D stuff with the advent of 4E Essentials.
+1
And I stopped buying Pathfinder stuff when Paizo switched to their own ruleset.
For the same reason.
Quote from: ggroy;412854Same here.
I've been slowly filling in the gaps in my 1E AD&D collection. I still have some huge significant gaps, such as the Dragonlance modules and many of the modules for the BECMI box sets.
Another rpg I would like to fill in the gaps eventually, would be the FASERIP Marvel Super Heroes.
I have all but the last two of the dl original adventures. I'd be willing to part with them if you think you would really enjoy them. I get some sublime sense of satisfaction having them on my shelf, but I need to thin things down and they are probably never getting played.
Quote from: Fiasco;412821This isn't meant to be a woe is me story, just curious to see if others feel the same way. I am interested in other RPGs, plan on running an OD&D campaign, but I've always liked to stay in touch with the lastest edition of D&D as well. I feel like there has been a hole in my gaming world since mid 2007.
Sure, I've largely felt the same way for a good while. This is especially true of my regular store, that moved into a mall, only sells the big names and follows more of a "boutique" model now. I've lost interest in a lot of shops that way. I really only go in to see the guys and look at gaming accessories.
However, I do make it into something of a hobby now to try to hunt down the "other kind" of gaming store whenever I'm out of town. You know, crammed floor to ceiling with dusty old games, impossible to find anything, have to ask the Warhammer guy to move so you can see that one product. When you find something you want, it's like finding buried treasure. That cheap thrill has only gotten better.
Last time I took a weekend trip with my girlfriend, I spotted a gaming store cold from the car in the Middle of Nowhere, NY and nearly killed us with enthusiasm of our unexpected detour. There are still good times to be had.
Quote from: Windjammer;412869+1
And I stopped buying Pathfinder stuff when Paizo switched to their own ruleset.
For the same reason.
I stopped pre-ordering any Heinsoo 4E D&D books after I stopped DM'ing 4E around 9+ months ago. The last 4E books I had on pre-order were Underdark and Plane Below. I picked up the modules (HS1 and HS2) and settings (Hammerfast, Vor Rukoth), largely as impulse buys when I just happened to be at a gaming store at various times.
Awhile ago I picked up the Dark Sun and PHB3 books. I was playing a psionics character in the previous 4E Encounters season, which was in Dark Sun.
I gradually picked up the other 2010 4E Heinsoo books, such as Plane Above, Demonomicon, etc ... mostly buying them highly discounted from some web book retailers.
At the moment, I don't really see much that I would consider a "must buy" in the already announced 2011 4E titles. Though I'll check out the Shadowfell, Neverwinter, "Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium", and Gardmore Abbey books or box sets, to see whether they would be worth buying. For the more crunch heavy players options or compendium books, I would like to go through them first before deciding whether to continue buying any more 4E Mearls style mechanics books.
In regard to Pathfinder stuff after the release of the Pathfinder rpg core books in August 2009, I didn't see much point in buying the more crunch heavy rulebooks and supplement titles, since I wasn't playing or DM'ing a Pathfinder game. The adventure paths, modules, and region setting type supplement books were relatively easy to adapt to the 4E D&D games I was DM'ing back in late-2008 -> 2009.
At this point in time, the only instance where I could be inclined to play Pathfinder, would be if there was a local organized Pathfinder Society game. As far as I know, there are no Pathfinder Society games being played in my area within a 100 mile drive. I don't see much point in driving 2 hours to the next town over every week (or month) to play a Pathfinder Society game.
In terms of local Pathfinder or 3.5E D&D games I'm aware of (whether through ads posted up at local gaming stores, craigslist, etc ... or word of mouth), they have been far and few between. Typically the few local 3.5E/Pathfinder groups I came across were ones which only played once a month, and had frequent problems with players not showing up regularly. Not exactly an engaging game when only one or two players show up for a game, once a month.
Quote from: Fiasco;412821This isn't meant to be a woe is me story, just curious to see if others feel the same way. I am interested in other RPGs, plan on running an OD&D campaign, but I've always liked to stay in touch with the lastest edition of D&D as well. I feel like there has been a hole in my gaming world since mid 2007.
Not my case. My favourite RPG is RuneQuest III, from Avalon Hill, they stopped doing it many years ago, and that's it. I'm running
Griffin Island these days, an irregular
Vikings game, so I guess that the presence or absence of the game at the FLGS has no impact whatsoever.
I never payed attention to that, to be honest. Since I can buy through Internet most of my purchases are done that way, but here in Barcelona we have some outstanding stores, and it's nice to visit them. I just keep my eyes open, and don't expect them to carry any particular game. After all, if I need something specifical, there are many venues to get it.
I guess that I don't have any brand loyalty, either to a publisher or to a game. For me, this is a Golden Age because you have so much cool stuff available everywhere, not because stores carry the variety of products I like.
I would go back and fill in the gaps in game lines from the past, except...I already have almost everything I'd want for any given game I have already.
I don't miss buying expansion books. I've always been a little bit picky about exactly what I wanted to buy. But I miss the magazines. I used to pick up all kinds of magazines. Alarums and Excursions was my favorite, but I regularly picked up Shadis, Cryptich, Dungeon and Dragon (even when I wasn't playing much D&D) Space Gamer, Challenge, Pyramid, White Wolf/Inphobia, d8, and all the other little zines that came and went there for a while. I loved those things.
I tried to follow various websites back in the Geocities days, but they were hard to find. Blogs tend to be pretty specific in point of view, and pretty thin on usable game content. Podcasts are iffy. You get good game reviews, but not much else. Hit or miss interviews. Again, not much of anything I can take to the game table.
There was a great article in White Wolf (I think) about the South Louisiana arcology in Shadowrun. Cajun dwarves and whatnot. We actually gamed that out for a few months. That's the sort of thing I miss. I enjoyed looking at the huge variety of that kind of stuff, even if I wasn't going to take some particular thing to the table.
Quote from: Imperator;412887Since I can buy through Internet most of my purchases are done that way...
I buy almost all my RPG stuff through the Internet, too (including the out of print stuff I want). For some reason that isn't true for miniatures gaming, but it's definitely true for RPGs.
I miss buying D&D modules and poring through them, getting my imagination fired up, imagining how awesome it would be to play through. I never played through a lot of my modules, but I loved reading them. I haven't felt that way about a module in a long, long time. Like, probably since White Plume Mountain and Temple of Elemental Evil.
I'm interested in games beyond D&D, no matter the edition. I have the same feeling, but it's not related to D&D - it's because my FLGSes are increasingly empty. I used to be able to walk in and drop $100 a week and still not have everything I wanted. Now I might scrape together enough to buy $100. There just isn't enough product available.
Seanchai
Quote from: Seanchai;412895I have the same feeling, but it's not related to D&D - it's because my FLGSes are increasingly empty.
Over the years, the gaming stores nearby have changed their emphasis. Two have moved more towards collectible card games and board games, with a significant reduction in rpg games. The evening games at these places, are now mostly card games (ie. Magic, Yu-Gi-Oh, etc ...) with only a 4E D&D Encounters game once a week. No Pathfinder or any other rpg games. The rpg inventory is mostly a small 4E D&D section.
Quote from: ggroy;412902Over the years, the gaming stores nearby have changed their emphasis. Two have moved more towards collectible card games and board games, with a significant reduction in rpg games. The evening games at these places, are now mostly card games (ie. Magic, Yu-Gi-Oh, etc ...) with only a 4E D&D Encounters game once a week. No Pathfinder or any other rpg games. The rpg inventory is mostly a small 4E D&D section.
My two here in Denver always carried a large selection of wargames, board games, and card games. I've been visiting one since 1993 and one longer than that. There RPG section has always been
at least as large as each other individual type of product (almost, in some cases, greater than them combined). Until now.
Seanchai
I hear you guys, and I sort of felt wistful about it, too, but upon further consideration, I already have more systems then I'm ever going to run that I'm interested in. It keeps me busy.
I think as a few people have already hinted, age is a factor. Sure as you get older you may have more disposable income, but at the same time chances are:
1. You probably don't have as much free time as you used to.
2. You probably already have more gaming material than you will ever get to use.
3. You probably figured out by now that getting the latest game or supplement is going to make a lot less difference to your gaming than advertised.
Personally, I'd like to see myself trim down my game collection to just a handful of games that all get a lot of play. I've made progress in this direction, but there is still all to of dead wood I keep because I kind of like the art or it was hard to find in the first place. I'll get there.
Yeah. I expect to be disappointed with a rack of nothing but 4e stuff when I hit any of the nearby brick & mortar game stores. It's really sad when I can expect Borders and Barnes & Nobles (where I've found Pathfinder and Green Ronin stuff) have a better selection than my FLGS.
These days, I mainly go to the FLGS to get minis and treat the kids to ice cream (which they serve as a key part of their business).
Fortunately for me, the new gaming store doesn't serve ice cream but does carry Pathfinder and soon GR.
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;412834... I feel like my renewed interest in BRP and Runequest just opened this kind of thing up to me, again...
Quote from: Simlasa;412866The upswing in BRP stuff has me buying a lot more lately too...
Yes, we seem to be enjoying something of a 'BRP Renaissance (http://akraticwizardry.blogspot.com/2010/10/old-school-renaissance-at-least-with.html)' now!
Quote from: ggroy;412835Earlier this year, Mongoose Runequest 2 (MRQ2) sparked my interest again while simultaneously 4E D&D was already dropping off in my purchases.
...
But after the two major editing botch jobs (ie. MRQ2 Arms & Equipment and Necromancy), my interest fell flat again. At this point, I'm in a wait and see mode with each new MRQ2 release. Any further major botch jobs, and I'll probably forgo MRQ2 altogether.
Mongoose's editing incompetence has driven me away from purchasing most of their books.
Fortunately, the core MRQII book and
Monster Coliseum were adequately edited. And I'll get
Vikings soon (once I'm settled back in Toronto), since I'm a sucker for vikings (must be my Nordic blood). But, by Odin's plucked eye, Mongoose's unending editing problems make me gnash my teeth!
Fortunately, Mongoose isn't the only source for MRQII products. Cubicle 7's 'Clockwork and Chivalry' books are superb (but then I'm a huge fan of the 17th Century England). And there are cool things being produced for
BRP and
OpenQuest as well!
I know I'm repeating myself, but in the hopes of one day getting an answer: I REALLY wonder what the hell is going on with Mongoose's editing process. They are losing A LOT of business because of it. I'm convinced of it. It's been going on for YEARS, and they ARE aware of it. Yet, the problems persist. I just do not understand.
Quote from: Benoist;413023I know I'm repeating myself, but in the hopes of one day getting an answer: I REALLY wonder what the hell is going on with Mongoose's editing process. They are losing A LOT of business because of it. I'm convinced of it. It's been going on for YEARS, and they ARE aware of it. Yet, the problems persist. I just do not understand.
I know they lose mine. While in concept Mongoose Traveller is an excellent RPG their presentation and editing is as bad as with Traveller4. Combined with their higher prices, only rarely I buy something from them.
As for the why? Probably organization due to the volume of material they put out. They made several efforts in the past to improve the process but they always seems to lag behind. It might be interesting to look at the Mongoose books and the editing credits.
Quote from: Benoist;413023I know I'm repeating myself, but in the hopes of one day getting an answer: I REALLY wonder what the hell is going on with Mongoose's editing process. They are losing A LOT of business because of it. I'm convinced of it. It's been going on for YEARS, and they ARE aware of it. Yet, the problems persist. I just do not understand.
We probably won't hear about the real reasons, until some former Mongoose editors spill the beans.
The earliest we will hear something like this, will most likely be when such former disgruntled editors are completely out of the gaming industry or when Mongoose goes belly up.
If they're continuing to churn out a lot of titles in a given period of time at the expense of editing quality, it must be because they think it's working for them. That is, they must believe that they're getting more sales by churning out the books.
Maybe they are. You'd think sales would fall off because people would get wise and stop buying, or limit their purchases to only titles that get favorable word-of-mouth. However, Mongoose has been following the "churn 'em out" model for a long time. If they're continuing to do it, it must be because the books are continuing to sell.
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;413067If they're continuing to churn out a lot of titles in a given period of time at the expense of editing quality, it must be because they think it's working for them. That is, they must believe that they're getting more sales by churning out the books.
Maybe they are. You'd think sales would fall off because people would get wise and stop buying, or limit their purchases to only titles that get favorable word-of-mouth. However, Mongoose has been following the "churn 'em out" model for a long time. If they're continuing to do it, it must be because the books are continuing to sell.
There's also the possibility that the well edited books are selling enough copies, to subsidize the crappy edited books. After a year or two (or three), they throw the crappy books into the "out of print sale" section and eventually take a tax writeoff on it.
Matt Sprange probably knows very well that it is mainly the hardcore "completionists" who are mainly buying the other supplement books. As long as there are enough completionists continuing to buy the crappy books, he'll keep on cranking them out.
[Edit. Sorry guys, didn't read the last two posts before posting mine. Some replication there...]
Quote from: Benoist;413023I know I'm repeating myself, but in the hopes of one day getting an answer: I REALLY wonder what the hell is going on with Mongoose's editing process. They are losing A LOT of business because of it. I'm convinced of it. It's been going on for YEARS, and they ARE aware of it. Yet, the problems persist. I just do not understand.
The very same is true of FFG. No manner how absolutely shattering the reviews of new FFG books are as to the horrible editing standards, FFG waives their hands and says "we'll do better next time" - only to repeat the mess, or make it deteriorating further. Most recently, the outrage of the sloppy editing over Dark Heresy supplements (e.g. Ascension) was followed by some truly astonishing slips in the Deathwatch rulebook. The only conclusion to draw about either FFG or Mongoose is that the publisher doesn't care.
So the real question is why they do not care. I can think of only one of two scenarios:
A) Publisher is an idiot. He's not realizing he's losing sales.#
B) Publisher knows exactly what he's doing. Publisher did a simple cost/benefit calculation yeeeears ago on "how many customers do we lose vs. how much does it cost to pay someone for professional proofreading?".
I'm inclined towards B), if there weren't dozens of people out there who've repeatedly offer to proofread FFG stuff for free, some of them professional editors and proof readers. So it's actually,
C) Publisher knows exactly what he's doing. It's not worth to contract proof readers, either for free or for money. The majority of customers, except some whiny bitches on the internet, doesn't care either way.
I mean, come on guys, there's perhaps a dozen of us out there who gets really riled up about editing mistakes.
Quote from: Windjammer;413080I mean, come on guys, there's perhaps a dozen of us out there who gets really riled up about editing mistakes.
I have honestly no idea about that. I know that I personally tend to not care too much about little rules inconsistencies that can be fixed at the game table. What I do care about -a lot- is (1) the clarity of the book, that is, if you've got examples that don't match the rule and vice versa, that tends to confuse me, and that's a big deal to me, and (2) basic grammar and orthograph, words missing, i.e. straight text editing - that annoys me a great deal, because I feel I'm not getting the professional product I paid for.
Quote from: Windjammer;413080A) Publisher is an idiot. He's not realizing he's losing sales.
What would be amusing if this was indeed the real story behind the editing botch jobs.
With that being said, one obvious scenario I can think of offhand for this being the case, would be if such companies are being subsidized by "sugar daddies" of some sort.
In some ways, the WotC/TSR novel divisions weren't much more than a huge "vanity press" with several big hits (ie. Salvatore, Dragonlance trilogy, etc ...) and tons of mediocre stuff.
Wonder how these same WotC/TSR novels would have sold if one removed the D&D, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, etc ... brand names from the front covers.
Quote from: ggroy;413085In some ways, the WotC/TSR novel divisions weren't much more than a huge "vanity press" with several big hits (ie. Salvatore, Dragonlance trilogy, etc ...) and tons of mediocre stuff.
Wonder how these same WotC/TSR novels would have sold if one removed the D&D, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, etc ... brand names from the front covers.
Certainly not as well, but I don't know if they'd have tanked. I mean... when you go to Chapters, look at the fantasy aisle and the other publications these books are shelved with... most of them are complete and utter shit, honestly.
Quote from: Benoist;413089Certainly not as well, but I don't know if they'd have tanked. I mean... when you go to Chapters, look at the fantasy aisle and the other publications these books are shelved with... most of them are complete and utter shit, honestly.
The same could be said of many comic books.
Quote from: ggroy;413090The same could be said of many comic books.
I can't say I know the Comic books market enough to have an opinion one way or the other.
Quote from: Seanchai;412909My two here in Denver always carried a large selection of wargames, board games, and card games. I've been visiting one since 1993 and one longer than that. There RPG section has always been at least as large as each other individual type of product (almost, in some cases, greater than them combined). Until now.
Seanchai
Which two? I'm still fond of the grand wall of games at Black & Read, myself.
I don't find as much to buy on various visits either, even though I am 4E positive - I just don't feel the need to buy everything immediately. I tend to buy much more online, and am happily looking forward to my Lulu order arriving with, among other things, the latest issue of Fight On.
(I did visit B&R this last weekend, and walked away with the Marshall's Handbook for Deadlands (SW) and Hammerfast, the latter of which was in the used section.)
Well, regarding "buying & gaming" I don't feel the desperation. I started my new campaign at D&D 3.5 on Saturday and I placed an order for 3.5 books on Amazon today. True, these books will dwindle and dwindle, and seeing "The Magic Items Compendium" priced at $130 or more is sobering (new, not used) - but I also find bargains like hardcover versions of other books in mint condition at $9,99.
The problem with 4E, as I often posted here, is not only that the system sucks golf balls through a watering cane, but also that the contents suck bowling balls through a pipeline. I don't know if the quality of the books improved over time, but when the cosmology makes "World of Warcraft" look like something out of Plato and the Forgotten Realms are written for 5 years old by 5 years old there isn't much to look forward to - not even in the "give me the ideas, I'll adapt them to the 3.5 system" department.
But, then again the amount of old stuff I still have to read/use/enjoy is so vast that I wonder if I will burn out as a player before I burn out my old D&Ds reserve - not to mention all the other systems out there (BRP and Cthulhu in primis). My only worry, frankly, is that I have only so much money to spend for my hobby every month, and I'm not sure I'll be able to get all the old supplements I wish to have (in traditional book format, I mean) before they become so rare to have prices going through the roof.
[Something I never worried about until, right today, I saw the prices asked for the "Magic Items Compendium"]
Quote from: Reckall;413096True, these books will dwindle and dwindle, and seeing "The Magic Items Compendium" priced at $130 or more is sobering (new, not used) - but I also find bargains like hardcover versions of other books in mint condition at $9,99.
Take what you see on Amazon with a huge grain of salt. Some sellers put stuff on there at a crazy price just to see if some geek with more cash than common sense will come along and shell out the ducats.
I bought my 3.5 Magic Items Compendium on e-bay for $25.00 including shipping.
Quote from: ggroy;413085Wonder how these same WotC/TSR novels would have sold if one removed the D&D, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, etc ... brand names from the front covers.
Maybe withouth the "we sell the brand!" mentality there would be more editorial control. I honestly don't know. A couple of years ago a friend of mine lent me some books of "The Harpers" series because I was looking for some ideas for my campaign. A couple were forgettable, one was really lame, but then I stumbled upon "Elfshadow", which, in my opinion, was a very good fantasy yarn (basically a Robert Ludlum novel but set in the Forgotten Realms - not a bad mix).
Fast forward to this summer, and I found two sequels to "Elfshadow" in a library in San Francisco (I live in Italy, I was there for my job). I bought them and, while I still have to read them, it looked obvious to me how the editors of the serie were able to recognise quality (or at least literary decency) when they saw it. Problem is: the other books weren't killed before publishing. "We sell the brand" mentality, as I said. Without the brand maybe they would have pushed harder. Who knows?
BTW, I read the first Drizzt novel when it was published (1987). I was a kid, so I should have been in the right demographic, but I remember finding it "decent, not much more" - and the two sequels were of decreasing quality to the point of boredoom. I never read another Drizzt novel again. Maybe Salvatore improved over time. But if Drizzt became the "signature character of the Realms, perhaps even more than Elminster" then one should ask some questions about the readers too, and not only about the editors.
Quote from: PaladinCA;413099Take what you see on Amazon with a huge grain of salt. Some sellers put stuff on there at a crazy price just to see if some geek with more cash than common sense will come along and shell out the ducats.
I know :) But I find the other books reasonably priced - many of them sold at bargain price actually (I put some books in "the basket" a few days ago, and today when I logged in I was informed that the price for three of them had decreased. Not to mention how with the current Euro vs. Dollar ratio Amazon beats all forms of import.
That $130+ for the Magic Items Compendium, however, was out of the blue (and that was the lowest price, some affiliates were asking even more) - and I wonder why it's so.
Quote from: Windjammer;413080The very same is true of FFG. No manner how absolutely shattering the reviews of new FFG books are as to the horrible editing standards, FFG waives their hands and says "we'll do better next time" - only to repeat the mess, or make it deteriorating further. Most recently, the outrage of the sloppy editing over Dark Heresy supplements (e.g. Ascension) was followed by some truly astonishing slips in the Deathwatch rulebook. The only conclusion to draw about either FFG or Mongoose is that the publisher doesn't care.
What happened with Deathwatch (haven't got it yet)?
Quote from: jcfiala;413093Which two?
Attactix and Bonnie Brae.
Seanchai
Quote from: Seanchai;413111Attactix and Bonnie Brae.
Seanchai
Ooh. I haven't really gone to Bonnie Brae that often - it never grabbed me back when it was a dust shrouded dark cave of a store - but the last time I was in Attactix I seriously was wondering if they were going out of business and I hadn't heard, the shelves were so bare.
(I'm over by 6th and Federal, so I don't get to Attactix very often.)
There's a new store out by Kipling and Jewel that's opening up, IIRC. "Mythplaced Treasures", is the name, although it sounds like that's as far out of your usual neighborhoods as Attactix is for me.
I think Nan's is probably the best store for RPGs that's anywhere near me (i.e. Houston area).
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;413067If they're continuing to churn out a lot of titles in a given period of time at the expense of editing quality, it must be because they think it's working for them. That is, they must believe that they're getting more sales by churning out the books.
Maybe they are. You'd think sales would fall off because people would get wise and stop buying, or limit their purchases to only titles that get favorable word-of-mouth. However, Mongoose has been following the "churn 'em out" model for a long time. If they're continuing to do it, it must be because the books are continuing to sell.
I don't deny that this probably is the case. All I can say is that
I refuse to buy poorly edited books from professional RPG companies, irrespective of their profitability. [Insert obligatory 'McDonalds' analogy here.]
(I'm slightly more forgiving of hobbyist/indie products. Ironically, though, those products often are as well edited as, if not better edited than, professional products.)
For this reason (among others) I eventually turned away from TLG, and only very rarely purchase Mongoose books (I wait for a few months after a Mongoose book has been published before I contemplate purchasing it).
In the case of MRQII, it's a
real shame IMO, as I think that it's the best FRPG currently being published by a professional RPG company. Damn I wish that Cubicle 7 -- or, hell, Chaosium -- were producing MRQII instead of Mongoose!
Quote from: ggroy;413073There's also the possibility that the well edited books are selling enough copies, to subsidize the crappy edited books. After a year or two (or three), they throw the crappy books into the "out of print sale" section and eventually take a tax writeoff on it.
Matt Sprange probably knows very well that it is mainly the hardcore "completionists" who are mainly buying the other supplement books. As long as there are enough completionists continuing to buy the crappy books, he'll keep on cranking them out.
This strikes me as plausible. I suspect that people who care about editing, layout (and clear maps!) have long ago come to view Mongoose with a jaundiced eye.
Re OP: I am not feeling the pressure to buy new stuff. Most mainstream modern gaming material leaves me cold, 4e or not. Actually, much of my inspiration in the last few years has come from non-gaming sources - history, politics, society and so forth. The money comes in handy for other things, and if I really feel the need to buy a game book or two, I can plonk down the cash when I like. The problem is finding the time to properly read them. And I still have to run a lot of the Necromancer/Goodman modules I bought years ago. Maybe I need to get a local 3.0 game going for a change of pace now that my long-running campaign has concluded. Hmm.
Quote from: ggroy;413073There's also the possibility that the well edited books are selling enough copies, to subsidize the crappy edited books. After a year or two (or three), they throw the crappy books into the "out of print sale" section and eventually take a tax writeoff on it.
Sure. I lump that into "churning out books is working for them."
Quote from: jcfiala;413114Ooh. I haven't really gone to Bonnie Brae that often - it never grabbed me back when it was a dust shrouded dark cave of a store - but the last time I was in Attactix I seriously was wondering if they were going out of business and I hadn't heard, the shelves were so bare.
Yeah, Attactix is bare. Definitely not going out of business, but outside 4e and Pathfinder to a degree, they don't seem to have much to fill their shelves with.
Bonnie Brae has recently been dusted. They reorganized a bit and don't have as many out of print games cluttered everywhere. But even they don't have much in the way of new product.
Quote from: jcfiala;413114(I'm over by 6th and Federal, so I don't get to Attactix very often.)
I'm in the town of Bennett.
Quote from: jcfiala;413114There's a new store out by Kipling and Jewel that's opening up, IIRC. "Mythplaced Treasures", is the name, although it sounds like that's as far out of your usual neighborhoods as Attactix is for me.
If it's cool, let us know. I still really want to swing my Total Escape Games in Broomfield sometime, but every time I plan to and am out that way, something comes up...
Seanchai
Quote from: Seanchai;413153I still really want to swing my Total Escape Games in Broomfield sometime, but every time I plan to and am out that way, something comes up...
I went there once right after they opened. It's a fairly small shop. It's nice and clean. They have a good selection of miniatures. They have several small shelves for RPGs. However, even for their small quantity of RPGs, they do have a wide selection of different types of RPGs (i.e., Indy and Trad).
They have two small rooms to play in, and a couple of open tables for miniature gaming.
Quote from: Akrasia;413124[Insert obligatory 'McDonalds' analogy here.]
The McMongoose hiring McEditors to produce McCrap books. :p
Quote from: Akrasia;413124For this reason (among others) I eventually turned away from TLG
I stopped buying TLG books shortly after Castles & Crusades was released. The subsequent modules produced for C&C were kinda on the boring side.
After that, the only titles I picked up were the Gygax written ones.
Quote from: Benoist;413105What happened with Deathwatch (haven't got it yet)?
Ladies and gentlemen, I present the review (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=179&efcid=3&efidt=389308) which turned me off buying Deathwatch. Bless this guys at DarkReign for cross posting their stuff at the fanboy HQ.
Quote from: Akrasia;413020Fortunately, Mongoose isn't the only source for MRQII products. Cubicle 7's 'Clockwork and Chivalry' books are superb (but then I'm a huge fan of the 17th Century England).
I'll have to check this one out. Nearby gaming stores don't carry the more "niche of a niche" stuff. Though one older store in another part of town does at least carry a copy or two of such "niche of a niche" stuff.
I also no longer see new items on gaming shelves that I want to purchase very often. I have zero interest in 4E or any WotC product at this point. I do have a lot of interest in PF books but I tend to buy online because I save so much money. I do still go to gaming stores however. I love looking through bargain bins when I can. You never know when you will stumble upon a gem amongst the rubble. That is how I found Everstone. There is also the 'atmosphere' of a gaming store. Even with the occasional 'funk'. :)
Long live the 3.5 OGL! :)
Quote from: PaladinCA;413099Take what you see on Amazon with a huge grain of salt. Some sellers put stuff on there at a crazy price just to see if some geek with more cash than common sense will come along and shell out the ducats.
I bought my 3.5 Magic Items Compendium on e-bay for $25.00 including shipping.
I always price my Amazon listings reasonably because I want to *sell* them. As soon as possible. I want them gone.
Quote from: Tetsubo;413245Long live the 3.5 OGL! :)
Watch in a few centuries from now, the remaining tabletop rpg documents left are the 3.5E SRD and other OGL'd digital SRD type documents stored in some archive.org type web sites, frozen in time. By then, most printed rpg books would be long gone in landfills, museum pieces, or destroyed by the environment.
Quote from: ggroy;413248Watch in a few centuries from now, the remaining tabletop rpg documents left are the 3.5E SRD and other OGL'd digital SRD type documents stored in some archive.org type web sites, frozen in time. By then, most printed rpg books would be long gone in landfills, museum pieces, or destroyed by the environment.
Well, other than "Encounter Critical", which will be the central religious document of one of the major cults.
Quote from: ggroy;413248Watch in a few centuries from now, the remaining tabletop rpg documents left are the 3.5E SRD and other OGL'd digital SRD type documents stored in some archive.org type web sites, frozen in time. By then, most printed rpg books would be long gone in landfills, museum pieces, or destroyed by the environment.
They got the library in Alexandria, they aren't getting mine! My collection shall reseed the future with RPGs!
Quote from: jcfiala;413249Well, other than "Encounter Critical", which will be the central religious document of one of the major cults.
The cult of Mongoose. :p
Quote from: Tetsubo;413250They got the library in Alexandria, they aren't getting mine! My collection shall reseed the future with RPGs!
The 3.5E SRD and other OGL'd SRD documents, being engraved into steel plates or stone tablets. :)
Quote from: jcfiala;413249Well, other than "Encounter Critical", which will be the central religious document of one of the major cults.
The cult rolling a critical failure, is prophetic orders from the Orcus to commit mass suicide. :p
Quote from: ggroy;413252The 3.5E SRD and other OGL'd SRD documents, being engraved into steel plates or stone tablets. :)
Or launched into space with the Voyager XY, as a perennial testimony of Earth as it was before 4E :D
Quote from: ggroy;413248Watch in a few centuries from now, the remaining tabletop rpg documents left are the 3.5E SRD and other OGL'd digital SRD type documents stored in some archive.org type web sites, frozen in time. By then, most printed rpg books would be long gone in landfills, museum pieces, or destroyed by the environment.
That's the other way around. A few centuries from now, trillions of gigabytes will have disappeared from the surface of the Earth. Only a tiny weeny bit of data will make it into new formats. Very few computers will remain, and still be functional. The Good Old Books with Pages -gasp!- and Ink -gasp!-, however, might survive. Especially the AD&D DMG, which as everyone knows can take on a rocket in mid-flight and survive.
Benoist: Yeah, digital content is pretty fragile all things considered. While most of it can be accessed by anyone with a net connection, precious little exists in more than a few copies, and that's dangerously like classical manuscripts. Even if we don't assume global wars and enormous natural disasters, data formats and storage devices go obsolote at a rapid pace. My PC hasn't had a floppy drive for five or six years; the old magnetic reels might be read by a few remaining machines, but you can't bet that will always be the case. A few decades ago, maybe in the 70s, there was an exhibition of digital art whose works were stored on the computers of the day, and they can no longer be accessed without serious effort, while the paper catalogues might still be around.
Of course, even if you have the data and the ability to decode it, much content will simply be lost because of disinterest, deletion and random failure. Granted, you can still read much of USENET thanks to Google (although they already had to ask people to donate their data to reconstruct parts of it). But you can't read Geocities anymore because Geocities was pulled off the Internet. Sure, most of it was shitty personal pages with animated gifs and "Under Construction" signs created by teenagers, but that 1% good content could be valuable for future digital historians.
If you want to bet on the future, bet on the sturdy hardcover that can stop bullets.
Quote from: Melan;413297If you want to bet on the future, bet on the sturdy hardcover that can stop bullets.
I'll be back when I finish carving the Rules Cyclopedia into the interior of the Great Pyramid.
Shit, do you think our descendants will figure out the polyhedrons? Should I try to leave them some schematics?
Yup, exactly what I'm talking about, Melan.
Not to mention the fact digital data keeps getting lost at much higher rate than people actually know about.
*still can't find that posting he made back in 1997 for his Inuyasha fanfic*
That too.
Quote from: winkingbishop;413300I'll be back when I finish carving the Rules Cyclopedia into the interior of the Great Pyramid.
Shit, do you think our descendants will figure out the polyhedrons? Should I try to leave them some schematics?
Unfortunately the great pyramid has one side too many to just be a big d4, otherwise we'd be set.
Quote from: Cole;413309Unfortunately the great pyramid has one side too many to just be a big d4, otherwise we'd be set.
Rolling it would be a bitch anyway, but you could mount it on some sort of plate and spin it "wheel of fortune" style after carving a number on each face.
More data is lost today because there is so much more data than MANKIND HAS EVER HAD BEFORE IN THE HISTORY OF OUR SPECIES.
If we lost as much data now as existed in the entire world during the time of the Library of Alexandria, it would hardly be noticeable.
People who talk about how computers are going to be the death of learning or are a menace to real human knowledge or all that other bullshit need something to explain to them the sheer fucking size of Wikipedia alone.
Some people with a certain degree of vision compare the internet to the printing press in terms of the long-term impact it will have on human civilization. They are wrong. The only thing that comes even close to representing the kind of innovation that the internet represents is not the development of the printing press, but the invention of the written word itself.
We live at the cusp of the greatest moment in human development since we came out of caves and into cities. So fuck off with the cynicism about floppy disks, you short-sighted cunts.
RPGPundit
Well, excuse me to talk about an issue that all the professionals of information and documentations have been concerned with for twenty or more years, Pundit. The issues of format, changes in technology and the durability of information over time is a REAL concern nobody gives a fuck about but the most informed professionals of the field.
I sure am not excluding some amazing technological advances that somehow solve these problems once and for all some time in our future, but if it weren't for people like us who actually do care about such issues in the first place, such future advances wouldn't have a chance in hell to ever take place.
So you fuck off with your blinded, one-dimensional faith in human progress. :)
I love both you guys. :p:D
Quote from: RPGPundit;413740More data is lost today because there is so much more data than MANKIND HAS EVER HAD BEFORE IN THE HISTORY OF OUR SPECIES.
What makes you think we are losing data?
The low cost of scanners, the near-zero cost of memory and the million micro-niches of fandom pretty much guarrantee that everything ever published, coded or filmed will be with us into the future.
As for faulty floppies, there are whole IT companies devoted to data retreival so if some great masterwork only exists on a single damaged floppy, we even have the tech to save some, most or all of it.
Quote from: RPGPundit;413740We live at the cusp of the greatest moment in human development since we came out of caves and into cities.
Maybe.
I can see the loss of net neutrality in the US derailing that progress. Once that happens, the net-filtering by nations (for your own good!) will jump exponentially. Maybe that will just slow down the inevitable progress.
Though, I am not entirely sure the web offers a greater increase in "human development" more than TV. I see the web's potential for impact, but TV had phenomenal potential that was never realized as well.
That said, I sympathize with those who mourn the passing of physical books. As eReaders progress in the next decade, the next generation won't feel the same connection as we may have.
I miss album covers. Record art was frequently awesome and that's gone in the age of iTunes. However, I absolutely love my iPod and its easily my favorite piece of "new tech" that I own.
I love this site. :p :D
I'm glad I can make your day, Ben. ;)
Quote from: Spinachcat;413777That said, I sympathize with those who mourn the passing of physical books. As eReaders progress in the next decade, the next generation won't feel the same connection as we may have.
I miss album covers. Record art was frequently awesome and that's gone in the age of iTunes. However, I absolutely love my iPod and its easily my favorite piece of "new tech" that I own.
I never, ever purchase music from the apple store. I always buy CDs and load them up to the computer.
At some point in the future, iTunes files have to be purchased anew because they can only be uploaded to so many computers. Even if that's not the case, it would be easy for them all to get wiped. With a real cd you get an automatic hardcopy, all the albumn art, lyri, all that, plus you own something tangible. I won't ever buy electronic media as long as the real stuff is available.
The other issue with iTunes, what happens if Apple cancels it? Or makes iTunes2, where you have to rebuy all your music? CDs are pretty cheap these days, and I still buy them.
(Back on topic).
Wonder how many 4E players have already "burned out" on Heinsoo 4E, and 4E Essentials isn't doing much of anything to spark up or revive interest.
Back in the 3.5E D&D era, I didn't burn out on 3.5E until towards the end (ie. early-2008).
At this point, 4E Encounters and 4E Essentials isn't reviving much interest for me whatsoever. Just two years of playing 4E D&D on and off, and it's already burning out for me.
Wonder how many other 4E players are in such a situation.
What's wrong with going off topic when it's obvious our fearless leader has something to say?
*I would invoke the ire...if I felt like it*
Quote from: ggroy;414059Back in the 3.5E D&D era, I didn't burn out on 3.5E until towards the end (ie. early-2008).
Probably this would deserve his own thread, but II usually don't burn-out on games, but on narrative/character ideas. Then, that 3.5E still gives me an idea a minute for sure helps.
Quote from: Nightfall;414070What's wrong with going off topic when it's obvious our fearless leader has something to say?
*I would invoke the ire...if I felt like it*
Nothing, but it is also good for the topic to continue to vaguely resemble the actual subject at the top of the thread.
Occasional deviations are allowed (and not just if started by me) but generally speaking if a sidetrack in the thread really starts to take off, it might be a better idea to start new threads about the new subjects.
Except with stuff like the two "Forge closes" threads. Those are just beautiful clusterfucks and no one was really expecting anything less.
RPGPundit
(Back on topic)
If you're interested in an OD&D game (as the OP says), there is a lot of material on the net for the early editions. New stuff. The difficulty is that you've got to change the mental default away from the game store and onto the internet.
For OD&D specifically, take a look at the Swords & Wizardry material from Brave Halfling and from Frog God Games (direct sellers). Also take a look at Fight On! magazine and Land of NOD (both on Lulu.com). Check out Knockspell Magazine (currently being sold by Black Blade Publishing).
If you expand the desired level of compatibility to AD&D, look at Expeditious Retreat Press (the code-word for AD&D is "OSRIC"), look at the Footprints magazine (free) from Dragonsfoot. Lots of material is out there for the obtaining, much of it free, much of it for sale.