TheRPGSite

The d4 doesn't roll well, and it cripples you if you step on one.

The d12 has so much potential.  It rolls well, and it's result is very easy to read.  It needs to get more love than it does.

I found some d12's which are numbered 1-4 three times. The fun of a d12, the utility of a d4. Win-win.

Quote from: Razor 007;1085039The d4 doesn't roll well, and it cripples you if you step on one.

The d12 has so much potential.  It rolls well, and it's result is very easy to read.  It needs to get more love than it does.

er?  The d12 actually does pop up in some board games. Also a few years ago I made a mini game for a contest where the game had to use a d12. There is also the Cthulhu Dice game which uses a d12. Havent seen it on shelves in a while though. And I think it last year was playtesting someones mini RPG that used a d12.

Whats really interesting is how frequently the d8 shows up in board games.

I have basically the same feelings about d4s and d12s.

My system steps up your damage die with proficient weapons periodically as you level up. By level 6 no one uses a d4 anymore (unless you are not proficient with daggers for some reason). By level 11 a longsword wielded with proficiency uses a d12.

Quote from: finarvyn;1085040I found some d12's which are numbered 1-4 three times. The fun of a d12, the utility of a d4. Win-win.

Where?! Where!? :eek:

..or you could use your d12, and using your head, simply divide the result shows up by three rounded up to get your 1d4 result. d12 roll, 1 to 3=1, 4 to 6=2, 7 to 9=3, and 10 to12=4. So simple and elegant.

Quote from: Vile;1085075Where?! Where!? :eek:

These are the ones I use: https://www.amazon.com/Chessex-Specialty-Speckled-Arctic-Polyhedral/dp/B01HQVH580/ref=sr_1_19?keywords=d4&qid=1556552511&s=toys-and-games&sr=1-19 (https://www.amazon.com/Chessex-Specialty-Speckled-Arctic-Polyhedral/dp/B01HQVH580/ref=sr_1_19?keywords=d4&qid=1556552511&s=toys-and-games&sr=1-19)

If you do a little searching on places like Amazon, you should be able to find others. I know there's an actual 4-sided version of the d4 that's much better as well, but I haven't actually played with it.

Quote from: Omega;1085065er?  The d12 actually does pop up in some board games. Also a few years ago I made a mini game for a contest where the game had to use a d12. There is also the Cthulhu Dice game which uses a d12. Havent seen it on shelves in a while though. And I think it last year was playtesting someones mini RPG that used a d12.

And don't forget Pokethulhu!

Quote from: GameDaddy;1085079..or you could use your d12, and using your head, simply divide the result shows up by three rounded up to get your 1d4 result. d12 roll, 1 to 3=1, 4 to 6=2, 7 to 9=3, and 10 to12=4. So simple and elegant.

I really dislike doing even simple math on dice results. A chain of math (roll dice, divide result to get another value, apply any modifiers) means more opportunities for error.
That's part of the reason why I got some of the odder dice. (d3, d5, d7, etc.)

Is the d12 really less common than d4? It seems to me games that use either use the full range d3 to d20 or they just use d6. I can't think of a game that has d4 without the others. As a damage die the d12 might be used a little less simply because d12 is usually limited to the largest weapons.


Personally I like when games play with variations of possible dice rolls to create slight alterations in minimum and average damage done. Say weapons with with a max damage of 12, you can use 1d12, 2d6, 1d8+1d4, 3d4, 1d10+2 and 1d8+4. Gives weapons a little different feel without escalating damage by simply adding dice.

d4 is probably more common for old schoolers on grounds of magic-user and (some) thief hit dice, daggers, and magic missiles. d12s only really show up for longsword damage against large creatures.

Quote from: Brand55;1085081These are the ones I use: https://www.amazon.com/Chessex-Specialty-Speckled-Arctic-Polyhedral/dp/B01HQVH580/ref=sr_1_19?keywords=d4&qid=1556552511&s=toys-and-games&sr=1-19 (https://www.amazon.com/Chessex-Specialty-Speckled-Arctic-Polyhedral/dp/B01HQVH580/ref=sr_1_19?keywords=d4&qid=1556552511&s=toys-and-games&sr=1-19)

If you do a little searching on places like Amazon, you should be able to find others. I know there's an actual 4-sided version of the d4 that's much better as well, but I haven't actually played with it.

Yeah, that's what mine look like -- Roman numerals and all. I have some speckled ones like those and a couple gray ones, but they gray ones are harder to read. My wife tried the speckled ones for a magic missile spell and they rolled awesome for her, and at the moment she refuses to return them. :)

For d4, I use these:

http://www.gamescience.com/Gamescience%C2%AE-Four-Most-Die--Red--d8-1-4-2x--Eight-sided-die--Plain_p_28.html

I like the colors as being slightly off so you can easily pick the d4 out from the d8.

For d12 use: During my AD&D time, d12 got a lot of use due to it's use as the damage die for long sword vs. large creatures. Later, it saw decent use in a college friend's home brew. In his system, if you had a +2 weapon that normally did 1d8 damage, instead of rolling 1d8+2 you rolled 1d12. In the system, you always minimized adds to damage dice, so you looked for a die combination using multiples of the same die with the same average, so there was the simple progression d4 -> d6 -> d8 -> d10 -> d12, or 2d4 -> 2d4+1 -> 2d6 -> 2d6+1 -> 2d8 -> 2d8+1 -> 2d10 -> 2d10+1 -> 2d12). Rune Quest 1 and 2 uses d12 for a few weapons damage.

In contrast, while I like the idea of d6 only games, it always bums me out to not have a use for all the polyhedral dice in my collection...

Frank

Quote from: finarvyn;1085040I found some d12's which are numbered 1-4 three times. The fun of a d12, the utility of a d4. Win-win.

I need these in my life.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1085149d4 is probably more common for old schoolers on grounds of magic-user and (some) thief hit dice, daggers, and magic missiles. d12s only really show up for longsword damage against large creatures.

In the Pathfinder Playtest, I saw 3 weapons doing d12 damage now; so the times have changed.

Greataxe
Greatsword
Maul

However; in D&D 5E, the Greatsword and Maul do 2d6.

EDIT: scooped by Finarvyn!

My D4s don't suck because they are D12s with 3 sets of 1-4 on them.

So worth the purchase to leave behind those damn caltrops.

I give d12's more love by using them for initiative rolls. This works with any D&D-based game.

Quote from: Toadmaster;1085147Is the d12 really less common than d4?

No.

The d4 is currently the least used of the polyhedrals. The d8 is oddly the most used outside RPGs. I have a couple that use the d8. I can not think of a single board game that uses a d4. And aside from maybee Ironclaw I am not sure hardly any RPGs other than D&D and GammaWorld use a d4. Call of Cthulhu?

Quote from: GameDaddy;1085079..or you could use your d12, and using your head, simply divide the result shows up by three rounded up to get your 1d4 result. d12 roll, 1 to 3=1, 4 to 6=2, 7 to 9=3, and 10 to12=4. So simple and elegant.

For whatever reason, I've always tended to use modulo rather than division for this sort of die-reduction.  So I would read 1-4 as-is, then 5-8 as 1-4 again, and 9-12 as the third set of 1-4.  (1, 5, 9 = 1; 2, 6, 10 = 2; 3, 7, 11 = 3; 4, 8, 12 = 4)

While I really like the idea of the d12s numbered 1-4 three times in principle, I would expect them to create confusion in games which use both d4 and d12 because you would have to look at the print on the die to know which one you're rolling instead of being able to go solely on its shape.  (I'm generally not a fan of dedicated decile dice (a d10 numbered 10, 20, 30... instead of 1, 2, 3...) for the same reason.)

Quote from: nDervish;1085269For whatever reason, I've always tended to use modulo rather than division for this sort of die-reduction.  So I would read 1-4 as-is, then 5-8 as 1-4 again, and 9-12 as the third set of 1-4.  (1, 5, 9 = 1; 2, 6, 10 = 2; 3, 7, 11 = 3; 4, 8, 12 = 4)

While I really like the idea of the d12s numbered 1-4 three times in principle, I would expect them to create confusion in games which use both d4 and d12 because you would have to look at the print on the die to know which one you're rolling instead of being able to go solely on its shape.  (I'm generally not a fan of dedicated decile dice (a d10 numbered 10, 20, 30... instead of 1, 2, 3...) for the same reason.)

That's why I like the Gamescience 8-sided d4, they use a color palette that is unusual, so I can easily pick them out from the d8. Also the truncated point helps distinguish them from d8s.

I remember one guy who used to miss a lot in a game that used roll high percentile dice (actually not percentile... really the first two decimal places in a random number between 0 and 1...). He kept rolling a d20 and reading 11-19 as 1 rather than as 1-9...

Others have not realized they were rolling a 20-sided d10 and not the d20 and thus kept missing (never rolling an 11-20...).

Frank

Quote from: Omega;1085251No.

The d4 is currently the least used of the polyhedrals. The d8 is oddly the most used outside RPGs. I have a couple that use the d8. I can not think of a single board game that uses a d4. And aside from maybee Ironclaw I am not sure hardly any RPGs other than D&D and GammaWorld use a d4. Call of Cthulhu?

That's oddly unintuitive. I'd have thought that the D6 still reigned supreme outside of rpgs.

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1085349That's oddly unintuitive. I'd have thought that the D6 still reigned supreme outside of rpgs.

Me too.

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1085349That's oddly unintuitive. I'd have thought that the D6 still reigned supreme outside of rpgs.

I think Omega was excluding the d6 from the list.

Quote from: Omega;1085251And aside from maybee Ironclaw I am not sure hardly any RPGs other than D&D and GammaWorld use a d4. Call of Cthulhu?

Savage Worlds uses it.

I sometimes use d12s instead of d6s in Simple Superheroes, since the probabilities are basically the same (slightly less advantageous for defense Talents, since defenders win on ties). I do this more when we play planetary or cosmic games, seems to make it feel more epic.

I've been playtesting a fantasy hack of SS that uses all d12s.

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1085349That's oddly unintuitive. I'd have thought that the D6 still reigned supreme outside of rpgs.

I expect the comments about d8s are meant as "other than d6s, you see a surprising number of d8s, but not really any other polyhedrals in boardgames."
Risk 2210 and Battlestar Galactica both use d8s. I think these were relatively early games to use d8s (and popular).

Wait --- we're disclaiming the value of having a weapon as a gaming tool? Oh, the disadulation :(

When I roll a 1 on a d4, I can't complain. Spread's too close. It's almost a win because there's no 0 on the die. Give me a d6, d8 or better and when I roll a 1 --- AYFKKM?!?!?! It's Frodo getting stung & webbed up by Shelob: I don't want to talk to anybody at the table for 5-10 minutes.

But, my dice no longer perform as such. After many years as a (somewhat) decent GM, I've assembled the Illuminati Dicebag, to the point that I roll out in the open for everything because --- YES! (followed by much lamentation)

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1085349That's oddly unintuitive. I'd have thought that the D6 still reigned supreme outside of rpgs.

The d6 sees a ton of use. But over the decades various publishers have gone with the d8. Not many used the d10 though outside RPGs. Its less used than the d12 for board games. I am not sure why the d8 became so popular.

Quote from: Thondor;1085410I expect the comments about d8s are meant as "other than d6s, you see a surprising number of d8s, but not really any other polyhedrals in boardgames."
Risk 2210 and Battlestar Galactica both use d8s. I think these were relatively early games to use d8s (and popular).

Theres older games from the 80s that did. Not sure if any pre-80s use a d8 though. I'd have to look around.

Jumanji from 95 uses d8s.
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/imagepage/img/NgHXeu3jJJVnne_0MyBjfKeaJdo=/fit-in/900x600/filters:no_upscale()/pic211313.jpg)

But the first I ever got with a d8 was Shadowlord in 83
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/imagepage/img/hS7tjUKBUgItRmJ6Iq513ygZED0=/fit-in/900x600/filters:no_upscale()/pic322184.jpg)
As does Dune from 84 (same designer.)

And Cloak and Dagger from 84 was the board game was thinking of that used a d12.
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/imagepage/img/O5jhfQPyU9ypeR7rsl-mr0Gj02s=/fit-in/900x600/filters:no_upscale()/pic1523819.jpg)

Dark World from 91 is one board game I recall using a d10 by the way. Fortress America from 89 used a d10 too and a d8.

And Football Fever from around 81 used all sorts of polyhedrals. Football shaped d4!
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/imagepage/img/DigFKUGwJ5VSgZx6v1b-VGAVeag=/fit-in/900x600/filters:no_upscale()/pic308396.jpg)

Global Pursuit from I believe 87 used an oddly large d12. Globetrotters from 84 is another that used a d12.

Sorry, no clue how to post/link a pic, but the board game Unearth uses d4s, d6s, and d8s. It's new though. 2017, I think.

Quote from: Graewulf;1085517Sorry, no clue how to post/link a pic, but the board game Unearth uses d4s, d6s, and d8s. It's new though. 2017, I think.

Anything post 90s has a higher chance of having one or more polyhedrals in there somewhere. Though the good ol' d6 still reigns supreme.

One of the reasons you dont see as many non d6 dice in games is cost. Polyhedrals tend to cost a bit more than regular dice. And the price climbs if they have special icons. The subject comes up now and then over on BGG when someone considers odd dice for their games and are trying to find a good source.

Quote from: Razor 007;1085039The d12 has so much potential.  It rolls well,

The problem is it rolls too well.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1085570The problem is it rolls too well.

Pretty much. How many times have you tossed one only to have to hunt for it on the floor and convince everyone that the face value you show them is the one it actually landed on?

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1085570The problem is it rolls too well.

A Rolling Box is a cool accessory at the gaming table.

Quote from: Razor 007;1085625A Rolling Box is a cool accessory at the gaming table.

Keyword: Accessory. It's an additional expense, and d12s will still roll for longer than any other die.

It's a minor quibble, but all dice discussions are ultimately about minor quibbles.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1085712Keyword: Accessory. It's an additional expense, and d12s will still roll for longer than any other die.

It's a minor quibble, but all dice discussions are ultimately about minor quibbles.

Oh, I don't use a fancy rolling box.  I have a couple of wooden bowls, with flat bottoms.  They work fine.  My favorite is made of Bamboo.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1085570The problem is it rolls too well.

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1085623Pretty much. How many times have you tossed one only to have to hunt for it on the floor and convince everyone that the face value you show them is the one it actually landed on?

Not if you arent trying to fling the dice across the room. This isnt a d20.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1085712Keyword: Accessory. It's an additional expense, and d12s will still roll for longer than any other die.

It's a minor quibble, but all dice discussions are ultimately about minor quibbles.

Are you like a habitual liar or just ignorant? Both? The d20 rolls far better than a d12 ever will.

You can make a rolling box practically free using the right type of lid off an old box. Or convert a cereal box or the like. Or even repurpose one of those Yakisoba ramen trays as they make pretty good dice trays once you are done and washed it out.

We use peanut butter cracker packages for dice boxes, for those that want them.  The ones with 8 packs of 6 crackers are perfect, about 4 x 6 inches, and 1 inch deep.  The cardboard is sturdy enough to hold up for some time, and muffles the clatter of the dice.  They stack easy.  Cost about $2 to buy one, which is no big deal if you wanted the crackers anyway.  Everyone that hosts our games keeps a few around, and rotates out the old ones occasionally.

I hate d4's because of what they did to me...

On that lonely dark night. I was thirsty. Sure I knew the risks. But dammit... that beer wasn't going to drink itself. And I had to save the poor cold pizza-slice. I left him in the cold. And as my pappy used to tell me - "We don't leave anyone behind." So I set off, with steel-jawed determination, into the darkness beyond the Couch of Pleasure, across the wastelands of the Livingroom to the holy lands of the Kitchen. And in the dark that's when the hated d4's struck. Lowly blows to my heel and arch - sharp like spears. They felled me like so much cut timber. I fell into darkness, my cries unheard... unwept. And the leader of the d4's waited as my head hit the shaggy-forested floor and struck me in the ridge above my eye. Were those tears of pain? or rage? Or just emotional loss? Does it matter?

And poor Pizzaslice... he was devoured my once trusted roomate. I'll never forgive myself. Fuck those d4's.

Quote from: Toadmaster;1085147I can't think of a game that has d4 without the others.

I can :)

Quote from: Omega;1085718Not if you arent trying to fling the dice across the room. This isnt a d20.

Quote from: Omega;1085719Are you like a habitual liar or just ignorant? Both? The d20 rolls far better than a d12 ever will.

Actually it doesn't, and I've tested this under scientific conditions and good lighting.

I suspect it has to do with the mass and the shape of the faces.

Well if you want D12 there's Blades of the Iron Throne, a Riddle of Steel retroclone that uses D12 dice pools.