Quote from: Glak on October 01, 2023, 11:58:07 PM

Quote from: Opaopajr on October 01, 2023, 04:18:43 AM
But we must remember 2e is a compilation of very different expressions of play already collated into a bundle-of-options toolbox.

I agree completely.  I started with 2e, and I was the self-taught DM.  From the very beginning I understood that the DM has to have an active curatorial role.

The kits are a big part of the unique flavor of 2e (though I can't recall using them much).  2e has a three-level class system:  group (warrior, priest, rogue, wizard, psionicist), class (fighter, ranger, etc....), and then kit.  Many kits can be used by any class in the group.  So many of the kits are transparent attempts to allow races to get around restrictions, for example a kit that allows a halfling to play a pseudo-ranger.  I think that the solution is replace the classes with kits, that can then be applied to the groups.  The book would present 30 or so kits, and DMs would select a dozen or so to be present in the campaign world.

I always lamented not being able to get a party of veterans willing to really deep dive some of those kits. As I was flipping through the Complete Halfling book I looked at some kits and wistfully daydreamed of running Tunnel Rats kits. The idea of a batch of crazed halflings going full ratting terrier at enemies of their people in the underground was like a fevered dream of WWI trench fighting and what the anime kids talk about in Goblin Slayer.

Or a bunch of Dwarven Myrmidons who'd go all Seven Samurai for a bordertown beseiged by bandits.

Or use the Complete Thieves to create an elaborate smuggling ring with several nodes along an Underground Railroad of sorts.

There's a lot of goodness in there I have yet to tap to my satisfaction. 

Given how unrealistic done used sellers are for prices and how dishonest they can be about the condition of their books I say get POD, It's cheaper, they get mailed straight to one door. Sellers still seem to think that even with Wotc POD can charge what they want. Why buy wn used 1E DMG for 50$ when with POD for 60$ one can buy an entire new 1E or even 2E core set.

I don't like the Woke of Wotc either imo you gotta be pretty dumb to want to pay more simply for disagreeing with their ideology.

Quote from: Abraxus on October 02, 2023, 12:01:55 PM
I don't like the Woke of Wotc either imo you gotta be pretty dumb to want to pay more simply for disagreeing with their ideology.

That's principle, not stupidity.  If you don't want to pay WotC, you can buy used, pirate, or abstain, and that's all you got.  For me, the red line for them was when they banned Crusade and tried to pretend that Invoke Predjudice was never printed and was never hilariously assigned card number 1488 (this was based on the formula that assigns order of course and largely predates the racist meme- it's in order of release, then white, blue, black, green, red, artifact, land, or something, within each set).  Since then they have done multiple awful things, of course, including buying the rights to Lord of the Rings so they could print black Aragorn (perhaps they had other motivations, but after seeing all the "RACISTS SO MAD THAT WE CHANGED ANOTHER WHITE GUY TO A BLACK GUY" posts they and their friends made, I no longer have any doubts personally), and of course, they had that one guy go on a podcast that was all about identity politics (that should be a red line all by itself), and then actively state that white guys ("guys like him") can't "get out" fast enough (likely meaning, of employment in D&D production, but could easily have also meant as creators of fiction, creators of games, players of games, or anything else)- exactly which anti-white claim he was making is a bit unclear, but no one meaningfully disputes that he was making a comment aimed against whites specifically.

So you can pay Hasbro for convenience if you like- I never will.

Feel free to spend all your life savings if you want. I'm not one spending extra money for the " principle".

I always get a good laugh when it's used because used as excuse to cloak  one decisions in rationalizations imo.

When reusable bags came and cheap ducks were cheaper than cheap to spend a nickel on them. They spend too much money on a pack of cigarettes but spending a nickel to save the environment nah.

It's not because I'm cheaper than cheap it's the principle of the matter.

Me: nah bro your fucking cheap here is 25 cents buy five bags on me.

I can still respect the decision and so agree with it. Claiming it's the principle of the matter does not make one decisions immune from criticism.

So are you saying I should be cheap or I shouldn't be cheap? Now I'm confused.

AD&D 2e PHBs are like $30 on eBay right now. I'm sure you can find it for less in used goods stores if you keep an eye out. That's all you really need to start.

No need to make this more complicated than it is.

Go forth! Play!