TheRPGSite

Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: J Arcane on April 08, 2010, 12:00:19 PM

Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: J Arcane on April 08, 2010, 12:00:19 PM
How the hell does a site that's almost totally committed to slobbing Wizards' knob wind up running a general RPG award?  

How can they be giving out awards to games most of their userbase wouldn't even touch or talk about were it not for the award process itself?  How the hell can they even presume to judge on other gamers when all they'll play in real life is ?

Am I the only one who always thought the whole thing didn't make a lick of fucking sense, even before they proved themselves to be utterly corrupt and run by jackasses?
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Settembrini on April 08, 2010, 12:42:59 PM
Ennies bashing, Ron bashing, invading disenfranchised Forgers, this feels like 2006!
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: PaladinCA on April 08, 2010, 12:49:49 PM
I can't figure out why they need a four-hour awards event to hand out the awards. Four hours?!
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Warthur on April 08, 2010, 12:58:32 PM
I can't believe they were ever allowed to upstage the ORIGINS award, which was perfectly adequate for the purpose.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Melan on April 08, 2010, 01:09:52 PM
They started out as a small hobbyist-based award that grew into the usual unwieldy, bureaucratic clusterfuck. I think they got involved in judging non-D&D products when they gained official recognition from Gen Con, and that was one of GC's conditions. I may be wrong, so feel free to correct me if I remember incorrectly.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Benoist on April 08, 2010, 01:09:53 PM
Quote from: J Arcane;372317How the hell does a site that's almost totally committed to slobbing Wizards' knob wind up running a general RPG award?
Mostly because Eric Noah's site was the eye of the storm when 3rd edition rolled out. This made it the eye of the OGL storm. Everything d20 was discussed on ENWorld, and ENWorld was the place to be on when one wanted to talk about everything d20.  

Quote from: J Arcane;372317How can they be giving out awards to games most of their userbase wouldn't even touch or talk about were it not for the award process itself?  How the hell can they even presume to judge on other gamers when all they'll play in real life is ?
That's a very fair question indeed. Now, one needs to say that some other games are discussed there as well, from time to time, but nowhere near the amount of traffic D&D represents.

Really, the bottom-line here is that the ENnies lost their raison d'être as soon as the OGL stopped being supported by a wide variety of publishers, and as soon as the site became a for-profit venture, first and foremost (http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/274210-important-please-read-changes-coming.html).

Quote from: J Arcane;372317Am I the only one who always thought the whole thing didn't make a lick of fucking sense, even before they proved themselves to be utterly corrupt and run by jackasses?
The ENnies are no longer relevant. They were, at some point, but not anymore.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Melan on April 08, 2010, 01:16:35 PM
Quote from: Benoist;372330Really, the bottom-line here is that the ENnies lost their raison d'être as soon as the OGL stopped being supported by a wide variety of publishers, and as soon as the site became a for-profit venture, first and foremost (http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/274210-important-please-read-changes-coming.html).
I thought this was just run-of-the-mill gamer anti-corporatism, but holy fuck:

Quote from: MorrusTo this end, I'm rejigging the community supporter subscriptions a little. I haven't fully settled on the list (although nobody will lose anything from their subscription), but we're looking at an additional higher tier subscription for about $6, and moving forum signatures into the subscription framework. That means that signatures will be only be available to people who have a subscription. Why sigs, and why now? Well, as I mentioned the boards are now self-sustaining, and I now need to facilitate growth - not in terms of size, but in quality. To do that, I want to encourage people to become subscribers without removing access to all the threads and ideas here, ensuring that these thing - the really important things - remain available to all. Limiting sigs to subscribers - a feature that I tend to find distracting - seemed to be the right choice.

I don't mind paying money for forums (my SA platinum account was worth the investment even with 0 posts), but still.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Benoist on April 08, 2010, 01:28:45 PM
Watching Liz Bauman at D&D Experience in 2008 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTXPjwipAAk) in this context is interesting (as to the way ENWorld related to the 4e roll-out at the time, and what people hoped would come out of it... and didn't happen at all, in the end).
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Settembrini on April 08, 2010, 01:37:45 PM
Utterly OT: Posting on messageboards makes you sometimes forget that people from different cultures have different degrees of the intensity of facial expression and gestures. Jon Stewart and Colbert don´t overact too much, it seems.

Not that north German stone-faces or British understatement are any better. Just so different!

OT: I do wonder how people can gobble up such platitudes and excogitate them so faithfully in sheer seriousness.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Melan on April 08, 2010, 01:53:25 PM
ENWorld also seems to have become a haven for some really weird kind of threads (http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/274618-did-gygax-owe-bit-thanks-wizards-coast.html).
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Settembrini on April 08, 2010, 02:02:42 PM
When he says 'WotC', he´s really saying: "Gary owes thanks to ME." Weird indeed. More itnersting, though: what´s thsi new "comments" thingamajig? Has google Wave had repercussions on forae and we didn´t notice?
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Aos on April 08, 2010, 02:05:02 PM
Yeah, that's fucked up.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Benoist on April 08, 2010, 02:32:59 PM
Quote from: Melan;372343ENWorld also seems to have become a haven for some really weird kind of threads (http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/274618-did-gygax-owe-bit-thanks-wizards-coast.html).
Oh gawd. This thread made me laugh. Erik Mona's answer (http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/274618-did-gygax-owe-bit-thanks-wizards-coast-3.html#post5144021), too.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: T. Foster on April 08, 2010, 02:41:40 PM
If TheDungeonDelver sees that ENWorld thread I'm pretty sure his head will explode in rage :p
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Aos on April 08, 2010, 02:43:12 PM
Quote from: T. Foster;372351If TheDungeonDelver sees that ENWorld thread I'm pretty sure his head will explode in rage :p

We need to get him to read it whilst on a webcam. :D
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Melan on April 08, 2010, 02:46:09 PM
Quote from: T. Foster;372351If TheDungeonDelver sees that ENWorld thread I'm pretty sure his head will explode in rage :p

I am not registered on his forums. Anyone? ;)

And yeah, get him a webcam.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Drohem on April 08, 2010, 02:47:49 PM
WTF?!  EGG owes WotC gratitude?  Yeah, pretty lame indeed.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Benoist on April 08, 2010, 02:52:19 PM
Quote from: T. Foster;372351If TheDungeonDelver sees that ENWorld thread I'm pretty sure his head will explode in rage :p
Hey! Aren't you supposed to be HARD-fucking-CORE yourself? Where's the Khmer Rouge of Old-Schoolers when we need him? :D
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: brettmb on April 08, 2010, 04:37:01 PM
Quote from: Drohem;372356WTF?!  EGG owes WotC gratitude?  Yeah, pretty lame indeed.
Really. If anything, he owes his gratitude to Holmes, Moldvay, and Mentzer who all contributed in turning D&D into a household name.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: The Butcher on April 08, 2010, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: brettmb;372376Really. If anything, he owes his gratitude to Holmes, Moldvay, and Mentzer who all contributed in turning D&D into a household name.

This.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Mistwell on April 08, 2010, 05:21:19 PM
TheRPGSite bashing EnWorld I have no problem with at all.

The dolts who got their panties in a wad when CircvsMaximvs bashed TheRPGSite, now those hypocrites I have a problem with.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: RPGPundit on April 08, 2010, 05:55:01 PM
I'm sure their intentions were good when they first started, but it quickly devolved into a mire of special interests, corruption, and irrelevancy.

RPGPundit
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: StormBringer on April 08, 2010, 05:57:20 PM
Quote from: Benoist;372348Oh gawd. This thread made me laugh. Erik Mona's answer (http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/274618-did-gygax-owe-bit-thanks-wizards-coast-3.html#post5144021), too.
You are a better man than I.  That white on black still burns my fucking eyes out.  Seriously, Morrus, are you a complete fucking moron, or are you some weird kind of colour-blind that makes that scheme tolerable?
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: J Arcane on April 08, 2010, 06:54:19 PM
Quote from: Melan;372343ENWorld also seems to have become a haven for some really weird kind of threads (http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/274618-did-gygax-owe-bit-thanks-wizards-coast.html).

Jeezus. That is the king hell fucking master of fanboy bullshit.  Motherfuck.  

I don't venerate the man the way so many others, especially the OSR, tend to, but that's just blatant and disrespectful bullshit.  

What's next, demands that Shakespeare rise from the dead and apologize to Baz Luhrmann?
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: mhensley on April 08, 2010, 08:19:06 PM
Quote from: StormBringer;372389You are a better man than I.  That white on black still burns my fucking eyes out.  Seriously, Morrus, are you a complete fucking moron, or are you some weird kind of colour-blind that makes that scheme tolerable?

lol, as much money as they throw at that site and it's still butt ugly with serious usability issues.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Benoist on April 08, 2010, 08:20:46 PM
They could do with something (much) easier on the eyes, yet not like the brownish toilet wallpaper of Circvsmaximvs either, I'll give you that. :)
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: J Arcane on April 08, 2010, 08:29:52 PM
Quote from: mhensley;372408lol, as much money as they throw at that site and it's still butt ugly with serious usability issues.

And it's only gotten worse since the last time I was there.  The actual posts were a mere sliver in the center of the page, almost overwhelmed by all the pointless widgets and ads littering the page as far as the eye could see.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Sigmund on April 08, 2010, 08:35:01 PM
Quote from: Mistwell;372381TheRPGSite bashing EnWorld I have no problem with at all.

The dolts who got their panties in a wad when CircvsMaximvs bashed TheRPGSite, now those hypocrites I have a problem with.

Yeah really, I mean who the fuck cares what the circus freaks bash?
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Settembrini on April 08, 2010, 08:55:21 PM
They are really sad people. They believe stuff that WotC says.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: thedungeondelver on April 08, 2010, 09:00:25 PM
Quote from: mhensley;372408lol, as much money as they throw at that site and it's still butt ugly with serious usability issues.

And apparently they run it on an 8088 (http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?12004-the-return-of-the-8088-web-server), to judge by the load speed*.


...

*=Firefox plus massive adblock and noscript keeps the noise to a minimum, however.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Joethelawyer on April 08, 2010, 09:40:10 PM
Quote from: thedungeondelver;372424And apparently they run it on an 8088 (http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?12004-the-return-of-the-8088-web-server), to judge by the load speed*.


...

*=Firefox plus massive adblock and noscript keeps the noise to a minimum, however.

That's the only way to visit there...screening out the crap with those 2 things.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Mistwell on April 08, 2010, 10:44:43 PM
Quote from: Joethelawyer;372435That's the only way to visit there...screening out the crap with those 2 things.

A subscription also gets rid of all of that.

As for load times, in all honesty, if you are still getting slow load times there, it's you and not them.  EW isn't slow anymore.  It hasn't been for quite some time.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Joethelawyer on April 08, 2010, 10:50:17 PM
Quote from: Mistwell;372445A subscription also gets rid of all of that.

As for load times, in all honesty, if you are still getting slow load times there, it's you and not them.  EW isn't slow anymore.  It hasn't been for quite some time.

Not saying its slow anymore, just saying its the only way to visit.  I hate ads.

Being free, those 2 apps are cheaper than a subscription
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Aos on April 08, 2010, 10:55:14 PM
Any time anyone suggests the ENworld is slow Mistwell gets cranked up.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: brettmb on April 08, 2010, 11:01:04 PM
Quote from: Aos;372452Any time anyone suggests the ENworld is slow Mistwell gets cranked up.
To be fair, it's not always slow, but when it is, it's dreadfully slow. As mentioned, that color scheme really hurts the eyes. Whenever I spend any time reading a thread, it takes about a minute for my eyes to adjust to other sites and the real world. But enough bashing ;)
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Mistwell on April 08, 2010, 11:10:51 PM
If you don't like the colors, change them.  

Use your User Control Panel (account -> edit options -> misc)

For example, a lot of people like the white background with blue lettering skin.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: brettmb on April 08, 2010, 11:12:37 PM
Quote from: Mistwell;372456If you don't like the colors, change them.  

Use your User Control Panel.
I did, but they kept getting reset, so I gave up.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: dar on April 08, 2010, 11:28:41 PM
It's good to hear that the speed of ENWorld is generally better for folks.

And really, the ENNies are kind of their own thing from ENWorld anymore.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: StormBringer on April 09, 2010, 02:00:34 AM
Quote from: mhensley;372408lol, as much money as they throw at that site and it's still butt ugly with serious usability issues.

Quote from: Benoist;372410They could do with something (much) easier on the eyes, yet not like the brownish toilet wallpaper of Circvsmaximvs either, I'll give you that. :)

Quote from: J Arcane;372414And it's only gotten worse since the last time I was there.  The actual posts were a mere sliver in the center of the page, almost overwhelmed by all the pointless widgets and ads littering the page as far as the eye could see.
It's like early AOL home pages with blink tags and Jesus dancing to that hamster MIDI all over again, with scrolling marquis in red text on a blue background.  I've seen anime that was less seizure inducing than ENWorld.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Fifth Element on April 09, 2010, 08:43:10 AM
Quote from: Mistwell;372445As for load times, in all honesty, if you are still getting slow load times there, it's you and not them.  EW isn't slow anymore.  It hasn't been for quite some time.
I have to agree. It used to be dreadfully slow, I mean just ridiculously slow. But they upgraded their servers (IIRC) and I haven't had any problems with it for some time.

Those who still consider it slow: is it because you haven't visited recently and are just remembering how slow it used to be? If not, then Mistwell's right about it being you, not them.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: thedungeondelver on April 09, 2010, 09:22:21 AM
Quote from: StormBringer;372470It's like early AOL home pages with blink tags and Jesus dancing to that hamster MIDI all over again, with scrolling marquis in red text on a blue background.  I've seen anime that was less seizure inducing than ENWorld.

Right-click, adblock image, right click, adblock iframe, lather, rinse, repeat.  Use wildcards to suppress entire swaths of ads.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Thanlis on April 09, 2010, 10:14:26 AM
Quote from: Fifth Element;372496I have to agree. It used to be dreadfully slow, I mean just ridiculously slow. But they upgraded their servers (IIRC) and I haven't had any problems with it for some time.

Those who still consider it slow: is it because you haven't visited recently and are just remembering how slow it used to be? If not, then Mistwell's right about it being you, not them.

It's a mile better than it was, but it does occasionally drag a tad. Not unacceptable any more, though.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: StormBringer on April 09, 2010, 10:40:46 AM
Quote from: thedungeondelver;372501Right-click, adblock image, right click, adblock iframe, lather, rinse, repeat.  Use wildcards to suppress entire swaths of ads.
Ad-block is a Godsend.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Kinetic on April 09, 2010, 12:00:06 PM
Quote from: dar;372461And really, the ENNies are kind of their own thing from ENWorld anymore.

This is true.  I'm a judge for the ENnies this year and my post count on ENWorld is like... two?  Maybe three, I'd have to log in to check.  I don't even play D&D.

As for relevance, it's only as relevant as you want it to be.  I like that it's a sort of "people's choice" award in this hobby.  Can't really talk to any corruption/personal interest stuff, as I haven't experienced any of it, but I know the blowout with Zach really set people on edge and that's a huge black mark against the ENnies in a lot of people's minds.  I can see where people don't want anything to do with it or think the ENnies are irrelevant after that.  But things change.  That's all I can really think of to say.

I honestly didn't realize there was so much drama/hate toward the ENnies prior to being a judge this year.  I never really paid attention to the discussions about it, just voted and looked for the results after GenCon.  It has been eye-opening.
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Garnfellow on April 09, 2010, 03:36:06 PM
[Never mind]
Title: How the hell did the Ennies even happen?
Post by: Kellri on April 09, 2010, 08:26:02 PM
Just got off the Ouija-phone with Gary... for a guy with his own mansion in the clouds, he's sure got some anger issues. No sooner had I finished slowly intoning the question (Why didn't you thank WOTC, oh great disembodied DM?) than the planchette jumped up and started giving me the ground and pound before burying itself like a knife into the 'NO' spot. Just to be a bastard, I think I'll ask him about demi-human level limits next.