How many dragons does it take to kill a 5e character? Three and a cliff to fall off of, with a spike pit at the bottom, follow that up with throwing oil upon the character and lighting them on fire, when they get out of the pit, 100 human soldiers fires arrows into them.
Players - "So far I failed two save vs. death rolls, but the cleric has helped me, my character is stable now".
DM throws his dice at the players head.
5e Dungeons & Dragons - Saving Throw Vs. Fun
https://youtu.be/K8t-EQzTw7M
If your 5e DM isn't killing characters, he isn't doing it right.
;) DM Curt.
If he isn't killing your 5e character with - "Three dragons and a cliff to fall off of, with a spike pit at the bottom, follow that up with throwing oil upon the character and lighting them on fire, when they get out of the pit, 100 human soldiers fires arrows into them", they are not doing it right.
Wait in 5e, if the DM is not killing the 5e character they are doing it right(as far as 5e is concerned)?
Y'all need some o' Tucker's Kobolds.
https://media.wizards.com/2014/downloads/dnd/TuckersKobolds.pdf
Tucker's Kobolds always have made me laugh.
I use to make goblins and kobolds only aim for the privates. They would try to remove breasts and characters little weewee lol. It scared the crap out of a lot players.
5e has the Difficulty Slider set at Easy by default, but easy enough to shift if you're not playing with the target audience: new players.
Quote from: DM_Curt on October 29, 2021, 08:04:23 PM
5e has the Difficulty Slider set at Easy by default, but easy enough to shift if you're not playing with the target audience: new players.
Another thing tainted by trying to appeal to a "Wider" audience.
IDK what the big deal is. 3.5 was easy enough for me to learn and I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.
I personally like the -10 rule, where between 0 and -9 Hit Points, you're dying. Adds some drama to it, and makes it more difficult to get one shot by a House Cat. I think making that part of the main rules was an improvement over earlier editions.
I 100% agree about the minus 10 gimmick, I am an ad&d 2ed ole hat, so I do prefer that option over most.
I get where Curt is coming from, but as I said to Curt in the comment section of the video, I see most abusing this, I have seen one that came closer to making it a challenge, but even then it was too easy.
It's really not hard at all to die once you're knocked unconscious.
"If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death saving throw failure. If the damage is from a critical hit, you suffer two failures instead."
"Unconscious Condition: Any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature."
In other words, if a dragon has three attacks or more (like an adult dragon), and it knocks you out with the first and then closes with your unconscious body to complete the remaining attacks, the other two attacks will kill you. No save, and their attacks are all at advantage once you're unconscious as well.
Thank you Mistwell. 8)
We've had this discussion before where I cited chapter & verse of Basic 5e and how quickly you can kill PCs. Any character with two 'Light' property weapons (thus granting the universal bonus action for Two-Weapon Attack) can kill off a Death Saving PC at 5' range in one turn: both club (or sickle/dagger/handaxe/etc.) attack on turn, that's two crit attacks, that's 4 failed death saves, downed PC is dead. No Lay on Hands for 1, no Healing Word, nada. Gotta use rezzing magic, not healing magic.
5e is deadly. Read the rules and play it RAW for a bit before adding extra optional content. Are there issues especially with added content and loose interpretations? Yes, but this hyperbolic complaint example is an obvious stretch. :P
2 Light Weapons? Also consider the Multi-attack feature of many monsters.
For example, the Good Ol' "Claw/Claw/Bite".
I see a lot of dead PCs in my current 5e game, even with 8-player groups. One player lost 3 PCs in 3 consecutive sessions playing with me recently, though admittedly those were 1 5e and 2 4e games.
5e Young dragons are very deadly compared to PCs a few levels below the dragon CR due to their powerful breath weapons. If you want to kill PCs without going overboard on the CR I'd suggest three young dragons breathing consecutively. If you drop PCs with the second breath, the third dragon can use melee attacks to dead-dead kill one; or all three breaths on a clustered PC group may drop the entire party.
Young White Dragons https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/young-white-dragon are particularly good for this - only Challenge 6, breath does 45 damage, has a good AoE and is a CON save so Evasion does not work. Overlapping white dragon breaths should drop all the squishy PCs including the healers. Then the dragons move in to finish the Barbarian still standing. 8)
Quote from: S'mon on October 30, 2021, 03:07:37 AM
I see a lot of dead PCs in my current 5e game, even with 8-player groups. One player lost 3 PCs in 3 consecutive sessions playing with me recently, though admittedly those were 1 5e and 2 4e games.
5e Young dragons are very deadly compared to PCs a few levels below the dragon CR due to their powerful breath weapons. If you want to kill PCs without going overboard on the CR I'd suggest three young dragons breathing consecutively. If you drop PCs with the second breath, the third dragon can use melee attacks to dead-dead kill one; or all three breaths on a clustered PC group may drop the entire party.
Young White Dragons https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/young-white-dragon are particularly good for this - only Challenge 6, breath does 45 damage, has a good AoE and is a CON save so Evasion does not work. Overlapping white dragon breaths should drop all the squishy PCs including the healers. Then the dragons move in to finish the Barbarian still standing. 8)
Greetings!
*Laughing* NICE! I love it!
All the crying about 5E and players not being killable...heh. I don't think they are reading thoroughly enough, and applying the rules like a good, ruthless DM should.
The difficulty slider knob I think is a good example mentioned. The game is set up initially in many of the rules to make it a soft, cushy playpen for new gamers and little kids.
Dig though. And always remember that YOU are the DM, and change stuff around, and make a set of notes to remind yourself o the relevant rules, as well as particular interpretations you have made to the game, and keep that note book handy. Apply it with a swift hand when playing with adults and experienced gamers, and 5E can very well be played with a rough, old school edge. ;D
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
You need dragons? I had a swarm of zombies, backed by some variant ghouls, actually force my players to pull back from the haunted village they were investigating. They killed a lot of them, but y'know, quantity has a quality all its own and they got VERY lucky on a couple clutch rolls.
No one died but they definitely got their confidence rattled a bit.
Quote from: SHARK on October 30, 2021, 08:09:10 AM
All the crying about 5E and players not being killable...heh. I don't think they are reading thoroughly enough, and applying the rules like a good, ruthless DM should.
Absolutely. Just need a DM with balls (or lady balls) big enough to do it. As Mistwell pointed out, the mechanics are there.
Eight days ago a couple of vampire spawns took out my character as well as my daughter's. Killed them dead without remorse. The DM, my wife, said it wouldn't make any sense for them not to given nobody else in the fight was a threat at the time.
But as much as I would like to brag on her for having the lady balls to do it, I have to brag on myself for marrying so well. I was super proud of myself as I was rolling up my new character. Daughter took it like a champ too.
One thing PF2 (yea I know) got right was fixing the wack-a-mole syndrome that you have in 5e.
Any time you lose the dying condition, you become wounded 1 and if you already had the wounded condition, your wounded condition increases by 1. If you gain the dying condition while wounded it increases your dying condition by your wounded value. The wounded condition ends if you are restored to full HP AND rest for 10 minutes OR if someone successfully treats you with Treat Wounds (which takes 10 minutes).
My son plays 5e and suggested this change (adding a wound system) and it has added teeth to 5e's dying system and no longer do the healers wait to heal someone when they downed.
I remember the first time my players ran across the BBEG right hand man that had spells that gave wounds. They didn't want anything to do with that guy ;)
5e's version of Tomb of Annihilation, along with the "No rezzes, no revives, no refunds", very clearly suggests bumping up the death save DCs, either straight to 15, or in other ways I don't remember clearly. I think it was start at 10 and bump it up by 1 every time you had to roll?
Quote from: DM_Curt on October 30, 2021, 12:56:41 PM
5e's version of Tomb of Annihilation, along with the "No rezzes, no revives, no refunds", very clearly suggests bumping up the death save DCs, either straight to 15, or in other ways I don't remember clearly. I think it was start at 10 and bump it up by 1 every time you had to roll?
Yeah, that was a really cool way that module handled death.
Speaking of PF2 and wounds, one of the pleasureable things of 5e D&D is they leave the water there for GM horses but don't force GMs to drink. The Exhaustion table is one of those let it lie and let others figure it out. It is a brutal table that, if tacked on to every single downing to 0HP, quickly cuts whack-a-mole antics dead.
There is also Instant Death core rule. If single source of damage is equal to or greater than Current HP + HP Maximum the character dies. So a squishy with low CON is living dangerously for a very long time. A single high falling drop or dragon attack can wipe out many low levels outright if it connects, no Death Throws mini-game.
Do I prefer 5e to my beloved TSR D&D? No. But it is not banished from my sight like 3e or 4e. ;)
I don't know. I never made it without biting.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-w8Lx8RDwnUI/U-odxz5_SOI/AAAAAAAAtkw/YOaPS2rlNTE/s1600/Tootsie-pop-mr-turtle.jpg)
All fair points.
I see a lot tables abusing the death system. I get that a minority may have had a different experience, but from what I have seen, the majority have not caught on.
5e is definitely "easy mode" for the players. Not so much for the DM who has to challenge these superheroic characters.
Back in days of AD&D, everybody had to wrap their heads arou d the rules, which were usually hard to interpret, and there were a lot of them. Now only the DM has to achieve system mastery. And if you don't know the rules, or only read the cursory instructions, or don't take the time to sit down and design a challenge, the players walk all over your game. It doesn't help that the published adventures are poorly written. But it is hard to design a game for characters if those characters could be ANYTHING. Any race or class.
But if you sit down and read the rules, read how combat works, how dying works, how a particular spell works, what consitions do, you can put your foot down and say "No!" when the Cleric casts Healing Word on a guy who fell 100' down a cliff, into a spiked pit with 3 dragons hovering over him. Because you know that that spell only has a range of 30 feet.
Quote from: Svenhelgrim on October 30, 2021, 11:22:03 PM
Back in days of AD&D, everybody had to wrap their heads arou d the rules, which were usually hard to interpret, and there were a lot of them. Now only the DM has to achieve system mastery.
I don't think anything has changed there. That is, I disagree that AD&D players need "system mastery" more than 5e players. Case in point is my most recent campaign, where ten of the 11 players were new to RPGs. I ran 1e AD&D, and none of them even owned the rulebooks (although a few of them did download OSRIC PDFs). I was the only one at the table with a handle on the rules, but it didn't matter. They told me what they wanted to do, I ran the game, and it all worked out great. Everyone was having a blast until COVID put a stop to that campaign.
Quote from: Svenhelgrim on October 30, 2021, 11:22:03 PM
But if you sit down and read the rules, read how combat works, how dying works, how a particular spell works, what consitions do, you can put your foot down and say "No!" when the Cleric casts Healing Word on a guy who fell 100' down a cliff, into a spiked pit with 3 dragons hovering over him. Because you know that that spell only has a range of 30 feet.
"When damage reduces you to 0 hit points and there is damage remaining, you die if the remaining damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum."
5e certainly does have the rules for fst-killing someone down because of 0 hp. However, the game then strongly pushes the DM not to do it. In effect, doing so is suggested to be playing the game wrong. I have to wonder how any of the monsters got used to dropping people to 0 hp then "moving on to another combatant" only to see the downed enemy get back up time and again thanks to low-level healing magic.
Quote from: HappyDaze on October 31, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
5e certainly does have the rules for fst-killing someone down because of 0 hp. However, the game then strongly pushes the DM not to do it. In effect, doing so is suggested to be playing the game wrong. I have to wonder how any of the monsters got used to dropping people to 0 hp then "moving on to another combatant" only to see the downed enemy get back up time and again thanks to low-level healing magic.
In my games, enemy healers usually have Healing Word, and or Healing Spirit memorized. "What's good for the goose..." etc.
Quote from: Svenhelgrim on October 31, 2021, 02:41:24 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on October 31, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
5e certainly does have the rules for fst-killing someone down because of 0 hp. However, the game then strongly pushes the DM not to do it. In effect, doing so is suggested to be playing the game wrong. I have to wonder how any of the monsters got used to dropping people to 0 hp then "moving on to another combatant" only to see the downed enemy get back up time and again thanks to low-level healing magic.
In my games, enemy healers usually have Healing Word, and or Healing Spirit memorized. "What's good for the goose..." etc.
Yeah, I've done that on occasion too. It helps to balance the sides somewhat, but I still don't believe it made for a good gaming experience (which is why I no longer play 5e).
For the most part, I find the monsters and combat effects in 5E to be nerfed compared to older editions, but one spot where they can definitely get you is the Zombie rebounding to 1 HP based on a save and/or whether or not they suffered any radiant damage that round. Still, there is far too much stuff in 5E, in my opinion, that fixes on a long rest or you can save every round to end the condition.
Still, you can't beat 2E monsters for lethality. Medusa or Basilisk? Save or die, essentially.
Ghost? Fail a save, age 4 decades on the spot, potentially, and pass a system shock roll or ragdoll.
Wight / Wraith / Vampire: LEVEL DRAIN! None of this losing HP that you regain after a long rest. 2E Strahd will F you UP!
An opponent casts Charm Person on you and you fail to save? Guess what, they own you for DAYS, maybe even WEEKS!
In a 2E game, until you are truly powerful yourself, those are encounters you run from and/or avoid, because even if you win, you may come away so depleted that the rest of the adventures just became un-survivable.
There is a lot of stuff to love about 5E, but the HP bloat all-around, overpowered bonuses for ability scores, and nerfed effects make for boring, over-extended, non-consequential combats, I think. I'm currently playing in both 2E and 5E campaigns, and the former is definitely more white knuckle, challenging, and fun.
My experience with 5e is that you need to have massive amounts of spike damage or else A LOT of deadly encounters in a single day with only short rests in order to really challenge a well constructed party in Tier 2 (I haven't played/run past level 10-11 yet).
Quote from: HappyDaze on October 31, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
5e certainly does have the rules for fst-killing someone down because of 0 hp. However, the game then strongly pushes the DM not to do it. In effect, doing so is suggested to be playing the game wrong. I have to wonder how any of the monsters got used to dropping people to 0 hp then "moving on to another combatant" only to see the downed enemy get back up time and again thanks to low-level healing magic.
Err in what way does "the game" strongly push a DM not to do that?
If I ran 5E, and depending on the level of the party, 1-2 dragons.
Its because 5es combat system is SHIIIT. You need to Quadruple tap to kill somebody. And even 1 HP of healing resets it.
But because its nostalgic, everybody gives its design a pass.
My only adjustment would be to have death saves reset after a long rest.
I have seen countless 5e characters die. Some of you are in the twilight zone.
Greetings!
Yeah, I modify my campaign. I don't use all the stupid death saves. Fuck all that. You get to zero or less hit points, you are unconscious, and or bleeding the fuck out, at a rate of 1 hit pint per turn. At negative 10, you are dead.
I also use level draining. Vampires, Wraiths, and Spectres all drain levels with their melee attacks, bitch. ;D
I also cut the 5E monster Hit Points by 50%, and have player characters limited as well. Wizards have D4's for Hit Dice, and Rogues have D6's. Only Warrior Classes get above +2 Con bonuses. Every other class has +2 Con bonuses, maximum.
I also use expanded Critical Ranges for different weapons, as well as exploding Criticals. Every round, the Critical threat range increases by 1, as you get worn down in hand-to-hand combat. With each passing round of combat, the chances increase that you will be a step too slow, miss a block, and get ripped in a crushing attack. Every round of combat, your death comes closer. A common peasant, or a brigand, or an Orc warrior, can get a critical against you, and you are fucking done. That can happen, whether you are level 1 or level 10.
Death and blood and pain need to be confronting the player characters at every turn. They need to experience FEAR when a man draws steel. Or when that peasant girl has a bow drawn on them...ready to go. If she's good, you will be lucky to get three steps before you are lying on the fucking ground, dead.
I like having that sense of fear and realism and verisimilitude. Player characters should be heroes, not fucking super heroes.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I'd say 5e design clearly points to fantasy superhero game.
QuoteEvery round, the Critical threat range increases by 1, as you get worn down in hand-to-hand combat. With each passing round of combat, the chances increase that you will be a step too slow, miss a block, and get ripped in a crushing attack. Every round of combat, your death comes closer. A common peasant, or a brigand, or an Orc warrior, can get a critical against you, and you are fucking done.
Hmmm... dunno about it. I mean battle wears both sides - which means they become less efficient attackers. So it's sort of balanced under normal critial rules.
In real life if melee fight is too long it would rather become cripple fight, than increased critical range.
Quote from: FingerRod on November 01, 2021, 03:25:46 PM
I have seen countless 5e characters die. Some of you are in the twilight zone.
Yeah, some GMs may play softball or ignore things to make it a bit more swashbuckling or cinematic, but standard issue 5e PCs can drop pretty fast. If anything, the uncertainty of death saves is scarier than a mere countdown to -10.
How many dragons does it take to kill a 5e character? It depends. A Red Wyrmling can one-shot 1st level PCs and some of the squishier 2nd and 3rd level PCs with bad breath alone.
However, I've never liked how most D&D only has four stages of combat effectiveness: Up & Running, Taking a Nap, Mortal Peril, and Corpse. There needs to be one or two things between Up & Running and Taking a Nap.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on October 30, 2021, 10:16:53 AM
You need dragons? I had a swarm of zombies, backed by some variant ghouls, actually force my players to pull back from the haunted village they were investigating. They killed a lot of them, but y'know, quantity has a quality all its own and they got VERY lucky on a couple clutch rolls.
No one died but they definitely got their confidence rattled a bit.
Zombies, oh big deal. It's not hard to defeat them.
After all, they were already dead on their feet.
There are so many things you can do with zombies, and their skinnier cousins: skeletons.
With zombies, you can scoop out their innards and fill them with clay jars of alchemist's fire, or acid, or some noxious gas producing liquid, and wait for that fighter with the greatsword to trigger his own doom.
Infest a zombie with Rot Grubs and you have a nice one-two punch.
Dress up a zombie in rusty Splint Mail (the armor that everyone bypasses) and improve its armor class. Tell those armored zombies to lie down in 18 inches of muddy water and you have a nice ambush. If you don't want to give the players a suit of splint mail as a prize, just bolt some metal plates onto the zombie. Fashion some old scythe blades onto their arms while you're at it. Might as well smear some poison on them too.
Buff your zombies with barkskin, stoneskin, fire shield, haste, and lett them go to town.
Zombies are the ultimate power source. Make them walk on a treadmill to power a mad wizard's engine of destruction, make them reload and fire seige engines ceaselessly. Need a crew for a submarine that won't deplete the air? That's right...ZOMBIES.
LOL at Griswald. Well played.
But yeah. Undead in general are serious opponents, but skeletons and zombies lend themselves well to unexpected ambushes (I had one where the skeletons were concealed inside terracotta statues and smashed their way out to attack the party).
Anyone can outsmart skeletons, the boneheads...
Quote from: SHARK on November 01, 2021, 04:18:31 PM
Greetings!
Yeah, I modify my campaign. I don't use all the stupid death saves. Fuck all that. You get to zero or less hit points, you are unconscious, and or bleeding the fuck out, at a rate of 1 hit pint per turn. At negative 10, you are dead.
I also use level draining. Vampires, Wraiths, and Spectres all drain levels with their melee attacks, bitch. ;D
I also cut the 5E monster Hit Points by 50%, and have player characters limited as well. Wizards have D4's for Hit Dice, and Rogues have D6's. Only Warrior Classes get above +2 Con bonuses. Every other class has +2 Con bonuses, maximum.
I also use expanded Critical Ranges for different weapons, as well as exploding Criticals. Every round, the Critical threat range increases by 1, as you get worn down in hand-to-hand combat. With each passing round of combat, the chances increase that you will be a step too slow, miss a block, and get ripped in a crushing attack. Every round of combat, your death comes closer. A common peasant, or a brigand, or an Orc warrior, can get a critical against you, and you are fucking done. That can happen, whether you are level 1 or level 10.
Death and blood and pain need to be confronting the player characters at every turn. They need to experience FEAR when a man draws steel. Or when that peasant girl has a bow drawn on them...ready to go. If she's good, you will be lucky to get three steps before you are lying on the fucking ground, dead.
I like having that sense of fear and realism and verisimilitude. Player characters should be heroes, not fucking super heroes.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
You're basically hybridizing 2E and 5E, which is actually something I've thought about doing. It makes it possible to keep the best practices of both systems, and yes, frankly introducing the players to the concept of thinking twice before charging in on a wraith or vampire and such. I'd also recommend bringing back 1 save against a medusa or baskilisk or you are turned to stone, period fucking dot. Ghosts can age you decades on a failed save. Stuff like that. Give monsters their teeth back, so to speak.
Quote from: jmarso on November 01, 2021, 11:47:19 PM
Quote from: SHARK on November 01, 2021, 04:18:31 PM
Greetings!
Yeah, I modify my campaign. I don't use all the stupid death saves. Fuck all that. You get to zero or less hit points, you are unconscious, and or bleeding the fuck out, at a rate of 1 hit pint per turn. At negative 10, you are dead.
I also use level draining. Vampires, Wraiths, and Spectres all drain levels with their melee attacks, bitch. ;D
I also cut the 5E monster Hit Points by 50%, and have player characters limited as well. Wizards have D4's for Hit Dice, and Rogues have D6's. Only Warrior Classes get above +2 Con bonuses. Every other class has +2 Con bonuses, maximum.
I also use expanded Critical Ranges for different weapons, as well as exploding Criticals. Every round, the Critical threat range increases by 1, as you get worn down in hand-to-hand combat. With each passing round of combat, the chances increase that you will be a step too slow, miss a block, and get ripped in a crushing attack. Every round of combat, your death comes closer. A common peasant, or a brigand, or an Orc warrior, can get a critical against you, and you are fucking done. That can happen, whether you are level 1 or level 10.
Death and blood and pain need to be confronting the player characters at every turn. They need to experience FEAR when a man draws steel. Or when that peasant girl has a bow drawn on them...ready to go. If she's good, you will be lucky to get three steps before you are lying on the fucking ground, dead.
I like having that sense of fear and realism and verisimilitude. Player characters should be heroes, not fucking super heroes.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
You're basically hybridizing 2E and 5E, which is actually something I've thought about doing. It makes it possible to keep the best practices of both systems, and yes, frankly introducing the players to the concept of thinking twice before charging in on a wraith or vampire and such. I'd also recommend bringing back 1 save against a medusa or baskilisk or you are turned to stone, period fucking dot. Ghosts can age you decades on a failed save. Stuff like that. Give monsters their teeth back, so to speak.
Greetings!
Yeah, give monsters their teeth back! I grew up playing Holmes basic (The Blue book with the Dragon on the front cover) and AD&D, and I remember lots of monsters being very dangerous. Not just at 1st or 3rd or 4th level, either, but at 8th, 10rh, 12th, and 16th level. Undead, Dragons, Demons, lamias, chimeras, manticores, all kinds of things, but even brigands and orcs and ogres could be dangerous. I also remember having LOTS of wilderness adventures, fighting in forests and mountain slopes, marshes, and blasting hot jungles with giant Misquitoes and snakes everywhere. I remember walking a lot, when I couldn't ride my warhorse. I don't remember the group teleporting everywhere, or using gates, or flying all the damned time, either.
So, in my current campaigns, I have spells like Fly, Gate, teleport, all that stuff, either entirely gone or severely restricted. Also, Raise Dead, Resurrection? Gone. When people die, they usually stay dead. It's over, and time for a dramatic funeral. It also makes dying far more meaningful, which also makes living and surviving, far more meaningful. People rejoice and scream when they live, and when a dear friend or loved one is found tortured and slaughtered, or is cut down by some villain in battle?
Tears actually flow. Armies are raised, and wars are unleashed. Whole cities are put to the torch. Players *BURN* with a seething hatred for their enemies that has them thinking of vengeance, even during th week, before the upcoming game session. They plot and scheme, and go to elaborate efforts to get their revenge against hated villains that have killed beloved characters or NPC's.
The Players know that there's no "do over." The characters are dead, and gone.
No gates, flying, teleporting, wind walking. Fuck that. Travel is alot slower, and more meaningful. Players actually have to travel through land, and Rangers become actually useful, because Players have to actually use skills and resources and knowledge to survive in the wilderness. They don't just fly around to resort hotels until they get to whatever destination they want to go to. This is true at low levels, and true at higher levels.
Likewise, I also don't use lots of crazy plane jumping or visiting other worlds. The campaign world is enormous, and has so much in it, different terrain, climate, cultures, creatures, races, and kingdoms and all that, I haven't ever seen any group explore it all, or even half of it. The mortal world should have plenty to do, and lots of things to keep Players super busy from level 1 ro 30, or whatever. Fuck, when and if they become rulers, of their own little realms, shit really gets interesting, with taxes, training armies, spies, foreign diplomacy, wars, rescue missions, riots, assassination plots, new immigration waves, barbarians on the borders, there is always something going on.
I often like to describe my campaign world as 2 quarters Ancient World, 1 quarter Dark Ages, and 1 quarter Weird. Definitely some magic, and some fantastic, especially in some areas, at different levels, or with different creatures or NPC's, but much of the time, it's a fairly mundane, harsh, and brutal world with a lot of grounding in realism and historical flavour. The whole point of keeping lots of things rather normal, is that when the magical and fantastic does make an appearance, it is very wild, wondrous, and really appreciated. Not just yawned at, and time to teleport into Orcus's throne room. It also means that much of the time, dealing with Humans, Orcs, Beastmen, Frog men, Lizard men, Minotaurs--it's all still pretty normal, physical things. Real emotions, real armour, weapons, real castles, real needs for animals, water, and food, and silver, iron, and gold. Not half-dragon, half rainbow hippo alphabet maiden with a springtime wand and summoning Moon Faeiries to love the Monotaurs in a happy nighttime ren faire party.
I think the game rules should support the kind of campaign you want to run--and not actually work against you, and cause you nothing but problems, because the rules have so much stuff in them that are constantly trying to force you to run a bright happy ren-faire super heroes campaign.
So, I get out the Ghengis Khan Saber of Ruthless DM bastard, and go to work on the rule assumptions, spells, and other trappings and notations throughout the rule books, and slice away. Like Ants eating an Elephant--One Bite At A Time. ;D Until the rules work for me, and don't fight me on everything. That way, the Players also don't roll up their characters with Happy Ren Faire Super Heroes in their minds. NO.
They know that isn't happening for damned sure. ;D
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I once killed a 5e level 20 Druid in one round with a single blue dragon. She made the mistake of approaching it non-Wildshaped. It won init and killed her before she could act.
Quote from: S'mon on November 02, 2021, 05:58:14 AM
I once killed a 5e level 20 Druid in one round with a single blue dragon. She made the mistake of approaching it non-Wildshaped. It won init and killed her before she could act.
If you're talking about an Adult Blue Dragon (CR 16) then yes that makes sense.
Quote from: Svenhelgrim on November 01, 2021, 08:16:34 PM
There are so many things you can do with zombies, and their skinnier cousins: skeletons.
With zombies, you can scoop out their innards and fill them with clay jars of alchemist's fire, or acid, or some noxious gas producing liquid, and wait for that fighter with the greatsword to trigger his own doom.
Infest a zombie with Rot Grubs and you have a nice one-two punch.
Dress up a zombie in rusty Splint Mail (the armor that everyone bypasses) and improve its armor class. Tell those armored zombies to lie down in 18 inches of muddy water and you have a nice ambush. If you don't want to give the players a suit of splint mail as a prize, just bolt some metal plates onto the zombie. Fashion some old scythe blades onto their arms while you're at it. Might as well smear some poison on them too.
Buff your zombies with barkskin, stoneskin, fire shield, haste, and lett them go to town.
Zombies are the ultimate power source. Make them walk on a treadmill to power a mad wizard's engine of destruction, make them reload and fire seige engines ceaselessly. Need a crew for a submarine that won't deplete the air? That's right...ZOMBIES.
Great ideas. The idea of stuffing zombies also makes me think: if a delicate treasure is stored inside the zombies, a conundrum is created, as the players will need to find a way to slay a zombie without hacking it to pieces if they want the loot.
Quote from: Zalman on November 02, 2021, 10:22:09 AM
Quote from: Svenhelgrim on November 01, 2021, 08:16:34 PM
There are so many things you can do with zombies, and their skinnier cousins: skeletons.
With zombies, you can scoop out their innards and fill them with clay jars of alchemist's fire, or acid, or some noxious gas producing liquid, and wait for that fighter with the greatsword to trigger his own doom.
Infest a zombie with Rot Grubs and you have a nice one-two punch.
Dress up a zombie in rusty Splint Mail (the armor that everyone bypasses) and improve its armor class. Tell those armored zombies to lie down in 18 inches of muddy water and you have a nice ambush. If you don't want to give the players a suit of splint mail as a prize, just bolt some metal plates onto the zombie. Fashion some old scythe blades onto their arms while you're at it. Might as well smear some poison on them too.
Buff your zombies with barkskin, stoneskin, fire shield, haste, and lett them go to town.
Zombies are the ultimate power source. Make them walk on a treadmill to power a mad wizard's engine of destruction, make them reload and fire seige engines ceaselessly. Need a crew for a submarine that won't deplete the air? That's right...ZOMBIES.
Great ideas. The idea of stuffing zombies also makes me think: if a delicate treasure is stored inside the zombies, a conundrum is created, as the players will need to find a way to slay a zombie without hacking it to pieces if they want the loot.
Disrupt Undead was always a really useful cantrip, since firing it into melee had almost no drawbacks (since it only damaged undead, no worries if you nailed your fighter by mistake). Channeled energy effects also worked wonders.
Had another character death in our 5e party.
We were in a Duergar clan lair, kicking ass, but unable to take Long Rests (we could sneak in a Short one). And leaving was not a great option, because they would have time to barricade the place up to keep us out.
Final Battle against the Little-Big Bad Evil Guy
Druid, Monk, Cleric, Fighter and "Sorcerer?" NPC ally
We go in at varying levels of "Mostly healed" and low on spell slots.
The Monk and the Fighter get knocked down to 4HP. The Druid gets injured, the Sorcerer is killed and the Cleric is taken to 0HP by a Duergar with multi-attack. The Duergar needed both attacks to drop the Cleric, or would have caused Failed Death Saves on his 2nd attack (1 normally, but 2 if it Crit, which is easier since the attack on a prone creature is at Advantage) . The Druid's 2 healing spells are Counter-spelled. Death Saves are a 1 (meaning 2 fails), 12 (1 success) and a 1 (2 fails). (No one is near enough to attempt Medicine checks to stabilize.)
Since you only need "First 3 out of 5" to determine life or death, it's over for Father Sam. We kill all the Duergar and divide Sam's gear.
DM had a spare (Fighter) character ready.
We're now 2 Fighters, a Monk and a Druid.
:) Sounds exciting and memorable, DM_Curt.
It also reminds me why I always carried a Healing Kit ASAP and tried to teach its wisdom to other tables. 5 gp, 10 uses, one use Stabilizes without a WIS Medicine check. When you can throw money at things to a) universalize success and b) remove the element of chance, it's a bargain! ;)