Moving beyond fantasy and d&d can help along with the two hour session.

I am running Aces & Eights at a western convention and I'm running the skirmish rules for it with a western town I built based on the lost dutchman's mine. It's a two hour scenario.

Quote from: S'mon;1060245I only have the physical endurance for about 4 hours at a time, add another half hour for eating, so 12.30-5pm or 1.30-6pm. Online I prefer 3 hours tops, running Saturdays 08.30-11.15 or so.

Feeling a bit sad now as yesterday we lost the Meetup venue I'd been using for the past year, putting my D&D Meetup pretty much on hold unless/until can get another venue.

Have you looked into local libraries. My first real playing of D&D was with a group that rented out an office meeting room every weekend for like 1$ per hour of use. Probably costs more now but that is something to investigate.

Other options are similar but usually more costly. Restaurants for example. Theres one in easy walking distance with a gaming room that can be rented. Have not checked the price yet. But some do have rentable rooms. Apparently locally there is a venue that specializes in providing meeting rooms. Have not looked into it as seems for larger evends. But may be an avenue to look into locally for you too.

Quote from: Aglondir;1060208Is that available for the GP or just for Kickstarter backers?

Currently only in the hands of KS participants, but should be available to everyone fairly soon. If you are curious and in a rush, it isn't hard to find a copy of the original.

I've had good success with a number of the suggestions already stated:

Running a game with an easy entry bar. 10 - 15 minutes to generate a character is my goal, even for people who have never RPG'd.

Shorter gaming sessions. I find 3 hours is the sweet spot. Just long enough for fulfilling excitement, and short enough to keep a weekly game consistently actually weekly.

Allowing technology. ... but playing a game that's fast enough to make distraction unlikely, and simple enough that tech doesn't really help anyway.

And the biggest score of all for me with regards to attracting new players has been:

Starting a game at your place of employment. If you don't happen to own your own bar, sell it to the boss as a team-building activity. Every new employee will not only be fodder, it becomes an attractive way to get to know your coworkers and be "part of the crew". My boss (who does not herself join the game) nudges me if I ever neglect to invite a new employee to the "office D&D game".

It's difficult to get people to agree to the time commitment, these days.


You must remember that D&D spread like wildfire back in the days before the internet and smartphones.  Virtually everyone is walking around now with more computing power than NASA used to get to the moon in 1969.

Quote from: fearsomepirate;10601501. Make a game that can be played casually.

I've introduced a lot of people to D&D who had fun the first couple sessions, then dropped out when they realized this is the kind of thing that goes on for years with no real "end."

This is why I have an open game table at the games club, but for a fixed term of 12 weeks normally.

At the Free RPG Day this year I got 2-3 people who hadn't gamed for twenty years. Having AD&D1e on offer, it was something familiar to them so they felt more comfortable coming back than if it'd been GURPS4e or something. Likewise with my Classic Traveller open game table, 2 guys who'd not played for 20 years. And both these games and others have attracted both complete newbies and those who'd played other games but not these before.

Having a game club helps - it'd be much harder to get people in if it were my house. And then having an open game table. This is partly an attitude of GM and players, "hi, sit down, this is how you roll up a character, use my dice," and also partly the way the game is structured, it has to be fairly loose and casual, able to survive players coming and going. With my last AD&D1e open game table, there were I think 13 different players in and out, half of whom came several times. We had to keep it casual. No Dragonlance.

Alexander is a piece of shit.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1060927Alexander is a piece of shit.

Greetings!

Pundit, who is Alexander? Why do you think he is a piece of shit? Is he some SJW stuffed animal moron?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I disagree on the time commitment issue being insurmountable.

Boardgames are kicking ass these days and plenty of Meetups play 2-3 games at a sitting for 3+ hours.

As for the technology issue, too many people are have become screen zombies BUT there is a backlash and many people want to disconnect and do something in meatspace with other meat people at least once per week. RPGs are great for those people.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1060940I disagree on the time commitment issue being insurmountable.

Boardgames are kicking ass these days and plenty of Meetups play 2-3 games at a sitting for 3+ hours.

As for the technology issue, too many people are have become screen zombies BUT there is a backlash and many people want to disconnect and do something in meatspace with other meat people at least once per week. RPGs are great for those people.

It's not hours-per-session. It's sessions-to-conclusion that's the roadblock. Games, by definition, have end states; tabletop RPGs don't get there until you run out of practical playable space, which takes years to reach, and that's if you're doing things as they are commonly done now and not as they were in the old days. Board Games don't have that problem; you show up, play for an evening, and you're done. You can go again or not and it won't do any harm to anyone else's ability to play.

We're seeing this happen again in the virtual space; the decline of MMORPGs (the virtual world counterpart to tabletop RPGs) centers around that commitment issue, and it's for the same reason: it takes too damn long to finish, assuming that you CAN finish, and thus why more MMOs fail (and those that endure are iterating away that commitment issue step by step). Drop-in/drop-out group play does reliably work, but take too many people to do a thing or take too long to get the job done and folks bail for something friendlier to their sense of entertainment.

In both cases, you're asking people to make work-like commitments for entertainment purposes, and that shit does not fly- especially when there is a plethora of compelling alternatives that scratch the itch well enough without demanding scheduling your fun over long periods of time. Just as most people have no stomach for top-end raiding in World of Warcraft, most people have no stomach for set-schedule TRPG play no matter how much they otherwise may enjoy the experience.

You want to fix this? Regress harder to the old ways, with open tables and multiple PCs per player, and you'll get them back. They'll come when it's convenient, not when it's commanded.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1060927Alexander is a piece of shit.

And yet his contributions have been more useful to my actual gaming than yours, including your comment here.

Quote from: SHARK;1060939Pundit, who is Alexander? Why do you think he is a piece of shit? Is he some SJW stuffed animal moron?

No, he's not. Neither is Ron Edwards, who if anything is as un PC as you can get. Didn't stop Pundit from having a hate on for him.

Despite his cries of defending principles Pundit is ultimately obsessed with his personal vendettas, and in this way is no better than any other SJW. He has the right idea on many things, but he's also the kind of toxic advocate we need to call out in the same way people who embrace the label SJW unironically need to call out Anita and Zoe. Because we're not going to make any progress if those are the folks defining our movements, and the fact they're so eager to do so should be a warning sign.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1060960And yet his contributions have been more useful to my actual gaming than yours

That's a bit like saying "Matt Easton knows more about swords than you do" - it's a pretty high bar to get over!

AFAICT Pundit and Alexander hate each other equally and take every opportunity to slag each other off, whereas most of Pundit's many targets just ignore him. I have no idea what the original source of this particular hate was but they both can be obnoxious. About equally obnoxious, though as you say, Alexander has probably contributed more, depending on exactly how much of Pundit's advice to Mearls made it into 5e.

Quote from: Razor 007;1060472It's difficult to get people to agree to the time commitment, these days.


You must remember that D&D spread like wildfire back in the days before the internet and smartphones.  Virtually everyone is walking around now with more computing power than NASA used to get to the moon in 1969.

Anybody with their nose in a smartphone probably won't be a good player anyway.

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;1060958We're seeing this happen again in the virtual space; the decline of MMORPGs (the virtual world counterpart to tabletop RPGs) centers around that commitment issue, and it's for the same reason: it takes too damn long to finish, assuming that you CAN finish, and thus why more MMOs fail (and those that endure are iterating away that commitment issue step by step). Drop-in/drop-out group play does reliably work, but take too many people to do a thing or take too long to get the job done and folks bail for something friendlier to their sense of entertainment.

I quit World of Warcraft because of the move away from time commitment. To be specific, the Looking For Raid and Looking For Dungeon features make it very easy to find a group of random people to run a raid or dungeon. But it also replaces the need for a guild to co-ordinate raids and dungeons. And so with no need for a guild, I had my reason for playing WoW removed, and quit.

QuoteIn both cases, you're asking people to make work-like commitments for entertainment purposes, and that shit does not fly- especially when there is a plethora of compelling alternatives that scratch the itch well enough without demanding scheduling your fun over long periods of time. Just as most people have no stomach for top-end raiding in World of Warcraft, most people have no stomach for set-schedule TRPG play no matter how much they otherwise may enjoy the experience.

I have to make time commitments for most of my entertainment. It is possible, and I did for a long time, to just play video games. They're far more convenient. But video games and movies just don't scratch the itch of something like D&D or X-Wing Miniatures.
If you play on any kind of league or group, (softball, renisannce, LARP, yoga, tiddlywinks, bowling) you're going to have to commit some regular time to it. Open table techniques can make this more palatable for new players, but in the end, you're either going to play a lot of casual RPG, or get into a campaign. I'm all for encouraging people to play and accomadating their time needs, but they eventually have to get the hell out of the house and schlep their bods down the street to wherever the group is playing.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1060980I quit World of Warcraft because of the move away from time commitment. To be specific, the Looking For Raid and Looking For Dungeon features make it very easy to find a group of random people to run a raid or dungeon. But it also replaces the need for a guild to co-ordinate raids and dungeons. And so with no need for a guild, I had my reason for playing WoW removed, and quit.

That's funny. I detest LFR/LFG because the quality of the players in pick-up groups/raids *blows*. I play to do "hard" content (it's an MMO kids, nothing is hard - but tell that to casual players that dick around and want to only press random buttons for "fun" and you'll get verbally abused) , with other people that want that same challenge.

This is analogous to TTRPG players that want to join my campaigns but only want to play one-shots and/or can only commit to a single four-hour session per month. Nope - I play weekly. I play for a minimum of 8-hrs in a stretch. I run campaigns that aim for years in length. But aside from the inevitable sensitive male-feminist that found my games "too intense" my general method has good results.




Raiding Guilds in WoW are exactly like *good* gaming groups. They require cultivation and commitment. I'm of the mind that this problem of "Attracting Casual Gamers" is one that isn't a problem at all. It's the natural order of things when it comes to group-activities. It requires people of like-mind and like desire to want high-quality things. I can spend 4-minutes grinding and brewing the best coffee in the world or I can stare at my phone while a Keurig K-Cup shits out crappy coffee in less than 1-minute, that someone who is actively un-invested in coffee, out of general ignorance or discernment, and fulfill the same perceived need.

They are not necessarily the same. Just like because you get three friends to film you babbling into your mic isn't the same thing as actual musicians getting together to make Van Halen in the garage (nevermind that they're AWESOME players in general). They require different things for different reasons. One is *easier* than the other. One is more convenient than the other. One is far more prone to crash than that other. But only one of these is capable of achieving certain qualities that the other simply, mechanically, cannot.

I have no evidence that easy-mode keeps players playing longer. I have a lot of evidence that hard-mode does. As I have three groups of different players that I now have been GMing for *multiple* decades with some filtering in and out at various points (thanks technology!). And the GM's in these groups all do it a little different - but are in it for the same reasons and have the same goals.

My only reliable answer to this is: Become a good GM. Run good games. Do epic stuff organically - not because a module spells it out for you. Make epic players that want to do epic stuff - even if it's low-key. They will become Epic GM's.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1060980I have to make time commitments for most of my entertainment. It is possible, and I did for a long time, to just play video games. They're far more convenient. But video games and movies just don't scratch the itch of something like D&D or X-Wing Miniatures.
If you play on any kind of league or group, (softball, renisannce, LARP, yoga, tiddlywinks, bowling) you're going to have to commit some regular time to it. Open table techniques can make this more palatable for new players, but in the end, you're either going to play a lot of casual RPG, or get into a campaign. I'm all for encouraging people to play and accomadating their time needs, but they eventually have to get the hell out of the house and schlep their bods down the street to wherever the group is playing.

Yep. And they have to make the same decisions everyone else does with their hobbies. Go big or go home. I choose to go big. Most people that dabble in TTRPG's do what you're currently doing with video-games... it's sliding off their radar of importance *because* they've never gotten the Itch that TTRPG's gave you. That doesn't happen from no-where. That's not going to happen because you ran through a sad-sack session of Adventure League's "Dungeon of the Mad Mage". It happens when you play that game that rocks your world. Challenges your assumptions about what the game can be. You need a GM that has a D.O.N.G. Blackbelt that wants their games to get "there" and stay "there". It becomes the Unscratchable Itch.

It's the Surfer's "Stoke". It's the "Zone". To bring people into gaming and keep them there - they need to touch this or they'll dwindle away. For most people, I think this is okay - because they probably are not that invested anyhow which is how most people approach their lives in one form or another. The key is finding those that want to be invested.

TTRPG's for me is like other people's Softball League. Bowling. Competitive Hula-hooping. I take it as my serious entertainment hobby. My wife and children all understand this - because I've made it clear, it's part of my life. I make zero apologies for it. When I'm placed into cryonic suspension my dice will be floating around -320F (-195C) with me.