Quote from: 1989;524479Of course it does.

I would like to see my preferred play style be supported once again.

Officially supported, you mean.

Quote from: Aos;524480Officially supported, you mean.

Yes, officially supported as official Dungeons and Dragons (TM).

When your play style is no longer supported by the rules, it's hard to tap into the large playerbase/network of D&D.

4e to 5e will be a huge shift. We are going from, in 4e, a veritable board wargame, back to, in 5e, a game where grids/minis will be an optional add-on.

That makes all the difference in the world. For me.

In a way, it feels like a huge victory.

Quote from: 1989;524486When your play style is no longer supported by the rules, it's hard to tap into the large playerbase/network of D&D.

Definitely.

This is the main reason why I have not played a regular 1E AD&D game, in a long time.

Of the local 1E AD&D groups I am aware of, they consist of certain individuals whom I absolutely refuse to play any rpg games with.  (Largely from too many prior bad experiences with these particular individuals).

Quote from: DestroyYouAlot;524460And the fans of these (distinct, separate) games all have different priorities and preferences, many of which are contradictory.  

Exactly. I pointed out just a handful (12) of these contradictory preferences in a blog post last summer when some people started talking about how neat it would be to have one edition that pleased almost everyone: A New Edition of D&D Designed to Unite D&D Players -- Can It Be Done?

Quote from: Aos;524028Anyway, on topic. I don't care if the hobby is shrinking or growing. Lives are not at stake.

I totally agree with this too. I doubt if ti will vanish entirely, but even if it does... there are other hobbies.

Quote from: jibbajibba;524087Combat is the thing though.
Its been said , and countered, numerous times but if your rule book is 1/3 combat, 1/3 equiment you can use for combat and 1/3 characters who are all comabt balanced then chances are your game will have a lot of combat.

One of the key isues RPGs suffer from is the inability to really emulate much that isn't combat.
You get a bit of exporation
You get some investigation mechanics
You get some social mechanics.

The last two are roundly ciritised in toto by a lot of players.

RPGs emerged from wargames, you can't escape that and building a game that isn't focused or at least has a lot of time for, combat is very difficult.

I think you can do it. with discovery investigation clue /quest object type mechanics, like collect all the rainbow fairy colours or whatever

I also think a really good magic system that did more that COMBAT and had some depth. Something like combining elelments to get effects or whatever, again with the puzzle route might work as well.

Of course my daugher would still just chop its head off and eat it but then ....

I think the reason you see more combat mechanics and many RPers (including me) are not as enamored with social or exploration mechanics is because it's much easier to fairly RP social and exploratory situations than it is combat ones. Through talking and narrating in character social interactions can easily be RPed without resorting to dice. Same with exploring. However, I'm not going to get up and act out melee combat with my GM. I agree about the magic though. Once again, it's difficult to fairly and consistently straight RP magic without rules, whether the given magic is combat oriented or not. So for me games that contain combat and magic rules (and other hard-to-straight-rp things like chases, exposure, traps, etc..), but not social or exploration rules are the most desirable.

Quote from: 1989;524486Yes, officially supported as official Dungeons and Dragons (TM).

When your play style is no longer supported by the rules, it's hard to tap into the large playerbase/network of D&D.

4e to 5e will be a huge shift. We are going from, in 4e, a veritable board wargame, back to, in 5e, a game where grids/minis will be an optional add-on.

That makes all the difference in the world. For me.

In a way, it feels like a huge victory.

Fair enough, I've no interest in tapping into the large player base- especially not if it largely consists of the fellows i see down at the LGS.

Quote from: Aos;524502Fair enough, I've no interest in tapping into the large player base- especially not if it largely consists of the fellows i see down at the LGS.

Over 2010, I ended up resorting to playing 4E D&D games at nearby gaming stores.  Most of these players were less than desirable for the most part.  Though I was willing to put up with it.

Turning away players was generally not an option.  (It was frowned upon by the game store manager, since it could potentially turn away customers).

Quote from: ggroy;524504Over 2010, I ended up restoring to playing 4E D&D games at nearby gaming stores.  Most of these players were less than desirable for the most part.  Though I was willing to put up with it.

Turning away players was generally not an option.  (It was frowned upon by the game store manager, since it could potentially turn away customers).

I can understand the store manager's attitude, but you will lose worthwhile Players if you do not remove the shitty Players.

Quote from: jeff37923;524505I can understand the store manager's attitude, but you will lose worthwhile Players if you do not remove the shitty Players.

For sure.

Some of the worthwhile players did indeed walk away from some of the games hosted at the gaming stores.  One of these departed players, though was still a regular customer at the store.  (Dunno about the other departed players).

Quote from: ggroy;524306What would be really amusing is if 5E D&D ends up being abruptly canceled several months before it was to be released, by Hasbro/WotC shutting down the D&D division and firing everybody.

Wonder what the new edition cheerleaders will suddenly say in such a scenario, if it were to happen.

:rolleyes:

This is a stupid thing to be wishing for, unless you really wish our hobby ill.  However, in answer to your question, I'll tell you what would happen: 5e would immediately become the "dream that never was", the utopia that we were on the verge of getting but was denied us.  It would make the nostalgia of OSR fanboys pale by comparison and would give birth to a movement of "speculative editions" of what a final 5e product "would have" looked like. There will be huge swathes of gamers, including many who were hyper-critical and cynical about 5e at the time, who will now be unbendably convinced that 5e would have been the one true and ideal edition of D&D that would have satisfied everyone.

It'll become a myth, in other words, like "what might have happened if JFK/RFK/Che Guevara hadn't been killed"?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;524547This is a stupid thing to be wishing for, unless you really wish our hobby ill.  However, in answer to your question, I'll tell you what would happen: 5e would immediately become the "dream that never was", the utopia that we were on the verge of getting but was denied us.  It would make the nostalgia of OSR fanboys pale by comparison and would give birth to a movement of "speculative editions" of what a final 5e product "would have" looked like. There will be huge swathes of gamers, including many who were hyper-critical and cynical about 5e at the time, who will now be unbendably convinced that 5e would have been the one true and ideal edition of D&D that would have satisfied everyone.

It'll become a myth, in other words, like "what might have happened if JFK/RFK/Che Guevara hadn't been killed"?

RPGPundit

I agree about not hoping it would happen, but wouldn't be interesting if because there would be no GSL or whatever to block it causing it to be produced by some startup company down the line?

Quote from: Marleycat;524549I agree about not hoping it would happen, but wouldn't be interesting if because there would be no GSL or whatever to block it causing it to be produced by some startup company down the line?

This would assume either an alpha or beta copy of the 5E ruleset was released to the public, or the people who signed NDAs with WotC are no longer beholden to it.

Quote from: RPGPundit;524547This is a stupid thing to be wishing for, unless you really wish our hobby ill.  However, in answer to your question, I'll tell you what would happen: 5e would immediately become the "dream that never was", the utopia that we were on the verge of getting but was denied us.  It would make the nostalgia of OSR fanboys pale by comparison and would give birth to a movement of "speculative editions" of what a final 5e product "would have" looked like. There will be huge swathes of gamers, including many who were hyper-critical and cynical about 5e at the time, who will now be unbendably convinced that 5e would have been the one true and ideal edition of D&D that would have satisfied everyone.

It'll become a myth, in other words, like "what might have happened if JFK/RFK/Che Guevara hadn't been killed"?

RPGPundit

Something like this would most likely be in the longer term.  (Sorta similar to how a famous rock star or movie star who died in their prime, years later become a "legend" like a James Dean, Kurt Cobain, Janis Joplin, etc ...).

In the immediate aftermath of a hypothetical cancellation, most likely the fanatical cheerleaders will be in denial while the detractors will be gloating in a schadenfreude victory.

Quote from: 1989;524486Yes, officially supported as official Dungeons and Dragons (TM).

When your play style is no longer supported by the rules, it's hard to tap into the large playerbase/network of D&D.

4e to 5e will be a huge shift. We are going from, in 4e, a veritable board wargame, back to, in 5e, a game where grids/minis will be an optional add-on.

That makes all the difference in the world. For me.

In a way, it feels like a huge victory.

Yeah, looking forward to what they are cooking up.  I am also looking forward to this:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/705393141/myth-and-magic-players-guide-2e-revived-and-update

It just went live, and they already took my money, lol.

Incidentally, there are two full 2e groups in the large Asian city where I abide.  I will be joining one this weekend.  There is no way you could have convinced me of the possibility of this just a few months ago.  There are also several other 3e and 4e groups as well I believe, mostly expats.  

I doubt there is much market penetration on the local community though.  The Chinese version of the 3.0 and 3.5 core books was pretty well done, but the local retailers were stuck with a ton of expensive English 3.5 hardbacks when the editions flipped.  The fact that there were Chinese 3.5 core books published after 3.0, suggests that there was a market for the game in the past.  China had Chinese 3e and 4.0 core books, but I do not know if they took off.  Linky:

http://dnd.zongheng.com/main.shtml

seems like DND is doing ok in China (outdated but links to interesting info):

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/23378-dungeons-dragons/