A friend of mine sent me thishttps://youtu.be/9mugTmdCE2w (https://youtu.be/9mugTmdCE2w)
Very good!
Sounds like a great Unknown Armies game.
Quote from: dungeon crawler;846961A friend of mine sent me thishttps://youtu.be/9mugTmdCE2w (https://youtu.be/9mugTmdCE2w)
I dont even.... is that what hipsters are? Are these people common in the States?
Pretty funny, though it seems more like a poke at Millennials in general.
Quote from: TristramEvans;847027I dont even.... is that what hipsters are? Are these people common in the States?
Never actually met one, but then again you don't see much besides trees and red necks where I'm from.
Quote from: Arkansan;847038Never actually met one, but then again you don't see much besides trees and red necks where I'm from.
Legit question, do you have trouble finding players? I mean, what's it like being a GM out there?
Quote from: Arkansan;847038Never actually met one, but then again you don't see much besides trees and red necks where I'm from.
As I understand they are mostly an urban phenomena. Like smog. :D
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;847048Legit question, do you have trouble finding players? I mean, what's it like being a GM out there?
In all fairness I live in the most populated area of the state so it's not as bad as it could be, but I do have trouble finding anything other than PF and D&D players. I have lived in rural areas before where the entire gaming scene consisted of me and like two other dudes.
Quote from: TristramEvans;847027I dont even.... is that what hipsters are? Are these people common in the States?
I thought I had a passing familiarity with hipsters, living in a largish Canadian city. I'd seen them around. Had a sense of some of their habits and attitudes. Even had friends who were sort of proto-hipsters.
Then I went to the Chicago. The trendy, hipster part of Chicago. And I was surrounded by thousands of them. And far, far more hipster than the people in the video. These were pure strain hipsters in their core habitat. You couldn't swing a stick without knocking four bearded, neck-tatooed, and spectacled dudes off their fixed-gear bikes and into organic pizzerias that had 15 brands of pale ale on tap. The stereotypes were surpassed beyond all belief.
Quote from: TristramEvans;847027I dont even.... is that what hipsters are? Are these people common in the States?
The only hipsters I've met in the US, on the east coast at least, seem to spend most of their time complaining about hipsters. So I am still struggling to understand what they are exactly. I'm assuming all of the real hipsters live out of state on the west coast for the most part. My feeling is a person being overly fond of their vanilla chai latte's with two shots of espresso, or having a weird fixation with vinyl records and groomed beards, is little threat to me personally, so more power to them them if they want to be that way. Bless them and their skinny jeans. The only hipster stereotype that bothers me when I actually encounter it is Ironic Enjoyment of things. That I simply don't understand (just admit you like Rocky IV and move on, no need to protect yourself with the arm's length of irony).
That said, the video was pretty funny.
This satirical article snippet sorta covers it:
"I listen to Fleet Foxes and I knew that song before it was famous. I know the location of every thrift shop within a 30-mile radius of here, and my record player was given to me by a member of Modest Mouse (I won't say which one because I'm intriguing and mysterious). I can totally fully relate to Holden Caulfield, and judging by his movies, it was almost as if John Hughes knew me personally. Sometimes I read Hemingway on the bus while I wear my oversized reading glasses that I found at a Fleetwood Mac concert.
If I'm not complaining about how the show Freaks and Geeks was cancelled then I'm scouring New York City for a denim jacket that is the appropriate level of distressed. You may find me strolling along the streets in the fall wearing my yellow Doc Martens and avoiding eye-contact. I sojourn in coffee shops made entirely of bamboo that sell only acai seeds, Larabars and freshly ground coffee from obscure places in South America. I appreciate any homage to the great Woody Allen, and have a single cactus plant that I keep by the window to attract others of my kind. I own several guitars and no tuner and if anyone asks it is because I have perfect pitch, not because I cannot play. I wear plaid shirts around my waist and make witty references to movies you've never seen before. Ok so maybe I don't actually use that typewriter, but it looks really good on that driftwood shelf next to all my mason jars.
But I am not a "Hipster" because the title itself confines me to a stereotype and I believe self-definition is overrated."
http://getthestandard.com/scoop/field-guide-hipster-pt-1/
Evidently, knowledge of part pop culture is all that's required. As a VERY good Trivial Pursuit player (who does not use his phone to cheat), I feel I could possibly be a decent hipster. Unfortunately, can't discuss -- have to hop in my flivver. I'm togged to the bricks and gotta get to work. Don't wanna be a crumb, after all.
Who are those guys who wear big loose scarves bundled around their necks... like a turban that came undone. Usually they've got careful manscaping and work on documentary films. Are those guys hipsters? I'm irrationally annoyed by them... mostly because of the giant scarf thing... and their self seriousness.
Quote from: Simlasa;847183Who are those guys who wear big loose scarves bundled around their necks... like a turban that came undone. Usually they've got careful manscaping and work on documentary films. Are those guys hipsters? I'm irrationally annoyed by them... mostly because of the giant scarf thing... and their self seriousness.
They are all John Malkovich.
Quote from: cranebump;847168This satirical article snippet sorta covers it:
"I listen to Fleet Foxes and I knew that song before it was famous. I know the location of every thrift shop within a 30-mile radius of here, and my record player was given to me by a member of Modest Mouse (I won't say which one because I'm intriguing and mysterious). I can totally fully relate to Holden Caulfield, and judging by his movies, it was almost as if John Hughes knew me personally. Sometimes I read Hemingway on the bus while I wear my oversized reading glasses that I found at a Fleetwood Mac concert.
If I'm not complaining about how the show Freaks and Geeks was cancelled then I'm scouring New York City for a denim jacket that is the appropriate level of distressed. You may find me strolling along the streets in the fall wearing my yellow Doc Martens and avoiding eye-contact. I sojourn in coffee shops made entirely of bamboo that sell only acai seeds, Larabars and freshly ground coffee from obscure places in South America. I appreciate any homage to the great Woody Allen, and have a single cactus plant that I keep by the window to attract others of my kind. I own several guitars and no tuner and if anyone asks it is because I have perfect pitch, not because I cannot play. I wear plaid shirts around my waist and make witty references to movies you've never seen before. Ok so maybe I don't actually use that typewriter, but it looks really good on that driftwood shelf next to all my mason jars.
But I am not a "Hipster" because the title itself confines me to a stereotype and I believe self-definition is overrated."
http://getthestandard.com/scoop/field-guide-hipster-pt-1/
That one's pretty spot-on. :)
Quote from: Arkansan;847103In all fairness I live in the most populated area of the state so it's not as bad as it could be, but I do have trouble finding anything other than PF and D&D players. I have lived in rural areas before where the entire gaming scene consisted of me and like two other dudes.
Strangely enough I'm in the third most populated area and I don't know of any D&D or Pathfinder gaming going on around here. Savage Worlds, Earthdawn, Shadows of Esteren, 13th Age, Cthulhu, and GURPS campaigns have all been done in the last year or two, but there haven't been any D&D/PF games among the gamers I know for at least four years.
I really consider myself lucky because I did grow up in a rural area but we still had nearly a dozen people who regularly cycled in and out for games.
Funny video. For some reason I was under the impression hipsters played White Wolf games.
The thing about hipsters isn't their taste in clothes, grooming, coffee, beer, or music. Craft beers, vinyl, and roots music are all things I personally enjoy as well. It's the fact that they passionately champion authenticity and originality, and yet by an astonishing coincidence, they've authentically and originally ended up dressing and behaving remarkably similar to hundreds of thousands of other people of their socio-economic cohort.
Anyway, I hope the makers of the video do more. I'd love to see those characters argue over what their favourite RPGs is. The true hipster would champion Traveller or Empire of the Petal Throne. Maybe Metamorphosis Alpha. Something old, neglected, and 'authentic'. Or they'd go full ironic and play Dragonlance era D&D.
It's the self-conscious, trying-too-hard bohemian. Every age has its counterculture, but this one is deliberately tongue and cheek about everything pop, and gravely serious about the obscure.
I live in SF Bay Area. We know these things. It was over and done here before it became cliché in the rest of the nation.
Hipster chic is so last decade. It's like totally retro, like the entire 90s, except those were cool, like the 80s seem now. Which is totally unlike the 80s when you were stuck living the diet pepsi, miller's outpost, pegged/flooded jean suburban mall of them instead of the coke-fueled, day-glo MTV image of them sold on the fashion runway.
I'm too old for all this. Buy my knitting and crayon drawings already. I have more food allergies and socially conscious sensitivities than you, so you owe me. :mad:
I'm kinda-sorta Hipster-y in some ways. Some friends and co-workers think so anyways. Not a compliment allthough said friends/co-workers Are also Hipster-y in some ways. :idunno:
Not style vise though unless Hawaii shirts and sideburns become Hipster-y. :D
Why does the thread title go, "Hipster/TBP"? :confused:
I don't see TBP as very Hipster-y at all. Maybe it was a decade or so ago (actually I guess it kinda was, really, a decade or so ago. Allthough in a geeky way) these days it's really quite lowbrow* (ironically, what with the widespread and sometimes virulent classism against the Working Class there) and that doesn't mix well with hipsterism, and a frequent lack of irony wich really doesn't mix well with hipsterism. Hipsterism and slacktivism can mix - see: Britta in Community - but not in this case IMO.
*=note the popularity of metal, especially Viking Metal, Manowar style metal, symphonic stuff with fantasy lyrics, Sabaton, etc.
(For the record I'm kinda lowbrow behaviour vise but everyone knows it's just a thing I do so I'm still Hipster-y :D)
Main common point between hipsters and TBP is that Pundit hates both. :pundit:
Sure lots of Tangencites sport murderhobo beards but beards Are basically mainstream now, real hipsters wearing moustaches. Hm, that makes Pundit Hipster-y :rotfl:
I'd say the OSR is roleplayerdom's most Hipster-y thing (yes, moreso than indie storygames :p)
We have an entirely different thing going in my part of Colorado.
4 wheel drive vehicle (crucial element)
Dog
Own lots of gear (outdoor/camping stuff)
Encyclopedic knowledge of micro brew beer and/or locally grown weed.
Dress like hobo/escaped convict regardles of politics
Music is tastes vary widely here.
I am dogsitting otherwise I wouldn't fit the criterea, and I actually need a 4wd vehicle and outdoor gear for work sometimes, which is kind of cheating. Fwiw, we get a lot of hiking masters, been everywhere, walked every trail, at work, who fall apart within a day of going off trail- which is all we do.
Quote from: Haffrung;847204The thing about hipsters isn't their taste in clothes, grooming, coffee, beer, or music. Craft beers, vinyl, and roots music are all things I personally enjoy as well. It's the fact that they passionately champion authenticity and originality, and yet by an astonishing coincidence, they've authentically and originally ended up dressing and behaving remarkably similar to a large cohort of other people of their socio-economic cohort.
Anyway, I hope the makers of the video do more. I'd love to see those characters argue over what their favourite RPGs is. The true hipster would champion Traveller or Empire of the Petal Throne. Maybe Metamorphosis Alpha. Something old, neglected, and 'authentic'. Or they'd go full ironic and play Dragonlance era D&D.
They have a gangsta D&D video, as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTJiDeP0Wv8
And then, of course, this classic:
https://vimeo.com/39114507
Quote from: Haffrung;847204Anyway, I hope the makers of the video do more. I'd love to see those characters argue over what their favourite RPGs is. The true hipster would champion Traveller or Empire of the Petal Throne. Maybe Metamorphosis Alpha. Something old, neglected, and 'authentic'.
The OSR is the most hipster branch of D&D.
No one can define Hipsters but we know them when we see them! Like the Devil or porn!
Quote from: Nexus;847253No one can define Hipsters but we know them when we see them! Like the Devil or porn!
The devil does have a pretty well groomed goatee.....
That's not a knife.
This is a knife (http://www.vice.com/read/a-love-letter-to-dungeons-and-dragons-017).
(Just up today.)
Quote from: Zak S;847257That's not a knife.
This is a knife (http://www.vice.com/read/a-love-letter-to-dungeons-and-dragons-017).
(Just up today.)
Link doesn't seem to be working for me.
Try again.
Quote from: Zak S;847267Try again.
Working now.
Quote from: hexgrid;847251The OSR is the most hipster branch of D&D.
I posted that before it was a thing. :p
There is no way to contextualize this without quoting from your blog, so let's start there:
Quote from: Zak SD&D gives you not only a reason to make real actual stuff, but a reason other people should care. At conventions you can see LED-lit mazes that make the Jackson Hobbit SFX team look like hacks, but the heart of the game is palace towers made from coffee cans and pig men painted with nail polish and crossing "winter wolf" off the wandering monster chart and writing in "warsnail." The nearest equivalent is the culture around the post-50s decadent-psychotic era of homemaking magazines when Woman's Day would show you how to make, like, shirred herring salad in the shape of an igloo on the rim of a lake of blue Jell-O. And for good reason: these distant scenes are both, at heart, about the ephemeral art of throwing parties. The eight-layer raisin-pineapple compote carousel and the foamcore Skull Fortress of the Hate Toad will both be gutted in 40 minutes, but right now it's fun and right now it's weird and that's a party. And when it's dead you spend a week planning the next one.
Thanks Zak for reminding me about those decadent-psychotic era homemaking mags. I have been doing D&D through decadent cooking fantasia with Game of Thrones grittiness (it started so lighthearted...). I had battlefields with trebuchets flinging flaming meringue and lady-in-waiting massive conical hats veiled with edible sugar sculpture. But why re-invent the wheel? Now I have old cookbooks and magazines to sift through!
:cheerleader:
Exalted is hipster D and D.
Quote from: Haffrung;847204The thing about hipsters isn't their taste in clothes, grooming, coffee, beer, or music. Craft beers, vinyl, and roots music are all things I personally enjoy as well. It's the fact that they passionately champion authenticity and originality, and yet by an astonishing coincidence, they've authentically and originally ended up dressing and behaving remarkably similar to hundreds of thousands of other people of their socio-economic cohort.
I don't think there's anything coincidental about it. There are only so many ways one can emulate Andy Warhol. The fact there exist people who seem to believe this is a worthy endeavor is the reason I hate them.
Quote from: The Ent;847220(ironically, what with the widespread and sometimes virulent classism against the Working Class there)
In my experience most hipsters, at least in my neck o' the woods, invariably seem to come from fairly affluent backgrounds, and the closest they ever get to having anything to do with the working class is invading shitty little dive bars en masse, drinking cheap, shitty beer and pretending it isn't cheap, shitty beer while dressed in flannel and rags because that's what Andy Warhol said poor people dress like. Their attitude toward people who are actually working class could probably be said to be more condescending than contemptuous (as is the case with Purple), but they're generally just as far removed from honestly engaging with blue collar folk as the ivory tower progressives.
Quote from: Aos;847225We have an entirely different thing going in my part of Colorado.
4 wheel drive vehicle (crucial element)
Dog
Own lots of gear (outdoor/camping stuff)
Encyclopedic knowledge of micro brew beer and/or locally grown weed.
Dress like hobo/escaped convict regardles of politics
Music is tastes vary widely here.
I am dogsitting otherwise I wouldn't fit the criterea, and I actually need a 4wd vehicle and outdoor gear for work sometimes, which is kind of cheating. Fwiw, we get a lot of hiking masters, been everywhere, walked every trail, at work, who fall apart within a day of going off trail- which is all we do.
One of the nice things about living in SLC is we get to watch the hipsters rub shoulders with the trail nuts. Some of 'em even blend the two to make things really entertaining.
I could never stand trail hiking myself. Defeats the whole bloody point of heading off into the mountains in the first place.
Quote from: Haffrung;847108I thought I had a passing familiarity with hipsters, living in a largish Canadian city. I'd seen them around. Had a sense of some of their habits and attitudes. Even had friends who were sort of proto-hipsters.
Then I went to the Chicago. The trendy, hipster part of Chicago. And I was surrounded by thousands of them. And far, far more hipster than the people in the video. These were pure strain hipsters in their core habitat. You couldn't swing a stick without knocking four bearded, neck-tatooed, and spectacled dudes off their fixed-gear bikes and into organic pizzerias that had 15 brands of pale ale on tap. The stereotypes were surpassed beyond all belief.
I was in the UK recently for the first time in a couple of years and yes this.
It was like every block under 35 had a beard a short back and sides with a brill creamed quiff, a checked shirt, tats, glasses, etc etc ... twas quite surreal.
Quote from: woodsmoke;847320I don't think there's anything coincidental about it. There are only so many ways one can emulate Andy Warhol. The fact there exist people who seem to believe this is a worthy endeavor is the reason I hate them.
In my experience most hipsters, at least in my neck o' the woods, invariably seem to come from fairly affluent backgrounds, and the closest they ever get to having anything to do with the working class is invading shitty little dive bars en masse, drinking cheap, shitty beer and pretending it isn't cheap, shitty beer while dressed in flannel and rags because that's what Andy Warhol said poor people dress like. Their attitude toward people who are actually working class could probably be said to be more condescending than contemptuous (as is the case with Purple), but they're generally just as far removed from honestly engaging with blue collar folk as the ivory tower progressives.
One of the nice things about living in SLC is we get to watch the hipsters rub shoulders with the trail nuts. Some of 'em even blend the two to make things really entertaining.
I could never stand trail hiking myself. Defeats the whole bloody point of heading off into the mountains in the first place.
I have done a lot of work in the Unitah Basin, I kinda love Utah.
Have we had this yet?
The mandatory "rise of the idiots" clip from Nathan Barley:
https://youtu.be/lhAr_UeroCk (https://youtu.be/lhAr_UeroCk)
From 2005. Prescient.
Quote from: Haffrung;847204The thing about hipsters isn't their taste in clothes, grooming, coffee, beer, or music. Craft beers, vinyl, and roots music are all things I personally enjoy as well. It's the fact that they passionately champion authenticity and originality, and yet by an astonishing coincidence, they've authentically and originally ended up dressing and behaving remarkably similar to hundreds of thousands of other people of their socio-economic cohort.
Anyway, I hope the makers of the video do more. I'd love to see those characters argue over what their favourite RPGs is. The true hipster would champion Traveller or Empire of the Petal Throne. Maybe Metamorphosis Alpha. Something old, neglected, and 'authentic'. Or they'd go full ironic and play Dragonlance era D&D.
There was something original in Traveller?
I thought Hipster D&D was called Exalted...
Quote from: Christopher Brady;847528I thought Hipster D&D was called Exalted...
Posting that quip was cool yesterday, when Nexus did it. :p
Quote from: The Ent;847529Posting that quip was cool yesterday, when Nexus did it. :p
Musta missed that. Sorry.
Quote from: The Ent;847220I don't see TBP as very Hipster-y at all. Maybe it was a decade or so ago (actually I guess it kinda was, really, a decade or so ago. Allthough in a geeky way) these days it's really quite lowbrow* (ironically, what with the widespread and sometimes virulent classism against the Working Class there) and that doesn't mix well with hipsterism, and a frequent lack of irony wich really doesn't mix well with hipsterism. Hipsterism and slacktivism can mix - see: Britta in Community - but not in this case IMO.
Same here. I moved from Chicago a few years ago, and new a number of full-blown hipsters. They would have zero time for the in-crowd at RPG.net. Hipsters are more honest about their exclusivity for one thing. They just openly look down their nose at people who aren't cool. RPG.net seems to be about being being inclusive in the narrowest way possible.
Quote from: hexgrid;847251The OSR is the most hipster branch of D&D.
Some elements of it, definitely.
Quote from: Nexus;847302Exalted is hipster D and D.
Not seeing it. As RPGs go, its actually too big to be hip. It made a bundle on Kickstarter. You used to be able to buy it at Borders. There are plenty of obscure new indie games or obscure out-of-print ones out there that can kill it on hipster cred. It's also too old to be cool while being new to be retro. It's a lingering artifact from when Gen X was still cool.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;847531Musta missed that. Sorry.
You're appropriating on my work as a minority creative. Check your privilege!
:D
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;847256The devil does have a pretty well groomed goatee.....
Ha!
More seriously, hipster seems to be one of those terms that been applied to so many different things that its hard to tell exactly what someone means when they use it now. Even in the video the gamers were a combination of things.
Quote from: Zak S;847257That's not a knife.
This is a knife (http://www.vice.com/read/a-love-letter-to-dungeons-and-dragons-017).
(Just up today.)
Um...congratulations on being
more hipster than the OP's video I guess?
Isn't Dungeon World the officially approved hipster D&D?
Quote from: Haffrung;847204The thing about hipsters isn't their taste in clothes, grooming, coffee, beer, or music. Craft beers, vinyl, and roots music are all things I personally enjoy as well. It's the fact that they passionately champion authenticity and originality, and yet by an astonishing coincidence, they've authentically and originally ended up dressing and behaving remarkably similar to hundreds of thousands of other people of their socio-economic cohort.
"Yeah, they all want to express their individuality in exactly the same way." -- my dad, 1967.
That which is old is new again.
Quote from: Opaopajr;847292There is no way to contextualize this without quoting from your blog, so let's start there:
Thanks Zak for reminding me about those decadent-psychotic era homemaking mags. I have been doing D&D through decadent cooking fantasia with Game of Thrones grittiness (it started so lighthearted...). I had battlefields with trebuchets flinging flaming meringue and lady-in-waiting massive conical hats veiled with edible sugar sculpture. But why re-invent the wheel? Now I have old cookbooks and magazines to sift through!
:cheerleader:
Okay, that quote from Zak's blog is fucking brilliant. And my next year's GaryCon OD&D game is DEFINITELY going to involve the Skull Fortress of the Hate Toad!!!!
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;847627"Yeah, they all want to express their individuality in exactly the same way." -- my dad, 1967.
That which is old is new again.
And just like punks and goths when I was a teen.
Newsflash: Young people are deeply insecure and undergoing an identity crisis.
That fact that people in their teens and early 20s are ridiculous and infuriating to their elders means things are moving along pretty much like they always have.
Quote from: Baulderstone;847632And just like punks and goths when I was a teen.
Newsflash: Young people are deeply insecure and undergoing an identity crisis.
That fact that people in their teens and early 20s are ridiculous and infuriating to their elders means things are moving along pretty much like they always have.
I remember my late mom bitching about "We Will Rock You" by Queen.
I thought, but didn't say, "Well, Ma, Freddie and the lads would be really disappointed if you liked this song."
I generally like hipsters.
You'd think LA would be full of them, but its just one subculture among a thousand micro-niches.
I don't get the "Ironic Enjoyment" thing, though.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;847613Isn't Dungeon World the officially approved hipster D&D?
Only in the ironic sense.
More things change, more they stay the same, huhn?
Quote from: Baulderstone;847632And just like punks and goths when I was a teen.
Newsflash: Young people are deeply insecure and undergoing an identity crisis.
That fact that people in their teens and early 20s are ridiculous and infuriating to their elders means things are moving along pretty much like they always have.
What confuses me about the hipster thing is I woke up one day and it was clear everyone in the world had agreed hipsters were to be hated. It took me a while to get what a hipster was. I don't really get the hate. I can certainly see the silliness of some of it. The one true hipster I worked with infuriated me with his competitive air guitar at times, but otherwise he was just a typical young person. I don't know, the idea that someone, somewhere is smugly enjoying a microbrew I'll never have the taste buds to appreciate isn't worth getting upset over. In the grand scheme, it's pretty harmless.
I've come to think there are three kinds of hipsters, at least here in Europe/Germany:
The Full Blown Stereotype: The memetic hipster, the kind of person people imagine when the word is said, an almost mystical creature many may never have witnessed in the flesh. They crowd around their hotspots, but are almost impossible to find elsewhere. Berlin is a major nest, so I see droves of cliche hipsters whenever I visit that city. Never knew one personally, but that may be because you stop perceiving people as stereotypical once you know them well.
The Fashion Hipster: This person wears and consumes hipster associated stuff because it is a thing to do, but never goes the whole mile, noticeable for a few stereotypical accessories, most prominently the standard package thick glasses. These are careful never to stray to far from the mainstream, for example, you won't find them bearing obvious hipster tattoos, because they are still worried about their job prospects. They have become rarer has the big hipster backlash erupted and mainstream fashion moved on, but far from extinct. I find that the other two types tend to be of an age between 25 and 35, while fashion hipsters are often younger or older.
The Proto Hipster: People that conform to parts of the stereotype, but reject or are naturally apart from other parts of it. They where often that way before hipsters became a thing, though it often became more pronounced when the term and stereotype became widely known, if only because more avenues to indulge themselves came up.
I know a lot of these and do include myself in this group. Before the rampant hipster hype and rabid ongoing hipster backlash, we'd even self identify as hipsters on occasion. This is a very wide and diverse group, but every proto hipster will have some things they are snobbish about, a few things they liked "before they where a thing", some area of taste where they hunt for cool new bands/artists/products they will invariably become less enchanted with when those grow popular and often some parallels in their style to the stereotype.
I've known this group to launch some of the most vicious attacks on hipsters, but also suspect many would be much closer to the stereotype if something didn't hold them back. Awareness and rejection of the stereotype is one of these causes, while another is simply the high cost of the hipster lifestyle in both time and money.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;847651What confuses me about the hipster thing is I woke up one day and it was clear everyone in the world had agreed hipsters were to be hated. It took me a while to get what a hipster was. I don't really get the hate. I can certainly see the silliness of some of it. The one true hipster I worked with infuriated me with his competitive air guitar at times, but otherwise he was just a typical young person. I don't know, the idea that someone, somewhere is smugly enjoying a microbrew I'll never have the taste buds to appreciate isn't worth getting upset over. In the grand scheme, it's pretty harmless.
It appears to me that many hipsters and proto hipsters hate on hipsters.
Others have said that being a hipster it is very much about individualism. When the hipster hype started, people that wanted to be a lot of things, but not part of a group or trend, where confronted with the fact that they where part of a trend. So everyone pounced on the "other hipster" as a "fake" that ruined being special for everyone.
That and all the people that knew one snob to many now had an image to focus their hate on.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;847651What confuses me about the hipster thing is I woke up one day and it was clear everyone in the world had agreed hipsters were to be hated. It took me a while to get what a hipster was. I don't really get the hate. I can certainly see the silliness of some of it. The one true hipster I worked with infuriated me with his competitive air guitar at times, but otherwise he was just a typical young person. I don't know, the idea that someone, somewhere is smugly enjoying a microbrew I'll never have the taste buds to appreciate isn't worth getting upset over. In the grand scheme, it's pretty harmless.
Pretty much. I'm sure to objective outsiders, there is no discernible difference in ridiculousness between hipsters arguing over their favorite bands and gamers arguing over their favorite edition of an RPG.
Quote from: Gold Roger;847671It appears to me that many hipsters and proto hipsters hate on hipsters.
Others have said that being a hipster it is very much about individualism. When the hipster hype started, people that wanted to be a lot of things, but not part of a group or trend, where confronted with the fact that they where part of a trend. So everyone pounced on the "other hipster" as a "fake" that ruined being special for everyone.
That and all the people that knew one snob to many now had an image to focus their hate on.
To continue my gaming analogy, see any discussion of "fake geeks".
Quote from: Gold Roger;847671It appears to me that many hipsters and proto hipsters hate on hipsters.
Others have said that being a hipster it is very much about individualism. When the hipster hype started, people that wanted to be a lot of things, but not part of a group or trend, where confronted with the fact that they where part of a trend. So everyone pounced on the "other hipster" as a "fake" that ruined being special for everyone.
That and all the people that knew one snob to many now had an image to focus their hate on.
I've seen soda adds mocking hipsters, so I think it is well past it being an internal thing amongst different strains of hipster. I hear complaints about hipsters on TV, radio, etc. seems fairly widespread.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;847674I've seen soda adds mocking hipsters, so I think it is well past it being an internal thing amongst different strains of hipster. I hear complaints about hipsters on TV, radio, etc. seems fairly widespread.
I guess once mocking hipsters became widespread via the internet, everyone sort of jumped on bandwagon. People like mocking minorities and hipsters are (stereotypically) white, educated, from socially and financially secure backgrounds and most mocking depictions will target the male ones. Add that they are odd looking and supposedly arrogant and you have a perfectly safe acceptable target.
I don't know how many people actually approve of mocking hipsters specifically, but very few are actually offended by mocking them.
Quote from: Gold Roger;847681I guess once mocking hipsters became widespread via the internet, everyone sort of jumped on bandwagon. People like mocking minorities and hipsters are (stereotypically) white, educated, from socially and financially secure backgrounds and most mocking depictions will target the male ones. Add that they are odd looking and supposedly arrogant and you have a perfectly safe acceptable target.
I don't know how many people actually approve of mocking hipsters specifically, but very few are actually offended by mocking them.
I don't want to come off as someone who gets ruffled by some barbed humor. That isn't my point. I am not offended by the mocking of hipsters, anymore than mocking goths, dude bros, gamers, punks, etc. I just see it as a sign that awareness of them as a group is strangely ubiquitous. These are all things that have their ridiculous elements that are perfect fodder for comedy. It would be a boring world if we didn't make fun of these kinds of differences. Skinny jeans and lattes are funny. Competitive Air Guitar? That is begging to be made fun of. It is the hate and disdain underlying some of the hipster commentary I don't understand.
Trevor, the methhead murderhobo from GTA V is the proto-hipster! :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlzZhGr8G9w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlzZhGr8G9w)
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;847683I don't want to come off as someone who gets ruffled by some barbed humor. That isn't my point. I am not offended by the mocking of hipsters, anymore than mocking goths, dude bros, gamers, punks, etc. I just see it as a sign that awareness of them as a group is strangely ubiquitous. These are all things that have their ridiculous elements that are perfect fodder for comedy. It would be a boring world if we didn't make fun of these kinds of differences. Skinny jeans and lattes are funny. Competitive Air Guitar? That is begging to be made fun of. It is the hate and disdain underlying some of the hipster commentary I don't understand.
Well, I think some of what I've said has just as much bearing on that as well. In my experience, people are just as happy to find an easy target for their disdain and hate, as they are to find one for mockery.
Just taking a wild stab at further causes, I'd say it is a combination of being privileged (as noted, it is no cheap lifestyle) and being perceived as "useless" and "non-productive".
One thing I've seen hipsters heavily associated with is gentrification. Taking Berlin as an example, again, it is a hotspot of so called hipsters, meanwhile in Berlin rent and real estate has taken a massive price hike in recent years, especially in some previously poor inner city areas.
This is more of a correlation, than a causative connection.
An awful lot of more traditional young professionals, investors of all kinds and plain very rich internationals ,looking to live or at least have a residence in the place to be, have been flocking there as well. However, even though they are a small demographic and have an all in all negligible economic influence, the hipsters are highly visible (apart from the eccentric styling, it is a lifestyle that has you out being seen, visiting cafes, shops, events, etc), so people will channel their frustration at the irritating, but ultimately non threatening bohemians, rather than, say, those young families or the investor buying entire blocks of affordable housing to turn into tourist apartments and condos.
Add in the perceived hypocrisy of rejecting more traditional capitalistic lifestyles while still leading an essentially consumerist existence and a healthy dose of anti intellectualism and I feel we have classical scapegoat scenario, whether the haters issue is with rising living costs or a perception of a "lazy youth".
Quote from: Baulderstone;847553Not seeing it. As RPGs go, its actually too big to be hip. It made a bundle on Kickstarter. You used to be able to buy it at Borders. There are plenty of obscure new indie games or obscure out-of-print ones out there that can kill it on hipster cred. It's also too old to be cool while being new to be retro. It's a lingering artifact from when Gen X was still cool.
At the risk of over explaining a joke, the Exalted fanbase (the vocal aspects of it anyway) share several elements with the hipster crowd: They're mostly "privileged" sorts with an overinflated snobbish opinion of their own tastes and what they prefer with varying degrees of sneering contempt for the "common" (a good Exalted thread can't pass with several turds tossed at D and D,), a substantial overlap with SJW/Slacktivist crowd and a willingness even eagerness to pour money into their "superior" choices. The Exalted kick starter was massively successful in large part because of peoole making 3 even 4 digit donations.
For an rpg.
An rpg thats not that different from any other. Not even for the rpg for a fancy version of the rpg and extras.
More money than sense has been an attribute "hipsters" have demonstrated, IME.
Like Hipsters paying out the nose for obscure microbrews and gourmet coffee that pretty tastes the same as the common alternative but lets them feel superior. Even to the extent their "small trendy thing" become successful and popular. Though I can't Exalted fanbase abandoning it if it become "too popular" but...
And for all the discussion and flow about online, most gamers I've met IRL and many online have not heard of it or only vague notion of what it is. Hell, there were post as recent as last year on
rpg.net asking what it was all about. Its a spiritual relative of White Wolf's WoD games which thrived on the being "hip alternative" even when they were wildly popular. One of the most frequent barbs I've seen tossed at that Exalted is D and D for people that think they're too good for D and D.
But this is one, a quip and two opinion. YMMV, IMHO, etc etc. :)
Quote from: Nexus;847777But this is one, a quip and two opinion. YMMV, IMHO, etc etc. :)
Fair enough. I'm not about to get into an argument about Exalted. :)
I don't get the hate on lattes. It's steamed milk in espresso.
As for Exalted, please don't let the RPGnet dumbasses ruin a fun and interesting RPG for you.
Here's a PDF of the free Intro Starter book.
http://kschnee.xepher.net/rpg/exalted/Exalted%20Starter%20Kit.pdf
The Quickstart has enough goodies for me to have run two mini-campaigns and at least a dozen one-shot events.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;847651smugly enjoying a microbrew I'll never have the taste buds to appreciate
So wait, are hipsters the guys that turned IPA from "pale ale with a heavy malt body and some extra hops" into "so many alpha acid units that it tastes like the aftertaste of puke"?
Because seriously, fuck those guys.
Hippies, Hip Hop, hipsters, too many hops...I don't understand what all this hippity hop is about but I know that whatever it is, I'm agin it. And that darn Elvis and his swayin' hips started it.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;847815So wait, are hipsters the guys that turned IPA from "pale ale with a heavy malt body and some extra hops" into "so many alpha acid units that it tastes like the aftertaste of puke"?
Because seriously, fuck those guys.
I don't know. I was never a big IPA drinker.
Quote from: Baulderstone;847672Pretty much. I'm sure to objective outsiders, there is no discernible difference in ridiculousness between hipsters arguing over their favorite bands and gamers arguing over their favorite edition of an RPG.
DnD fans argue about the edition of the game they like, and continue to do so for a long period of time because they like the game they are arguing about.
Hipsters argue about their "favorite" bands to one up each other on how in the know they are about bands, but drop any band as soon as they become popular. It's like the opposite of expressing excitement about popular songs, their hipsterism is based on showing off enjoyment of obscurity, not actually enjoying anything.
Yeah, it expanded from music to shitty beer and other attempts to know about things other people aren't aware of, because being hip and knowing stuff others don't is their entire identity.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;847651What confuses me about the hipster thing is I woke up one day and it was clear everyone in the world had agreed hipsters were to be hated. It took me a while to get what a hipster was. I don't really get the hate. I can certainly see the silliness of some of it.
Yeah, same here. Maybe because I don't see many of them around:).
Anyhow, I'm now wondering whether D&D would be Hipster if you get 100 XP per new type of microbrew you taste;).
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;847651What confuses me about the hipster thing is I woke up one day and it was clear everyone in the world had agreed hipsters were to be hated.
Quotejust a typical young person.
This covers it rather well. They're young enough to think their opinions matter while not having a clue what they're talking about. They can be annoying, but typically they're just kids, with all the problems that entails.
It's the folks like this in their 30s that bug me. At that point it's accomplish something or shut the hell up. Which is the line of thought that moved me from RPG.net to here, figure I'll listen to the comments of people who actually make and play games than the ones who simply like to hear their own voice.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;847651What confuses me about the hipster thing is I woke up one day and it was clear everyone in the world had agreed hipsters were to be hated. It took me a while to get what a hipster was. I don't really get the hate. I can certainly see the silliness of some of it. The one true hipster I worked with infuriated me with his competitive air guitar at times, but otherwise he was just a typical young person. I don't know, the idea that someone, somewhere is smugly enjoying a microbrew I'll never have the taste buds to appreciate isn't worth getting upset over. In the grand scheme, it's pretty harmless.
I admit I enjoy poking fun at them I don't hate hipsters and I enjoy poking fun at geeks too so I don't feel like too much of a hypocrite. :)
Hipsters do their thing and like any subculture there are allot of decent folks that fall under the label or close to it and some assholes. but unfortunately its usually the assholes that are most memorable.
Quote from: Nexus;847858I admit I enjoy poking fun at them I don't hate hipsters and I enjoy poking fun at geeks too so I don't feel like too much of a hypocrite. :)
Hipsters do their thing and like any subculture there allot of decent folks that fall under the label or close to it and some assholes. but unfortunately its usually the assholes that are most memorable.
Poking fun I get. That doesn't bother me at all. I am just baffled by some of the more intense rage I have seen directed toward hipsters.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;847859Poking fun I get. That doesn't bother me at all. I am just baffled by some of the more intense rage I have seen directed toward hipsters.
Yeah, I can understand that. I don't get the kneejerk rage at some other groups too like Furries.
I poke fun at hipsters but I don't dislike them.
Hipster barkeeps = best barkeeps.
Quote from: hexgrid;847251The OSR is the most hipster branch of D&D.
You know, it's hard to argue against that. Much as it pains me.
Quote from: RPGPundit;848522You know, it's hard to argue against that. Much as it pains me.
The pipe also fits with the hipster vibe. Face it, you are a hipster. ;)
Quote from: RPGPundit;848522You know, it's hard to argue against that. Much as it pains me.
See that, dudes!?
IT IS KNOWN, PUNDEESI. :pundit:
Quote from: Bren;848580The pipe also fits with the hipster vibe. Face it, you are a hipster. ;)
True dat. :D
Does my constant indecisiveness about running European fantasy because it's been "done to death" make me the most pathetic sort of gaming hipster?
Shit, it totally does, doesn't it?
I'm halfway to being this guy:
http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=840537&postcount=91
Just because you are bored with something and don't want to run it doesn't make you any kind of hipster.
And you are not in anyway close to halfway to that guy. Now that was pathetic.:jaw-dropping:
I'll amend my earlier statement by saying that the OSR is the 'most' hipster of all the D&D fandoms, but it's still far from that in comparison to all the various hipster non-D&D RPG fandoms.
Quote from: SionEwig;848718Just because you are bored with something and don't want to run it doesn't make you any kind of hipster.
Oh no, you misunderstand, my actual thought process typically looks something like this:
Me: Oh wow, this old 2nd edition D&D guide on running a campaign in Celtic Gaul is kinda awesome! I'd love to try running a game like that.
*Then I'm reminded in the course of the day that there's countless video games/RPGs/books built on Euro-themed fantasy and Celtic themes are relatively common.*
Me: Oh... I guess this stuff is overexposed and too popular. I should really do something more original.
*Initial excitement dims*
Curiously, I think Vanilla Middle-European plus Elves Dwarfs and Orcs Fantasy is very rare!
Almost anything is a twist to that. At least most GMs seem to want desperately to "stay away from Cormyr" and instead "go to the North and the Savage Frontier!".
The closest Gygax ever came was on the COVER of the Greyhawk boxed set. The interiour is genius, but more or less post-apoc.
Boom-Chikka-Boom Middle European Fantasy is elusive in ACUTAL PLAY.
Quote from: Settembrini;848809Curiously, I think Vanilla Middle-European plus Elves Dwarfs and Orcs Fantasy is very rare!
Almost anything is a twist to that. At least most GMs seem to want desperately to "stay away from Cormyr" and instead "go to the North and the Savage Frontier!".
The closest Gygax ever came was on the COVER of the Greyhawk boxed set. The interiour is genius, but more or less post-apoc.
Boom-Chikka-Boom Middle European Fantasy is elusive in ACUTAL PLAY.
What an intriguing idea. :D I know this can only be anecdotal, but I'd like to ask anyone else reading this thread if this matches their general experience; do twists outnumber straight deliveries?
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;848820What an intriguing idea. :D I know this can only be anecdotal, but I'd like to ask anyone else reading this thread if this matches their general experience; do twists outnumber straight deliveries?
I think "with a twist" has become the expectation these days. It wouldn't surprise me.
I do recall back when Paizo was doing dungeon, one of my frustrations at the time was not enough vanilla-fantasy adventures, because their policy at the time requested people avoid cliches, encouraged inverting tropes, etc. None of these guidelines are bad, but what I found as a GM at the time, was I often needed cliche filler adventures. I was basically looking for solid old standbys like go kill the dragon and take its gold and anything that was unusual or out of the box I would just make myself anyways.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;848820What an intriguing idea. :D I know this can only be anecdotal, but I'd like to ask anyone else reading this thread if this matches their general experience; do twists outnumber straight deliveries?
You know... I've never actually had a Faux Medieval Europe With Dwarves and Elves (and other races) in my games. Ever.
I need to do something to rectify this oversight.
I don't know what the OSR does; I've never been part of "the OSR" but when it comes to AD&D and OD&D I try to be as anti-hipster as I can. I don't want it to have been "Cool before you heard about it" - I want everyone I know to play and love 1e AD&D. I don't want it to be some cliquish cultish thing that only a select few know about...like, holy shit you've never heard Led Zeppelin before? Man, come on let's listen! This is fantastic! etc.
Fuck hipsterdom. And if the OSR is hipsterdom, well, fuck the OSR too.
I've been doing Faux Early Medieval Europe with fantasy races, but elves and dwarves are not player available and are essentially superstition. Goblins, orcs, and kobolds are quite real however, and way more socially integrated than mere XP farms. Then I threw a gay food fantasia on top.
My players turned it grimdark.
Quote from: Bren;848580The pipe also fits with the hipster vibe. Face it, you are a hipster. ;)
True, but I was smoking pipes since before it was cool.
Quote from: RPGPundit;849145True, but I was smoking pipes since before it was cool.
No one believes you're that old
Quote from: TristramEvans;849154No one believes you're that old
Exactly.
:p
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/Raleigh's_first_pipe_in_England.jpeg/640px-Raleigh's_first_pipe_in_England.jpeg)
Quote from: RPGPundit;849145True, but I was smoking pipes since before it was cool.
I was saying "I did this before it was cool" before it was cool.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;849297I was saying "I did this before it was cool" before it was cool.
You predate just about everything, including the concept of 'cool', Old One. :)
Quote from: TristramEvans;849154No one believes you're that old
I heard Rpgpundit had homeroom with Methuselah.
Quote from: Nexus;849310I heard Rpgpundit had homeroom with Methuselah.
I heard that RPGPundit was a consultant on the 10 Commandments, but disavowed the final draft.
But I thought Pundit doesn't like Vampire the Masquearade? Is it too close to home? Rötschreck enducing bad memories of dance and chamber music class?
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;848820What an intriguing idea. :D I know this can only be anecdotal, but I'd like to ask anyone else reading this thread if this matches their general experience; do twists outnumber straight deliveries?
Anyone who doesn't spend time generating a world and just plays D&D out of the box is playing generic European faux medieval/ren fair D&D
Quote from: jibbajibba;849398Anyone who doesn't spend time generating a world and just plays D&D out of the box is playing generic European faux medieval/ren fair D&D
I would argue they aren't, simply because there are too many setting assumptions, not to mention that most people want avoid the 'cliches' because they assume everyone ELSE uses them.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;849920I would argue they aren't, simply because there are too many setting assumptions, not to mention that most people want avoid the 'cliches' because they assume everyone ELSE uses them.
I agree that they aren't as well. Playing D&D out of the box with no world-building gives you a straight dungeon crawl gold rush campaign that I can't really line up with anything medieval, of either the historical or ren fair variety. D&D is just its own weird thing. It takes effort to make it medieval.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;849920I would argue they aren't, simply because there are too many setting assumptions, not to mention that most people want avoid the 'cliches' because they assume everyone ELSE uses them.
Quote from: BaulderstoneIt takes effort to make it medieval.
Almost makes you feel a perverse desire to run it straight so that
someone is doing it, damn it! :p
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;850026Almost makes you feel a perverse desire to run it straight so that someone is doing it, damn it! :p
As I pointed out in another thread, there was a Playstation 3 game, called Dragon's Dogma felt so much more D&D than anything I had ever run or played.
It had a castle town (as the main hub) it's 'dungeons' that I can remember involved an old mine, at least three full on keeps, some of which were ruins, you fought Goblins, Harpies, wolves, bandits and then monsters like Griffons, Ogre like creatures and Cyclops. The main bad guy was a full on, oh my Gods, it's a FREAKING 747 sized DRAGON. It had some politics, an unfortunately muddled story, but you can fill in your own blanks (kinda like D&D, ne?) The threat felt big and world shaking, but at the end of the day, it only affected ONE tiny Dukedom in potentially the entire world.
It FELT medieval, without it being obviously based on any European analog, past some fantasy England or France. And the DLC had a multi-layer dungeon which was very D&D too.
...I miss my PS3...
And that's a high fantasy setting I want to run.
Quote from: TristramEvans;849154No one believes you're that old
Before it once again fell into fashion, then.
Quote from: Haffrung;847108Then I went to the Chicago. The trendy, hipster part of Chicago. And I was surrounded by thousands of them. And far, far more hipster than the people in the video. These were pure strain hipsters in their core habitat. You couldn't swing a stick without knocking four bearded, neck-tatooed, and spectacled dudes off their fixed-gear bikes and into organic pizzerias that had 15 brands of pale ale on tap. The stereotypes were surpassed beyond all belief.
Sounds like North London. I play an occasional game in Camden, hipster central. It's scary up there. :eek:
Quote from: Haffrung;847204The true hipster would champion Traveller or Empire of the Petal Throne. Maybe Metamorphosis Alpha. Something old, neglected, and 'authentic'. Or they'd go full ironic and play Dragonlance era D&D.
IME the most hipster-attractant RPG is probably Lamentations of the Flame Princess, though I'm in an occasional 5e game in Camden with a couple somewhat hipstery fellows, they have the groomed facial hair.
BTW I don't think the RPGnet lot are hipstery at all, quite the reverse. SJWs and hipsters really don't mix, SJWs tend to strongly dislike hipsters' ironic detachment. From what I can tell, hipsters are quite likely to - ironically - vote Conservative!
Quote from: RPGPundit;850961Before it once again fell into fashion, then.
I don't think that actually ever happened. At least not in North America.
Maybe you just....moved to Uruguay?
Quote from: The Ent;847220I'm kinda-sorta Hipster-y in some ways. Some friends and co-workers think so anyways. Not a compliment allthough said friends/co-workers Are also Hipster-y in some ways. :idunno:
Not style vise though unless Hawaii shirts and sideburns become Hipster-y. :D
Why does the thread title go, "Hipster/TBP"? :confused:
I don't see TBP as very Hipster-y at all. Maybe it was a decade or so ago (actually I guess it kinda was, really, a decade or so ago. Allthough in a geeky way) these days it's really quite lowbrow* (ironically, what with the widespread and sometimes virulent classism against the Working Class there) and that doesn't mix well with hipsterism, and a frequent lack of irony wich really doesn't mix well with hipsterism. Hipsterism and slacktivism can mix - see: Britta in Community - but not in this case IMO.
*=note the popularity of metal, especially Viking Metal, Manowar style metal, symphonic stuff with fantasy lyrics, Sabaton, etc.
(For the record I'm kinda lowbrow behaviour vise but everyone knows it's just a thing I do so I'm still Hipster-y :D)
Main common point between hipsters and TBP is that Pundit hates both. :pundit:
Sure lots of Tangencites sport murderhobo beards but beards Are basically mainstream now, real hipsters wearing moustaches. Hm, that makes Pundit Hipster-y :rotfl:
I'd say the OSR is roleplayerdom's most Hipster-y thing (yes, moreso than indie storygames :p)
Agree on all points - OSR definitely attracts the hipsters; RPGnet, its politics and its darlings are about as un-hipstery as you can get.
I guess that another valid question would be: "is 4th edition a hipster game?" 'Cause just about every thread on TBP about D&D eventually becomes about how 4th is the best for everything.
Quote from: Necrozius;851063I guess that another valid question would be: "is 4th edition a hipster game?" 'Cause just about every thread on TBP about D&D eventually becomes about how 4th is the best for everything.
I'd say definitely not. Hipsters tend to go for Eurogames, IME they also play Munchkin. They like OSR which is rules-light and well suited to a mood of ironic detachment, they don't like mechanically complex stuff like 3e/PF or 4e, and incidentally they don't seem to like Indie Hippy Forgey Storygames either.
Quote from: S'mon;851084I'd say definitely not. Hipsters tend to go for Eurogames, IME they also play Munchkin. They like OSR which is rules-light and well suited to a mood of ironic detachment, they don't like mechanically complex stuff like 3e/PF or 4e, and incidentally they don't seem to like Indie Hippy Forgey Storygames either.
Given Gronan's tales of the original D&D games, ironic detachment seems like a natural fit for the OSR. :) 2E and 4E are too straightforwardly heroic.
(There may be some overlap between 4E fans and SJWs, but that's a group even less identifiable with games and play styles.)
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;851086Given Gronan's tales of the original D&D games, ironic detachment seems like a natural fit for the OSR. :) 2E and 4E are too straightforwardly heroic.
(There may be some overlap between 4E fans and SJWs, but that's a group even less identifiable with games and play styles.)
Agree - grognards & hipsters have this like of ironic detachment in common. This results in some hipstery grognard types like noisms (Monsters & Manuals (http://monstersandmanuals.blogspot.co.uk/)) who arguably fit both categories. :D
None of my 4e group are SJWs, but yes there is some overlap, most obviously on rpgnet. I guess 4e & SJWs both Take Everything
Very Seriously.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;851086Given Gronan's tales of the original D&D games, ironic detachment seems like a natural fit for the OSR. :) 2E and 4E are too straightforwardly heroic.
Incorrect. Irony was never part of original D&D. Detachment was detachment in the same sense as in a wargame; they are units, you will lose some.
Silly, yes. Ironic, no.
That was entertaining. I wasn't loling but the part about going to Starbucks to heal was pretty good.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;851189Incorrect. Irony was never part of original D&D. Detachment was detachment in the same sense as in a wargame; they are units, you will lose some.
Silly, yes. Ironic, no.
Fair enough. If I had some clear idea of what contemporary irony
is, I might be able to better tell the difference. :)
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;851193Fair enough. If I had some clear idea of what contemporary irony is, I might be able to better tell the difference. :)
I feel your pain. Nowadays, what passes for irony just seems like ennui to me.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;851193Fair enough. If I had some clear idea of what contemporary irony is, I might be able to better tell the difference. :)
Now that's ironic.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;851189Incorrect. Irony was never part of original D&D. Detachment was detachment in the same sense as in a wargame; they are units, you will lose some.
Silly, yes. Ironic, no.
Yeah, I think the whole doing something with ironic detachment thing is about playing something or watching something not because you enjoy it but almost as a kind of commentary. It is like people who watch Rocky IV even though they hate the Rocky series, or folks who listen to 80s music because they think it is so ridiculous and terrible. They dislike these things and that seems to be the source of the amusement. That is very different from playing a game and not getting pissed that you died five times. You might be fully invested in the experience, but you have enough detachment from your character that you are are unaffected by TPKs and similar outcomes.
Quote from: ChrisGunter;851192That was entertaining. I wasn't loling but the part about going to Starbucks to heal was pretty good.
Welcome to the site. Watch out, it is not a 'safe space'. ;)
Quote from: Christopher Brady;851224Now that's ironic.
A little too ironic... don't you think?
IT'S LIKE RAAAAAIN.... ON YOUR WEDDING DAY...
I play at a local gaming store in Williamsburg Brooklyn, which is basically Hipster Jerusalem, and 5E is really popular. The place is jam packed full of people playing. Whether or not those people are "hipsters" I'll leave to various definitions, but they seem to be a pretty even spread of the local demographics and a diverse crowd.
I myself live in Bed Stuy.
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;851277I play at a local gaming store in Williamsburg Brooklyn...
Which one?
Quote from: S'mon;851102Agree - grognards & hipsters have this like of ironic detachment in common. This results in some hipstery grognard types like noisms (Monsters & Manuals (http://monstersandmanuals.blogspot.co.uk/)) who arguably fit both categories. :D
None of my 4e group are SJWs, but yes there is some overlap, most obviously on rpgnet. I guess 4e & SJWs both Take Everything Very Seriously.
I'll have "Hipstery Grognard" put on my grave stone.
Quote from: noisms;851954I'll have "Hipstery Grognard" put on my grave stone.
I have a beard, but not a neck beard
Also Sprach Der HipsterGrog.
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;851277I play at a local gaming store in Williamsburg Brooklyn, which is basically Hipster Jerusalem, and 5E is really popular. The place is jam packed full of people playing. Whether or not those people are "hipsters" I'll leave to various definitions, but they seem to be a pretty even spread of the local demographics and a diverse crowd.
I myself live in Bed Stuy.
Glad we finally have someone who has seen some actual gaming hipsters, so we might know what some of them actually do play. Felt a little too much like Pooh and Tigger contemplating what a Heffalumps looked like.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;848775Oh no, you misunderstand, my actual thought process typically looks something like this:
Me: Oh wow, this old 2nd edition D&D guide on running a campaign in Celtic Gaul is kinda awesome! I'd love to try running a game like that.
*Then I'm reminded in the course of the day that there's countless video games/RPGs/books built on Euro-themed fantasy and Celtic themes are relatively common.*
Me: Oh... I guess this stuff is overexposed and too popular. I should really do something more original.
*Initial excitement dims*
A real hipster would then proclaim his game is a precise recreation of the Táin Bó Flidhais and will require a precise verbal understanding of the language.*
*there's an obscure and probably hipsterish joke here too
Quote from: S'mon;851084I'd say definitely not. Hipsters tend to go for Eurogames, IME they also play Munchkin. They like OSR which is rules-light and well suited to a mood of ironic detachment, they don't like mechanically complex stuff like 3e/PF or 4e, and incidentally they don't seem to like Indie Hippy Forgey Storygames either.
I always thought that FATE was pretty hipstery, mostly because the hipsters I know locally all seem to delight in it (while tearing down the classics).
EDIT: on second thought, I might be confusing my SJWs with my hipsters. Maybe the SJWs are the ones who prefer FATE because it's touchy-feely and everyone gets to win and contribute. The OSR/Hipster analogy works well, but I suspect only really succeeds if you like it ironically and also never touched the original.
Quote from: camazotz;852297EDIT: on second thought, I might be confusing my SJWs with my hipsters.
I'm not sure why people do this. SJWs tend to be fat pallid creatures Taking Everything Very Seriously. Hipsters are skinny and Never Take Anything Seriously. Hipsters are cool, SJWS are definitely un-cool.
In London SJWs generally work in the public sector in administrative roles, while hipsters work for Internet start ups, in coffee shops, organic cafes, and other non-manual-labour private sector fields. The two groups rarely interact, SJWs would like to reprogramme hipsters to make them SJWs but hipsters will avoid SJWs and their concerns.
I guess in the US hipsters will generally vote Democrat if they bother to vote, but in the UK hipsters are happy to vote for soft-right Conservatives like London mayor Boris Johnson and (I suspect) Zac Goldsmith. SJWS of course always vote Left.
Quote from: camazotz;852295*there's an obscure and probably hipsterish joke here too
What do you mean? I got the language directly from this really scruffy, bearded guy who told me he is an actual druid and is over a thousand years old. And that he was known as Merlin. Boy was he happy to finally get out of that cave.
Rawma, this is humor. Pay no attention.
Quote from: S'mon;852363I'm not sure why people do this. SJWs tend to be fat pallid creatures Taking Everything Very Seriously. Hipsters are skinny and Never Take Anything Seriously. Hipsters are cool, SJWS are definitely un-cool.
In London SJWs generally work in the public sector in administrative roles, while hipsters work for Internet start ups, in coffee shops, organic cafes, and other non-manual-labour private sector fields. The two groups rarely interact, SJWs would like to reprogramme hipsters to make them SJWs but hipsters will avoid SJWs and their concerns.
I guess in the US hipsters will generally vote Democrat if they bother to vote, but in the UK hipsters are happy to vote for soft-right Conservatives like London mayor Boris Johnson and (I suspect) Zac Goldsmith. SJWS of course always vote Left.
Interesting. I'll have to pass this along to the gun-totin', redneck, inbred, Tea Party salutin', war mongerin', big gass guzzlin' truck drivin', Trump-dick-sucking, Fox-News-Watchin', racist, fat-ass, white bread, tough-talkin'-but-actually-a-pussy Conservatives in my neck of the woods. They been asking for some examples of "sweeping generalization." I think between the two of us, we have it somewhat covered. :-)
Quote from: cranebump;852537Interesting. I'll have to pass this along to the gun-totin', redneck, inbred, Tea Party salutin', war mongerin', big gass guzzlin' truck drivin', Trump-dick-sucking, Fox-News-Watchin', racist, fat-ass, white bread, tough-talkin'-but-actually-a-pussy Conservatives in my neck of the woods. They been asking for some examples of "sweeping generalization." I think between the two of us, we have it somewhat covered. :-)
He's British, not a 'Murican. The only parts of that spiel that are likely to resonate for him are the words "inbred", "Tea", which should be spelled without a capital-T, the misspelled hyphenate "war-mongerin", "white bread", which is part of a full-English, and "woods". Also in Britain, Conservative is spelled T-o-r-y. :p
Quote from: Bren;852546He's British, not a 'Murican. The only parts of that spiel that are likely to resonate for him are the words "inbred", "Tea", which should be spelled without a capital-T, the misspelled hyphenate "war-mongerin", "white bread", which is part of a full-English, and "woods". Also in Britain, Conservative is spelled T-o-r-y. :p
Goddamnit! I wasted all that (stereo) typing!:-)
Quote from: S'mon;852363I'm not sure why people do this. SJWs tend to be fat pallid creatures Taking Everything Very Seriously. Hipsters are skinny and Never Take Anything Seriously. Hipsters are cool, SJWS are definitely un-cool.
In London SJWs generally work in the public sector in administrative roles, while hipsters work for Internet start ups, in coffee shops, organic cafes, and other non-manual-labour private sector fields. The two groups rarely interact, SJWs would like to reprogramme hipsters to make them SJWs but hipsters will avoid SJWs and their concerns.
I guess in the US hipsters will generally vote Democrat if they bother to vote, but in the UK hipsters are happy to vote for soft-right Conservatives like London mayor Boris Johnson and (I suspect) Zac Goldsmith. SJWS of course always vote Left.
Good points. Another thing to keep in mind is that SJWs want everyone to be exactly like them. They are forcefully evangelical.
Hipsters want to be cooler than everyone else. They need to stay one step ahead of the mainstream, so they idea of actively trying to make everyone act the same as them is an anathema.
That's OK. I'm sure wants to say thank you to 'Murica for saving his country's butt back in double you, double you, eye, eye.
Don't hate him because he has better beer than we do. He also lives in the place that gave the world One Direction. So really he deserves our pity.
Quote from: cranebump;852550Goddamnit! I wasted all that (stereo) typing!:-)
Stereo typing? You mean like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8qgehH3kEQ)?
Quote from: DavetheLost;852559That's OK. I'm sure wants to say thank you to 'Murica for saving his country's butt back in double you, double you, eye, eye.
Usually that is said, "What took you so long?"
Touche
Quote from: cranebump;852537Interesting. I'll have to pass this along to the gun-totin', redneck, inbred, Tea Party salutin', war mongerin', big gass guzzlin' truck drivin', Trump-dick-sucking, Fox-News-Watchin', racist, fat-ass, white bread, tough-talkin'-but-actually-a-pussy Conservatives in my neck of the woods. They been asking for some examples of "sweeping generalization." I think between the two of us, we have it somewhat covered. :-)
You object to generalisations? Ignorance is Strength, Comrade! :p
Quote from: Bren;852546He's British, not a 'Murican. The only parts of that spiel that are likely to resonate for him are the words "inbred", "Tea", which should be spelled without a capital-T, the misspelled hyphenate "war-mongerin", "white bread", which is part of a full-English, and "woods". Also in Britain, Conservative is spelled T-o-r-y. :p
My ex & her family are Tennesseans so I'm well familiar with redneck stereotypes.
Quote from: Baulderstone;852558Good points. Another thing to keep in mind is that SJWs want everyone to be exactly like them. They are forcefully evangelical.
Hipsters want to be cooler than everyone else. They need to stay one step ahead of the mainstream, so they idea of actively trying to make everyone act the same as them is an anathema.
Yup. To me they seem about as different as can be.
Quote from: Baulderstone;852560Stereo typing? You mean like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8qgehH3kEQ)?
That was a good laugh, thank you.
Quote from: Bren;852546He's British, not a 'Murican.
You know, gun to my head I'd prefer "Murican" to "USian".
Quote from: Nexus;852754You know, gun to my head I'd prefer "Murican" to "USian".
:)Yeah, who invented that atrocity. I'm just going to stick with actual words with standard US-English pronunciations.