I just thought I'd check, since people have been claiming that the hobby was on the verge of death 10 years ago when I first started my blog, and back in 2006 when this site was in early days, and on a pretty regular basis in the various years hence... but I haven't heard someone claiming it was about to die lately. Something change? Or were people just sick of being wrong?
I think the panic brigade has moved on to just calling the hobby misogynistic or something.
The hobby was never dying.
On the decline? I don't think so, judging by all of the indie publishers churning out works.
But, as usual, the hobby is being ripped apart from the inside with factional infighting. Or maybe it's the same as it always was: social media just accelerates it or makes it more easy to "see". So it may seem like it's all gonna implode.
The hobby isn't going to die. Big companies will just give up on the hobby and move on while us small guys will still be producing books with our ideas.
I don't think it is dying.
5e is pretty popular and Pathfinder represents a diversity that protects the hobby from the missteps by WotC and as much as I might wish otherwise, a strong D&D tends to result in a stronger hobby.
nooope
I've read a couple of RPG publishers stating that the industry has picked up modestly since a low point around 2011-2012.
Coincidentally or not, that tracks with the failure of 4e and the relative but not overwhelming success of 5e.
I have noticed the change in the tenor of internet discussion, much less heated and more accepting of the enormous diversity of games and approaches to gaming.
The converse is that there may be less passion. In the 90s you had the emergence of the lifestyle WW gamer, in the 2000s there were the Forge Wars. These days there is little of that, more people are realising that RPGs are just another pastime like boardgames. Which is how it should be, really, for adults. But I miss some of the overblown absorption into both games themselves and the tribal conflicts around them.
So no, the hobby is far from dead, and more surprisingly, the industry lives on as well. But for me personally - and maybe I'm reading way too much of my own feelings into the general situation - I feel more distance and less excitement in the whole scene.
Serious correlation question... are people getting tired of MMORPGs? And deciding that face to face interaction has more of a role to play in RPGs? I could be off track especially with the advent of virtual table tops, but I would look at that relationship for the answer.
Reports of the hobby's death have been greatly exaggerated.
Also exaggerated, reports about reports of the hobby's death.
Sure not seeing death around my neck of the woods, my table is packed with players every weekend and I've turned a few away.
The hobby was never in danger of death.
The industry has been foretelling doom since the bubble burst in the early 80s.
One day the industry will probably die. The hobby will continue along just fine.
Quote from: The_Shadow;823156I've read a couple of RPG publishers stating that the industry has picked up modestly since a low point around 2011-2012.
Coincidentally or not, that tracks with the failure of 4e and the relative but not overwhelming success of 5e.
I have noticed the change in the tenor of internet discussion, much less heated and more accepting of the enormous diversity of games and approaches to gaming.
The converse is that there may be less passion. In the 90s you had the emergence of the lifestyle WW gamer, in the 2000s there were the Forge Wars. These days there is little of that, more people are realising that RPGs are just another pastime like boardgames. Which is how it should be, really, for adults. But I miss some of the overblown absorption into both games themselves and the tribal conflicts around them.
So no, the hobby is far from dead, and more surprisingly, the industry lives on as well. But for me personally - and maybe I'm reading way too much of my own feelings into the general situation - I feel more distance and less excitement in the whole scene.
That probably has less to do with the games themselves and more to do with the age of the gamers. When I was younger, people would get into all sorts of "wars" over Nintendo VS Sony, Mac VS Apple, etc. Now nobody really cares.
I suppose another way of looking at it is that the war has become SJW versus not, now.
I dropped by a local game day and they had 2/3rd the crowd of 5 years ago and nobody under 30 in attendance, most were over 40.
In the Los Angeles area, I don't see any signs of growth, only shrinkage among the aging player base. I know the Bay Area cons are thriving, but I don't know how much of that is RPG vs. boardgame in their areas of growth.
That said, I've seen lots of young people playing boardgames at the FLGS.
It seems to be doing pretty well with the expat community over here. That may be due to having greater visibility on account of a growing FB rpg group though. The English teacher crowd is of a more bohemian/hipster/nerd bent (and has high turnover) so its vitality may not have changed, it just has just more visibility.
As to the the death of the industry, the OSR clearly saved D&D. Without it, we would not have 5e being a neoclone and successful. It would be more Forgy and cludgy and not worth a lick. So, maybe the naysayers were right. If the industry had remained on its track, it would have ended. Luckily "greybeards" and underemployed lawyers (and maybe Kickstarter) saved the day! Giving credit where it is due, PF also helped stabilize the biz.
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;823169That probably has less to do with the games themselves and more to do with the age of the gamers. When I was younger, people would get into all sorts of "wars" over Nintendo VS Sony, Mac VS Apple, etc. Now nobody really cares.
Yeah I think age has a lot to do with it. Maybe around 35 (start of middle age) is a turning point on average for many people.
After around that age, as far as preferences go, they are what they are and naysayers can sod off. And also, you realise that as much as you love your hobby, and have invested so much in over the years, it's just a hobby, and the bills need paying, your health needs maintenance, etc, and other things just pale in significance.
And the average RPG hobbyist has now definitively aged past that point.
Its sort of dying in that compared to the 80s - early 90s, there are fewer people getting into it. I think the majority of regular players are older. If someone hasn't quit after playing for 20+ years, chances are they will be gaming deep into the golden years.
Local game stores in Portlandia seem to be packed with boardgame players mostly.
Quote from: The_Shadow;823156I've read a couple of RPG publishers stating that the industry has picked up modestly since a low point around 2011-2012.
According to ICv2 the low point was 2008, and the industry is "not dying anymore" for quite some time now:
"The hobby games market grew around 15% in 2014, the sixth consecutive year of growth, according to a new report in
ICv2's Internal Correspondence #87. The market is now roughly 2.25 times as large as it was in 2008, the last time the market declined."
http://icv2.com/articles/news/view/30959/six-straight-growth-years-hobby-games
QuoteI have noticed the change in the tenor of internet discussion, much less heated and more accepting of the enormous diversity of games and approaches to gaming. (...) But I miss some of the overblown absorption into both games themselves and the tribal conflicts around them.
But that seems to be subjective as Necrozius feels differently:
Quote from: Necrozius;823148But, as usual, the hobby is being ripped apart from the inside with factional infighting. Or maybe it's the same as it always was: social media just accelerates it or makes it more easy to "see". So it may seem like it's all gonna implode.
I wonder how much of the "missing folk" in Hobby Shops are truly not playing; given that Gamers are geeks and geeks tend to be early adopters of new technology, how many are playing MMO's (which does cater to a certain mindset) and playing in virtual rooms (like Google Meetups)?
Also, while it is true that I am aging, so to is it true my son is as well. And he started playing PF & 5th Ed this year.
Quote from: Novastar;823183I wonder how much of the "missing folk" in Hobby Shops are truly not playing; given that Gamers are geeks and geeks tend to be early adopters of new technology, how many are playing MMO's (which does cater to a certain mindset) and playing in virtual rooms (like Google Meetups)?
Also, while it is true that I am aging, so to is it true my son is as well. And he started playing PF & 5th Ed this year.
Bullshit.
I'm seeing
MORE people in the store these days...
- Ed c.
NO
NOPE - Hobby Not 'dying'.
If anything it seems to be getting a tad stronger - maybe stronger than ever.
At the store I'm actually seeing MORE people getting into RPG and D&D type gaming than ever before compared to the past seven years.
Its BOTH new gamers and people who tried it once or twice and now getting back into it and trying it again. The NEW edition of Dungeons & Dragons seems to have done the trick of getting people back and getting new folks interested.
I'm also getting more questions about using our tables for RPG groups needing a place to play. They are pleasantly shocked when I say the table space and time is free. Some thought we would be charging 'rent'. (Nope , that's why the tables are there - so people can play games)
- Ed C.
Around here I have more players than I can get into my two games, and for most people is the same. The only people who don't game are those who have insane work schedules or familiar obligations that prevent them from doing so.
Maybe not, but I'd check to see if it's graying.
Quote from: RPGPundit;823140I just thought I'd check, since people have been claiming that the hobby was on the verge of death 10 years ago when I first started my blog, and back in 2006 when this site was in early days, and on a pretty regular basis in the various years hence... but I haven't heard someone claiming it was about to die lately. Something change? Or were people just sick of being wrong?
I don't think the hobby is dying, but I think it is being infiltrated by a lot more SJWs and their Quislings.
Quote from: TristramEvans;823166The hobby was never in danger of death.
The industry has been foretelling doom since the bubble burst in the early 80s.
One day the industry will probably die. The hobby will continue along just fine.
Mostly this, but the industry is pretty much into the long tail of its market cycle. It won't die, it'll just persist at a low level.
The hobby isn't dying. The industry might be depending on how you measure the industry, but the industry isn't the hobby. The industry depends on a healthy hobby full of people who buy their games/accessories. On the other hand, the hobby depends on people who are willing to play games, often with no purchase needed, so while a healthy industry is generally good for the hobby, it isn't necessary for the hobby.
Most of the claims I've seen over the years that the hobby is dying are really about the industry not being profitable/profitable enough. Sure, the hobby is smaller than it was in the 1980s, but many leisure time activities are smaller than they were in the 1980s as people today have less leisure time and many more choices of what to do in what leisure time they have.
Quote from: MonsterSlayer;823159Serious correlation question... are people getting tired of MMORPGs? And deciding that face to face interaction has more of a role to play in RPGs? I could be off track especially with the advent of virtual table tops, but I would look at that relationship for the answer.
I think there's a constant churn in MMOs these days, although WoW has abandoned pretty much any attempt to bring in new people and are instead focusing on getting back people who used to subscribe. To that end, the "remember the past!" Warlords of Draenor expac was initially a great success, although I have heard of players dropping off after the initial burst of enthusiasm. But WoW has a TON of ex-players, so they have a lot of people they could churn through before they have to worry about doing something drastic to keep subscriptions up.
As far as the rest of MMOs, there were two rather spectacular failures last year --The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar-- although both of those failures were more due to the belief that the hardcore "Vanilla WoW was the BEST way to do things!" was what players were looking for. In particular, Wildstar completely got that one wrong, to the tune of maybe a 100-200k subscribers are left.
The MMO players that convert to pencil and paper RPGers, well, I've not seen it very much. 4e was much more MMO player friendly in its design, and we know how well that one went over. I do wonder if some of the people playing Neverwinter are going to try out 5e given all of the cross environment coordination that Neverwinter and 5e have, but I've not heard of many doing so yet.
Green Ronin had a very good chance at capitalizing on the Dragon Age: Inquisition build up and release, but they really dropped the ball with Set 3. It's a shame, really, because they had a lot of good press with the Tabletop episode and everything else.
If someone had put out a good Marvel RPG right now, they'd be doing well too, given that the MCU and the MMO Marvel Heroes are doing well in their respective areas.
I can only speak for my local area, but the hobby isn't what it used to be in the St. Louis metro. Back in the days of second and third edition D&D I had a large pool of players to roll with. White Wolf games were especially popular here and I hosted a gathering that included up to a dozen regulars at one point. The number of brick and mortar stores selling RPG products has also sharply declined.
I had a friend who owned a chain of three gaming stores, but now it has been resold twice and is now down to one location under a different name. The other "major" hobby store now only really sells a couple Pathfinder and D&D books in low volume.
The gaming stores still in existence really only have the Pathfinder society going for them now, and I don't have much interest in that game or structured play. Rarely, a D&D "gameday" will be held with only a small turn out.
I am currently struggling to maintain a group of 3 to 4 revolving players of varying interests which makes longer campaigns nearly impossible. I personally know of two other gaming groups that don't routinely meet in stores, but they are composed of the GM's family and friends and they are not looking for new players or GM's.
Unfortunately, my gaming life is a bit unsatisfying at the moment. I've joined a board game group and I've had a good time, but it just doesn't have the magic of a good RPG. I wish that I like Magic:The Gathering. It sells crazy well around here. Just last week I saw a circle of 10-13 year old girls playing a multiplayer M:TG on a porch at my apartment complex. At least they can keep a little bit of the hobby alive. I would have asked them what other games they played out of curiosity, but I figured I would probably have looked like some sort of pervert.
To summarize, the RPG scene in St. Louis is nothing like it used to be. Aside from a few small groups that keep to themselves, the Pathfinder Society is really all there is. However, the board game and CCG scene is the strongest I've ever seen it. Thanks Obama.
At least based on my FLGS, the hobby is alive and well in my neck of the woods. There is at least 1 D&D game going whenever I go in to browse, and the median age seems to be early 20s.
My (totally anecdotal and unsupported) impression is that the Great Contraction happened in the 90s, and there hasn't been a comparable decline since.
The hobby has been dying since at least 1990. Given it's growth in that time, it must be undead. Its the zombie apocalypse of hobbies.
Quote from: RPGPundit;823140I just thought I'd check, since people have been claiming that the hobby was on the verge of death 10 years ago when I first started my blog, and back in 2006 when this site was in early days, and on a pretty regular basis in the various years hence... but I haven't heard someone claiming it was about to die lately. Something change? Or were people just sick of being wrong?
Thats been going on since at least the 80s.
Arcade games! The hobby might die!
Console games! The hobby will die!
PC games! The hobby WILL die!
MMO games! The hobby HAS died!
VR games! The hobby died long ago!
Vulcan Mind Meld games! The hobby was/is/will be dying!
Same for board games.
Same for PC games.
In decline =/= dying.
Something both those saying the hobby is dying and those saying it's not should keep in mind.
The brick and mortar side of the hobby sure seems diminished around here, but man, the rolled up sleeves side, the internet side is flourishing. I like this side far more.
The tabletop industry isn't dying so much as shifting.
The old meetup and tabletop with its travel considerations and moving around all the various minis, maps, tokens, dice, etc. is more for older folks. I'm 36 so its unlikely I am gonna change and adapt to the new way of doing things at least as long as I have a reliable and stable gaming group (which I have had for about 23 years now). This method of gaming tends to support local hobby shops more because you need all the various gaming accoutrements as well as physical books to play. Every time I get a new PC I want a new shiny mini to represent them, for example. And when you are in there you gotta buy a new set of dice... And is there any new Savage Worlds (or insert game you love here) settings in print available...
The new way of doing things though relies on PDFs from DriveThruRPG displayed on modern devices like tablets which give you the rules at your fingertips or even just a point and click with a mouse on your PC or laptop. Projectors can be used to project maps now onto tabletops. Both of these methods modernize the tabletop over the past methods. Virtual Tabletop PDF maps become more useful with projectors and VTT than physical maps (like my chessex map gathering dust). This method modernizes the tabletop but doesn't replace it 100%, but it does shift the money to digital PDFs over physical books and maps.
The virtual tabletop and facilitators like Roll 20, Fantasy Grounds, and MapTool mean you can set up a game board without leaving home. Then you can contact players through google + hangouts or skype and you have a virtual tabletop game without lugging around your gaming stuff or traveling. This is convenient for when you want to play without leaving home. But this method of gaming supports a digital economy 100% over local game stores.
This method has a low barrier of entry for producers of RPG material, as PDFs are much cheaper to produce than physical goods. And with DriveThruRPG having POD, even indie producers can afford to make print products as well for customers on a demand basis. So what we are seeing isn't a dying hobby, its a hobby that is transitioning from the tabletop to virtual tabletop or at the very least modernizing the tabletop.
The number of map producers on DTRPG has literally doubled from 90 to 180 in the past year (2 x the competition for DramaScape). So if anything, I see more of a Renaissance in gaming led by PDFs with lower barriers to entry for producers and consumers of RPGs to try more games.
Quote from: Omega;823251Thats been going on since at least the 80s.
Arcade games! The hobby might die!
Console games! The hobby will die!
PC games! The hobby WILL die!
MMO games! The hobby HAS died!
VR games! The hobby died long ago!
Vulcan Mind Meld games! The hobby was/is/will be dying!
Same for board games.
Same for PC games.
And the music industry, and the film industry, to the point that it seems any and all media industries have had doom and gloom predictions that have turned out to be crap.
Quote from: Warboss Squee;823310And the music industry, and the film industry, to the point that it seems any and all media industries have had doom and gloom predictions that have turned out to be crap.
Things do change. Nothing lasts forever. The music and film industries are still around, but dramatically different than they were. The mid-list band, movie, author, etc. is dead. All that's left are a few manufactured mega-hits and massive volumes of low-budget amateur efforts. If I look back at my favourite 20 or so movies, most them would not be be made today. Too talky for the international market relied on today. Or too expensive for a movie that doesn't appeal to today's core audience demographic of 16-24-year-olds.
The newspaper industry is dying. Within five years most cities will no longer have a daily print newspaper, and even online newspapers are losing money and shutting up shop. Journalist will soon be a part-time job for 20-somethings looking for pocket money and some work experience before they get a real job.
Fiction publishing is in a steep downward spiral. Author advances are a fraction of what they were 15 years ago. Most published novels today are barely proofread, let alone edited. Marketing budgets have evaporated. Publishers simply don't have the resources.
A better comparable to RPGs is the tabletop historical wargame hobby. Back in the early 80s Squad Leader sold 220,000 copies. Now the biggest publishers of wargames runs print runs of around 2,000, and only after the production costs have been collected via pre-orders. Lots of games being published, but most of them sit unplayed the shelves of collectors. Most convention attendees are grey-haired. And they scoff at the question "is the wargame hobby dying?" too. But nobody can offer a convincing answer to the question of where the new blood will come from in 10 years.
I think if the hobby isn't dying, it's in a decline for sure. Of course, if you're measuring it against the high water mark of the 1980's TSR heyday, pretty much anything will look like a decline. But as has been mentioned above, publishing is in a decline, which means serious reading is in a decline as well. I think many younger people that, if this were the 1980's, would have gravitated toward pen and paper RPG's, are now gravitating toward video games (RPG format and otherwise). You don't need a party of people to play many of these; you and maybe a buddy or two are all that is required. I am continually frustrated in my efforts to get a once a MONTH thing going with my group, between our work and family responsibilities. I look with longing at more blue collar types who seem to have no trouble at all getting together once a week for bowling or poker night. This problem is wholly eliminated by videogames. Even if you do want/need a party, the server is packed with people from all over the world ready to answer your "looking for group" mass messages. I also think it's easier to get into video games when you're younger these days; RPG's just take more intellectual wherewithal, and you really can't get into them as early. This fosters a certain attitude/expectation from pen and paper RPG's, should people raised on video games ever decide to try them. "What do you mean I can only cast that spell ONCE per day?!" "What do you mean my guy's dead? Can't we start over from the last encounter?" I fear that if RPG's don't meet these altered expectations, they'll continue to look elsewhere for their fun.
All that having been said, my eight year old son has been chomping at the bit to learn how to play AD&D and RIfts. I don't know how old will be "old enough" in my estimation (I first tried Basic D&D - totally incorrectly - at age 9 or so), but he isn't there yet. I just hope he's still interested in a few years, so I can start him down this path. He lost interest pretty quickly in MtG, after I spent a TON of money on cards and hours building kick ass decks with him. I hope RPG's do a better job of holding his interest.
I don't think so. The brick and mortar parts of it may be dying in some places, just as the publishing industry in general seems to be. Online, though, I see a shitload of cool stuff. A real renaissance and I don't mean the OSR only.
The hobby has been dying ever since before I entered it. Some OSR taliban might even claim that it was already dying before I was even born in 1984.
I think the hobby has been in an arctic sunset for decades now, steadily nearing the point of extinction but never truly reaching it. The heydays are over, competing media are stealing potential new players (and leading old-time players astray), but there is and will be a certain core of gamers who enjoys RPGs over other games, and there will always be new people who are willing to give it a try and stick for the ride.
Of the group of RPGers I run DnD 5e for.
The veteran Roleplayers are myself and one other guy.
There's my 2 kids who've been playing for some years and I've also introduced 2 new people in the group to RPGs and they love it.
I AM making an active effort to get people to play by asking people at my boardgaming club if they want to try it out, but I get a positive response.
So I don't think it's dying, but if you WANT it to keep going, you should make an effort to be open about it and encourage other people (who are receptive and possibly interested in that sort of thing) to give it a try.
Hobby never was dying, it just fractured. Nowadays, if you don't like D&D or WoD, you can choose from a bazillion other games, all readily available even from other half of the world, as long as you can pay for shipping for PoD.
I myself introduced at least 10- 20 players to the hobby, out of which at least half are still regulars.
Quote from: Koltar;823198The NEW edition of Dungeons & Dragons seems to have done the trick of getting people back and getting new folks interested.
D&D had never been something I was particularly interested in trying, but my wife and I recently played the NEW edition
and enjoyed it. Forum member Vonn was the GM.
It is my impression that the hobby seems to be doing much better than say 10 years ago. There's also more RPGs on the shelves in game stores nowadays around these parts.
Quote from: The_Shadow;823156I've read a couple of RPG publishers stating that the industry has picked up modestly since a low point around 2011-2012.
Coincidentally or not, that tracks with the failure of 4e and the relative but not overwhelming success of 5e.
I have noticed the change in the tenor of internet discussion, much less heated and more accepting of the enormous diversity of games and approaches to gaming.
The converse is that there may be less passion. In the 90s you had the emergence of the lifestyle WW gamer, in the 2000s there were the Forge Wars. These days there is little of that, more people are realising that RPGs are just another pastime like boardgames. Which is how it should be, really, for adults. But I miss some of the overblown absorption into both games themselves and the tribal conflicts around them.
So no, the hobby is far from dead, and more surprisingly, the industry lives on as well. But for me personally - and maybe I'm reading way too much of my own feelings into the general situation - I feel more distance and less excitement in the whole scene.
dont worry there are still fights over point buy vs rolled stats and those will never go away
Quote from: RunningLaser;823277The brick and mortar side of the hobby sure seems diminished around here, but man, the rolled up sleeves side, the internet side is flourishing. I like this side far more.
Part of that was due to the concerted efforts of WOTC and GW to actively kill off FLGS. From the wreckage of that the shops have gradually been returning. Locally a new store opened down the street and they have a big open gaming area no less.
Quote from: Haffrung;823313A better comparable to RPGs is the tabletop historical wargame hobby. Back in the early 80s Squad Leader sold 220,000 copies. Now the biggest publishers of wargames runs print runs of around 2,000, and only after the production costs have been collected via pre-orders. Lots of games being published, but most of them sit unplayed the shelves of collectors. Most convention attendees are grey-haired. And they scoff at the question "is the wargame hobby dying?" too. But nobody can offer a convincing answer to the question of where the new blood will come from in 10 years.
Wargames are still plugging away. Some doing fairly well even. There was for a time a downswing as there developed a push for minis intensive wargames. They are just too costly to make and too risky for the cost. Now there is a resurgance in interest in hex and counter driven games as new players discover that theres more to wargaming than minis.
Also the skirmish/squad level wargame is seeing a big upswing in releases. Some doing pretty well. There is also renewed interest in older AH and Metagaming type wargames and micro-games. Ambush! from AH has been getting alot of attention this last year for some reason from fans old and new. Possibly because its is a pretty unique approach to a wargame.
Years ago on TBP, back when publishers used to comment there regularly, the consensus from industry types whenever this subject came up was that the same numbers that would have been considered middling to disappointing sales in 1989 would constitute a massive beak out hit in 2000. So unquestionably there was a steep drop off during the 90s.
What I'd be interested to see is how stable things have been from roughly 2000 to the present.
Yeah, the hobby's pretty much about to die out.
Wait, no it's not.
April Fools Day was yesterday.
Twitch TV and Hitbox are online gaming stream sites. Both have categories for tabletop RPGs (as "Dungeons & Dragons"). While not the powerhouse of views that Hearthstone (seriously) and World of Warcraft are (and Heroes of the Storm will become), they are good-sized and growing.
Virtual Tabletop technology is now cheap and user-friendly enough to replace meatspace meetups for an increasing number of players. That's where your growth is, and that means rulesets need to change to facilitate virtual tabletop usage if publishers want to take advantage of it. Electronic publishing is a big part of it, but continued development of things like Roll20 is the load-bearing pillar holding it all up.
An increasing number of these stream hosts are (a) making that "pro-GM" thing a reality that pays (subscription income is a thing), and (b) using YouTube as an archive of past streams. (Go look up "Table Topping" at YouTube to see one guy doing just this; runs four or five weekly campaigns of D&D5 and Pathfinder.) Since you need not even have user accounts to watch streams, using these sites as resources is an option. (You will need an account to use the chatrooms, but that's free.)
He who isn't busy being born is busy dying.
I was reading through G. Gygax's posts on dragonsfoot, and thought what he said here is sorta tangentially interesting to this topic:
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=166610#p166610
QuoteThe number of crashed RPG groups from ill-advised "improvements" to the game system is likely staggering. What the hobby really needs is a school to teach GMing, with classes in game design and creative writing included. thet would surely add greatly to the number of RPG fans enjoying real RPGing;)
I think GM'ing well isn't easy, but having a good GM as my first experience was what hooked me onto the hobby irreversibly. Still, I'd say that I've had more so-so to mediocre GMs than good ones. Maybe if there was mentoring of some sort, there would be more good GMs and more people coming into the hobby.
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;823829I think GM'ing well isn't easy, but having a good GM as my first experience was what hooked me onto the hobby irreversibly. Still, I'd say that I've had more so-so to mediocre GMs than good ones. Maybe if there was mentoring of some sort, there would be more good GMs and more people coming into the hobby.
The trouble is that so often it's a matter of someone with no previous experience getting the book and so becoming GM for friends who are no wiser. If there's someplace to get started by playing with an experienced GM, then one can learn from that.
I don't think it's a big handicap, though. The point, after all, is simply for everyone to have fun; it's not like more competitive games. It's pretty much like throwing a party, not rocket engineering. Talk, listen, respond with an eye to keeping the dramatic action going and everyone engaged.
A handbook should include some basic pointers on how to GM, not just a rules set, if it's to be good for very inexperienced people. Folks with some experience in GM'd wargames, LARP, or such might be good to go with just a brief rundown.
The hobby is dying insofar as it isn't making money.
Of course neither is the rest of the economy.
JG
Quote from: James Gillen;823850The hobby is dying insofar as it isn't making money.
Of course neither is the rest of the economy.
JG
Not allowed to go into 'details' - but our store at Holiday time this past year did much better than it did in 2013. As a result certain adjustments were made in favor of the employees.
Not a 'huge' thing I know - but still better business than the previous year is a good thing. One of several factors contributing to that might have been the new edition of
Dungeons & Dragons being available just before the Holiday season.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Teazia;823176Giving credit where it is due, PF also helped stabilize the biz.
At times I wonder how much of Paizo's revenue is primarily generated from the compulsive completionist crowd on the Pathfinder splatbook treadmill.
Quote from: ggroy;823918At times I wonder how much of Paizo's revenue is primarily generated from the compulsive completionist crowd on the Pathfinder splatbook treadmill.
Selling to compulsive completionists is a pretty nice gig if you can get it. How much of White Wolf's revenue during their boom years in the 90s came from obsessed WoD completionists?
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;823829Maybe if there was mentoring of some sort, there would be more good GMs and more people coming into the hobby.
Maybe the GM section should be put in the front of the book.
I'm not really joking.
I fully agree that good GMs increase the player base. That's one of the main ideas behind RPGA and other organized play - having premade adventures that the GM follows page by page takes some of the guesswork out of the process. Instead of wondering if this random mook at the end of the table knows how to put together a coherent adventure, that is done for them.
Not my preferred way of playing, but I have not had a problem finding GMs who know how to create adventures, but apparently that's a big issue for many GMs.
I do agree RPG companies should incentivize GMs getting more skilled.
Quote from: ggroy;823918At times I wonder how much of Paizo's revenue is primarily generated from the compulsive completionist crowd on the Pathfinder splatbook treadmill.
I know for a fact that was what kept TSR and White Wolf going as long as they did. :D
JG
Quote from: Spinachcat;823957Maybe the GM section should be put in the front of the book.
I'm not really joking.
I fully agree that good GMs increase the player base. That's one of the main ideas behind RPGA and other organized play - having premade adventures that the GM follows page by page takes some of the guesswork out of the process. Instead of wondering if this random mook at the end of the table knows how to put together a coherent adventure, that is done for them.
Not my preferred way of playing, but I have not had a problem finding GMs who know how to create adventures, but apparently that's a big issue for many GMs.
I do agree RPG companies should incentivize GMs getting more skilled.
I agree - "how do I run this thing" in front of more RPGs might be a big boon. The assumption is always that you're already in the hobby and know what you're doing isn't always positive.
Personally always thought it made more sense to explain what you do and how, preferably with examples of game play to show various things you could/might do with the game, before you even get into creating characters and rules. So many games start out with "here's how you create your character" but unless you have a guide it's sometimes hard to know what you should create and why.
Quote from: MonsterSlayer;823159Serious correlation question... are people getting tired of MMORPGs? And deciding that face to face interaction has more of a role to play in RPGs? I could be off track especially with the advent of virtual table tops, but I would look at that relationship for the answer.
I think that the person who was dragged away from the tabletop for ease of access in MMORPGs has probably migrated to tablet gaming and not come back to the fold (noting that some people did migrate back, I am sure, but that the sort of person who thought D&D was a pain in the ass and WoW fulfilled all their needs is probably still playing WoW...and if WoW stopped filling their needs, I doubt they're going to migrate "backwards" necessarily unless they've had a genuine epiphany about how hollow the online MMO experience is these days.
Ain't THAT^ the truth. I enjoyed the hell out of WoW when I first started playing. . . had some IRL friends I'd hook up with, made some in game friends after awhile, enjoyed grouping with random folks when they weren't available. . . the whole nine. But as expectations changed for the rest of them, and all I wanted to do was quest and level my guys, nary a party to be found. People were all too busy cornering the market on brilliant shards and crafting Dragonscale armor to sell for gold to buy a legendary weapon. What the hell they needed it for, since they never went out and DID anything was besides the point. Sitting across the table from a group of guys, united in a common quest referee'd by a real GM, has it all over the fractured, stat-driven wasteland of MMORPG's.
I'm finding that my story isn't an isolated one; a gamer in my teenage years in the 90s, I dropped out of the hobby for a long time, only to get back into it in the last couple of years. I think that the online gaming community has something to do with that. I've also been able to connect with great players through Meetup and to be honest, while FLGSs may be dying, being able to get games as PDFs has revolutionised my consumption. Where local shops only stock the big names, I'm now able to hear about cool stuff online and have it in my hands in minutes. Also, I think that age has brought me to a place where I'm more into the idea of proposing to new players to come along and join in, and I have a couple of new prospects for my next campaign. If it weren't for adult life curtailing gaming time I'd be running games weekly. As it is I'm lucky to get a game in every month. But I can get the methadone of talking about gaming online, which is something. If I were to make the leap to online gaming through Roll20 or whatever I could be gaming several times a week. But I'm not quite there yet. I agree with those who've said that gaming is changing rather than dying ....