TheRPGSite

Some time ago I bought myself HeroQuest. I like freeform systems - I realise they're not good for every group and mood, sometimes you just need a laundry list of things to choose from - but still, I like them and have had some fun with them. I also like the idea of the "describe your guy in 100 words, and from that we get their abilities" thing. Again, not for everyone, but fun.

But the game book itself is so cluttered with the Glorantha stuff, and game design musings, and play examples from a pretty unimpressive game group, that it's hard to get a good handle on what the thing would look like in play with a good game group. There just doesn't seem to be much around, and HeroQuest is starting to look like one of those games which is widely-praised but rarely-played.

Over on the current HQ forum, I posted asking for and got some example narrative descriptions of characters (http://molad.org/forum/index.php/topic,81.0.html). And there's a really good and interesting convention game example, Serenity: HeroQuest, "Echoes in the Black" (http://molad.org/forum/index.php/topic,19.0.html) (check it out even if you hate HQ, it's good). But aside from that... not so much.

So, who's got some examples for me? Or is HeroQuest too commie mutant traitor for therpgsite? ;)

I was just trying to find a good review that said something about how the system works.  So far, just fluff.  Anyone have a link to a good review that talks about the game itself instead of the setting / brand history?

HQ at its core is just a really flexible chargen and resolution system. But it's a really good one.

The curious can download the game aids from here (http://www.glorantha.com/support/downloads.html). You can play a game of HQ off these if you have the slightest idea of how the system works. These are the core rules, and you could use them to do any setting you like.

In play I think it works best if you run it like Dogs in the Vineyard, that is:

1. Say yes or roll the dice: never roll for anything unless there's a bona fide conflict to be resolved by it. If there is, hit the dice.

2. Drive towards conflict: As the GM, go in hard looking for opportunities to bring on the conflicts. The skill lies in driving the game towards these points.

If you play that way, you get a natural and uncontroversial flow of free roleplaying (dialogue, whatever), punctuated by dice rolls upon which the next bit depends. That's where the system comes into its own.

The system is infinitely scaleable (you can have conflicts between gods or beggars), contains infinite possibilities for conflicts (every ability can in principle be used in a conflict) and is infinitely 'zoomable' (you can zoom in and out on any conflict you want).

So in play, you could decide the result of a war in one roll, or you could play out a moment's stare as a struggle of wills in an extended contest. The sky's the limit. However, I strongly suggest sticking to simple contests for the first game or two.

Augments can be a pitfall. If people just run their fingers down their sheets going "...and +2 for Hates Lunars", it's boring. Like the whole game, in fact. This is one game you want people willing to pitch in and play with gusto, because there's nowhere to hide.

So when people augment, allow anything they come up with as long as it's entertaining and plausible (to your group's standard). It's not about powergaming, it's about getting the abilities on the sheet all interrelating and being roleplayed.

In HQ you'll find that failure and partial success happens a lot. Watch how you frame contests. You should have an idea going in how failure (and especially partial failure) might pan out. My general principle is that it should be interesting either way. Any time you forget that, things can get sucky.

I think it's useful to think of the system in terms of conflicts rather than tasks. Ask the player what they want to achieve. For example, if somebody enters a sword-fight, are they trying to kill their opponent, make him beg for mercy or carve a Z on his forehead? You need a general sort of idea so that you can interpret the results of the contest.

Will that do for now?

That sounds like very good advice, droog, and it's nice and concrete, not abstract.

One thing not mentioned is character generation and the imagination required, and also imagination required in play. That's my impression, that it requires a lot of imagination. Some systems require imagination in chargen, but not so much when resolving conflicts and tasks; Fate might be an example of this. But it seems like HeroQuest needs a lot of imagination during chargen and in play. Am I right?

My experience is that most players have a good bit of imagination in creating their character, but when playing them, not as much. Doesn't mean they're dull and stupid, it's just a relative thing. For some reason, many players find it easier to write a few pages of character background than (say) describe what it means when they just won some PC-NPC contest - that's what I've found with systems like Risus.

I've talked to other players and GMs, so I know I'm not unique in this - imagination for character generation being much greater than imagination in play. Do you think HeroQuest can improve this, encouraging imagination in play? I've often said, "okay, you succeed/fail - tell me what happened?" and got blank looks from players, had to do the description myself. You can get away with that in games like RuneQuest, because you've got the rules stuff to fall back on, but I'm worried that HeroQuest would fall absolutely flat.

I'm sure this is a GMing and player thing rather than HQ-specific, but still... What are people's thoughts?

I don't think HQ improves your imagination in play, but it does enable it. Risus is an excellent comparison – you might say HQ may suit people who want a slightly crunchier Risus.

I think it's doom for HQ if you run anything resembling a straightforward adventure. The system is just not interesting enough to sustain a series of rolls to get through. I think you've got to hit the characters hard with external conflict that links to their chr sheets and forces them to choose sides, make decisions etc. A rich setting is good for this because it gives you plenty of material (eg the rival clan is vying for control of Richberry Valley etc).

Every time I've got this recipe right, the players have had very little trouble getting into it. Try holding their hand a bit at first; eg I took my friend's chr sheet out of his hand and starting going down it for extra augments. Be encouraging.

But in any case, the official narrator of contest results in HQ is the GM, if I'm not greatly mistaken. Personally, I like to check stuff with the players and get their two cents' worth, but it's not actually theirs to call in the end. So that specific problem doesn't exist.

One thing on chargen: I'm not really a huge fan of the 100-words system, and I make it optional. It seems to me it rewards writing skill more than anything else – to me it's misplaced creativity. I prefer to just give them keywords and ten abilities.

Here's three chrs from the recent game I really should run a couple more sessions of:

Gaius Corerus Quintus

Keywords

Occupation: Haruspex 17
Culture: Roman 17
Religion: Old Roman Gods 17

Important Abilities

Philosophical Arguments 13
Weasel into people’s good graces 19
Incite Spiritual curiosity/turmoil 17

Unnerving Gaze 3M
Read Entrails 17
Predict Weather via Signs/Omens 14
Curse with ill fate/luck 15
Silence Crowd with gesture 15
Find useful Herbs 13
Deliver foreboding warning 13
High Ritual 13

Initial Goals

Secure a safe & comfortable position in a household of note.
Prevent Christianity from gaining a foothold in England, to ensure he never has to move on again.



Mairead

Keywords

Occupation: Druid
Culture: Irish
Religion: Old Gods


Important Abilities

Provide divine inspiration 14
Sing a distracting song 18
Look What I Found! 15
Perform horrid sacrifice 17
Throw something 16
Impose Geas 4M

Goals

To keep the Old Gods alive in the face of change.
To seek the Spear of Destiny (Spear of Lugh)

Geas

Never to stand with her back facing the sun on a Sabbat


Lucius

Keywords

Occupation: Clergyman 17
Culture: Briton 17
Religion: Roman Christian 17

Important Abilities

Dignity of the church 18
Recite Prayer 19
Sanctify 19
Uphold Family Honour 19
Speak in Tongues 10M2

Goals
To preserve Christianity and honour his family.


**********************************
This is a stripped-down version of HQ; basically I threw the magic system away. Notice the big abilities: Quintus really flogged 'Unnerving Gaze' and Lucius pulled off a couple of great scenes with 'Speaking in Tongues'.

droog really hit the main points.  HeroQuest is really a system for setting up and resolving conflict, not simple task resolution.  Every ability listed on the character sheet should represent a potential conflict that the character has either encountered before (thus, their listed level of advanced experience) or expects to encounter in the future (unmodified, base Keyword scores).  These are the sorts of problems that you and your people commonly have to come to grips with.

Now, it can be used as a simple task resolution system, but this is where it seems to fall a little flat -- especially with combat.  While another system would require a series of back-and-forth rolls, HeroQuest usually abstracts the task to a single roll, modified by whatever applicable abilities you can make the case for.  On the flip side of this, there is the Extended Contest, which does feature the back-and-forth volley exchange, but it isn't necessarily from one moment to the next, one action to the next -- it can be abstracted out to one entire situation to the next, or one season to the next.

I'm still pretty proud of this example that I trundle out a couple of times a year -- Glorantha for the Yoots (http://www.glorantha.com/support/na_yoots.html).  The HQ campaign described was from three years ago when my son was only 4.  I did most of the foot work for him, but I honestly think he grokked the basics of the system (even if I misunderstood bits of it at the time -- like round-by-round combat :deflated: ).  I think it really undescores the players freedom of action in both creating and portraying the character, and the simplicity in play.

Right now I'm about to start an Avatar, the Last Airbender campaign for both my son and daughter using HQ.  It's kind of old hat for my son, but my daughter really seems to be digging the freedom she has in creating her character.  And the "zoomable" scope that droog mentioned really fits the broadly varied nature of the source material.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaNow, it can be used as a simple task resolution system, but this is where it seems to fall a little flat -- especially with combat.  While another system would require a series of back-and-forth rolls, HeroQuest usually abstracts the task to a single roll, modified by whatever applicable abilities you can make the case for.  On the flip side of this, there is the Extended Contest, which does feature the back-and-forth volley exchange, but it isn't necessarily from one moment to the next, one action to the next -- it can be abstracted out to one entire situation to the next, or one season to the next.

This matches my impressions. I had a couple of sessions of play of it a few years ago, GMed by a fellow both droog and I know. That guy now says we didn't get to the heart of the thing, just using it as a task resolution system - of course I don't have the benefit of other sessions to compare it with. Nonetheless I enjoyed myself at the time. It did strike me as odd that there was no difference in game mechanics terms between Broadsword 13 and Polearm 13, or Fast Horse 17 and Fast Camel 17. The differences were cosmetic only.

Because of that, my impression was that you needed to focus a lot on vivid descriptions of things - if the system doesn't provide the difference, you have to! For me, the memorable part of the sessions I played was when we (the PCs) were arguing for a sneaky way of stealing/recovering a rival clan's cattle, and the NPCs were arguing for a violent way. So we spoke at a public meeting, and there was a Clan Chief 17 using his position to argue from, augmented by his Stout Warriors (Followers) 13 cheering for him, and my character the merchant who was Owed Favours 13 was moving through the crowd saying, "hey, you owe me favours, better cheer for our guy arguing!" and so on - lots of stuff went into it. The players' imagination plus the GM's openness to things made it exciting.

So when you guys are saying that the key is to make the conflicts interesting, so that both player and character are invested in it, that resonates strongly with me and the experience of those couple of sessions.

I realise that officially the GM is the narrator of things in HQ, but my instinct is that if that were strictly followed, then the strength of HQ - it being free and open for interesting description - might become a weakness, the players passively awaiting the GM's response. I think I'd encourage a bit of player description of things, that'd increase their feeling of investment, so that the difference between this and that trait wouldn't be only cosmetic for them.

Does that seem right?

Quote from: JimBobOzI realise that officially the GM is the narrator of things in HQ, but my instinct is that if that were strictly followed, then the strength of HQ - it being free and open for interesting description - might become a weakness, the players passively awaiting the GM's response. I think I'd encourage a bit of player description of things, that'd increase their feeling of investment, so that the difference between this and that trait wouldn't be only cosmetic for them.

Does that seem right?

Well, yes, but I recommend not just sitting back and saying "What do you reckon?", especially if they're used to more conventional resolution systems. You'll very likely need to lead by example and show them the potential.

Also, you should encourage roleplaying (description etc) on the input side before you encourage it on the output side. The players should be coming up with creative ways to use their abilities and augment, and roleplaying them. It should be a rule that you don't get the augment unless it's described in some way.

So then, the players build up excitement for the moment of the die roll, and the GM puts the capper on it after the roll. In practice, as always, that's more fluid if you let it be. The GM might suggest augments and the players might suggest outcomes – you should think of it as helping each other out. But it's part of the fun of GMing to have the narration of outcomes in your hands. Players in, GM out.

droog, do you think HQ would be appropriate for settings like Jorune. I've (okay a GM friend of mine) been trying do this for some time ? I've read that some folks use HQ for settings like Forgotten Realms, Krynn and other high fantasy settings. Would it work well for Jorune?

Regards,
David R

Encourage their input before encouraging the output side - that's one of those things which is obvious once someone else tells you it! Thanks :)

And another thing: the setting, or the shared sense of the fiction, is what makes the difference between abilities not cosmetic. For instance, if you're fighting in a narrow passageway 'Broadsword' might be more useful than 'Polearm'. That's handled through situational modifiers ("-10 to your Polearm skill for the cramped conditions"). Or say you have to race across a desert – is 'Fast Camel' better than 'Fast Horse' in those conditions? Maybe neither is ideal and what you really want is 'Camel with Stamina'.

And the outcomes will also be different. Are you going to solve this problem with 'Broadsword' or 'Charming Personality'? The outcome of that is going to be very definitely not cosmetic in its effects on the fiction.

That's why it's important to have a really good grasp on the setting. HQ puts the setting directly into play (through abilities), but you have to be on top of it. Again, this will be the GM's job, at least at first.

Quote from: David Rdroog, do you think HQ would be appropriate for settings like Jorune. I've (okay a GM friend of mine) been trying do this for some time ? I've read that some folks use HQ for settings like Forgotten Realms, Krynn and other high fantasy settings. Would it work well for Jorune?

HQ will do any setting you like, with the caveat that it's always HQ. If you don't like the way HQ does things, you won't like it in any setting.

I don't know a lot about Jorune, but it sounds like a rich setting. You just need to write the keywords. I can crap on about the process I went through if you like, and maybe work through some ideas for Jorune with you, but you'd have to give me a bit of a summary.

Quote from: droogI don't know a lot about Jorune, but it sounds like a rich setting. You just need to write the keywords. I can crap on about the process I went through if you like, and maybe work through some ideas for Jorune with you, but you'd have to give me a bit of a summary.

I'll post a rough outline (later on, got to get my notes) of the setting and you take it from there...

Regards,
David R

droog a very good summary may be found here:

http://www.jorune.org/index.html

Regards,
David R

Okay, I had a quick look. A question:

How are PCs differentiated? This determines how you're going to set up your keywords.

I see a multitude of races, for example. Is it common for PCs to be of several different races? There you have keywords, eg one chr has 'Acubon' and another has 'Blount'.

QuoteACUBON (PC - Phase #2).
Acubon are a fresh water human mutation found in the eastern waters of Lake Dah-uh-deh. Their language has been simply called Acubon. They are quiet, secretive and hold Revealing family information as a betrayal to their tribe. They have no known religion but are very environmentally sensitive and do not take well to strangers invading their territories, but seem to live in harmony with several of the neighboring Blount family groups. They must keep moist or they will dy from rapid dehydration. Acubon possess the secret of coleels, a opal-like gemstone infused with an inner fire that captivates all who see it..

Acubon Notes
Homelands : Lake Dah-uh-deh
Language : Acubon (1P to understand Salu)
Taboos: Revealing family Matters tooutsiders
Religion: Nature - water and weather
Weaknesses: Must keep moist or skin is damaged
Special : Makers of the coleel gemstones

So, looking at that:

QuoteSkills: Breathe in Fresh Water, Know Lake Dah-uh-deh, Keep Acubon Secrets, Live in Harmony with the Environment, Make Coleels, Speak Acubon, Swimming.

Typical Personality Traits: Hostile to Strangers, Cares for Environment, Secretive, Quiet.

Typical Relationships: to Family, to Tribe, to other Acubon.

Typical Followers: ? (younger family member?)

Flaw: Rapid Dehydration

I'm just riffing off the flavour text, basically. One of the strengths of HQ is that you can turn flavour text directly into mechanics. How's it look so far?

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaIt's kind of old hat for my son

That's cute. Has he been playing anything else since that historic HQ game?

I learned a lot from that thread, way back when. It helped me improve my game. Thahnks, mon.

QuoteHow's it look so far ?

Very interesting.

Quote from: droogOkay, I had a quick look. A question:

How are PCs differentiated? This determines how you're going to set up your keywords.

I see a multitude of races, for example. Is it common for PCs to be of several different races?

Okay, humans are divided into three distinct branches. Pure strain humans. The isho wielding Muadra and the Boccord. There are off course numerous othe races, Wolfen, Bronth etc.

Yeah, the pcs could be made up of various different races.

QuoteI'm just riffing off the flavour text, basically. One of the strengths of HQ is that you can turn flavour text directly into mechanics. ?

Okay, here's some random flavour (well at least from the first and second editions) how does this translate into rules?

1.Citizenship. The pcs most probably will begin the campaign on a quest to gain citizenship. Citizenship has many benefits. The use of energy weapons. Landowning. Respect etc. It also has many responsibilities. Defend the Realm. Enforce laws.

2. They gain the above by travelling the land (adventure) doing favours for citizens who will inscribe their chalisk and give testimony on their behalf.

3. Certain branches of humanity face prejudice in terms of their dealings with pure strain humans. The Muadra for example because of their ability to weild isho.

4. Relationships. (a) For instance one may work for the Thriddle roaming the lands searching for obscure arcana. (It's kind of like a profession)

(b). The blood bond between humans and Wolfen.

(c) Interactions with citizens.

5. Making weapons from the body parts of certain creatures.

6.(a) Interaction between the various races. The ability to differentiate between Northern and Southern Cougar.

(b) Languages. On Jorune your ability to speak various languages could be the difference between a brawl and dinner & drinks.

I'm just trying to give you some of the stuff that interest me in this setting. How would HQ handle these situations.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: JimBobOzIt did strike me as odd that there was no difference in game mechanics terms between Broadsword 13 and Polearm 13, or Fast Horse 17 and Fast Camel 17. The differences were cosmetic only.

As far as mechanics go, the difference is, in fact, purely cosmetic.  The importance of roleplaying, though, is really what kind of vision it evokes for the players.  In that sense, the idea in HQ isn't that a longsword is inherently better in combat than a dagger, but that someone with Dagger 17 is just as effective in bog-standard combat as someone with Longsword 17.  As droog mentioned, though, part of the GM's duty is to keep an eye open for where one weapon or fighting style will prove more effecgtive than another, or where one proves a liability (e.g. no matter what, Polearm 19W3 isn't worth crap in a twisting, earthen tunnel where you have to crawl on your belly).

Quote from: JimBobOzI realise that officially the GM is the narrator of things in HQ, but my instinct is that if that were strictly followed, then the strength of HQ - it being free and open for interesting description - might become a weakness, the players passively awaiting the GM's response.

Much can be said of any game, though, to one degree or another.  However, I think the opportunity for individual players to rope in augments to their rolls is a strong incentive for them to engage in the narration and come up with in-character rationales for their use.  Admittedly, there are players who just don't "get" augments, much like some players just don't "get" stunts in Exalted.

Quote from: droogHas [your son] been playing anything else since that historic HQ game?

He's recently discovered D&D through his friends on the school bus, and (indulgent father that I am) I recently bought him a set of the D&D 3.0 books.  He and I just rolled up his first character last night -- a gnome ranger! -- and we just played out the opening scene of a new adventure this afternoon.  In fact, I was thinking of starting an Actual-Play thread* here to detail it.

!i!

[*Edit: And, what do you know?  I've gone and done just that (http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=74862#post74862). :) ]

Quote from: David RYeah, the pcs could be made up of various different races.

You'll have to think about how you want the keywords to be grouped, basically. In Glorantha-HQ you've got Homeland, Occupation and Religion. What do you see as the major divisions?

For example, there seems to be an obvious Race/Nation dichotomy, but that wouldn't work well if Race and Nation were largely coterminous. You want a bit of interplay. Going back to the Acubon, is their society divided into occupations? They don't have religion, but do they have different schools of magic or philosophy?

Quote from: David ROkay, here's some random flavour (well at least from the first and second editions) how does this translate into rules?

1.Citizenship. The pcs most probably will begin the campaign on a quest to gain citizenship. Citizenship has many benefits. The use of energy weapons. Landowning. Respect etc. It also has many responsibilities. Defend the Realm. Enforce laws.

I'd make 'Citizenship' a keyword, and allow players to take it at chrgen. (see Imperial Lunar Handbook (http://www.glorantha.com/products/1302.html) Vol.1).

Obviously, that blows the quest apart, but to me it sounds more interesting to start as a citizen and get stuck into the realm-defending, land-owning and law-enforcing (not to mention the enrgy weapons).

Quote from: David R2. They gain the above by travelling the land (adventure) doing favours for citizens who will inscribe their chalisk and give testimony on their behalf.

What would the favours consist of? Chalisk could be an ability – what sort of contests might it be used in?

Quote from: David R3. Certain branches of humanity face prejudice in terms of their dealings with pure strain humans. The Muadra for example because of their ability to weild isho.

I don't know what isho might be, but the racial relations seem like material for situation rather than mechanics. Though perhaps pure-strain humans typically have 'Prejudice towards Weird Strains' or 'Hate Muadra' or something like that (and Personality Traits are optional, so you could definitely have the pure-strain human who isn't prejudiced).

Quote from: David R4. Relationships. (a) For instance one may work for the Thriddle roaming the lands searching for obscure arcana. (It's kind of like a profession)

Sounds like a good keyword. Would it cover a set of skills and traits like a profession?

Quote from: David R(b). The blood bond between humans and Wolfen.

'Blood Bond with Wolfen' or 'Blood Bond with Human' as abilities. Possibly (see below).

Quote from: David R(c) Interactions with citizens.

Need more info.

Quote from: David R5. Making weapons from the body parts of certain creatures.

Okay, stop. The question here is: does your weapon matter? If it's a common old weapon like everybody has, it's just an equipment modifier. If it's something special, it could be an ability ('Claw-Weapon of Doom 17'). Either way is legitimate.

You never need to make up special rules in HQ; you just need to consider how something translates into abilities and contests. There's always several different options for how to handle things, and they never have to be applied across the board.

For instance, just because I have 'Claw-Weapon of Doom 17' doesn't mean that my buddy has it, even if he has a claw-weapon. Is it an ability, a modifier, or fluff? How can it be used as a primary ability or augment, in what sorts of contests? It works the same way for everything.

Make any sense?

QuoteMake any sense?

Yes. I think I see the bigger picture now.

Quote from: droogI don't know what isho might be,...

An interesting explanation can be found here :

http://sholarijames.com/Tra/index.htm

So, what would be HQ's take on something like this ? (My final question :D)

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RSo, what would be HQ's take on something like this ? (My final question :D)

I might have to get back to you on this one (PDFs?!). Smells like magic system.

Quote from: droogSmells like magic system.

Yeah, it is. Thought I'd just sneak it into the discussion :D

Regards,
David R

Jim-Bob asked me to post some handouts I had for a game that I haven't actually run as yet, there's three in total.  First one:

QuoteBackground on the setting and culture your characters come from, written in the perspective of a father addressing his son:
 
A Personal View of Puritan Life
 
or,  What my Father told me
 
Who are you?
 
I am Matthew Castler, a farmer and respected member of this community.
 
Who are we?
 
We are the pure people, the Puritans.  Made in God's image we walk the true path and honour his name.
 
What makes us great?
 
Our purity and our obedience make us great.  We are pure both in body and mind because we fear and detest the abomination and the mutant.  We obey the laws of God and you obey the laws of the Council and the Keepers.  Through obedience and discipline we overcome the enemies of God and impose his order on their chaos.
 
Where do we live?
 
We live in Forestgate, on the edge of the Westwoods and the Wild beyond.   Through our hard work it is a prosperous land and we live well.
 
Why do we live here?
 
Where else would we choose to live?  To the west lies the Wild, full with abomination and deviance, the Wild Folk live there and will not permit a pure man to dwell among them.  To the South are only barren lands in which no life may grow.  Our vigilance protects the more settled lands to the North and East, they look to us and we do not fail them.  As we reclaim the Wild we make more land for ourselves, so we grow rich while those in more settled places struggle for their land.
 
How do we live?
 
Through hard work and honest labour.  We grow wheat, barley and rye in the fields, our herds of sheep and cows though small are healthy and free from deviance.  We hunt in the clean parts of the Westwoods for venison and other game, though one must be careful for the pure cannot partake of the impure and deviance is often subtle.
The poor among us eat porridge, bread and root vegetables.  They eat meat on feast days and game when they can catch it.  Those more beloved of God eat chicken, beef, lamb and other such good things.  We drink good beer which is valuable far beyond our lands, and apple and pear wine as well as mead.
We live in well built houses, those of the poor made from the purer trees of the Westwoods while those more beloved of God dwell in houses of stone.  Most of us are farmers, though some hunt and the Militia of course guard us all against the Wild.  Each man owns his own property, for none may own the home of another and all men are granted by law the right to such land as they need to feed them and their kin.
 
What is important in my life?
 
Duty, obedience and purity.  Obey your Father, the Council and the Keepers in all things.  Work hard and deal honestly and your words will be given weight when you speak to the Council.  Find yourself a good wife, a strong woman from a line which bears pure offspring, make sure her dowry is sufficient that you will be able to maintain your children, else you will have to claim land from the Wild to build your farm upon.
 
Who rules us?
 
The Council of Five.  Mayor Shansom, who speaks for the more beloved landowners.  Keeper Lakeland, who maintains the faith and the old knowledge.  The Sergeant, Harry Smith, who commands the Militia.  Rebecca Court our Healer.  Finally there is Tom Blackmore, know that although the others are appointed by custom and God Tom is elected and so speaks for those who own but little land or are poor and needful of charity.  Tom himself, though a warlock of minor power, is beloved of God himself and well liked.  You would do well to take your grievances to him for he is your voice among the elect.
 
What makes a man great?
 
Did you not listen before?  That which makes us great makes a man great too.  Obedience, duty, discipline, these are the things of greatness.  Do not trouble yourself with idle fancies or imaginings, solid things are best and fantasies are for children and the impure.
 
What is evil?
 
The Wild is evil, abominations and mutants are evil.  That which is like a man, beast or plant and yet has not the true form of man, beast or plant is an abomination and mutant and so is without soul and to be destroyed.  Beware above all that which thinks like a man but has not the form of man for it is the very Devil's child and will pollute and despoil if it is not slain.  By their works shall you know them, for they are inimical to man and though we destroy them root and branch whenever they are found still you will find they are intent on our destruction and show little mercy to the unwary.
 
What is the Wild?
 
The Wild is the home of the abomination and the mutant, life is without order there and chaos reigns over all.  Though most of the denizens of the Wild are weak and distorted things that live but little time some are unnaturally fecund and those we must be ever careful to destroy.  Look to the fields where each day we must struggle against the stranglegrass lest it overwhelm our crops, so is the Wild.  A place full with all that is hateful and counter to pure life.
 
What is my lot in life?
 
To work hard for your family and the community.  Soon you will be a man and will put aside childish things, from that day you will farm or craft or hunt as is your wont, you will attend the meetings of the Keepers and heed their words.  If you are strong or brave you may be chosen for the Militia, to fight against the Wild.  Know though that all men's duty is to destroy the mutant wherever they encounter it, so even if you are not Militia you will still be expected to fight when the unclean is found.
 
What is the difference between men and women?
 
Women bear children and in this is their weakness, for if they bear the unclean often they will seek to conceal or protect it so risking the purity of us all.  If a women bears three times the seed of evil she shall be permitted no further children and her marriage dissolved.  Other than this, it is allotted that men farm and hunt while women tend to house and children.
 
How do we deal with others?
 
We obey the Council and the Keepers, we are loyal to our kin and honour and obey our fathers and mothers.  Kin deserve loyalty above friends and friends above strangers.  A good friend is a gift from God who will help when you are sick and your family uncared for, your family will likewise see that your kin in turn are protected when you cannot protect them yourself.  Strangers must prove themselves, they may be changelings or agents of the Wild who conceal their mutation.  If the other is a mutant or harbours mutants then kill them, for they are an enemy of God.
 
Who are our enemies?
 
All things of the Wild are our enemies, for they have not the proper form granted by God.  The mutant and the abomination are our enemies, as are the Wild Folk who harbour them and live within the Wild.  The Warg and ratfolk walk the land, they have mind but are not men and must be slain if encountered.
 
Who are our gods?
 
Gods?  We are not the Wild Folk lost in error, we worship but one God and he is Father of us all and protector of purity.  He sent his only son into the world to give us the gifts of good law, discipline and rectitude.  His holy spirit lights among us giving us the wisdom to see the unclean and granting the Gift to some so that our communities can foresee that which is to come and heal the sick.  The Wisdom of the Keepers comes too from God and so their power is great and none may stand against them if they are angered.
 
What is there to do around here?
 
When the harvest is ready there is work to be done gathering it, then there are feasts and revels to celebrate the granting of another year.  Else we sing praise to God, racing and wrestling is popular among the younger men and there is always work to be done destroying the strangleweed that threatens our crops or cutting back the encroachments of the Wild.  God will grant us pleasure enough in the world to come and idle thoughts only lead to perdition, if you have time on your hands find yourself work to do!
 
Where did the world come from?
 
God created it and all things in a great explosion from which all that is erupted.  This big bang lasted for seven days and once the explosion ended all was as you see it now save that there was no abomination and purity reigned.  Abomination came into the world through the folly and impurity of man and this is why we were cast down from the power of the ancients to our humble state today.
 
Where did I come from?
 
Your mother bore you and you were judged of the pure stock, and not mutant.  All things that live are born into the world but only some are pure and right and only those may be permitted to live.
 
Why do we die?
 
So that we can receive our rewards in Heaven for our labours here on Earth.
 
What happens after we die?
 
We are judged, and if we have lived well and remained pure we are clothed in flesh incorruptible and dwell in glory.  Look around you, God blesses those who live well and though the base may find salvation a man's earthly rewards are good indication of what awaits him in the life hereafter.
 
Why am I here?
 
To restore the world to purity, that it is fit for the return of his Son who will not come back to Earth until all abomination has been wiped from its face.
 
How do I do magic?
 
Do you have the Gift?  If so then you should speak to our Warlock who will guide you in the ways of foresight and other sorceries.  The Gift is more common in women than men, but some men have it and it is a blessing on a community.  Can you heal with a touch?  If so then our Healer will instruct you.  Otherwise only the Keepers have magic, it is granted by God and is not for our understanding as it is forbidden to all who are not Keepers.  They can speak from one town to the next without words passing and can call death forth from holy wands upon the faithless or impure.  Their power is great and you should fear it and show proper awe.

Second one.

QuoteThis is the keyword for your culture, essentially this is a swift guide to the culture the characters are from.  Starting occupation (which forms a fairly small part of your character incidentally, it's what you did before play starts so don't worry too much if they look unappealing, that may well be why you started adventuring after all) is taken from the occupations available list, farmer and hunter are both good choices here.  Native Abilities are stuff that all people of your culture can do.  Typical Personality Traits are fairly self-explanatory, during character generation you may choose to buy some of these as actual traits (or may not, PCs are after all not the average person by and large), typical relationships works like personality traits, the rest speaks largely for itself.
 
PURITAN HOMELAND KEYWORD

Occupations Available: Craftsman, Entertainer, Farmer, Foot Soldier, Healer, Hunter, Merchant.

Native Abilities: Endure Hardship, Farming, Know Forestgate Area, Know Place in Society, Puritan Customs, Recognise Impurity, Rural Survival, Spear Fighting.

Typical Personality Traits: Conservative, Hard-Working, Fear Mutants, Has Faith in God, Hate Mutants, Obedient, Pious.

Typical Relationships: To family, to village, Member of Puritan Faith.

"Magic": Keeper magic not available to PCs at start of play.  Sorcerers and Healers both exist and many people have an innate magical gift or two.  These will be discussed as part of character generation.

Common Names: Same as today's names with some biblical names also thrown into the mix.

Third one.

QuoteExcerpted from the introduction to "An overview of Fourth Era cultures, a monograph by Annabel Courtley, New London University Press".

Few scholars today would deny that among the more interesting of the Fourth Era cultures was the puritan league, a loose conglomeration of city states united by a common religious hierarchy and a shared hostility to the new forms of society and indeed intelligence arising from the ruins of Third Era civilisation.

Before examining in detail the differing political structures of the puritan city states, it is important to understand the developmental context in which they arose. At this time the horse remained extinct throughout Europe, steel working techniques were insufficient to permit the crafting of reliable firearms and Third Era technology was exclusively in the hands of a priestly class which explained it as magic. This then is the puritan world, one in which the ox is the only means of land transport other than one's own feet, in which the crossbow is the most advanced weapon known to man and in which all knowledge is held by secretive priests disagreement with whom could easily mean exile or death.

Turning to...

[Excerpt ends.]

Wow, thanks for all that, Balbinus! It'll take me some time to look over it.

What have your experiences been in running and playing HQ?

QuoteThought I'd just sneak it into the discussion  

Hmmm. Well, the magic systems in HQ are notorious, because they're special-case ways to structure abilities, and with a few attached special rules (like the default 14 resistance).

Would you summarise a bit for me, because that stuff is really dense and hard to wade through. How do you envisage isho working in a game? Does every Muadra (and nobody else) have some? How many different effects does it have? Could you have one ability called 'Isho Manipulation' or do you think it needs splitting up? Is it just an augment?

Ultimately, you've got a better idea than me of the effects you want to achieve. In the Dark Ages game I junked a formal magic system and just told the players they were free to make up abilities that were 'magic'. Thus we got 'Speaking in Tongues'. Could that solution work for you, or do you want more structure?

I've run it once, using the setting from Warlords of Alexandria.  Two PCs, a technitos (wandering actor and entertainer) and a hoplite mercenary.

Firstly, mastery ain't, starting PCs are like first level D&D characters which the book did not make clear.  Part way into the game I had to add 10 to all the characters' traits as they kept failing at everything.  They were supposed to be experienced veterans, I hadn't realised from the book that a mastery did not represent that and that starting characters were closer to boys fresh off the farm.  The book does have advice somewhere buried in it for starting with experienced characters, find it and read it if that is an issue for you.

Otherwise, I did not like everything being a contested roll, personal taste issue, it just meant too much die rolling.

Other than that it worked well, particularly in that the climactic conflict of the game was when the technitos wanted to tell a story to the governor of the city and important guests, while a paid heckler tried to disrupt it.  It turned into a conflict as good as any combat could be, with it going back and forth as he told his story and the heckler disrupted it, when finally the player won by incorporating the final heckle into his story it was just as good as taking down a major foe in a mighty battle.  That was most cool.

I've played it a bit at cons, the highlight was when my meddling grandmother used her mastery in nagging to face down a raiding party by shaming them, awesome stuff.  Lowlights are when I've played it and the GM has called for extended contests when not really necessary or has made us use the bidding mechanic for augments even when we didn't especially want to.  It's a very abstract ruleset, you need to be careful when to use those elements.

Quote from: droogWould you summarise a bit for me, because that stuff is really dense and hard to wade through. How do you envisage isho working in a game? Does every Muadra (and nobody else) have some? How many different effects does it have? Could you have one ability called 'Isho Manipulation' or do you think it needs splitting up? Is it just an augment?

Ultimately, you've got a better idea than me of the effects you want to achieve.

Well from memory, Isho is the ambient energy that surrounds Jorune. Some creatures have the ability to manipulate isho and manifest it into spell like effects. The flavour of the system is that, isho use is based on the three (I think) different moons of Jorune. The Muadra are the only branch of humanity who can weild isho, although the others may resist the effects of "spells" targetted at them.

Isho manipulation was taught to the Muadra by the mysterious Shanta and the former used this skill to devastating effect during the racial wars of the setting. Hence currently they (the Muadra) are not really trusted by pure strain humans. The ability to use isho first manifest during puberty amongst the Muadra. If they don't learn to control it, their bodies discharge destructive bolts of near lethal energy. In major cities, there are special "kerning bays" for young Muadra to go, to, to expel the build up of isho.

One of the reasons I directed you, to that specific link, is that I like some of his ideas about Isho. I don't really want it to be , just another magic system, but rather something individualized and mysterious. Each Muadra should have his/her own way of expressing isho...

Regards,
David R

Quote from: BalbinusFirstly, mastery ain't, starting PCs are like first level D&D characters which the book did not make clear.  Part way into the game I had to add 10 to all the characters' traits as they kept failing at everything.

Another way of dealing with it would be to use lower ratings for the challenges.  I'll admit that one of my problems at first was scaling challenges, too.

!i!

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Quote from: KashellHeroquest looks really interesting, but for the "kick-in-the-door" style play, I think other systems would work alot better.

Certainly.  However, it lends itself very well to "kick-in-the-temple" style play very well (i.e. grand scale mythic/heroic questing).

!i!