I've recently been bit hard by the Glorantha bug and will soon be purchasing a schwack of the most recent Gloranta books.
Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes
Sartar Companion
Pavis: Gateway to Adventure
Guide to Glorantha 1
Guide to Glorantha 2
But I am not so sure about the RPG rules to go with it. I am a "Simulationist" at heart and can't stand "Narrativist" stuff for the most part. So in the sage opinion of the RPG Grognards assembled here do you think I should go with the Narrativist HeroQuest Glorantha (http://www.glorantha.com/product/heroquest-glorantha/) rules? Or stick with the more Simulationist RuneQuest 6E (http://www.glorantha.com/product/runequest-6th-edition/) ruleset? Or as a Grognard will I most likely find both rulesets to be to "Forge-Swine" for me?
I'm also waiting on the "13th Age Glorantha" as 13th Age is about as Narrativist as I care to get. But that book but that could be years away. And there is always the HERO system that could handle the heroic/epic power-levels and rules quite well I think.
RQ6 is getting a revision with built-in Gloranthan bits.
Quote from: Gwarh;850007But I am not so sure about the RPG rules to go with it. I am a "Simulationist" at heart and can't stand "Narrativist" stuff for the most part. So in the sage opinion of the RPG Grognards assembled here do you think I should go with the Narrativist HeroQuest Glorantha (http://www.glorantha.com/product/heroquest-glorantha/) rules? Or stick with the more Simulationist RuneQuest 6E (http://www.glorantha.com/product/runequest-6th-edition/) ruleset? Or as a Grognard will I most likely find both rulesets to be to "Forge-Swine" for me?
Heroquest does nothing for me. It's way too far toward the narrative of the line for me. While RQ6 isn't my favorite edition of RQ, it's a good edition and much easier for players to get their hands on than my favorite Chaosium RQ2. So I'd pick RQ6.
Between those two RQ6 is the easy choice given your criteria. But it's not optimised for Glorantha yet, and it won't be for another year or thereabouts. Whether you want to dive in now or wait depends on your willingness to adapt & make do.
It should be pretty easy if you have previously played RQ in Glorantha, because you'll be able to spot where in RQ6 the serial numbers were filed off. If you have access to MRQ2 you could also make comparisons.
Not sure if I would splurge so much if you're new to Glorantha, RQ & HQ.
First, RQ6 Essentials rules are free
http://www.thedesignmechanism.com/downloads.php
Download essentials and the free adventure, you decide.
Glorantha for RQ - theres a lot published, but not specifically for RQ6 yet. A good place to start might be one of the classica like Griffin Mountain or Borderlands.
http://www.glorantha.com/product-category/glorantha-classics/
Some conversion is needed to use stats and magic for RQ6. A useful place for RQ6 in Glorantha is
https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com
The RQ6 rules for Glorantha will be out sometime next year
Quote from: Gwarh;850007I've recently been bit hard by the Glorantha bug and will soon be purchasing a schwack of the most recent Gloranta books.
That is gratifying to hear!
Quote from: Gwarh;850007But I am not so sure about the RPG rules to go with it. I am a "Simulationist" at heart and can't stand "Narrativist" stuff for the most part. So in the sage opinion of the RPG Grognards assembled here do you think I should go with the Narrativist HeroQuest Glorantha (http://www.glorantha.com/product/heroquest-glorantha/) rules? Or stick with the more Simulationist RuneQuest 6E (http://www.glorantha.com/product/runequest-6th-edition/) ruleset? Or as a Grognard will I most likely find both rulesets to be to "Forge-Swine" for me?
I'm also waiting on the "13th Age Glorantha" as 13th Age is about as Narrativist as I care to get. But that book but that could be years away. And there is always the HERO system that could handle the heroic/epic power-levels and rules quite well I think.
All three rules systems appeal to different strokes for different folks, and have different strengths. 13G builds off the 13th Age system and wonderfully captures Gloranthan feel and color. RQ is the classic gritty Bronze Age, perfect for exploring the Big Rubble or Balazar. HQG best models the dream-logic of myth - where a warriors Deadly Sword can be countered by a Brilliant Smile. The best system for you is going to depend on how you plan to explore Glorantha.
The one plug I'd give for HQG is that for
right now it gives the best treatment of how to work Gloranthan themes (such as heroquesting) into a tabletop game, as well as gives plenty of game-related Gloranthan material.
That being said, 13G and RQ will both have similar treatments (although focusing on different specifics). But HQG is available now.
Jeff
HeroQuest is worth getting, as it opens up a new way of playing, with a strong narrative style. At the moment, I play RuneQuest with a healthy dose of ideas from HeroQuest.
As to which you should play, that entirely depends on what you like in a game. I'd pick up RuneQuest, when it comes out next year, with a view to mixing elements from HeroQuest Glorantha and RuneQuest.
From what you posted, you'll find HeroQuest total, complete Forge-Swine fare. Stick with RuneQuest.
However, using HeroQuest only when you're actually HeroQuesting does make sense and could be interesting.
Quote from: Gwarh;850007But I am not so sure about the RPG rules to go with it. I am a "Simulationist" at heart and can't stand "Narrativist" stuff for the most part. So in the sage opinion of the RPG Grognards assembled here do you think I should go with the Narrativist HeroQuest Glorantha (http://www.glorantha.com/product/heroquest-glorantha/) rules? Or stick with the more Simulationist RuneQuest 6E (http://www.glorantha.com/product/runequest-6th-edition/) ruleset? Or as a Grognard will I most likely find both rulesets to be to "Forge-Swine" for me?
With these prerequisites, you are probably going to enjoy Runequest a lot more than HeroQuest. Allthough one could make the argument that due to its cosmology and the adabtability of the world to the change of myths, Glorantha is inherently a 'narrative' setting, making a similarly 'narrrative' set of rules more appropriate and actually better at simulating the world than a classic 'simulationist' one.
On the other Hand, Runequest is a much more accessible, transparent und intuitive game, with mechanics that rarely feel (at least to me) as disruptive and disconnected from the in-game events they try to represent as most 'narrative' games I have played so far.
If I made the choice, which one of the systems I want to use, it would almost always be Runequest. Even though the idea to use HeroQuest as an alternative set of rules specifically for actual HeroQuests and to emulate the different realities of the Godsworld from the actual physical world seems like a pretty cool idea, despite the effectively redundant systems.
You already have a few books that use the Heroquest rules. You can grab the HQ core rulebook pdf for $10. Those are the generic HQ rules with a small bit of Glorantha in the back.
There was mention too of getting the RQ essentials pdf.
I have HeroQuest Glornatha, but just haven't gotten around to reading it. I've read HeroQuest Core and liked it.
I think both games have their merits, but it really seems you are answering your own question. It sounds like Runequest is what you are looking for.
Here's my completely unbiased, non-commercial reply.
Buy both HeroQuest Glorantha, RuneQuest Essentials (free, or pay what you want) and, when it's out, RuneQuest from Chaosium.
Here's why. HeroQuest Glorantha gives you a great introduction to the setting, history, cultures and cults. You can take or leave the system, but you will get a very good introduction and grounding in Glorantha.
RQ Essentials will showcase the RQ system and, you'll start to see, quite easily, how to make it work with the information in HeroQuest. It really isn't that difficult.
Then next year, having been bitten by the bug, you'll want Chaosium's RuneQuest because, as Jeff has said, it will tightly integrate RQ and Glorantha - and in a way that hasn't been done before. But you'll already be familiar with both setting and rules from your previous acquisitions, and will be ready to take the next steps into detailed Glorantha gaming.
Thank you for everyone's feedback and especially for Jeff Richard's input, I appreciate it.
I've read allot more reviews and grabbed the RQ6 freebie and it does seem the way I'd go, though I'm tempted to use the HERO engine or even the SCION rpg.
Either way I'll focus on the fluff for the time being then check out RQ7E (with it's Glorantha focus when it comes out.
Aargh Don't call it 7e as Loz and Pete will appear and beat you to death. It has no number it's purely Runequest published by Chaosium :-)
Quote from: Hermes Serpent;850435Aargh Don't call it 7e as Loz and Pete will appear and beat you to death. It has no number it's purely Runequest published by Chaosium :-)
At the risk of being mischievous, Chaosium's last email update says:
Quote from: Chaosium UpdateNext year will see a new edition of RuneQuest, written by Pete Nash, Lawrence Whitaker, and Jeff Richard, and once again firmly based in Glorantha.
So, even Chaosium are saying it is a new version. :p
I like games with some narrative elements like Fate or Cypher system but I found HeroQuest 2 to be way too narrative. So I doubt you would enjoy the mechanics of that system.
Heroquest Glorantha is fully and comprehensively narrativistic in its design.
It's written by Robin Laws and as such it's well written and meets its purpose. But if you loathe narrative-driven RPG, it most definitely won't work for you.
Quote from: Luca;850457But if you loathe narrative-driven RPG, it most definitely won't work for you.
Hero Wars and Hero Quest were my exposure to narrative games. I had no prior loathing. I found the rules barely comprehensible. Not because the rules were difficult per se, but because the rules gave me something I really didn't want or need and gave me almost nothing I really did want and need. Simplistically the rules have the players pick the skills used, the system tells them who succeeds and who fails and then leaves it up to the GM or players to figure out (narrate) how that success came about. That is totally ass backwards for what I want from the system. I don't need the system to tell me that Sigurd's Hammer of Foe Smashing 2W1 was defeated by Lacunae's Seven Winds Dance 3W. I can flip a coin or roll a six-sided die if that's all I need to figure out. I don't need a 100+ page rule book. If I buy a rule book, I want the system to output some results and to give me some freaking clue how that outcome might come about.
That void becomes more gaping the less similar the skills are. Sigurd's Hammer of Foe Smashing vs. Cúchulainn's Gáe Bolga Feat is (or seems to be) more or less a same/same confrontation. But Sigurd's Hammer of Foe Smashing vs Robin Hood's Split the Arrow...I want the system to output something more specific. In part, so I don't feel like were are all just sitting around making wacky shit up. If I want to just do that, I'll pull out some of my Rory's Story Cubes (https://www.storycubes.com/) and give them a throw..
Note: I can see how a system like Heroquest might fit the mythic sense and dream-like nonsense of some supernatural storybook-like place or a Heroquest path. I don't want the whole game to be let's tells stories about storybook places though.
Quote from: soltakss;850450So, even Chaosium are saying it is a new version. :p
Ah, so Runequest 4 at last. :D
Quote from: Bren;850462Hero Wars and Hero Quest were my exposure to narrative games. I had no prior loathing. I found the rules barely comprehensible. Not because the rules were difficult per se, but because the rules gave me something I really didn't want or need and gave me almost nothing I really did want and need. Simplistically the rules have the players pick the skills used, the system tells them who succeeds and who fails and then leaves it up to the GM or players to figure out (narrate) how that success came about.
Hero Wars unfortunately was cryptic, I agree. Hero Quest improved things and HQ:G is even better, especially if you plan to apply the system to Glorantha. This is because it has several examples of play in his text, so from this point of view it's easier to use than previous incarnations. Besides, of course, the explicit coupling of the system with the setting info.
Your description fits the system in a way, but I think you've it a bit backwards in terms of player-system interaction. What happens is that, in a given situation, the players want outcome X, the GM says the NPC (or obstacle or whatever) wants outcome Y, and you roll on a relevant skill to see who wins the contest. The thing is: if the use of the skill is obvious ("I'm using my Sword of Mythic Destruction to cleave him in half") there shouldn't be any problem in having an idea of what's happening. If the skill is not obviously relevant, on the other hand ("I use my Dance of Seduction to defeat the barbarian who's trying to cleave me in half") it falls to whomever is using that skill to explain how that is supposed to be relevant to the situation at hand.
Another thing to note is that you never roll for a single action. You tell the GM what your preferred outcome for the whole situation is ("I want to win the combat and slaughter everyone around") and the rolls are done to figure out whether you get to have your way or not. This is pretty common in narrativist systems, where the resolution tends to be at scene-level.
To avoid being accused of pitching it, though, I'll also note that I find the current editorial direction for the setting running opposite to my personal tastes. But then again, as far as I know this is common to all the new Gloranthan incarnations (HQ:G, RQ:G, and, if the info I read on TBP about the upcoming 13th Age Glorantha is true, in this last system it will be even more obvious) so it doesn't help you with your choice, I guess.
Quote from: soltakss;850450At the risk of being mischievous, Chaosium's last email update says:
So, even Chaosium are saying it is a new version. :p
As Chaosium's Lead Writer for RuneQuest, I can categorically state that they are mistaken. Steps, involving a large axe, are being taken.
Quote from: Loz;850478As Chaosium's Lead Writer for RuneQuest, I can categorically state that they are mistaken. Steps, involving a large axe, are being taken.
As long as you keep that axe away from RQ6, we're good.
Quote from: Loz;850478As Chaosium's Lead Writer for RuneQuest, I can categorically state that they are mistaken. Steps, involving a large axe, are being taken.
It sounds like it might be most accurate to state that Chaosium Runequest will be to RQ6 as
Champions 4E was to the
HERO System Rulesbook 4E--same rules, but added or different campaign material.
RQ6 would be the best for your taste based on info you gave. Gritty, best edition of RQ to date. it is quite easy to use RQ6 with Glorantha. Some views here https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/starting-a-glorantha-rq6-campaign-before-adventures-in-glorantha/ and RQ6 Encounter tool - see the side bar link on the same blog
The RQ Essentials document is totally amazing. When people think of a free or lite version of a game they often expect a crippled version across a few pages. The RuneQuest Essentials is 200 pages and is a amazing place to start.
It is though, very concerned with traditional RPG ideas. About succeeding at tasks and whether or not an individual sword stroke lands true. So if you want to do the mythic heroquesting thing it's going to take a good referee to figure it out. I personally prefer the adventures in Glorantha to the mythic heroquesting thing.
Quote from: NathanIW;850548The RQ Essentials document is totally amazing. When people think of a free or lite version of a game they often expect a crippled version across a few pages. The RuneQuest Essentials is 200 pages and is a amazing place to start.
It is though, very concerned with traditional RPG ideas. About succeeding at tasks and whether or not an individual sword stroke lands true. So if you want to do the mythic heroquesting thing it's going to take a good referee to figure it out. I personally prefer the adventures in Glorantha to the mythic heroquesting thing.
It is amazing. I think the authors have stated they created RQ Essentials along the same lines as the original RuneQuest 2 by Chaosium, ie. there's the same level of detail and depth in RQE as there was in RQ2. As far as heroquesting with RuneQuest goes, I think that's one of the things Chaosium RuneQuest is going to tackle, we'll see next year if they pull it off, no pressure on Pete Nash :p
Quote from: soltakss;850450So, even Chaosium are saying it is a new version. :p
Actually, the release you cited calls it a new
edition, not a new
version. As I understand normal publishing usage, a new edition can be something as small as fixing a few typos with no meaningful change to the content at all. Even if they just changed the publisher's logo, removed the "6" from the title, and left everything else alone, that would qualify as a new edition.
Quote from: Loz;850478As Chaosium's Lead Writer for RuneQuest, I can categorically state that they are mistaken. Steps, involving a large axe, are being taken.
Will this be posted to youtube? (Video or it didn't happen!)
Quote from: Bilharzia;850562As far as heroquesting with RuneQuest goes, I think that's one of the things Chaosium RuneQuest is going to tackle, we'll see next year if they pull it off, no pressure on Pete Nash :p
Sigh... No pressure, no pressure at all. :nono:
Quote from: Bilharzia;850562As far as heroquesting with RuneQuest goes, I think that's one of the things Chaosium RuneQuest is going to tackle, we'll see next year if they pull it off, no pressure on Pete Nash :p
I honestly don't know how important it is. Heroquesting apparently is really important to how the world can be changed and influenced, but I'm not sure what percentage of players and GMs will be interested in having a game about that. I see it as something you might get to some of the time. Though I suppose if there was a "how to start a campaign that is about heroquesting" approach right in the rules more people might be interested in that.
The only thing I'd say is that if Mr. Nash can make the tools he would want to use to support heroquesting in play then those who want to go that way will have them there. Or if the game is largely more about just having adventures in Glorantha without doing the mythic world changing it can remain an afterthought.
--
As for the general topic, I think a thing to bear in mind is that developing your own "MyGlorantha" is an important part of the process of gaming in the setting. In mine, for example, the Hero Wars that happen at the end of the 3rd age simply don't occur. The game is set right before them and what the player characters do is what matters.
Quote from: NathanIW;850755I honestly don't know how important it is. Heroquesting apparently is really important to how the world can be changed and influenced, but I'm not sure what percentage of players and GMs will be interested in having a game about that. I see it as something you might get to some of the time. Though I suppose if there was a "how to start a campaign that is about heroquesting" approach right in the rules more people might be interested in that.
The only thing I'd say is that if Mr. Nash can make the tools he would want to use to support heroquesting in play then those who want to go that way will have them there. Or if the game is largely more about just having adventures in Glorantha without doing the mythic world changing it can remain an afterthought..
For Glorantha, it is important and RuneQuest was originally going to support heroquesting in an expansion, which never came out, or ultimately - it turned into the Heroquest game system. There were bits and pieces over the years that put heroquesting into RQ but I dont remember how well much of that worked if at all. Of course right now HQ Glorantha has HQing built in. It will be interesting to see RQ walk a bit on mythic ground, and how that works out in play, you can see it in *ceremonies* back to Cults of Prax but RQ didnt usually represent it much further in the rules.
Quote from: Bilharzia;850795For Glorantha, it is important and RuneQuest was originally going to support heroquesting in an expansion, which never came out, or ultimately - it turned into the Heroquest game system. There were bits and pieces over the years that put heroquesting into RQ but I dont remember how well much of that worked if at all. Of course right now HQ Glorantha has HQing built in. It will be interesting to see RQ walk a bit on mythic ground, and how that works out in play, you can see it in *ceremonies* back to Cults of Prax but RQ didnt usually represent it much further in the rules.
I still recall with great pain a decade or so's worth of annual and semi-annual announcements from Chaosium that HeroQuest would be coming out
soon.
The ability to HeroQuest is important for several reasons. (This is my interpretation. What I say may have changed.)
1) As Biharzia mentioned religions include rituals that are ceremonial heroquests where the faithful imitate, replicate, and participate in the actions of their ancestral heroes and deities during the Godtime. This is a significant part of being an initiate or higher member of a religion so it is something one would expect nearly all PCs to participate in.
2) References to and examples of heroquests were published throughout the RQ2 period. As was mentioned, heroquests figured in the action for the parallel story by Biturian Vorash and a heroquest was used as a tie-in to the example character from RQ1, Ruric the Restless. I would certainly expect to see some integration of heroquest rituals.
3) Creative, rather than simply ritually imitative, Heroquesting would seem to be the natural end game for a Glorantha campaign. From what I understand of the culture and politics, powerful political figures will use heroquesting as a way of proving their power and legitimacy. So absent an ability to heroquest playing any kind of meaningful end game seems difficult at best.
4) And I want it in, dammit. ;)
Quote from: Bren;8508161) As Biharzia mentioned religions include rituals that are ceremonial heroquests where the faithful imitate, replicate, and participate in the actions of their ancestral heroes and deities during the Godtime. This is a significant part of being an initiate or higher member of a religion so it is something one would expect nearly all PCs to participate in.
This is the type of stuff I want in my game for sure. While I'm not a huge fan of games about symbolically making sweeping changes to the world through a mighty heroquest (even as an end game for a campaign), I totally love the idea of participation in a given cult's inner mysteries.
I've spent some time reading up on the elements that go into real world initiations and would love a chance to bring some of that to an RPG session about joining a given cult in Glorantha. If the rules end up doing anything like that, I'll be blown away.
As for the idea of heroquesting as a natural end game, I'm sort of like... okay... whatever. I guess I've just played in so many games where the world gets totally transformed by the actions of the player characters that doing it by heroquesting just seems shallow to me. I also roll my eyes at the God Learner stuff.
Which brings me to another point to consider for anyone new to Glorantha. You will find things you don't like about it. Things that perhaps rub you the wrong way, don't make any sense to you or otherwise just don't click with you. And it's okay. The world really is an awesome and huge variety of elements and it's not really fair to expect any given person to be ahuge fan of all of it. Your MyGlorantha can consist of all the elements you like and you can leave out the ones you don't and everything will be just fine and you'll have an awesome setting for your games.
If I wanted to play myth-Glorantha where the PCs are the likes of Harek Bearcloak and Jar-El the Razoress I would likely use 4e D&D! Runequest is for playing the ordinary Joe Schmoes, it's like playing in the world of The Iliad and your PC is one of the anonymous spear-carriers. The 'below decks' game can certainly be fun though.
I played HeroQuest/Wars and it totally sucked for me, not really an RPG at all. I'd avoid.
Buy a copy of RQ2 second hand on ebay and run that until RQ for Glorantha comes out from Chaosium and then switch, if you want to.
Quote from: NathanIW;850879As for the idea of heroquesting as a natural end game, I'm sort of like... okay... whatever. I guess I've just played in so many games where the world gets totally transformed by the actions of the player characters that doing it by heroquesting just seems shallow to me. I also roll my eyes at the God Learner stuff.
I didn't mean heroquesting as world changing, more heroquesting as incremental steps that might make your tribe's warriors more deadly or your cattle fatter and more fertile. I see it as part of PCs becoming tribal leaders. Such heroquests would make a big difference at the local level, a minor difference at the level of a Praxian clan or the Kingdom of Sarter, and virtually no difference at the world level.
Also, my experience is quite different than yours. I've played and run RPGs for over 40 years and I don't think I've ever been in a campaign about saving or changing the entire setting. Our aims have always been local or personal.
Personally, I think that HeroQuesting should be an integral part of every Gloranthan campaign, whatever the level.
You want to marry your childhood sweetheart? Perform the Orlanth Woos Ernalda quest.
You want to rescue some stolen herdbeasts? Perform Waha Frees the Herd Beats HeroQuest.
You want to beat up the local Yelmalian popinjay? Perform the Orlanthi part of the Hill of Gold HeroQuest.
HeroQuesting isn't always about world-changing events, but it is about changing things. Don't change the world, just change yourself, or your friends, or your clan.
Quote from: tzunder;850915Buy a copy of RQ2 second hand on ebay and run that until RQ for Glorantha comes out from Chaosium and then switch, if you want to.
Isn't Openquest a reasonable sub for RQ2? Unless I'm mistaken, it basically has all the parts except for using general hit points (à la Elric!) instead of locations. And it's more or less free to examine/try:
http://d101games.com/books/openquest/
Personally, I'm wondering how the Broo and other "problematic" aspects are going to be treated by The Inquisition.
Quote from: Gwarh;850368Thank you for everyone's feedback and especially for Jeff Richard's input, I appreciate it.
I've read allot more reviews and grabbed the RQ6 freebie and it does seem the way I'd go, though I'm tempted to use the HERO engine or even the SCION rpg.
Either way I'll focus on the fluff for the time being then check out RQ7E (with it's Glorantha focus when it comes out.
Thanks!
Gwarh - I'd check out the HQG PDF. Even if the HQ rules are not your cup of tea (and who knows - maybe you will enjoy them), how the rules discuss things like heroquesting, integrating Gloranthan themes into a game, and just the examples of play (which are drawn largely from our own house campaign) probably make the book worth checking out. But then again, I am biased.
Quote from: S'mon;850902If I wanted to play myth-Glorantha where the PCs are the likes of Harek Bearcloak and Jar-El the Razoress I would likely use 4e D&D! Runequest is for playing the ordinary Joe Schmoes, it's like playing in the world of The Iliad and your PC is one of the anonymous spear-carriers. The 'below decks' game can certainly be fun though.
I played HeroQuest/Wars and it totally sucked for me, not really an RPG at all. I'd avoid.
RQ 6 has Hero Points, which can be used to re-roll dice and absorb wounds, so it doesn't need to be quite as brutal on PCs as say early editions were. Still, if you can make it work with another system, go for it.
Quote from: CRKrueger;850995Personally, I'm wondering how the Broo and other "problematic" aspects are going to be treated by The Inquisition.
The inquistion that exists in your own mind.
Broos, like Ducks, are staying and haven't even been questioned by anyone. Just like Ropers and Mind Flayers in D&D.
The great thing about Glorantha these days is that it bypasses the sandbox political crybabying - if you have a political axe to grind and want to go hardcore sim, you have either RQ6 Essentials or can buy a copy of OpenQuest if for some reason you don't want to download a free copy of RQE. If you like a D20 flavored version, you can wait for 13th Age in Glorantha. If you're a dirty Storygame RPG hippie like me (who also does sim), you can buy a copy of HeroQuest Glorantha. Jeff Richards deftly bypassed this entire thing by making the GTG entirely systemless, with enough free resources available at Glorantha.com so that you don't even need to pony up the $50 for the PDFs (the $200 for the amazing books are worth it.) The maps even have hexes on them in the Argan Argar atlas, if you want to do a classic hexcrawl!
Glorantha happily endorses your flavor of gaming, and cares not your stance in the grog wars.
Quote from: Baulderstone;851044RQ 6 has Hero Points, which can be used to re-roll dice and absorb wounds, so it doesn't need to be quite as brutal on PCs as say early editions were. Still, if you can make it work with another system, go for it.
Don't forget Legend, which is relabelled MRQ2. It has MRQ2's progressive magic system, in case you want to do the entire Pavis/Big Rubble experience and narrative things like Hero Points offend your simulationist sandbox sensibilities (the Common Magic of MRQ2 emulates the old Chaosium RQ2 Battle Magic).
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;851247The inquistion that exists in your own mind.
Broos, like Ducks, are staying and haven't even been questioned by anyone. Just like Ropers and Mind Flayers in D&D.
Yet. RQ hasn't been tied to Glorantha for so long that there was nothing to pop up on Awfulpurple or Tumblr's radar. Wanna bet the Broo stays viewed as a Roper? I'm betting it becomes more of a Nibovian Wife.
Quote from: tzunder;850915Buy a copy of RQ2 second hand on ebay and run that until RQ for Glorantha comes out from Chaosium and then switch, if you want to.
I can't more highly recommend the Gloranthan Classics line, which are reprints of the original Chaosium material (Big Rubble, Borderlands, etc). I believe those can be printed POD through Drivethrough. Since now Moon Design is under the ownership of Chaosium and the rights have reverted to the original publisher, you'll be supporting the original publishers of Runequest! There's never been a better time to get back into one of the best old school settings. From what I understand, RQ6 Essentials or Legend can be adapted with very little effort, especially with the gloranthan cult one pagers (https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com/2014/05/11/gloranthan-cult-onepagers-main-page/)
Quote from: CRKrueger;851250Yet. RQ hasn't been tied to Glorantha for so long that there was nothing to pop up on Awfulpurple or Tumblr's radar. Wanna bet the Broo stays viewed as a Roper? I'm betting it becomes more of a Nibovian Wife.
Actually, incorrect. We in Glorantha fandom simply do not care. Also, unlike the Nibovian wife, Broos are enemies of the universe who are to be universally destroyed. They're enemy monsters, things of chaos, who all right thinking people will kill and will burn the bodies (indeed, that's standard procedure when dealing with Broos.) It's like saying there shouldn't be demons in D&D.
Also, RQ has been the system of Glorantha since
the beginning, 1979 (RQ1). Do your research and get your facts straight.
Glorantha fandom has been quite visible on Tumblr for some time now. (http://glorantha.tumblr.com/)
Your fantasies of being persecuted by SJWs are somewhat misplaced, at least as far as Glorantha fandom are concerned.
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;851252Actually, incorrect. We in Glorantha fandom simply do not care. Also, unlike the Nibovian wife, Broos are enemies of the universe who are to be universally destroyed. They're enemy monsters, things of chaos, who all right thinking people will kill and will burn the bodies (indeed, that's standard procedure when dealing with Broos.) It's like saying there shouldn't be demons in D&D.
Also, RQ has been the system of Glorantha since the beginning, 1979 (RQ1). Do your research and get your facts straight.
Glorantha fandom has been quite visible on Tumblr for some time now. (http://glorantha.tumblr.com/)
Your fantasies of being persecuted by SJWs are somewhat misplaced, at least as far as Glorantha fandom are concerned.
Facts? RQ3 and RQ6 otherwise known as the current version aren't set in Glorantha.
But, there's a reason I used the word Inquisition, and it didn't have anything to do with the actual logic behind anything Glorantha. The only fact that matters is Broo=Rape, let the circus begin. Glorantha's been around a long time, it's tied through HeroQuest to the names of the Right People, like Laws, so it might slip under the radar, who knows. Keep clicking your heels and thinking good thoughts Porky, it might slide by. It might not. Nobody expects the Inquisition.
Quote from: CRKrueger;851261Facts? RQ3 and RQ6 otherwise known as the current version aren't set in Glorantha.
But, there's a reason I used the word Inquisition, and it didn't have anything to do with the actual logic behind anything Glorantha. The only fact that matters is Broo=Rape, let the circus begin. Glorantha's been around a long time, it's tied through HeroQuest to the names of the Right People, like Laws, so it might slip under the radar, who knows. Keep clicking your heels and thinking good thoughts Porky, it might slide by. It might not. Nobody expects the Inquisition.
You obviously do, you brought them up in your fevered desire to be persecuted!
Actually, yes it is. Read the rules and look at the runes, which are explicitly Gloranthan. Ask any gamer who has been in the hobby for longer than 5 years and who knows about Glorantha, and they'll say "RuneQuest", after they say, "the game with the Ducks."
Obviously, you do! I'll wait for your links from offended SJWs. We here in Glorantha fandom won't. Also, look in the back of your RQ3 book for the big fucking Glorantha chapter, and talk to nearly anyone who played RQ3 back in the day. While you were playing Forgotten Realms, we were playing Glorantha. Also, look at most of the RQ3 product released by Avalon Hill. RQ=Glorantha, Glorantha=RQ, as far as fandom is concerned. Go over to BRP central and see them freak the fuck out when Stafford announced that Moon Design was merging back into Chaosium and that Adventures In Glorantha was going to be published in house. Runequest has *always* been Glorantha.
Oink oink!
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;851251Since now Moon Design is under the ownership of Chaosium...
Really? That was not my understanding.
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;851274Runequest has *always* been Glorantha.
Really? Where is the Glorantha section in RQ6? My book seems to be missing it... all it talks about as a setting is this 'Meeros' place... is that area part of Glorantha?
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;851252Actually, incorrect. We in Glorantha fandom simply do not care. Also, unlike the Nibovian wife, Broos are enemies of the universe who are to be universally destroyed. They're enemy monsters, things of chaos, who all right thinking people will kill and will burn the bodies (indeed, that's standard procedure when dealing with Broos.) It's like saying there shouldn't be demons in D&D.
True, in general people who play in Glorantha either don't mind broo behaviour don't describe bro behaviour or play broos as disease-ridden killers and leave the unsavoury bits behind.
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;851252Also, RQ has been the system of Glorantha since the beginning, 1979 (RQ1). Do your research and get your facts straight.
Well, RQ3 had a default setting of Alternate Earth as well as a Gloranthan setting. RQ6 has not produced any Gloranthan material, so uses non-Gloranthan settings.
Mongoose's RQs used Second Age Glorantha with varied success. RQ2 was all Glorantha, with a bit of Questworld, the new RuneQuest will be Glorantha again.
It is complex.
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;851252Your fantasies of being persecuted by SJWs are somewhat misplaced, at least as far as Glorantha fandom are concerned.
I've never been persecuted by anyone and have been playing in Glorantha for an awfully long time.
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;851274Runequest has *always* been Glorantha.
I know a lot of people who play RuneQuest and wouldn't touch Glorantha with a bargepole.
Quote from: soltakss;851312I know a lot of people who play RuneQuest and wouldn't touch Glorantha with a bargepole.
I loved RQ2 but That didn't carry over to the setting, I'm not sure why.
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;851252It's like saying there shouldn't be demons in D&D.
Thankfully, nobody has ever even considered removing demons from D&D. ;)
Quote from: CRKrueger;851250Yet. RQ hasn't been tied to Glorantha for so long that there was nothing to pop up on Awfulpurple or Tumblr's radar. Wanna bet the Broo stays viewed as a Roper? I'm betting it becomes more of a Nibovian Wife.
The practical difference between an actual SJW coming into this thread and being offended by broos and you coming into this thread to get hysterical about the idea that SJW might be offended by broos is nil.
Seriously, what is your goal here? I can think of dozens of things in RPG books within reach that are "problematic". I could make a list and post them online asking why the outrage patrol is isn't going after them. I don't, because it seems the outcome would either be complete indifference, or my list helps light some outrage torches.
Not being much of a Glorantha fan I've gone decades without knowing much about what the Broo were up to... just seeing them as foul and stinky beastmen, carriers of disease. I did, however, always assume the Chaos forces in Warhammer were probably a bit rapey.
Quote from: Simlasa;851358Not being much of a Glorantha fan I've gone decades without knowing much about what the Broo were up to... just seeing them as foul and stinky beastmen, carriers of disease. I did, however, always assume the Chaos forces in Warhammer were probably a bit rapey.
Broos are more than a bit rapey.
Quote from: Bren;851446Broos are more than a bit rapey.
Actually, as far as I know, the depictions of Broos has changed slightly. They are more about raping/infecting livestock than actual people, and in the more recent description of them, this is explicitly mentioned.
Nonetheless, I have always considered Broos to be like the least 'problematic' humanoids that mostly exist to be killed by player characters. With their deliberate engagement in biological warfare, their very alien culture and a reproduction cycle that is effectively based on viruses, they are so strictly separated from any actual living being (and sufficiently evil), that they clearly lack any analogue and solely exists as a fictional element in a fictional universe.
Quote from: Bren;851446Broos are more than a bit rapey.
Apparently, that's what's been dawning on me.
And diseases, Broo tend to be a major disease vector...and the Chaos, lot of that too.
I actually like that Broos can impregnate any animal (or at least mammals). It makes them a threat to a community's survival in more ways than one. They'll put disease in your wells, destroy your livestock in order to reproduce and then hunt your survivors down one by one as a pack.
Quote from: NathanIW;851659I actually like that Broos can impregnate any animal (or at least mammals).
That IS a nasty detail... kind of like the creature from Alien.
Where is that written? Somehow I either glossed over it or never owned whatever Glorantha sourcebook spells it out.
Quote from: NathanIW;851659I actually like that Broos can impregnate any animal (or at least mammals). It makes them a threat to a community's survival in more ways than one. They'll put disease in your wells, destroy your livestock in order to reproduce and then hunt your survivors down one by one as a pack.
More than just any mammal - any animal. Regardless of gender (males raped by broo end up being impregnated by them). And there's stories that the Chaotic fecundity of broo can even corrupt stone or plants. Broos corrupt and pervert life through rape and disease. They are simply horrific abominations - their existence is a big part of the reason why the Storm Bull cult is beloved in many areas.
My most run RQ Glorantha one shot is Heortling Storm Bull devotees finding (and often destroying) a broo infestation for Bellow Day. Young warriors that need to kill their first chaos creature and tell the tale at the festivities or be exiled for a year.
For anyone interested, if I could recommend another resource for Glorantha it would be the HeroQuest Voices series. It really does a great job communicating what the people are like.
http://www.glorantha.com/docs/heroquest-voices/
Quote from: Simlasa;851662That IS a nasty detail... kind of like the creature from Alien.
Where is that written? Somehow I either glossed over it or never owned whatever Glorantha sourcebook spells it out.
Borderlands might have it in their Broo section. RQ2 Broos probably had it right from the start. When we played RQ2 we didn't have Borderlands and played broos with their unpleasant behaviours.
The description of their behaviour is in Borderlands but is less rapey and more sort of Alien-like. It talks of the Broo keeping flocks of sheep to reproduce and infecting livestock held by local tribes for the same reason. It mentions their hemaphrodity (is that a word) and implies that they will mate with anything living.
Quote from: richaje;851663They are simply horrific abominations - their existence is a big part of the reason why the Storm Bull cult is [strike]beloved[/strike] tolerated in many areas.
Fixed that for you. ;)
Quote from: Baulderstone;851352Thankfully, nobody has ever even considered removing demons from D&D. ;)
Ah, so you know gaming history, just have learned nothing from it. Good to know. :D
Quote from: Baulderstone;851352an actual SJW coming into this thread...
Anyone coming into this thread to debate the issue or not is immaterial to the original point. Obviously.
Quote from: Baulderstone;851352Seriously, what is your goal here?
What's yours? Since it's an online forum, I assume they are the same, to post a (statement, question, argument, idea, etc...do I need to go on?)
Quote from: Baulderstone;851352I can think of dozens of things in RPG books within reach that are "problematic".
True, every one of them potentially being a Glorantha/RQ book. :D I loves me some RQ, but...
- You have a signature monster that's 500 times more problematic than the obscure Nibovian Wife.
- You have thousands of pages of beautifully written, meticulously researched and designed realistic cultural information that contains nuggets like “Man and woman, axe and cookpot." (Yeah that'll go over well and be considered properly in context on awfulpurple...I'm sure of it. :rolleyes:)
I could go on, and on, and on, but what it comes down to is...
1. RQ is an old game, not a lot of Tumblrinas playing it, and thanks to the Cult of Laws and HeroQuest, when they have heard of it
at all, it's "cool".
2. The last two versions of RQ tied to Glorantha were published by Mongoose, not a favorite publisher of the SJW crowd.
3. The current, well-received, "highest Buzz in years" version of RQ is RQ6, divorced from Glorantha.
What this means is, in IT terms, Glorantha's defense against criticism from the New Inquisition rests solely on
"Security through Obscurity", or cognitive dissonance. Basically, you're just waiting for the wrong pearl-clutching screecher to hit the fainting couch and then Glorantha becomes the next Thundering Plains on Change.org.
If it doesn't, well then Obscurity will no longer be a reason, so we're left with Cognitive Dissonance. We'll get some idea then of how much of this is truly due to the message as opposed to the messenger and how much of it is just the intarwebz reason for anything - "Ooh Shiny." In any case, I'll be over here eating popcorn.
In the meantime, if you don't like it, tell me to go fuck myself and I'll tell you the same.
I think you need to distinguish between Kaiu Keiichi being a dumbass, which is simply an immutable law of the universe (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=631750), and seeing SJWs hiding under the bed.
Quote from: CRKrueger;851955...drama-llama-ing...
The more you go on about this the more you sound like a 9/11 Truther. RuneQuest has been through this stuff, uglier than anything you have written about.
It's frankly embarrassing to see, this stuff coming out of someone who is presumably beyond their teens/early 20s.
It would be fair to start a separate thread on comparing how & why different games have been targeted, but to bring it up in thread after thread (this and the galactic command one, not sure if others) is unnecessary.
Quote from: The Butcher;850013RQ6 is getting a revision with built-in Gloranthan bits.
May I ask...why?
Quote from: Mostlyjoe;852092May I ask...why?
http://designmechanism.freeforums.org/chaosium-design-mechanism-and-runequest-statement-t1220.html
Quote from: Loz1. RuneQuest reverts to Chaosium.
2. Pete and myself will become the new lead writers for RuneQuest as a Chaosium brand line with specific responsibilities for developing the system and its supplements.
3. The Design Mechanism as a company will continue. Chaosium and Design Mechanism have signed a new contract whereby we can continue to write, produce and distribute our own RuneQuest supplements, and can continue to support the lines we have already started to develop.
4. The RuneQuest 6 mechanics remain the core of the system, but as the trademark is now held by Chaosium, we have been contracted to develop a new version of the game based in Glorantha called, simply, 'RuneQuest'. This game will appear in July 2016 (or possibly earlier). This new version will roll together all the work we have done on 'Adventures in Glorantha' into a standalone RuneQuest game.
5. At that point, RuneQuest 6 will go out of print as its own title. Design Mechanism will find ways of ensuring full compatibility across our supplements, the new version and RQ6.
6. Effectively immediately, Chaosium will sell Design Mechanism's existing (and future) books through its various channels. Indeed, this increases Design Mechanism's exposure, extends its reach and removes a huge administrative burden from the shoulders of a two-man team.
Quote from: Arminius;851967I think you need to distinguish between Kaiu Keiichi being a dumbass, which is simply an immutable law of the universe (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=631750), and seeing SJWs hiding under the bed.
My original statement was, I wondered how Broo and other problematic elements of RQ were going be treated by the Inquisition.
I didn't say the British were coming.
I didn't suggest Stafford do a rewrite.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with Glorantha.
Glorantha was, however, mostly written before the parent's of today's college kids were old enough to conceive them. It comes from a pre-PC, pre-GG, pre-SJW time and is written to a depth and maturity not capable of being twitterized.
You're right, Porky is Porky. Not sure exactly where you and Bilharzia are coming from with the child metaphors (thinking a skim rather than following each argument to see the context is probably B's reason, which when you think about it, is kind of ironic).
But if for some strange reason you must portray me as "The Boy Who's Crying Wolf" then I'll portray you as "The Boy Who Claims Wolves Don't Exist Because He Doesn't Like Thinking About Them".
Preferably though, we can just discuss things.
You can check out D100IISRD, downloadable in .doc format from dreamscapedesign.net -- a 'retro-clone' (via Mongoose RQ1) of the Chaosium 2nd ed. of RQ. If you like that, then you should be able to use it straight with the Gloranthan Classics reprint material.
Quote from: NathanIW;850755I honestly don't know how important it is. Heroquesting apparently is really important to how the world can be changed and influenced, but I'm not sure what percentage of players and GMs will be interested in having a game about that. I see it as something you might get to some of the time. Though I suppose if there was a "how to start a campaign that is about heroquesting" approach right in the rules more people might be interested in that.
The only thing I'd say is that if Mr. Nash can make the tools he would want to use to support heroquesting in play then those who want to go that way will have them there. Or if the game is largely more about just having adventures in Glorantha without doing the mythic world changing it can remain an afterthought.
--
As for the general topic, I think a thing to bear in mind is that developing your own "MyGlorantha" is an important part of the process of gaming in the setting. In mine, for example, the Hero Wars that happen at the end of the 3rd age simply don't occur. The game is set right before them and what the player characters do is what matters.
In the years when HeroQuest was in limbo, folks came up with various ways to run heroquests that riffed on the RQ game systems.
When I got Hero Wars (1st ed.), I felt like there was too much information. I had worked up my own concept of Dragon Pass and vicinity from the background in White Bear and Red Moon, RuneQuest and Cults of Prax. Mainly it was William Church's maps that inspired me! Maybe there's something about the personal investment.
Griffin Mountain (depicting Balazar and the Elder Wilds) was just right, IMO still the gold standard of published campaign scenarios.
Quote from: Phillip;852200When I got Hero Wars (1st ed.), I felt like there was too much information. I had worked up my own concept of Dragon Pass and vicinity from the background in White Bear and Red Moon, RuneQuest and Cults of Prax. Mainly it was William Church's maps that inspired me! Maybe there's something about the personal investment.
Griffin Mountain (depicting Balazar and the Elder Wilds) was just right, IMO still the gold standard of published campaign scenarios.
William Church's maps were the bomb. And
"Griffin Mountain is the gold standard for sandboxy campaign scenarios. Anyone that tells you any different is trying to sell you something."
Quote from: CRKrueger;852181Preferably though, we can just discuss things.
I got no problem with that. Just feel it became a derail and frankly that was the only trajectory it could take if it went anywhere at all. As I wrote above, another thread would be fine.
I always found ogres far worse than broo. Broo are more like the Alien, before there was an Alien - nasty and icky and nojustno, but Alien and so harder to connect with. Ogres live in your village and they are doing it with your wife, your mother, and your daughter. And their bastards are going to eat you.
Quote from: Phillip;852198You can check out D100IISRD, downloadable in .doc format from dreamscapedesign.net -- a 'retro-clone' (via Mongoose RQ1) of the Chaosium 2nd ed. of RQ. If you like that, then you should be able to use it straight with the Gloranthan Classics reprint material.
Always worth checking out! :D
In what mythology, game, or fiction do ogres do that?
Quote from: Phillip;852200Griffin Mountain (depicting Balazar and the Elder Wilds) was just right, IMO still the gold standard of published campaign scenarios.
I ran a Balazaring campaign using just RQ2, Griffin Mountain and the two 'Cults of' books. It was cool except for the layout of Griffin Mountain. I found it super hard to find anything. In frustration I set myself a thirty second page flipping limitation. If I didn't find what I was looking for during that time, I just made it up, wrote it down and then figured out how what I made up worked with the larger setting later. So I ended up with a MyGriffinMountain. The amount I had to make up diminished as I became familiar with the book and either knew where to look or knew the info, but the first three sessions were rough.
I also learned that premade campaign settings were best seen as jumping off points in my games. I dislike trying to "get it right" as a priority when either GMing or playing. I don't know how much other Glorantha fans would enjoy my games given that I might replace or modify something they consider essential.
Quote from: Arminius;852229In what mythology, game, or fiction do ogres do that?
I've heard reports that Paizo's ogres have something of that element to them, but that's secondhand and could be garbled information.
Quote from: Arminius;852229In what mythology, game, or fiction do ogres do that?
Glorantha. They were included in the basic rules for RQ2 (and I think RQ1). Stronger and more attractive than normal humans, they lived a hidden, cuckoo like existence, to blend with the humans...who they found quite tasty.
Quote from: NathanIW;852237I ran a Balazaring campaign using just RQ2, Griffin Mountain and the two 'Cults of' books. It was cool except for the layout of Griffin Mountain. I found it super hard to find anything.
That's interesting. I've not heard that before. Other than Blue Face the Shaman (who hardly ever came up anyway) everything seemed located in an order that made sense to me. While there were a couple of pages, like the calendar, weather, and encounter table that I copied to have extra handy, I never found it difficult to find the other stuff and the index worked well for me.
The RQ Ogres sound a bit like the Genestealers in 40K... which are also based on Alien.
Generally Ogres in mainstream fantasy seem to have gotten watered down into lesser giants... big dumb thugs but often with a heart of gold... that vs. being a metaphor for all the worst capabilities of men rolled up in a ball of lust, hunger and brutality.
Mr. M seems to have parallel evolved the RQ monster: http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2011/04/o-is-for-ogres.html
Quote from: Arminius;852229In what mythology, game, or fiction do ogres do that?
According to the RuneQuest creature book of yesteryear I own, the RQ ogres are based on Cornish myths. However, the traditional fairy tale ogres of French origin are not that different from humans anyway; they are basically just big, mean, anthropohagous human(oid)s.
The big dumb brute ogres seem to be a genuine D&D-ism that has been transfered into other settings.
I always loved the RuneQuest ogres. They reminded me of spiders mimicking ants or similar disguised predators, just with YOU (or at least, someone like you) as the prey. Similarly to vampires, but without the rubbish baggage that term has accumulatd in the last three decades or so.
Quote from: Arminius;852229In what mythology, game, or fiction do ogres do that?
Gloranthan ogres look human but are chaotic creatures branched off from humanity. They carry a chaotic taint and have some physical differences - beauty, sharp teeth, strength, a taste for human flesh. See Gaumata's Vision in Shadows on the Borderland for some ogre-ish escapades.
Thanks, all. That stuff was either missing in RQ2/3 core (the editions with which I'm most familiar) or I plain missed it. Am more used to ogres, not as Shrek per se, but as human-eating giants without any other major canonical details.
Quote from: Simlasa;852254The RQ Ogres sound a bit like the Genestealers in 40K... which are also based on Alien.
The reproduction is a little bit like Alien, though RQ came out in 1978, Alien in 1979, and 40K way later.
Quote from: Arminius;852302Thanks, all. That stuff was either missing in RQ2/3 core (the editions with which I'm most familiar) or I plain missed it. Am more used to ogres, not as Shrek per se, but as human-eating giants without any other major canonical details.
It's in RQ2. You must have missed it. It's under "O" ;)
Quote from: Arminius;852302Thanks, all. That stuff was either missing in RQ2/3 core (the editions with which I'm most familiar) or I plain missed it. Am more used to ogres, not as Shrek per se, but as human-eating giants without any other major canonical details.
RQ2 had them in the core rules. RQ3 had them in an excellent supplement, the name of which escapes me. I am sure someone will fill in the gap.
Quote from: Bren;852396The reproduction is a little bit like Alien, though RQ came out in 1978, Alien in 1979, and 40K way later.
Oh, I wasn't thinking RQ was borrowing from Alien or visa versa... just other examples of that cuckoo tactic.
I'm another who missed the finer points of ogres in RQ2.
I went and looked at broo in the book and the description doesn't spell it out enough where my teenage Baptist mind would have made the connection, "Oh! They'll fuck anything... and anything they fuck will birth more broo!"
I did notice that the rules mention broo Hirelings and PCs...
Quote from: Bren;852396The reproduction is a little bit like Alien, though RQ came out in 1978, Alien in 1979, and 40K way later.
It's in RQ2. You must have missed it. It's under "O" ;)
I just mentioned this in another thread, but the RQ core has nothing about Broo reproduction. The earliest source I can find on that is
Borderlands from 1981.
Quote from: Baulderstone;852460I just mentioned this in another thread, but the RQ core has nothing about Broo reproduction. The earliest source I can find on that is Borderlands from 1981.
I'm going by what other folks have mentioned in this thread... I wasn't aware of it till just recently.
As for Broo as adventurers... I addressed that, I thought I saw it in RQ2 but it is in RQ3's Creature book. The listing there does suggest broo doing very bad things but doesn't get specific.
Maybe in our softer and gentler era the Broo will get a Shrek-like retcon when the new Runequest book comes out... they'll smell better and just want hugs.
Quote from: Simlasa;852447I'm another who missed the finer points of ogres in RQ2.
I went and looked at broo in the book and the description doesn't spell it out enough where my teenage Baptist mind would have made the connection, "Oh! They'll fuck anything... and anything they fuck will birth more broo!"
I did notice that the rules mention broo Hirelings and PCs...
As far as I can recall, nothing was spelled out in supplements until Borderlands. There might have been something in Wyrms Footnotes, but I don't recall any articles. I believe the original write up of Broo in the boardgame Nomad Gods, which predates RQ1, linked them to the chaos gods Mallia and Thed, so disease and fertility (of a sort) goddesses, so the inference was made, but you had to put the pieces together.
Of course Nomad Gods makes it clear that the Praxian tribes will ally with chaos forces so the relations in Glorantha between law and chaos are a bit more complicated in practice than they might appear in theory. Much like the way that Chirine describes the stability and change pantheons in the Tekumel related thread.
The setting has been codified as recently as last year in the huge and quite elaborate Guide to Glorantha. And thus, the current description of broos has it all: fornication with lifestock, monstrous fertility, and so on (including the terrible rumour of an allosauruss broo). I think it is quite unlikely that this description is changed, and for a good reason: Broo are sufficiently evil creatures. Unlike D&D-style orcs (for example) who do not differ that much from anybody's actual ancestors if you look back far enough, Broo are inherently monstrous. And yet, they are not beyond redemption. There are peaceful, altruisitic broo. In total, Glorantha's broo are one of the best designed monstrous species in this particular niche.
Also, this is Glorantha. Where the anthropomorphic ducks are dead serious, and trolls eating humans and their own cursed children are the comic relief.
Where are the good guy Broo? Anyplace outside of the Guide?
Quote from: Arminius;852495Where are the good guy Broo? Anyplace outside of the Guide?
I assume RQ3 having a sidebar about Broo PCs implies they can be played as something other than straight up evil rapists... because why would anyone want to play such a nasty thing otherwise?
Quote from: Arminius;852495Where are the good guy Broo? Anyplace outside of the Guide?
Quote from: Elder Secrets of GloranthaEven the famed wild healerof the Rockwood Mountains, [a Broo] who has joined the peaceful Chalana Arroy cult, is regularly hunted whenever sighted, even though he has saved many lives, resurrected good folk and bestowed blessings on strangers.
The text in the guide to Glorantha is pretty much the same, and I think that this character appears in one of the classic adventures as well. It stands to reason that if a human can be corrupted to the worship of chaos, a broo can be "corrupted" to a more harmonious lifestyle, even if this is not socially acknowledged.
Quote from: Simlasa;852501I assume RQ3 having a sidebar about Broo PCs implies they can be played as something other than straight up evil rapists... because why would anyone want to play such a nasty thing otherwise?
Runequest basically assumes that you can play pretty much anything, as long as the gamemaster agrees and you find a way how to do it. Can you come up with a group-compatible character concept that happens to be a broo? Can you live with being dreaded and hunted by the very people you want to save or protect? Congratulations, you are a broo. There are certainly worse character concepts than "monster looking for redemption", but admittedly, there aren't many tips how to play a sociable broo character in any of the sources I know.
I personally wouldn't want one in any of my groups (because I cannot think of another tolerable concept for a broo besides the redeemer and that might get old quite fast), but I understand why characters like Broo greatly benefit from a PC equivalent character creation system, if only to have individual broo with individual strengths and weaknesses.
Quote from: Arminius;852495Where are the good guy Broo? Anyplace outside of the Guide?
The Dorastor supplement for RQ3 had stats for Ralzakark. I wouldn't describe him as a good guy, but he isn't a typical broo. Among other things, he is a king.
There is also supposed to be a broo who is a healer and a follower of Chalana Arroy (http://glorantha.wikia.com/wiki/Wild_Healer_of_the_Rockwoods).
Quote from: Bren;852525The Dorastor supplement for RQ3 had stats for Ralzakark. I wouldn't describe him as a good guy, but he isn't a typical broo. Among other things, he is a king.
There is also supposed to be a broo who is a healer and a follower of Chalana Arroy (http://glorantha.wikia.com/wiki/Wild_Healer_of_the_Rockwoods).
Wasn't there also a stegosaurus-broo in there? I'm not certain, but I have the impression that he was at least neutral.
Quote from: Vile;852555Wasn't there also a stegosaurus-broo in there? I'm not certain, but I have the impression that he was at least neutral.
I don't recall. Though I own Dorastor, I only skimmed it as it was soon apparent that it wouldn't 't fit in any sort of campaign I could see running.
Quote from: Arminius;852495Where are the good guy Broo? Anyplace outside of the Guide?
In Dorastor.
The Wild Healer of the Rockwoods is a Chalana Arroy Healer who is also a broo and shows up on Sense Chaos.
Ralzakark is a good-guy broo, very helpful and friendly, trades with the Lunars and accepts anyone into his court as guests.
Arrgh, scooped by Bren.
The Castrati are a legion of castrated broo who worship Humakt and live for fighting and honour because, well, as castrated broos, they haven't got much else to live for.
There is a mention in the RQ Companion of a town north of Valind's Glacier where they people are never hungry, never thirsty, never tired or sick and live in harmony, but are all broos.