TheRPGSite

First time poster. So please be kind.

I'm getting back into RPGs having last dabbled over a decade ago.  I recently purchased Dr. Who: AITAS, Terra Primate, and DC Adventures.  

Gaming background:
I started RPGs with Palladium books, specifically Robotech and Rifts, then moved onto World of Darkness.  Few times I've played D&D (one adventure of AD&D 2E, and two sessions of D&D 3E) and it's not my kind of game.  I've also played L5R 1E on several occasions and I found it enjoyable and fondly recall a Shadowrun campaign that was my best experience as a player, credit to the GM.

The first book I've ever bought was GURPS, don't recall which edition, because I loved the idea of a system where I can play any setting or type of genre possible but it didn't do it for me.

Which leads to my question...I'm looking for a system in which I can do what GURPS does and would like suggestions from all here.

No disrespect to GURPS but not GURPS.

I don't like static levels like Palladium and D&D.

Many posts mention that superhero game like DCAdv (M&M) can do it but I'm looking for something different.

Savage Worlds also interested me but the criticisms I hear is that it doesn't do well at higher power levels.  I might be wrong and if so please inform me.

Unisystem as I know it from Terra Primate and from what I've read seems like it might do the trick from lower levels like Buffy to higher levels like Armageddon.  I read about Beyond Human and if it ever comes out it might be just exactly the system I'm looking for though I have never used Unisystem.  

I read reviews of BESM (Tri-Stat?) because I felt anime does it all but can't get over the fact that it's only 3 stats.

Not interested in older systems like Basic or Hero System and interested in a newer system.  Last I played was back in 99, maybe?  So something after that.  I like the way game systems are going from what I've read online.

And if anyone suggests a homebrew (I'm assuming that means my own system) I am not good enough to do that from the ground up but understanding that no system is perfect I'm sure that I am going to have house rules to any system I choose from your suggestions.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted the suggestions to not go all over the place and let it be known somewhat clearly of at least what I am not looking for and understand that I will have to have to houserule things.

In a sense I am looking for a system where in one campaign I can do street level heroes and in the next campaign I can do giant mecha or supermen being gods in a futuristic earth, or a mixture of both or whatever.  

Thanks

oh and I also like to stick with a major publication if possible.  I understand that there are a lot of good indy rpgs and some of their systems can probably be universal but it's another weird restriction of mine.

There's the narrativey games like Fate, which you might like; they've influenced a lot of more recent game designs, and are pretty versatile in what they do; you need to get into the way of thinking, though. There are variants of the system's guts all the way up and down the power scale; I'd suggest looking at the Fate Core (http://www.faterpg.com/2013/the-new-era-of-fate-is-here/) book, which I think is the most recent core version, but there are a lot of other games out there using versions of it, for example Atomic Robo (Adventure scientists fight evil, using SCIENCE!!!) or Icons (Essentially a rules update of Marvel Super Heroes).

Shadowrun has dissolved into a self-absorbed pile of defective wank. If you didn't like modern D&D's, you won't like it. On the upside, lots of older edition Shadowrun is available from DTRPG (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse.php?cPath=6360).

L5R is apparantly doing fine. Haven't ever played it.

For Unisystem, there's a game called All Flesh Must Be Eaten (Zombie game), which has received all the Unisystem rules attention for the last decade, so that's a good place to go for stuff if you like that system. The "licensed" games use a different version of Unisystem to the "generic" games, and the two aren't really compatible.

I know a Savage Worlds group who are apparently playing at high levels and perfectly happy with it, but I'm not in that game.

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789229In a sense I am looking for a system where in one campaign I can do street level heroes and in the next campaign I can do giant mecha or supermen being gods in a futuristic earth, or a mixture of both or whatever.  

I think Savage Worlds is going to be your best fit tbh.

Mutants and Masterminds might also be a good contender, but you have already ruled that out.

Savage Worlds fits your bill best indeed. The explorer's version of the MRB can be had in print for just $10, and you can snatch conversions for free from SavageHeroes.com (http://savageheroes.com/) to see the possibilities of the system.

There is also the venerable Risus (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/risus.htm), which provides a very complete generic system in just 8 pages. In the category "bang per page", Risus is definitively the winner system.

If you are looking for something universal and not GURPS or Hero, take a look at Fate and Fate Accelerated. They've already been mentioned but I'd like second that.

Alternatively, there are a large number of games Powered by the Apocalypse, Apocalypse World,  Monster Hearts, Urban Shadows, there is currently a mecha RPG in development using the engine, Souls of Steel (https://plus.google.com/explore/SoulsOfSteel), so you can get a lot of mileage out of the rule set as long as you don't mind picking up a few PDFs.

There's also BRP. The core book is generic/universal, way less overhead than GURPS.
Simple intuitive system, no classes or levels. Covers lots of power levels... with options for making things play more 'cinematic'.
The BRP Mecha book adds in lots ideas for that sort of thing and Superworld is readily available as a PDF... as well as shedloads of other cool sourcebooks.

Quote from: Ladybird;789245For Unisystem, there's a game called All Flesh Must Be Eaten (Zombie game), which has received all the Unisystem rules attention for the last decade, so that's a good place to go for stuff if you like that system. The "licensed" games use a different version of Unisystem to the "generic" games, and the two aren't really compatible.

Yes, I'm aware of All Flesh Must Be Eaten and it's many supplements but it seemed like a big commitment to purchase or eventually purchase all those books.  Plus I'm more Planet of the Apes than The Walking Dead.

And are "licensed" games like Buffy rules so incompatible with "generic" unisystem games that a simple merging of the two can't happen?

Quote from: jadrax;789247I think Savage Worlds is going to be your best fit tbh.

From what little I know of Savage Worlds.  It seems that your attribute tells you what die you roll.  

e.g.
1= d4
2=d6
3=d8
4=d10
5=d12
6=d20

now does a Silver Surfer type character roll a d100 or 5d20s or something like that?

don't really know the system besides reading reviews online but that's something I don't understand and feel that it might not do better on higher levels.

Can you explain this to me?

thanks

Quote from: Certified;789255Alternatively, there are a large number of games Powered by the Apocalypse, Apocalypse World,  Monster Hearts, Urban Shadows, there is currently a mecha RPG in development using the engine, Souls of Steel (https://plus.google.com/explore/SoulsOfSteel), so you can get a lot of mileage out of the rule set as long as you don't mind picking up a few PDFs.

Never heard of Apocalypse.  Is the system similar to any that I might be familiar with or any basic info you can share about how the basic dice mechanic works?

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789264From what little I know of Savage Worlds.  It seems that your attribute tells you what die you roll.  

e.g.
1= d4
2=d6
3=d8
4=d10
5=d12
6=d20

now does a Silver Surfer type character roll a d100 or 5d20s or something like that?

don't really know the system besides reading reviews online but that's something I don't understand and feel that it might not do better on higher levels.

Can you explain this to me?

thanks

There are several ways of handling superpowers.

The default way in the MRB is to treat superpowers as a form of magic. A super-hero has only one spell, but with a lot of power points behind it so he can use it very constantly. This is for low-powered super-heroes that are on par with other heroic but normal characters, like pulp characters as The Shadow.

If you want to go one step up from that, you could use the Hellfrost magic system. Spells with a duration don't run out there - a magic-user keeps it up as long as he concentrate on it. A super hero under that magic system would just have a load of buff spells that is effectively permanently active.

Finally, there is the Super Powers Companion, which adds a fully fleshed superpowers system for true supers. Characters gain points to buy super powers with, and a shopping list of super powers.

Someone who is extremely good in a natural ability (like Super-Strength) wouldn't roll a d100 - he would gain a flat bonus to his Strength rolls, which has a huge effect in SW. Even a simple +2 bonus makes failure extremely rare, and as it goes up raises are pretty much guaranteed.

Quote from: Skyrock;789253There is also the venerable Risus (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/risus.htm), which provides a very complete generic system in just 8 pages. In the category "bang per page", Risus is definitively the winner system.

hehe

Checked out Risus and while it's seems like a fun game to play I think it's a bit too rules-lite for what I am looking for

Quote from: Skyrock;789269There are several ways of handling superpowers.

The default way in the MRB is to treat superpowers as a form of magic. A super-hero has only one spell, but with a lot of power points behind it so he can use it very constantly. This is for low-powered super-heroes that are on par with other heroic but normal characters, like pulp characters as The Shadow.

If you want to go one step up from that, you could use the Hellfrost magic system. Spells with a duration don't run out there - a magic-user keeps it up as long as he concentrate on it. A super hero under that magic system would just have a load of buff spells that is effectively permanently active.

Finally, there is the Super Powers Companion, which adds a fully fleshed superpowers system for true supers. Characters gain points to buy super powers with, and a shopping list of super powers.

Someone who is extremely good in a natural ability (like Super-Strength) wouldn't roll a d100 - he would gain a flat bonus to his Strength rolls, which has a huge effect in SW. Even a simple +2 bonus makes failure extremely rare, and as it goes up raises are pretty much guaranteed.

Nice, it does seem that Savage Worlds is well supported with a lot of published material for varied setting and campaigns.  Is it safe to say that Savage Worlds is the new GURPS in a sense.

Have you had any issues running or playing Savage Worlds?

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789262And are "licensed" games like Buffy rules so incompatible with "generic" unisystem games that a simple merging of the two can't happen?

iirc, the differences are large enough to make that not a trivial thing, but I've long since got rid of my copy of Buffy. You'd probably want one of each type of corebook to start with.

If you want more Unisystem for free, Witchcraft (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/692/CJ-Carrellas-WitchCraft?it=1) is a modern-day urban horror / magic game using the system.

QuoteNever heard of Apocalypse.  Is the system similar to any that I might be familiar with or any basic info you can share about how the basic dice mechanic works?

The Apocalypse engine is pretty cool, but it's one of the recent systems that's a reaction to games design crawling up it's own ass. It's highly archetypal / class-based; each game with the system is very customized to a particular thing, so there's a game about D&D-esque fantasy, post-apocalyptic scavenging, being soldiers, teenage romance, cyberpunk mercs, blaxploitation movies...
The dice system is 2d6+mods against target numbers of 7 (Partial success, it'll cost you something) or 10 (Actual success), but most of the time it tries to avoid dice at all, with explicit encouragements to talk about situations and follow the natural consequences of actions rather than roll dice.

Dungeon World can be read for free, online - here's a link to the SRD, which is like 99% of what's in the book you can buy (http://book.dwgazetteer.com) - and it's probably the most widely-known and accessible of the games. Bits may seem ludicrously basic, but it's a good intro game as well as a reaction to the rules-obsessive nature of modern D&D's.

Hmm, thinking about it, "single core system pre-customised for the needs of a particular genre" is a much more common thing nowadays than "generic system for the GM to adapt".

Quote from: Ladybird;789277Hmm, thinking about it, "single core system pre-customised for the needs of a particular genre" is a much more common thing nowadays than "generic system for the GM to adapt".

I think that too and that's perfectly fine with me, actually preferred, as it gives me more perspective as to how the mechanics work as opposed to how I felt about GURPS.

But nevertheless I want to be able to port the system into a different genre.

Downloaded Witchcraft, thanks, now I have reading to do later.

And need to check out the Apocalypse engine.  

Took a quick glance at Fate and my first impression is that it's lacking in some familiar things like attributes.  Seems a bit like Risus in that way.

Are more generic or multi-genre systems usually come across as less rules heavy?

Savage Worlds, Unisystem, and DC Adventures doesn't appear to be rules-lite but capable of being a multi-genre systems.

Kinda like my complaint about BESM (Tri-Stat), which I admit didn't thoroughly read, having only 3 attributes to Risus and Fate not having any.

Check out GenreDiversion 3E! Converting games that use the earlier GenreDiversion i is a breeze.

Link:
Precis Intermedia :: genreDiversion Games (http://www.pigames.net/store/default.php?cPath=23)

Pundit referred to the GenreDiversion 3E Manual as a "thinking man's GURPS".

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789271Nice, it does seem that Savage Worlds is well supported with a lot of published material for varied setting and campaigns.  Is it safe to say that Savage Worlds is the new GURPS in a sense.

There are certainly a lot of source books covering genres for it, including basic books like Superheros, Sci Fiction, Fantasy, and more specific settings like Pirates of the Spanish Main, Rotted Capes and of course, Deadlands Reloaded.

QuoteHave you had any issues running or playing Savage Worlds?

I have not run it much, the core maths of the system is a bit wonky due to the fact you re-roll dice that roll maximum, and me and my groups could never get past that. Also not it uses playing cards, that I know some people dislike.

Finally I have seen feedback that it breaks down at cosmic (Silver Surfer, Green Lantern) power levels. Although I suspect its no worse at that level than most other games.


There are no perfect systems.

Silhouette System used for Tribe 8, Heavy Gear etc.
Interlock System used for CyberPunk 2020, Mekton, Jovian Chronicles etc.
FFG's 40k system handles all of 40k, plus can be hacked for WFRP.

Of course the real answer is Rifts. :D

Or, take a look at the Pay-What-You-Want version of RuneQuest 6, the free RQ Firearms supplement, the free supplement from a galaxy far far away that shall not be named, and add in Sci-Fi BRP to taste.

Savage Worlds is ass on dry toast. :p

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789271Is it safe to say that Savage Worlds is the new GURPS in a sense.

I'd never say that. The games have a whole different mindset IMO.
In play GURPS is fairly simple and mostly gets out of the way... Savage Worlds likes to keep reminding you that you're playing Savage Worlds... at least that's how it felt to me.

Mind you, many of the GURPS sourcebooks are of great use for whatever system you end up using.

Quote from: CRKrueger;789294Or, take a look at the Pay-What-You-Want version of RuneQuest 6, the free RQ Firearms supplement, the free supplement from a galaxy far far away that shall not be named, and add in Sci-Fi BRP to taste.

Yeah, RQ6 (or Openquest) would unlock most all the other BRP goodness as well.

Quote from: CRKrueger;789294Silhouette System used for Tribe 8, Heavy Gear etc.
Interlock System used for CyberPunk 2020, Mekton, Jovian Chronicles etc.
FFG's 40k system handles all of 40k, plus can be hacked for WFRP.

Of course the real answer is Rifts. :D

Or, take a look at the Pay-What-You-Want version of RuneQuest 6, the free RQ Firearms supplement, the free supplement from a galaxy far far away that shall not be named, and add in Sci-Fi BRP to taste.

Savage Worlds is ass on dry toast. :p

I'm not familiar with Silhouette or 40k.  Can you explain the dice mechanics of it?  Does it have attributes?  Seems like some games don't nowadays.

Interlock seems a possibility.  Cyberpunk is a street level game with cybernetics and tech added on and Mekton is a mecha high power game iirc.  Can a high power Mekton be added to a Cyberpunk game with no issues?

I might have to check out RuneQuest but isn't RuneQuest similar to early 80s games in that they have a lot of detail like Hero System?

And I know I'm asking you a lot of questions but I have one more.

Why is Savage Worlds ass on dry toast?

thanks

Quote from: CRKrueger;789294Of course the real answer is Rifts. :D

 :p

Ah!  How fondly I remember Rifts.  I don't think I can ever go back to any Palladium games anymore though.  :)

Quote from: Simlasa;789299I'd never say that. The games have a whole different mindset IMO.
In play GURPS is fairly simple and mostly gets out of the way... Savage Worlds likes to keep reminding you that you're playing Savage Worlds... at least that's how it felt to me.

Mind you, many of the GURPS sourcebooks are of great use for whatever system you end up using.

 

Is it because Savage Worlds have cards and re-rolls as another poster mentioned?

And I agree the sourcebooks would be great source material for whatever system.  My feeling is that the system just doesn't do it for me.  But whichever system I do decide to choose from these posts and suggestions I'm sure I'll end up picking up a GURPS book or two.

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789262Plus I'm more Planet of the Apes than The Walking Dead.

In that case, you want: http://edenstudios.net/terraprimate.html

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789314I might have to check out RuneQuest but isn't RuneQuest similar to early 80s games in that they have a lot of detail like Hero System?

I doubt Runequest 6 is anywhere near Hero in density but it probably does have the most crunch of the current crop of BRP games.
BRP core is more of a toolkit, with a lot of switches that can be turned on or off... such as hit locations vs. general wounds... Fate Points, etc... and Openquest (and CoC) is lighter still. They all share enough similarities that it's easy to mix and match stuff written for any of them.

Quote from: Ladybird;789277iirc, the differences are large enough to make that not a trivial thing, but I've long since got rid of my copy of Buffy. You'd probably want one of each type of corebook to start with.

If you want more Unisystem for free, Witchcraft (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/692/CJ-Carrellas-WitchCraft?it=1) is a modern-day urban horror / magic game using the system.



The Apocalypse engine is pretty cool, but it's one of the recent systems that's a reaction to games design crawling up it's own ass. It's highly archetypal / class-based; each game with the system is very customized to a particular thing, so there's a game about D&D-esque fantasy, post-apocalyptic scavenging, being soldiers, teenage romance, cyberpunk mercs, blaxploitation movies...
The dice system is 2d6+mods against target numbers of 7 (Partial success, it'll cost you something) or 10 (Actual success), but most of the time it tries to avoid dice at all, with explicit encouragements to talk about situations and follow the natural consequences of actions rather than roll dice.

Dungeon World can be read for free, online - here's a link to the SRD, which is like 99% of what's in the book you can buy (http://book.dwgazetteer.com) - and it's probably the most widely-known and accessible of the games. Bits may seem ludicrously basic, but it's a good intro game as well as a reaction to the rules-obsessive nature of modern D&D's.

Hmm, thinking about it, "single core system pre-customised for the needs of a particular genre" is a much more common thing nowadays than "generic system for the GM to adapt".

For games Powered by the Apocalypse in a strange way, the playbooks, classes, are both more and less restrictive.  They serve to say what role your character fills and really focus them in a social sense at the start of the game. Games like Monster Hearts (Teen Supernatural Romance) define the playbook by the creature you play, Vampire, Werewolf, but this doesn't change that guiding concept of social role as each of these playbooks interact with other characters in very different ways.

Because each playbook can only be selected once it's a kind of niche protection. There will never be two Fighters in Dungeon World or two Brainers in Apocalypse World. These playbooks give you a list of specialized Moves, special abilities, that are part of what defines who they are. Such as the Gun Lugger's Not to be Fucked With which lets them act as a small gang all by themselves. (I mention this because I just like saying "Not to be fucked with")

However, once you're  out of the gate and earning experience the game allows you to branch out. Although, by the time you are selecting moves from other playbooks as an advancement option there is usually a solid party dynamic in place.

To the other core point. The core system remains constant, each game tweaks it in different ways often around how relationships between characters play out and what playbooks look like. The Spirit of 77 Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/monkeyfunstudios/spirit-of-77-a-funky-1970s-tabletop-role-playing-g) is about to wrap if you want to see how the game looks in the seventies there is a demo (http://spiritof77game.com/cruise-ship-of-the-damned-free-download/). It looks like they have come up with an interesting way of defining the character that really fits the genre. This of course seems to really be one of the strengths of the engine. Each setting book I've seen uses virtually everything they can to push the flavor and feel of that setting.

Quote from: Simlasa;789341I doubt Runequest 6 is anywhere near Hero in density but it probably does have the most crunch of the current crop of BRP games.
BRP core is more of a toolkit, with a lot of switches that can be turned on or off... such as hit locations vs. general wounds... Fate Points, etc... and Openquest (and CoC) is lighter still. They all share enough similarities that it's easy to mix and match stuff written for any of them.

Runequest 6 is another really good option. If you strip out the core setting, the rules can be adapted to virtually anything very easily.

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789271Have you had any issues running or playing Savage Worlds?

The only trouble I've had in Savage Worlds games has been with players coming in from D&D, and trying to play D&D (trying to make attacks every round instead of swinging off chandeliers or bluffing their opponents for instance), and getting frustrated when the output from that doesn't match their expectations.  And its not all players by any means, just a subset.

That shouldn't be a problem if you never got into D&D in the first place, but it'd be something to watch out for in new players.  Too, I think its worst when you're powering a fantasy game with Savage Worlds.  It should be less of a problem if you're talking about supers and mecha.

Something to be aware of is Savage Worlds is a universal toolkit system, but not a universal generic system in the fullest sense of throwing the core book alone out on the table across several genres.  If you look at the published and even the home-brewed settings, the good ones take some core book options off the table, expand on other options from core, and add new options entirely.

Well, before I read his needs for a universal-do-it-all system I was gonna suggest Traveller, because I almost always (these days) suggest Traveller.

But seeing that he wants a universal system that isn't GURPS, I think I've only got to suggestions that haven't been mentioned yet:

The Hero system generally seen as "Champions", but as I understand it started life as a swords and sorcery game, then added ninjas, until they just went superhero with it.  Clearly, however, it can be used to create a specific type of game/setting with only a little work, since all the peices are in place.

The other, tossed out because I'm an elitist snob of a gamer who has to do the hipster thing and mention a game no one else has, and probably can no longer find... CORPS, or failing that move back a step and get TimeLords, from teh same people.










For the record I don't actually endorse CORPS as a universal system. I like it just fine, but I think its about as Universal as the D20 system...

Quote from: Saladman;789371Something to be aware of is Savage Worlds is a universal toolkit system, but not a universal generic system in the fullest sense of throwing the core book alone out on the table across several genres.  If you look at the published and even the home-brewed settings, the good ones take some core book options off the table, expand on other options from core, and add new options entirely.

Yeah, you've put it better than I did but that's exactly what I am looking for.  A universal toolkit system.

I'm assuming that unisystem will be considered as a universal toolkit system as well.

Quote from: Spike;789372Well, before I read his needs for a universal-do-it-all system I was gonna suggest Traveller, because I almost always (these days) suggest Traveller.

But seeing that he wants a universal system that isn't GURPS, I think I've only got to suggestions that haven't been mentioned yet:

For the record I don't actually endorse CORPS as a universal system. I like it just fine, but I think its about as Universal as the D20 system...

Well as another poster has said better than I did. I am looking for a universal toolkit system not a universal system.

Will Traveller allow for that?
Will CORPS?

I am looking for one game system where I can master and my three new players can at least familiarize themselves with so that we can run different campaigns and settings as we see fit.

player characters being just normal humans in one setting/campaign to Green Lantern/Superman superheroes to Giant Mecha fighting Godzillas.

Understanding that house rules or different toolkits (not real sure what this means) might be needed but as I've just said earlier, looking for a nice rule-set/dice mechanic.

Quote from: Ladybird;789277iirc, the differences are large enough to make that not a trivial thing, but I've long since got rid of my copy of Buffy. You'd probably want one of each type of corebook to start with.

If you want more Unisystem for free, Witchcraft (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/692/CJ-Carrellas-WitchCraft?it=1) is a modern-day urban horror / magic game using the system.

Cinematic Unisystem is basically Classic with Drama Points, no Mana and a limited skill list. I think they're compatible-ish. Classic is closer to GURPS in that it's more neutrally flavoured/less geared for cinematic adventure.

That said, I really rate Ghosts of Albion which is Cinematic. Forget the Victoriana, it's a nice refinement of previous iterations of magic system together with methods for making supernaturals -- I wouldn't be surprised if Beyond Human is more similar than different, if it ever sees daylight

Is RuneQuest 6 level based?

I recall hearing about RuneQuest back in the day when I used to play and feel that it'll be very rules heavy, am I wrong in this assumption?

I've heard Champions is great because you can do everything but it seemed very intimidating when I took a look at it a long time ago with a bunch of charts and lots of "info" as early 80s game seems to be.

Also read online that character generation is a chore.  

One of my purchases since I've decided to get back into RPGs was DC Adventures (M&M) and while I don't find the dice mechanic difficult, character generation took a long time.

That's something I kind of want to avoid with 3 new RPG players and with me being familiar with a few games from when I used to play in years past.

Quote from: CRKrueger;789294FFG's 40k system handles all of 40k, plus can be hacked for WFRP.

Or you could do what we did back in the 80s and hack WFRP 1e to run 40K: Rogue Trader as RPG...

Quote from: smiorgan;789375I wouldn't be surprised if Beyond Human is more similar than different, if it ever sees daylight

That's disappointing.
Both that Beyond Human might never be published and that Beyond Human won't be what I expect.

Of the books I've recently bought.  Unisystem as shown in Terra Primate seemed like the best system with the dice mechanic, ease of character generation, and from what I've read online and in this thread, the "toolkits" with different genre rules and the "power scale" going from normal humans all the way up to Armageddon level characters (which I imagine is high according to reviews)

Doctor Who and DC Adventures looks good to though but I'm no RPG specialist.

Quote from: Herne's Son;789338In that case, you want: http://edenstudios.net/terraprimate.html

Yup, that's why I bought this instead of the All Flesh Must Be Eaten first.

I don't think anyone's mentioned D6 system yet. It's generic and it's free.

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/468/West-End-Games

Downside is it's no longer supported AFAIK, so if you want mainstream support that's a problem. But there are variants like mini-Six and OpenD6.

Quote from: smiorgan;789380I don't think anyone's mentioned D6 system yet. It's generic and it's free.

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/468/West-End-Games

Downside is it's no longer supported AFAIK, so if you want mainstream support that's a problem. But there are variants like mini-Six and OpenD6.

Downloading it now.

Will check it out.

Thanks

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789378That's disappointing.
Both that Beyond Human might never be published and that Beyond Human won't be what I expect.

OTOH Ghosts of Albion is in print right now, and may actually have what you want if you file the Victoriana serial numbers off. I wouldn't buy the pdf though (unless you were planning to print it) so laying down 30 quid on the hardback is a gamble.

QuoteOf the books I've recently bought.  Unisystem as shown in Terra Primate seemed like the best system with the dice mechanic, ease of character generation, and from what I've read online and in this thread, the "toolkits" with different genre rules and the "power scale" going from normal humans all the way up to Armageddon level characters (which I imagine is high according to reviews)

The Classic Unisystem books integrate well to the extent that (IIRC) the psionics rules for Terra Primate are identical to the ones for Conspiracy X 2.0.

Also, don't think of AFMBE as a zombie game; think of it as a generic game where the supplements' titles are puns on zombie genre. All zombies are in AFMBE are monsters constructed from a toolkit. I reckon you could completely ignore the zombie aspects.

I did a sort of run-down of Unisystem supplements I owned at the time:

http://www.departmentv.net/2012/07/unisystem-round-up/

I also have Dungeons and Zombies, All Tomorrow's Zombies and Enter The Zombie, and they all serve the different genres well -- if you can get past the punning supplement titles.

Taking into account the systems you already excluded (Gurps, Hero, BRP) the most popular and well supported toolkit systems at present are Savage Worlds and Fate. They each have their own distinctive flavour but they are highly customisable games with tons of resources to draw from. You can get a hold of Fate and the Test Drive rules for Savage Worlds for free to give you an idea. I quick search through Google will also show just how many resources are available for both games.

One system that I don't think has not been mentioned yet is D6. You can now download legally for free the Fantasy, Adventure and Space versions of the system (and assorted resources) http://www.polgarusgames.com/download-page or get the streamlined MiniSix (http://www.antipaladingames.com/p/mini-six.html). There are a few commercial D6 rules for superheroes as well.

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789376Is RuneQuest 6 level based?

I recall hearing about RuneQuest back in the day when I used to play and feel that it'll be very rules heavy, am I wrong in this assumption?

Nope, no levels, no classes.
Like I said, RQ6 is the probably the heaviest incarnation of BRP at the moment... but the BRP book from Chaosium is a toolkit and can be tuned to be much lighter... easily as light as Savage Worlds but with fewer gimmicks. There's a free quickstart: BRP Quickstart (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/82093/Basic-Roleplaying-Quickstart-Edition?filters=0_0_44826_0_0)

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789379Yup, that's why I bought this instead of the All Flesh Must Be Eaten first.

Terra Primate was my first Unisystem game as well, and is among my all time favourite games. But I ended up getting AFMBE, the complete Conspiracy X 2.0 line, Angel, Ghosts of Albion, Army of Darkness and Eldritch Skies (now OOP for Unisystem). Mixing and matching all these games gives you pretty much the equivalent of a generic system toolkit.

That said, I'll repeat GenreDiversion, as you seem to have missed my suggestion for it earlier on in the thread. (Either that, or you have me on ignore. :teehee:)

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789271Have you had any issues running or playing Savage Worlds?

Not issues per se, but things that can catch players on the wrong foot.

For one thing, SW runs best if run with maps and minis. It was built for that, and employs a lot of shortcuts relying on those accessories.
For example, Extras have only three health statuses: They are either OK, Shaken or Out of Action. When you use minis, you will have no bookkeeping as GM - you can just lay down the Extra mini to show to everyone that it is Shaken, and take it from the map when it is Out of Action. Play without a map, and you will miss this and other shortcuts that are what gives SW its qualities.

Also, combat can be deadly for the uninitiated. You need to be aware of the maneuvres, use them and do teamwork to make a stand in combat. The combat survival guide is a great aid to dampen this effect, but most gamers will probably still need a few sessions of easy combats and not-so-easy combats with PC death until they get a grip on it.

Quote from: Certified;789347Runequest 6 is another really good option. If you strip out the core setting, the rules can be adapted to virtually anything very easily.

RQ6 doesn't have an core setting!

QuoteOP:In a sense I am looking for a system where in one campaign I can do street level heroes and in the next campaign I can do giant mecha or supermen being gods in a futuristic earth, or a mixture of both or whatever.

BRP Gold Book is this!

I would sugget you buy both RQ6 and BRP Gold book. There may even be some hack for RQ6 set in space, far away, long ago. There are firearms rules for free at their website (http://www.thedesignmechanism.com/downloads.php) along with free basic rules.

Here's a conversion of a Savage Worlds setting to the Mongoose Legends system (RuneQuest 6) called Mercenary Breed (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse.php?filters=0_0_45209_0_0&cPath=6426_9133). I'm sure you could tune up RQ6 with rules from it.

Looks like I made a silly mistake.

Here's the Runescape Rule set I was referring to, which is totally not Runescape at all. (Well, maybe a little...)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5d/HeroQuestRPGCover.jpg)

Quote from: 3rik;789397I'll repeat GenreDiversion, as you seem to have missed my suggestion for it earlier on in the thread. (Either that, or you have me on ignore. :teehee:)

Sorry, it seems that I did miss your earlier suggestion and never ignore.  I'll looked up GenreDiversion and it sounds pretty good in the review that I read and the price isn't too bad.  I don't know if I will give it a chance.

The review made by someone in this site talks about it being good for lower power-level campaigns but is not suitable for epic sci-fi and I assume higher power level games and I will be like to be able to do this.

So I think it might not be what I am looking for

Quote from: Skyrock;789453Not issues per se, but things that can catch players on the wrong foot.

For one thing, SW runs best if run with maps and minis. It was built for that, and employs a lot of shortcuts relying on those accessories.
For example, Extras have only three health statuses: They are either OK, Shaken or Out of Action. When you use minis, you will have no bookkeeping as GM - you can just lay down the Extra mini to show to everyone that it is Shaken, and take it from the map when it is Out of Action. Play without a map, and you will miss this and other shortcuts that are what gives SW its qualities.

Well it doesn't completely make me turn my back into it but I definitely am not a detail combat oriented gamer.  Maps and minis seems to take out the role playing imagination of a fight for me nor am I so tactical.

I doubt the 3 friends that are going to play with me to be tactical combat players neither with them being first time table top players and is really sold on the role playing aspects of the genre.

I do want a good combat system just not so detailed as with minis and maps.

Thanks for this info.  Never would've guessed that a game that has so many setting and genre support to be so combat based.

Quote from: Certified;789463Looks like I made a silly mistake.

Here's the Runescape Rule set I was referring to, which is totally not Runescape at all. (Well, maybe a little...)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5d/HeroQuestRPGCover.jpg)

A Steve Jackson Game that isn't based on GURPS?

That's news to me

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789487A Steve Jackson Game that isn't based on GURPS?

That's news to me

If you are up for card games, Steve Jackson Games has some very fun offerings like Chez Geek.

I would say try SW.

I played it at a con and after 1 game and a copy of the basic ghame a mate gave me ($10) I was able to write a complete conversion for Strontium Dogs.

the game is simple to understand, simple to play and whilst it favours minis minis are no more required than in anyother game. So if you take the status stuff for example it has 3 status but compared to D&D where a monster might have 40 HP yopu have to track + multiple status effects its a synch.

For 10 bucks its worth giving it a go and it is very flexible and expandable.

I would also agree that BRP is very easy to grasp and expand however I think it hits a limit with "super" type characters and it can get crunchy if you start trying to add layers of differentiation which is very tempting since it's so easy to plug additional bits in.

I would avoid Traveller as a generic system as everyone will be dead after your first combat. Great system but it has a certain play style.

You can use an old World of Darkness engine to play pretty much any system. Stat + Skill = dice pool + Powers is a very flexible model but using it for your needs might be a homebrew too far.

Quote from: jibbajibba;789489I would also agree that BRP is very easy to grasp and expand however I think it hits a limit with "super" type characters

Depends on your concept of 'super'... because from the discussions I've seen superheros are one of the more contentious genres for RPGs. I've run pulp-era stuff ala The Spider with no problem. I ran Superworld waybackwhen and was quite happy with it... but we weren't going for Warpsmiths/Qys levels of galactic power.

Quote from: Simlasa;789515Depends on your concept of 'super'... because from the discussions I've seen superheros are one of the more contentious genres for RPGs. I've run pulp-era stuff ala The Spider with no problem. I ran Superworld waybackwhen and was quite happy with it... but we weren't going for Warpsmiths/Qys levels of galactic power.

I do agree Supers are reasonably problematic. I am refering to the Comic book supers from X-Men, spiderman etc
If your character is an alien can fly lift buildings and so on I find the bounded 1-100 results range can be limiting.

Systems where you can exceed the target and thus add different effects (like SW, Amber's diceless engine, etc are better suited)

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789374Well as another poster has said better than I did. I am looking for a universal toolkit system not a universal system.

Will Traveller allow for that?
Will CORPS?

I am looking for one game system where I can master and my three new players can at least familiarize themselves with so that we can run different campaigns and settings as we see fit.

player characters being just normal humans in one setting/campaign to Green Lantern/Superman superheroes to Giant Mecha fighting Godzillas.

Understanding that house rules or different toolkits (not real sure what this means) might be needed but as I've just said earlier, looking for a nice rule-set/dice mechanic.

Traveller is... iffy. It does just about anything human scaled quite well, which in game terms tends to be described as 'gritty'. I speak mostly for Mongoose Traveller, though in my estimation its a fair sample of the game.  Mongoose did adapt it to Strontium Dogs and Judge Dredd, which seems a bit redundant now that I think about it, but bog standard, out of the box, I can't see it handling anything 'Super' very well. It might be interesting to adapt the space ship rules to Mecha, perhaps.

But if you think outside the box, which Mongoose clearly has, you can do some damn interesting things just using the framework. The Free Online adventure 'Secrets of the Ancients' includes a mini-chapter where  you play posthuman demigods with a single sidebar explanation of the 'new rules'. The Dynasty book is geared for generational play, and the Merchant Princes book introduces a 'minigame' around quarterly corporate action, within the context of an otherwise ordinary adventuring party.

In short, regarding Traveller: If all you need is a robust ruleset, and you're willing to put in the work, sure, it'll do what  you want. You could say the same for most rulesets, however.


CORPS is another manner. It literally billed itself as a the Complete Omniversal Roleplaying System, which I can't help but think was aimed at GURPS in some way.  It isn't GURPS, the rules are mechanically quite different and the book is quite slim. I can't speak for EABA, which is the current incarnation if I understand it (available online, as I recall. I may have even bought it at one time, but I wouldn't swear to it!).

CORPS doesn't come with a setting, it is really nothing more than a framework on which to build your setting/game, though there are some elements that are provided, such as basic weapon lists, advantages and flaws, not all of which are appropriate for every game... but a much, much MUCH smaller list than GURPS, and of course, Skills.  Again: Not sure how well it would handle Mecha, but magic and super powers, or angelic miracles (I'm most familiar with Unisystem from Armaggedon...) just fine.

Given that you mentioned Mecha, you might be best served starting from a good game system that supports Mecha organically (seeing as that is likely to be the most technically difficult rule set to integrate), and adding rules for magic and super powers to it. For that I'd go with Dream Pod 9, say Heavy Gear or Jovian Chronicles.

Great: now I want to start a thread on game design, Special FX powers and scaling.  Luckily, I'm past my bed time and I've got two jobs tomorrow, so LONG day. Saved by my work ethic!

RQ6 is a skill-based system.  Most of the "crunch" comes from the five different magic types and the fact that combat uses an Action Point economy and has damage per physical location instead of a pool of Hit Points.  I like RQ6 because with a location-based armor and hit point system, I can pick up some player's figure, or look at a drawing or picture of their character, and just assign armor by what they're wearing - "that's your armor".  I think the BRP system may very well fall down with 50' tall robots and Galactus, but I never had any interest in using BRP for that.  There is a free Quick-Start (http://www.thedesignmechanism.com/downloads.php).

Silhouette is classless, ten attributes rated +3 to -3, skill roll is a number of 6-siders based on skill rating, take the highest, add your trait modifier and situational modifiers.  It matters by how much you succeed for many things.  Having Heavy Gear, Tribe 8 and Jovian Chronicles, gives you Mecha, Robots, and Magic, things that aren't easy to bring together.

Savage Worlds is CINEMATIC with a capital Spielberg.  If second edition AD&D is clean fantasy, this is "Clean Pulp".  Characters have different mechanics because they're Big Damn Heroes as opposed to dramatically unimportant Extras, simple task resolution is rather uneffective, the stunt and Bennies mechanics mean everything you do has to be Fast, Furious, Fun! Always! in fact I think everyone has to yell while playing. :D  

Interlock should work well with humans, mecha, robot levels of power, as long as you're willing to have a PPC annihilate a party. :D

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789483Sorry, it seems that I did miss your earlier suggestion and never ignore.  I'll looked up GenreDiversion and it sounds pretty good in the review that I read and the price isn't too bad.  I don't know if I will give it a chance.

The review made by someone in this site talks about it being good for lower power-level campaigns but is not suitable for epic sci-fi and I assume higher power level games and I will be like to be able to do this.

So I think it might not be what I am looking for

I think most of the systems mentioned here have problems at high power levels. I've even seen the complaint raised about Savage Worlds.

Though there's quite some fun-sounding settings out for it, my own experience with SW has been rather underwhelming. It felt gamey, a bit bland, and certainly no more fast, furious, or fun than any other comparably rules-medium system out there. Card-based initiative felt tagged-on, redundant. Really nothing to write home about.

In defence of GenreDiversion I'll mention there *is* a supers game out for it, Bold & Brave, which was also reviewed on this site.

Quote from: 3rik;789541I think most of the systems mentioned here have problems at high power levels. I've even seen the complaint raised about Savage Worlds.

Though there's quite some fun-sounding settings out for it, my own experience with SW has been rather underwhelming. It felt gamey, a bit bland, and certainly no more fast, furious, or fun than any other comparably rules-medium system out there. Card-based initiative felt tagged-on, redundant. Really nothing to write home about.

In defence of GenreDiversion I'll mention there *is* a supers game out for it, Bold & Brave, which was also reviewed on this site.

Yeah, it seems like you're the second person to post that Savage Worlds didn't quite cut it.

From what I've read on the review of GenreDiversion.  It does seem to have the whole attributes, skills, and advantage/disadvantage thing a lot of the rpgs seem to have.  Not quite sure but pretty much the dice roll+ability (attribute)+skill beating the target number.  

As I said a lot of rpgs seem to have such a mechanism.  In your opinion, seems like you really know and like the system, what makes GenreDiversion better than the other systems that have been mentioned that you have experience with?

thanks

Quote from: CRKrueger;789530RQ6 is a skill-based system.  Most of the "crunch" comes from the five different magic types and the fact that combat uses an Action Point economy and has damage per physical location instead of a pool of Hit Points.  I like RQ6 because with a location-based armor and hit point system, I can pick up some player's figure, or look at a drawing or picture of their character, and just assign armor by what they're wearing - "that's your armor".  I think the BRP system may very well fall down with 50' tall robots and Galactus, but I never had any interest in using BRP for that.  There is a free Quick-Start (http://www.thedesignmechanism.com/downloads.php).

Silhouette is classless, ten attributes rated +3 to -3, skill roll is a number of 6-siders based on skill rating, take the highest, add your trait modifier and situational modifiers.  It matters by how much you succeed for many things.  Having Heavy Gear, Tribe 8 and Jovian Chronicles, gives you Mecha, Robots, and Magic, things that aren't easy to bring together.

Savage Worlds is CINEMATIC with a capital Spielberg.  If second edition AD&D is clean fantasy, this is "Clean Pulp".  Characters have different mechanics because they're Big Damn Heroes as opposed to dramatically unimportant Extras, simple task resolution is rather uneffective, the stunt and Bennies mechanics mean everything you do has to be Fast, Furious, Fun! Always! in fact I think everyone has to yell while playing. :D  

Interlock should work well with humans, mecha, robot levels of power, as long as you're willing to have a PPC annihilate a party. :D

Sounds like Silhouette might be worth a look.
So does RQ6 but I'm a bit hesitant because it a play of basic system and while I don't know too much about basic besides that it's an early 80s system is that it's a percentile skill system.  Which is something I'll have to overcome.

Silhouette and Savage Worlds being newer systems seems to fit better with what I think I'll enjoy more.

Interlock is the system used in Cyberpunk 2020?

And what's PPC?

Quote from: jibbajibba;789489You can use an old World of Darkness engine to play pretty much any system. Stat + Skill = dice pool + Powers is a very flexible model but using it for your needs might be a homebrew too far.

I am definitely familiar with World of Darkness.  Where you have a basic mechanic and seems flexible.

Not necessarily opposed to homebrew as necessary but I'm of the feeling (and I'm most familiar with the World of Darkness than any other system) that it will get quite cumbersome.  And I'm just not speaking about dice pools.

Quote from: Spike;789527Great: now I want to start a thread on game design, Special FX powers and scaling.  Luckily, I'm past my bed time and I've got two jobs tomorrow, so LONG day. Saved by my work ethic!

Please do!!!

I'll love to read the thread and learn more.
And I'll probably chime in with my 2 cents even though I kinda lack the knowledge.

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789577From what I've read on the review of GenreDiversion.  It does seem to have the whole attributes, skills, and advantage/disadvantage thing a lot of the rpgs seem to have.  Not quite sure but pretty much the dice roll+ability (attribute)+skill beating the target number.  

As I said a lot of rpgs seem to have such a mechanism.  In your opinion, seems like you really know and like the system, what makes GenreDiversion better than the other systems that have been mentioned that you have experience with?

thanks

GenreDiversion is indeed a straight traditional stat+skill vs. target number-type system and, in that regard, similar to Unisystem, except for its 2d6 probability curve. It's the kind of system I enjoy. I have no actual experience using GenreDiversion 3E, but I enjoy GenreDiversion i for being light-weight and extremely easy to tinker with. With 3E the game is now roll-over instead of roll-under and has been made into a more versatile rules set better suited for multi-session play. I figured if you enjoy Unisystem you may very well enjoy this as well. Hence my recommendation. Brett Bernstein of Precis Intermedia is a member of the forum.

Thank you to everyone that posted with fine suggestions.

I've browsed through many game systems the last couple of days due to all the suggestions.

Fate and Risus without having attributes is a too much for me to mentally handle.

Reading up on the Apocalypse engine, it seems that each setting has different attributes and that is not quite what I am looking for.

Basic and maybe RQ6 seem to use the percentile system and that is something I'll like to avoid.

CORPS character sheet scared me with what looked like hit location boxes.

I haven't looked at Traveller or the D6 system but I recall them being early 80s system and that's a bit more technical than I'm looking for.

Which leaves...

Unisystem, Savage Worlds, GenreDiversion, Silhouette and Interlock as my remaining choices from the suggestions given.

That kinda narrows down what I have to read and study and for that thank you very much.

Thanks again for your time and expertise

Quote from: Certified;789463Looks like I made a silly mistake.

Here's the Runescape Rule set I was referring to, which is totally not Runescape at all. (Well, maybe a little...)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5d/HeroQuestRPGCover.jpg)

Jesus christ that's an awful cover, I'd forgotten how bad it looked. It also embodied everything I dislike about Glorantha.

Quote from: TheNextDoctor;789264From what little I know of Savage Worlds.  It seems that your attribute tells you what die you roll.  

e.g.
1= d4
2=d6
3=d8
4=d10
5=d12
6=d20

now does a Silver Surfer type character roll a d100 or 5d20s or something like that?

don't really know the system besides reading reviews online but that's something I don't understand and feel that it might not do better on higher levels.

Can you explain this to me?

thanks

If you're Silver Surfer, what do you need to roll vs. a challenge fit for Willie Lumpkin? Nothing!

Everything would get scaled to that level. Human-scale, though, is the focus of the core book.

Quote from: RPGPundit;790069Jesus christ that's an awful cover, I'd forgotten how bad it looked. It also embodied everything I dislike about Glorantha.

We at Moon Design agree it is a terrible cover. But that is not the approach we've taken for the last five years (and certainly not since Jon Hodgson and I have taken over doing Gloranthan covers). For example,these are the covers for the two volumes of the Guide to Glorantha:
(https://33.media.tumblr.com/3c006f0906e0010ad28da4a02872e726/tumblr_na66ucSdmX1rgbqq5o1_500.jpg)

So you may dislike Glorantha, but please don't base your dislike of Glorantha on the Captain Spandex cover.

Can you shrink that picture please?

Quote from: One Horse Town;790297Can you shrink that picture please?

Whoops! Edited now.

Quote from: richaje;790295We at Moon Design agree it is a terrible cover. But that is not the approach we've taken for the last five years (and certainly not since Jon Hodgson and I have taken over doing Gloranthan covers). For example,these are the covers for the two volumes of the Guide to Glorantha:
(https://33.media.tumblr.com/3c006f0906e0010ad28da4a02872e726/tumblr_na66ucSdmX1rgbqq5o1_500.jpg)

So you may dislike Glorantha, but please don't base your dislike of Glorantha on the Captain Spandex cover.

Those are certainly better covers.  Mind you, just about anything would be!

Re: Traveller, it would work for hard sci-fi, and can be easily adapted for more space opera settings, and can even work for steam-punk, or modern stuff.  But getting it to work for fantasy - good luck with that !

For Traveller, there are "Worlds Apart" and "Flynn's Guide to Magic" to bring in the fantasy elements.