Check this latest blog from James at GROGNARDIA:
https://grognardia.blogspot.com/2024/03/dice-for-accumulative-hits.html?m=0#comment-form (https://grognardia.blogspot.com/2024/03/dice-for-accumulative-hits.html?m=0#comment-form)
Now, I've ALWAYS figured h.p. by taking the hit die for that class and adding the result to the total (Con bonus as well) when going up a level.
But read the article. We MAY have been doing it wrong. This is mind blowing to me.
I posted my reply there, but I'm curious about your thoughts.
Kevin Crawfords "... Without Number" games all use this method.
As far as I can tell, the intent in AD&D and Basic/Expert is that you roll the new dice and add to the current total. I'm not at all sure about OD&D. Also, the variant of rerolling the entire set and taking if higher has been a house rule in D&D I don't know how long. It was old when I first encountered it in the mid 80's.
My own system does hit points with that variant, which is something I picked up from those old house rules. It works great when doing random rolls at smoothing out a string of bad luck. The other thing I like about it is that it effectively means that hit points don't go up every level. This has some kind of minor psychological effect on players' attitudes towards leveling that I find positive, albeit hard to pin down.
Quote from: blackstone on March 19, 2024, 01:00:24 PMNow, I've ALWAYS figured h.p. by taking the hit die for that class and adding the result to the total (Con bonus as well) when going up a level.
But read the article. We MAY have been doing it wrong. This is mind blowing to me.
I posted my reply there, but I'm curious about your thoughts.
I've been playing OD&D this way for years now. There are several advantages to re-rolling all your hit points each level instead of the usual roll and add method:
1) By rerolling, you balance out bad rolls, especially bad rolls at lower levels.
2) Using this method means you can give out bonus hit points at first level without affecting the hit point total at higher levels. I've been starting all characters with hit points equal to 1/2 their Con score. Often magic-users won't gain any new hit points until 3rd or 4th level while fighters might have a higher total at first level.
3) It greatly simplifies multiclass characters. Each time you gain a level in a class, you roll that classes hit die total. So gaining a level in magic-user will often not result in more hit points. This also allows me to adjust XP so that the levels of the various classes in a multiclass character don't need to be equal. A FTR 8/MU 4 works just fine. (in a way this is very similar to AD&D's dual class rule)
Finally, I've implemented a rule change for "level drain" to make it "hit point drain" instead. A character hit with a draining attack will permanently lose hit points. These will be recovered as the character levels up. But, since the new current total is lower, it is possible that a bad hit point roll might not recover all the lost hit points. But, in any event, as the player levels up he will gradually fully recover.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on March 19, 2024, 01:17:54 PM
As far as I can tell, the intent in AD&D and Basic/Expert is that you roll the new dice and add to the current total.
In doing research, it looks like Gygax always used the roll and add method whereas the reroll all dice method was used by Dave Arneson's group (hence it's appearance in Empire of the Petal Throne).
And you are right about not always gaining hit points. If a character gets a really good roll, he might not gain more hit points for the next few levels.
Yea, I can't speak to whether that's the original intent, but its definitely the variant I like to use the most, I see it in a lot of OSR games, and its completely possible it dates back to the beginning.
well then....i've been living a lie. :-[
Good old jmal late to the party by about 30+ years. I remember this being discussed on rec.games.frp when I was in undergrad, and I'm sure this discussion took place in some old APAs in the late 70s.
One thing I read a long time ago (source unknown, maybe some blog?) talked about this at length and how the 1+1 meant the fighter character was higher than a 1 hit-die creature, which means monsters wouldn't get the multiple attack routines they would otherwise get against low-levels. Just having the fighter around meant you couldn't be hit fifty times in a row by some high level monsters before you even had a chance to react.
Quote from: Brad on March 19, 2024, 02:11:21 PM
how the 1+1 meant the fighter character was higher than a 1 hit-die creature, which means monsters wouldn't get the multiple attack routines they would otherwise get against low-levels. Just having the fighter around meant you couldn't be hit fifty times in a row by some high level monsters before you even had a chance to react.
Interesting, so the +1 on the hitpoints was a way of setting figters above 1HD monsters without giving them a whole extra hit die, I can see that. Kind of like the xHD* that monsters would get for purposes of XP.
QuoteQuote from: Steven Mitchell on March 19, 2024, 01:17:54 PM
As far as I can tell, the intent in AD&D and Basic/Expert is that you roll the new dice and add to the current total.
In doing research, it looks like Gygax always used the roll and add method whereas the reroll all dice method was used by Dave Arneson's group (hence it's appearance in Empire of the Petal Throne).
And you are right about not always gaining hit points. If a character gets a really good roll, he might not gain more hit points for the next few levels.
I'll stick with the Gygaxian "roll and add" method. Honestly, there really isn't any right or wrong, and long as you're consistent in the game you run.
I do find it funny and interesting that after all of these 40+ years I've learned something new about the game I thought I knew so much about.
The table itself dioes kind of hint at that being the case. A level 1 fighter has 1+1 HD. When 2nd level is reached and the new HD total is 2, if you didn't roll 2 dice what is the alternative? Roll 1d5 and add? B/X made the added dice per level a bit easier with even numbers. On one hand you are guaranteed to get more hit points at every single level but if you roll a 1 or a 2 at first level then you stuck with it.
This got discussed in Dragon somewhere and someone clarified that it was additive. Not reroll every level.
I still want to know why characters don't get their zero level hit dice like everyone else does.
Quote from: Exploderwizard on March 19, 2024, 07:47:44 PM
The table itself dioes kind of hint at that being the case. A level 1 fighter has 1+1 HD. When 2nd level is reached and the new HD total is 2, if you didn't roll 2 dice what is the alternative? Roll 1d5 and add? B/X made the added dice per level a bit easier with even numbers. On one hand you are guaranteed to get more hit points at every single level but if you roll a 1 or a 2 at first level then you stuck with it.
The alternative is rolling two dice and adding the result to your hp, since it says roll two dice.
Quote from: Exploderwizard on March 19, 2024, 07:47:44 PM
The table itself dioes kind of hint at that being the case. A level 1 fighter has 1+1 HD. When 2nd level is reached and the new HD total is 2, if you didn't roll 2 dice what is the alternative?
I think the alternative is that you replace the +1 with the new hit die, which could also be a 1, but could also be higher than a 1.
Quote from: Domina on March 20, 2024, 12:29:36 AM
The alternative is rolling two dice and adding the result to your hp, since it says roll two dice.
This is incorrect and not an alternative. The ways of interpreting it are:
You could subtract out the constant and then roll the new die.
You could reroll all your dice at every level and take that as your total.
A case is made for the method that was allegedly used at other tables, which is:
You could roll all your dice at every level and take that as your total
if it is higher.
If you have 5 hit points and achieve level 2, you don't add two dice to the 5. We know this because there's an example that precludes this possibility, and also, no rule tells us to do this.
For OD&D, the Greyhawk Supplement introduced d4 for magic users and d6 for clerics and d8 for fighters. That system allowed for one new HD added each level, so rolling one die and adding it to a previous total works well.
The problem is pre-Greyhawk OD&D, where HD go from 1+1 to 2 to 2+1 and so on, where sometimes you aren't adding a full die. Going from 2 to 2+1 is a no-brainer, but how to you go from 1+1 to 2? Add a new die and subtract one to account for the old +1? Not as smooth as the later system. Much easier to re-roll each level. (I never have HP go lower -- so a lucky high roll at one point may mean you go a few levels without improvement, but an unlucky low roll can be overcome with the next roll.)
How about a system that splits the difference? You MAY reroll the entire batch upon attaining a new level OR you may keep what you have and add to it with a single HD roll? That way players don't feel TOTALLY screwed by crap dice rolls.
Quote from: finarvyn on March 20, 2024, 07:58:35 AM
The problem is pre-Greyhawk OD&D, where HD go from 1+1 to 2 to 2+1 and so on, where sometimes you aren't adding a full die. Going from 2 to 2+1 is a no-brainer, but how to you go from 1+1 to 2? Add a new die and subtract one to account for the old +1?
The "obvious" answer is to subtract 1 from your existing total, then add a new die (this generates the same result as your "add a new die and subtract one", but it's much more defensible). The point of the blogpost was to show that we aren't actually told to do this, we are simply shown an example of an existing 8th level fighting-man.
The reason the obvious answer is to subtract 1 from your existing total and then add a new die is that the table shows us what we have. If the table went 1, then 1+1, then 1, you'd know what to do- you'd roll a hit die and have that, then the next level you'd add one to it, and then the next level you'd subtract the 1 back out. That's because one level has a +1 and the next level does not, so it has to go. Hence, if you rolled 4 and added 1 for 5, when you hit level 2 you'd subtract the 1 out to get 4, and then roll a new die and it in. You wouldn't roll a d5 (nothing says that), or roll a die and subtract 1 (even though that makes the same result), because the table never tells you to add or subtract, the table tells you what you have and you have to make that happen.
The idea that you might instead roll all the dice anew each level is interesting, especially in light of the fact that there's some people claiming that this was what happened at other tables. It doesn't violate the rules, after all.
The idea that you would roll all the dice and take the new one
if higher isn't supported by those rules, but the point that in Empire of the Petal Throne, which was nearly coincident with all the others, does that, means that it was known at the time. Probably Kevin Crawford knew about this when he was scouring old and new mechanics for his
Without Number series, as this is the exact mechanic he uses.
Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on March 20, 2024, 08:42:14 AM
How about a system that splits the difference? You MAY reroll the entire batch upon attaining a new level OR you may keep what you have and add to it with a single HD roll? That way players don't feel TOTALLY screwed by crap dice rolls.
That doesn't "split the difference", that just offers a buff. The player has to make a decision that could be wrong as well. Given that the spirit of the thread seems to be to try to figure out how it was written and played in the 70s, it seems not exactly in the same theme- but hey, I bet someone did that too back then. What's the saying, basically all the mechanics had shown up in some context or other before the early 80s had concluded?
Quote from: David Johansen on March 20, 2024, 12:12:33 AM
I still want to know why characters don't get their zero level hit dice like everyone else does.
I did that for a long time. "Zero" level characters would get a hit die according to their race. And then you'd roll your first level hit points based on your class and use whichever one was higher. This meant that human magic-users would tend to have higher starting hit points than hobbit ones. [But for me the results were more extreme because I had both Ogres and Pixies as default races]
Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on March 20, 2024, 08:42:14 AM
How about a system that splits the difference? You MAY reroll the entire batch upon attaining a new level OR you may keep what you have and add to it with a single HD roll? That way players don't feel TOTALLY screwed by crap dice rolls.
That's only if you use the Gygaxian hit dice system which is fundamentally limited to only 5 possible hit dice progressions (d4, d6, d8, etc). When you design your game from the ground up to use re-roll every level you no longer need to be restricted to that limitation. Hit point progression can start off fast and get slower, start off slow and get faster, stop, or even change hit die types at any point in the character's life.
This is how I implemented Ogres and Giants IMC. They start off young and human sized and get d8 hit points per hit die. But as they grow (which is based on age, not XP) their hit die changes to d10 and, eventually d12. So a character could go from hit points that are 4d8 to 4d10. You can only do something like that with a rerolling-based hit point system.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on March 20, 2024, 11:45:43 AM
That's only if you use the Gygaxian hit dice system which is fundamentally limited to only 5 possible hit dice progressions (d4, d6, d8, etc). When you design your game from the ground up to use re-roll every level you no longer need to be restricted to that limitation. Hit point progression can start off fast and get slower, start off slow and get faster, stop, or even change hit die types at any point in the character's life.
This is how I implemented Ogres and Giants IMC. They start off young and human sized and get d8 hit points per hit die. But as they grow (which is based on age, not XP) their hit die changes to d10 and, eventually d12. So a character could go from hit points that are 4d8 to 4d10. You can only do something like that with a rerolling-based hit point system.
Not that I've ever felt the need to do this, but
IF I wanted to do a game with semi-realistic aging penalties, one of the things that I would do is force a reroll of the entire hit point set with a minus at certain ages, the only difference being that when rolling for age, you take the new total even if it is lower.
This would be especially telling if hit dice were rerolled every level, even past the point where you don't get more. Take an AD&D fighter. Hit name level, roll the 9 dice, get the total. Every level, add in the flat bonus to the roll, and keep rolling. Through a bunch of levels, the tendency is going to be that skew the rolls a bit higher than average. That's even if you start putting on modest age penalties at age 25 or 30. Eventually, the minus from age starts to tell.
Anyway, I've yet to run a game spread out over enough decades where such things would matter. But the idea has always appealed to me. It's also been in the back of my mind to use it as part of the replacement character rules. Typically, I don't make all replacement characters start at level 1, past a certain point of experience by the player in the campaign. However, characters that start at higher levels are not quite as good as characters that are played up from the level 1. Tacking on some age penalties in return for getting to start the character higher would be yet another way to distinguish.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on March 20, 2024, 11:32:30 AMI did that for a long time. "Zero" level characters would get a hit die according to their race.
I just went with your Constitution being your 'starting HP' at Lvl 0. Since the average is ~10, that basically fits most 1E AD&D 0-lvl characters. Of course, I did away with the Con Bonus on every HD, so the math is almost the same (though I had to bump Fighters to d12, and make them the only ones to get d12). And yes, I know this front-loads the characters a bit, but you can still die quickly in combat.
Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on March 20, 2024, 01:11:24 PM
Quote from: hedgehobbit on March 20, 2024, 11:32:30 AMI did that for a long time. "Zero" level characters would get a hit die according to their race.
I just went with your Constitution being your 'starting HP' at Lvl 0. Since the average is ~10, that basically fits most 1E AD&D 0-lvl characters. Of course, I did away with the Con Bonus on every HD, so the math is almost the same (though I had to bump Fighters to d12, and make them the only ones to get d12). And yes, I know this front-loads the characters a bit, but you can still die quickly in combat.
What 0 level character gets 10 HP? A man at arms has 4-7 and non-fighter types have less than that.
Quote from: Venka on March 20, 2024, 02:10:34 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard on March 19, 2024, 07:47:44 PM
The table itself dioes kind of hint at that being the case. A level 1 fighter has 1+1 HD. When 2nd level is reached and the new HD total is 2, if you didn't roll 2 dice what is the alternative?
I think the alternative is that you replace the +1 with the new hit die, which could also be a 1, but could also be higher than a 1.
Quote from: Domina on March 20, 2024, 12:29:36 AM
The alternative is rolling two dice and adding the result to your hp, since it says roll two dice.
This is incorrect and not an alternative. The ways of interpreting it are:
You could subtract out the constant and then roll the new die.
You could reroll all your dice at every level and take that as your total.
A case is made for the method that was allegedly used at other tables, which is:
You could roll all your dice at every level and take that as your total if it is higher.
If you have 5 hit points and achieve level 2, you don't add two dice to the 5. We know this because there's an example that precludes this possibility, and also, no rule tells us to do this.
You could also interpret it as rolling the listed dice at each level and adding to your total.
Quote from: Domina on March 24, 2024, 01:01:43 AM
You could also interpret it as rolling the listed dice at each level and adding to your total.
You need to find some friends and actually play the game. The retarded hill you are trying to die on has a Level 4 Fighting-man with the same hit points as a Level 10 dragon.
Quote from: FingerRod on March 24, 2024, 09:42:51 AM
Quote from: Domina on March 24, 2024, 01:01:43 AM
You could also interpret it as rolling the listed dice at each level and adding to your total.
You need to find some friends and actually play the game. The retarded hill you are trying to die on has a Level 4 Fighting-man with the same hit points as a Level 10 dragon.
If you check this troll's posting history, you'll see that you've given it an almost insurmountable task...
Quote from: Eirikrautha on March 24, 2024, 09:46:29 AM
Quote from: FingerRod on March 24, 2024, 09:42:51 AM
Quote from: Domina on March 24, 2024, 01:01:43 AM
You could also interpret it as rolling the listed dice at each level and adding to your total.
You need to find some friends and actually play the game. The retarded hill you are trying to die on has a Level 4 Fighting-man with the same hit points as a Level 10 dragon.
If you check this troll's posting history, you'll see that you've given it an almost insurmountable task...
Oh wow, it appears that I have.
Quote from: FingerRod on March 24, 2024, 09:42:51 AM
You need to find some friends and actually play the game. The retarded hill you are trying to die on has a Level 4 Fighting-man with the same hit points as a Level 10 dragon.
Why the hostility?
Quote from: Ruprecht on March 24, 2024, 05:44:53 PM
Quote from: FingerRod on March 24, 2024, 09:42:51 AM
You need to find some friends and actually play the game. The retarded hill you are trying to die on has a Level 4 Fighting-man with the same hit points as a Level 10 dragon.
Why the hostility?
I don't think I'm the topic.
You emphasized those words, not me. If anything, I would have emphasized
actually play the game.
Those words changed a normal comment into something personal and hostile. This isn't forchan or something awful so I'm curious why you added the unnecessary insults.
Quote from: Ruprecht on March 24, 2024, 10:08:04 PM
Those words changed a normal comment into something personal and hostile. This isn't forchan or something awful so I'm curious why you added the unnecessary insults.
Check posting histories. Some people are only here to derail...
Quote from: FingerRod on March 24, 2024, 09:42:51 AM
Quote from: Domina on March 24, 2024, 01:01:43 AM
You could also interpret it as rolling the listed dice at each level and adding to your total.
You need to find some friends and actually play the game. The retarded hill you are trying to die on has a Level 4 Fighting-man with the same hit points as a Level 10 dragon.
I have. It is possible to interpret the rule that way, since I interpreted it that way, so I remain correct. Posturing as a bizarrely aggressive sperg because you believe your position is popular is not an argument.
Quote from: Eirikrautha on March 24, 2024, 11:38:04 PM
Quote from: Ruprecht on March 24, 2024, 10:08:04 PM
Those words changed a normal comment into something personal and hostile. This isn't forchan or something awful so I'm curious why you added the unnecessary insults.
Check posting histories. Some people are only here to derail...
Every single one of my posts has been on topic without exception.
Yes, sir, I've been doing it wrong forever in that case, but I started with Basic, which has the new HD added to current HP as shown with my copy paste below.
ROLLING HIT POINTS: Each time a character earns enough ex- perience points to gain a new level, the character gets to roll for more hit points. When starting out, each character rolls one hit die, using the type of die given for the character class. Upon reaching second level, the character rolls the same type of die a second time and adds the result to the first roll. This process is repeated for each new level. The result of each new hit die roll is always added to the total of the other hit die rolls.
Quote from: Ruprecht on March 24, 2024, 10:08:04 PM
Those words changed a normal comment into something personal and hostile. This isn't forchan or something awful so I'm curious why you added the unnecessary insults.
No, you took it that way. Even after I explained what emphasis I would give, if any. You are assuming intent and think you know what was going on between my ears. I didn't say he didn't have friends or was a retard. I said what I said, which was go play the game with your friends and you'll see how ridiculous it is to add the HD each level. Simple as that.
So I've now explained myself twice. I'm done. Instead of pursuing this conversation further, my suggestion for you is to find something else to fill whatever gap you are trying to fill by trying to pick a fight with me because you are proxy offended.
You won't do that, of course. I bet you'll dig in. That is what the perpetually offended do.
Quote from: Domina on March 25, 2024, 12:08:28 AM
I have. It is possible to interpret the rule that way, since I interpreted it that way, so I remain correct. Posturing as a bizarrely aggressive sperg because you believe your position is popular is not an argument.
I'm not making a populous argument. What you are talking about about would almost instantly break the game.
What level did your campaign play into? Level 5, 10, higher?
What version of D&D were you using?
Quote from: FingerRod on March 25, 2024, 09:00:18 AM
Quote from: Domina on March 25, 2024, 12:08:28 AM
I have. It is possible to interpret the rule that way, since I interpreted it that way, so I remain correct. Posturing as a bizarrely aggressive sperg because you believe your position is popular is not an argument.
I'm not making a populous argument. What you are talking about about would almost instantly break the game.
What level did your campaign play into? Level 5, 10, higher?
What version of D&D were you using?
hook, line, and sinker
Quote from: Domina on March 25, 2024, 12:08:28 AM
I have. It is possible to interpret the rule that way, since I interpreted it that way, so I remain correct. Posturing as a bizarrely aggressive sperg because you believe your position is popular is not an argument.
You have not interpreted it that way. You have instead made up something that is
directly contradicted by the text. You do this in a lot of rules threads just to start drama with people who are correct. I'm not sure if you're trolling or earnestly incorrect.
Assuming you are earnestly incorrect, the reason you cannot interpret it this way is because the text on page 18 states:
QuoteDice for Accumulative Hits (Hit Dice): This indicates the number of dice which are rolled in order to determine how many hit points a character can take. Plusses are merely the number of pips to add to the total of all dice rolled not to each die. Thus a Super Hero gets 8 dice + 2; they are rolled and score 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6/totals 26 + 2 = 28, 28 being the number of points of damage the character could sustain before death. Whether sustaining accumulative hits will otherwise affect a character is left to the discretion of the referee.
"Super Hero" is the 8th entry on the Fighting-Men chart on the preceding page.
Your statement "The alternative is rolling two dice and adding the result to your hp, since it says roll two dice" is not an alternative, because it would yield a Super Hero with many more than 8 dice- you would have instead started with 1+1 die, then added 2 dice at 2nd level (a total of 3), etc. Thus a Super Hero would have 36 hit dice (plus 5 hit points), and this is contradicted clearly by the text.
Anyway, we know that a Super Hero has 8 hit dice because we have an example saying so, so any guess at a rule that doesn't do that is not a valid interpretation.
Fascinating and wild, but essentially, we weren't doing it wrong.
The game I am writing was using "roll all your HD at level up, increase your HP if higher, keep old HP if you roll lower", and I may keep some element of that, but I am now using a system closer to gamma world 1e. I guess I just intuitively came to that method myself over time as being more interesting than just rolling one more HD to add on top.
Quote from: FingerRod on March 25, 2024, 09:00:18 AM
Quote from: Domina on March 25, 2024, 12:08:28 AM
I have. It is possible to interpret the rule that way, since I interpreted it that way, so I remain correct. Posturing as a bizarrely aggressive sperg because you believe your position is popular is not an argument.
I'm not making a populous argument. What you are talking about about would almost instantly break the game.
You were making an argument from popularity, since you told me to "get friends", even though it doesn't matter if zero people agree with me or a hundred trillion.
Whether it's game breaking depends entirely on the opposition selected by the GM.
Quote from: Zenoguy3 on March 25, 2024, 12:23:45 PM
Quote from: FingerRod on March 25, 2024, 09:00:18 AM
Quote from: Domina on March 25, 2024, 12:08:28 AM
I have. It is possible to interpret the rule that way, since I interpreted it that way, so I remain correct. Posturing as a bizarrely aggressive sperg because you believe your position is popular is not an argument.
I'm not making a populous argument. What you are talking about about would almost instantly break the game.
What level did your campaign play into? Level 5, 10, higher?
What version of D&D were you using?
hook, line, and sinker
Disagreement is not trolling. If you don't have anything to contribute, don't post.
Quote from: Venka on March 25, 2024, 06:09:33 PM
Quote from: Domina on March 25, 2024, 12:08:28 AM
I have. It is possible to interpret the rule that way, since I interpreted it that way, so I remain correct. Posturing as a bizarrely aggressive sperg because you believe your position is popular is not an argument.
You have not interpreted it that way. You have instead made up something that is directly contradicted by the text. You do this in a lot of rules threads just to start drama with people who are correct. I'm not sure if you're trolling or earnestly incorrect.
I interpreted it that way. Don't tell me what I did or didn't do. Disagreeing with people is not starting drama, and you're not the arbiter of which positions are correct.
Quote from: FingerRod on March 25, 2024, 08:07:15 AM
I said what I said, which was go play the game with your friends and you'll see how ridiculous it is to add the HD each level. Simple as that.
No, you were very obviously trying to imply that I don't have friends and don't actually play the game (never mind that I would still be right regardless). I have friends, we have played the game, and we haven't seen that it is ridiculous, and you will not win the argument by attempting to dictate which experiences are reasonable to have.
Quote from: Domina on March 28, 2024, 10:05:36 PM
Quote from: Venka on March 25, 2024, 06:09:33 PM
Quote from: Domina on March 25, 2024, 12:08:28 AM
I have. It is possible to interpret the rule that way, since I interpreted it that way, so I remain correct. Posturing as a bizarrely aggressive sperg because you believe your position is popular is not an argument.
You have not interpreted it that way. You have instead made up something that is directly contradicted by the text. You do this in a lot of rules threads just to start drama with people who are correct. I'm not sure if you're trolling or earnestly incorrect.
I interpreted it that way. Don't tell me what I did or didn't do. Disagreeing with people is not starting drama, and you're not the arbiter of which positions are correct.
I'll tell you exactly what you didn't do; you didn't
interpret it. An interpretation doesn't contradict the text. Instead, what you said doesn't line up with what is in the book, and I provided the quote proving so. Your misunderstanding about the text preventing what you wrote from being an interpretation.
Disagreeing with people is not inherently starting drama, you're correct about that. But like, separate from that point, you'd agree you do start drama in threads, right?
Also, as far as "not being the arbiter", I mean, anyone is the arbiter of stuff when they are correct. Like me in this case. I can definitely judge a position incorrect if it doesn't line up with the text. What we can't do is come to a conclusion about which of the "subtract the constant and add the new die" or the "roll everything each time" position is correct, based on the text. That was the premise of the blogpost. Within that scenario, I'd generally argue for the progressive thing instead of the reroll. I'd say something like, the reroll itself would be notable enough to include in the text. Or, the reroll isn't obvious enough to count as implication. I'd point out that you can reach the conclusion in the example by a method wherein you add dice and subtract constants, and that this is probably what was being done, as the charts already have other things that don't stick around at each level.
But for all that, the new hypothesis isn't contradicted by the text; it's a valid interpretation, even if I don't think it's the best one.
Something that does contradict the text, however, isn't an interpretation, it's a misunderstanding.
Quote from: Domina on March 28, 2024, 10:05:36 PM
No, you were very obviously trying to imply that I don't have friends and don't actually play the game (never mind that I would still be right regardless). I have friends, we have played the game, and we haven't seen that it is ridiculous, and you will not win the argument by attempting to dictate which experiences are reasonable to have.
What version of D&D? What level campaign? How many typically play in your group who have used this interpretation?
Quote from: Jason Coplen on March 25, 2024, 07:40:09 AMYes, sir, I've been doing it wrong forever in that case, but I started with Basic, which has the new HD added to current HP as shown with my copy paste below.
ROLLING HIT POINTS: Each time a character earns enough ex- perience points to gain a new level, the character gets to roll for more hit points. When starting out, each character rolls one hit die, using the type of die given for the character class. Upon reaching second level, the character rolls the same type of die a second time and adds the result to the first roll. This process is repeated for each new level. The result of each new hit die roll is always added to the total of the other hit die rolls.
What BX says as well.
This whole "Gary really meant you were supposed to reroll your HP EVERY LEVEL!" is just stupid.
Quote from: Omega on May 05, 2024, 06:51:11 AMQuote from: Jason Coplen on March 25, 2024, 07:40:09 AMYes, sir, I've been doing it wrong forever in that case, but I started with Basic, which has the new HD added to current HP as shown with my copy paste below.
ROLLING HIT POINTS: Each time a character earns enough ex- perience points to gain a new level, the character gets to roll for more hit points. When starting out, each character rolls one hit die, using the type of die given for the character class. Upon reaching second level, the character rolls the same type of die a second time and adds the result to the first roll. This process is repeated for each new level. The result of each new hit die roll is always added to the total of the other hit die rolls.
What BX says as well.
This whole "Gary really meant you were supposed to reroll your HP EVERY LEVEL!" is just stupid.
It isn't stupid, it is simply another way of doing things. B/X is far more clear on the matter than page 18 of Men and Magic from OD&D. B/X also did away with plusses to hit dice. Every level is a roll of another die of the appropriate type. Are you saying that the dice for accum. hits on page 18 are cumulative? That would give a warrior (Level2) 3+1 hit dice. We know this isn't the case because the example in the text says that a superhero (level 8) rolls eight dice and adds 2 to the total. Why would a level 8 be rolling 8 dice if the total was not meant to superceed the dice rolled at level 7? It is an interesting method for sure and completely possible.
Yeah... riiiiight.
Quote from: Omega on May 05, 2024, 06:51:11 AMWhat BX says as well.
This whole "Gary really meant you were supposed to reroll your HP EVERY LEVEL!" is just stupid.
Nobody is claiming that Gary Gygax did hit points this way. Only that some people in Dave Arneson's group did it this way. And since Dave's D&D predates Gygax's D&D, his method is the original method (and, as people have pointed out, it is just objectively mechanically superior).