I was looking around and I found this page of stuff done by a guy I used to know back in Perth. He was a Hârn fiend. I played RQ with him once, but I think he thought it was a bit lightweight.

Well, I made my character today. He's strong but not very agile. Popular, but kind of dumb and not well spoken. He's also got epilepsy which should be interesting. Corruptible and average looking.

The charts are very old school looking which is fun and I'm looking forward to playing come Wednesday. Kyle - there had better be some sort of fight, just so I get to use those charts!

As I learned in a rather slow campaign which you also experienced, Olive, fun things like violence don't just happen - you have to make them happen.

If nothing else, the PCs should have a practice fight with wooden swords or something, just so that we're familiar with the system, and nobody gets any rude shocks in their first real combat, with limbs flying off in random directions.

That page looks good, droog, thanks for linking us to it. I like this quote,

HârnMaster           is the best fantasy roleplaying system I've ever GM'ed.          However, even the best systems need a few additions, deletions and alterations

That's the voice of a true GM

Quote from: Kyle AaronAs I learned in a rather slow campaign which you also experienced, Olive, fun things like violence don't just happen - you have to make them happen.

I tired! But that game had a slight issue that it seemed that not every one was on the same page as far as 'what is acceptable in public' goes...

QuoteIf nothing else, the PCs should have a practice fight with wooden swords or something, just so that we're familiar with the system, and nobody gets any rude shocks in their first real combat, with limbs flying off in random directions.

That's a good idea. I'll make sure it happens.

You just need strong will to make things happen in a game session - players can wear the Viking Hat, too! :viking: Even girl gamers! :valkyrie:

"That is not acceptable in public."
"Oh no?"
"No."
:maniac:

Violence doesn't solve everything, but you never know until you try. I mean, as you know, Olive, two of the players already arm-wrestled to decide the game system.

I have a feeling HarnMaster will be a very brutal and lethal combat system in play. One sign of that is the random and quick character generation.

Quote from: Kyle AaronI have a feeling HarnMaster will be a very brutal and lethal combat system in play. One sign of that is the random and quick character generation.

We've had two sessions now, and the campaign is going well. It's got that "slow but speeding up" feeling you often have when some of the players are new to each-other, and new to the game setting/system. Everyone's just settling in.

The rules are interesting. We had a duel last night, and made mistakes with some of the rules, nonetheless as it was it was a good duel - there were exchanges of blows, wounds on both sides, before one was struck in the hip and fell, and was then dispatched by a spear blow in the abdomen.

The system has a "Universal Penalty" for each character, which is their encumbrance level, plus any fatigue malus, plus any wounds they've taken. Sometimes you must roll your Endurance (a 3-18 scale number, usually 9-12) using this Universal Penalty, to see if you stay up.

There are two kinds of Endurance rolls in combat,

• The Fumble/Stumble roll - when given any wound on a limb, roll 3d6 + current penalties (fatigue, wound, encumbrance) against Endurance; roll above and drop what you're holding or fall over.
  
• The Shock roll - every time a character takes a new injury, roll 1d6 for each level of the total penalty (fatigue, wound, encumbrance). Rolling above Endurance means you collapse from fatigue and pain.

So, when struck on a limb, roll Shock (1d6 per level) and Fumble/Stumble (3d6 + penalty), and when struck elsewhere, just roll Shock.

No, I do not know why they are different dice mechanics. Yes, this will make people fall over quite a bit more quickly than you might expect. 3 or 4 Minor Wounds, or one Serious Wound, combined with the -1 or -2 Encumbrance from bearing arms and armour, will probably knock you over.

What do you guys think about all that?

We've had a bunch of sessions now and it's been a good fun game but for the life of me I can't tell how the system has contributed or taken away from that experience.

Kyle, take this as a compliment: the games you run mean that you barely notice the system most of the time. I like systems. I like rules, but you have a confidence around the rules that doesn't let them intrude.

Plus, if I do say so myself, a group of players who allow you to do this.

So I've been meaning to post to this forum about Harn for ages, but I don't feel like I have anything useful to say other than the fact that the system doesn't get in the way of some fun roleplaying.

Quote from: Kyle AaronWhat experiences have people had with HârnMaster?

I had awful experiences, back when 1st edition came out. That was a long time ago and I don't remember all that well except that vague sentiment of dinosaur-ish design and play experience typical of misguided, over-detailed games.

But last saturday, I had a meeting with very old gamer friends. We hadn't met in over a decade and some of them continued to use Harnmaster. This is a supposedly true story, using Harnmaster (I do not know which edition) recounted by the two players involved. I was quite inebriated but I'll remember it forever.

They were playing two swordsmen in a war-torn area of Harn. As they travel, an agressive wild cat who looks like he could really use a snack roars at them. One of the swordsman continues but the other one decides to taunt the beast. After "playing" with the cat while the other swordsman pleads for them to depart quietly, the wild cat has enough. Combat ensues.

The swordsman fumbles badly.
The beast claws at his forearm (it is his sword arm). He drops his sword.
Next, he uses an action to grab the sword and fails (what the fuck?) and while bent over, the wild cat also misses while launching forward (again, what the fucking fuck?).
At which point, the other swordsman comes in play (mouvement restriction and getting his sword ready or some other retarded shit)
The other swordsman hits the beast, which flees.

Combat ends. The taunting swordsman arm is hurt badly, the guy is bleeding. They travel as fast as they can. Thanks to wonderful travel charts and weather charts, they go through hell for many, many hours until in the small hours of morning, they find a damaged inn.

The innkeepers are long dead (war) and the inn is in bad shape but there are a few refugees inside. And there seems to be two, possibly three factions. Nobody trusts nobody, apparently due to some reaction charts and conflicts involved.

Eventually, they lock themselves in a room after some negociations. But nobody will help with the swordsman injuries (they have neither the will to do so, nor the skills, something that is again decided by social role charts and stuff).

The prudent swordsman does his best to care for the taunting swordsman but after a while, it is evident that infection is setting in. Unfortunately, the charts determine that weather is bad. The prudent swordsman decides to chop the other guy's arm, just before the elbow.

More time passes. More boring, ultra-realistic Harn-ish negociations follow. Infection still there. Swordsman decides to chop just above the elbow.

More adventures follow in the inn. This time the prudent swordsman goes so far as to accomplish tasks so he can actually buy the single axe (owned by a warrior refugee at the inn) just in case he needs to chop again. (I am crying due to extreme laughter at this point of the story).

As luck would have it, infection, puss and crap is still there apparently. This time he hacks part of the shoulder, as cleanly as possible with the axe. The poor guy totally fumbles his first try and hits the taunting swordsman in the ribcage (what. the. fuck.). It is not too bd a wound, fortunately. A second try and he cuts off the infected arm clean! Yay!

You probably know what's coming. But here goes anyway. He patches the guy up. They wait a while for the guy to get better and as they decide to continue their journey (they've managed to trade stuff for a mule), they discover that the taunting swordsman has another infection.

From the fucking cut on his ribcage.

Jesus fucking Christ. They were telling me of this adventure with a mix of amusement but also admiration for the game and system. Meanwhile, all I could do was laugh my ass off.

Well, aside from combat, the system is just a plain old vanilla roll-under percentile one. That's pretty unobtrusive unless the GM is a real drongo and asks for constant dice rolls.

The other aspect is GMing. As I've said before, the GM can offer two types of challenges to players and characters: obstacles (traps, monsters, etc) and complications (dilemmas and stuff). Obstacles challenge the player's brains, their dice and the character's ability levels; complications challenge the player's brain. So the system really comes forth with the obstacles, not so much the complications.

I try to put some of both in game sessions, but the complications tend to be remembered a lot more by players. So they forget about the system.

Consonant Dude's described session is an excellent example of all obstacles and no complications, combined with GM stupidity. If you make everyone make enough dice rolls then eventually everyone will die however smart or stupid the players and their characters are. Daft stuff.

PS I don't use the infection rules. People roleplay to do cool stuff. Gangrene's not cool.

Quote from: Kyle AaronPS I don't use the infection rules. People roleplay to do cool stuff. Gangrene's not cool.

We've already agreed to disagree about that.

Quote from: Consonant DudeThe swordsman fumbles badly.
The beast claws at his forearm (it is his sword arm). He drops his sword.
Next, he uses an action to grab the sword and fails (what the fuck?) and while bent over, the wild cat also misses while launching forward (again, what the fucking fuck?).

Ok, quite aside form the other bits of this story, what exactly is wrong with not being able to pick up a sword in a heated combat situation? Or with someone (the cat) missing?

what am I not getting here?

Quote from: OliveWe've already agreed to disagree about that.

The infection numbers would be influenced by conditions. So if you get injured, say, up in the mountains where none of the characters there are real physicians or have any proper medical gear, the chances of infections are pretty good.

So, had we had the infection rules, we wouldn't be talking about what the rules are like because there'd be a TPK and we'd be onto the next campaign

Quote from: Kyle AaronThe infection numbers would be influenced by conditions. So if you get injured, say, up in the mountains where none of the characters there are real physicians or have any proper medical gear, the chances of infections are pretty good.

So, had we had the infection rules, we wouldn't be talking about what the rules are like because there'd be a TPK and we'd be onto the next campaign

Anyone would think you don't know what the phrase "agree to disagree" actually meant.

Quote from: OliveOk, quite aside form the other bits of this story, what exactly is wrong with not being able to pick up a sword in a heated combat situation? Or with someone (the cat) missing?

what am I not getting here?

I think it's the comedy of failures that I find weird. Also, the language barrier makes it difficult for me to explain the situation in all its splendor but you know in cartoons when for instance, the Coyote (flying with a rocket up his ass) barely misses the Roadrunner because the latter bends down at the last second to check something out?

That's what I envision when I figure an un-cinematic swordsman not being able to grab his sword and a wild cat missing his attack on a vulnerable opponent