See, any game that requires a SPREADSHEET to make your character has something of  problem on its hands.

RPGPundit

A&8's doesn't Require it, but it makes it easy. I think I've used Character Spreadsheets for every game I've ever played(including Amber), except maybe TOON.

Quote from: RPGPundit;519972See, any game that requires a SPREADSHEET to make your character has something of  problem on its hands.

RPGPundit

Not necessarily, although in my experience if the guy who designed the spreadsheet also controls the webspace for the game company's software AND is also a bullying control freak, requiring the spreadsheet to make the character sure doesn't help.  

JG

Quote from: RPGPundit;519972See, any game that requires a SPREADSHEET to make your character has something of  problem on its hands.

RPGPundit

Agreed. I've become HUGELY tired with this. Simple character sheets. 20 minutes character gen, just a bunch of numbers on paper, NOT a shitload of information is what I am looking for now.

Quote from: Benoist;520128Agreed. I've become HUGELY tired with this. Simple character sheets. 20 minutes character gen, just a bunch of numbers on paper, NOT a shitload of information is what I am looking for now.

Captain *nods* rides again.

Quote from: James Gillen;520126Not necessarily, although in my experience if the guy who designed the spreadsheet also controls the webspace for the game company's software AND is also a bullying control freak, requiring the spreadsheet to make the character sure doesn't help.  

JG

Not so in this case though!

Quote from: Benoist;520128Agreed. I've become HUGELY tired with this. Simple character sheets. 20 minutes character gen, just a bunch of numbers on paper, NOT a shitload of information is what I am looking for now.

So what about a lifepath game where you might spend a session making a character

I wrote a cyberpunk game we played for years (88 - 98) and that had 3 char gen options.
It was skills based so the Simple version took 20 mins - spend poitns buy skills
The lifepath option 1 which was some basic lifepath then spend points on each section - 1 hour
the full version - a good 4 hour session maybe longer with random skills + some choice and loads of random life events.

They all yeild characters with roughly the same number and level of skills but the full session was great. Basically ran through each PC year with events income purchases, injury rivalries all sorts.

When you end up with one PC (Dragard D'Bard) who is now a drug dealer but used to be a Pop star with 3 top ten hits and a season and a half as the sidekick on the Vancouver Connection, and a Japanese ex-wife and a minor addiction to Blu who now runs a real time sat feed from a floating cam bot and is trying to get it into the top 100 cam bot feeds so he can secure a sponsorship deal in order to give him the full blood wash he needs but can't afford. And another (SloWorm) that is a freelance assassin having been a failed gang member who did time for boosting hovercars but then met a guy who got him a contact with the Yakusa where he was eventually taken on as a hit man but quickly fell into disgrace following the Jessop Incident and who has a cheap clone replacement arm that doesn't quite match the skin colour of his other arm.
Then you know you have a full and developed character generation system

Yea, the more in-depth character generation, the better I like it. That sounds like a fun session. I've done similar sessions before and they always have done well.

Quote from: greylond;520151Not so in this case though!

You seem to have failed to see that it's not about character creation, but about finding every single damn flaw of HackMaster already, to prove that ThatGuyWhoCreatedIt&Co were fools for not going with the OSR or something.

greylond, thanks for explaining the ability scores thing. i like it, neat system.

i've been intrigued with HM ever since this thread but never got around to getting the books.  one day. . .  

I'd rather that the complexities of a character's background end up being the product of play, rather than already coming fully-loaded at the beginning.

Background story is like a very strong spice; just a tiny bit makes a recipe better, but cross the line even slightly and it blocks any other flavour from emerging.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Rincewind1;520197You seem to have failed to see that it's not about character creation, but about finding every single damn flaw of HackMaster already, to prove that ThatGuyWhoCreatedIt&Co were fools for not going with the OSR or something.

Heh, yea, I'm used to it. HM is designed by a very small group of writers. The newest version they are purposely going with their own mechanics so that they have total control over it and can make sure that the game is of a quality that they like. K&Co D-Team not only plays it, but they write it so that it ends up being a game that they would love to play. It has a specific design style that harkens back to the style of 1st Edition AD&D as played by grongards/Engineers. That style isn't for everyone, it is definitely isn't for anyone who only likes very simple rules systems.

Quote from: Benoist;520128Agreed. I've become HUGELY tired with this. Simple character sheets. 20 minutes character gen, just a bunch of numbers on paper, NOT a shitload of information is what I am looking for now.

And your character info had better fit on a 3x5 card.  Seriously, I'm tired of multi-page character sheets.

Quote from: misterguignol;520401Seriously, I'm tired of multi-page character sheets.

But that's what this thread is about...

That's fine, to each his own, as long as you have fun. HM is designed for people who like in depth character creation. Sounds like that isn't you...