How to Sandbox

AsenRG · August 16, 2017, 02:44:31 AM

Quote from: soltakss;983633And this is what I hate about Sandbox discussions.

Why shouldn't I use a pre-written setting? I can put a Sandbox in the Plains of Prax, in Sherwood Forest or on the Planet of the Amazon Women. The fact that someone else has written them up doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't use them.

Of course you can, but now I have a question.
Where can I buy The Planet Of Amazonian Women:D?

Quote from: Omega;983663Theres nuts now wanting to define sandbox RPGing as something with a defined focus and plot. Because real sanboxes have limits. I kid you not.

Link, please;)?

Quote from: Omega;983703Back on topic.

Theres alot of ways to go about sanboxing as has been shown before things went off to loony land.

Ive found that one thing that can dictate or at least nudge things in one direction or another is the players. Some styles of sandboxing really need proactive players who get their characters out there and doing things. Reactionary players can be harder to work with depending on the type. Some will become aggressive and participatory once they have something to react to. Others are very passive and look to the DM to lead them. Some players need some threads to grab onto and run with and aren't all that good at just going out and making stuff happen. But are great with choosing and dealing with a situation once they see it. Others will forge off and do whatever. Possibly ignoring all threads.

Theres probably other types. But those were the types of players Ive dealt with myself. or another is the players. Some styles of sandboxing really need proactive players who get their characters out there and doing things. Reactionary players can be harder to work with depending on the type. Some will become aggressive and participatory once they have something to react to. Others are very passive and look to the DM to lead them. Some players need some threads to grab onto and run with and aren't all that good at just going out and making stuff happen. But are great with choosing and dealing with a situation once they see it. Others will forge off and do whatever. Possibly ignoring all threads.

Theres probably other types. But those were the types of players Ive dealt with myself.
or another is the players. Some styles of sandboxing really need proactive players who get their characters out there and doing things. Reactionary players can be harder to work with depending on the type. Some will become aggressive and participatory once they have something to react to. Others are very passive and look to the DM to lead them. Some players need some threads to grab onto and run with and aren't all that good at just going out and making stuff happen. But are great with choosing and dealing with a situation once they see it. Others will forge off and do whatever. Possibly ignoring all threads.

Theres probably other types. But those were the types of players Ive dealt with myself. or another is the players. Some styles of sandboxing really need proactive players who get their characters out there and doing things. Reactionary players can be harder to work with depending on the type. Some will become aggressive and participatory once they have something to react to. Others are very passive and look to the DM to lead them. Some players need some threads to grab onto and run with and aren't all that good at just going out and making stuff happen. But are great with choosing and dealing with a situation once they see it. Others will forge off and do whatever. Possibly ignoring all threads.

Theres probably other types. But those were the types of players Ive dealt with myself. or another is the players. Some styles of sandboxing really need proactive players who get their characters out there and doing things. Reactionary players can be harder to work with depending on the type. Some will become aggressive and participatory once they have something to react to. Others are very passive and look to the DM to lead them. Some players need some threads to grab onto and run with and aren't all that good at just going out and making stuff happen. But are great with choosing and dealing with a situation once they see it. Others will forge off and do whatever. Possibly ignoring all threads.

Theres probably other types. But those were the types of players Ive dealt with myself.

How do you deal with reactionary players? Personally, the best I've found is to require themto have motivations, and to have some PC or NPC offer them a deal to do something.

QuoteAs a player Im told Im very good at making things happen. This is often unintentional. I just like to interact with the game world and that tends to lead to crazy stuff happening. But Im the sort who steps back and lets the characters with the applicable skills do their thing. I will though maneuver around other PCs if I think they are making a mistake and not listening. Which is how I ended up inadvertently saving Castle Greyhawk.

Now that's a story I want to hear;).
Oops. I said "story" in a sandbox thread:p!

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;983854Wait, here's something interesting.How do you handle those situations? I've dealt with that a few times myself.

With archers and fire;)?

Interesting enough, nobody commented on my suggestion to use relationship maps instead of (or rather, overlaid on) the usual maps. I wonder why. Is that something everyone is doing anyway, so it's not worth the virtual ink?

S'mon · August 16, 2017, 02:57:28 AM

Quote from: AsenRG;984069Interesting enough, nobody commented on my suggestion to use relationship maps instead of (or rather, overlaid on) the usual maps. I wonder why. Is that something everyone is doing anyway, so it's not worth the virtual ink?

I know my sandboxes are normally as much NPC-based as location-based. But I never found drawing lines between names very useful. I just have a lot of NPC descriptions which include notes on their goals and relation to PCs and other NPCs.

nope · August 16, 2017, 11:03:29 AM

Quote from: Bren;983986Best post on this topic in quite a few pages.

While I realize it's more condemnation of the conversation than praise for my obvious and low-hanging analogy, I appreciate the sentiment regardless.

darthfozzywig · August 16, 2017, 01:37:35 PM

Quote from: AsenRG;984069Interesting enough, nobody commented on my suggestion to use relationship maps instead of (or rather, overlaid on) the usual maps. I wonder why. Is that something everyone is doing anyway, so it's not worth the virtual ink?

I try to do them in addition to geographic/political maps. The more complex (and frankly, realistic) I get with socio-political networks, the more important it is for me to graph them so I can keep it straight.

On a more local level, I remember WFRP's "Power Behind the Throne" as the most complicated adventure I'd ever run, because of the need to track a large number of NPCs, what they knew (or thought they knew), where they'd be, and when, over the course of that critical week, and then the network relationships between the various NPCs and PCs.

AsenRG · August 16, 2017, 03:38:39 PM

Quote from: S'mon;984071I know my sandboxes are normally as much NPC-based as location-based. But I never found drawing lines between names very useful. I just have a lot of NPC descriptions which include notes on their goals and relation to PCs and other NPCs.

Well, if the "relations" include who's paying fealty to whom, and so on, they might as well be on a map:). Whether you draw it is a matter of convenience and preference.

Quote from: darthfozzywig;984244I try to do them in addition to geographic/political maps. The more complex (and frankly, realistic) I get with socio-political networks, the more important it is for me to graph them so I can keep it straight.

On a more local level, I remember WFRP's "Power Behind the Throne" as the most complicated adventure I'd ever run, because of the need to track a large number of NPCs, what they knew (or thought they knew), where they'd be, and when, over the course of that critical week, and then the network relationships between the various NPCs and PCs.

Yeah, that's why I said "overlaid on". And the best part is you can use the outstanding results for future games in the same setting. A vendetta spanning 100 years isn't even unusual, and that's enough for the whole setting to change;).

Never seen said adventure, but I tend to find such tracking fun, especially when the players unearth successfully what an NPC thinks he knows, except only 20 to 50% of it is true:D!

Bren · August 16, 2017, 08:01:05 PM

Quote from: Antiquation!;984196While I realize it's more condemnation of the conversation than praise for my obvious and low-hanging analogy, I appreciate the sentiment regardless.

Regardless of the circumstances I like the analogy.

Quote from: AsenRG;984069Interesting enough, nobody commented on my suggestion to use relationship maps instead of (or rather, overlaid on) the usual maps. I wonder why. Is that something everyone is doing anyway, so it's not worth the virtual ink?

I don't do instead or overlaid, but I have used relationship maps. I blogged about it here and here.

Crimhthan · August 17, 2017, 08:39:11 AM

Quote from: Bren;984364I don't do instead or overlaid, but I have used relationship maps. I blogged about it here and here.

Thank you for the links, I had never run across that blog before, yeah I know I should have checked out the links in your signature, but some people link to things that are NSFW which means they are also NSFHome either. I am a little more trusting of links in threads because there is usually more context with them.

Great blog post.

Bren · August 18, 2017, 05:23:47 PM

Quote from: Crimhthan;984526Thank you for the links, I had never run across that blog before, yeah I know I should have checked out the links in your signature, but some people link to things that are NSFW which means they are also NSFHome either. I am a little more trusting of links in threads because there is usually more context with them.

Great blog post.

Glad you found something useful. There's no reason you should have run across it. It has a somewhat narrow focus: swashbuckling, the 16th and 17th centuries in Europe especially France, and the Honor+Intrigue system.

WillInNewHaven · August 19, 2017, 10:58:43 AM

Quote from: soltakss;983596For example, there is a bandit clan, led by Hawk One-Eye, who raid the surrounding villages from their mountain hideout. The PCs hear about bandit raids now and again, they might even see a bandit raid or meet a small group of bandits in the wilds. Hawk One-Eye is raiding to get rich and also to cover up the stealing of artefacts that he is planning to use to summon a long-dead bandit king, so he can unite the various bandit clans. Does this count as a plot? Does it have a place in a sandbox?

Hawk One-Eye is plotting, so it's a plot. It could certainly fit in a sandbox. it would be interesting to see when the player-characters interacted in a big way, if they ever do, with the bandits. If the game rules include character advancement, it might be optimal for them to avoid dealing with the bandits until they are advanced enough to defeat them fairly certainly but not so advanced that it would be boring. However, the characters in my campaigns don't know from level and kept bumping up against the very similar bandit clan in the Lake Country setting. Since it's a sandbox, the bandits tended to advance in skills at a pace almost equal to the PCs so finally dealing with them was not boring.