io9 (http://io9.com/5938988/whats-coming-next-for-dungeons--dragons-and-forgotten-realms)
QuoteThe most startling news out of the keynote was the stopgap that will keep gamers happy (and buying stuff) through 2013: Wizards plans to release every single D&D product from the game's historied past in digital form. Every edition, every sourcebook, every adventure. This is surprising not only because it's a very ambitious undertaking, but because Wizards shut down all ebooks three years ago. That's right: official, legal digital versions of D&D books have not existed since early 2009. This is quite a turnaround.
Now they're putting out something I would buy!
Not news.
Possibly not pdfs.
Maybe subsciption based.
Waiting and seeing.
As an Old Fogie myself, I agree that it will be good to have 4e books finally in electronic format. :cool:
But no Boot Hill, Gamma World, Top Secret, Dawn Patrol, Gangbusters, or Starfrontiers...
Color me unimpressed.
I would not be surprised those other lines come out too. If they own the material, there is no good reason to not add everything TSR to the ebook pile.
I guess the anti-PDF guy got fired and a pro-PDF guy got promoted. Or the CEO just learned the concept of "long tail" in a Six Sigma Black Belt Ultra weekend seminar and now demands that all departments jump on this long tail bandwagon thingie.
Quote from: Skywalker;578227As an Old Fogie myself, I agree that it will be good to have 4e books finally in electronic format. :cool:
Haha, well played, sir, well played.
I will only get excited and start setting aside cash if there is a POD part of this.
I want modules I can touch and feel. I want to stand the cover with the map up behind my DM screen and scribble notes in the margins. I want the cheetos stains on page 8 to be a reminder of how awesome a particular night of gaming was.
Most importantly, I don't want to fucking rent it.
Quote from: David Johansen;578236But no Boot Hill, Gamma World, Top Secret, Dawn Patrol, Gangbusters, or Starfrontiers...
Color me unimpressed.
While I feel for you (and me) on everything else Star Frontiers is available for free online in remastered format (and yes legitimately.)
yeah, I know, but I want to feel hurt and neglected :D
Quote from: Spinachcat;578251I guess the anti-PDF guy got fired and a pro-PDF guy got promoted.
So far I don't believe they've said anything about pdfs at all. They may have a subscription ebook model instead.
If they release the pdfs again, they can have some of my money. If they try to bilk me for a monthly fee, they can fuck off.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;578291Most importantly, I don't want to fucking rent it.
This, a million times this.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;578309If they release the pdfs again, they can have some of my money. If they try to bilk me for a monthly fee, they can fuck off.
Exactly. I'll buy PDFs, assuming they are reasonable priced, printable and copy/paste enabled. I will not do a monthly fee for access -- at least not for the type of access they used on DDI.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;578291I want the cheetos stains on page 8 to be a reminder of how awesome a particular night of gaming was.
That was beautiful.
Quote from: David Johansen;578236But no Boot Hill, Gamma World, Top Secret, Dawn Patrol, Gangbusters, or Starfrontiers...
Color me unimpressed.
No Gamma World or Star Frontiers?
*Nerdrages!!!!!!!*
Quote from: David Johansen;578236But no Boot Hill, Gamma World, Top Secret, Dawn Patrol, Gangbusters, or Starfrontiers...
Color me unimpressed.
Star Frontiers is free and legal for the taking.
I still want to flesh out the rest of my SAGA library of physical books. But nothing I want nor need in the electronic versions. I have all the other TSR and WotC books I want already.
Surely this is good news for the Newbies not the fogies.
I already have copies of all the 1e D&D books I want. I am not going to get new copies just because. Its like my copy of LotR is from 1959 and was my mum's. I have no intention of replacing it (well them as its 3 volumes).
The fogies have already got all the TRS junk they need. Its the Newbies who haven't been able to buy it.
Quote from: jibbajibba;578673Surely this is good news for the Newbies not the fogies.
I already have copies of all the 1e D&D books I want. I am not going to get new copies just because. Its like my copy of LotR is from 1959 and was my mum's. I have no intention of replacing it (well them as its 3 volumes).
The fogies have already got all the TRS junk they need. Its the Newbies who haven't been able to buy it.
I would say its a mix. There is some stuff that I didn't have the money for back then that I would like to purchase now.
Quote from: jibbajibba;578673Surely this is good news for the Newbies not the fogies.
It's good for all D&Ders, which is kind of the point.
eh, it's only good news if it comes without needing a subscription.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;578675I would say its a mix. There is some stuff that I didn't have the money for back then that I would like to purchase now.
This is very much me.
From 12 to 22, I was super-broke, so I missed out on a lot of 80's product that I would like a second chance at without getting gouged on eBay.
Also, zero chance I'm paying monthly, though I feel pretty confident that will somehow be their approach.
Wonder if us poor sods who bought pdfs of stuff back in the day (all legit like) will get some kind of nod, but I seriously doubt it.
Fuck Wizards. Fools all.
Yeah, there's some stuff from the 80s which I couldn't afford (bus fare + train fare + D&D book) that would be great to have now. I'd love to fill out my Gamma World section and D&D modules.
But I made that trek to the city so that I could buy and own and keep the product. Sure they sat in a closet for over a decade during the 90s but they're mine and I still got 'em and am playing 'em now. If I had just borrowed them from a library (or some such), those books wouldn't be available to me.
Similarly, any PDF must be mine to own and keep. There's a lot that in POD would be an insta-purchase for me. But a subscription program can't compete with all the good OSR stuff that's sitting on my shelf or hard drive right now. PDFs with no-print/no-annotate/no-copy-paste are equally bloody stupid.
Sell some PDFs (and POD) and make a bunch of ol' farts very happy. Otherwise yer pissing off a bunch of D&D-loyal customers, many of whom just bought your corebook reprints.
Its going to come with something: they'll either be charging for the PDFs individually, or it'll be some kind of subscription service for online access, or something else I'm not conceiving of right now. I think that of the options, straightforward PDF buying would probably be their best bet. They can get people to register on their site, then pay per PDF.
If out of "fear of piracy" they try to go with some kind of subscription online-only thing, its a stupid move: it'll alienate people, and there's a good chance those products will end up on the filesharing networks anyways.
I mean honestly, are there any TSR products that people actually want that you can't find via filesharing ALREADY? So what do they have to lose at this point?
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;579442If out of "fear of piracy" they try to go with some kind of subscription online-only thing, its a stupid move: it'll alienate people, and there's a good chance those products will end up on the filesharing networks anyways.
Given that WotC have been unable to provide a subscription model for PDFs previously, I seriously doubt that is the route they will take. They could only really do that effectively, if they stripped the products of their information and made it into some kind of online service which would be difficult and, well, weird.
Quote from: Skywalker;579488Given that WotC have been unable to provide a subscription model for PDFs previously, I seriously doubt that is the route they will take. They could only really do that effectively, if they stripped the products of their information and made it into some kind of online service which would be difficult and, well, weird.
Yes, I imagine that it would be much easier to just sell the PDFs themselves. But you never know.
RPGPundit
Let's assume WotC are striving to this "Unite the RPG crowd back under the D&D banner". And that making the OOP games available is an attempt at bringing back the OSR gamers who are currently happy with their Labyrinth Lord, OSRIC, LotFP, etc. etc.
So you want me back? Make me happy. There's a lot to choose from out there and the small publishers that provide great product (in the format of my choice) make me happy get my money.
The reprinting of the AD&D corebooks was a good start - I bought them, I'm happy. Give me access to legal PDFs (and POD) so I can get a module or two, or searchable monster manuals on my tablet and the option to print out just the pages I need for a given game, I'll be happy. Dick me around with usage restrictions and I'll be angry at the man.
If I have any brand-loyalty, it's with the OSR materials I've already got. If WotC wants in, they're going to have to offer something just as good. Straight PDFs with an added option for POD. Do like Précis Intermedia Games do.
You know what I'd like to see them do?
Re-release all that old stuff with a D&D5e conversion included. I don't care if it's just a few page appendix at the end that says, "Use these stats instead."
That way not only do I get access back to all of my favorite adventures of yore, but I can use them for my 5e games as well.
I've been gaming and designing games for a long time, so if need be I'm sure I could do the conversion myself. But since 5e is still new, I'd rather have an official conversion if possible--something I could play right after downloading without extra work.
Now, I'm not saying 5e is replacing my edition of choice (1e with 2e elements), but it seems easy enough to houserule those things I don't like, and so far my experience has shown me that I can play it a lot like I play AD&D now. Being able to have current support as the "main" edition, as well as increasing the player base for that edition are bonuses.
Quote from: RPGPundit;579939Yes, I imagine that it would be much easier to just sell the PDFs themselves. But you never know.
Too true, especially where WotC are concerned. :)
Quote from: RPGPundit;579442I mean honestly, are there any TSR products that people actually want that you can't find via filesharing ALREADY? So what do they have to lose at this point?
Exactly. They can make
some money from selling the pdfs and accept some loss to piracy or they can make
no money while the pirates distribute the products anyway.
Last time I checked, some was more than none.
Listen up, Whizbros. I'm one of the suckers who, despite knowing exactly where to get your products for free, is willing to play for the privilege anyway, to get a clean scanned pdf with book marks and avoid the fileshare sites. The cash in my wallet is yours for the taking if you don't screw this up . . . again.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;580151Exactly. They can make some money from selling the pdfs and accept some loss to piracy or they can make no money while the pirates distribute the products anyway.
Last time I checked, some was more than none.
Listen up, Whizbros. I'm one of the suckers who, despite knowing exactly where to get your products for free, is willing to play for the privilege anyway, to get a clean scanned pdf with book marks and avoid the fileshare sites. The cash in my wallet is yours for the taking if you don't screw this up . . . again.
Yup. Heck if I can get decent quality POD product then I will pay again for product I already own in addition to stuff I don't have.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;580312Yup. Heck if I can get decent quality POD product then I will pay again for product I already own in addition to stuff I don't have.
Now that's an interesting idea; how hard would it be for them to do POD on most of these things?
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;580767Now that's an interesting idea; how hard would it be for them to do POD on most of these things?
RPGPundit
Well, if small time OSR companies can offer decent POD products via Lulu then WOTC doesn't have an excuse except not wanting to.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;580783Well, if small time OSR companies can offer decent POD products via Lulu then WOTC doesn't have an excuse except not wanting to.
It could be quite a moneymaker.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Sacrosanct;580045You know what I'd like to see them do?
Re-release all that old stuff with a D&D5e conversion included. I don't care if it's just a few page appendix at the end that says, "Use these stats instead."
That way not only do I get access back to all of my favorite adventures of yore, but I can use them for my 5e games as well.
I've been gaming and designing games for a long time, so if need be I'm sure I could do the conversion myself. But since 5e is still new, I'd rather have an official conversion if possible--something I could play right after downloading without extra work.
Now, I'm not saying 5e is replacing my edition of choice (1e with 2e elements), but it seems easy enough to houserule those things I don't like, and so far my experience has shown me that I can play it a lot like I play AD&D now. Being able to have current support as the "main" edition, as well as increasing the player base for that edition are bonuses.
I like this quite a bit. "Play Forgotten Realms of any era with 5e!"
Damnit, I would POD the WHOLE FUCKING 2E LIBRARY!!!!
Twice!
I'm sure there'd be quite a lot of people who'd go extremely overboard with this, to WoTC's benefit.
RPGPundit
There would definitely be a Gold Rush effect as people tried to get their copies before WotC yanked it all again.
Quote from: CRKrueger;581716There would definitely be a Gold Rush effect as people tried to get their copies before WotC yanked it all again.
If they did that, it'd be worst than the last time. It'd be a PR catastrophe.
RPGPundit