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Gods in RPGs. Do you like it best when they're:

1. The final "boss" for you to kill in a campaign?
2. Dudes who are around often and do lots of things in the setting?
3. Unreachable beings that don't interact much in the setting?
4. Incomprehensible entities that would make your whole face bleed just to gaze upon them?
5. Adventurers who attained immortality and incredible power levels, and your PCs can eventually get to be that too?

Note that most of these are not exclusive, you can sign up to more than one option.

RPGPundit

I think the gods were done really well in the Hercules/Xena TV series. I prefer them to interfere in mortal affairs, but also employ human henchmen to get the job done. They are fallible, but must be outsmarted rather than taken head-on. So I'd say #1 and #3.

I find #3 the best typically.  I rather DO like Stephen Brust's take, with the Gods being 'available' if you happen to get good enough to be a world shaker (or, you know... being a mortal who traverses the pathes of the Dead to help a dude out...)... while still being essentially untouchable and largely unfathomable due to the fact that, well, they are gods, man!  They deal with shit every moment of existance that doesn't even register on your level...

To be sure: Brust alludes to the fact that Vlad can, at least eventually, threaten the Gods but that the repercussions are not 'the Gods wipe you from reality' as much as 'great, now no one is steering the ship of reality... bad shit starts to happen'.

So, sort of like Brett but more emphasis on #3 and much less on #1.

6. Mythic entities that set the rules and patterns for human society; personifications of natural forces.

I take 3 and 4, especially 4. When I read 4 "Incomprehensible entities that would make your whole face bleed just to gaze upon them", I just thought of Moorcock, the gods you meet in Elric and Corum, you know, Arioch, Mabelode, etc.

Quote from: RPGPundit;283099Gods in RPGs. Do you like it best when they're:

1. The final "boss" for you to kill in a campaign?
2. Dudes who are around often and do lots of things in the setting?
3. Unreachable beings that don't interact much in the setting?
4. Incomprehensible entities that would make your whole face bleed just to gaze upon them?
5. Adventurers who attained immortality and incredible power levels, and your PCs can eventually get to be that too?

Note that most of these are not exclusive, you can sign up to more than one option.

RPGPundit

I don't like too much direct intervention, I typically fuse 1, 2, and 5 together. Direct intervention by an Avatar is rare because IMC death on the Prime for a god is permanent (allows for PCs to ascend) with most of the intervention occurring through chosen ones (nowhere near as powerful as the FR bunch)

>1. The final "boss" for you to kill in a campaign?

Yup! Always a good option!

>2. Dudes who are around often and do lots of things in the setting?

Yup! I play Warhammer with very involved gods (on all sides) who manifest regularly to embolden their followers.  

>3. Unreachable beings that don't interact much in the setting?

Not so much.  If I don't want God Wars to be part of the game, I usually knock Gods out of the game.

>4. Incomprehensible entities that would make your whole face bleed just to gaze upon them?

Amen!  But you gotta combine 4 with 2 for maximum fun!

>5. Adventurers who attained immortality and incredible power levels, and your PCs can eventually get to be that too?

My campaigns never last that long :(

Pundit,
  Of those, I like #3.
  I think #5 is some kinda juvenile fantasy.
  I think #1 is boring (I will admit I did it when Deitites and demi-gods came out and it was very anti-climactic)
  #2 could be interesting if done right, but would be a nightmare in the hands of a "bad gm."
  #4 is alright, but I wouldn't want to do that every time.

  Too me, "religion done right" in an RPG will fill a couple of purposes:
1) Act as batteries for supernatural powers
2) Act as setting establishment (e.g.,grave robbing is bad, that's why God X is the lord of graverobbers and serves as a jester in hades).
3) Serve as a battery for religion-based drama (e..g., our gods are allies, but I find you despicable).

  I think that the game that comes closest to letting you be about "gods" is Exalted. And even then, you have to have a crazy amount of XPs and some good tricks up your sleeve to pull that off right.

Quote from: dindenver;283123I think that the game that comes closest to letting you be about "gods" is Exalted.

*cough*

Well... There's also Nobilis. And Scion. And possibly even Amber

My personal preferences run from #3 to #5, depending on the game. At least in one particular case, I'd have to go with "#0: Completely absent although various cults may still believe in them."

These days I'm settling for this definition:

"A god is any entity that:
A, declares itself to be a god, and
B, has the means, power, or werewithal to spectacularly destroy anyone who would publically deny its claim of divinity."

7. Differing levels.

In my game worlds, I go with:

Greater Gods: "personifications of natural forces"; always seen & felt, never interracted with
Lesser Gods: almost never interacted with (except by clergy), but power is felt by lesser beings that do their bidding in one way or another
Demigods: localized gods; sometimes servants of greater & lesser gods
Titans: a.k.a avatars; could be end of adventure bosses for very high-level adventures (which should be very rare IMHO; say, once 10 years of gaming in real time)
Heroes: mortals risen to as close to god-like status as they'll probably ever get; could be human, beast, undead; whatever

For Glorantha I would say option 2 as they are worshipped and provide the main way of getting magic.

Quote from: Premier;283147These days I'm settling for this definition:

"A god is any entity that:
A, declares itself to be a god, and
B, has the means, power, or werewithal to spectacularly destroy anyone who would publically deny its claim of divinity."

I define a god in my games as any being that becomes more powerful when people think of it, and has the ability to send your soul to a pocket universe.

I've had the players deal with weaker gods, beings with like 4hd in D&D that needed a +2 weapon to be hit. They were still gods... god of the hill, god of the grove...

Quote from: RPGPundit;283099Gods in RPGs. Do you like it best when they're:

1. The final "boss" for you to kill in a campaign?
2. Dudes who are around often and do lots of things in the setting?
3. Unreachable beings that don't interact much in the setting?
4. Incomprehensible entities that would make your whole face bleed just to gaze upon them?
5. Adventurers who attained immortality and incredible power levels, and your PCs can eventually get to be that too?

Note that most of these are not exclusive, you can sign up to more than one option.

RPGPundit

A lot of these depend heavily upon the setting, the power of the God, and the game system.

Some just don't make sense. How would you incorporate gods as an active force in a Traveller game? A Religion, yes. But a God, no.

I've gotten the most fun out of using the Small God rules from Fantasy Flight Games with d20. A Small God is less than a demigod, but greater than a hero and is very specialized (Old Man of the Mountain, The River Chou, etc) although it can grant spells to clerics. They are powerful enough to be a campaign challenge, but weak enopugh that a high level party can take one on (because lets face it, taking on a greater god is impossible considering what it can throw at a party).

Unless they are "wimpy" gods like the Small Gods above, I don't like them being very active in my games because they are just too powerful to use against the party or as allies of the party. I'll make a special note of the gods being allies of the party, like the patron of a cleric, because when they show up too often then the players become reliant upon them and their power.

Quote from: GrimGent;283134*cough*

Well... There's also Nobilis. And Scion. And possibly even Amber

Not to mention Immortal-level D&D ("basic").

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;283099Gods in RPGs. Do you like it best when they're:

1. The final "boss" for you to kill in a campaign?
2. Dudes who are around often and do lots of things in the setting?
3. Unreachable beings that don't interact much in the setting?
4. Incomprehensible entities that would make your whole face bleed just to gaze upon them?
5. Adventurers who attained immortality and incredible power levels, and your PCs can eventually get to be that too?

Note that most of these are not exclusive, you can sign up to more than one option.

RPGPundit

It depends a lot on the setting, but I usually dislike #1 and #5. The other options (including droog's #6) are OK for me.

What about some powerful force masquerading as a god? Or is this #1 too?

Quote from: droog;2831106. Mythic entities that set the rules and patterns for human society; personifications of natural forces.

Like Earthdawn's Passions?

7. Relevant only when you are cussing.

8. Artifacts for cowardly GMs who can't express what they really think of their players

I rarely run/play games where gods actually exist and influence the mortal world, so it's kind of a blur for me.

Quote1. The final "boss" for you to kill in a campaign?

Hell yes.

Quote2. Dudes who are around often and do lots of things in the setting?

I have a feeling the more powerful they are the less this should apply.

Quote3. Unreachable beings that don't interact much in the setting?

If religion ain't important, but there's a cleric in the party, this happens. Ain't my preference, but it's happened in my games anyway. I intend to fix it next time around.

Quote4. Incomprehensible entities that would make your whole face bleed just to gaze upon them?

I have a feeling the more powerful they are the more this should apply.

Quote5. Adventurers who attained immortality and incredible power levels, and your PCs can eventually get to be that too?

The existing gods, probably not (as a general rule), but I'd love it if my PCs went far enough to attain godhood.

In the Dawnlands setting (which is a 4e setting), I've got the following sorts of supernatural entities:

Gods who are impersonal, cosmic or mythic entities. Some examples would be the Storm Bulls and Wolves of the Earth worshipped by the plains nomads. These gods are not seen or communicated with directly, do not grant clerics their powers, and are not anthropomorphised. They have priests who interpret omens, adjudicate cases etc. They are invoked in particularly powerful rituals, and they must be appeased to avoid misfortune (storms and grass fires from the Storm Bulls, earthquakes and meteor strikes from the Wolves of the Earth). They get neither weaker nor stronger from personal worship.

Divine heroes, who are persons who have attained such incredible personal power that they are immortal (reincarnating after their deaths with personality intact). They return to earth from time to time when greatly needed. They are appeased and praised even when not active in order to keep their goodwill. They do not grant divine powers, nor rituals, to their followers, but because they are real individuals (albeit of mythic stature), they may take a personal hand in resolving some problem. An example would be Kakarna, the first divine hero, who is the father of all other dwarves.

Vampiric heroes / gods, who are powerful undead creatures that feed off the life force of their followers (and the victims their followers bring to them). Sometimes literally, by drinking their blood, but as they grow more powerful, they become able to drain the souls of living things. No vampire has ever attained godhood (meaning immortality and an existence on another plane), but only because those who have tried have been stopped.

Daimons, which are astral entities that grant divine powers to clerics, paladins and anyone else who can access the divine power source. They can only invest a single person with powers at a time, and can only affect the material plane through that person. They can be banished temporarily, but not slain except under certain special conditions. They are not worshipped, but their followers may appease them with certain ritual activities, as may people who have been saved or aided by the agent of a daimon.

Spirits, including demons, angels, fey creatures, the dead and the like. These comprise the vast majority of the supernatural ecology of the Dawnlands. They vary widely in their power, abilities and goals. Some are able to invest powers in material beings, creating warlocks. Many spirits are so powerful that they are "godlike", and they may be worshipped as such. They draw their power from consuming certain specific substances like human flesh, gold, onyx, rare woods, etc. These substances are consumed by their use in ceremonies unique to each spirit, which it normally teaches its followers. Broadly speaking, demons are those spirits only satisfied by blood and flesh, while more benevolent spirits draw on other materials. They may be invoked in rituals, and may teach rituals to their followers, but they do not empower the incredible feats that priests of the gods may perform.

If spirits are totems of things, then they are totems of concrete things. There is no "spirit of war" though there might be a spirit of a particular sword used in that battle. Most "gods" worshipped in the Dawnlands are spirits of one sort or another. Examples of the more powerful and unique spirits include the Screaming God, the Black Vermin Gods, the Great Mother, the Many-Legged Queen, the Oracles of the Silver Lake, and the Blue and Red Snakes.

Quote from: JongWK;283200Like Earthdawn's Passions?

How do they work?

Quote from: RPGPundit;283175Not to mention Immortal-level D&D ("basic").

Well, with the difference that those other games are by default geared towards godlike power levels from the start, instead of leaving it to the culmination of possibly years of play.

Quote from: GrimGent;283433Well, with the difference that those other games are by default geared towards godlike power levels from the start, instead of leaving it to the culmination of possibly years of play.

Yes, its just my point was that the whole "gods as something an adventurer can grow to become eventually" came directly from the Immortal Paths offered in the D&D Masters Set/Rules Cyclopedia.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;283561Yes, its just my point was that the whole "gods as something an adventurer can grow to become eventually" came directly from the Immortal Paths offered in the D&D Masters Set/Rules Cyclopedia.

RPGPundit

Absolutely.

Quote from: RPGPundit;283561Yes, its just my point was that the whole "gods as something an adventurer can grow to become eventually" came directly from the Immortal Paths offered in the D&D Masters Set/Rules Cyclopedia.

Actually, if you look there's rules in Deities & Demigods...

Quote from: RPGPundit;283561Yes, its just my point was that the whole "gods as something an adventurer can grow to become eventually" came directly from the Immortal Paths offered in the D&D Masters Set/Rules Cyclopedia.

True, and it's the natural end result of a continuous progression in PC power. The nature of the deities in the other god games that were mentioned doesn't fit quite as clearly into those five options, although you could just go with #2 and the player characters as the "dudes."