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Quote from: Valatar on August 21, 2021, 10:31:15 PM
...The difference here is that Goblin Slayer isn't a political product.  It has no agenda to support or oppose.  It's just a popular-ish story/comic/cartoon.  Buying it won't send cash to an ideologue who propped up some garbage on kickstarter just to have some kind of message, it'll send cash to some Japanese guy who made his edgy D&D game into a book.

Exactly.

Goblin Slayer anime has less on-screen rape, and less on screen nudity* than the Game of Thrones tv series.

Virtually all the "controversial content" is literally in just 30 seconds of the first episode.

And it is animated, as opposed to filming real Actors and Actresses doing those scenes.

Literally less edgy than a popular live-action fantasy series that millions of people watched.

So why all the visceral hate!?

It is seriously disproportional to the actual Goblin Slayer content.


IMHO, fundamentally it is This:

Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies on August 27, 2021, 11:38:34 AM
After watching the anime series, most of it seems to hinge on two things: evil goblins and a protagonist who keeps his full-face helmet on at all times.
... the very concept of monsters being evil must be too hard to deal with.  Whatever...
...

The Goblin Slayer setting goes against The Narrative.

That. Cannot. Be. Tolerated.

So cue the Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth...


*In the Goblin Slayer anime, in all the "naked" depictions (And it is literally just a handful for the whole series...), scraps of clothing, and hair, conveniently obscure the private bits.

Quote from: Jaeger on August 27, 2021, 03:39:15 PM

Quote from: Valatar on August 21, 2021, 10:31:15 PM
...The difference here is that Goblin Slayer isn't a political product.  It has no agenda to support or oppose.  It's just a popular-ish story/comic/cartoon.  Buying it won't send cash to an ideologue who propped up some garbage on kickstarter just to have some kind of message, it'll send cash to some Japanese guy who made his edgy D&D game into a book.

Exactly.

Goblin Slayer anime has less on-screen rape, and less on screen nudity than the Game of Thrones tv series.

And it is animated, as opposed to filming real Actors and Actresses doing those scenes...

Literally less edgy than the popular live-action fantasy series that millions of people watched.

So why all the visceral hate!?

It is seriously disproportional to the actual Goblin Slayer content.


IMHO, fundamentally it is This:

Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies on August 27, 2021, 11:38:34 AM
After watching the anime series, most of it seems to hinge on two things: evil goblins and a protagonist who keeps his full-face helmet on at all times.
... the very concept of monsters being evil must be too hard to deal with.  Whatever...
...

The Goblin Slayer setting goes against The Narrative.

That. Cannot. Be. Tolerated.

So cue the Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth...

It's factually incorrect to say that GOT didn't invite tons and tons of criticism. Critique of it spawned the phrase "rape as wallpaper." It's been criticized numerous times for its exploitative, gratuitous, racist, misogynistic, etc content.

Outside of the torture-porn GOT is much better written than GS because G.R.R. Martin was a seasoned writer when he wrote it. GS has huge tonal issues. GOT's tone is consistently grimdark as opposed to being grimdark torture-porn in the first episode and then subsequent episodes are typical lighthearted anime hijinks like GS.

The manga version of GS is hardcore pornographic. I'm not gonna link it here, but if you look for it you'll find that it is full of women being gang raped and framed in a hardcore pornographic fashion.

Furthermore, GS has been criticized by 4chan of all places for reasons other than the torture-porn. The worldbuilding is non-existent and the basic conceits of the setting are contradictory.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 27, 2021, 03:55:59 PM
...
It's factually incorrect to say that GOT didn't invite tons and tons of criticism.

Please show the line in my post where I have the words: "Game of Thrones was never criticized..."

Oh wait, I said no such thing. Nice try.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 27, 2021, 03:55:59 PM
Critique of it spawned the phrase "rape as wallpaper." It's been criticized numerous times for its exploitative, gratuitous, racist, misogynistic, etc content.

You forgot the: "It's not Porn, it's HBO!"  puns...

Both A Song of Ice and Fire Roleplaying, and A Game of Thrones (role-playing game), Were released when the content of the books was well known.

Zero locked threads on any RPG forums.

There are Long threads about the Game of Thrones TV Series in the pop-culture sections on the same Forums that locked the Goblin Slayer Threads, while the series was airing, and all the criticisms known...

Zero locked discussions.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 27, 2021, 03:55:59 PM
Outside of the torture-porn GOT is much better written than GS because G.R.R. Martin was a seasoned writer when he wrote it. GS has huge tonal issues. GOT's tone is consistently grimdark as opposed to being grimdark torture-porn in the first episode and then subsequent episodes are typical lighthearted anime hijinks like GS.

Blah, blah, blah...

Goblin Slayer is not Shakespeare.

In other news: Water is Wet.

And thank you for helping me further highlight the hypocrisy and double standards of the Forums that freely discussed the GoT tv Series and RPG's.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 27, 2021, 03:55:59 PM
The manga version of GS is hardcore pornographic. I'm not gonna link it here, but if you look for it you'll find that it is full of women being gang raped and framed in a hardcore pornographic fashion.

Nobody is referencing the Magna version.

From the blurb about the games release, to the locked threads on the other Forums: They are all referencing the Anime.

It is all about "Controversial anime to get a tabletop RPG"
https://www.geeknative.com/134247/goblin-slayer-controversial-anime-to-get-a-tabletop-rpg/

Missed that headline did you?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 27, 2021, 03:55:59 PM
Furthermore, GS has been criticized by 4chan of all places for reasons other than the torture-porn. The worldbuilding is non-existent and the basic conceits of the setting are contradictory.

So just like D&D then.


I give you a 2 out of 5 for trying to obfuscate the hypocrisy of your fellow travelers.

For those who aren't familiar with GS, the manga is most explicitly NOT hardcore pornography. You see nipples and that's it. It's bloody and dark in places, but there are no depictions of genitalia or actual penetration. And the scenes where you do see any nudity are almost entirely portrayed in a way that 99% of people wouldn't find titillating. There's always that 1%, of course.

Moreover, Japan's laws wouldn't allow for any genitalia to be shown, anyway. Plenty of series try to get around this by either showing outlines or slightly obscuring the character's naughty bits, but GS is not one of those series. If GS was intended as pornography, you can bet there'd be a lot more focus on the nudity (which honestly doesn't pop up all that often).

Quote from: Brand55 on August 27, 2021, 07:21:48 PM
For those who aren't familiar with GS, the manga is most explicitly NOT hardcore pornography. You see nipples and that's it. It's bloody and dark in places, but there are no depictions of genitalia or actual penetration. And the scenes where you do see any nudity are almost entirely portrayed in a way that 99% of people wouldn't find titillating. There's always that 1%, of course.

Moreover, Japan's laws wouldn't allow for any genitalia to be shown, anyway. Plenty of series try to get around this by either showing outlines or slightly obscuring the character's naughty bits, but GS is not one of those series. If GS was intended as pornography, you can bet there'd be a lot more focus on the nudity (which honestly doesn't pop up all that often*).

So BoxCrayon straight-up Lied to try and give his weak-sauce talking points some weight...

Quell surprise.

Perhaps he is not sure what hard core pornography looks like?  I am sure there has to be a dude somewhere over 30 who is not sure what it looks like, even in the age of the internet.

Quote from: oggsmash on August 27, 2021, 07:52:22 PM
Perhaps he is not sure what hard core pornography looks like?

Or a bit of a god botherer. Down with that sort of thing!

Don't get me wrong, Goblin Slayer definitely isn't something I'd recommend to one of my young nieces as a way to get her introduced to D&D or manga. But it pales in comparison to stuff that actually IS pornography. Another series I read, Hagure Idol Jigokuhen, is an interesting martial arts manga cloaked in hardcore porn. The first "arc" consists of the main character fighting 100 men, one at a time, to keep them from gangbanging her. And then it only gets crazier and more explicit from there. Compared to a series like that, Goblin Slayer might as well be My Little Pony . . . with a little goblin rape, of course.

To bring it back to the rpg, most of the more explicit stuff would likely be a "fade to black" scene or just not narrated in explicit detail by the GM. I expect the vast majority of players would play it like that, and it would be no more graphic than most other games.

Quote from: Brand55 on August 27, 2021, 08:17:33 PM

To bring it back to the rpg, most of the more explicit stuff would likely be a "fade to black" scene or just not narrated in explicit detail by the GM. I expect the vast majority of players would play it like that, and it would be no more graphic than most other games.

Exactly... Players would be dealing with of off screen consequences of vile monsters' actions. I don't think any normal players would want a blow by blow account, or any graphic detail.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 27, 2021, 08:26:31 PM
...
Exactly... Players would be dealing with of off screen consequences of vile monsters' actions. I don't think any normal players would want a blow by blow account, or any graphic detail.

Add my Exactly to this as well.

Normal players don't go into graphic detail. Fade to Black is a long standing, and time honored tradition in RPG's...

It really is a Total non-issue. It's not like the idea of orcs/goblins raping captives was invented by the writer of Goblin Slayer after all...


IMHO, it is all the pearl-clutching crowd projecting onto normal players the actions and fears borne from within their own 'progressive' community.

With all the nerfing of charm and sleep spells, the increased rarity of PC death, and the rise of RPG "safety tools": I'm really warming up to the notion that Koebel was just a typical example of a 'male-feminist' that got caught out in public...

Quote from: Jaeger on August 27, 2021, 09:25:56 PM
Add my Exactly to this as well.

Normal players don't go into graphic detail. Fade to Black is a long standing, and time honored tradition in RPG's...

It really is a Total non-issue. It's not like the idea of orcs/goblins raping captives was invented by the writer of Goblin Slayer after all...


IMHO, it is all the pearl-clutching crowd projecting onto normal players the actions and fears borne from within their own 'progressive' community.

With all the nerfing of charm and sleep spells, the increased rarity of PC death, and the rise of RPG "safety tools": I'm really warming up to the notion that Koebel was just a typical example of a 'male-feminist' that got caught out in public...

I remember my first introduction to half-orcs presented them mostly as products of human women being raped by orcs. None of the people I played with back then blinked an eye at that, and we certainly didn't go out and roleplay it. We had half-orc PCs and NPCs and it was just a part of the world.

Another thing to keep in mind with GS is that goblins are actually just one small fraction of the enemies in the world. The series focuses on them because it's about Goblin Slayer, but most adventurers don't even give them a second thought. It would be incredibly easy to never take on a goblin-slaying quest. You could have a group of adventurers that never even need to fade to black in the first place.

Ummmm people, I've just had a thought.....

You do realise that we're debating something that may not occur - the Goblin Slayer (English) RPG may not actually contain any reference to 'rape'!

The original Japanese webnovel (or at least the English (fan) translation that I can locate online) did contain rape. Obviously the manga and anime also have this (haven't actually seen the manga).

But I've just located what I believe to be the official English release of the first novel, and the chapter in the first dungeon doesn't contain any direct rape scene. A search of the novel reveals three references to 'rape', purely as hypotheticals.

On a number of occasions readers have complained about English translations of Japanese light novels removing controvertials scenes/plots, so why wouldn't this occur with GS RPG (assuming that the Japanese RPG did contain such a reference)?

Quote from: Tantavalist on August 27, 2021, 12:30:14 PM
A lot of the most controversial stuff happened in the first episode/story/chapter/whatever it was before anime.

I think this was probably a deliberate move. So many people have "Subverted the Trope" of the Evil Races by making them sympathetic that by this point it's becoming more like the standard option. Inevitably the first thing that would come up if the idea of something like Goblin Slayer came out was someone asking "But who is really the villain here?" and questioning if evil was just down to point of view.

I've heard of a lot of reactions to the first episode of Goblin Slayer. The only thing I've not heard of is anyone who saw it not feeling that the Goblins needed to be exterminated. Mission accomplished as far as I'm concerned.

There is another anime out before Goblin Slayer with a similar theme who's name eludes me.
Base idea was people from earth wake up in a fantasy world and are thrust into a very very deadly environment with a system that seems built to keep these arrivals trapped as adventurers. The goblins for example are very much a threat and very hostile. But in the background they are shown playing games and having some sort of society. Far as I could tell it was never explained exactly why everyones fighting. But the baseline is the monster races are hostile to varying degrees and co-existence seems impossible.

You can have hostile beings with culture and still be utterly hostile for whatever reasons.

The problem with SJWs is that they have lied to the point alot of folk think the lie us the truth. That a monsters alignment listed in especially D&D is some sort of set in stone edict from GOD and there were never ever ever anything else allowed ever.

Because they never actually read the damn books.

Quote from: ponta1010 on August 28, 2021, 02:21:05 AM
Ummmm people, I've just had a thought.....

You do realise that we're debating something that may not occur - the Goblin Slayer (English) RPG may not actually contain any reference to 'rape'!

But I've just located what I believe to be the official English release of the first novel, and the chapter in the first dungeon doesn't contain any direct rape scene. A search of the novel reveals three references to 'rape', purely as hypotheticals.

On a number of occasions readers have complained about English translations of Japanese light novels removing controvertials scenes/plots, so why wouldn't this occur with GS RPG (assuming that the Japanese RPG did contain such a reference)?

I was wondering about this too. Didnt know that the censoring was kicking in again with this stuff.