So two comments on this

thread :http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6654

QuoteSeanchai wrote:
Huh. I've seen many, many of these types of messages before, but never one with the player and GM in question as participants. I think I'll stay way the hell out of it.

and

Quotejdrakeh wrote:
I owe you an apology, Pundit. Never in my wildest dreams did I think that Jong was posting about your game (simply because I wouldn't call out my GM on a public forum under the guise of a 'help me hypothetical' post). With what you've contributed here, my position has changed. Still, I shall recant my earlier suggestion and bite my tongue as I have no desire to get involved in an argument of a personal nature between two forum participants.

So far there's only been one other thread where something like this has happened. So three questions:

1: Should players start threads like these on forums ?

2: Should folks make comments - suggestions, advise etc ?

3: Are threads like these ever productive ?

Regards,
David R

I speak from the experience of being the starter of that Other Thread, which in the end imploded the game group.

In all cases, it is better to talk to your group first. In the end, if that doesn't work, find a new group. So in my view the question is only whether there should be some steps between the talking to the group and giving up on it if that talking fails. It's inevitable that people will try something: "Maybe when I was talking, it wasn't the right approach, maybe I could express it differently?"

I think that people tend to be more confrontational in public. They have to Make A Stand. So it's probably never going to be productive to have a discussion which uninvolved people are watching. Even when the uninvolved say nothing, still those involved are conscious that they're watching, so things can get nasty.

And of course in a forum the uninvolved will comment. Then those commenting will be responded to. "No you stupid cunt you don't understand", and so on. Tempers rise. Each of those involved tries to justify themselves, and this causes them to be more entrenched in their positions, and say divisive things.

I do think that you can usefully discuss small aspects of the campaign in public, but you have to be careful of your tone, and consider the personalities of those involved. Some people are proud and/or confrontational, and any perceived public criticism is going to be taken in the worst possible way and lead to an explosion. Other people are shy and retiring, and any perceived public criticism will lead to their being deeply hurt.

So the discussion must be just of small aspects of the campaign, and presented in a thoughtful and non-aggressive tone. Or it can be presented as a general question. "It's not really relevant for my campaign, but made me think, how do others handle this?" I assume that's what Jong was trying, but unfortunately it seems he failed to consider the personalities of those involved.

It's a difficult thing. I've seen game groups implode or nearly implode over a few group emails, or on their game group only forum. It's like fonkaygarry said about internet dramas in general - that things which could be settled by a ten minute sitdown talk or a ten second throwdown, on the internet turn into three hundred post threads of personality cult meltdowns. Forums aren't unique in this, it happens over emails, too. Most of us have had nasty email fights with people, yeah?

Before folks get too accustomed to looking this thread up in the RPG forum ... does it belong, maybe, in Off-Topic, or Help?

Nope. I don't do "email" or "private messages". It's just not worth the effort. That said I can be a real dick when I feel up to it on various forums, but even that's pretty half hearted as I'm not able to hold a grudge for long. (Usually.)

My players are welcome to post wherever they want, and whenever they want-I pride myself on being a skilled communicator, and part of that means knowing they won't always be talking to me, or even nicely about me. No one is perfect all of the time.

Quote from: David RSo far there's only been one other thread where something like this has happened. So three questions:

1: Should players start threads like these on forums ?

2: Should folks make comments - suggestions, advise etc ?

3: Are threads like these ever productive ?

Regards,
David R

1: No.

2: Not if they are wise.

3: Not that I've seen.

Threads like this remind me why communicating feedback is important during a campaign. After each game session, I ask the players for feedback. Some of them find it annoying, but this way I can tailor the adventures to the players and make the game more fun.

The problem with these threads as I see them is that they are passive-aggressive personal attacks. If you have a problem, address it with the person and not with an audience.

I think that, unless David R wants to move the thread, for the moment I'll tenatively keep it in open, since it does relate to roleplaying, ie. the question is "should private conflicts between people in a roleplaying group from their campaign end up being aired in public"?

As to my answer to this: I don't think I was personally pissed off with Jong, but it would have been more productive, if he felt he couldn't talk to me about it in person, if he'd tried writing to me in private before putting it in the forum.  
The problem wasn't so much what Jong said, as it was the comments from the "Peanut gallery" getting in the way, as they almost always included assumptions about either the campaign (the game must suck) or what had gone on (ie. the GM or the player must never have mentioned x, or done y, or said z); assumptions which just weren't true.   So I was stuck with trying to defend the campaign as a whole and my own GMing as a whole, rather than actually work on Jong's problem.

RPGPundit

Pundit, as much as you are waving your GM-skills around as a rhetorical weapon, the more public interest is generated about the goings in your campaigns.
That´s only fair and logical.

Thanks, Jong!

1: Should players start threads like these on forums ?

Absolutely, it's like watching a train wreck but with no-one suffering lasting physical injury, it's tremendously entertaining in a really lowbrow and unpleasant way that appeals to my worst nature.

2: Should folks make comments - suggestions, advise etc ?

Sure, otherwise they can peter out or people may reach agreement, besides, offering unwanted advice is a source of great pleasure to many people plus it gives great opportunities to feel superior or to be grateful for one's own lesser troubles.

3: Are threads like these ever productive ?

Absolutely, pure schadenfreude, tremendous entertainment value.

I suppose it's possible you were asking if they were ever productive from some perspective other than providing poking-sticks-at-bedlam-inmates style entertainment.  At that point I'd have to say no.

But, being myself basically a terrible human being (like most human beings), they do have that whole reality tv trash entertainment factor and are I think best viewed in that light.

Balbinus, I like the way you think!

Quote from: BalbinusI suppose it's possible you were asking if they were ever productive from some perspective other than providing poking-sticks-at-bedlam-inmates style entertainment.  At that point I'd have to say no.

Actually, yes because as you say :

Quote...or to be grateful for one's own lesser troubles.

Believe me, realizing this goes a long way in maintaining a healthy attitude towards the group you're gaming with.

Regards,
David R