TheRPGSite

So. Apparently I'm a murderhobo (my words) that runs from plot hooks (her words).

For the record, this was her first time running an RPG. Neither of us had a strong preference for what sort of setting we wanted, so we decided to leave the world and the character sheet empty and fill in the details as necessary.

She suggests that I might need to put points into video game skill, then places my character in the Dune setting and flat-out tells me that my character's goal is to, and I quote, "ride the worm".

She meant the Shai-hulud, but I have a dirty mind and was not okay with riding a gigantic phallic creature. Also, she made it fairly obvious that she was trying to pull a twist ("you were in a VR world all along!"), but she did this by trying to withhold knowledge that my character would have known. I pushed back and finally got her to admit that this was a VR game, but that my character still felt a strong urge to "ride the worm".

Even after I made a boatload of double-entendres about this she still didn't understand why I might not want to do this. My character shuts down the VR game. Okay, I'm in an arcade, with a cute girl who wanted to see me ride the worm. Apparently my character wanted to impress her (GM's words, not mine). I make several more double-entendres about the female NPC being a yaoi fangirl, then left.

Then I contact an NPC friend of mine, who I made up on the spot. He meets me at a local pizza place and tells me "we need to talk".

I'm seeing red flags here. See, my character was supposed to be friends with the NPC for a long time, but from my out-of-character perspective this was my first interaction with the guy and I didn't trust him at all. For all I knew, the GM was planning some sort of plot twist that would screw me over. In fact, I was tempted to just throw down a stun-grenade and get the hell out of there. I didn't, but it was a close one.

Anyhow, he tells me that he's part of a secret organization. I make fun of him and tell him he's spent too much time playing VR sims (again, mostly because I, the player, didn't trust him, the NPC). He puts his hand on my shoulder and we get into a completely freeform fight where he doesn't take any visible damage from my attack and avoids my stun grenade before spraying me with something that makes me woozy and disoriented. I didn't even get a saving throw against it, but the GM later admitted she should have rolled for it and messed that up. I decide to head home and she spends a lot of time focusing on how I get home, how other people are reacting to me as I appear to be drunk, etc. She's asking me to make a lot of decisions about non-urgent things, which I don't handle well in the context of RPGs. I'm not having fun, so we end the session there.

A few hours later, after going over the Dungeon-World inspired combat rules again, she starts by making an hobo NPC with several Moves, including "swindle money". We run a mock encounter that starts with him approaching me for spare change. I immediately get as far away from him as possible.

She decides to have him show up again in the direction that I run, and I think, "if nothing else, this is turning into a decent horror RPG." Several iterations of the same hobo appear. I jump up and over the one blocking me, kneeing him in the face in the process, and make it to the main road. It should be busy, but the street appears deserted. I close my eyes and run around, trying to bump into somebody (I suspect they're still there, just hidden from my sight). This is exactly what happens, and when I open my eyes again everything is normal.

Then she spends 5-10 minutes asking me what I do, where I go, etc. etc. in tedious detail. I was coming back from picking up some last-minute supplies from a local drug store. I'm getting ready to move away from the town. I walk home. My luggage is packed. I'm going to take the bus to the plane station. Now I'm on the bus, and the hobo appears in the seat next to me, saying, "you won't get away so easily." I, the player, want to punch the hobo NPC in the face, but I don't interrupt the GM and suddenly I'm back in town.

I had been asked to make a lot of non-urgent decisions, which, again, I don't handle well in RPGs (it drains me), so we stopped there.

Three potential plot hooks. I ran away from the first one, attacked and then ran away from the second one, and ran away from the third one. I tried to correct her GMing after the game but she really didn't enjoy that, so now I'm just wondering what I can do to keep this from happening again.

As a rant, 4/10. Its entertaining but your grammar is too good.

It sounds like you are a paranoid player who sees the GM as an antagonist, probably from your past experiences with bad GMs or from your own antagonistic style as a GM.

Single PC/GM games are really hard to pull off, especially when run freeform like this. It will only work if you both contribute and run with each other's suggestions. As a player, you have a greater responsibility to embrace the developing story and add to it.

It sounds to me like you spent more energy on avoiding the GM's suggestions than adding anything. This will significantly reduce the overall contributions to the game as the GM's own efforts are draw in to counter yours. I expect it was your behaviour that caused the GM to focus on smaller details looking for ways to engage your PC and coming up with more outlandish hooks in a hope to confound you.

My suggestion is that you need to stop seeing the GM as an antagonist trying to screw you over. Complication is a great source of drama that can move the story along. Be proactive. Run with the GM's suggestions and expand on them, before handing them back to her to do likewise. Expand on your descriptions of your PCs actions and decisions. With only 1 PC you need to help fill out the world around the PC. Stop the OOC banter.

Quote from: abcd_z;923147So. Apparently I'm a murderhobo (my words) that runs from plot hooks (her words).

For the record, this was her first time running an RPG. Neither of us had a strong preference for what sort of setting we wanted, so we decided to leave the world and the character sheet empty and fill in the details as necessary.

She suggests that I might need to put points into video game skill, then places my character in the Dune setting and flat-out tells me that my character's goal is to, and I quote, "ride the worm".

She meant the Shai-hulud, but I have a dirty mind and was not okay with riding a gigantic phallic creature. Also, she made it fairly obvious that she was trying to pull a twist ("you were in a VR world all along!"), but she did this by trying to withhold knowledge that my character would have known. I pushed back and finally got her to admit that this was a VR game, but that my character still felt a strong urge to "ride the worm".

Even after I made a boatload of double-entendres about this she still didn't understand why I might not want to do this. My character shuts down the VR game. Okay, I'm in an arcade, with a cute girl who wanted to see me ride the worm. Apparently my character wanted to impress her (GM's words, not mine). I make several more double-entendres about the female NPC being a yaoi fangirl, then left.

Then I contact an NPC friend of mine, who I made up on the spot. He meets me at a local pizza place and tells me "we need to talk".

I'm seeing red flags here. See, my character was supposed to be friends with the NPC for a long time, but from my out-of-character perspective this was my first interaction with the guy and I didn't trust him at all. For all I knew, the GM was planning some sort of plot twist that would screw me over. In fact, I was tempted to just throw down a stun-grenade and get the hell out of there. I didn't, but it was a close one.

Anyhow, he tells me that he's part of a secret organization. I make fun of him and tell him he's spent too much time playing VR sims (again, mostly because I, the player, didn't trust him, the NPC). He puts his hand on my shoulder and we get into a completely freeform fight where he doesn't take any visible damage from my attack and avoids my stun grenade before spraying me with something that makes me woozy and disoriented. I didn't even get a saving throw against it, but the GM later admitted she should have rolled for it and messed that up. I decide to head home and she spends a lot of time focusing on how I get home, how other people are reacting to me as I appear to be drunk, etc. She's asking me to make a lot of decisions about non-urgent things, which I don't handle well in the context of RPGs. I'm not having fun, so we end the session there.

A few hours later, after going over the Dungeon-World inspired combat rules again, she starts by making an hobo NPC with several Moves, including "swindle money". We run a mock encounter that starts with him approaching me for spare change. I immediately get as far away from him as possible.

She decides to have him show up again in the direction that I run, and I think, "if nothing else, this is turning into a decent horror RPG." Several iterations of the same hobo appear. I jump up and over the one blocking me, kneeing him in the face in the process, and make it to the main road. It should be busy, but the street appears deserted. I close my eyes and run around, trying to bump into somebody (I suspect they're still there, just hidden from my sight). This is exactly what happens, and when I open my eyes again everything is normal.

Then she spends 5-10 minutes asking me what I do, where I go, etc. etc. in tedious detail. I was coming back from picking up some last-minute supplies from a local drug store. I'm getting ready to move away from the town. I walk home. My luggage is packed. I'm going to take the bus to the plane station. Now I'm on the bus, and the hobo appears in the seat next to me, saying, "you won't get away so easily." I, the player, want to punch the hobo NPC in the face, but I don't interrupt the GM and suddenly I'm back in town.

I had been asked to make a lot of non-urgent decisions, which, again, I don't handle well in RPGs (it drains me), so we stopped there.

Three potential plot hooks. I ran away from the first one, attacked and then ran away from the second one, and ran away from the third one. I tried to correct her GMing after the game but she really didn't enjoy that, so now I'm just wondering what I can do to keep this from happening again.

This looks like a troll job to me quite frankly... but assuming it is real.. Obviously if it is your girlfriend's first time running a game, and you'd like her to stay your girlfriend, probably best to go for the obvious plot hooks and not get into a debate about dungeon world or play styles.

Either a troll or an assmunch, not sure which.

If you're not a troll, you're an utter rampaging fuckmorton and you owe your girlfriend about ten apologies.

But I vote 6+2 HD, green skin, AC4, regenerates 3 points per turn.

This reminds me of our current Traveller game.

GM had us wake up with no memories in a gutted spaceship. Turns out we're 150 years out of date and we're clones. Turns out the ship's AI got a message from outside the galaxy and is taking us... somewhere, and has overridden all controls. Oh, and there's some weird alien bomb in the hold.

But we don't want to go on a mystery tour.

So we take the ship's power off-line (involves a walk outside to short out some circuits), disengage the AI, and then manually turn the ship toward the closest known base (we're already waaaaay out on the rim of human space).
We, barely, make it before running out of fuel/life support. We contact the powers that be and tell the the whole story... ask them to take the bomb and insane AI off the ship.
They seem very happy to do just that.
The feds were not involved with our initial predicament, but nonetheless we end up drugged (more lost time) and then put back on the ship... with bomb still in the hold and the AI is hooked up again, this time with a high tech self defense rig that nearly kills us when we try to tamper.

So... I put the other two PCs and myself in stasis pods and flush us out the airlock into space. Goodbye fucked up GM railroad! (I was kind of hoping he'd just kill us but no such luck).
We got rescued and are now on some alien ship, minimal time loss... but if he tricks us back onto that fucking bomb ship I'm gonna shit a brick and throw it at him.

(It's obligatory that I mention this GM is usually quite decent... but that this scenario is just playing into my history of Traveller campaigns that kinda suck for no good reason)

Quote from: abcd_z;923147three potential plot hooks. I ran away from the first one, attacked and then ran away from the second one, and ran away from the third one. I tried to correct her gming after the game but she really didn't enjoy that, so now i'm just wondering what i can do to keep this from happening again.

dump her!

Girl friend wants to learn to be a better GM.

Boyfriend (I'm assuming a he), wants her game to run like an '80s 2D scroller game.

Next time, get more players at the table. Preferably role-players.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;923159dump her!

It's the only rational thing to do!!

... what, then, is your point?  To inform the Internet that you suck as a player?  Mission accomplished, though going to the trouble to register for a site and write a long post to that effect seems like a pretty weird use of your time.

To inform the Internet that your girlfriend sucks at GMing?  She doesn't seem to have done badly for a first-timer.  But sorry, dude, if your intent was to wave a bunch of responses at her and crow, "Haha, the Internet says you suck at this!" we're not interested.

Thank you for playing, and as parting gifts, you get the RPGSite home game and a case of Rice-a-Roni, the San Francisco treat.

At a guess the OP is a little, or ALOT, phobic of anything remotely seeming like a railroad and yeah the discription does sound more like a story than an RP at first. But other tries seem to be more open ended and its hard to say what was going on here other than the OP resisting and the GM possibly getting frustrated.

Opposing playstyles?

You don't even trust your own girlfriend? Yikes.

Quote from: abcd_z;923147I tried to correct her GMing after the game but she really didn't enjoy that,

Huh, I always thought people LOVED it when someone points out "You're playing it wrong."
 

Quoteso now I'm just wondering what I can do to keep this from happening again.

Quit your bitching, thank her for running a game, then Thank God you are in a relationship with someone who (inexplicably) wants to RPG with you.

Quote from: abcd_z;923147So. Apparently I'm a murderhobo (my words) that runs from plot hooks (her words).

For the record, this was her first time running an RPG. Neither of us had a strong preference for what sort of setting we wanted, so we decided to leave the world and the character sheet empty and fill in the details as necessary.

She suggests that I might need to put points into video game skill, then places my character in the Dune setting and flat-out tells me that my character's goal is to, and I quote, "ride the worm".

She meant the Shai-hulud, but I have a dirty mind and was not okay with riding a gigantic phallic creature. Also, she made it fairly obvious that she was trying to pull a twist ("you were in a VR world all along!"), but she did this by trying to withhold knowledge that my character would have known. I pushed back and finally got her to admit that this was a VR game, but that my character still felt a strong urge to "ride the worm".

Even after I made a boatload of double-entendres about this she still didn't understand why I might not want to do this. My character shuts down the VR game. Okay, I'm in an arcade, with a cute girl who wanted to see me ride the worm. Apparently my character wanted to impress her (GM's words, not mine). I make several more double-entendres about the female NPC being a yaoi fangirl, then left.

Then I contact an NPC friend of mine, who I made up on the spot. He meets me at a local pizza place and tells me "we need to talk".

I'm seeing red flags here. See, my character was supposed to be friends with the NPC for a long time, but from my out-of-character perspective this was my first interaction with the guy and I didn't trust him at all. For all I knew, the GM was planning some sort of plot twist that would screw me over. In fact, I was tempted to just throw down a stun-grenade and get the hell out of there. I didn't, but it was a close one.

Anyhow, he tells me that he's part of a secret organization. I make fun of him and tell him he's spent too much time playing VR sims (again, mostly because I, the player, didn't trust him, the NPC). He puts his hand on my shoulder and we get into a completely freeform fight where he doesn't take any visible damage from my attack and avoids my stun grenade before spraying me with something that makes me woozy and disoriented. I didn't even get a saving throw against it, but the GM later admitted she should have rolled for it and messed that up. I decide to head home and she spends a lot of time focusing on how I get home, how other people are reacting to me as I appear to be drunk, etc. She's asking me to make a lot of decisions about non-urgent things, which I don't handle well in the context of RPGs. I'm not having fun, so we end the session there.

A few hours later, after going over the Dungeon-World inspired combat rules again, she starts by making an hobo NPC with several Moves, including "swindle money". We run a mock encounter that starts with him approaching me for spare change. I immediately get as far away from him as possible.

She decides to have him show up again in the direction that I run, and I think, "if nothing else, this is turning into a decent horror RPG." Several iterations of the same hobo appear. I jump up and over the one blocking me, kneeing him in the face in the process, and make it to the main road. It should be busy, but the street appears deserted. I close my eyes and run around, trying to bump into somebody (I suspect they're still there, just hidden from my sight). This is exactly what happens, and when I open my eyes again everything is normal.

Then she spends 5-10 minutes asking me what I do, where I go, etc. etc. in tedious detail. I was coming back from picking up some last-minute supplies from a local drug store. I'm getting ready to move away from the town. I walk home. My luggage is packed. I'm going to take the bus to the plane station. Now I'm on the bus, and the hobo appears in the seat next to me, saying, "you won't get away so easily." I, the player, want to punch the hobo NPC in the face, but I don't interrupt the GM and suddenly I'm back in town.

I had been asked to make a lot of non-urgent decisions, which, again, I don't handle well in RPGs (it drains me), so we stopped there.

Three potential plot hooks. I ran away from the first one, attacked and then ran away from the second one, and ran away from the third one. I tried to correct her GMing after the game but she really didn't enjoy that, so now I'm just wondering what I can do to keep this from happening again.

I wasn't there, but it seems likely that:
1. Your GF probably had the idea to run a slice-of-life campaign and get it more relaxed with VR playing an important role for the action. (Or maybe she was just planning you could become a NuNeo and slip the Matrix, if that girl knew that anyone who manages that achievement gets to benefit from a bug in the program which interferes with the programming of the Matrix. All for the small price of having ridden the worm, you know;p. We'll never know that part, because...well, because you fucking ran away from the knowledge, you coward:D! Why didn't you at least try to pick up the chick?
I mean, you presumably wanted to impress her. Why not try that out of VR? Just suggesting that she shows you how to ride the worm would have 1. been hilarious and 2. gone a long way towards playing with your GF, not against her:)).
2. Then she gave up on that and wanted to get you to join a secret organisation. You fought your way out of it.
3. Then she made up something new and you ran away.

Conclusion? You suck at improv. Not "improvising", improv. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvisational_theatre) In particular, you commit the cardinal sins of improv - "not accepting hooks" and "not following what was established" (as well as the cardinal sin of sandbox games, which is "running from adventures").

Regarding "not following what was established (by yourself, at that): seriously, you said you're contacting an NPC friend. Your friend tells you you need to talk, you barely contain yourself not to stun-grenade him...seriously:D? Then your friend tells you he's involved with people that might be potentially dangerous for him...and you just go out.
Again, seriously? That's what you think adventurers do;)?

I get it! The first instinct of adventurers is often to not leave themselves open for further complications. But that's not a good idea for the game, and the kind of people that have adventures have those because they weren't doing that! That, or circumstances conspired to get them involved...but these days, we call the latter "railroading". Did you really want her to railroad you?
I mean, she even had a hobo chasing you to drag you into an adventure - but you outran him. At this rate, are you

Conclusion: Learn to play better in a freestyle environment, and she'd be able to GM better games for you.
Or teach her how to GM the kind of games you like. But as it is now, you're not going to get much mileage out of your games!

Also, as someone whose wife runs games, never tell your GF that she's playing it wrong. That might impact adversely your chances of getting her to ride the worm herself:p.
Not saying you have to accept anything, of course. I'm saying you need to learn how to present your critique as "suggestions how it might be better". And if she asks you "don't you like it", you'd better say you want her to try the other option, because it sure seems more fun;)! She's probably better than you at picking hints, so this will be good enough, while giving her a face-saving exit!


P.S.: Also, man...you ran away from an opportunity to ride a worm on Dune? Seriously? Because it had some homoerotic connotation in your mind that pretty much nobody from the fans has seen?
Shame on you! I hereby strip you of your Dune credentials:D!

You had a few strikes against you..

Her first time DMing.  So she tried a few things out, you treated her like a long time rail road fiend.

It was free form with out structer, setting or system.  Sounds like you were mete as fuck.  You didn't want to do the adventure she had prepared.  Her only mistake was to not say "look dumb ass, the adventure is to ride the worm, either get on that giant phalic symbol or go wash the dishes"

You sound like a terrible player.

Man I always read posts that say that after reddit posts but this is the first time I'm making one.

1) You kept mocking the GM's attempt at create a story. Right off the bat it's already a disaster. She obviously is new and needs work, but you should've just rolled with it, not expected a first time chef to cook you a master dish.

2) You weren't roleplaying your own character very well. I mean, you introduce your NPC friend yourself, but then you don't trust him? Regardless of your own personal feelings you should have played it out as if you trusted him. And why a fight all of a sudden??

3) In one on one games, and well, in games in general, you want to go with the flow rather than actively subvert what the GM is trying to do. If you see that the adventure is about going on a treasure hunt then you don't immediately say your character is going to stay home and tend to their garden, unless you just want to waste your time. It sounds like your GM wanted to create a Matrix-like scenario where you're dealing with VR and secret societies, etc. It could have been fun to get sucked into it.

Long story short, you should look at games like this as a cooperative endeavor where you're both trying to push things in an interesting and exciting direction, like someone making a TV show.

Dude, naw.  You need to be more subtle.

I'm not going to be so hard on the poster as the rest of you, although I'm partly in agreement.  It sounds like you started off from a place of suspicion and antagonism, actively thwarting anything that you didn't immediately enjoy.  It does sound like she needs a bit of work as a GM, but that's very common for a first-timer.  Honestly, GMing for a single player has its own unique challenges.  It sounds like you were trying to "teach" her by denying any leads that felt railroady to you, so she'd learn not to do that.  I'd say you can hold off on that lesson for another time.  

If she's trying to learn to GM, why don't you help her instead of "punishing" her for running things in a way you don't enjoy (i.e. all those non-urgent decisions that you hate so much)?  It has a bit of passive aggressiveness to it.  You should be more forgiving the first time through, and offer gentle comments afterwards.  What are you doing to help her learn?  Was that successful?  Maybe you need to try a different approach.  Do you GM yourself?  It sounds like you might not appreciate how tricky and stressful that can be.  As a GM, I'll tell you right now, the only thing worse than an openly adversarial player is one who is passive-aggressive about it.  I think a lot of players forget that they are just as responsible for the experience of everyone at the table as the GM.  What are you doing to insure that she enjoys the game?  If you're not asking yourself that question, you're not a good role-player, whether you are player or GM.

I also think it was a little bit of a mistake for you guys to jump right into things without character sheets or dice (or rules?  what system were you supposedly playing?).  This lack of structure can only lend itself more to a railroad experience.  This exercise really doesn't feel like an ideal learning experience, despite the appeal of being able to jump into things with someone she is presumably comfortable with (although that may have changed a little).  People learn by being able to stretch their wings and try stuff out, and you have to actively facilitate that if you want to be helpful.

Also, I can't even say that she was doing much wrong, because you didn't bite her hooks enough to find out.  In that situation, a new GM can become nervous and desperate.  As a GM, it's hard to know what to do when you spend ten hours preparing an adventure and your players half-heartedly shrug and say "nah."  You're all sitting down at the table to have fun together, right?  If someone isn't having fun, as a friend (or boyfriend), you should try to fix that.  That goes beyond the game.

That's some severe player paranoia, when the player hasn't even generated a character and is still trying to flee from NPCs who want to talk to the PC.

It's hard to tell if the poster is delusional or trolling.

It actually seems like a pretty inventive/useful way to start learning a new game system and character, to start them in a VR simulation. Might be good to let the players in on it.

With this player, it might do to have them wake up in a maximum security psych ward, and have to endure therapy to cure their paranoid schizophrenia before being released.

Does the GF *play* RPGs?

Did the OP even for a moment consider telling his GF that his imagined homoerotic overtones to "riding the worm" were freaking him out enough that he didn't want to play that scenario? Especially before he basically flipped the table and shut down the VR and then seriously considered using a stun grenade on his NPC old friend?

The GF is right the OP does run from plot hooks. It seems like he was doing everything in his power to make sure her first experience trying to run an RPG for him was also her last. Next time, if there even is a next time, try saying "yes, and..." instead of "no, but..."

Maybe the life lesson here, OP, is that you are afraid of intimacy. By running away from plot hooks you are symbolically running away from COMMITMENT. You need to get on the Steve Wilkos show asap to work out your issues.

Quote from: Skarg;923243It's hard to tell if the poster is delusional or trolling.

Not that fucking hard.  We should start shouting for Norwegian and Swedish hunters.

If your character is in the Dune setting, and on being told you're going to "ride the worm" you think penis rather than Shai-Hulud.... that says more about you than anything else.

Beyond that, it was clear that your GF had a "plot" in mind, and wasn't so great at guiding you into it gently.  So, hey, novice GM, what do you expect?  And instead of figuring that out and going along with it, you take every opportunity to screw with her plan.

I get it.  I don't like railroads.  But for your GF to plan stuff out for you and then have you sabotage it... pretty screwy.  It'd make more sense to just go along with it to start, and then give her some coaching after the fact.  Like "Hey, I see you were trying to do X, here's some techniques that work really well for that."

Oh, and this has nothing to do with anything being rules-light.

Maybe OP is like 16. That would explain it. People tend to play a lot differently at that age.

*I roll to disbelieve*

OK, then. OP? You suck as a player and suck even worse as a boyfriend. As a troll, you are moderately successful.

Guys, just for the record - I don't care if it's a troll. I've seen such behaviour in new players.
Might be useful to discuss good approaches to help them overcome it.

Quote from: abcd_z;923147She meant the Shai-hulud, but I have a dirty mind and was not okay with riding a gigantic phallic creature.

Quote from: abcd_z;923147See, my character was supposed to be friends with the NPC for a long time, but from my out-of-character perspective this was my first interaction with the guy and I didn't trust him at all. For all I knew, the GM was planning some sort of plot twist that would screw me over. In fact, I was tempted to just throw down a stun-grenade and get the hell out of there. I didn't, but it was a close one.

Quote from: abcd_z;923147he doesn't take any visible damage from my attack and avoids my stun grenade

Quote from: abcd_z;923147She's asking me to make a lot of decisions about non-urgent things, which I don't handle well in the context of RPGs.

Quote from: abcd_z;923147A few hours later, after going over the Dungeon-World inspired combat rules again, she starts by making an hobo NPC with several Moves, including "swindle money".

Quote from: abcd_z;923147Then she spends 5-10 minutes asking me what I do, where I go, etc. etc. in tedious detail. I was coming back from picking up some last-minute supplies from a local drug store. I'm getting ready to move away from the town.

Quote from: abcd_z;923147I had been asked to make a lot of non-urgent decisions, which, again, I don't handle well in RPGs (it drains me), so we stopped there.

3/10 - Obvious troll is obvious.  
1-Point for the girlfriend.  Great trollbait.
1-Point for Dungeon World reference.  Ditto.  
1-Point for VR "Magical Appearing Hobo" making for a pretty good Horror RPG (I lol'd).

I have re-read the post. And changed my position.

Good move OP.

The worm was definatly a metaphor for homosexual life style, not that there is anything wrong with that, but the fact that theDM your GF kept telling you you had a 'strong desire to ride it' means she clearly had a strong SJW agenda.  When you rejected her agenda, she introduced increasingly heavy handed 'moderators' first the friend then the hobo. Obviously forceing you to accept the SJW agenda.  

But you thwarted them all!  Screw those dirty hippies and their story games!

Okay i skimmed this and imho this thread is a ..............(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/e/e6/4e_trolls.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20081013203531)

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maeh4grtB11qkc52jo1_500.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/GfkI5D7.jpg)

Three pages in and the one-post-wonder still has... one post.

I'm actually relieved. Someone with this much contempt for his girlfriend whilst completely ruining her first game could represent the worse kind of player in our hobby. Instead it's just a story FANTASIZING about the possible worse kind of player in our hobby.

Fetishes are common. It was only a matter of time before someone latched onto the Misogynist Oblivious Troll. As far as that type of story goes this is plain terrible.

Of course he's not back.  He asked for help and he got three pages telling him he sucks a role playing.  With a couple of 'you're a bad person' and 'why are you such a dick to someone tring to spend time with you' thrown in for good measure.

You guys are ass holes to people who come here asking for help.  And it seams you are just about as clueless as the OP about what you are doing wrong.

Quote from: Headless;923335Of course he's not back.  He asked for help and he got three pages telling him he sucks a role playing.  With a couple of 'you're a bad person' and 'why are you such a dick to someone tring to spend time with you' thrown in for good measure.

You guys are ass holes to people who come here asking for help.  And it seams you are just about as clueless as the OP about what you are doing wrong.

I think you have a great point (you're dead right) but you're kind of doing the same thing here.  No need for the forum to insult the OP, and no need for you to insult the forum.  With the rest of the forum, nobody wants to be the guy who got tricked by a troll.  Personally, I don't actually care if I got fooled into giving a serious reply for a fake question.

In fact, I think this was the best point of the thread:

Quote from: AsenRG;923294Guys, just for the record - I don't care if it's a troll. I've seen such behaviour in new players.
Might be useful to discuss good approaches to help them overcome it.

Why don't we see more maturity like this online?  We're all supposedly adults, here.

Lately, I've learned to simply drop the insults from my online comments.  It's actually quite easy, but it took me a long time to come to the realization that I should do this.

Shitty, unhelpful player who did nothing to allow his significant other to develop any GM chops. He assumes she's doing it wrong then fucks up her game. Douche. Advice? Stop being a prick and try to have some actual fun.

Quote from: Headless;923335Of course he's not back.  He asked for help and he got three pages telling him he sucks a role playing.  With a couple of 'you're a bad person' and 'why are you such a dick to someone tring to spend time with you' thrown in for good measure.

You guys are ass holes to people who come here asking for help.  And it seams you are just about as clueless as the OP about what you are doing wrong.

So... as usual... you didnt bother to read the opening post and went straight to attacking the responses...

Quote from: Headless;923335Of course he's not back.  He asked for help and he got three pages telling him he sucks a role playing.  With a couple of 'you're a bad person' and 'why are you such a dick to someone tring to spend time with you' thrown in for good measure.

You guys are ass holes to people who come here asking for help.  And it seams you are just about as clueless as the OP about what you are doing wrong.

Assuming the guy wasn't trolling - which is an assumption that seems incredibly naive to me - what about the OP makes you think he deserves "help"? Is everyone who is a self-absorbed douchebag roleplayer suddenly entitled to mockery free relationship advice from us? I must have missed that part in the site's charter.

Quote from: TristramEvans;923366Assuming the guy wasn't trolling - which is an assumption that seems incredibly naive to me - what about the OP makes you think he deserves "help"?

Is everyone who is a self-absorbed douchebag roleplayer suddenly entitled to mockery free relationship advice from us? I must have missed that part in the site's charter.

1: To me it just reads like standard opposing playstyles with a dash of possible railroad aversion on the players part turning the session into a train wreck. IE: Nothing new here. Look at the opposed responses to rgroves posts on his particular style here for one recent example.

2: Maybee Headless thought he was on BGG? :rolleyes:

Quote from: Headless;923335Of course he's not back.  He asked for help and he got three pages telling him he sucks a role playing.  With a couple of 'you're a bad person' and 'why are you such a dick to someone tring to spend time with you' thrown in for good measure.

You guys are ass holes to people who come here asking for help.  And it seams you are just about as clueless as the OP about what you are doing wrong.

We can definitely be assholes here but the post smelled like trolling to us all and he would have gotten it just as bad at any other forum for that particular post. Also, the guy registered here a while back and this was his first post. It is the nature of forums. People are cagey with new posters.

Really, does ANYBODY seriously think this isn't a troll?

Quote from: AsenRG;923294Guys, just for the record - I don't care if it's a troll. I've seen such behaviour in new players.
Might be useful to discuss good approaches to help them overcome it.

"Don't be an asshole" covers it all.  Seriously.  That's why I refuse to believe it's not a troll; how did somebody with such poor social skills get a girlfriend.

No credibility at all.

My hat of bad trolls know no limit.

Quote from: AsenRG;923294Guys, just for the record - I don't care if it's a troll. I've seen such behaviour in new players.
Might be useful to discuss good approaches to help them overcome it.

Mighty smackings and whackings heaped upon the head?

No game can survive relentless antagonism between the players and the GM. And I find the more freeform it is, the more buy-in is required from the players right off the bat.

Quote from: Headless;923335Of course he's not back.  He asked for help and he got three pages telling him he sucks a role playing.  With a couple of 'you're a bad person' and 'why are you such a dick to someone tring to spend time with you' thrown in for good measure.

You guys are ass holes to people who come here asking for help.  And it seams you are just about as clueless as the OP about what you are doing wrong.

Why, do you think him to be a decent player? I wouldn't. But I also have the experience to take him aside for a chat and give him...the same pointers I posted in my first post in the thread, actually.
His GF didn't have that kind of experience.

And yeah, I agree the tone could be less harsh, towards a new member. Alas for said member, that's TheRPGSite: you don't come here unless you're prepared to deal with scathing criticism.

Quote from: Edgewise;923339In fact, I think this was the best point of the thread:


Why don't we see more maturity like this online?  We're all supposedly adults, here.

Lately, I've learned to simply drop the insults from my online comments.  It's actually quite easy, but it took me a long time to come to the realization that I should do this.

First, thanks for the praise:).

Second, I'd note that most people that add insults to their comments assumed him to be a troll. Insulting trolls? That's gotta be a tradition at least since Gandalf did it for a whole night...;)

Now, maybe the should have given it the benefit of the doubt. But it was an adequate reaction given their assumptions.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;923378Really, does ANYBODY seriously think this isn't a troll?

I'm still not sure. I've probably seen people like that too often to be able to take 20 on the Disbelieve save.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;923379"Don't be an asshole" covers it all.  Seriously.

No, it doesn't, until you explain also why that's something an asshole would do. Believe it or not: many people don't get it by themselves.
Gary, biggest mistake, players - according to you.

QuoteThat's why I refuse to believe it's not a troll; how did somebody with such poor social skills get a girlfriend.

I've seen this happening, too. Online dating seems to work even for people with poor social skills;).

Quote from: TristramEvans;923394Mighty smackings and whackings heaped upon the head?

While amusing in and of itself, it's less practical if you want them to come to next session having learned something.

Quote from: Harg of the City Afar;923398No game can survive relentless antagonism between the players and the GM. And I find the more freeform it is, the more buy-in is required from the players right off the bat.

There's no disputing that:D!
So the OP should learn how to be less antagonistic.

Quote from: AsenRG;923401While amusing in and of itself, it's less practical if you want them to come to next session having learned something.

Oh, I don't want him coming back.:D The rehabilitation required for that sort of tool requires years.

Quote from: TristramEvans;923403Oh, I don't want him coming back.:D The rehabilitation required for that sort of tool requires years.

Either your friends are bigger tools than mine when it comes to roleplaying, I'm a better teacher, or you just have no patience. You tell me which one it is, but I still wouldn't push away anyone who wants to play:).

Also, nobody has ever needed years, in my memory, before improving to a decent level, given constant tips;).

Quote from: AsenRG;923416Either your friends are bigger tools than mine when it comes to roleplaying, I'm a better teacher, or you just have no patience. You tell me which one it is, but I still wouldn't push away anyone who wants to play:).

I'm not that desperate for players, so I guess "no patience" is the answer? Or maybe I'm perceiving deeper problems in the OP's account than you're seeing?

Quote from: Headless;923335Of course he's not back.  He asked for help and he got three pages telling him he sucks a role playing.  With a couple of 'you're a bad person' and 'why are you such a dick to someone tring to spend time with you' thrown in for good measure.

You guys are ass holes to people who come here asking for help.  And it seams you are just about as clueless as the OP about what you are doing wrong.

Oh fuck him and fuck you, you useless cunting milquetoast.  :D

Grove stepped into the Mosh Pit, got bodychecked by nearly everybody and is still around.  abc_z's (gee, wonder if it's a throwaway account) a "new" poster who made the account months ago.  He hasn't read enough of the site to know elbows get thrown, then he an idiot.  If he can't take the response to a post like that and come back with at least "Screw you guys", then he ain't gonna make it here.

But, no, the answer is the simplest, Troll Post from Troll Account.

Goddamn, could you just go away and give your account to the real Mr. T?  He's way fucking smarter than you. He pities the fool that can't spot a Troll Post.

Quote from: TristramEvans;923419I'm not that desperate for players, so I guess "no patience" is the answer? Or maybe I'm perceiving deeper problems in the OP's account than you're seeing?

Nah, that's just the Euro-Anarchist "there is nothing, ever, I will not argue with" contrarian side of him coming out.

Also he's younger, he hasn't realized some people just aren't worth the time, because he has a lot more of it. :D

Quote from: TristramEvans;923419I'm not that desperate for players, so I guess "no patience" is the answer? Or maybe I'm perceiving deeper problems in the OP's account than you're seeing?

I don't know how deep are the problems you're perceiving:).
And I don't need more players than already live with me, so "desperate for players" is about as far from true as it could be. It's a matter of principle to me to not push people away, unless I perceive them as truly hopeless cases.
Well, or unless we get into a personal conflict, but in that case, they just don't count;).

Quote from: CRKrueger;923435Nah, that's just the Euro-Anarchist "there is nothing, ever, I will not argue with" contrarian side of him coming out.

Also he's younger, he hasn't realized some people just aren't worth the time, because he has a lot more of it. :D

It might be the latter, but I'm not exactly an Anarchist:p.
The other part is easy to tell, too, just remind me of this thread in 2026 and I'll tell you whether my perspective has changed with age:D!

Quote from: AsenRG;923453I don't know how deep are the problems you're perceiving:).

I see them as pretty deep--but am also in the "troll!" belief category. The player in question was not interested in playing the game and did nothing but insult and ignore any attempt to engage them. And thinks they did nothing wrong.

Somebody that obtuse isn't worth spending time on. But like many here, I have the players I need, and they're awesome.

Quote from: Tod13;923460Somebody that obtuse isn't worth spending time on. But like many here, I have the players I need, and they're awesome.

For what it's worth he is at least nominally trying to get better. He did come looking for help.  

And I don't think it's a troll account. Too much detail,  too slice of life, I've met guys like that.  Who think role playing is about pretending to be cool.  

But also I really don't understand the appeal if trolling.

Is there a word for people who troll by trolling the people who call troll?

It does seem like a troll to me, but I've seen enough way-off-base perspectives (even ones that I wish were trolling and seem like it because they use language that seems too obviously self-mocking or to say things that I'd think should indicate knowing better) on RPG forums that I can't be entirely sure.

And I agree with the idea that it's more interesting to reply to the idea, if we have anything interesting to say about it, than to call out the troll, unless it's just ridiculous and time-wasting to do anything else.

I wasn't going to reply, but then it occurred to me that I have met and gamed with many very paranoid players. I have seen that it is quite possible to get a fun paranoid game just by mentioning mundane details of ordinary non-adventure situations and daily life to players, and watching them leap to conclusions and take weird actions.

Also I thought it was worth mentioning that the VR session could be a decent way to learn a new RPG system without actually killing off PCs right away.

Also it could be the GM or someone who got into a discussion somewhere else and is coming here posting a hypothetical story as if it were really someone posting that, to get feedback for that other discussion.

Quote from: Headless;923463For what it's worth he is at least nominally trying to get better. He did come looking for help.  

And I don't think it's a troll account. Too much detail,  too slice of life, I've met guys like that.  Who think role playing is about pretending to be cool.  

But also I really don't understand the appeal if trolling.

But the attitude wasn't "what went wrong" --or at least didn't come across that way to me. The attitude was "how do I get my GM not to be horrible"?

And, to a degree, possibly more importantly, the OP hasn't posted anything else since.

Quote from: Tod13;923460I see them as pretty deep--but am also in the "troll!" belief category. The player in question was not interested in playing the game and did nothing but insult and ignore any attempt to engage them. And thinks they did nothing wrong.

Somebody that obtuse isn't worth spending time on. But like many here, I have the players I need, and they're awesome.

Yeah, I call that "newbies don't know better".
Just like many here, I have all the players I need, and they're awesome, but I want to teach new people to play.

Quote from: Skarg;923464Is there a word for people who troll by trolling the people who call troll?

Quadratic trolls:D?

Quote from: Skarg;923464Is there a word for people who troll by trolling the people who call troll?

"Ettining"? :)

Quote from: AsenRG;923485Yeah, I call that "newbies don't know better".
Just like many here, I have all the players I need, and they're awesome, but I want to teach new people to play.

I'm also factoring in the fact they've never responded.

Quote from: Headless;923463For what it's worth he is at least nominally trying to get better. He did come looking for help.  

And I don't think it's a troll account. Too much detail,  too slice of life, I've met guys like that.  Who think role playing is about pretending to be cool.  

But also I really don't understand the appeal if trolling.

I just didn't get any of that from the OP. To me it looked like a pure troll job. I still answered sincerely but I seriously doubted the sincerity of the OP.

Though I wonder what the reaction would have been had the OP said they were a girl and the GM was a guy.

Odds are half the posters calling troll would have instead been backing her in her battle against the vile railroading DM.

Quote from: Omega;923503Though I wonder what the reaction would have been had the OP said they were a girl and the GM was a guy.

Odds are half the posters calling troll would have instead been backing her in her battle against the vile railroading DM.

I really don't think so at all. This just sounded like a troll job or a really crappy player who didn't have any patience with a new GM, whether it was a man or woman.

Quote from: Omega;923503Though I wonder what the reaction would have been had the OP said they were a girl and the GM was a guy.

Odds are half the posters calling troll would have instead been backing her in her battle against the vile railroading DM.

My reaction would have been to change the word "boyfriend" to "girlfriend" in my post. A douchebag is still a douchebag, regardless of genitalia.
That is called equality.

Damn guys, if he was a troll, then he won, because here you are still discussing this.

Quote from: Tod13;923495I'm also factoring in the fact they've never responded.

There's the possibility that he just got scared by the backlash, the remote option that he went to read on improv in order to enhance his playstyle, or the possibility of it being a troll job. Any of these would be enough to explain the silence, but there's more than one option.

Quote from: Omega;923503Though I wonder what the reaction would have been had the OP said they were a girl and the GM was a guy.

Odds are half the posters calling troll would have instead been backing her in her battle against the vile railroading DM.

None of my reactions would have changed, except for switching the genders, although I said already that it doesn't matter to me whether he intended to troll people.

Quote from: Omega;923503Though I wonder what the reaction would have been had the OP said they were a girl and the GM was a guy.

Odds are half the posters calling troll would have instead been backing her in her battle against the vile railroading DM.

I think you may be overestimating that a bit

Quote from: AsenRG;923453I don't know how deep are the problems you're perceiving:).

Well, the purest indication to me that it's a troll is how much it seems specifically crafted to throw up red flags. Starts with intense juvenile homophobia, of the kind I'd attribute to someone who hasn't progressed emotionally beyond the age of 13, which draws doubt into the likelihood of a girlfriend existing (though some girls do have low enough self esteem to put up with that kinda crap at a young age). The specific mention of making an OOC choice on a forum notable for being heavily populated by the immersionist camp.  The specific calling attention to the game being rules lite on a board also generally swayed against high crunch games like D&D 4th edition (without actually mentioning the system itself). And the completely exaggerated antagonism towards a hypothetical first time GM who the person is supposedly in a close relationship with. Also the nature of the scenario itself which could, other factors ignored, be the amateurish scenario of a first time GM trying to create "hooks", but in context seems wildly unfocused serving more than anything just to illustrate and highlight the douchebaggery of the player at every turn.

To even engage it as anything besides a trolling attempt seems mildly pointless, but to go there....if someone I knew in real life came to me and told me this story, that wouldn't just be an indication I'd never want to roleplay with this person, I'd probably end the friendship. This is the story of someone who is so lacking in maturity that they either are an adolescent (hence my comment about it taking several years for them to grow out of it), or they are an emotionally stunted manchild (in which case they're unlikely to ever grow out of it).

QuoteAnd I don't need more players than already live with me, so "desperate for players" is about as far from true as it could be. It's a matter of principle to me to not push people away, unless I perceive them as truly hopeless cases.
Well, or unless we get into a personal conflict, but in that case, they just don't count;).

I'd alternatively be tempted to reach out to the GF and offer to include her in some real games, because when it comes to valuing new people in the hobby, the OP seems like exactly the sort of person that could ruin the hobby for a new person and keep them away from it. I'm not a huge proponent of inclusivity, there are lots of people I think the hobby would be better off without.

Frankly if they are not a troll the best way to disprove us is to keep posting.

Quote from: kosmos1214;923522Frankly if they are not a troll the best way to disprove us is to keep posting.

Yeah, if there was any shred of doubt, the lack of further posts cemented it.

Thank you to all of you who were willing to engage with me and give constructive advice, even if you did suspect me of being a troll.  Skywalker, Omega, mAcular Chaotic, robiswrong, thank you for your advice.  Edgewise and AsenRPG especially, thank you.

Sniderman, yes, I realize I handled that wrong.  If this entire thread is any indication, I handled the entire situation wrong.

Ratman_tf, thanks for that.  Made me laugh.  ;)

AsenRP, Edgeless, and Headless: thank you for sticking up for me (or at least giving me the benefit of the doubt).  You were right; the biggest reason I didn't respond was because of the backlash.  I hadn't planned to respond, but then my silence was being used as evidence that I was a troll, so... I guess I felt like I had to prove to random people online that I'm not a troll?  I probably didn't think that one through very well.

Going forward, I'm going to work on treating the game as a collaborative work.  "Yes, and" instead of "no, because".  

Thank you again to those of you who gave me the benefit of the doubt.

-abcd_z

Quote from: TristramEvans;923518I think you may be overestimating that a bit

Considering some of the past rabid reactions of members here to even the hint of railroading and storyganing?

Quote from: kosmos1214;923522Frankly if they are not a troll the best way to disprove us is to keep posting.

Indeed.

I'd like to hear what happened after or the OPs reasons for being so against that style of play.

Quote from: abcd_z;923538Thank you to all of you who were willing to engage with me and give constructive advice, even if you did suspect me of being a troll.  Skywalker, Omega, mAcular Chaotic, robiswrong, thank you for your advice.  Edgewise and AsenRPG especially, thank you.

Sniderman, yes, I realize I handled that wrong.  If this entire thread is any indication, I handled the entire situation wrong.

Ratman_tf, thanks for that.  Made me laugh.  ;)

AsenRP, Edgeless, and Headless: thank you for sticking up for me (or at least giving me the benefit of the doubt).  You were right; the biggest reason I didn't respond was because of the backlash.  I hadn't planned to respond, but then my silence was being used as evidence that I was a troll, so... I guess I felt like I had to prove to random people online that I'm not a troll?  I probably didn't think that one through very well.

Going forward, I'm going to work on treating the game as a collaborative work.  "Yes, and" instead of "no, because".  

Thank you again to those of you who gave me the benefit of the doubt.

-abcd_z

Welcome to RPGsite. Here is your complimentary WWII trench helmet for surviving the shelling. :cool:

Quote from: abcd_z;923538Going forward, I'm going to work on treating the game as a collaborative work.  "Yes, and" instead of "no, because".

Rofl, nicely played.

Quote from: Omega;923540Indeed.

I'd like to hear what happened after or the OPs reasons for being so against that style of play.

Immediately afterwards, nothing.  We hung out and eventually went to bed.  Later I did some online searches to figure out what went wrong, and came to the conclusion that my character just didn't have any explicit motivation, and that *that* could be remedied by fleshing out the world and connecting my character to the world through his backstory.

It's not entirely wrong, but neither is it the root of the problem.  If I don't engage with the GM, the backstory and motivations could just as easily be turned into, "my character wouldn't do that, and here's why."  Obviously not the best outcome.

As for why I was so against her plot hooks?  I'm not entirely certain.  I could give you a few guesses, but that's all they'd be; guesses.  Maybe I was passive-aggressively indicating that I didn't like her plot hooks.  Maybe I've been the GM for so long that I've picked up some bad habits as a player.  Maybe I'm afraid of becoming emotionally vulnerable, so I have to keep my character safe no matter what happens. (Don't laugh; I've had some messed up stuff happen in my past.)

Quote from: abcd_z;923547As for why I was so against her plot hooks?  I'm not entirely certain.  I could give you a few guesses, but that's all they'd be; guesses.  Maybe I was passive-aggressively indicating that I didn't like her plot hooks.  Maybe I've been the GM for so long that I've picked up some bad habits as a player.  Maybe I'm afraid of becoming emotionally vulnerable, so I have to keep my character safe no matter what happens. (Don't laugh; I've had some messed up stuff happen in my past.)

As a player I've had quite a few instances where plot hooks just didnt appeal to me and I didnt bite. Thats fairly common. But usually its just one of many hooks and I know to move forward Im going to have to take one or bite the bullet and essentially forge off into the unknown and hope the DM doesnt fold.

Could be the lack of alternatives was a problem. One hook isnt a hook really since theres nothing else to get caught on.

"The town sheriff wants to talk to you...now..." er... and? Thats all? Nothing else? Depending on my character I'll likely follow that lead just to see whats up. Curiosity is my bane I know. :o

Id rather see
- the town sheriff wants to talk to me, and theres a rumour that strange lights were seen over old man Pearsons farm, and Nora has some hysterical tale of a worm monster eating her dog. -

Quote from: abcd_z;923538Going forward, I'm going to work on treating the game as a collaborative work.  "Yes, and" instead of "no, because".  

(https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Futurama-Fry.jpg)

Quote from: Omega;923539Considering some of the past rabid reactions of members here to even the hint of railroading and storyganing?

OK, I can see that PoV, I just don't see it from a gender bias. OTOH, if the GM was a guy and he kept wanting a girl player to "ride the worm" I might regard that a bit differently...

Quote from: Headless;923335Of course he's not back.  He asked for help and he got three pages telling him he sucks a role playing.  With a couple of 'you're a bad person' and 'why are you such a dick to someone tring to spend time with you' thrown in for good measure.

You guys are ass holes to people who come here asking for help.  And it seams you are just about as clueless as the OP about what you are doing wrong.

Total exaggeration. There have been plenty of posts here where people are sincerely seeking advice, comments, opinions or reviews and "the site abides". We're just smart enough to smell a troll when we read one. Or see a troll when we smell one. Or, you get what I'm saying. Just because I don't hug every person at the door does NOT mean I'm an asshole. When I admonish you or belittle you for having the apparent IQ of a brick THEN I'm being an asshole. I'm perfectly aware of when I'm being an asshole thank you very much and I will NOT spare the rod. I've noticed not too many of the posters here spare the rod either, so I'm obviously in good company. "Boo Hoo - you're all mean - Boo Hoo" is a lame argument.

Quote from: TristramEvans;923550(https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Futurama-Fry.jpg)

I know, right?  What's next, a Ron Edwards/Vince Baker namedrop?

Quote from: TristramEvans;923552OTOH, if the GM was a guy and he kept wanting a girl player to "ride the worm" I might regard that a bit differently...

That will be in the next PC SJW Dune  movie... :confused:

Quote from: CRKrueger;923545Rofl, nicely played.

Quote from: TristramEvans;923550(https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Futurama-Fry.jpg)

What am I missing here?

Credibility, mostly.  Many of us still think you're trolling.

If not, you didn't just treat your girlfriend's game badly, you treated her badly.  You acted like a jerk, plain and simple, in ways that had nothing to do with gaming.

Quote from: abcd_z;923560What am I missing here?

There are just a lot of things in that post that suggest troll to people here.

Quote from: abcd_z;923547As for why I was so against her plot hooks?  I'm not entirely certain.  I could give you a few guesses, but that's all they'd be; guesses.  Maybe I was passive-aggressively indicating that I didn't like her plot hooks.  Maybe I've been the GM for so long that I've picked up some bad habits as a player.  Maybe I'm afraid of becoming emotionally vulnerable, so I have to keep my character safe no matter what happens. (Don't laugh; I've had some messed up stuff happen in my past.)

I think this is worth exploring. You are not alone in developing bad habits as a player based on past experience, and being primarily a GM can exaggerate this as you feel the loss of the normal power you have to defend yourself. Unfortunately, your behaviour is likely just passing on your faults on to a new GM, so as the experienced RPGer of the two I think the burden is more on you to work through these issues to create a more positive gaming experience for the both of you.

Quote from: CRKrueger;923556I know, right?  What's next, a Ron Edwards/Vince Baker namedrop?

It was much more clever than the first post, I'll give it that, but at the same time absolutely damning.

Quote from: TristramEvans;923567It was much more clever than the first post, I'll give it that, but at the same time absolutely damning.

Seriously, what am I missing here?

They still think you are a troll.  Actually they might be trolling you telling you you're a troll.  The neck beards can get pretty deep around here.

It can be very difficult to role play with out a sense of your charcter,  as you said you had no motivation.  

Bruce Lee said the highest martial arts style is to be with out style.  But if you go there from the start you are just sloppy.

If doing free form stuff in the future remember you have to go with what ever is offered.  There is no setting to fall back on, so if you reject the adventure your GF brought you have to bring your own.  

I've run a couple of very successful completely free form 1 or 2 player games.  I always start by asking the players what setting they wanted and what objective they wanted.  Then we refine that a bit.  Then I ask them who they are, we refine a bit.  Then I give them an intro.  "This is who you are, this is who you work for, this is what happening in the world/what's important to you.  This is what you are being asked to do right now. Any questions?"

If we had done all that and you then told me "I don't want to ride the worm?" I would have told you to subvert the plans, or come up with a new tatic for achieving the objective, or try and talk Shai-Hulud into rolling over and getting his belly rubbed.  But it's on you now.  Or go do the dishes.

Well, you seem like a legit user now to me.

This place is just very rough, so get used to that.

Basically, all you have to think of when you do 1 on 1 RPGs is that you're working together.

Guys, I don't care if he's a troll. I'm achieving my objective here - I'm killing time while recovering from a flu.
If I wasn't, I likely wouldn't have visited the forum often, and thus wouldn't have seen this whole thread.

Quote from: abcd_z;923538Thank you to all of you who were willing to engage with me and give constructive advice, even if you did suspect me of being a troll.  Skywalker, Omega, mAcular Chaotic, robiswrong, thank you for your advice.  Edgewise and AsenRPG especially, thank you.

Sniderman, yes, I realize I handled that wrong.  If this entire thread is any indication, I handled the entire situation wrong.

Ratman_tf, thanks for that.  Made me laugh.  ;)

AsenRP, Edgeless, and Headless: thank you for sticking up for me (or at least giving me the benefit of the doubt).  You were right; the biggest reason I didn't respond was because of the backlash.  I hadn't planned to respond, but then my silence was being used as evidence that I was a troll, so... I guess I felt like I had to prove to random people online that I'm not a troll?  I probably didn't think that one through very well.

Going forward, I'm going to work on treating the game as a collaborative work.  "Yes, and" instead of "no, because".  

Thank you again to those of you who gave me the benefit of the doubt.

-abcd_z

First: if you want to persuade people you're not a troll, posting in this thread is a good first step. But it's only after you post in some other threads that the doubts are likely to dissipate:).
Also, you're thinking in terms of improvisation (BTW, is your GF familiar with Improv and/or creative writing? If she is and you aren't, that might be the explanation).
But, to many people here, using terms as "collaborative exercise" and "yes, and"...while technically right, would brand you as a "dirty storygamer" or some such. In fact, many people prefer to avoid the terms even when speaking about stuff they should cover - it's a quirk of the site. So much so, that they believe you're trolling them just for mentioning Dungeon World and "Yes, and..." (their reasoning being that anyone who has registered some time ago would know not to do that if he wants to avoid a backlash).
I'm not saying you should do the same, but the admin (TheRPGPundit) believes he's on a quest to purge the influence of dirty storygamers from RPGs, or some such. Don't worry, he's not into banning people for disagreeing with him.
However, I'd suggest that since you're playing a custom Dungeon World campaign (or some other game of the same family), and/or your GF is using the "improv way" in her GMing (maybe


Second: you did it wrong, yes. Now forget that - you own her one apology, but that's between you. The question is how not to do the same in the future.
not consciously, but it sure seemed so from your description)...you would do well to look more into improv. In fact, I'd suggest you'd do well to make some improv exercises together.
http://improvencyclopedia.org/categories/Exercise.html
They should help with improvising "everyday details", too. Oh, and they're fun!

My only other advice will echo what Headless said, but in other words:
Keep the momentum going!
If you can think of what to do, feel free to reject her plot hooks.
If you can't, think of a reason why your character would accept it. Think what it tells you about the character, too - but later, when you have the time. This should help with building characters that might well surprise you, too.

Also, this advice applies well even when playing system-heavy games. Early D&D players had a procedure what to do: when going into a town, they bought everybody in the tavern a drink, tipped the bartender, and asked to be filled on local rumours - especially rumours that might pertain to treasure and/or people needing someone for possibly dangerous situations.
Then they picked something from what they heard, and/or combined them. If you hear someone is paying to be smuggled out of the city, and someone else is looking for guards for a caravan...well, you only have to find someone to disguise the first guy, present him as a party member, and get hired to keep that caravan! Win-win, and double the money.
It's possible you know that already - but you might have overlooked that this means they were never out of things to do.

Conversely, you might ask your GF to come up with a list of things to do and let you pick from them. We mostly call that "sandbox" around here, and it might be a nice compromise between your styles.
If you decide to go this way, you can print my post and show it to the GF - but I'd avoid printing the whole thread, if I was you;).

Oh, and you mention you've been a GM? When she presents you with a plothook, imagine it was you who presented it to a player. Than do what you'd like this player to do in your session:D!

Quote from: Headless;923573They still think you are a troll.  Actually they might be trolling you telling you you're a troll.  The neck beards can get pretty deep around here.

It can be very difficult to role play with out a sense of your charcter,  as you said you had no motivation.  

Bruce Lee said the highest martial arts style is to be with out style.  But if you go there from the start you are just sloppy.

If doing free form stuff in the future remember you have to go with what ever is offered.  There is no setting to fall back on, so if you reject the adventure your GF brought you have to bring your own.  

I've run a couple of very successful completely free form 1 or 2 player games.  I always start by asking the players what setting they wanted and what objective they wanted.  Then we refine that a bit.  Then I ask them who they are, we refine a bit.  Then I give them an intro.  "This is who you are, this is who you work for, this is what happening in the world/what's important to you.  This is what you are being asked to do right now. Any questions?"

If we had done all that and you then told me "I don't want to ride the worm?" I would have told you to subvert the plans, or come up with a new tatic for achieving the objective, or try and talk Shai-Hulud into rolling over and getting his belly rubbed.  But it's on you now.  Or go do the dishes.

That is true, as noted above (though they're playing system-light, not systemless...it seems).
But when playing or running freeform, I prefer to just talk about the setting a bit before the game begins. It achieves the same as being ready to jump on every opportunity, I've found.

Improv, shmimprov.

This is yet another variation on "players who won't get involved." If I had a pint of beer for every thread here and elsewhere about "how do you get players involved who deliberately refuse to get involved" I'd never have to buy my own beer again.  This is the RPG version of the two year old who just learned the word "NO" and proceeds to say "NO!" to everything, and even more tedious if the person doing it is older than two.  It's like asking "Want to go out to eat?" "Sure." And then the person who said "sure" proceeds to shoot down every suggested restaurant within forty miles.

If I could speak to the "girlfriend" here I'd tell her "After the second time somebody refuses to play, you stop and say 'if you don't want to play why are you here?' "

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;923671It's like asking "Want to go out to eat?" "Sure." And then the person who said "sure" proceeds to shoot down every suggested restaurant within forty miles.

But what happens if you really want to have a girlfriend?

Quote from: abcd_z;923538Thank you to all of you who were willing to engage with me and give constructive advice, even if you did suspect me of being a troll.  Skywalker, Omega, mAcular Chaotic, robiswrong, thank you for your advice.  Edgewise and AsenRPG especially, thank you.

Sniderman, yes, I realize I handled that wrong.  If this entire thread is any indication, I handled the entire situation wrong.

Ratman_tf, thanks for that.  Made me laugh.  ;)

AsenRP, Edgeless, and Headless: thank you for sticking up for me (or at least giving me the benefit of the doubt).  You were right; the biggest reason I didn't respond was because of the backlash.  I hadn't planned to respond, but then my silence was being used as evidence that I was a troll, so... I guess I felt like I had to prove to random people online that I'm not a troll?  I probably didn't think that one through very well.

Going forward, I'm going to work on treating the game as a collaborative work.  "Yes, and" instead of "no, because".  

Thank you again to those of you who gave me the benefit of the doubt.

-abcd_z

Frankly I'm happy to have been proven wrong welcome to the site.
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Don't worry to much about the reaction some people are having, this place is on more then its fair share of hit lists, so we can be a bit leery at times.
If you keep hanging around they will get used to you and stop thinking you are a troll. Also keep in mind that people here do defend there opinions and you are free to do the same, and as headless said the neck beard can get deep at times, but don't worry they mean well.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;923671Improv, shmimprov.

This is yet another variation on "players who won't get involved." If I had a pint of beer for every thread here and elsewhere about "how do you get players involved who deliberately refuse to get involved" I'd never have to buy my own beer again.  This is the RPG version of the two year old who just learned the word "NO" and proceeds to say "NO!" to everything, and even more tedious if the person doing it is older than two.  It's like asking "Want to go out to eat?" "Sure." And then the person who said "sure" proceeds to shoot down every suggested restaurant within forty miles.

If I could speak to the "girlfriend" here I'd tell her "After the second time somebody refuses to play, you stop and say 'if you don't want to play why are you here?' "

Well, it had to happen sometime. I mean you live long enough and shit. But I agree 100% with El Gronan. (I believe my previous high was 67%!):-)

Quote from: abcd_z;923547As for why I was so against her plot hooks?  I'm not entirely certain.  I could give you a few guesses, but that's all they'd be; guesses.  Maybe I was passive-aggressively indicating that I didn't like her plot hooks.  Maybe I've been the GM for so long that I've picked up some bad habits as a player.  Maybe I'm afraid of becoming emotionally vulnerable, so I have to keep my character safe no matter what happens. (Don't laugh; I've had some messed up stuff happen in my past.)

Substantively, I'm with Gronan.  The way RPGs are played is that players follow up the plot hooks they're given.  Passing up several in a row, whatever your reasons or justifications, is being aggressively obnoxious.  I might follow up with hitting the brakes and asking you just exactly what you *would* buy into, although I'd likely say so with a considerable bite in my voice.

But if you can't trust your own girlfriend not to maliciously screw you over, in a solo run where your decisions and roleplay aren't under scrutiny from anyone else, then man, you've got trust issues you really need to work on and through before you're able to be a player in anyone's game.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;923671Improv, shmimprov.

This is yet another variation on "players who won't get involved." If I had a pint of beer for every thread here and elsewhere about "how do you get players involved who deliberately refuse to get involved" I'd never have to buy my own beer again.  This is the RPG version of the two year old who just learned the word "NO" and proceeds to say "NO!" to everything, and even more tedious if the person doing it is older than two.  It's like asking "Want to go out to eat?" "Sure." And then the person who said "sure" proceeds to shoot down every suggested restaurant within forty miles.

If I could speak to the "girlfriend" here I'd tell her "After the second time somebody refuses to play, you stop and say 'if you don't want to play why are you here?' "

And I remember how an old geezer once told me on another forum that the way to resolve the problem with a player who refuses to engage is to talk with the player in question like adults;).

That's what I'm doing, I'm talking to the OP like an adult, because his GM is not experienced enough to know this. The question is, what are the rest of you doing, apart from bitching?

Quote from: AsenRG;923786That's what I'm doing, I'm talking to the OP like an adult, because his GM is not experienced enough to know this. The question is, what are the rest of you doing, apart from bitching?

Patting ourselves on the back for identifying a troll so quickly, mostly.

Quote from: AsenRG;923786That's what I'm doing, I'm talking to the OP like an adult, because his GM is not experienced enough to know this. The question is, what are the rest of you doing, apart from bitching?

You said you don't care if he's a troll or not.  That's not having an adult conversation, because you literally don't care if someone is on the other end.  You're typing for the sake of typing, a theoretical exercise because you have nothing else better to do.  All you're accomplishing is being an outlier (which you appear to derive satisfaction from) and getting to take some passive-aggressive shots at the storygame bias of this site (again deriving satisfaction from) all the while sitting up on the high horse for being tolerant of a Troll Job.

Masturbation shoud be reward enough, you don't need Brownie points from the rest of the site.

Late to the party...

To the OP: So your “girlfriend” figured out that you are a gay guy who is still deeply, deeply in the closet. She wants to let you know it is OK for you to come out to her and thought an RPG would be a safer way for you to do that. Apparently she was wrong.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;923154But I vote 6+2 HD, green skin, AC4, regenerates 3 points per turn.

Seriously? Dude I've haven't played OD&D in decades and I know a troll has 6+3 HD. For shame.

What kind of a man won't take one up the Keister for the woman he loves?

Quote from: Bren;923808Seriously? Dude I've haven't played OD&D in decades and I know a troll has 6+3 HD. For shame.

Guess now he owes you 4 beers?

Quote from: CRKrueger;923810Guess now he owes you 4 beers?

Sometimes you really do get me.


Though I was thinking +3 Beers.

Quote from: TristramEvans;923787Patting ourselves on the back for identifying a troll so quickly, mostly.

Is that what they call it these days:)? I'm always behind the slang!

Quote from: CRKrueger;923801You said you don't care if he's a troll or not.  That's not having an adult conversation, because you literally don't care if someone is on the other end.  You're typing for the sake of typing, a theoretical exercise because you have nothing else better to do.

That's right. And because I had nothing better to do, I elected to have an adult conversation with someone who might or might not be a troll. It only becomes a theoretical exercise if he is, but my reading of the situation says that's not the case.

QuoteAll you're accomplishing is being an outlier (which you appear to derive satisfaction from)

Don't mistake the icing for the cake, young grasshopper;).

Quoteand getting to take some passive-aggressive shots at the storygame bias of this site (again deriving satisfaction from)

You sure you don't mean an anti-storygame bias:p?

Man, what's up with this thread? Bren caught Gronan in a mistake about the HD of trolls. I get you mistaking storygames and anti-storygame sentiments. That's, like, two colossi stumbling in the same thread:D!

Also, no, I'm not taking any shots at it. I'm notifying someone with three posts to his name that this such bias exists.

Quoteall the while sitting up on the high horse for being tolerant of a Troll Job.

What high horse? I'm giving him the benefit of doubt. That at least has the chance of being useful - while snickering, bitching and patting yourself on the back doesn't have any such chances.
To each his own.

QuoteMasturbation shoud be reward enough, you don't need Brownie points from the rest of the site.

Don't judge others by yourself - I prefer to perform such activities with partners;)!
But you're right - when it comes to sex, I don't need anything from the rest of the users of this site. In fact, I'd be outraged if I so much as think about any of you:D!

Quote from: Bren;923808Seriously? Dude I've haven't played OD&D in decades and I know a troll has 6+3 HD. For shame.

Well I'll be a son of a bitch.

What's a +3 beer?

Quote from: AsenRG;923786And I remember how an old geezer once told me on another forum that the way to resolve the problem with a player who refuses to engage is to talk with the player in question like adults;).

That's what I'm doing, I'm talking to the OP like an adult, because his GM is not experienced enough to know this. The question is, what are the rest of you doing, apart from bitching?

Trying to find out if he's a troll or a total social basket case, because frankly the initial post is utterly not credible.  Twelve year olds have better social skills than that, and most women I know would have said "fuck it" after the second or third time.  Seriously, the referee tells you you meet an old friend and you get a grenade ready?  The correct answer to that is "What the fuck is WRONG with you."

I bluntly refuse to believe this is for real, so, like the other people here who share my opinion, I'm tormenting the troll for my own sadistic amusement.

Quote from: AsenRG;923833In fact, I'd be outraged if I so much as think about any of you:D!

Next time you're about to orgasm you will think of me waving my fat old hairy ass at you and murmuring seductively "You KNOW you want some of this, sailor boy."  And such is the power of suggestion that you will be unable to keep that thought out of your mind.

You're welcome.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;923887Trying to find out if he's a troll or a total social basket case, because frankly the initial post is utterly not credible.  Twelve year olds have better social skills than that, and most women I know would have said "fuck it" after the second or third time.  Seriously, the referee tells you you meet an old friend and you get a grenade ready?  The correct answer to that is "What the fuck is WRONG with you."

I bluntly refuse to believe this is for real, so, like the other people here who share my opinion, I'm tormenting the troll for my own sadistic amusement.

I've had players in their 20ies react this way in my sessions, except he prepared a sword, so no, it's far from impossible:).
(Of course, I just had the friend notice it and asking the PC has crossed the wrong kind of people lately, but it's not a thread about solutions to the problem of overcautious players that avoid human interaction).

And no, such players aren't necessarily total social retards, but their previous experience was influencing that behaviour;).

Well, in my family and friends, 'what the fuck is WRONG with you' is an acceptable way to speak to one another, so it counts as "discuss your expectations."

Quote from: AsenRG;923786And I remember how an old geezer once told me on another forum that the way to resolve the problem with a player who refuses to engage is to talk with the player in question like adults;).

That's what I'm doing, I'm talking to the OP like an adult, because his GM is not experienced enough to know this. The question is, what are the rest of you doing, apart from bitching?

I don't know about everyone else, but I was identifying obvious douche baggery when I see it.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;923885Well I'll be a son of a bitch.

What's a +3 beer?

+3 Vorpal Beer=you end up in a shotgun wedding.

If this is a troll, then we really need more trolls like this.

Quote from: abcd_z;923147She suggests that I might need to put points into video game skill, then places my character in the Dune setting and flat-out tells me that my character's goal is to, and I quote, "ride the worm".

She meant the Shai-hulud, but I have a dirty mind and was not okay with riding a gigantic phallic creature. Also, she made it fairly obvious that she was trying to pull a twist ("you were in a VR world all along!"), but she did this by trying to withhold knowledge that my character would have known. I pushed back and finally got her to admit that this was a VR game, but that my character still felt a strong urge to "ride the worm".

Even after I made a boatload of double-entendres about this she still didn't understand why I might not want to do this. My character shuts down the VR game. Okay, I'm in an arcade, with a cute girl who wanted to see me ride the worm. Apparently my character wanted to impress her (GM's words, not mine). I make several more double-entendres about the female NPC being a yaoi fangirl, then left.

Seriously this is comedy gold and/or socially relevant commentary.

Quote from: abcd_z;923147she starts by making an hobo NPC with several Moves, including "swindle money". We run a mock encounter that starts with him approaching me for spare change. I immediately get as far away from him as possible.

She decides to have him show up again in the direction that I run, and I think, "if nothing else, this is turning into a decent horror RPG." Several iterations of the same hobo appear. I jump up and over the one blocking me, kneeing him in the face in the process, and make it to the main road.

Quote from: abcd_z;923147Now I'm on the bus, and the hobo appears in the seat next to me, saying, "you won't get away so easily." I, the player, want to punch the hobo NPC in the face, but I don't interrupt the GM and suddenly I'm back in town.

Quote from: abcd_z;923147So. Apparently I'm a murderhobo

I mean come on, COME ON!

Quote from: Doom;923677But what happens if you really want to have a girlfriend?

To me it just reads like the standard (over) reaction some have to plot hooks. The sort of reactions factions in the GNS/Storygamer/Swine/whatever have been trying to drill into players heads. Its also how a few hexcrawler/freeform players react to anything resembling a plot or plot hooks.

Combine that with a new DM who is coming across as a little (or alot) railroady initially. Stuff that would get anyone else lambasted here for being such a horrible rotten DM.

But oh yeah. Tits... Free pass... got it.

(To be fair though... Yeah parts of the OP do look more than a little suspicious. But unfortunately. Seen worse reactions... sooo...)

So instead heres some basic advice to the DM.

Toss out more plot hooks. This way you dont get potential stonewalls were the players just wont bite at all or are reticent to do so.

And some advice to the OP/player.

Sometimes what looks like a plot hook is just the opening introduction and after that things broaden from there. Othertimes its yeah, a railroad.

Dont treat everything as a threat or plot hook waiting to entrap you. Sometimes the NPCs are talking to you just because you are there and thats what people do.

Trust the DM and see where things go. If its really not going right THEN start resisting. Or just pause and say "Hey. This doesnt feel right." and discuss the issues.

Is he a troll?  Maybe.  Don't care.

The way I see it, if he's a troll, and I respond with advice, he maybe gets a chuckle out of it, and I lose a few minutes of typing, that maybe someone else might see and go "hey, good advice" anyway.

If he's not a troll, and I respond as if he is, then I'm just shitting on someone.

So, for my personal view, the choices are obvious - either don't respond, or respond with actual advice.

Quote from: Omega;923915To me it just reads like the standard (over) reaction some have to plot hooks. The sort of reactions factions in the GNS/Storygamer/Swine/whatever have been trying to drill into players heads. Its also how a few hexcrawler/freeform players react to anything resembling a plot or plot hooks.
.

I am not a fan of obvious plot hooks, but my feeling is a player reacting like this, just ruins it for all involved. It might be a bad GM, but even a bad GM is usually at least trying to entertain and give everyone a good time. Stuff like this is just disruptive and annoying. Still think it is a troll though.

If someone is getting annoyed by obvious plot hooks, I'd rather than just say so, let everyone decide if they want to take another approach and move on with playing.

Quote from: robiswrong;923918...

So, for my personal view, the choices are obvious - either don't respond, or respond with actual advice.

If we don't respond to obvious trolling with heckling, humor, admonishments and satire we ARE NOT DOING OUR JOBS. Next thing you know, our jobs will be outsourced. This is survival of the surliest sir. SURVIVAL.

Quote from: cranebump;923905I don't know about everyone else, but I was identifying obvious douche baggery when I see it.

This.

The OPs post is demonstrating shitty behavior as a player to the person who is gamemastering and I feel no inclination to reward that.
The OPs post is demonstrating shitty behavior to the person he is dating and I feel no inclination to reward that.

Right.  He was told enough times on the first page that he reacted like a dick.  

He was asking for help when he posted.  

I don't really see the point on the 9th page of telling him he's a dick again.  

Actually all the people calling him a dick and a troll are reacting exactly the same to the OP as he was to the GM.  In stead of helping him out or engaging with the tread you stun grenade him and call him a troll.

Quote from: Headless;923957He was asking for help when he posted.

That assumes that it was a legitimate request for help rather than an attempt by a troll to stir shit up.  Why are you so sure of this?

Cause I'm not an ass hole.  Well at least not full time.  

Draw your matrix. Troll not troll on one side. Treated like a troll, treated like a human being on the other.  Which of your actions has the best possible out come, which the worst?

Seriously are there points for calling troll the fastest?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;923885What's a +3 beer?

Obviously it's +1 better than a +2 beer, though on careful inspection my original meaning should now be clear.

That's just an exercise in confirming your bias.  It's trivially easy to write that so that the best outcome will be whatever the hell I want it to be.

I haven't been around here for all that long but this sort of leeriness about troll doesn't come from nowhere.  It develops in communities that have had persistent problems with trolls for a significant period of time.  People have cited several reasons why they think this guy is a troll.  You haven't responded to any of them.  I doubt you have even considered them at all.  The truth is that this is just an excuse to get up on your high horse and call people assholes because of your personal animosity toward them.  You are just indulging yourself.

I don't know if this guy is a troll or not but I'm also unsure about what advice to give him and his girlfriend.  My thoughts are this

To the girlfriend: The one thing that a player really controls is their character.  If you are about to make a statement that starts with something like "Your character wants to do X" or "Your character does Y". stop.  What the player's character wants to do or does is up to the player.  You present the situation.  They decide what their characters wants to do or does.  Here is what is happening.  What does your character do?  

To OP: She would probably have an easier time GMing if you stopped actively sabotaging her attempts to do so.  Work with her, not against her.  If you have concerns, talk to her about them.

Quote from: Headless;923957Actually all the people calling him a dick and a troll are reacting exactly the same to the OP as he was to the GM.

The false equivalence there makes me giggle.

Something Headless wrote really stuck with me:  

Quote from: Headless;923573I've run a couple of very successful completely free form 1 or 2 player games.  I always start by asking the players what setting they wanted and what objective they wanted.  Then we refine that a bit.  Then I ask them who they are, we refine a bit.  Then I give them an intro.  "This is who you are, this is who you work for, this is what happening in the world/what's important to you.  This is what you are being asked to do right now. Any questions?"

I realized that I couldn't answer those two questions, "What setting do I want?" and "What objective do I want?"  It was like a big blank spot in my mind.  Even now I struggle to answer it.

So I tried something that's worked for me in the past: cutting the problem into smaller, more manageable parts.  I asked my GF to run a quick session for me, no more than 5 minutes, maybe two skill challenges.  For this, at least, I was able to define myself as a thief stealing a large ruby from a guarded room.

She ran the game, I convinced the guard I was a janitor, and I walked off with the gem.  

It's not much.  In fact, it's almost nothing.  But you'd be surprised how tiny actions, repeated often enough, can snowball into a much larger change of habits.

So, you logged onto an RPG website and expect us to believe you have absolutely no experience with role playing, despite a strong familiarity with jargon?  And she gave you a setting and an objective, and you shat on them.  Repeatedly.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;923995So, you logged onto an RPG website and expect us to believe you have absolutely no experience with role playing, despite a strong familiarity with jargon?

I...what?  I have quite a bit of experience with roleplaying, just mostly as a GM.  I have trouble wrapping my head around most game systems, and everybody else wants to run their familiar rule system (usually D&D), so if I want to be involved in an RPG I pretty much have to GM.

Quote from: abcd_z;923996I...what?  I have quite a bit of experience with roleplaying, just mostly as a GM.  I have trouble wrapping my head around most game systems, and everybody else wants to run their familiar rule system (usually D&D), so if I want to be involved in an RPG I pretty much have to GM.

He's still responding to your opening post. As are a few others. SOP here. You'll get used to it.

Explain what you mean and sooner or later a few will actually read the later posts. The rest will keep kicking you because of the original post for a few months. Under any other circumstance more than a few would be howling for the DMs head. But they want to get laid so they'll side with the tits instead on the off chance she dumps you and they can get lucky. aheh.

I exaggerate. But probably not by much. :cool:

But as noted and other have noted too. One on one freeforms can have slightly different dynamics depending on if its being played as a straight up RPG or as a storytelling type play.

Quote from: yosemitemike;923978That's just an exercise in confirming your bias.  It's trivially easy to write that so that the best outcome will be whatever the hell I want it to be.

I haven't been around here for all that long but this sort of leeriness about troll doesn't come from nowhere.  It develops in communities that have had persistent problems with trolls for a significant period of time.

(snipped)

To the girlfriend: The one thing that a player really controls is their character.  If you are about to make a statement that starts with something like "Your character wants to do X" or "Your character does Y". stop.  What the player's character wants to do or does is up to the player.  You present the situation.  They decide what their characters wants to do or does.  Here is what is happening.  What does your character do?  

To OP: She would probably have an easier time GMing if you stopped actively sabotaging her attempts to do so.  Work with her, not against her.  If you have concerns, talk to her about them.

But that assumes I care what a troll might do. What can a troll do:)?
Stir a conversation? That's useful.
Get a raise out of me replying? I don't give a fuck;).

Quote from: abcd_z;923989Something Headless wrote really stuck with me:  



I realized that I couldn't answer those two questions, "What setting do I want?" and "What objective do I want?"  It was like a big blank spot in my mind.  Even now I struggle to answer it.

So I tried something that's worked for me in the past: cutting the problem into smaller, more manageable parts.  I asked my GF to run a quick session for me, no more than 5 minutes, maybe two skill challenges.  For this, at least, I was able to define myself as a thief stealing a large ruby from a guarded room.

She ran the game, I convinced the guard I was a janitor, and I walked off with the gem.  

It's not much.  In fact, it's almost nothing.  But you'd be surprised how tiny actions, repeated often enough, can snowball into a much larger change of habits.

That's a good start. Not exactly how I'd do it, but it's something. And who knows, it might be better than my approach.

Now look at your GMing experience. What do you want to run? Do you want to play the same thing?

Quote from: Omega;924010He's still responding to your opening post. As are a few others. SOP here. You'll get used to it.

Explain what you mean and sooner or later a few will actually read the later posts. The rest will keep kicking you because of the original post for a few months. Under any other circumstance more than a few would be howling for the DMs head. But they want to get laid so they'll side with the tits instead on the off chance she dumps you and they can get lucky. aheh.

I exaggerate. But probably not by much. :cool:

But as noted and other have noted too. One on one freeforms can have slightly different dynamics depending on if its being played as a straight up RPG or as a storytelling type play.

Omega, I assume you don't include me and Headless in those people that wanted to get laid?

Also, the differences in dynamics are quite large.

Quote from: abcd_z;923996I...what?  I have quite a bit of experience with roleplaying, just mostly as a GM.  I have trouble wrapping my head around most game systems, and everybody else wants to run their familiar rule system (usually D&D), so if I want to be involved in an RPG I pretty much have to GM.

To most people here, your behaviour was normal for a newbie, or for a player with bad experiences with GMs. Almost nobody can wrap his head around why you did what you did.
What were the games you ran like?

(Also, was there even a system in the game your GF was running?).

Quote from: Headless;923971Cause I'm not an ass hole.  Well at least not full time.  

Draw your matrix. Troll not troll on one side. Treated like a troll, treated like a human being on the other.  Which of your actions has the best possible out come, which the worst?

Seriously are there points for calling troll the fastest?

This is Therpgsite Headless. This isn't the Clubber Lang that I know and love. If he can't put up with people giving him a little hell because they think he is a troll, he won't be able to put up with 90% of the conversations...if he is a legitimate poster.

It's worth noting that we've has plenty of "legitimate posters" who are for all intents and purposes trolls, anyways. Just part of the adult swim.

Quote from: TristramEvans;924043It's worth noting that we've has plenty of "legitimate posters" who are for all intents and purposes trolls, anyways. Just part of the adult swim.

You're welcome

Quote from: Headless;923971Seriously are there points for calling troll the fastest?

This site has a history of people from other sites coming over here and trolling the fuck out of the place simply to mine quotes to post on other sites or to get people banned on other sites for "cross-forum drama".  It's like a RP server when the PvP servers are down, 1st level characters running naked all over the place spamming the chat channels and being as annoying as possible.  It's shits and giggles fun from worthless idiots, the price of a site with mostly free speech.  Your precious worm-fearer is still here and can still post, on purple his account would have vaporized 2 seconds after hitting Post.

There's no points for calling Troll, there's also no points for White Knighting a jackass.

Quote from: CRKrueger;924071This site has a history of people from other sites coming over here and trolling the fuck out of the place simply to mine quotes to post on other sites or to get people banned on other sites for "cross-forum drama".  It's like a RP server when the PvP servers are down, 1st level characters running naked all over the place spamming the chat channels and being as annoying as possible.  It's shits and giggles fun from worthless idiots, the price of a site with mostly free speech.  Your precious worm-fearer is still here and can still post, on purple his account would have vaporized 2 seconds after hitting Post.

There's no points for calling Troll, there's also no points for White Knighting a jackass.

It honestly hasn't been that bad either. If he is a troll, then I think we are justly a bit on the defensive due to places like SA. If he isn't a troll, the behavior he describes warrants a little shellacking. And based on that we gave him sound advice: If he wants a game group or a girlfriend, he shouldn't do that. That kind of behavior pretty much wastes everybody's time.

Quote from: TristramEvans;924043It's worth noting that we've has plenty of "legitimate posters" who are for all intents and purposes trolls, anyways. Just part of the adult swim.

If he ends up posting worthwhile stuff, I am sure people will be fine with him. But the OP and his eventual follow-up set off all kinds of red flags in the troll department. I'm still pretty convinced this is a troll-job.

Quote from: AsenRG;924024To most people here, your behaviour was normal for a newbie, or for a player with bad experiences with GMs. Almost nobody can wrap his head around why you did what you did.
What were the games you ran like?

The longest one I ran lasted for ~6 sessions with a rotating cast of players because of constant scheduling problems.  There were usually about 4-6 players at a time.  The setting was a multiverse with every conceivable setting connected to the others.  

Here are some quotes I posted elsewhere about the game:

QuoteMulti-genre Crossover Setting: Jedi, medieval rogues, cyberdeck hackers, space marines and anything else.

Inspiration:
I have a mental image of a dimly-lit tavern with neon lighting where an impeccably-dressed bartender serves food and drinks to characters of all classes and worlds of origin.
Aliens from Star Wars and Babylon Five nurse their bubbling drinks. In one corner of the room a Browncoat and a Street Samurai have just gotten into a shouting match. Slender Man and Anonymous are having a silent, yet animated, conversation with each other, and just in front of the exit a harried-looking man in a red jumpsuit is paralyzed with fear by the white carpeting.

Zones:
A Zone is an area thematically different from the others. This could be a galaxy, a plane, a planet, a city, or something else.
Any supernatural abilities or technology can be used in any Zone.
At some point in each Zone's history, it connected to at least one other Zone.
Examples of connections: Spaceships arrived warp portals opened up tears in the fabric of reality occurred Faerie Fog settled around a location A new discovery/technology/magic spell opened up new physical locations on the same planet or access to other planets or other planes.
In every case, the Zone is now connected to a larger reality.
Tourism's a big thing in some of these areas.
There's no one central hub, but there are several large hubs that one can access.

The Device:
I haven't given it a name yet, but the Device is a high-tech wristband with dedicated holodisplay It looks like something Apple would design. It records your location in 10-dimensional space (but not local space), and any time you enter a rift between zones it can, instead, take you to any other rift you've previously been to.
Of course, GMs who don't like this approach don't have to include the Device in their game. If you're using Guild rules you might include a pandimensional messageboard or social media site that connects different Guild adventurers.
Or not. Your call.

Adjacent Zones:
Just off of the top of my head, a string of connected zones might look like this:
Gothic horror (werewolves, vampires) -> Medieval fantasy -> Urban Fantasy -> Modern day -> Science Fiction
Another connection might be from Modern Day to Cyberpunk to transhuman. Or Science Fiction to Star Wars, and then from there to Roman Mythology by way of an ancient Jedi Temple. There are all sorts of connections, you just need to know which series of connections will take you where you ultimately want to go.
Adjacent Zones generally have similar themes, but this isn't always true. There's no reason you couldn't wander into the Faerie Fog in an Urban Fantasy Zone and wind up on a minor outpost planet in the Space Opera genre.

Conclusion:
Because of the kitchen-sink approach you might have in the same party (as mentioned in the thread title) a jedi, a medieval rogue, a cyberdeck hacker, and a space marine.
In the game I'm currently running, the players are a goat, a puritan monster hunter, a cyborg elf blood mage, and an economist-turned politician. It wasn't quite what I had in mind when I started the campaign, but my entire group is a little silly and I'm okay with that. :)
They started off in a medieval fantasy world and are now tracking an alchemist through a sci-fi zone so he can help the medieval revolutionaries overthrow corrupt royalty with a minimum of bloodshed. No idea where it'll go next but isn't that always the fun? :D

QuoteI used the Fudge on the Fly rules for character creation in my most recent game, and this is what the players came up with:
* A character that used his hardened blood as a weapon (explicitly Crow from the anime Deadland Wonderland)
* An Earth Mage Nekomimi
* An elven cyborg Blood Mage
* A wolf Fire Mage
* Philosoraptor wielding an uzi.
* A mimic from D&D
* The goat from Goat Simulator, complete with a Glitch skill. By the end of the campaign she became a plaid goat-dragon thingy. My group's a little weird. :)
* A Monster Hunter with a Puritan hat.
* A former dragon trapped in human form. She was eventually given a spell to allow her to retake dragon form.
* An accountant-turned-politician-turned-adventurer. Whatever you do, don't let him roll Persuasion. Or Brawling. Come to think of it, just don't let him roll at all. The Random Number Gods do not smile upon him. :P
Some of the characters were almost completely developed at character creation and other weren't even finished by the end of the campaign. Either way, we still had fun. :)

Quote from: AsenRG;924024(Also, was there even a system in the game your GF was running?).

For the current game we've been using Fudge for the chassis, using the lightest possible build, and stealing the Dungeon World GM Moves for combat.  I know it marks me as a possible swine (I've been doing some reading), but I really like the way DW handles combat initiative (that is, it doesn't.)

Quote from: abcd_z;924078The longest one I ran lasted for ~6 sessions with a rotating cast of players because of constant scheduling problems.  There were usually about 4-6 players at a time.  The setting was a multiverse with every conceivable setting connected to the others.

Well, sorry to break it to you, but you do count as a newbie compared to many people on that site. Which, funny enough, works in your favour.

QuoteHere are some quotes I posted elsewhere about the game:

Sounds like fun, especially the Philosoraptor. And I hope the Monster Hunter with a Puritan hat did have a cross and a rapier, and shaman connections:D!

QuoteFor the current game we've been using Fudge for the chassis, using the lightest possible build, and stealing the Dungeon World GM Moves for combat.  I know it marks me as a possible swine (I've been doing some reading), but I really like the way DW handles combat initiative (that is, it doesn't.)

Funny, but no, Fudge is actually considered much better than either Dungeon World or Fate, on this site.
Also, Tianxia has adopted the same approach to initiative as an optional rule;).

Quote from: AsenRG;924024To most people here, your behaviour was normal for a newbie, or for a player with bad experiences with GMs. Almost nobody can wrap his head around why you did what you did.
What were the games you ran like?

If it was normal for a newbie to most people here, wouldn't that mean most people COULD wrap their heads around it?

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;924076If he isn't a troll, the behavior he describes warrants a little shellacking. And based on that we gave him sound advice: If he wants a game group or a girlfriend, he shouldn't do that. That kind of behavior pretty much wastes everybody's time.

Exactly.

But as noted. The GM wasnt doing things great either. So it was kind of inevitable there would be a clash.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;924100If it was normal for a newbie to most people here, wouldn't that mean most people COULD wrap their heads around it?

No, because most people around here have long since forgotten what it is to play with newbies.
Or, even if they haven't forgotten, they haven't had a newbie from the latest generation.
For some reason, all of my examples of similar behavior are from the same age range, and already gamers. This is so consistent it makes me think it's the other games they had played that lead gamers in this age range to this attitude.

Quote from: Omega;924116Exactly.

But as noted. The GM wasnt doing things great either. So it was kind of inevitable there would be a clash.

Sure, she wasn't great, but she was mostly adequate, and she's a first-timer. At the same time, the OP considered himself more experienced, and we only learned later that his longest campaign was 6 sessions long.

At the heart of the matter for me is consideration of you meet folks where they are. If he's the experienced one, I would think expectations would be higher for him. Also think his goal would be to make the experience for her a positive one, since developing new GMs is a worthwhile pursuit. Instead, the OP went to bullshit land and built a turd palace. That doesn't teach anybody anything.

Quote from: Omega;924116But as noted. The GM wasnt doing things great either. So it was kind of inevitable there would be a clash.

But it was her first session I believe. I don't know I think having a crappy GM can be bad, but if a player starts acting like he did, my sympathies would almost immediately shift to the GM (who is at least trying to run a game----player doing that is just being an asshat). If he doesn't like what is being served, he can talk to the GM about it. When I see someone convey their displeasure of the game through their character, I find that really grating (whether I am a player or GM).

Everyone sucks the first time they do anything, even Michael Phelps would have drowned at the age of seven had someone not been there.

In this theoretical session which didn't happen:
The GM had a story in mind, something they thought would be cool, and tried to keep steering the PC to engage with the plot.  N00bGMing 101.

The player was completely metagaming the whole time and purposely blocking every attempt the GM made to engage.  Complete and total ShitPlayer behavior, not to mention just being a fucking idiot not to pick up on the VR within VR thing going on.

So someone who didn't really know what they were doing, but trying, vs. someone who is just plain being a dick.  Easy one to judge there.

What anyone sane, possessing a functioning frontal lobe, or not a Troll would have done: gone along with the new GM then had a talk later about railroading.

Right. But when you have someone coming from direction A, and someone from direction B. A little or alot of clashing may occur. Especially when one side adopts an adversarial attitude to the other side. Which is where the OP crashed hard.

So you have a new DM making some baser mistakes and you have a slightly more seasoned player for whatever reasons making some rather odd assumptions over it and things snowballed from there with the player resisting at every turn and the DM likely puzzled what the heck was wrong.

So again. Something as simple as pausing and asking whats up, get some clarification, would have probably helped defuse the tension.

Quote from: AsenRG;924160No, because most people around here have long since forgotten what it is to play with newbies.
Or, even if they haven't forgotten, they haven't had a newbie from the latest generation.

Ah, I see. Pretty much half my fun is playing with newbies so that's always a constant for me.

Quote from: Omega;924228Right. But when you have someone coming from direction A, and someone from direction B. A little or alot of clashing may occur. Especially when one side adopts an adversarial attitude to the other side. Which is where the OP crashed hard.

So you have a new DM making some baser mistakes and you have a slightly more seasoned player for whatever reasons making some rather odd assumptions over it and things snowballed from there with the player resisting at every turn and the DM likely puzzled what the heck was wrong.

So again. Something as simple as pausing and asking whats up, get some clarification, would have probably helped defuse the tension.

Especially since this was not some random pickup game at a convention, but supposedly his girlfriend, whom he could be assumed to have some knowledge of, and to possibly care about her.

Really, game or no game, he simply treated her like shit.  So either he's a troll or she should DHMFA immediately.

Quote from: CRKrueger;924176Everyone sucks the first time they do anything, even Michael Phelps would have drowned at the age of seven had someone not been there.

Hell, I can think of all the screwups I made the first year I was GMing and I cringe today ... and I didn't catch a fraction of the bullshit from my players that the poor GF seems to have had.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;924235Ah, I see. Pretty much half my fun is playing with newbies so that's always a constant for me.

And you still haven't had a player like the OP, but inspired by MMORPG gaming? You're either really lucky, or screening your future players, or I don't know what.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;924253Especially since this was not some random pickup game at a convention, but supposedly his girlfriend, whom he could be assumed to have some knowledge of, and to possibly care about her.

Really, game or no game, he simply treated her like shit.  So either he's a troll or she should DHMFA immediately.

I'd say he needs to apologize, but since she's obviously still talking to him, I assume that's done.

Quote from: AsenRG;924311And you still haven't had a player like the OP, but inspired by MMORPG gaming? You're either really lucky, or screening your future players, or I don't know what.

Where did you get the MMORPG gaming part from?

I do kind of screen since I play with my friends and then I teach them how to play. But I am familiar with that type of player. Just not in a while. I have one friend who delights in always trying to go off the rails, and I just run with it. (Though that's a 1 on 1 game.)

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;924444Where did you get the MMORPG gaming part from?

Personal experience:).

QuoteI do kind of screen since I play with my friends and then I teach them how to play. But I am familiar with that type of player. Just not in a while.

Well, then I guess you can confirm such players exist, no matter how many people doubt that.

QuoteI have one friend who delights in always trying to go off the rails, and I just run with it. (Though that's a 1 on 1 game.)

That doesn't sound as quite the same;).

I come back to my First Law of Gaming: Players Always Lie.

One of the reasons I don't bother with Sit Down and Have An Adult Conversation with Your Players about What They Want is that players don't know what they want, but often know what they're supposed to want, so they lie. And then at the table they go and do what it is they want to do, which isn't what you prepped for because you assumed they weren't going to lie.

So, abcd_z: you owe it to yourself and your girlfriend not to lie.  You've alluded to some emotional issues that may be affecting your ability to engage with a fictional situation where you're not in control.  A RPG isn't the place to work out those issues.  You've said that the longest game you've run is six sessions, and you've described a premise that is, honestly, inchoate.  You've mentioned that you're using a home brew system that hacks in moves from PbtA games.

All of this adds up to a lot of ambiguity, which means a lot of opportunity for misunderstanding and potential hurt feelings.  Allow me to suggest that you may have better luck picking a simple, well-defined system with a clear, unambiguous play structure and  running some sessions of that.  There are some good PbtA hacks that apply - I'm thinking Monster of the Week.