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Has anyone got this rule-set? Has anyone done anything with it?

RPGPundit

Do you mean the new 3E rulebook?

I gave HardNova and Iron Gauntlets, which use the Genre Division rules, I believe. They're very solid and straightforward, IMO, and character creation is fast, painless, and clear.

My only complaint is that the number of "gimmicks" might result in some eventual sameness among PCs if you played a whole shit-ton of Genre Division, but honestly this is a very minor thing, and I probably only notice it at all because I generally play GURPS with its million billion approaches to character creation.

8/10 from me for HardNova and Iron Gauntlets.

I have GD3e, I like it a lot. It's more of a tool-set than a complete game, although it comes with a complete game which uses the tool-set(Unbidden & Forsaken) which is pretty awesome. It's a good median between BESM and Mongoose Traveller in complexity

I like the 'pursuits' system, which basically allows you to be as detailed or not detailed as you like. For example: You could have a 'detective' pursuit covering all things related to detective work...or you could break it down into Observation, Forensics, Hunches, etc. etc. Pursuits can also leaves things open for creating more thematic games, some characters could have pursuits of 'evil' or 'white' giving them bonuses to their rolls when pursuing those things.

Another key feature are the 'health' trakcs. It has a cool system where you can use a health like system to track anything from Sanity, Health, Mana, Consciousness, Spiritual Balance etc. It's a really elegant a simple system that can be applied to a broad range of subject. Anything that is really important in a game can be converted into a health track.

It's also 99% compatible with GDi and Iron Gauntlets. So if you wanted to convert IG or any of the GD/GDi games to a 2d6 roll over system it would require little or no effort.

There's a lot of great things about the system, and I used it to make a Persona 3 conversion. It's was super easy to play, and my players enjoyed it. I'm not sure how suitable it would be for long term play (as I used it strictly for a single short series), but it ran incredibly smooth. It gets my recommendation.

I've used Coyote Trail as my go-to western RPG. I like it a lot.

I have only one real complaint about the GD system, which is unfortunately one that GD3 apparently did not address and that is the condition of Fitness being the "uber" stat.

I did mean GD3. Brett, what do you think about the Fitness-as-uber-stat question?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;331875I did mean GD3. Brett, what do you think about the Fitness-as-uber-stat question?

A valid point. If you're playing strictly as a fighting game, sure. But that's true of any game really. GD3's ability gimmicks can be used to refine fitness with strength, dexterity, endurance, etc. -- see the random tables. Plus, there is mention (I don't have the book in front of me right now, but it's early on in character creation) about how to adopt a different mindset about abilities.

For instance, while fitness represents physical prowess, so can creativity, influence, or reasoning. Let's say you pick up an alien gun and want to fire it. Defer to the reasoning ability to figure out how it works -- use that for the task to shoot it. Or, imagine you are on TV in a sports competition and want to do something special -- you use influence to pull off a cool stunt to impress the audience with your style. How about if you throw a punch at the last minute -- use creativity to show how the character can improvise on the spot -- his use of martial arts was creative rather than just going by the book.

So, in the rules, I suggest to be imaginative with abilities, rather than letting the game get stale by performing the same tasks over and over again. This could really be applied to any game. Take D&D, for example. You're in a dungeon and want to kill a multitude of skeletons. Well, I've seen games where the fighter just keeps swinging his sword with the same type of roll made each time. What do you think his uber-stat is? The two situations are no different.

The GM's job is to keep the game fresh. Switch it up. Make them think up new ways of doing things. In the end, though, the GM decides on what ability to use for the task. This is how I go about it and I try to encourage it whenever possible.

Quote from: PaladinCA;331766I have only one real complaint about the GD system, which is unfortunately one that GD3 apparently did not address and that is the condition of Fitness being the "uber" stat.

Hi PaladinCA,

I've written a few things for Precis and I don't get that at all.   For those who don't know, you've basically got five stats, Fitness, Awareness, Creativity, Reasoning, and Influence.  All of them have their place, but it depends on what kind of game you want to play.

If your game is all about combat, then Fitness is going to play a heavy role.  If your game involves any kind of magic or spiritual powers, Creativity is going to be essential.  If your game is about Machiavellian intrigue, however, Influence is going to be more important.

I've found with GD3, and most Precis games, there is a strong emphasis on roleplaying elements over strict 1 for 1 game balance.  So sure, being a writer with high Creativity might not help you in an Old West gunfight, but IMHO it falls up to the GM to make adventures that help highlight a character's strengths and weaknesses.  

I don't think that's any different than any other RPG.  In past iterations of D&D, for example, if you had a party made up of two 1st level wizard characters, you didn't send them through a standard module because of all the combat encounters--you'd have to modify it to fit the characters' skills and abilities.  

Anyway, just thought I'd chime in here.  I'm currently writing a version of the Stormrift setting for GD3, so I'd love to hear any thoughts or complaints about the system in general.  

Pete

EDIT:  You can also tweak almost any stat with gimmicks that raise or lower one aspect of the stat.  So, for Fitness if you wanted a character who was faster and more athletic than he is strong, you'd pick the Agile gimmick (multiple times, if needed) which gives a bonus to Fitness-related tasks involving athletics and balance.  If you wanted a character who was stronger than his normal Fitness you'd pick the Musclebound gimmick.  The Leader gimmick gives bonuses to Influence while the Follower gimmick gives penalties, because you might have someone who is charismatic, but subject to being pressured by his superiors.  Thinking on it, this might be more in line with what PaladinCA was asking

My perceptions come from my experiences with Coyote Trail (GD2?). We used it to play a quasi-historical western with no magic or supernatural components. Every single player, without my prompting, looked at the skills list and the attributes and focused on the Fitness based skills & stat.

Now my take could be subjective, since the players pretty much blew chunks when it came to non-combat or non-Fitness skill checks, but the players were thinking about wild west action when they designed their PCs.

I might be more bugged by the fact that Fitness covers so much ground. It is like D&D's STR, DEX, and CON rolled into one stat. I know Brett was trying to limit the number of stats (or at least I assume this was one of the design goals) but we have one physical stat and four mental ones. I've thought long and hard about this and have no solutions for it.

Brett's advice above is actually pretty good. It's just hard as a GM to frame physical activities as mental exercises, even though reality often does just that.

Again, I rather like the game system. The Fitness stat being king could be less of an issue with players that focus on other aspects of the game, but the gunfighters, lawmen, and ex-soldiers in my group were definitely focused on the physical stats and skills. I will readily agree that this experience could alter my perceptions, yet I still think it is a valid issue or concern about the system.

Don't take this the wrong way, but one thing really bugs me. The four other abilities are not mental. Awareness is sensory, creativity is spiritual/artistic, and influence is social/charismatic. Only reasoning is mental.

Maybe it's just me, but I see mental as actual cognitive thought. While the others may be a function of the brain, so is physical exertion to some degree. For instance, reflexes may be executed using a physical means, but it still stems from brain activity.

I'd like to see players stripped of choosing their own skills ability ratings, and see how creative they get when playing. I bet you'd see some interesting uses of the other abilities. ;)

ADDITION: Coyote Trail uses GDi, which is technically 2E.

Quote from: PaladinCA;332156Again, I rather like the game system. The Fitness stat being king could be less of an issue with players that focus on other aspects of the game, but the gunfighters, lawmen, and ex-soldiers in my group were definitely focused on the physical stats and skills. I will readily agree that this experience could alter my perceptions, yet I still think it is a valid issue or concern about the system.

%$&$$!!  I just wrote a long post that got hosed in transition.  I'll try to recap.

Basically, it sounds to me like you were running a one-shot.  Am I correct?  One-shots are shorter and rely more on high-flying action to keep everyone entertained.  In this case, yeah, fitness will probably be more important because people are basically looking for something to shoot or chase.  

Extended campaigns are a different story.  They tend to allow for a lot more character development interspersed between the action.  

So, the lawman you described might capture "Bloody" Bill Tucker and hold him the jail until the Federal Marshalls arrive.  However, that night when a mob of angry townsfolk arrive--mostly good people who have been wronged by Tucker--, does he arbitrarily shoot into the crowd or does he use his Influence + Intimidation to peacefully get them to back down.  

What about the girl one of the characters has been wooing who gets swept off her feet by the smooth-talking newcomer (who the characters happen to know is a really bad guy).  Does the character shoot the newcomer, does he use his Creativity + Music to woo the girl back (singing a song for her), or does he use his Awareness + Investigation to find clues that can expose him for the bad guy he is.  

What about the character who is lost in the wilderness and needs to use his Reasoning + Navigation to find his way back?  

These are off the top of my head, but they are pretty common themes in Old West adventures.  Again, in a one-shot, these things might not be as important, but in an extended campaign they have larger repercussions which means fitness is not as dominant of a stat.  

I really think though that it comes down to adventure design.  If you have Coyote Trail, you'll notice that I included plenty of non-combat skill uses in the adventures.  One of the adventures is basically an investigation where little or no combat can occur.  

Pete

I read GDi + GD3 cover to cover several times but did not play them, and stuck with fuzion. It didnt feel compelling enough to switch. different stats, same feel to me.

Welcome to theRPGsite, Cactus!

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;332362Welcome to theRPGsite, Cactus!

RPGPundit

Ah yes, welcome!

thanks guys. I lurk more and post little as everyone else's knowledge dwarfs mine. One thing I didn't like much about GD3 was stepping down in granularity to a D6 for your core stats. I didn't like the 'roll a 6, count it as 5 and add 1 to any other stat less than 5'. The whole health grades + lines + marks thing was not to my liking either (X marks = Y lines = Z grades = death/unconscious).

My pet peeve with Fuzion is the stun damage thing, and in GD3 they replicated that with having grades of Fatigue and Injury.

I dont like the gimmicks thing either, its like extra bookkeeping but thankfully they appear optional.

As a system its like a lot of others, at its core its a stat+skill+dice v difficulty type deal.

I think the hole mark/grade/line thing would be good to house rule into something else.

I did like that they tabled some monster ai into the system, roll two dice lookup a number to active a monsters random ability + gimmicks.

So it sounds to me like GD3 is best suited to a game with the following things:

1. A game with a fantasy element or some other kind of special powers that are based on non-fitness attributes besides combat.
2. A game with machiavellian or social elements.
3. A game oriented toward the long-term campaign.

Anything else on the list?

RPGPundit

Quote from: BloodyCactus;332320I read GDi + GD3 cover to cover several times but did not play them, and stuck with fuzion. It didnt feel compelling enough to switch. different stats, same feel to me.

Hey, welcome, dude! :)

Quote from: RPGPundit;332517So it sounds to me like GD3 is best suited to a game with the following things:

1. A game with a fantasy element or some other kind of special powers that are based on non-fitness attributes besides combat.
2. A game with machiavellian or social elements.
3. A game oriented toward the long-term campaign.

Anything else on the list?

RPGPundit

As mentioned above, I did run a series of one-shot spaghetti westerns so it probably would be better suited for long-term play. That way people would think more about the non-physical dimensions of play and how it will affect their PC over time. The old west can certainly involve situations that are non-physical.

I think two and three are the most important on your list up there.

Well, does anyone have specific game Setting Books that they would hope to see for GD3?

RPGPundit

I have the new GD, but haven't yet played it. It looks great to me, and I've run a lot of the old version games with no problems, so I wouldn't hesitate to try it. I've just been busy with other games.

-clash

Quote from: RPGPundit;332517So it sounds to me like GD3 is best suited to a game with the following things:

1. A game with a fantasy element or some other kind of special powers that are based on non-fitness attributes besides combat.
2. A game with machiavellian or social elements.
3. A game oriented toward the long-term campaign.

I don't think #1 would be as important if you had #3.  

I'm currently writing a GD3 version of the Stormrift setting.  It's post-apocalypse and combat-heavy by default so Fitness will likely be the go-to stat.  However, psionics also plays a major role in the setting and that's based on Awareness.  Reasoning is going to be needed if you plan to reverse-engineer and/or use any alien technology.  If you want to be the type of person who rallies people to fight against the bugs, then you're going to need Influence.  Creativity is used in jury-rigging and thinking outside the box---something that is needed in this setting because as a result of an alien attack, most common metals and metal alloys are corroding at an extremely fast rate and humanity is being forced to develop alternative methods to fight, communicate over long distances, travel, etc.  
 
In case anyone is interested, that is . . .

Pete