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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: PoppySeed45 on December 01, 2010, 03:22:38 PM

Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: PoppySeed45 on December 01, 2010, 03:22:38 PM
So, the companion thread.

It happens that a particular book can be full of poop, but another by the same author isn't (for example, Luke Crane seemed quite into himself the first few BW books, then backed off, then got quite good in Burning Empires and Mouse Guard. To me).

However, some authors are so full of themselves that you can read a line without tripping over them. And then online they act like asshats as well. And then in person you keep hearing how they make asshats out of paper mache and shit on them. For you, which ones?

For me: John Wick. On a thread on RPGnet, he proceeded to fit tooth and nail with everyone there who said they didn't like the tone, insinuated we didn't know how to tell his ridiculous posturing from his "writing style" and other such niceties. What a cockbag.

Close second goes to Ron Edwards. Never had a normal interaction with that guy (though he's less annoying than Wick, hands down. I can imagine at least talking to Ron in person; I can imagine fitting in the same room with John Wick's goddamned ego).
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Cole on December 01, 2010, 03:26:32 PM
My gut reaction was immediately "Mark Rein-Hagen."

It's getting to where I'm thinking "Mike Mearls? I'll pass."
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Doom on December 01, 2010, 03:35:50 PM
Raymond Feist had a computer game based on his books. In the game was also included interviews with the author, wherein I found him so pretentious about his work that I simply couldn't find myself playing the game more than a few minutes.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Koltar on December 01, 2010, 03:46:37 PM
Ron Edwards

Vinnie Baker

Monte Cook

Those three I avoid.


- Ed C.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Cole on December 01, 2010, 03:48:09 PM
Quote from: Koltar;421898Ron Edwards

Vinnie Baker

Monte Cook

Those three I avoid.


- Ed C.

Monte Cook seems like the odd man out among the three. Why do you object to his work in particular?
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: PaladinCA on December 01, 2010, 03:49:47 PM
Quote from: Cole;421900Monte Cook seems like the odd man out among the three. Why do you object to his work in particular?

He must have said something bad about GURPS or Star Trek once. :idunno:
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Seanchai on December 01, 2010, 04:08:52 PM
Naw. A game itself might put me off, but I wouldn't let an author ruin my potential enjoyment of his or her work.

Seanchai
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: danbuter on December 01, 2010, 04:15:43 PM
Ron Edwards. I tried Sorcerer, and it turned me off of anything else he's done.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Melan on December 01, 2010, 04:55:22 PM
Quote from: Doom;421893Raymond Feist had a computer game based on his books. In the game was also included interviews with the author, wherein I found him so pretentious about his work that I simply couldn't find myself playing the game more than a few minutes.
If that game was Betrayal at Krondor, you missed one of the best CRPGs of the mid 90s. Just sayin'.

Authors who turn me off? I can't stand Mark ReinDOTHagen's persona; in that respect, later editions of Vampire were a major improvement (not that they made me want to play the game, but they stopped me from wanting to stab its authors). Ron Edwards is borderline; I wouldn't buy anything from Matt Snyder if he counts as a designer. Still, I am usually not picky enough to dismiss a game just because of the author as a person - there are design attitudes that are an instant turnoff, but otherwise, a good game is a good game.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Cole on December 01, 2010, 05:04:36 PM
Quote from: Melan;421937If that game was Betrayal at Krondor, you missed one of the best CRPGs of the mid 90s. Just sayin'.

I never understood the hype; I thought it was clunky and bland. But I digress.

Quote from: Melan;421937I wouldn't buy anything from Matt Snyder if he counts as a designer.

Fair enough, good call.

Quote from: Melan;421937Still, I am usually not picky enough to dismiss a game just because of the author as a person - there are design attitudes that are an instant turnoff, but otherwise, a good game is a good game.

Yeah - that's how I was looking at it. I have nothing against Mike Mearls, the guy, but his track record with design and philosophy of design pretty much said "don't even bother."
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Spinachcat on December 01, 2010, 05:20:20 PM
The only thing an author can do to turn me off from his game is not writing a great game that is fun to play.   And if the game sucks, I don't care how good the writing may be.

But in general I prefer authors with a strong voice in their writing.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: GeekEclectic on December 01, 2010, 09:38:14 PM
Quote from: Cole;421900Monte Cook seems like the odd man out among the three. Why do you object to his work in particular?

I'm actually w/ Koltarr on this one, though probably for different reasons. When I hear "Monte Cook," I think of tons of D&D and d20 books that I saw of his back when my area used to have a gaming store. Since I don't like D&D, and that's all his name means to me, his name is enough to turn me off.

I'd probably say Mike Mearls for similar reason. Not only does his name scream D&D to me, but 4e D&D which from what I've seen is like 3.x with the parts I already found most boring cranked up to 11.

It's really a system thing rather than my disliking the authors or their writing styles. Just sometimes an author's name because nearly synonymous with a system in my mind, so, yeah.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Koltar on December 01, 2010, 10:07:28 PM
When an author or writer's name is above the title of the book as "John Smith's Big Boggly-woogly Book!" - then I know that John Smith's ego is getting too large or he no longer has an editor looking over his shoulder.

 Same goes for Monte Cook.

- Ed C.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Cole on December 01, 2010, 10:34:03 PM
Quote from: Koltar;422049When an author or writer's name is above the title of the book as "John Smith's Big Boggly-woogly Book!" - then I know that John Smith's ego is getting too large or he no longer has an editor looking over his shoulder.

 Same goes for Monte Cook.

- Ed C.

I think of it as marketing rather than ego.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Werekoala on December 01, 2010, 10:55:16 PM
Quote from: Cole;422061I think of it as marketing rather than ego.

RPG writers are supposed to toil away in complete obscurity for pennies a page instead of becoming a marketing ploy, donchaknowthat?
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Koltar on December 01, 2010, 11:00:21 PM
Quote from: Werekoala;422072RPG writers are supposed to toil away in complete obscurity for pennies a page instead of becoming a marketing ploy, donchaknowthat?

Not exactly - but I did get sick of seeing his name.


- Ed C.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Planet Algol on December 01, 2010, 11:54:16 PM
Quote from: Koltar;422076Not exactly - but I did get sick of seeing his name.


- Ed C.

Steve Jackson...
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Benoist on December 02, 2010, 12:02:11 AM
Quote from: Cole;422061I think of it as marketing rather than ego.
It's what it was for Monte. I've never asked the question directly, but it would have been foolish not to use the name after the success of the Book of Eldritch Might.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: GeekEclectic on December 02, 2010, 12:05:16 AM
Quote from: Planet Algol;422107Steve Jackson...

Ooooooo, burn! :teehee:
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Silverlion on December 02, 2010, 12:10:47 AM
Just so you know, my game Hearts & Souls says Tim Kirk's Hearts & Souls on the cover. I didn't design the cover, or even plan that. High Valor leaves my name off completely.

I like authors who are generally nice to their fans/purchaser's of their product, and generally doesn't belittle them.

If they do such things? I'm usually out.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: mhensley on December 02, 2010, 06:42:04 AM
Quote from: Planet Algol;422107Steve Jackson...

Has he actually written anything besides Munchkin in the last 20 years?
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: AnthonyRoberson on December 02, 2010, 08:28:09 AM
Bruce Baugh...
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: DKChannelBoredom on December 02, 2010, 08:42:56 AM
There's this rpgpundit-guy, I wouldn't touch anything he'd written with a 10-foot pole :)

Nah, I'm with Seanchai I wouldn't want to stop playing/reading something good just because the writer is a douche. Not in rpgs, not in "normal" literature.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: danbuter on December 02, 2010, 09:30:12 AM
Quote from: AnthonyRoberson;422207Bruce Baugh...

Color me interested. He did a great job with Adventure!.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: AnthonyRoberson on December 02, 2010, 09:57:28 AM
Quote from: danbuter;422227Color me interested. He did a great job with Adventure!.

I think he mostly did the initial concept on Adventure. His WoD work was pretentious crap.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: ColonelHardisson on December 02, 2010, 11:35:57 AM
Quote from: Planet Algol;422107Steve Jackson...

That has to be the most perfect T-Ball set-up and subsequent knock outta the park I've seen in a long time. Well done, sir.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: ColonelHardisson on December 02, 2010, 11:39:02 AM
Quote from: mhensley;422193Has he actually written anything besides Munchkin in the last 20 years?

Not that I know of, but that's either beside the point or completely on-point - his name is emblazoned on tons of stuff, including tons that he didn't even write. That could seem arrogant and egotistical to some, and is a perfect counterpoint to Koltar's trouncing of Monte Cook.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Doom on December 02, 2010, 11:58:04 AM
Yeah, Betrayal at Krondor....so bad with names (and so many games....).

Didn't play it enough to remember anything about it. I might have played it more than I think, now that I think about it, or maybe I'm just confusing it with one of a dozen other faceless games.

But I sure remember the interview with Feist, wow did he not come across well.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Ian Warner on December 02, 2010, 11:58:38 AM
I annoyed some complete twat when I quoted Grim's comment about using he because its gramatically correct and to mock the poltically correct bullshit of those who use she.

To be fair though someone who takes things like that seriously wouldn't like a spoof WoD anyway.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Koltar on December 02, 2010, 12:04:07 PM
Quote from: ColonelHardisson;422271Not that I know of, but that's either beside the point or completely on-point - his name is emblazoned on tons of stuff, including tons that he didn't even write. That could seem arrogant and egotistical to some, and is a perfect counterpoint to Koltar's trouncing of Monte Cook.

NOT a "counterpoint" if its the name of a company.

Of all the game designers I've met at conventions - Jackson was one of the least egotistical.  Heck, at the con he was so easygoing and friendly to new gamers that he probably made people even more loyal to SJ Games.

Ron Edwards I have met at a con (or two).  I'll never buy a game that he's designed or written.


- Ed C.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: RPGPundit on December 02, 2010, 07:11:06 PM
Baugh is a piece of shit. Everything he's ever written, likewise.

RPGPundit
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: DKChannelBoredom on December 03, 2010, 02:40:27 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;422515Baugh is a piece of shit. Everything he's ever written, likewise.

RPGPundit

c'mon, Pundit, you don't hate the index in Over the Edge 2nd Edition (http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showcreator&creatorid=1699). Fuck, you get credit for being an indexer!?!?
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: GRIM on December 03, 2010, 08:47:31 AM
GMS is getting there for me. I go back and forth on him since we share some personality traits and I like his 'no bullshit' uncompromising attitude. However, he seems to have bought heavily into the whole 'transmedia' wankery (remember multi-media anyone?) and seems to be closing himself off from any and all criticism or discussion, which isn't something that I think is healthy.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: DKChannelBoredom on December 03, 2010, 09:11:11 AM
Quote from: GRIM;422682GMS is getting there for me. I go back and forth on him since we share some personality traits and I like his 'no bullshit' uncompromising attitude. However, he seems to have bought heavily into the whole 'transmedia' wankery (remember multi-media anyone?) and seems to be closing himself off from any and all criticism or discussion, which isn't something that I think is healthy.

I can't quite figure out who GMS is?
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: ggroy on December 03, 2010, 09:13:15 AM
Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;422693I can't quite figure out who GMS is?

GM Skarka

http://gmskarka.livejournal.com/
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: DKChannelBoredom on December 03, 2010, 09:15:29 AM
Quote from: ggroy;422694GM Skarka

http://gmskarka.livejournal.com/

Thanx! Can't remember if I've actually heard of him before.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: RPGPundit on December 03, 2010, 12:23:32 PM
Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;422668c'mon, Pundit, you don't hate the index in Over the Edge 2nd Edition (http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showcreator&creatorid=1699). Fuck, you get credit for being an indexer!?!?

I don't own 2nd edition, I use 1st edition.  Now I know why.

RPGPundit
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Benoist on December 03, 2010, 12:32:50 PM
It's Gareth Michael Skarka for me. I will not willfully buy anything this guy designs.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: RPGPundit on December 03, 2010, 02:18:37 PM
I have to note something, however; if an author has a certain attitude, that never stops me from buying the game if its good.  I disagree with the fundamental premise of this thread.
That is, I wouldn't avoid buying a Vince Baker game because its Vince Baker; I would avoid buying a Vince Baker game because everything he produces is shit (and not a real RPG).

Likewise Bruce Baugh.  I can't stand the man himself, but if he were to make a game that was actually worthwhile, that'd be another story.

It just so happens that most people who are utter douchebags also produce crappy games; but there are exceptions.  For example, I like almost NOTHING about Steve Kenson, but the man is actually brilliant at producing systems.  True20 is genius. M&M fails at what its meant to do, but its mechanically very sound. ICONS is genius. So even though I revile all of his public opinions and personality, I would purchase his games.

I judge the man for the man, but the game for the game.

RPGPundit
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Benoist on December 03, 2010, 02:24:25 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;422800if an author has a certain attitude, that never stops me from buying the game if its good.
The opposite for me. I have enough games to give me entertainment for the rest of my life. Any game I buy at this point is a plus, not a requirement. I base my purchases on a number of factors, including of course the quality of the game itself, and whether I feel comfortable funding people I may like/dislike or not certainly is one of them.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Cole on December 03, 2010, 02:28:14 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;422800M&M fails at what its meant to do, but its mechanically very sound.

I take it you mean that it fails to emulate the comic-book supers genre. Since you say it's mechanically sound, do you think there are other genres it would work well for?
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Simlasa on December 03, 2010, 03:06:23 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;422800I judge the man for the man, but the game for the game.

RPGPundit
Well, you're a bigger man than me...
I'm chock-full of childish spite and if I see a game/book/movie by a guy who I believe to be a giant-sized-cock I'll avoid it no matter how much the subject tempts me.
Not that anyone is past redemption...
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Aos on December 03, 2010, 04:44:18 PM
Quote from: Simlasa;422821Not that anyone is past redemption...


You wound me.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Aos on December 03, 2010, 04:47:33 PM
Quote from: Koltar;422279NOT a "counterpoint" if its the name of a company.


- Ed C.

Wrong.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Benoist on December 03, 2010, 04:56:18 PM
Quote from: Koltar;422279Of all the game designers I've met at conventions - Jackson was one of the least egotistical.  Heck, at the con he was so easygoing and friendly to new gamers that he probably made people even more loyal to SJ Games.
Ok. Now in the interest of being fair, here: have you met Monte Cook?
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: DominikSchwager on December 03, 2010, 05:13:15 PM
Quote from: Koltar;422279NOT a "counterpoint" if its the name of a company.
Of course it is a counterpoint. Steve Jackson is obviously so full of himself that he even named his company after himself.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: PaladinCA on December 03, 2010, 06:00:45 PM
Quote from: DominikSchwager;422881Of course it is a counterpoint. Steve Jackson is obviously so full of himself that he even named his company after himself.

Good point.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: RPGPundit on December 03, 2010, 09:03:21 PM
Quote from: Cole;422806I take it you mean that it fails to emulate the comic-book supers genre. Since you say it's mechanically sound, do you think there are other genres it would work well for?

I would assume so, yes.

RPGPundit
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: Cole on December 03, 2010, 10:27:13 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;422921I would assume so, yes.

RPGPundit

Let me put it another way - what genres do you think it might work well for?
I've played with several people who are big M&M fans, especially of the mechanics, and having looked over the book casually, I didn't think it read like a very good fit for supers, either. I was just curious what you might consider using it for instead.
Title: Games where the Author themselves turned you off the game
Post by: RPGPundit on December 04, 2010, 10:30:35 AM
Quote from: Cole;422937Let me put it another way - what genres do you think it might work well for?
I've played with several people who are big M&M fans, especially of the mechanics, and having looked over the book casually, I didn't think it read like a very good fit for supers, either. I was just curious what you might consider using it for instead.

I honestly don't know. Modern stuff? stuff with powers but not meant to emulate comic book superheroes as a genre?

RPGPundit