What RPGs do you wish would develop a new edition, whether because the current edition is unsatisfying or could use a revival?
Amber Diceless would be my #1 vote. Not a "sort of Amber" thing but the actual Zelazny universe and the actual Wujcik mechanic. Take the contents of ADRP and Shadow knight, blend it all together, and divide it up into a Player's book and a GM's book. Maybe take the Kucharski artwork and get it colorized to give the book more pop. Give it some product support like a new Trump deck, map of Castle Amber, map of the Amberverse, that kind of thing.
NONE (Well probably none. Except for that one over there that needs it. But that doesnt count)
Just reprint whats allready there.
So sick of the edition treadmill and the five year plan.
The original Alternity. I'm sure that can be made into one book and just bring some stuff up to date.
Quote from: HorusArisen;982568The original Alternity. I'm sure that can be made into one book and just bring some stuff up to date.
I haven't looked at the beta/alpha of the new version. Is it much different?
RECON® (http://palladium-store.com/1001/product/600-The-Deluxe-Revised-RECON.html) Updated for modern Merc/PMC operations. Kevin has a manuscript for an update, named Warpath. But it will probably never see the light of day. Not to mention his micro managing ass probably would feel the need to completely rewrite (aka ruin) it, and screw the actual author out of their rightful credit.
Quote from: vivsavage;982589I haven't looked at the beta/alpha of the new version. Is it much different?
Unnecessarily enough from what I saw.
Quote from: vivsavage;982560What RPGs do you wish would develop a new edition, whether because the current edition is unsatisfying or could use a revival?
None, but there are many games I'd like to see back in print and widely available again.
Quote from: Omega;982565NONE (Well probably none. Except for that one over there that needs it. But that doesnt count)
Just reprint whats allready there.
So sick of the edition treadmill and the five year plan.
Fortunately I never got on that treadmill but I agree utterly and completely. The only games I ever bought more than one edition of were when I got 2nd edition AD&D (which I sold long ago), 2nd edition DC Heroes (which actually fixed and improved a few things), and 4th edition Pendragon (because I was curious about its allowing magic for PCs and it included material from many sourcebooks I never bought).
Call of Cthulhu. ;)
Quote from: K Peterson;982670Call of Cthulhu. ;)
:p:p:p
Quote from: K Peterson;982670Call of Cthulhu. ;)
It's not finished till it's in double digits :cool:
Quote from: Omega;982565NONE (Well probably none. Except for that one over there that needs it. But that doesnt count)
Just reprint whats allready there.
Quote from: Dumarest;982598None, but there are many games I'd like to see back in print and widely available again.
I also don't feel the need for new editions.
That said, new editions of most games don't bother me. The folks that work at game companies want to put food on the table or a new roof on their garage the same as the rest of us adults. I don't begrudge them their attempt at that. And if I own an older version, it doesn't stop working as just because a newer edition gets published. And some companies are able to publish new editions without totally overturning all their previous materials. Two companies that have done that well are West End Games and Chaosium. The three versions of Star Wars D6 are all good games and supplements and adventures written for one version are highly compatible with any other. For decades Chaosium's done the same thing for Call of Cthulhu with an extremely high degree of compatibility between supplements and adventures across multiple rule editions. Runequest and Pendragon also had pretty good compatibility across multiple editions.
Bren, are you aware your link for D6 Star Wars goes to the bashrpg web site? Was it supposed to go to a blog or something?
Quote from: Bren;982811I also don't feel the need for new editions.
That said, new editions of most games don't bother me. The folks that work at game companies want to put food on the table or a new roof on their garage the same as the rest of us adults. I don't begrudge them their attempt at that. And if I own an older version, it doesn't stop working as just because a newer edition gets published. And some companies are able to publish new editions without totally overturning all their previous materials. Two companies that have done that well are West End Games and Chaosium. The three versions of Star Wars D6 are all good games and supplements and adventures written for one version are highly compatible with any other. For decades Chaosium's done the same thing for Call of Cthulhu with an extremely high degree of compatibility between supplements and adventures across multiple rule editions. Runequest and Pendragon also had pretty good compatibility across multiple editions.
Oh, sure, I dont care if they make a new edition, I just find 95% are needless revisions and seldom actually improvements like DC Heroes 2nd edition where they even had designer notes explaining, "Well, this didn't work the way we intended and this was redundant so we fixed it this way and here's why ." I might argue that too many people think they can make a living writing RPGs, but that's their business, doesn't affect me at all. I mostly buy used old games I used to own or have always wanted to play; not much new stuff is to my taste or if it is, it's somewhere out there where I don't get exposed to it. I'd say that's half the reason I lurked on this forum for years before registering and posting anything, just to try to see what games were out in the wild and what peolle thought of them. Sometimes there is eveb a cogent, useful discussion or review. Plus I can rip off stuff from your blog and Black Vulmea's blog for Flashing Blades.
Personally I think AD&D needed no new editions, but if people buy them, of course they'll keep putting out "improvements." Same with Traveller, Call of Cthulhu, etc.
Quote from: K Peterson;982670Call of Cthulhu. ;)
I don't *mind* the new edition *that* much, but I agree some of it could have been handled more elegantly. I don't mind expendable Luck points, which are optional anyway, but I do not like the rules for Pushing a Skill Roll at all, and I have no need for such extensive Chase rules.
Quote from: Dumarest;982821Bren, are you aware your link for D6 Star Wars goes to the bashrpg web site? Was it supposed to go to a blog or something?
Oops. Thanks. I switched the link to a Star Wars D6 forum.
Quote from: 3rik;982844I don't *mind* the new edition *that* much, but I agree some of it could have been handled more elegantly. I don't mind expendable Luck points, which are optional anyway, but I do not like the rules for Pushing a Skill Roll at all, and I have no need for such extensive Chase rules.
Seems like these would be more suitable for a pulp action setting, which Call of Cthulhu really isn't at heart. But maybe there is a market for people wanting to be able to play something like The Shadow or Doc Savage with CoC rules. I've had campaigns drift that way and have run some pulp stuff with CoC rules as a change up from our usual 1920s and Gaslight CoC settings.
Quote from: 3rik;982844I don't *mind* the new edition *that* much, but I agree some of it could have been handled more elegantly. I don't mind expendable Luck points, which are optional anyway, but I do not like the rules for Pushing a Skill Roll at all, and I have no need for such extensive Chase rules.
Funny, the chase rules are a hot mess but easy to ignore. Luck Points though seem completely against the tone of the game to me. Pushing skill roll I have no use for in CoC either (it is fine in other games).
Quote from: Bren;982853Seems like these would be more suitable for a pulp action setting, which Call of Cthulhu really isn't at heart. But maybe there is a market for people wanting to be able to play something like The Shadow or Doc Savage with CoC rules. I've had campaigns drift that way and have run some pulp stuff with CoC rules as a change up from our usual 1920s and Gaslight CoC settings.
Note that the very first major CoC release after CoC 7th, and which had been awaited for years, was
Pulp Cthulhu
A new Marvel Super Heroes rpg would be fun.
Quote from: K Peterson;982670Call of Cthulhu. ;)
Surely we need another Runequest by another publisher.
Quote from: Voros;982867A new Marvel Super Heroes rpg would be fun.
I liked the cortex one in reading it but never got to play.
I'd like to see someone have another crack at In Nomine, without rushing it and being a bit more faithful to the original French version.
I'd like to see Stormbringer return as a part of a series of Multiverse-wide Eternal Champion games.
I'd like to see Toon updated with a full colour interior design.
I'd like to see Cyberpunk updated to 2077, as per the advert of the last five years......
Quote from: Voros;982867A new Marvel Super Heroes rpg would be fun.
There already is one (http://www.lulu.com/us/en/shop/blacky-the-blackball/faserip/paperback/product-22131161.html), in everything but name. Came out last year.
Quote from: Voros;982867A new Marvel Super Heroes rpg would be fun.
Which one? And what would you "improve" for the new edition?
Quote from: HorusArisen;982872I liked the cortex one in reading it but never got to play.
Lucky you...i was excited by the idea but in practice it was more like a dice game than an RPG to me.
Quote from: TrippyHippy;982889I'd like to see Stormbringer return as a part of a series of Multiverse-wide Eternal Champion games.
I'd like to see Toon updated with a full colour interior design.
I think KS for Stormbringer and Toon would both do very well amd I would be thrilled for both. I doubt Moorcock has much interest in granting the rights though and Costikyan is probably making too much serious cash in video games to be interested.
Quote from: Celestial;982896There already is one (http://www.lulu.com/us/en/shop/blacky-the-blackball/faserip/paperback/product-22131161.html), in everything but name. Came out last year.
Yeah I'm aware of that. I always preferred playing the actual comic book heroes for FASERIP. It is free on Drivethrurpg.
Quote from: Dumarest;982897Which one? And what would you "improve" for the new edition?
I'm fond of FASERIP but haven't played it in a long time and I'm unsure what I'd make of it today but do like a fair bit of the idea of their mechanics and would like to see that core maintained. As to what would you add to improve it and update as per the Marvel universe seems obvious. Not a big fan of most modern super hero comics but Morrison's X-Men would be a blast.
Quote from: Voros;982904I'm fond of FASERIP but haven't played it in a long time and I'm unsure what I'd make of it today but do like a fair bit of the idea of their mechanics and would like to see that core maintained. As to what would you add to improve it and update as per the Marvel universe seems obvious. Not a big fan of most modern super hero comics but Morrison's X-Men would be a blast.
Well, updating it to today's Marvel universe would not be an improvement in my book. But that doesn't need a new edition, that's just an "Official Handbook" supplement like they did with the original TSR edition anyway. What rules changes would you make?
Quote from: DocJones;982871Surely we need another Runequest by another publisher.
That gave me a chuckle.
Quote from: Dumarest;982906Well, updating it to today's Marvel universe would not be an improvement in my book. But that doesn't need a new edition, that's just an "Official Handbook" supplement like they did with the original TSR edition anyway. What rules changes would you make?
Yeah as I said not a huge fan of the direction of superhero comics since the 80s but there are exceptions. Matt Fraction's Hawkeye comic is excellent and I like Bendis' work on Daredevil.
Would seem like commercial suicide to issue an updated book for an OOP game. They would have to put out a new core ruleset.
In terms of what I would change I'd have to take FASERIP back to the table to see how it plays. I think the core attributes, approach to superpowers and the like worked well from what I remember but I'm not a fan of checking charts these days. I do like Karma points and I know some hated how it restricted them from being a half-assed Comedian character but I think it fits the moral universe of Marvel superhero comics well.
Perhaps a MAX version of the game would be cool but I also think it would just encourage the kind of 'badass' play that I find insufferable.
Buck Rogers XXVc, of course. Not that much needs to be changed really. Just get rid of THAC0 and replace it with ascending AC, and you're good. Although the setting could use a little bit of a touch-up. Smartwatches with two whole gigabytes of storage isn't exactly impressive today. :P
D20 Modern/Future, but that'll never happen.
Oh and HoL: Human Occupied Landfill.
Had that game stayed in print then The Forge may never have happened...
Quote from: Voros;982862Funny, the chase rules are a hot mess but easy to ignore. Luck Points though seem completely against the tone of the game to me. Pushing skill roll I have no use for in CoC either (it is fine in other games).
Any Luck Points you spend mean you literally run out of luck so your next Luck roll may not turn out all that favourable. Luck rolls have always been part of Call of Cthulhu. I think running out of Luck can fit the tone of the game. It's not necessarily more pulpy or cinematic if you will.
The thing with Pushing your skill roll is that if you fail at your second attempt - it is literally a second attempt at something and not a reroll - you're supposed to fail in the worst way possible, but in the RAW this *can* be failing forward. As a GM I like to decide for myself if making a second attempt makes sense and what happens if it fails. I don't need that rule, it feels forced. I'm also not keen on failing forward.
Quote from: Ronin;982591RECON® (http://palladium-store.com/1001/product/600-The-Deluxe-Revised-RECON.html) Updated for modern Merc/PMC operations. Kevin has a manuscript for an update, named Warpath. But it will probably never see the light of day. Not to mention his micro managing ass probably would feel the need to completely rewrite (aka ruin) it, and screw the actual author out of their rightful credit.
I'd like to see something closer to the original before Palladium got its hands on it. From a rules perspective many of the changes in revised make sense, and some were necessary to make it more of an RPG vs a minis game with personalities. The thing that really sets them apart though is the tone. The color text of the original was realistic in nature, in the Revised Recon it almost becomes camp and is full of action movie clichés. The Original Recon was Full Metal Jacket or Platoon in feel, the Revised was Rambo 2.
Like most things Palladium, the game would be best served by being done by somebody else...
Quote from: Bren;982853Seems like these would be more suitable for a pulp action setting, which Call of Cthulhu really isn't at heart.
If CoC7e had just been Pulp Cthulhu instead I'd have no complaints, I'd just ignore it... but most of those changes don't fit core CoC IMO.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;982864Note that the very first major CoC release after CoC 7th, and which had been awaited for years, was Pulp Cthulhu
So the additions make some sense in that context. Personally I think that putting pulp rules additions or options in a separate pulp supplement would be cleaner way of introducing such rules. That would be similar to the old Blood Brothers II supplement. It had scenarios designed to replicate various horror genre s and included some variant rules designed to replicate those genres, e.g. slasher films, silent movies, Mexican masked wrestlers, Spagehetti Western Horror, etc.
Quote from: TrippyHippy;982889I'd like to see Stormbringer return as a part of a series of Multiverse-wide Eternal Champion games.
There was a Hawkmoon boxed set that was supposed to complement Stormbringer. I never hear it mentioned anywhere so maybe I'm the only person who owns a copy.
I've heard of the Hawkmoon set, they discussed it on the Grognard Files podcast. Seems better known in the UK unsurprisingly.
I loved the Blood Brother supplements back in the day but haven't read them in a long, long while.
Quote from: Voros;982915Yeah as I said not a huge fan of the direction of superhero comics since the 80s but there are exceptions. Matt Fraction's Hawkeye comic is excellent and I like Bendis' work on Daredevil.
Would seem like commercial suicide to issue an updated book for an OOP game. They would have to put out a new core ruleset.
In terms of what I would change I'd have to take FASERIP back to the table to see how it plays. I think the core attributes, approach to superpowers and the like worked well from what I remember but I'm not a fan of checking charts these days. I do like Karma points and I know some hated how it restricted them from being a half-assed Comedian character but I think it fits the moral universe of Marvel superhero comics well.
Perhaps a MAX version of the game would be cool but I also think it would just encourage the kind of 'badass' play that I find insufferable.
Well, commercial suicide and RPGs have a hand-in-glove relationship.
I liked the Karma rules because they enforce genre conventions. Heroes were supposed to act like heroes; even Wolverine didn't just go around murdering people back then and the Punisher wasn't rated as a hero. Nowadays, it seems the writers think you need a few graphic murders to prove that COMICS AREN'T JUST FOR KIDS ANYMORE! Because actually writing mature scenarios and dilemmas would require effort, I assume, while amped-up sex and violence takes none.
RE: Eternal Champion series:
There is also an independently published Corum game:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]1264[/ATTACH]
Yeah I'd love to see a new edition of the "Michael Moorcock" Eternal Champion RPGs such as Hawkmoon, Elric, Corum etc.
I'd prefer to see more simplified RQ rules, rather than the later complicated and frankly awkward to run and play later editions of the RQ rules sets.
Alternatively, a reprint of the old Harkmoon, Stormbringer books would be cool with the later Corum RPG books integrated too.
I used to own the old Stormbringer and Hawkmoon boxed sets and they were great fun and quick to run.
I would totally buy into a new integrated "Eternal Champion" type simplified RQ Unisystem though. :)
Quote from: Dumarest;983047Nowadays, it seems the writers think you need a few graphic murders to prove that COMICS AREN'T JUST FOR KIDS ANYMORE! Because actually writing mature scenarios and dilemmas would require effort, I assume, while amped-up sex and violence takes none.
Yeah Alan Moore has expressed regret for what Watchmen has wrought. I think it is too bad few if any superhero comics are written for kids these days.
The MAX series is the 'adult' version of the Marvel universe. The only series I've read and liked was Garth Ennis' take on The Punisher.
Quote from: danskmacabre;983054Yeah I'd love to see a new edition of the "Michael Moorcock" Eternal Champion RPGs such as Hawkmoon, Elric, Corum etc.
I'd prefer to see more simplified RQ rules, rather than the later complicated and frankly awkward to run and play later editions of the RQ rules sets.
Alternatively, a reprint of the old Harkmoon, Stormbringer books would be cool with the later Corum RPG books integrated too.
I used to own the old Stormbringer and Hawkmoon boxed sets and they were great fun and quick to run.
I would totally buy into a new integrated "Eternal Champion" type simplified RQ Unisystem though. :)
The BRP system would be familiar, but I'm generally ambivalent about the system.
The thing is though that I am fairly sure that the original intent was to build up a series of games in this way - World of Darkness style - but Chaosium never got round to really developing/completing the project. I do note that Luther Arkwright (Mythras) encourages a similar style and tone, so maybe that could be a route.
Quote from: Voros;983056Yeah Alan Moore has expressed regret for what Watchmen has wrought. I think it is too bad few if any superhero comics are written for kids these days.
The MAX series is the 'adult' version of the Marvel universe. The only series I've read and liked was Garth Ennis' take on The Punisher.
Well, not his fault that untalented copycats missed the point and thought the "adult " part was nudity, sex, violence, and naughty words. It's unfortunate that it spilled over across nearly the entire industry. I don't know of any comics my kids can read aside from funny animals like Donald Duck or My Little Pony. DC did a "The Brave and the Bold" series based on a cartoon a little while back, but aside from that I've only given them some old Batman Adventures comics when it comes to super heroes.
For me, I'd willingly pay for new editions of:
- Witchcraft - Everything about it now screams 1990's Neopaganism. I'd love to see an update with modern sensibilities & production values.
- Truth & Justice - My favorite supers game. The differences between this game and the later Swashbucklers of the 7 Skies is remarkable. I'd love to see it streamlined with some of the thoughts & innovations that S7S brought to the table. Also, production values.
- Eclipse Phase - I think there actually was a new edition in the works, but I have no idea what became of it. The original is a great setting marred by an ugly, overly complex system.
- Artesia - Pretty much ditto what I said for Eclipse Phase.
Quote from: SavageSchemer;983077For me, I'd willingly pay for new editions of:
- Witchcraft - Everything about it now screams 1990's Neopaganism. I'd love to see an update with modern sensibilities & production values.
- Truth & Justice - My favorite supers game. The differences between this game and the later Swashbucklers of the 7 Skies is remarkable. I'd love to see it streamlined with some of the thoughts & innovations that S7S brought to the table. Also, production values.
- Eclipse Phase - I think there actually was a new edition in the works, but I have no idea what became of it. The original is a great setting marred by an ugly, overly complex system.
- Artesia - Pretty much ditto what I said for Eclipse Phase.
To be blunt, Witchcraft was always just a simplified and derivative version of the World of Darkness to me. Not sure about Truth & Justice or Artesia (not my thing), but Eclipse Phase has kickstarted a second edition with the aim for getting it released before the end of the year!
So I am looking forward to it by the end of the decade, as is usually on par for most Kick-starters these days....:/
Quote from: TrippyHippy;983062The BRP system would be familiar, but I'm generally ambivalent about the system.
Yeah it doesn't HAVE to be a BRP based system, it's just the one I know the best for Stormbringer etc..
Quote from: TrippyHippy;983062I do note that Luther Arkwright (Mythras) encourages a similar style and tone, so maybe that could be a route.
Ah yeah I vaguely remember Mythras. That was made by the same guy that made HARP with I.C.E.?
Mythras is sort of like HARP, but more streamlined or something I believe.
I wouldn't mind that, if it's still being made and supported. Assuming it moves quickly and is suitably gritty, which the early Stormbringer games were.
Quote from: SavageSchemer;983077Eclipse Phase - I think there actually was a new edition in the works, but I have no idea what became of it. The original is a great setting marred by an ugly, overly complex system.
Oh yeah I remember this.
I loved the setting and general ideas behind it, but yeah, the system was pretty complicated and I just didn't have the time or motivation enough to get into it.
Quote from: TrippyHippy;983079To be blunt, Witchcraft was always just a simplified and derivative version of the World of Darkness to me. :/
I don't disagree, but it was also hands-down the better game for me. Something about White Wolf everything really rubs me the wrong way.
Rifts.
Yes I know about Savage Rifts yet I think the core Palladium system with either a new edition. Or even better a streamlined, with copy and paste errors removed and a general polish has much potential imo
Star Trek (Icons or Coda version).
Not interested in the latest version and once again a versatile system which can use a new edition.
Gurps
Something less crunchy and complex. Possibly rules light or just a edition with a easier to use set of rules while actually trying to appeal to a new audience and not just the core group of players
Hero System
Same as Gurps
Quote from: danskmacabre;983085Yeah it doesn't HAVE to be a BRP based system, it's just the one I know the best for Stormbringer etc..
Ah yeah I vaguely remember Mythras. That was made by the same guy that made HARP with I.C.E.?
Mythras is sort of like HARP, but more streamlined or something I believe.
I wouldn't mind that, if it's still being made and supported. Assuming it moves quickly and is suitably gritty, which the early Stormbringer games were.
To me Stormbringer would have to BRP based, that is the fanbase for a Stormbringer game these days. A different system would just alienate those who care. You could certainly simplify or tweak it though. But isn't Stormbringer 1e and 2e a simplified BRP system with alternate magic already?
Quote from: Dumarest;982598None, but there are many games I'd like to see back in print and widely available again.
Nailed it in one.
Quote from: Dumarest;982898Lucky you...i was excited by the idea but in practice it was more like a dice game than an RPG to me.
Seriously. Play Yahtzee, then someone narrates a comic book page. Fuck that shit.
Quote from: danskmacabre;983085Yeah it doesn't HAVE to be a BRP based system, it's just the one I know the best for Stormbringer etc..
Ah yeah I vaguely remember Mythras. That was made by the same guy that made HARP with I.C.E.?
Mythras is sort of like HARP, but more streamlined or something I believe.
I wouldn't mind that, if it's still being made and supported. Assuming it moves quickly and is suitably gritty, which the early Stormbringer games were.
Mythras is very much still supported. I just bought a copy about a month ago from The Design Mechanism. And, yes, combat can be quite gritty. The book repeatedly stresses that looking for non-combat options is the safest way. As for playing quickly - probably not so much at first. But with practice it definitely sings.
Quote from: Voros;983089To me Stormbringer would have to BRP based, that is the fanbase for a Stormbringer game these days. A different system would just alienate those who care. You could certainly simplify or tweak it though. But isn't Stormbringer 1e and 2e a simplified BRP system with alternate magic already?
Yes, I'd imagine this would be a problem. There's a LOT of old BRP material for the various eternal champion RPGs about and it would certainly be a lot easier to reinvigorate the RPGs using BRP than anything else.
So that and probably the preference for BRP with the existing fanbase is important to consider.
So yeah, The Michael Moorcock stories have nearly been exclusively handled with the BRP system.
I believe there was a D20 conversion for Stormbringer some years back, but I don't think it was well received and I've not read it anyway.
Dragonquest, complete material from all three editions. Change the mechanics to a standard, based on the existing hodge podge, and reorganize some of the rules for better presentation, but otherwise leave the material as is. I'd pay for that even if it was in a format I don't normally enjoy. If it was done really well, I'd buy 10 copies and run a campaign in it.
Quote from: Voros;983089To me Stormbringer would have to BRP based, that is the fanbase for a Stormbringer game these days. A different system would just alienate those who care. You could certainly simplify or tweak it though. But isn't Stormbringer 1e and 2e a simplified BRP system with alternate magic already?
Well, the system has been changed quite substantially over the years actually. I'm not sure if Stormbringer actually predates BRP slightly - insofar that the BRP document may have been released a few months after 1st edition came out. For the record, the best written version was probably the Lawrence Whittaker one written for Mongoose RuneQuest - although the art design and layout had problems.
The magic could be made more freeform too.
Quote from: TrippyHippy;983114The magic could be made more freeform too.
Magic World was the last version of the Stormbringer/Elric rules... with Moorcock IP removed. One of its magic systems is somewhat freeform, used by a player in our current game... I think it's out of the magic expansion, not the corebook, and may have originated in one of the sourcebooks for the Elric RPG (The Bronze Grimoire?).
Quote from: danskmacabre;983085Yeah it doesn't HAVE to be a BRP based system, it's just the one I know the best for Stormbringer etc..
Ah yeah I vaguely remember Mythras. That was made by the same guy that made HARP with I.C.E.?
Mythras is sort of like HARP, but more streamlined or something I believe.
You're thinking of Novus. Mythras is the renamed, rewritten version of Runequest 6th Edition.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;983136You're thinking of Novus. Mythras is the renamed, rewritten version of Runequest 6th Edition.
ah yes you're right, I got them confused.
I didn't really like Mythras, MRQ2, Legend etc..
I WANTED to like them, but way too complicated, slow, finicky and generally a pain to run and play.
Quote from: Celestial;982917Buck Rogers XXVc, of course. Not that much needs to be changed really. Just get rid of THAC0 and replace it with ascending AC, and you're good. Although the setting could use a little bit of a touch-up. Smartwatches with two whole gigabytes of storage isn't exactly impressive today. :P
D20 Modern/Future, but that'll never happen.
Buck Rogers XXVc is a nice choice. I had so much fun with that and even used Battlesystem with it to run fleet battles. Good times. It was a surprisingly massive game and yes the rules were good enough to carry over, but I'd probably want to upgrade it anyway. I think ascending AC has a precedent in the fourth edition of Gamma World, which may predate XXVc and is still more or less AD&Dish. If it existed as an OSR with the serial numbers filed off, I might even go with something BECMI/RC based because of the Orcs of Thar Gazeteer, so you could have racial classes for Gennies. Though I kind of like the Labyrinth Lord/AEC route where classes and racial classes can coexist if you want them to, making AD&D like multiclassing a possibility and still keeping the game nearly the same mechanically. I'd probably keep the XXVc skill system though, that was pretty neat and I like percentage dice for skills because thiefs.
As for D20 Modern/Future, I'd like to see a couple of hardbound books using 5e mechanics, or at least one with some coverage of higher tech weapons and equipment. I mean the 5e DMG already has guns so it's not that much of a stretch. I know that Ultramodern5 exists because I have an autographed copy on my shelf, but I would like actual d20 Modern/Future for 5e.
Quote from: danskmacabre;983137ah yes you're right, I got them confused.
I didn't really like Mythras, MRQ2, Legend etc..
I WANTED to like them, but way too complicated, slow, finicky and generally a pain to run and play.
Mythras is an expanded version of RQ's system. Apparently there are light versions of RQ out there Baulderstone mentioned to me and I'm going to take a look. I was surprised how finicky RQ was as I came to it after CoC and Pendragon and was expecting something similarly light.
Quote from: Voros;983172Mythras is an expanded version of RQ's system. Apparently there are light versions of RQ out there Baulderstone mentioned to me and I'm going to take a look. I was surprised how finicky RQ was as I came to it after CoC and Pendragon and was expecting something similarly light.
Magic World is a fantasy version of the BRP rules similar in complexity to CoC. MW was essentially the Stormbringer / Elric rules minus the license specific elements, plus some additions to make it more useful for general fantasy use.
Chaosium has chosen to focus only on CoC and RQ but print copies of MW and its one supplement Advanced Sorcery are available until the stock runs out. Chaosium says they will continue to offer the game in pdf format.
Quote from: Simlasa;983134Magic World was the last version of the Stormbringer/Elric rules... with Moorcock IP removed. One of its magic systems is somewhat freeform, used by a player in our current game... I think it's out of the magic expansion, not the corebook, and may have originated in one of the sourcebooks for the Elric RPG (The Bronze Grimoire?).
Yep, the 'deep magic' was a thing, and it was similar in structure to that of Mage (to a degree, anyway). It would be that sort of thing - although my main memories with the original game was with summoning demons. Lots and lots of demons!
If there is one thing that'd be worth doing a BRP version again, it would be to finally get the system right. In all honestly, I have reservations about Call of Cthulhu 7E as well as the new RuneQuest (for different reasons). Stormbringer could strike the balance of a simple, elegant system and make me really like a Chaosium game full heartedly. Dunno if to will ever happen though.
Quote from: Dumarest;982898Lucky you...i was excited by the idea but in practice it was more like a dice game than an RPG to me.
Ah so probably a good job we never got around to playing it. I liked the idea it balanced out the different power levels.
I'm looking at this from a mechanics perspective first and foremost. Settings and fluff revisions are seldom of interest to me (although the companies often do progress the timeline of a setting when they do a mechanics update to a game).
Need is a strong word. As we see in this thread, some people are ok with decades old rules that still work for them...so... *shrug*
For myself, i'm glad we get some updated and streamlined games from time to time. I find much of the older stuff clunky, unintuitive and all over the place.
A game in serious need of a new edition is Exalted. 3e is just one big abomination. Maybe Paradox will see the potential in Exalted and takes it back from OPP soon to make something new out of it. Problem is, the things they do for the WoD stuff does not inspire confidence in their ability to write satisfying game system(s).
As always, I'd like to see Bill King's WASTE WORLD back (and finished, three more sourcebooks to go...). I'd update chargen maybe but the rest is still pretty great.
For the rest, every publisher should put his back catalogue in POD. No stocks, no hassle.
Actually, Ars Magica needs a new edition.
7th Sea - This game desperately needs a new edition. There is decent demand for the setting and swashbuckling fun, but the latest edition was a step back in nearly every way.
- They inexplicably got rid of the decent roll and keep system for a very boring dice pool story system, that's rather broken, and creates a ton more work for the GM than it resolves.
- Boring art without the panache and soul of the original B&W artwork.
- Poorly edited, inconsistent bland writing.
- Lots of SJW content.
I'm not sure where this one went off the rails, but there is little resemblance to everything that made the original awesome.
On another note
I often feel like new editions end up creating more problems and fracturing the playerbase, rather than bringing more players into the fold. Look at the fiasco that is Rolemaster. Then again, D&D 5e really brought a lot of people back together.
Quote from: HorusArisen;983212Ah so probably a good job we never got around to playing it. I liked the idea it balanced out the different power levels.
That was the other thing, it "balanced out" by basically making none of the powers or skills matter, all that mattered was how many dice you rolled. For me, every character felt the same and there was not enough difference to make Spider-Man's agility seem superior to Captain America's, for instance. It was more, "Roll a bunch of dice, then interpret them via comic book narration." But I'm more into traditional RPGs; there are web sites dedicated to Marvel Heroic so clearly it clicked for some people . I just remember being excited by the prospect of a new Marvel RPG and hoping it would be The One.
I would love to see a revision of the Mechanoids. The original trilogy and the single volume The Mechanoids game released later. The mechanics are very early Palladium and clunky and creaky, the writing and editing are uneven, the concepts are great though.
Also I would like to see a revised Star Frontiers the game had potential and still has an active fanbase. In my opinion it was crippled by being marketed to kids, and thus dumbed down in some parts, while not developed in others. A new version with solid consitent game mechanics could be a serious contender for Space Opera.
Quote from: Dumarest;983263That was the other thing, it "balanced out" by basically making none of the powers or skills matter, all that mattered was how many dice you rolled. For me, every character felt the same and there was not enough difference to make Spider-Man's agility seem superior to Captain America's, for instance. It was more, "Roll a bunch of dice, then interpret them via comic book narration." But I'm more into traditional RPGs; there are web sites dedicated to Marvel Heroic so clearly it clicked for some people . I just remember being excited by the prospect of a new Marvel RPG and hoping it would be The One.
No that doesn't sound like it would appeal. Shame the only supers game I've liked since the old tsr marvel one is Mutants and Masterminds and im not sure how much I love that.
Quote from: HorusArisen;983430No that doesn't sound like it would appeal. Shame the only supers game I've liked since the old tsr marvel one is Mutants and Masterminds and im not sure how much I love that.
I find myself wanting to like M&M (2nd edition) more than I actually do. It's sort of like Champions with simpler equations and a glossier presentation. But I just really don't like D&D mechanics very much and it seems to infect me when I look at M&M. Also it suffers from the same blandness as Hero, where it really doesn't matter what power you have so much as how many dice you roll, or how many levels of it you bought in M&M's case. It's not bad, but it just kind of sits there as my 2nd or 3rd or 4th choice for a super hero game. But still well ahead of Marvel Heroic.
Quote from: DavetheLost;983426Also I would like to see a revised Star Frontiers the game had potential and still has an active fanbase. In my opinion it was crippled by being marketed to kids, and thus dumbed down in some parts, while not developed in others. A new version with solid consitent game mechanics could be a serious contender for Space Opera.
What you might be looking for lies here (http://www.starfrontiersman.com/remastered.php).
Quote from: Voros;983172Mythras is an expanded version of RQ's system. Apparently there are light versions of RQ out there Baulderstone mentioned to me and I'm going to take a look. I was surprised how finicky RQ was as I came to it after CoC and Pendragon and was expecting something similarly light.
I quite liked MRQ2, Legend, Mythras at first. But the more I tried to play it and "Get it right", the more I realised I just didn't care for it anymore. It felt more like hard work than having fun.
It DOES feel very realistic and to me it's more of a combat simulator, as combat takes soooo long.
I get some ppl like it and it's more not to my taste than I think "It's a bad RPG"
Quote from: Toadmaster;983177Magic World is a fantasy version of the BRP rules similar in complexity to CoC. MW was essentially the Stormbringer / Elric rules minus the license specific elements, plus some additions to make it more useful for general fantasy use.
Chaosium has chosen to focus only on CoC and RQ but print copies of MW and its one supplement Advanced Sorcery are available until the stock runs out. Chaosium says they will continue to offer the game in pdf format.
I probably will get a print copy of this at some stage, even if just to have a read.
I'll probably get the advanced sorcery book too.
I still have a fair amount of old Stormbringer stuff from very early editions of Stormbringer, which upon reflection are the versions of Stormbringer and RQ in general I prefer.
Quote from: Omega;982565NONE (Well probably none. Except for that one over there that needs it. But that doesnt count)
Just reprint whats allready there.
So sick of the edition treadmill and the five year plan.
I'd like to see a re-print of Skyrealms of Jorune.
I think Cyberpunk could use a new edition too. One that goes back to the CP2020 roots.
Quote from: Ronin;983489What you might be looking for lies here (http://www.starfrontiersman.com/remastered.php).
Thank you.
Quote from: Voros;983172Mythras is an expanded version of RQ's system. Apparently there are light versions of RQ out there Baulderstone mentioned to me and I'm going to take a look. I was surprised how finicky RQ was as I came to it after CoC and Pendragon and was expecting something similarly light.
I prefer the new Open Quest to Mythras, to be honest. I found Mythras a bit too crunchy for my tastes but it's a good game.
D20 Modern/Future was especially frustrating because there was a really good idea there. You could almost see B/X style influences in it. It just couldn't shed Monte Cook's influence, and to me that's a real shame. Unfortunately I think WotC took away the wrong lessons from its failure in the market, so I think it unlikely they'll want to take another stab at it any time soon.
Quote from: SavageSchemer;983505D20 Modern/Future was especially frustrating because there was a really good idea there. You could almost see B/X style influences in it. It just couldn't shed Monte Cook's influence, and to me that's a real shame. Unfortunately I think WotC took away the wrong lessons from its failure in the market, so I think it unlikely they'll want to take another stab at it any time soon.
I'm curious, where do you think d20 Modern should have gone?
Quote from: Dumarest;983477I find myself wanting to like M&M (2nd edition) more than I actually do. It's sort of like Champions with simpler equations and a glossier presentation. But I just really don't like D&D mechanics very much and it seems to infect me when I look at M&M. Also it suffers from the same blandness as Hero, where it really doesn't matter what power you have so much as how many dice you roll, or how many levels of it you bought in M&M's case. It's not bad, but it just kind of sits there as my 2nd or 3rd or 4th choice for a super hero game. But still well ahead of Marvel Heroic.
Yeah it's the d20 system that really puts me off running it. I really don't need D&D in all my games.
Maybe it's me. As much as I think I want a superhero game maybe I subconsciously don't lol
Nah one day there'll be a good one.
Quote from: Dumarest;983477I find myself wanting to like M&M (2nd edition) more than I actually do. It's sort of like Champions with simpler equations and a glossier presentation. But I just really don't like D&D mechanics very much and it seems to infect me when I look at M&M. Also it suffers from the same blandness as Hero, where it really doesn't matter what power you have so much as how many dice you roll, or how many levels of it you bought in M&M's case. It's not bad, but it just kind of sits there as my 2nd or 3rd or 4th choice for a super hero game. But still well ahead of Marvel Heroic.
That's pretty much where I stand on M&M really (although I actually quite liked Marvel Heroic in a way - if they had kept going with the license, it may have convinced me). I struggle to like supers games though generally - Champions/HERO just looks like a massive chore to me - although I do like 2000AD, so maybe the new Judge Dredd/2000AD rpg based on the generic N.E.W. (WOIN) system may work out for me as being 'the one' I actually end up liking.
Quote from: TrippyHippy;983610That's pretty much where I stand on M&M really (although I actually quite liked Marvel Heroic in a way - if they had kept going with the license, it may have convinced me). I struggle to like supers games though generally - Champions/HERO just looks like a massive chore to me - although I do like 2000AD, so maybe the new Judge Dredd/2000AD rpg based on the generic N.E.W. (WOIN) system may work out for me as being 'the one' I actually end up liking.
Champions does look wedge like. What's WOIN like in play? My cousin is a Dredd fan so I told him about the license. Good call? Bad call?
I'd say Shadowrun but FFG Star Wars has already filled that niche better than any edition of SR ever did.
Quote from: KingCheops;983837I'd say Shadowrun but FFG Star Wars has already filled that niche better than any edition of SR ever did.
I'll be keeping an eye open on the generic version of that system for sure.
I'd like to see a new edition of Wraethu. This time they should name the example character Darren Maclennan.
Also F.A.T.A.L. should be updated with a sample character named Darren MacLennan.
Quote from: Schwartzwald;983955I'd like to see a new edition of Wraethu. This time they should name the example character Darren Maclennan.
Also F.A.T.A.L. should be updated with a sample character named Darren MacLennan.
Stop threadcrapping.
Quote from: HorusArisen;983611Champions does look wedge like. What's WOIN like in play? My cousin is a Dredd fan so I told him about the license. Good call? Bad call?
I haven't played it, to be sure, but I have read it. It's basically a D6 dice pool system, although the size of the dice pool is based upon a ranking system for characteristics, skills and equipment with a cumulative cap on dice pools at set experience levels. I'm not sure why they need the ranking system, to be honest (why not just have the poolsize equate to the ranking directly?), but there may be an underlying reason for it that I haven't picked up on yet. But essentially, it seems a straightforward enough and playable system. I'm a Dredd fan too, so although I can't qualify my answer as having played it (of course the JD game isn't released yet anyway), I don't think it'll disappoint.
Cool
Quote from: Krimson;983840I'll be keeping an eye open on the generic version of that system for sure.
Yup. Hopefully the price point is a lot cheaper than Star Wars due to the lack of an expensive license.
Quote from: KingCheops;984214Yup. Hopefully the price point is a lot cheaper than Star Wars due to the lack of an expensive license.
That's information easily available if you wanted to know. Corebooks for the SW lines are 59.95$ each. The Genesys corebook is 39.95$ (at least that is the price given on FFG's product page at the moment).
That being said, you can get the SW corebooks cheaper as well...for example via amazon.
Quote from: Anglachel;984492That's information easily available if you wanted to know. Corebooks for the SW lines are 59.95$ each. The Genesys corebook is 39.95$ (at least that is the price given on FFG's product page at the moment).
That being said, you can get the SW corebooks cheaper as well...for example via amazon.
Ah yeah but I'm thinking more along the lines of what sorts of rules are included. For instance if I were to run Shadowrun ever again I'd do so using FFG Star Wars. However, the rules for everything is scattered across nearly a dozen books. I already own those but for someone looking to do Cyberpunk with Genesys do they just need 2 $40 books?
Well, I decided that the Appendix P rules in Dark Albion required a larger, more complete edition. Hence, the upcoming Lion & Dragon game.
I'd like to see a Pathfinder 2nd edition.
In part to clean up a lot of crap that is in the system, and also because it would make so many of the Pathfinder fanboys' heads explode with rage that "all their books are now obsolete!!!!1one"
Just make all RPGs subscription. With free errata updates every mid-year. And paid renewals every year, to stay current with the rules.
We live in a world replete with editions and clones of a vast array of old games, which is cool, but The Fantasy Trip got mostly left by the wayside for IP reasons. You could argue that the 4 editions of GURPS are the legacy of TFT, but GURPS is a much bigger, fussier game so I tend to think of it as its own thing. I'd love to see (or even better, make!) a second edition of TFT that was done as a polished boxed set with the rules pretty similar to the original, just organized properly and perhaps edited and tweaked for content to tidy up a few things all the old grognards know could have been improved. It would be amazing.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;987115Just make all RPGs subscription. With free errata updates every mid-year. And paid renewals every year, to stay current with the rules.
Or better yet, do them right the first time and move on to a new project.
Quote from: Larsdangly;987132We live in a world replete with editions and clones of a vast array of old games, which is cool, but The Fantasy Trip got mostly left by the wayside for IP reasons. You could argue that the 4 editions of GURPS are the legacy of TFT, but GURPS is a much bigger, fussier game so I tend to think of it as its own thing. I'd love to see (or even better, make!) a second edition of TFT that was done as a polished boxed set with the rules pretty similar to the original, just organized properly and perhaps edited and tweaked for content to tidy up a few things all the old grognards know could have been improved. It would be amazing.
Yes, it would be.
Quote from: Larsdangly;987132I'd love to see (or even better, make!) a second edition of TFT that was done as a polished boxed set with the rules pretty similar to the original, just organized properly and perhaps edited and tweaked for content to tidy up a few things all the old grognards know could have been improved. It would be amazing.
Why can't you?
I mean, you can't call it 'The Fantasy Trip', but other than changing names of things it seems like it ought to work.
Not that it would be profitable enough to justify a boxed set, or anything more than a labor of love.
Quote from: Simlasa;987345Not that it would be profitable enough to justify a boxed set, or anything more than a labor of love.
That applies to almost every RPG.
A TFT retroclone would be nice to see.
An RPG that actually made money for a small, independant creator would also be nice to see.
Ive got a couple different versions of TFT kicking around my hard drive, with more and less modification for house rules. The main thing that keeps me from polishing one of them up and sending it out the door is that I can't be confident Ive really scrubbed every sentence of original material out of any of them. I don't think I can publish a retroclone that plagarizes the original. I suppose with enough work I could get it street legal, but it irks me to spend weeks picking through something that is perfectly good as it is, re-writing sentences for no good reason.
I'd like to see ringworld redone. I think BRP is a great system and the KS setting was good even if I hate Niven personally.
It could use a vehicle/device construction system.
Quote from: DavetheLost;987363An RPG that actually made money for a small, independant creator would also be nice to see.
Well, Raggi made it work with LotFP (even as a boxed set)... but that's got D&D going for it, plus dumping a load of cash into art.
I'd get behind a Kickstarter for a TFT clone if it seemed to have its priorities straight.
Quote from: Larsdangly;987132We live in a world replete with editions and clones of a vast array of old games, which is cool, but The Fantasy Trip got mostly left by the wayside for IP reasons. You could argue that the 4 editions of GURPS are the legacy of TFT, but GURPS is a much bigger, fussier game so I tend to think of it as its own thing. I'd love to see (or even better, make!) a second edition of TFT that was done as a polished boxed set with the rules pretty similar to the original, just organized properly and perhaps edited and tweaked for content to tidy up a few things all the old grognards know could have been improved. It would be amazing.
There are a couple of TFT clones. Heroes and Other Worlds is one, I think the other is called Legends? Not sure about the second one.
Quote from: Larsdangly;987132We live in a world replete with editions and clones of a vast array of old games, which is cool, but The Fantasy Trip got mostly left by the wayside for IP reasons. You could argue that the 4 editions of GURPS are the legacy of TFT, but GURPS is a much bigger, fussier game so I tend to think of it as its own thing. I'd love to see (or even better, make!) a second edition of TFT that was done as a polished boxed set with the rules pretty similar to the original, just organized properly and perhaps edited and tweaked for content to tidy up a few things all the old grognards know could have been improved. It would be amazing.
Tangent warning
TFT is my one real RPG regret. There are other older games that I have run across that I missed out on at the time, but that was because I didn't know about them.
I knew about TFT but didn't take the time to really look at it. There were even kids at my Jr. High playing it 80-82 ish, so it would have been fairly easy to try out. It looked kind of cheap with the little micro games books, and it just used d6 which added to the "not a real RPG" image. My gaming friends didn't include any of those playing TFT which didn't help. We were playing D&D, Runequest and Traveller at the time. By 83-88 we were trying all kinds of new games and in '85 were waiting with baited breath for GURPS, and eagerly gobbled up copies of Man to Man when it came out.
I don't know that today I'd really like TFT as is was in 81 (or whenever), but I would love a 128 page complete fantasy game borrowing heavily from GURPS / HERO. I love GURPS and HERO, but they have been afflicted with rules bloat. Just please for all that is holy fix the magic is tied to strength thing in GURPS (which I understand carried over from TFT), that has never set right with me.
The lite versions of both games feel incomplete to me as they are essentially abridged versions of the larger game aimed mainly as introductions to the larger games. While they can certainly be used as a stand alone game, they feel incomplete because they were not written from the ground up as a stand alone game.
There is some mysterious principle at play with TFT. You were right to think it was somehow not a real rpg when it first came out: it was intended to be a board game that would draw on the audience for fantasy rpg's, but follow the business model and design principles of an inexpensive board game (Metagaming's specialty). And somehow by not trying to make an rpg, they ended up distilling the idea of an rpg down to its most essential enjoyable tactical elements. And it turned out to be so fun and so popular that they expanded it (a bit) and slapped the things you need to play a campaign on top of it, and that is the version of TFT most people know. GURPS really should be its honorable descendant, but for some reason no matter how much of GURPS you strip away, it still feels like a highly engineered game that lacks something of the spontaneity and fun of TFT. This really is a property that would make a wonderful 'resurected' edition.
Quote from: DavetheLost;987363An RPG that actually made money for a small, independant creator would also be nice to see.
Tons of RPGs make money for their creators. Every RPG I made has made a considerable amount of money for me, enough that RPG-writing is a significant percentage of my annual income.
Quote from: Schwartzwald;987467I'd like to see ringworld redone. I think BRP is a great system and the KS setting was good even if I hate Niven personally.
It could use a vehicle/device construction system.
What system would you want to run the setting? BRP or something different?
Not to threadjack, but why do you hate Niven?
It would be nice to have reissues of Ghost Busters, Toon and The Price of Freedom.
Quote from: Voros;990953It would be nice to have reissues of Ghost Busters, Toon and The Price of Freedom.
Maybe they can do a Costikyan bundle.
Quote from: Tetsubo;988976What system would you want to run the setting? BRP or something different?
Not to threadjack, but why do you hate Niven?
His involvement with the sigma society and his ''solution'' to healthcare. Plus his ''inferno'' novels which were nothing but Alex Jones style attacks on the left. Oh, add in that he was born into a very rich family and clearly thinks people on welfare are basically subhuman. Plus arrogance. I hate arrogant people.
As to a system to do Known Space in, I mean gurps would be OK. Hero, EABA, anything with a vehicle\device design system.
Quote from: Voros;990953It would be nice to have reissues of Ghost Busters, Toon and The Price of Freedom.
My original copy of Ghostbusters is a treasure of mine, but I had to restore parts of it. Fortunately, I could with the help of Ghostbusters Ressurected, which I could get dice and cards made, as well as providing all the original rules online (which can be printed). The link is here: https://nerdyshow.com/ghostbusters/ (https://nerdyshow.com/ghostbusters/)
I think licensing issues may make it difficult to see a return of the WEG Ghostbusters game, but this does keep the game alive for those who want it in the same way that the old TSR Marvel Super Heroes is completely available online too.
Toon would certainly be something I would pick up again if they splashed out on making a full colour version of it, and tidied up a few rule tweaks here and there. Not sure if SJGames would take the risk on it though, which is a shame.
The Price of Freedom was considered a controversial RPG in the UK when it was released (check out letters in White Dwarf magazine at the time), and I actually think there are better military based alternative history games out there now anyway.
Thanks for the GB link and I happily found Toon used for a reasonable price. I find The Price of Freedom amusing but there are those who insist on taking it seriously on this very board so...I do value its typically simple and elegant Costikyan combat system.
Quote from: Dumarest;990966Maybe they can do a Costikyan bundle.
Could show up on pdf as a Bundle of Holding on day but as Trippyhippy says rights could get in the way.
Quote from: Voros;991053Could show up on pdf as a Bundle of Holding on day but as Trippyhippy says rights could get in the way.
I'm sure they would.
Also, The Price of Freedom is satirical, how on earth was it controversial? It's hilarious.
Quote from: Schwartzwald;990977His involvement with the sigma society and his ''solution'' to healthcare. Plus his ''inferno'' novels which were nothing but Alex Jones style attacks on the left. Oh, add in that he was born into a very rich family and clearly thinks people on welfare are basically subhuman
Ummmm.
Sigma Society? There are four separate and distinct
Sigma Societies that I know of, two of which ...would not admit him ...which one of the other two are you referring to? I'm presuming here that you mean the
Epsilon Sigma society founded originally by Ben Campbell, and whom just happen to have included Robert Heinlein, Larry Niven, and Jerry Pournelle amongst others, the same
Epsilon Sigma whom recently (2007) stepped up and volunteered to advise the
Department of Homeland Security on how to properly protect ourselves from the statistically non-existent threat of international terrorism. You mean
that Sigma Society?
Reference:
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9ak7y5/the-secret-authoritarian-history-of-science-fiction
Also, ...what solution to
Healthcare? Because as far as I know, Larry Niven hasn't proposed a viable solution to solve the American Healthcare Crisis.
Quote from: Dumarest;991061Also, The Price of Freedom is satirical, how on earth was it controversial? It's hilarious.
From the Wikipedia page:
QuoteTwo French articles criticized the way the Soviets are depicted, and espcecially the fact that only American resistants have Hero Points, and only Soviets and collaborationists endure panic. In an interview to Juhana Pettersson (a Finnish novelist, TV producer, journalist and game designer), Greg Costikyan admitted:
My political views are not those of The Price of Freedom; at the time, I considered myself a 'left libertarian'.
[…] Some of my more liberal friends were intrigued by the idea, but repulsed by the heavy-handed nature of its political message […] But in general, you know, it was a flop. We had quite a lot of interest from the distributors pre-publication, but in the event, it did not sell particularly well. Keep in mind that this was the Gorbachev era, US-Soviet relations were improving, and the scenario was viewed as pretty implausible. […] [I'm] A tad embarrassed by the game.
-- Greg Costikyan to Juhana Pettersson, Non-Digital: Better Dead Than Red
What do folks recon about SPI's Dragonquest? It was purchased by TSR and strangled in its crib, but really was a terrific fantasy game. Its approach to skills, melee combat and magic were unique and really played well. On one hand' I'd say it doesn't need a retroclone because it is a good game and not hard to buy. So, if you are into it, just play it. On the other hand, it would be a much better game if its 80's era approach to ornately complex formulas were rationalized, and if the experience and weapon skill system were streamlined. It also should have been written with a system for social class/status and some kind of religious powers. So, I don't think it would be hard to put together something that is in line with other popular OSR games - re-imagined and possibly improved versions of the original, which you might prefer in actual play. What do you think?
Quote from: Dumarest;991061I'm sure they would.
Also, The Price of Freedom is satirical, how on earth was it controversial? It's hilarious.
S'mon claims that Costikyan's claims it was satire was merely a cover for his actual views or something...honestly he didn't make much sense.
Not so very long ago I would have said Dungeons & Dragons. Not the bloated, video game post 3.0 version, but something closer to the original and to the Basic line. Then along came Beyond the Wall and Other Adventures which does exactly what I want from a D&D game.
Gamma World was in a similar state until Mutant Future. Which was needed especially to bring the feel of the first and second edditions of GW back into print.
Most of the games I would like to see get a new edition would be just as well served by a reprint. I want to be able to point my players to where they can get a copy of the rules for themselves.
Dragonquest would benefit from a new edition to do two things, clean up the wargames style case number presentation of the rules, and bring the game back into visibility.
Oh, also that Flashing Blades game could really use an update. Where are the rules for vampires, werewolves and skeleton pirates? No Gypsy curses either. Also give it shing hardcovers with lots of full colour art under the text, and full page illustrations. Don't forget a book or three of special Feats. Oh, and airships too. I mean hasn't the author seen "The Musketeer"?
Quote from: GameDaddy;991107Ummmm. Sigma Society? There are four separate and distinct Sigma Societies that I know of, two of which ...would not admit him ...which one of the other two are you referring to? I'm presuming here that you mean the Epsilon Sigma society founded originally by Ben Campbell, and whom just happen to have included Robert Heinlein, Larry Niven, and Jerry Pournelle amongst others, the same Epsilon Sigma whom recently (2007) stepped up and volunteered to advise the Department of Homeland Security on how to properly protect ourselves from the statistically non-existent threat of international terrorism. You mean that Sigma Society?
Reference:
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9ak7y5/the-secret-authoritarian-history-of-science-fiction
Also, ...what solution to Healthcare? Because as far as I know, Larry Niven hasn't proposed a viable solution to solve the American Healthcare Crisis.
When corporate apologists were scapegoating illegal immigrants using ERs as the case of out of control healthcare costs in the 80's njvennoroposed spreading a rumor that illegals going to ERs we're being detained, killed and their organs were harvested for transplants. He thought but might scare them into. Not not going to ERs. When it was pointed out many of them. Might die in such cases his attitude was a shrug.
Quote from: DavetheLost;991187Oh, also that Flashing Blades game could really use an update. Where are the rules for vampires, werewolves and skeleton pirates? No Gypsy curses either. Also give it shing hardcovers with lots of full colour art under the text, and full page illustrations. Don't forget a book or three of special Feats. Oh, and airships too. I mean hasn't the author seen "The Musketeer"?
Well done. :p
But you forgot it also needs rules for flying galleons and Milla Jovovich kung fu wirework.
Living steel could do with a new edition. With a workable system.
Dragon quest is fine as is, just needs a hardback and a boxed set full of Ral Partha miniatures.
Quote from: David Johansen;991243Dragon quest is fine as is, just needs a hardback and a boxed set full of Ral Partha miniatures.
Which edition of DragonQuest?
DragonQuest could definitely be improved in a new edition. But it would be tricky to limit oneself to the mere reorganization and mechanical cleanup, without taking it too far. (See recent conversations on the good goal of making a system more unified by going too far to a unified mechanic.) I think with a lot of work the full 3E version could cover the exact same material in 2/3 to 3/4 of the pages. It's that bloated by language and organization issues.
I will second Alternity, not so much for the mechanics, but to get the settings updated and back in circulation.
Not a new edition, but I'd like to see D&D 5e get actual first-party support.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;991257DragonQuest could definitely be improved in a new edition. But it would be tricky to limit oneself to the mere reorganization and mechanical cleanup, without taking it too far. (See recent conversations on the good goal of making a system more unified by going too far to a unified mechanic.) I think with a lot of work the full 3E version could cover the exact same material in 2/3 to 3/4 of the pages. It's that bloated by language and organization issues.
Agreed; a good rule of thumb for these sorts of OSR projects is: can your re-hash be used to play an old published adventure without resorting to conversion notes? If so, you've tended the garden; if not, you've created your own fantasy heartbreaker.
Quote from: Larsdangly;991317Agreed; a good rule of thumb for these sorts of OSR projects is: can your re-hash be used to play an old published adventure without resorting to conversion notes? If so, you've tended the garden; if not, you've created your own fantasy heartbreaker.
Right. I'm aiming at the other side. I lack the expertise, interest, and legal rights to do a clone, and would not want to do one if I'm not going to do it right. Therefore, the clear goal is to make a game I like inspired by DQ, but not overly beholden to it. It will be significantly different than a good or bad clone, and thus, I hope, avoid the heartbreaker trap in the process.
There seems to be an uncanny valley type effect in new editions some time, where the game sits with one foot in the old game and one foot ... elsewhere. People said that D&D 4E would have been more accepted had it been marketed as something as other than D&D. I don't know about that. But I think it would have been a
better game if it had abandoned some of the traditional stuff it tried to limply hang onto. So to me, it's either make a
faithful clone or make something new. There usually isn't any in between.
I would say Game of Thrones could use an OSR edition, but then you can already use Dark Albion for that.
Quote from: TrippyHippy;982889(snip) I'd like to see Stormbringer return as a part of a series of Multiverse-wide Eternal Champion games. (snip)
Agreed.
Quote from: danskmacabre;983054Yeah I'd love to see a new edition of the "Michael Moorcock" Eternal Champion RPGs such as Hawkmoon, Elric, Corum etc. I'd prefer to see more simplified RQ rules, rather than the later complicated and frankly awkward to run and play later editions of the RQ rules sets. (snip) I would totally buy into a new integrated "Eternal Champion" type simplified RQ Unisystem though. :)
While I do agree with this, I'm wondering whether a successful conversion of 13th Age to Glorantha might blaze a trail for a 13th Age-powered version of Stormbringer and the Eternal Champion? Icons might even work better if they're the forces of Law, Chaos, and Balance instead.
Quote from: Larsdangly;991109What do folks recon about SPI's Dragonquest? It was purchased by TSR and strangled in its crib, but really was a terrific fantasy game. Its approach to skills, melee combat and magic were unique and really played well. On one hand' I'd say it doesn't need a retroclone because it is a good game and not hard to buy. So, if you are into it, just play it. On the other hand, it would be a much better game if its 80's era approach to ornately complex formulas were rationalized, and if the experience and weapon skill system were streamlined. It also should have been written with a system for social class/status and some kind of religious powers. So, I don't think it would be hard to put together something that is in line with other popular OSR games - re-imagined and possibly improved versions of the original, which you might prefer in actual play. What do you think?
This was the first game I actually owned and ran but it was soon overtaken by the popularity of and support for D&D, even back in 1981.
Nevertheless, I've taken a fresh look at it a few times and am surprised at how well it holds up after all these years. And, of course, it's a lot better organised than anything by Gygax.
Quote from: RPGPundit;991731I would say Game of Thrones could use an OSR edition, but then you can already use Dark Albion for that.
I'd prefer a better rule set but to be honest on the back of my thread I don't think GoT has that much going for it as a RPG setting.
I'd like to see Ars Magica cleaned up, and given a better core resolution mechanic. Especially for mundane abilities, taking a small bonus and adding an exploding d10 is too swingy.
I'd like to see a new Champions/HERO game, whether that be an "OSR" version of one of the pre-FRED editions, or Steve Long putting out HERO 7e. I like Steve Long and admire the dedication he has to the franchise, but 6e is a mess. Champions Complete 6e cleans it up a bit, but you still have a game that drops a 400 point budget on players that often sends newbies fleeing.
Quote from: HorusArisen;991810I'd prefer a better rule set but to be honest on the back of my thread I don't think GoT has that much going for it as a RPG setting.
The War of the Roses has more going for it, I think.
Quote from: RPGPundit;992180The War of the Roses has more going for it, I think.
Heck yeah, I was looking at Dark Albion and Shakespeare's plays on that era plus a cool thick illustrated volume like a "War of the Roses for Dummies" except better and was thinking what a rich setting it would be and thought about matching up the Pendragon rules to it, though probably without the Winter Phase, or at least with more happening between Winter Phases, and dropping all supernatural/magical stuff out.
Luther Arkwright needs a new edition, which is standalone and doesn't require flicking through the Mythras full rules (can't get by with just the free Mythras Imperative because they don't include Mysticism rules). It would require the addition of some thirty pages or so, to include all the rules necessary.
The Design Mechanism won't do this sadly, as they have invested time into other prioritised projects. I'd also like to see them go and win The Eternal Champion (Elric, Hawkmoon, Corum, etc) series as a license, to get the two lines to crossover with the Mythras rules....but one can only wish...
Quote from: Dumarest;992182Heck yeah, I was looking at Dark Albion and Shakespeare's plays on that era plus a cool thick illustrated volume like a "War of the Roses for Dummies" except better and was thinking what a rich setting it would be and thought about matching up the Pendragon rules to it, though probably without the Winter Phase, or at least with more happening between Winter Phases, and dropping all supernatural/magical stuff out.
Yes, I could see that working.
Quote from: Risotto;991833I'd like to see Ars Magica cleaned up, and given a better core resolution mechanic. Especially for mundane abilities, taking a small bonus and adding an exploding d10 is too swingy.
I'd like to see a new Champions/HERO game, whether that be an "OSR" version of one of the pre-FRED editions, or Steve Long putting out HERO 7e. I like Steve Long and admire the dedication he has to the franchise, but 6e is a mess. Champions Complete 6e cleans it up a bit, but you still have a game that drops a 400 point budget on players that often sends newbies fleeing.
In the case of Champions, I think they need to go back to basics on it, in order to communicate the core game experience better than it does currently. They seem to be doing a bit of promotion of the 4th Edition recently - with updated PDFs and so on - so maybe the creators are thinking down these lines already.
In the case of Ars Magica, I think it's just a matter of time before Cam Banks/John Nephew and co. look at doing a new edition, but they are looking at the fifth edition winding down in a slow, relaxed fashion as people get through what amounts to a long, long line of supplements to digest on the 5th edition. There is a Gumshoe version coming, focused on the Quaesitores (investigators), but that is just going to be a one off I think. I've no idea what a new Ars Magica game would look like, but I hope that character generation is a lot simpler and I'd look at possibly changing the base mechanic too - probably using D6s rather than a D10.
Quote from: RPGPundit;993373Yes, I could see that working.
Well, credit where credit is due, Dark Albion has done the hardest work for me by laying out the period and mores and important personages in an easily understandable fashion.
Palladium needs to do a revision of Rifts. I don't think it really needs to be a "new" edition in the way that D&D does new editions but it needs to be updated, cleaned up, actually organized, and the skill system needs to be updated.
Quote from: Dumarest;993431Well, credit where credit is due, Dark Albion has done the hardest work for me by laying out the period and mores and important personages in an easily understandable fashion.
Thank you. And if you were going with a "Great Pendragon Campaign" format, the timeline chapter gives you the framework for that too.