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Glad to have you here to talk about games!


So what game stuff shall we talk about today?

I'm in the mood to talk about lots of stuff. H&S2E, S&S games, how to make my video blog unique...

Any ideas on those fronts?

Yeah, welcome, RobMuadib! :)

I think I might be missing something.

Quote from: beejazz;551619I think I might be missing something.

User RobMuadib got permabanned from RPGnet and posted here about it. Now the thread was locked, but RobMuadib is very much welcome here, so let's talk about games, by all means. :)

Yeah, we need a big thread like this for every single new poster.  :rolleyes:

So what games do you want to talk about, Dan?

Quote from: danbuter;551621Yeah, we need a big thread like this for every single new poster.  :rolleyes:

I'd like to point out that I've known Robmuadib for a while, and have had some cool conversations with him. In part that's why I'm welcoming him.

I missed the new thread over here, but welcome back to Rob.
 
My random gaming topic that seems vaguely appropriate: I'm running a Dark Sun game at the moment that's pretty heavily inspired by Dune, using the Savage Worlds rules. The PCs are riding around on a sandworm freeing slaves and butchering hostile tribes and so on - they've just managed to find a dungeon..well buried ruins unearthed after a huge sandstorm. Actually working surprisingly well, though SW's fantasy supplement doesn't 100% cover the Athasian races of course.

I slaute both the newcomer, and the chance for a random gaming thread. Maybe Rob could tell us about his ongoing games, or his ideas for future ones?

Quote from: danbuter;551621Yeah, we need a big thread like this for every single new poster.  :rolleyes:

Most of the threads on the first page of this forum have been started for much worse reasons.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;551626My random gaming topic that seems vaguely appropriate: I'm running a Dark Sun game at the moment that's pretty heavily inspired by Dune, using the Savage Worlds rules. The PCs are riding around on a sandworm freeing slaves and butchering hostile tribes and so on - they've just managed to find a dungeon..well buried ruins unearthed after a huge sandstorm. Actually working surprisingly well, though SW's fantasy supplement doesn't 100% cover the Athasian races of course.

Sounds like my sort of game! :) One of the cool things I realized, when I tried my hand at a Savage Worlds conversion of Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved, is how ridiculously frickin' easy it is to create new races with Savage Worlds.

My pet peeve with it is still the Powers system, which is bland as all hell. Sure, enterprising GMs and players can throw in all sorts of effects, but additional rules for tinkering with individual Powers would be nice.

Speaking of which. How are you modeling defiling magic?

I like dice.

Quote from: The Butcher;551628Sounds like my sort of game! :) One of the cool things I realized, when I tried my hand at a Savage Worlds conversion of Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved, is how ridiculously frickin' easy it is to create new races with Savage Worlds.
 
My pet peeve with it is still the Powers system, which is bland as all hell. Sure, enterprising GMs and players can throw in all sorts of effects, but additional rules for tinkering with individual Powers would be nice.
 
Speaking of which. How are you modeling defiling magic?

They haven't run across any defilers as yet. Currently I was thinking of having defiling treated primarily as a trapping- I think there's a 'Wanted' type hindrance somewhere which represents that basically anyone who knows you're a defiler (i.e. sees you using magic as all the plants die) wants to kill you, and that of itself basically pays off the initial 'Arcane Background' edge.
I might consider replacing the limited # power points with power points based off the available plantlife, but not sure.
 
 
Oh I also gave all the PCs a free Arcane Background: Psionics, but with only a single power, to represent the free Wild Talent that PCs are supposed to get (they still need to spend skill points on it to be any good).
One of the PCs (the sandworm rider) has some sort of sonic Burst power ala the Dune movie (OK, perhaps slightly more powerful than in Dune) while another has Healing and the third a 'Mind Blast' using Blast.
For NPCs, I've been whipping out the Psionics Handbook for 2E and rolling random powers, then converting to a SW power that best fits.

I just ran the first session of a new WFRP campaign, with 2 players who I have never run a game for before. There was goblins and squigs and sea elves and nurgleness.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;551636They haven't run across any defilers as yet. Currently I was thinking of having defiling treated primarily as a trapping- I think there's a 'Wanted' type hindrance somewhere which represents that basically anyone who knows you're a defiler (i.e. sees you using magic as all the plants die) wants to kill you, and that of itself basically pays off the initial 'Arcane Background' edge.
I might consider replacing the limited # power points with power points based off the available plantlife, but not sure.

If I remember my Dark Sun, I'm not sure Wanted is a good Hindrance for defilers. After all, they are part of the aristocracy of the city-states, and it's preservers who get persecuted; cf. Veiled Alliance (though I seehow the game might be reversed out there in the desert -- burning up precious oases to power your magic won't earn you a lot of friends).
 
As for defiling magic, maybe an expanded version of the Soul Drain Edge, allowing you to drain animal and plant life (possibly for much less Power Points than people; meaning that you'd new a lot of plant mass per Power Point, leading to rapid deforestation).

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;551636Oh I also gave all the PCs a free Arcane Background: Psionics, but with only a single power, to represent the free Wild Talent that PCs are supposed to get (they still need to spend skill points on it to be any good).
One of the PCs (the sandworm rider) has some sort of sonic Burst power ala the Dune movie (OK, perhaps slightly more powerful than in Dune) while another has Healing and the third a 'Mind Blast' using Blast.
For NPCs, I've been whipping out the Psionics Handbook for 2E and rolling random powers, then converting to a SW power that best fits.

Burst is a Seasoned level Power, I think... I'd restrict wild talents to Novice level Powers, but that's me.

The sorceror kings do keep a few defilers on hand, but in general I think they're still hated enough to qualify, or they could perhaps just take Outsider or something.
 
Looks like Burst is Novice but Blast should be Seasoned, so I goofed a bit there (I helped build that character for the player, so oops). The effects are probably similar enough I can re-spec it without too much trouble.

Quote from: jadrax;551641I just ran the first session of a new WFRP campaign, with 2 players who I have never run a game for before. There was goblins and squigs and sea elves and nurgleness.

Here's hoping it fares better than my WFRP game. I ran the horrible, sucky railroad adventure on the 2e rulebook (Through The Drakwald), and now I'm supposed to start running Paths of the Damned... if scheduling drama doesn't nip the game in the bud.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;551672The sorceror kings do keep a few defilers on hand, but in general I think they're still hated enough to qualify, or they could perhaps just take Outsider or something.

Outsider for all mages, plus Wanted for Veiled Alliance types... yeah, that should work.

Going off on yet another tangent: the new edition? (Deluxe, is it?) Any bells and whistles like "gritty damage" (should be a great fit for a Dark Sun game!) or "dramatic interludes"?

Quote from: The Butcher;551679Here's hoping it fares better than my WFRP game. I ran the horrible, sucky railroad adventure on the 2e rulebook (Through The Drakwald), and now I'm supposed to start running Paths of the Damned... if scheduling drama doesn't nip the game in the bud.
 
 
 
Outsider for all mages, plus Wanted for Veiled Alliance types... yeah, that should work.
 
Going off on yet another tangent: the new edition? (Deluxe, is it?) Any bells and whistles like "gritty damage" (should be a great fit for a Dark Sun game!) or "dramatic interludes"?

Mostly Explorer. Not using gritty damage (as it is, they're already reasonably terrified of damage :) - I nearly dropped one of them with a ridiculous damage roll in the first session...) though it could work.
 
Houserules that have appeared so far are mostly just for getting people comfortable with SW since they're new to it, rather than for Dark Sun specifically:
*guts skill dropped
 
*ability modifiers to skill checks  - a d4 stat gives a -1 modifier to related skill checks, and a d10 or d12 adds +1. This is by player request, because they weren't 100% satisfied with just the cost shift for high stats.
 
*I've been giving some big monsters multiple Wounds...at first I was just making some big things e.g. a manticore they fought Wild Cards, but now I'm just giving them extra wound boxes, and not the wild die. If its larger than about horse-sized I'll increase the wounds further, instead of raising Toughness as is traditional. Big monsters get to be shaken when they lose 1/2 their wounds. I'd probably get keelhauled for this (very very politely, of course :) ) on the main PEG forums/
 
*they bargained me up to 7 discretionary stat points to start with rather than 5 (which I thought fit in with the Dark Sun higher than normal ability scores).
 
I also haven't really been enforcing the requirement to take Background Edges only at 1st level, just since the players weren't completely across the rules when the characters were first built, though it hasn't come up yet.

I've been thinking of using something (maybe Fate, maybe Legend, maybe Dragonlance Saga with some house rules) to run the AD&D module Treasure Hunt, adapted to the Dark Sun setting.

I think it would be fun to watch people get their "class" from play, and see how they do in the world of Dark Sun.

Quote from: Silverlion;551784I've been thinking of using something (maybe Fate, maybe Legend, maybe Dragonlance Saga with some house rules) to run the AD&D module Treasure Hunt, adapted to the Dark Sun setting.
 
I think it would be fun to watch people get their "class" from play, and see how they do in the world of Dark Sun.

Sounds like fun - shipwrecked in the Sea of Silt somewhere ? I love that place, just because its so weird.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;551797Sounds like fun - shipwrecked in the Sea of Silt somewhere ? I love that place, just because its so weird.

Yeah, I was thinking that would be it. The goddess statue makes sense, and the creatures "goblins," will of course be something else. I can see it all working very well, and if I play it right get them from zero to third. (Slaves in a wrecked ship, to playable characters.)

Quote from: Silverlion;551617Glad to have you here to talk about games!


So what game stuff shall we talk about today?

I'm in the mood to talk about lots of stuff. H&S2E, S&S games, how to make my video blog unique...

Any ideas on those fronts?

Tim,

thanks for the welcome. I haven't seen what you have been doing with H&S2 yet. Be interested to see what your looking to change/revise for 2nd ed.

Quote from: RobMuadib;552107Tim,

thanks for the welcome. I haven't seen what you have been doing with H&S2 yet. Be interested to see what your looking to change/revise for 2nd ed.

PM me your email and I can send you an invite to the playtest group, or email you the "testing" files as they stand.

As well as get you a 1E copy anyway.

Before I get stoned who is he? I know I'm missing something important as usual. Blame it on my Mage addiction if you must.:)

Quote from: Marleycat;552123Before I get stoned who is he?.

This hardly seems fair.

Quote from: Aos;552125This hardly seems fair.

What? You have something against a good bowl now and again?*

*You did walk straight into it. I had to take it.;)

Seriously, who is he?

Quote from: The Butcher;551628I salute both the newcomer, and the chance for a random gaming thread. Maybe Rob could tell us about his ongoing games, or his ideas for future ones?

Heya Butcher, thanks for the welcome.

Working on running a 'D&D' game for my friend's kid and some of her friends. Will most likely be using Fantasycraft. Which is my fav OGL derived fantasy game out there right now. Playing various Euro Board games as well.

My main gaming project at the moment is the design of my RPG I'm working on, which focuses on collaborative world building and setting design stuff and 'lifepath' character creation.  My designer playtest project for it is recreate Rifts in it, as a test of the system and to have fun.

Also have been picking up a ton of RPG's lately. Here is big list of games I have picked up recently. (By genre).

FANTASY:

    Adventurer Conqueror King (Autarch)
    Aeternal Legends  (Modern Urban fantasy) from Malcom Sheppard/Mob United media
    Anima Prime (Berengard games)
    Dragon Age (Green Ronin)
    Early Dark (Anthropopos)
    Epic RPG Mark III(Dark Matter Studios)
    Fantasycraft 2nd Printing (Crafty Games)
    Fortunes Fool (Pantheon Press LLC)
    House of the Blooded (John Wick)
    House of Cards (Parenthesis Press)
    Legend (Mongoose)
    Ingenium (Silver Gryphon Games)
    Malestrom (Arion Games)
    Spellbound Kingdoms (Frank Brunner)
    Tales of Wyn'Demere (SHield of Faith Studios)
    The Fantasy Sagas (Ironwood Omnimedia)
    The Secret of Zir'An (Paragon Games)

HORROR

    Apocalypse Prevention, Inc (Third Eye Games/Eloy Lasanta)
    Chthulutech (Catalyst Printing/WildfireLLC) from my FLGS even!
    Dread: First book of Pandemonium (Neoplastic Press/Rafael Chandler)
    Enter the Shadowside – Marco Leon
    Trail of Chthulu (Pelgrane (Ken Hite/Robin Laws)
    Trucker: Open Road Adventure in the Long Haul (TIm Bryant & Deems MOrrione)

MODERN/HISTORICAL

    Black Seven (Stew Wilson)
    Blowback (Elizabeth Sampat)
    Coyote Trail (PIG)
    In Harms Way: Wild Blue (Better Mousetrap Games)
    Outremer (Better Mousetrap Games)
    Twilight 2013 (93 games studios)

SCIFI

    Alpha Omega Core Rulebook (Mindstorm Labs)
    Apocalypse World (Vincent Baker)
    Ascendancy: Rogue Marshal (Broken Tower)
    Ashen Stars (Pelgrane/Robin Laws)
    Atomic Highway: Post Apocalypse Roleplaying (Radioactive Ape/Colin Chapman)
    Burning Empires (Luke Crane)
    Cosmic Patrol (Catalyst Game Labs)
    Diaspora (VCSA Publishing)
    Eclipse Phase (Transhuman Studios)
    Steamfortress Victory: Core Mechanix (Industrial Dream Mills)
    Rapture: The End of Days (J. Sweeny)
    Remember Tomorrow (Box Ninja/GRegor Hutton)
    Remnants (Outrider Studios/Steve Bergeron)
    Starblazer Adventures (Cubicle 7)
    Survivors of the Fire (Friz Games/Matt Frisbee)
    Stars Without Number (Sine Nomine/Kevin Crawford)
    Technoir: High Tech, Hardboiled Roleplaying (Cellar Games/Jeremy Keller)
    Thousand Suns (Rogue Games/James Maliszewski)
    Traveller (Mongoose ed)

SUPERS

    GCore (Dilly Green Bean Games)
    Invulnerable: Tabletop Superhero RPG (Imperfekt GamesJoshua Kubli)
    Marvel Heroic Roleplaying: Basic Game (MWP/Cam Banks)
    Mutants & Masterminds – 3rd ed (Green Ronin/Steve Kenson)

UNIVERSAL

    Alpha Chronicles (J Keith Wynkowski)
    Aether: Core Book (Silver Gryphon Games/Kevin Robin)
    Bare Bones Multiverse Core Rules (Scaldcrow games)
    Basic Roleplaying – 4th ed (Chaosium)
    Cortex Plus (MWP)
    Dice & Glory (Ranger Games)
    Genre Diversion 3 (Precis Intermedia)
    Hero System 6th ed (Hero)
    Karma Roleplaying System (Bards and Sages)
    Microscope (Lame Mage Productions/Ben Robbins)
    Moebius Adventures Core Rules (Bindel/Fitzpatrick)
    Mystic Empyrean (level99 Games/D. Brad Talton Jr.)
    Open Anime Core Rules (Battlefield Press)
    Other Worlds (Other Worlds/Mark Humphreys)
    Pangenre (Pangenre LLC)
    Paragon HDL (Tremorworks/Sean Boyle )
    Savage Worlds Deluxe Edition (PEG/Shane Lacy Hensely)
    Suzerian (Talisman STudios)
    Polyverse Roleplaying System (Bruce Adams)
    Silhouette Core 3rd ed (Dream Pod 9)
    True 20 (Green Ronin)

Ok, I don't know you from Adam, RobMaudib but sense you admit Fantasycraft is the bee's knees you're all good in my book.:)

Quote from: danbuter;551621Yeah, we need a big thread like this for every single new poster.  :rolleyes:

There seem to be more all the time. :D

JG

Tell me of the waters of your homeworld, Usul. ;)

And another big welcome to my old friend Rob! Good to see you here! :D

-clash

Quote from: Marleycat;552123Before I get stoned who is he? I know I'm missing something important as usual. Blame it on my Mage addiction if you must.:)

An old online friend/compatriot/dissenter, in general a person I like.

Like most people we often disagree, sometimes we agree, and either way that's cool in my book.

Quote from: Silverlion;552222An old online friend/compatriot/dissenter, in general a person I like.

Like most people we often disagree, sometimes we agree, and either way that's cool in my book.

Well that's normal and he likes FC! Yay.:)

Quote from: RobMuadib;552140My main gaming project at the moment is the design of my RPG I'm working on, which focuses on collaborative world building and setting design stuff and 'lifepath' character creation. My designer playtest project for it is recreate Rifts in it, as a test of the system and to have fun.

Hi Rob, I still owe you for services rendered back in the design archive, so if you need any looking over anything feel welcome to PM me, or I can probably be found lurking in the darkness of the design subforum if you start any discussions there.
 
Looks like you have been busy picking things up. Anything particularly interesting in the more obscure stuff here? Or any particular favourites as yet? (FantasyCraft obviously).

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;552270Hi Rob, I still owe you for services rendered back in the design archive, so if you need any looking over anything feel welcome to PM me, or I can probably be found lurking in the darkness of the design subforum if you start any discussions there.
 
Looks like you have been busy picking things up. Anything particularly interesting in the more obscure stuff here? Or any particular favourites as yet? (FantasyCraft obviously).

Bloody

Heya, nice to see you again. Most everything I've snagged is for interest in its mechanics and idea for my game. The most interesting stuff to me so far is the stuff with collaborative world design. A few notes.

Mystic Empyrean: This game is pretty cool, it has the most detailed collaborative world design of the games I've reviewed so far. It also has a really cool meta-background that sets the stage for continued world design. It has a really detailed 'realm' design system. It has some non-standard resolution mechanics and an interesting advancement mechanic. What is also interesting is that the game-world has it's own 'bias/axioms' that effects character actions and how stuff works in the game.

Other Worlds: This is a rules light (very rules light, almost no crunch) system that uses shared world collaboration and is design for lots of different world design using a fairly quick world design sequence, with a high level of player buy-in on how the campaign/sessions is setup.

Diaspora: is pretty cool, it is a FATE based homage to Traveller. The think I like most about it is how it setups the cluster setup. Basically, everyone in groups collaborate to create the 6 worlds connected by 'jumpgates' or whatever, using a simple design sequence, lighter using aspects. It also has some cool mini-games and design stuff, a lighter distillation of some of Travellers design sequences. It also has some neat Mass combat and starship combat systems. (Been reviewing Mong Trav too, one of the biggest influences on my game is Trav.)

Burning Empires: This game is based on Burning Wheel, but what's really interesting is how it setups a phased 'alien invasion' grand storytelling element which affects later phases in the game sequences. Cool stuff.

I reviewed some of this stuff in my Blog, linked in my sig.

Quote from: RobMuadib;553199Bloody

Heya, nice to see you again. Most everything I've snagged is for interest in its mechanics and idea for my game. The most interesting stuff to me so far is the stuff with collaborative world design. A few notes.

Mystic Empyrean: This game is pretty cool, it has the most detailed collaborative world design of the games I've reviewed so far. It also has a really cool meta-background that sets the stage for continued world design. It has a really detailed 'realm' design system. It has some non-standard resolution mechanics and an interesting advancement mechanic. What is also interesting is that the game-world has it's own 'bias/axioms' that effects character actions and how stuff works in the game.

Other Worlds: This is a rules light (very rules light, almost no crunch) system that uses shared world collaboration and is design for lots of different world design using a fairly quick world design sequence, with a high level of player buy-in on how the campaign/sessions is setup.

Diaspora: is pretty cool, it is a FATE based homage to Traveller. The think I like most about it is how it setups the cluster setup. Basically, everyone in groups collaborate to create the 6 worlds connected by 'jumpgates' or whatever, using a simple design sequence, lighter using aspects. It also has some cool mini-games and design stuff, a lighter distillation of some of Travellers design sequences. It also has some neat Mass combat and starship combat systems. (Been reviewing Mong Trav too, one of the biggest influences on my game is Trav.)

Burning Empires: This game is based on Burning Wheel, but what's really interesting is how it setups a phased 'alien invasion' grand storytelling element which affects later phases in the game sequences. Cool stuff.

I reviewed some of this stuff in my Blog, linked in my sig.

Someone else who likes storygames. Nice.
Welcome to the forum :-)

Had a quick squizz at the blog, and best of luck with the collaborative world-building system.
 
We've occasionally done some sort of collaborative world thing, but we've always done it fairly ad hoc, or based off people's backgrounds, sometimes mixed with some shifting of who gets to GM when the party moves around. Its interesting to see the thinking around the rules-heavy version of this, though.
 
(Edit: Sorry I'm reduced to folksy anecdotes, I haven't seen many game systems with ideas on the subject worth mentioning : (

Quote from: RobMuadib;553199Bloody

Heya, nice to see you again. Most everything I've snagged is for interest in its mechanics and idea for my game. The most interesting stuff to me so far is the stuff with collaborative world design. A few notes.

Mystic Empyrean: This game is pretty cool, it has the most detailed collaborative world design of the games I've reviewed so far. It also has a really cool meta-background that sets the stage for continued world design. It has a really detailed 'realm' design system. It has some non-standard resolution mechanics and an interesting advancement mechanic. What is also interesting is that the game-world has it's own 'bias/axioms' that effects character actions and how stuff works in the game.

Other Worlds: This is a rules light (very rules light, almost no crunch) system that uses shared world collaboration and is design for lots of different world design using a fairly quick world design sequence, with a high level of player buy-in on how the campaign/sessions is setup.

Diaspora: is pretty cool, it is a FATE based homage to Traveller. The think I like most about it is how it setups the cluster setup. Basically, everyone in groups collaborate to create the 6 worlds connected by 'jumpgates' or whatever, using a simple design sequence, lighter using aspects. It also has some cool mini-games and design stuff, a lighter distillation of some of Travellers design sequences. It also has some neat Mass combat and starship combat systems. (Been reviewing Mong Trav too, one of the biggest influences on my game is Trav.)

Burning Empires: This game is based on Burning Wheel, but what's really interesting is how it setups a phased 'alien invasion' grand storytelling element which affects later phases in the game sequences. Cool stuff.

I reviewed some of this stuff in my Blog, linked in my sig.

Hi Rob :) If Clash and Tim endorse you, you're a friend of mine already as well :D I know it's not fashionable around these parts but I don't give a damn :D, have you seen Microscope (http://www.lamemage.com/)? It's not a RPG in the way I would define one (despite what the sub-title says), but it seems like a pretty dang cool game and is all about world/history building.

Quote from: Sigmund;553325Hi Rob :) If Clash and Tim endorse you, you're a friend of mine already as well :D I know it's not fashionable around these parts but I don't give a damn :D, have you seen Microscope (http://www.lamemage.com/)? It's not a RPG in the way I would define one (despite what the sub-title says), but it seems like a pretty dang cool game and is all about world/history building.

Yep, it's on my VERY LONG list in post #25, I did an overview of it on my blog. He is working on a Kingmaker game now. Domain management/organizatin stuff is another grand storytelling element I am looking at, which is why I picked up ACKS, and Reign, and Houses of the Blooded as well, still gotta snag Echo Resounding, and Book of the Manor for Pendragon. I really like Pendragon's 'family/dynasty' campaign stuff too.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;553217Had a quick squizz at the blog, and best of luck with the collaborative world-building system.
 
We've occasionally done some sort of collaborative world thing, but we've always done it fairly ad hoc, or based off people's backgrounds, sometimes mixed with some shifting of who gets to GM when the party moves around. Its interesting to see the thinking around the rules-heavy version of this, though.
 
(Edit: Sorry I'm reduced to folksy anecdotes, I haven't seen many game systems with ideas on the subject worth mentioning : (

Bloody, no prob, it is not that common in the hobby yet, one of the 'last frontiers' IMO. One of the first games to attempt it, for fantasy, was Aria: Canticle of the Monomyth, which had some cool ideas wrapped in the densest comparative lit/mythology text ever published in an RPG. Decoding it is one of my design exercises. Of course, Traveller was lit the spirit for cool design sequences and building in me, way back to the little black books. another major influence on my design.

Quote from: DominikSchwager;553213Someone else who likes storygames. Nice.
Welcome to the forum :-)

Hey now, don't be saying stuff like that where Pundit can see it. I'm not so much on 'story-games' as I'm into collaborative design/GMing and grand storytelling stuff, as well as Structured session stuff. My heart still lies in detailed mechanics.

Speaking of cool structure play. One of the games I dig out of that list is Black Seven, it is designed to replicate stealth action games like splinter cell/assassins creed etc.  http://www.flamesrising.com/infiltrating-black-seven/

I am also looking at 'grand storytelling' stuff like the Covens in Ars Magica (earliest influence), Dynastic/lineage play in Pendragon, The staged game stuff in Burning Empires, and of course domain management & stuff like in ACKS, Reign etc.

I'm also looking more into into integrating board-game like elements for mini-games (curse you WFRP 3rd!). One of the interesting bits on that is Trucker: Open Road Adventure in the Long Hall.  http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=84065  It uses a but-ton of components, but sets up a cool back and forth play style, moar on the board game style. IT goes back to some of the ideas of Rune, by Robin Laws.

P.S. I need to start multi-quoting or something.

Welcome to the forum Rob.

Quote from: RobMuadib;553199Other Worlds: This is a rules light (very rules light, almost no crunch) system that uses shared world collaboration and is design for lots of different world design using a fairly quick world design sequence, with a high level of player buy-in on how the campaign/sessions is setup.

Hi Rob, I wrote Other Worlds, thanks for the shout-out and the very nice review on your blog. Cheers!

Pundit reviewed it too, by the way. He, um, didn't like it as much as you did. :)

Quote from: soviet;553842Hi Rob, I wrote Other Worlds, thanks for the shout-out and the very nice review on your blog. Cheers!

Pundit reviewed it too, by the way. He, um, didn't like it as much as you did. :)

Heh, well hated by Pundit can be a endorsement with certain market segments.:) It does a pretty good job of doing shared world stuff, I did dog on your super streamlined mechanics and conflict resolution some I will probably have to move to the Other games ghetto soon.

So why shared world stuff? I've run a lot of games over the years, and I've had some rather brilliant friends, but what they think is cool in a setting, and what I think is cool don't always match up.

Quote from: RobMuadib;553461Yep, it's on my VERY LONG list in post #25, I did an overview of it on my blog. He is working on a Kingmaker game now. Domain management/organizatin stuff is another grand storytelling element I am looking at, which is why I picked up ACKS, and Reign, and Houses of the Blooded as well, still gotta snag Echo Resounding, and Book of the Manor for Pendragon. I really like Pendragon's 'family/dynasty' campaign stuff too.

Sweet, Obviously I missed it :) Looking forward to that Kingmaker game.

Quote from: RobMuadib;553860Heh, well hated by Pundit can be a endorsement with certain market segments.:)

Indeed it can.  I suspect that's why at least a few games were sent to me by people that absolutely HAD to know that I'd tear it a new one in the review. Because the Pundit Bump works irrespective of getting a great review or a terrible review.

Its the mediocre reviews that I've always wondered about.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Silverlion;553904So why shared world stuff? I've run a lot of games over the years, and I've had some rather brilliant friends, but what they think is cool in a setting, and what I think is cool don't always match up.

Well, doodling with design stuff and creating setting elements is a big part of the fun of RPG stuff for me, Whether it be creating planets and stuff in Traveller, or designing a campaign world for D&D, or designing vehicles for like battle-tech or something, or doing detailed character creation with some kind of life-path system. Traditionally, this 'solo' play has all been reserved to the GM, or done piecemeal. And in many cases, a lot of the stuff that a GM comes up with in prep, never sees the light of play.

So, the idea is to get everyone to have buy-in on creating their own cool world, putting together a 'playset' and adding stuff to it to play with together. Putting the collaboration on the creation of a shared world and exploring it via communal fantasy as a focus of play, Getting everyone to take part in the 'sub-creation', as spoken of by Tolkien.

cue pretentious shit

Quote'Here Tolkien coins one of his more well-known terms, defining the writing of fairy-stories as "sub-creation", the creation of a secondary world with its own rules and laws. If an author can create a full-realized and consistent secondary world, that exists within its own laws, the reader's disbelief can be suspended, whether they be adult or child. It has, as Tolkien calls it, the "inner consistency of reality" (TR pg 88). '

The terms i have been working for on this is what i call toybox play. That is, everyone agrees on a 'playset' to focus on (the broad sweep of a game world), and then what kind of 'action figures' and vehicles and accessories they want to use in that world, and then stages a game in it. All supported by a robust detailed rule set and design system.

Instead of these cool mechanical artifacts and game notes being poured into a GM's notebook, it is contributed to by all of the players in the campaigns 'World book'.

As you say, consensus and agreement can be a problem, which is why there is a going to be very explicit a structure and play sequence on how you collaborate on things, so far majorly cribbed from Universalis. The idea also is to involve more people in the prep as play elements, as well as open up more mini-game type play with set-piece games, campaign based grand story-telling via mass combat and domain management stuff, as well as traditional character based immersive play.

And yes, it won't be casual/social player friendly, but that is why the creative/design elements and setup are structured in a more detailed, board game like way. Or that is the idea thus far.

Yeah, for me the primary advantage of shared world play and group collaboration/storygaming is engagement.

I don't think these things particularly result in a better game world or story than if the GM does it alone. From the perspective of a third person reading about the campaign after the fact, it probably makes them worse. You gain something in depth and breadth but potentially also lose something in singularity of vision.

But fuck that third person. We're not running our campaign for him, we're doing it for us. And my experience is that when the whole group has ownership of the world and the story, the game becomes more fun. More fun at the table and more fun afterwards when we think about what happened. It may not have been Tolkien but it was ours and it meant something to us. If you want to put a label on it I would probably say it was some kind of immersion in the act of creating and experiencing the story (as opposed to playing a character and experiencing in-world events).

Quote from: Silverlion;553904So why shared world stuff? I've run a lot of games over the years, and I've had some rather brilliant friends, but what they think is cool in a setting, and what I think is cool don't always match up.

Oh yeah, forgot my one other big reason. It is something that computer games are unlikely to be able to do at all/quicker/easier in our lifetimes. While computer games can provide an incredible sim-immersive first person experience, actually creating new material, and new worlds is either non-existent, short of big time development.
Or has an EVEN steeper learning curve than RPG's, via 'DM's toolsets' or crowd-developed stuff. Think of steep the curve is using something like NWN toolset, or even making a mod, it is a mighty labor with high technical know-how barrier to entry. While, average gamers can still bash together some vast imaginative game worlds with kewl bits with some rulebooks and well developed procedures and components, and produce artifacts/materials that can be shared. And then used and explored on a first person level via sim-immersive RPG mechanics, or in grand storytelling mini-game, etc.)

Until we get AI moderated Pseudo-holodeck stuff going, Human moderated RPG framework stuff will be able to do it better/faster/cheaper, and targeted to a particular groups vision.

Yes, that is one of my other, why make this game? answers:)

Quote from: soviet;554062But fuck that third person. We're not running our campaign for him, we're doing it for us. And my experience is that when the whole group has ownership of the world and the story, the game becomes more fun. More fun at the table and more fun afterwards when we think about what happened.

Bollocks. You lose surprise. Without surprise, you have no adventure. You also lose risk when you aren't as invested in your character. Without risk, you have no adventure.

ADVENTURE

ad·ven·ture/adˈvenCHər/

Noun: An unusual and exciting, typically hazardous, experience or activity.
Verb: Engage in hazardous and exciting activity, esp. the exploration of unknown territory: "they had adventured into the forest".

a : an undertaking usually involving danger and unknown risks b : the encountering of risks .

An adventure is defined as an exciting or unusual experience; it may also be a bold, usually risky undertaking, with an uncertain outcome.

There's not even any argument on this. You may handwave surprise away as random encounter tables to one degree or another, but that's bollocks. Hell why even roll the dice, just sit around having a conversation. I can have a conversation any time I want, I can't have an adventure any time I want. If its more fun for you to have a conversation, go hang around a bus stop.

The closest I would come to shared storytelling is in chargen at the start of the campaign, where players work out their backgrounds and goals together so they synch nicely. If they want secrets from one another in the process, that works fine too. If a new Baron, seedy city, or even whole country is needed at that point, why not. Once the game starts though, players play within the framework and the GM creates the adventures.

And here's what shared narrative types are uncomprehending of. Its the adventure that's the fun. The GM does not get to share in that adventure, he already knows most of whats going to happen. A good group can pull all sorts of rabbits out of their hats, even disregard the whole thing, but the GM still doesn't have any risk. Hes a facilitator and as such is helping others enjoy themselves, losing out on some of the fun in the process. This bizarre concept that you're all puppets dancing for the amusement of one person MISSES THE POINT OF GAMING. Ownership? Its an imaginary world. What do you imagine you're owning?

Pfeh.

Quote from: The Traveller;554957Bollocks. You lose surprise.

No you don't, not in my experience. In fact I would say there are more surprises because you have more minds actively working on creating them.

Quote from: The Traveller;554957You also lose risk when you aren't as invested in your character.

Why wouldn't you be as invested in your character?

You're arguing against a strawman. It's clear to me that you do not understand what you're talking about.

Quote from: The Traveller;554957This bizarre concept that you're all puppets dancing for the amusement of one person MISSES THE POINT OF GAMING.

What on earth? Who said anything like that? See - strawman.

Quote from: soviet;555011No you don't, not in my experience. In fact I would say there are more surprises because you have more minds actively working on creating them.

No. What players have are occasionally good ideas. That's very far from the same thing as first-person surprise. Particularly in those games where you can change anything as long as it suits your whim. And hey, players can have good ideas in non-narrative games too, except they get to enjoy the element of surprise, and hence actual adventures.

Your rejoinder amounts to nuh-uh.

Quote from: soviet;555011Why wouldn't you be as invested in your character?

You're arguing against a strawman. It's clear to me that you do not understand what you're talking about.

Quote from: soviet;555011I would probably say it was some kind of immersion in the act of creating and experiencing the story (as opposed to playing a character and experiencing in-world events).

And now the doubletalk and backpedalling begins.

Quote from: soviet;555011What on earth? Who said anything like that? See - strawman.

Quote from: soviet;555011From the perspective of a third person reading about the campaign after the fact, it probably makes them worse. You gain something in depth and breadth but potentially also lose something in singularity of vision.

But fuck that third person.

You may not be saying that RPGs are a pile of bottom compared to storygames, but I am saying storygames are a pile of bottom compared to RPGs. Take the adventure out, all you have left is a conversation. With that said I also don't enjoy soccer, and think its rubbish compared to RPGs. But I don't go round calling soccer roleplaying either, or talk about soccer on roleplaying forums.

Quote from: The Traveller;555033No. What players have are occasionally good ideas. That's very far from the same thing as first-person surprise. Particularly in those games where you can change anything as long as it suits your whim. And hey, players can have good ideas in non-narrative games too, except they get to enjoy the element of surprise, and hence actual adventures.

Of course players can have good ideas. And the more leeway those players have to express those ideas, the more ideas will come up in the game. More good ideas = more surprises for the other people.

Quote from: The Traveller;555033And now the doubletalk and backpedalling begins.

??? Immersion and investment are not the same thing. You can be invested without being immersed.

Quote from: The Traveller;555033You may not be saying that RPGs are a pile of bottom compared to storygames, but I am saying storygames are a pile of bottom compared to RPGs. Take the adventure out, all you have left is a conversation. With that said I also don't enjoy soccer, and think its rubbish compared to RPGs. But I don't go round calling soccer roleplaying either, or talk about soccer on roleplaying forums.

Why would you take out the adventure? What do you imagine happens in a storygame, exactly?

Quote from: soviet;555046Of course players can have good ideas. And the more leeway those players have to express those ideas, the more ideas will come up in the game. More good ideas = more surprises for the other people.

Two falsehoods there. The first is that more leeway=more ideas. On the contrary, more and better ideas arise in response to challenges that can't be handwaved away. The second is that you're conflating a good idea with a surprise. Surprises can be bad ideas, or good ideas, what makes it a surprise is that you have no control over it. You cannot get "surprise by committee".

Quote from: soviet;555046??? Immersion and investment are not the same thing. You can be invested without being immersed.

Seriously? You're actually trying to divorce immersion in a character and investment in a character? Storygames may run over that from time to time like a bump in the road, but when the focus is on the story, you're losing a lot of character. And almost all of the adventure.

Quote from: soviet;555046Why would you take out the adventure? What do you imagine happens in a storygame, exactly?

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d120/clavdivs/spiderjerusalem-goddammit.jpg)

So you don't have an answer to the facts -> just try repeating yourself?

As I've already said, I do agree that players should all have some input into the world at the beginning, to help flesh out their characters. Further if they don't like a world idea at the beginning, they won't play in it. My group can't handle supers for example, maybe its the spandex. They refuse to budge even in the face of a stunningly charismatic Tony Stark on the big screen.

But storygaming isn't roleplaying, and its not adventure. Its an isometric strategy game where you have all the cheat codes and are encouraged to use them. Which is a perfectly valid way to spend your evenings as as long as you recognise that. Its when people start thinking they're roleplaying when they are actually playing soccer that things get a bit funky.

Hey Rob!

have you checked out the thing Levi Kornelsen was doing? I can't remember the name of the game, but basically you defined the world through chargen. Really sweet!

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;555107Hey Rob!

have you checked out the thing Levi Kornelsen was doing? I can't remember the name of the game, but basically you defined the world through chargen. Really sweet!

-clash

You talking about Awen? I have his situation builder stuff and Oroborous stuff. It's on my inspirations list.

Quote from: The Traveller;555071On the contrary, more and better ideas arise in response to challenges that can't be handwaved away.

What? Who is handwaving away challenges?

Quote from: The Traveller;555071when the focus is on the story, you're losing a lot of character. And almost all of the adventure.

What? Rubbish

Quote from: The Traveller;555071So you don't have an answer to the facts -> just try repeating yourself?

You haven't provided any facts, just a string of non-sequitors and strawmen.
 

Quote from: The Traveller;555071But storygaming isn't roleplaying, and its not adventure. Its an isometric strategy game where you have all the cheat codes and are encouraged to use them.

QED

Okay, lets try it your way.

Quote from: soviet;555351What? Who is handwaving away challenges?

What? Have you ever even played a storygame?

Quote from: soviet;555351What? Rubbish

Absolute tosh.

Quote from: soviet;555351You haven't provided any facts, just a string of non-sequitors and strawmen.

What? Rubbish.

Quote from: soviet;555351QED

LOL

Quote from: The Traveller;555356What? Have you ever even played a storygame?

So you're admitting that you haven't read the thread? No wonder your contribution was so incoherent.

Quote from: soviet;555358So you're admitting that you haven't read the thread? No wonder your contribution was so incoherent.

What? Rubbish.

I really recommend 'The Mountain Witch' for a story-game that has loads of Adventure!


It helps that the mechanics allow the players to narrate elements that the GM doesn't expect (and thus change how each "run" plays out by introducing unique backstory and active plot elements that the GM can then use). Also, depending on how many PCs there are there's a good chance one of the PCs is actually working for the Sorcerer on Mt. Fuji and has joined the band of ronin to sabotage it from within.