So not a big fan of necroing a post, but I would feel remiss not to report we just had a player leave our HoTOE game for reasons directly related to the criticism here. Here's his argumentation as best as I can recall the conversation:

"This game style is not for me. It's a great story with a great setting, but all I'm doing is interacting with it. If there were something we could do to move the needle one way or the other, it would be a campaign worth playing. Despite my cool backstory and list of cool skills, the game is just Murder Hoboing Through Europe."

Ouch. To give some context, this player also plays in the campaign that I DM, which is D&D 5 with a very healthy dose of OSR. I run this campaign as the "world as a simulation," not in a narrative style. So for this player, his criticism is on the mark. He's a busy dude and has a social calendar, so putting something not his style on the chopping block is comes easy for him.

Personally, I'm the type of player that can swim in a narrative-driven, 90's style plot. However, I also prefer an excellent sandbox RPG, a simulation of a fantasy world over other types of RPGs.

So, if evaluating HotOE, keep in mind what players you got. If you have a bunch of guys who go the simulation route, then HotOE is still viable. You need to evaluate each chapter and use the extensive and excellent background material to redesign the adventures. Here the product shines--it's ridiculous the amount of good source material the Keeper gets. That will take an extensive amount of time.

(I'm a player in this campaign, so my observations thus far are incomplete insofar as the overall story from beginning to conclusion.)

If you have Narrative-loving players that can overlook the railroad, well, then, the campaign doesn't require much tweaking on your part. I would say, based on the material I've played in thus far, that some work to smooth over the rougher edges as suggested earlier would be time well spent.

Two asides:

I chuckled over the obligatory PDF pricing commentary. Without looking at the rest of the material I haven't played yet, $60 for a PDF is a direct derivative of "half-off the physical product" type pricing that we also use here at Griffon Lore Games (once our crowdfunding campaigns have ended). With the HotOE 7th Ed version, having someone compile the extensive source material on 1923 Europe alone is worth the price of admission. What other products on the market walk you through 1923 Europe along the Orient Express route with a Lovecraft lense?

Finally, I do feel a bit weird as an adventure designer critiquing someone else's product, but I'm not saying anything I would say to the designer's face(s). It's a great product, and if I hadn't been so caffeine-deprived, I would have snagged the last physical copy at PaizoCon 2019, but I'm glad my partner-in-crime got to it first so I can play in the campaign.

Quote from: Anthony Pacheco;1104460Personally, I'm the type of player that can swim in a narrative-driven, 90's style plot.

This irks me a bit. I know HotOE is 1991 but surely Chaosium has been publishing railroad-y adventures before the 90s - as have others? So is this really a typical 90s thing? And, in fact, I tend to believe that railroady adventures are basically standard adventures, the default, as opposed to sandbox adventures. Or differently put: if a review doesn't indicate that a published adventure is sandbox-y, I presume it's railroad-y.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1104489This irks me a bit. I know HotOE is 1991 but surely Chaosium has been publishing railroad-y adventures before the 90s - as have others? So is this a typical 90s thing? And, in fact, I tend to believe that railroady adventures are basically standard adventures, the default, as opposed to sandbox adventures. Or differently put: if a review doesn't indicate that a published adventure is sandbox-y, I presume it's railroad-y.

Well, the late 90s, early 2000s, yeah?

A lot of those old TSR modules was really sandboxy, and when they weren't had a ton of sandbox stuff you could add. Even Descent which is a "go to point B from point A" had that super DM map in the back with the short description of all those cool places like the "mind-flayer city" and the 20th Level Lich. I fleshed all those out, and my players spent more time crawling around the optional areas then they did following Eclavdra.

But I digress. I admit that I could be wearing Rose Colored OSR Glasses(TM).

As an update I ended up getting Masks of Nyarlathotep instead. It was also very highly regarded and a lot easier to get the hard copy (81$ on Amazon). Maybe I'll try Horror at a later date.

I think you'd have to expect Horror to be something of a railroad, even going past the play on words. That doesn't really bother me. I think some concepts become so taboo that they are automatically considered to be "bad", when they can still work if implemented well enough. Some of my very favorite books are terribly written in terms of their structure.

Quote from: Anthony Pacheco;1104460Two asides:

I chuckled over the obligatory PDF pricing commentary. Without looking at the rest of the material I haven't played yet, $60 for a PDF is a direct derivative of "half-off the physical product" type pricing that we also use here at Griffon Lore Games (once our crowdfunding campaigns have ended). With the HotOE 7th Ed version, having someone compile the extensive source material on 1923 Europe alone is worth the price of admission. What other products on the market walk you through 1923 Europe along the Orient Express route with a Lovecraft lense?

Finally, I do feel a bit weird as an adventure designer critiquing someone else's product, but I'm not saying anything I would say to the designer's face(s). It's a great product, and if I hadn't been so caffeine-deprived, I would have snagged the last physical copy at PaizoCon 2019, but I'm glad my partner-in-crime got to it first so I can play in the campaign.

I appreciate the commentary. It looks like you are just starting out. You've got a couple adventures and 20 YT subscribers. I applaud your entrepreneurship, but I think you've got a ways to go before you are swimming in the same pond as Chaosium.

There is only one (non bundle) adventure on DTRPG that costs more than either Horror or Masks. One. Is it that unreasonable to question if the second most expensive adventure on DTRPG is worth the money? I think its worth discussing.