Quote from: Hastur-The-Unnameable;1035144No, I would not be selling them, spreading the popularity of an old long discontinued game that I really like is more important to me than any petty profit I could make from selling it.

The reason it hasn't been cloned is likely because while the system itself is fine, the biggest draw is the setting, and the way the mechanics if the game represent that setting. Also, the game is French, and French copyright is really screwy, so it's possible the game's mechanics are also covered under the copyright in some way.

I do know that the Fan Made E-zine that still produces and sells content for this game to this day (also all in French) is apparently legal, so it's hard to say for sure.

Would that be Ragnarok?

I thought they had released it in a new edition since?

Then theres Polaris which was supposed to have a new edition but not sure what happened to that either.

Quote from: Omega;1035356Would that be Ragnarok?

I thought they had released it in a new edition since?

Then theres Polaris which was supposed to have a new edition but not sure what happened to that either.

No, I'm talking about Agone. I've followed a french site for it for some time, but every attempt at getting a second edition for it has ended in disaster, with the designers abandoning the project in disgust (in one instance, it got so far as having a publisher agree to fund the project and begin publishing, with all the books set and ready to print, before getting shut down by a minority of the copyright holders).

It never caught on in English... It was released during the height of DND open D20, with no marketing to speak of, and just got lost in the milieu of D20 supplements to the point they just scrapped the translation project before even releasing the English version of the Bestiary (which, to my understanding was also in a "finished and ready to print" situation, but it never made it to the presses).

The thing is though, the French version was, and to some extent still is, extremely popular, they even had an actual second printing run for it after the original company went under and a new company inherited some of the rights. They got out their first batch of new core rule books, just before it got canned by the same minority of copyright holders though...

At this point it just kind of feels like this game is cursed...

Quote from: Hastur-The-Unnameable;1035362No, I'm talking about Agone. I've followed a french site for it for some time, but every attempt at getting a second edition for it has ended in disaster, with the designers abandoning the project in disgust (in one instance, it got so far as having a publisher agree to fund the project and begin publishing, with all the books set and ready to print, before getting shut down by a minority of the copyright holders).

It never caught on in English... It was released during the height of DND open D20, with no marketing to speak of, and just got lost in the milieu of D20 supplements to the point they just scrapped the translation project before even releasing the English version of the Bestiary (which, to my understanding was also in a "finished and ready to print" situation, but it never made it to the presses).

The thing is though, the French version was, and to some extent still is, extremely popular, they even had an actual second printing run for it after the original company went under and a new company inherited some of the rights. They got out their first batch of new core rule books, just before it got canned by the same minority of copyright holders though...

At this point it just kind of feels like this game is cursed...

IP based games are allways cursed. This I know from personal experience.

Agone though is still in stock at Troll & Toad for about 8$

Quote from: Omega;1035393IP based games are allways cursed. This I know from personal experience.

Agone though is still in stock at Troll & Toad for about 8$

Oh yes, I know. But the french stuff never will be...

The sad part is just that the original author is super on board with making his stuff into RPGs, it's just the people from the original RPG company that were able to secure rights to the game itself...

Quote from: Hastur-The-Unnameable;1035414The sad part is just that the original author is super on board with making his stuff into RPGs, it's just the people from the original RPG company that were able to secure rights to the game itself...

That is pretty common actually. The IP and the game system are separate things. Example GraphXpress cant use the RPG I did for their comics. And up till a year ago I couldnt even access my own files as theyd been saved to a now dead system and it took some effort to recover the text files. The image files are formatted in a really weird system that was very specific and thus are lost. But no big loss as it was all simple vector style icons. The creator of Insecta is having a similar problem.

The question of "should people fileshare books" is interesting as a philosophical debate, but ultimately irrelevant in real life.
In real life the question is "can the people who fileshare books be stopped"? And the answer is NO.

So the process of what to do from that point on has to be based on THAT reality, rather than fanciful questions of whether you think it's right or not.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1035767The question of "should people fileshare books" is interesting as a philosophical debate, but ultimately irrelevant in real life.
In real life the question is "can the people who fileshare books be stopped"? And the answer is NO.

So the process of what to do from that point on has to be based on THAT reality, rather than fanciful questions of whether you think it's right or not.

I think an author should make some effort to report direct free links to their product found via simple search engine results.

You don't have to stop piracy to make it just inconvenient enough that people with means do buy the product for their group, if they want it.

Players also love physical books, which can't be downloaded for free.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1035779I think an author should make some effort to report direct free links to their product found via simple search engine results.

Yeah you don't even need a site like Demonoid to find games. Just type "PDF" after the name in the search bar and let Google do the work for you.

Getting illcit links off of Google search is not hard as people think it is. I filled when I noticed a link to a warez site was the one of the top five result.

Same thing as computer games in the 80's. No copy protection, so you could just copy a full game to another disc. I don't know how many bootlegs of Castle Wolfenstein I've seen.

Quote from: The Black Ferret;1035905Same thing as computer games in the 80's. No copy protection, so you could just copy a full game to another disc. I don't know how many bootlegs of Castle Wolfenstein I've seen.

I don't think  RPG PDFs need DRM. I think they should be hard enough to download that you have to go to a sketchy site or get it from a friend.

That can be achieved with just reporting links to Google or Bing.

That way PDFs get roughly one purchase per group playing it. Then followed by book sales.

Quote from: estar;1035236Victor Hugo disagrees. He was a bit of an asshole about his works. In part we can blame our present situation on his advocacy.

I'd say that any merits he has pale in comparison to Disney's contribution;).

Quote from: RPGPundit;1035767The question of "should people fileshare books" is interesting as a philosophical debate, but ultimately irrelevant in real life.
In real life the question is "can the people who fileshare books be stopped"? And the answer is NO.

So the process of what to do from that point on has to be based on THAT reality, rather than fanciful questions of whether you think it's right or not.

Well, for once we agree:D!
Are you thinking about crowdfunding as a solution to this problem as well?

Quote from: estar;1035889Getting illcit links off of Google search is not hard as people think it is. I filled when I noticed a link to a warez site was the one of the top five result.

That doesn't necessarily remove it entirely. Google removes links but then will usually replace it with a warning that they were required to remove it. Google shares those links with Chilling Effects, which would then - yes - keep the link alive and accessible.

The looseness of the allowance for safe harbor makes it an endless game of whack-a-mole, with many sites complying, only for the same links to be reposted again within a few hours.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1035932I don't think  RPG PDFs need DRM. I think they should be hard enough to download that you have to go to a sketchy site or get it from a friend.

DRM for PDFs can be stripped away.

Much like software moving to a rental model, I see PDFs mostly disappearing (except for stuff you explicitly allow people to print, like character sheets), and "books" part of a subscription system that are never really stored in whole locally. The rental model was as least partially, a response to piracy.

Quote from: Lynn;1035952DRM for PDFs can be stripped away.

Much like software moving to a rental model, I see PDFs mostly disappearing (except for stuff you explicitly allow people to print, like character sheets), and "books" part of a subscription system that are never really stored in whole locally. The rental model was as least partially, a response to piracy.

PDFs won't disappear. Someone can always scan the book in and make a PDF.

All not offering PDFs do is annoy honest consumers who want a PDF version.

I generally don't play RPGs unless I can get a PDF version.
Pinnacle Entertainment Group and 3rd parties would be out a decent amount of my money if they didn't offer PDF versions for Savage Worlds content.