I've seen numerous comments, both here and elswhere, that the FR setting has uber NPCs who do the real work, whilst the PCs do all the leg-work and thus end up as playing second fiddle to those NPCs.

I don't see it like that at all. Yes, there are ridiculously powerful NPCs who do get involved in the world-wide plots of Faerun. How does that impinge on the PCs being the centre of the story? I've always seen the scope of FR as being useful to any character level. At low levels, you have NPCs detailed that may be local bandits ot crime lords in a petty town. Mid levels, you have the organisations to contend with, like the Red Wizards, the Zentarim and the Night Masks. You can foil their plans, interfere with cells and generally make a nuisance of yourself. Then at high levels, there are sketched out NPCs who can be tackled. Leaders of those organisations, the group headquarters etc.

If you get to Epic (or very high levels) then you get to interfere with worldwide threats and the uber NPCs. To me, it's a challenge for every level, not cramping the PCs style.

You could argue that the world is so filled in that the PCs making a mark on a significant scale is difficult. Well, to me, that's how it should be in a fully sketched out world. There is a world around them and that world has other people who are important. That importance scale ramps up with the power of the PCs. PCs start as local heroes and 'swords for hire', then progress to local players, maybe national heroes, then into the realms of real movers & shakers. I typically play that progression in any system and game world. I see FR as little different, as a whole, to any other setting. Except it is more fleshed out than most in the NPC adversary/ally department.

To me, that isn't restricting, it's giving me a whole campaigns worth of adversaries and adventures. I think that maybe 2nd edition FR supplements went a bit too far, but 3.0/3.5 FR stuff has got Faerun back on track.

I keep thinking about hauling out the 1st Ed. Forgotten Realms boxed set, a set of simple FRPG rules (maybe D6, maybe Microlite20), and just running.  Nuts to the 20+ years of development, nuts to Elminster, nuts to Drizz't and the Simbul and the novels and "Volo's Guide To Your Mom".  I'm totally willing to look at the FR as a sketch, and start messing with the summbitch on my terms.

I hereby grant it a race of sentient dancing bears.

THERE.  These are ROTWANG!'S Realms!

Report to the detention camps for re-indoctrination.

Quote from: CalithenaReport to the detention camps for re-indoctrination.

Ha!  Come and get me.  That is, if you can defeat...MY TERPSICHOREAN URSINES!

I agree with OHT, and Dr. Rotwang. Sure there is a bunch of uber NPC's. Doesnt mean you have to use them. When the characters are lower levels won't it be appropriate for them to play second fiddle. It seem to me their are NPC of all levels. Besides like Rotwang indicates. Its just a frame work of ideas to be manipulated any way you see fit. Dont like Elminister. Throw'em out. Its your game/campaign. Do what you think is right for you. Right now I am a player (in 3.5) in a really fucked up version of the realms. Its based 2-3 hundred years after a big cataclysm. The gods have left. Lots of knowledge has been forgotten and lost. The continents themselves have been reshaped. Only fragments of places and organizations remain. Its been a fun game so far.

I've seen interesting interpretations done with settings like this such as throwing out the Offical stats and casting Elminster an incessant self-promoter of middling, at best, magical skill. If you have read Harry Potter Chamber of Secrets think along the lines of Professor Gilderoy Lockhart.

Volo would be something like a compulsive liar and drunk that rarely travels past the tavern down the street from his house.

Quote from: blakkieI've seen interesting interpretations done with settings like this such as throwing out the Offical stats and casting Elminster an incessant self-promoter of middling, at best, magical skill. If you have read Harry Potter Chamber of Secrets think along the lines of Professor Gilderoy Lockhart.

Volo would be something like a compulsive liar and drunk that rarely travels past the tavern down the street from his house.

EDIT: Somewhere in my head I have an idea to put in a whole bunch of Elminsters, for a spoof/silly FRPG campaign -- El Meenster, Il Minstore, and cousins Elminstberg and Elminstein.

This is a complaint I often get from some players of mine, regarding playing in licenced settings, as Middle Earth, Hyborian Age and such. They feel that the big story has been told, and they will not be the main characters.

I say bollocks to that. I play some settings because the setting itself. Each setting has some unique qualities that make me like it or not. I don't give a shit about the canon characters, book plots and the like.

My reasons for disliking FR have nothing to do with FR NPCs or plots.

Quote from: ImperatorMy reasons for disliking FR have nothing to do with FR NPCs or plots.

Exactly.

Although I have to say I did not mind the first edition boxed set. It was vanilla fantasy that I could work with...up to a point. There is a blandness there that does not sleep...

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RExactly.

Although I have to say I did not mind the first edition boxed set. It was vanilla fantasy that I could work with...up to a point. There is a blandness there that does not sleep...

Regards,
David R

First edition box set was the best. It's vanilla, but you know what? Vanilla allows   you to put on the sprinkles, add banana, pick either caramel and/or chocolate topping.

Getting that, 45flavors of Funk, super-metaplot-freakshow, and finding out that in the center is full of anchovies....... Well, I think I'd rather build my own.

I'm not a fan on the ONE BIG BADGUY in a setting. Even if there are lots of little bad guys. If the big bad is all by himself, what are you going to do when he's gone? I like my evil spread around.

Now you say it's too vanilla, but what setting for fantasy do you consider NOT vanilla? (Actual question, sarcasm set to 0)

Quote from: NazgulNow you say it's too vanilla, but what setting for fantasy do you consider NOT vanilla? (Actual question, sarcasm set to 0)

Jorune

Tekumel

Tales of Garganthir (sp)

I get that you can add sprinkles on the FR*, but if I wanted something extra on my vanilla I would go for stuff like Earthdawn , Dark Sun or Planescape.

*But T-Willard's take on FR was pretty damn interesting

Regards,
David R

Quote from: NazgulNow you say it's too vanilla, but what setting for fantasy do you consider NOT vanilla? (Actual question, sarcasm set to 0)

Allow me to answer this question

It's a hard question, and it goes strongly on personal preferences. Most of my favourite settings are the ones that defined the genre. I love Middle Earth for its mood, locations... I don't give a fuck about Gandalf. I love Hyborian Age for the visual imagery. I love Glorantha for the strangeness, the mythic quality.

FR has nothing of this for me. It's generic. It has no distinct or prominent features for me. It's bland as turkey shit. Of course, it can make for a lot of good games, but I don't think that the settings is a significant help on that, as is quite like everyone's hombrew, just codified after lots of years and products.

I can, of course, play in FR and enjoy the game, but my enjoyment will deribe of other factors than the setting. And of course, I see how other people may like the setting for qualities I find bland.

Quote from: David R*But T-Willard's take on FR was pretty damn interesting

When the YotZ core books are written up (should be some time this year), I'm going to repeatedly brow-beat him until he writes up his notes on that campaign

YotZ started out life as the notes from Tim's zombie campaign.  Just sayin'...

Do that Hastur. Make sure he writes it all up

Here's the thread I'm talking about:

http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=36408#post36408

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David R*But T-Willard's take on FR was pretty damn interesting

Regards,
David R

Link?

EDIT: You are too quick!!