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So, there is this coming out next year. (//Forbidden%20Lands%20-%20Retro%20Open-World%20Survival%20Fantasy%20RPG)

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It looks like a lot of fun.  A nice, sandbox sort of exploration and conquest game.  By the same people who made Mutant Year Zero (Free League, published in the US by Modipheus) and looking like a fantasy version of that game.

I haven't seen much about Mutant on the forum, but the one thread I've found didn't get pushed to Other Games so I'm guessing it is a "real RPG."

So... how does this look to people?  What can we expect from the company given their publishing history?  What do the bones tell us? *rattlerattle*

They also put out Coriolis and Tales from the Loop. Their games are very much "real RPGs," but I can't say much about MY0. I think it uses a very similar system to Coriolis (which I backed on Kickstarter) but I'm not 100% certain of that. My only complaint regarding Coriolis is that it uses a version of Conan's Doom Pool, which I hate. Other than that the game is pretty good. From what I've seen the production values on Free League's books tend to be pretty good, and there aren't many translation issues.

Reading over the preview, it sounds intriguing. My players love having options like building strongholds. My main concern would be using stickers on the map. That's something I'd probably avoid doing just to keep the option of replaying the game down the line since I'd rather not invest in a bunch of extra maps and stickers.

The legacy function of the map is a concern, but the one that comes with the core set is double sided at least.

Yeah "legacy" is becoming the new pop craze with designers in board games and seems to be creeping into RPGs too now?

What does legacy mean here?

Quote from: RunningLaser;996195What does legacy mean here?

Please, inquiring minds want to know.

For board games, I understand it to mean that results of one session are noted - possibly on the physical components - and then effect later sessions. So, it's board game campaign play.  The usage above is because the stickers amend the map as the world is developed - marking the supplied components of the game.

I've always thought map stickers were a product that should exist.  Makes world building easy while being cheap enough to make new maps affordable.

This looks cool and I will probably check it out.

Quote from: David Johansen;996202I've always thought map stickers were a product that should exist.  Makes world building easy while being cheap enough to make new maps affordable.

That's a really cool thing. I can see pulling out a map years later and building on it again. You don't need stickers and new maps and such, but it's a cool bit.

I have friends who are really into Mutant Year Zero and Tales from the Loop and were talking about this Kickstarter, so I finally checked out MY0.

I've been very impressed. Forbidden Lands will be similar. Here's my impression of MY0 and the components.

(https://talestoastound.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/screen-shot-2017-09-27-at-7-24-48-am.png)

It comes in a Core book of 280 pages, with the back half being devoted to solid procedures on building out Ark and Zone content and running the game. The game uses special dice (which was a turn off to me at first, but they are used in clever ways). You can also get a double-side map (a different map on each side), and a card deck that covers rules, artifacts that can be found out in the Zone, and a Threat to the Ark that is drawn at the start of a session to introduce new problems the PCs have to deal with. (If there's enough going on already the Referee doesn't draw a Threat card at the start of the session.)

The book comes with the two maps inside, so if you have the PDF you could print them. So you don't need the separate map.

You also don't need the special dice. They are three sets of colored d6, in which the 6s mean something specific, 1s mean something specific on two of the colors, and you ignore 2-5. So you could use regular d6s of three unique colors. The thing having dice specifically marked for the game will make "reading" the dice much faster.

You also don't need the card deck. But having rules and powers at hand can, again, make things move faster.


The game starts in an Ark, where the PCs and about 200 other mutated survivors live, surrounded by an unexplored landscape called The Zone. The game has two core elements: exploring The Zone and improving the Ark. Exploring the Zone lets the PCs bring back items to improve the Ark, and improving the Ark makes exploring the Zone easier. Essentially the game is a hex crawl with some politics/domain management attached. (Politics because there are factions in the Ark and the PCs need to make choices and pick their fights in the Ark as well.)

The game is not just rules and GM advice, however. There is background content and a kind of "campaign." The campaign can be, of course, ignored. I don't think of the campaign as a "meta-plot" of any kind (though this might be a matter of taste). But many characters and conflicts are in the this section of the text. But it is really important to keep in mind that MY0 is designed as a low prep game, with tools to generate content on the fly. So there is no railroad. And while the PCs may be trying to find fabled "Eden" out there in the Zone somewhere, it isn't any sort of goal the PCs are supposed to be pursuing. It's one of several mysteries they can pursue f they wish. And, again, one can ignore all the setting material in the book if one wants.

I imagine Forbidden Lands will work in much the same way. There will be a starting point, exploration across a gorgeous map, and then, additionally, the PCs will start a stronghold and do their own improvements on it. There will be a campaign of sorts, whether the one that will come with the bundle, or one the Referee creates on his own. Stickers are there to mark the progress and failures of the PCs, creating a growing record of the campaign.

I'll note I'm all down for this idea. I love having artifacts from play of the maps my Players have made, and I love the idea that we'd be doing that with our game. I'm not concerned with ruining the lovely map... since I want to play the thing. And if we end up with a map full of stickers it means we played it.

What I've seen of MY0 is that the game wants to make it as easy as possible to get up and running the game, as easy as possible to referee, and as easy as possible to get the PCs caught up in exploring and caught up in conflicts. The PCs will drive where they go and what matters to them, but the environment they explore will have plenty of mysteries and new conflicts to delve into if they wish.

I've been so impressed I picked up a PDF of the game, the map, the cards, and bought myself 150 blank d6s of three different colors (50 each) to make my own dice for the game. Like I really want to run the game. And for this reason I'll probably be backing Forbidden Lands as well. I've been very impressed with what I've seen so far.


Also, regarding the map of Forbidden Lands specifically: The map comes with the same map on each side, so one could play through campaigns in the same setting twice, one on each side. (Now, I don't know about you all, but as much as I love playing RPGs I only have so much time -- and there a ton of games and campaigns I want to play. If I played through a solid campaign of a couple of years or more in Forbidden Lands I know I'd consider that a win. I don't know if I'd need to go back and do that campaign again, especially since I have other games I want to run as well!)

Quote from: Anselyn;996201For board games, I understand it to mean that results of one session are noted - possibly on the physical components - and then effect later sessions. So, it's board game campaign play.  The usage above is because the stickers amend the map as the world is developed - marking the supplied components of the game.

Yeah, always felt more of a way to force buy the game again once the current campaign was finished.... if the original map board is all jack-ed up from the campaign.

You can now buy an extra map and a set of stickers for USD6.

What are map stickers?  Never heard the term before.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;996678What are map stickers?  Never heard the term before.

They are stickers. That you put on the map.

From the Kickstarter:

QuoteStickers & Legacy Map: Additionally, should we reach the stretchgoal, we will create custom stickers for key events and adventure sites, and even the graves of killed player characters! Placing the stickers on the game map, you transform it to a living, unique document of your campaign. (The map will be double-sided to allow for replay, and extra maps will be available too.)

Quote from: Skywalker;996676You can now buy an extra map and a set of stickers for USD6.

Since the maps are double sided, that's four times one can play the campaign if you get the second map.

Or just put a clear overlay on your map and you can use it over and over again.

Quote from: Dumarest;996685Or just put a clear overlay on your map and you can use it over and over again.

Without doubt.

There will be two schools of thought here:

1. Why would I ruin a perfectly good map?
2. How awesome is that we are making a record of our adventures permanent?

I can see the logic to both sides.

As for the need to buy the map again (especially since it already double sided) as I noted above, I can't see the need for it. If I get Forbidden Lands I plan to play the hell out of it. Perhaps even on and off amid the other games I want to run for my players.

But how many times will I need to run the same campaign? That is a concern for some. But not for me.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;9966861. Why would I ruin a perfectly good map?
2. How awesome is that we are making a record of our adventures permanent?

The poster maps of Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms had lots of empty space, begging for the touch of a pen(cil) to mark additions. All those magazine adventures and modules had to be set somewhere.

I blame collectors for the current state of mind. We are so used to long(-winded) books full of non-relevant setting info and fluff, layout and production values made for reading (or worse, just to look impressive on a shelf) instead of playing. No wonder everything must stay in pristine condition.
This mindset already destroyed comic books.

Assuming it works similiar as Mutant Year Zero, the map marking isn't needed at all. You record every explored hex on a log sheet. Although MYZ used squares instead of hexes.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;996813The poster maps of Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms had lots of empty space, begging for the touch of a pen(cil) to mark additions. All those magazine adventures and modules had to be set somewhere.

I blame collectors for the current state of mind. We are so used to long(-winded) books full of non-relevant setting info and fluff, layout and production values made for reading (or worse, just to look impressive on a shelf) instead of playing. No wonder everything must stay in pristine condition.
This mindset already destroyed comic books.

And I suggest the the legacy map for Forbidden Lands is an explicit effort on the part of Free League to poke that kind of thinking in the eye.

We played Mutant a couple times and had a blast. It's a great mix of old and new concepts. I'm curious to see how they do fantasy with it.

Though I will miss the community building aspects of the Ark. It seems the Stronghold will be much simpler in comparison.

Quote from: Itachi;996836Though I will miss the community building aspects of the Ark. It seems the Stronghold will be much simpler in comparison.

Interesting. While the community aspects will clearly be lighter, I saw the same potential for gathering resources, making choices about how to spend them, and complications arriving because of the improvements and growth of the stronghold.

From the Kickstarter:

QuoteIf the player characters make it back from the ancient ruins alive, they will hopefully bring gold and other treasures with them. Eventually, they might feel the need to spend that treasure on something lasting - a stronghold of their own.

Having conquered an old castle or dungeon, the player characters can turn it into their stronghold. Using fast and effective mechanics, the players can then develop their stronghold, adding features such as a forge, mill or garden, or stronger defenses.

The stronghold is a place to rest between adventures and a safe haven against the beasts that haunt the land. However, the stronghold needs upkeep and it might also invite the attention of others, looking to steal the player characters' riches.

Many classic fantasy RPGs ran into the problem of player characters becoming filthy rich after much adventuring, not having much to spend their gold on. The stronghold mechanic of Forbidden Lands solves that problem - and creates a slew of new scenario hooks to boot.

So, as far as I can tell, it will generate similar gameplay effects as the Ark-bulding elements from MY0... though they will be different.

Chris, I meant the community building aspect, like the decisions for instituting slavery, cannibalism, democracy, etc. that reflected on the Ark. But then it wouldn't fit the new premise anyway. And the Stronghold will probably bring new and interesting dilemmas and choices to manage, as you say.

So yeah, let's see how this one roll out. ;)

Quote from: Itachi;996844Chris, I meant the community building aspect, like the decisions for instituting slavery, cannibalism, democracy, etc. that reflected on the Ark. But then it wouldn't fit the new premise anyway. And the Stronghold will probably bring new and interesting dilemmas and choices to manage, as you say.

So yeah, let's see how this one roll out. ;)

I agree with all you wrote!

The production values are certainly impressive. But I don't think this would likely be up my alley as a game.

Quote from: RPGPundit;997290The production values are certainly impressive. But I don't think this would likely be up my alley as a game.

That's what my reaction was as well, when my friends first started talking up the Kickstarter. And then I read MY0. I'm not saying the game design is anything you want... but I have been wholly impressed by how clever and clean the mechanics are. (As I noted a couple of days ago I'm so impressed by the rules I've now ordered the MY0 card deck, the Map/Counter pack, and got 150 blank dice to make my own dice for my group. I can't wait to run this game for them.)

If Forbidden Lands is as smart as MY0 it's going to be much more than simply pretty.

Well, they could always send me a review copy.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;997337That's what my reaction was as well, when my friends first started talking up the Kickstarter. And then I read MY0. I'm not saying the game design is anything you want... but I have been wholly impressed by how clever and clean the mechanics are. (As I noted a couple of days ago I'm so impressed by the rules I've now ordered the MY0 card deck, the Map/Counter pack, and got 150 blank dice to make my own dice for my group. I can't wait to run this game for them.)

If Forbidden Lands is as smart as MY0 it's going to be much more than simply pretty.

I'm really impressed with Coriolis. Do you know how similar it is to MY0?

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;997776I'm really impressed with Coriolis. Do you know how similar it is to MY0?

I've been following the talk on the KS and Forums as best I can. (Note: I haven't backed FL yet, because I want to know more about the game and setting before I do.)

The game is going to be built from the MY0 rules, but changes to reflect the themes and needs of a fantasy setting. A quote from the Free League team:

QuoteGreat discussion here. As the theme of Forbidden Lands is closer to Mutant: Year Zero than to our other games, we do plan to keep a ruleset for pushing rolls that is similar to MYZ's. More on this in an update to the kickstarter soon!

By this I think they mean that the setting will be exploring a harsh environment where resources matter and pushing oneself can lead to great success or wearing one's self out.

But also this:

QuoteWe do aim to keep the rules of Forbidden Lands as straightforward and as relevant to the themes of the game as in Mutant: Year Zero and Coriolis.

And this:

Quote@Erzaad: Forbidden Lands is absolutely more than a reskin of Mutant: Year Zero. Some things are similar, but other elements are evolved and quite different (while still sharing the same core engine). Melee combat is one example, the hexcrawl mechanics is another - more on this in future updates! Oh, and lots of cool lore of course!

So, I think more similar to the MY0 rules than Coriolis, but it's own thing as well.


On a side note: The KS has reached $218,000. The next stretch goal is an OGL for the Year Zero game engine, which underlies all three of their current games (Mutant Year Zero, Tales from the Loop, and Coriolis.)

I really like the engine driving Coriolis, so this might be a game worth diving into. Thanks!