This is just a post I am putting up to prove a point. As far as RPGS are concerned, the FLGS died back in 2006. This was the bust of the incredible boom cycle of d20, and the final saturation of the internet into the market place.
As far as the industry is concerned, the FLGS concept is over, and any mentioning of it is just a marketing ploy.
Discuss.
Quote from: gonster;753198This is just a post I am putting up to prove a point. As far as RPGS are concerned, the FLGS died back in 2006. This was the bust of the incredible boom cycle of d20, and the final saturation of the internet into the market place.
As far as the industry is concerned, the FLGS concept is over, and any mentioning of it is just a marketing ploy.
Discuss.
I'll let Ryders know they are just a hallucination.
Ryder's major product line are RPGs?
I haven't been in a gaming store since about 1998, before I went to uni. I don't remember the last time I bought anything from one.
Isn't that when comic book stores died too?
People say "We have to maintain our FLGS, how will the hobby grow?" But the idea of this being a massive hobby for the people of the world is BULLSHIT. It is a hobby now, pretty much the equivalent of model trains.
And this is a great thing.
Now we can just play our games, share notes and products. If you are worried about growing the hobby, it is time to get off our asses and drag in some new blood.
Quote from: gonster;753198This is just a post I am putting up to prove a point. As far as RPGS are concerned, the FLGS died back in 2006. This was the bust of the incredible boom cycle of d20, and the final saturation of the internet into the market place.
As far as the industry is concerned, the FLGS concept is over, and any mentioning of it is just a marketing ploy.
Discuss.
You're forgetting the card game, boardgame and wargame markets, which all require physical space to play in, unlike RPGs which can go online. There's not a FLGS I know of that isn't booked solid for rooms for a wide variety of weekly or monthly events, RPGs are just one of the product types to base a FLGS on.
Comic book stores haven't died yet -- they are just on the downhill slide.
Just like the general admission movie theater.
Our movie theaters are thriving.
Where else can you buy three tickets for $35 and then go in and spend another $30 on food and drinks and get the same level of entertainment? :D
(That's what the three of us spent a couple days ago)
In my experience, this is a loaded proposition. While I'm no world traveller, I've never been to a gaming store that was primarily RPGs. My gaming stores have always shared RPG space with varying proportions of comics, genre fiction, toys/collectibles, board/card/miniature games, and other hobby stuff.
Quote from: CRKrueger;753207You're forgetting the card game, boardgame and wargame markets, which all require physical space to play in, unlike RPGs which can go online. There's not a FLGS I know of that isn't booked solid for rooms for a wide variety of weekly or monthly events, RPGs are just one of the product types to base a FLGS on.
RPGS are barely a product line anymore. If your "FLGS" carries just D&D and/or PATHFINDER, it is not a FLGS.
They only store I know in the area that I would even call a FLGS -- ALL THINGS FUN in Berlin NJ -- basically told me that they would simply order in the new D&D for those customers that ordered it. None would take up shelf space.
Quote from: JamesV;753212In my experience, this is a loaded proposition. While I'm no world traveller, I've never been to a gaming store that was primarily RPGs. My gaming stores have always shared RPG space with varying proportions of comics, genre fiction, toys/collectibles, board/card/miniature games, and other hobby stuff.
Back in 1997 I went into a FLGS and bought WASTEWORLD, KULT, JOVIAN CHRONICLES, HEAVY GEAR, and DEADLANDS and supplements.
It isn't that way anymore.
Quote from: CRKrueger;753207You're forgetting the card game, boardgame and wargame markets, which all require physical space to play in, unlike RPGs which can go online. There's not a FLGS I know of that isn't booked solid for rooms for a wide variety of weekly or monthly events, RPGs are just one of the product types to base a FLGS on.
Truefacts: aside from the demo tables in Games Workshop, I don't know of a single hobby games store here in the UK I've ever frequented that has had space for physical gaming to actually take place in the store.
Quote from: gonster;753213RPGS are barely a product line anymore. If your "FLGS" carries just D&D and/or PATHFINDER, it is not a FLGS.
They only store I know in the area that I would even call a FLGS -- ALL THINGS FUN in Berlin NJ -- basically told me that they would simply order in the new D&D for those customers that ordered it. None would take up shelf space.
I'm fairly positive nearly every FLGS in Colorado (with a couple exceptions) carry more than just D&D and PF.
I still play almost every Sunday at a local game store. There is another group of youngins that play the current D&D Playtest. 40 or 50 other people are playing either Magic, Yu-Gi-Oh, 40K or X-Wing.
They look at us like we were Muslim terrorists.
Comic book stores hit their peak in 1993. Why that year? That was the end of the embossed-foil-saran-wrapped-reboot era. People flooded into comic book stores to buy things like Todd McFarlane's Spider-Man and the "Death of Superman" issue looking to hit the jackpot. The only problem was, those comics were printed in the millions. They were worthless as soon as they hit the stands. Those same people went back to the stores asking what their $2.00 cover-priced comic was worth now. $100? $500? More?? Try 50 cents. That's all she wrote for that era. I think right around 3,000 shops closed within two to three years.
Quote from: Piestrio;753217I'm fairly positive nearly every FLGS in Colorado (with a couple exceptions) carry more than just D&D and PF.
Oh I'm sorry I forgot Edge of the Empire, 40K rpgs, or FATE Core or FAE -- if they still carry them. One of the secrets of later RPG distribution (discovered by Mongoose and barely talked about) is magazine style publishing for RPG lines.
Which means produce a fantastic looking book, charge as much as the market will bare for it, now exactly how many will be ordered and print about 20 more than that number.
Quote from: Endless Flight;753220Comic book stores hit their peak in 1993. Why that year? That was the end of the embossed-foil-saran-wrapped-reboot era. People flooded into comic book stores to buy things like Todd McFarlane's Spider-Man and the "Death of Superman" issue looking to hit the jackpot. The only problem was, those comics were printed in the millions. They were worthless as soon as they hit the stands. Those same people went back to the stores asking what their $2.00 cover-priced comic was worth now. $100? $500? More?? Try 50 cents. That's all she wrote for that era. I think right around 3,000 shops closed within two to three years.
Sure that was the end of comic book stores. They are a few out there, but there hayday is long gone.
I'm not saying the FLGS are all gone. I am sure someone will come up with an example to prove me wrong. And in a way that is good. This is just me exploring an idea I have had and using you guys as a sounding board.
Quote from: Warthur;753215Truefacts: aside from the demo tables in Games Workshop, I don't know of a single hobby games store here in the UK I've ever frequented that has had space for physical gaming to actually take place in the store.
There was one in Scarbrough, although I have no idea if it is still there.
There is a massive store just the other end of my street, but from what I have seen walking past it is all Magic the Gathering rather than wargames/rpgs.
I run V20 over Skype every other week with a crew of entirely new fans, so I am doing my part for the war effort. I plan on running D&D next when it is released for new gamers.
Quote from: gonster;753221Oh I'm sorry I forgot Edge of the Empire, 40K rpgs, or FATE Core or FAE -- if they still carry them.
.
Yup they carry those and the last couple I've been to (in addition to my local shop) all carry more to boot.
How many games do they have to carry to be 'alive'?
First it was any, then it was more than two, now it's more than 5...
Don't know about you but I know of 4 large FLGS's plus several small ones doing fine here in KCMO.
Quote from: Marleycat;753227Don't know about you but I know of 4 large FLGS's plus several small ones doing fine here in KCMO.
Yeah it was rocky for a while and I won't pretend that it's all great and happy now but there has definitely been some rebound in the last couple years.
Quote from: Piestrio;753226Yup they carry those and the last couple I've been to (in addition to my local shop) all carry more to boot.
How many games do they have to carry to be 'alive'?
First it was any, then it was more than two, now it's more than 5...
The goalposts have redshift.
There's definitely something to the proposition that the FLGS is going away - they've been in decline for a while - but there are still a great many of them around, and I can't remember the last time I went in one that didn't have more than two (or five) RPGs. Of course, no FLGS is surviving on RPGs. Then again, I can't remember a time when any did; it's always been about lots of different products.
And every FLGS I frequent will order what you want if it's not stocked which is unlikely given even Burning Wheel is stocked. And you can easily get your store in the network that allows for POD companies like ACKS or Onyx Path.
The main one here has Witch Hunter: The Invisible World, Esteren, GURPS, HERO, RQ6, a ton of SW (the Newtons are locals), christ even a copy of friggin' Hillfolk. The used section has honest to god Sovereign Stone.
Quote from: Piestrio;753228Yeah it was rocky for a while and I won't pretend that it's all great and happy now but there has definitely been some rebound in the last couple years.
Holy Cow, looks like there's a new one in Broomfield that's actually hosting Encounters. Not that close to me, but at least within thinkable distance.
Quote from: Saplatt;753235Holy Cow, looks like there's a new one in Broomfield that's actually hosting Encounters. Not that close to me, but at least within thinkable distance.
If you're looking at total escape games they are pretty nice.
Quote from: Marleycat;753233And you can easily get your store in the network that allows for POD companies like ACKS or Onyx Path.
As an aside, ACKS isn't POD, it's offset printing all the way.
There will always be low-rent spaces in cheap malls where sullen, weird people hunch over their cards, miniatures and other paraphernalia and look up suspiciously when an outsider darkens their doorway. At least that's my experience of FLGS. Then there are a few, well-run destination stores, perhaps one or two of which can be supported in a city of several million.
Of course the OP may be making the point that game stores are not simply not hugely relevant to health of the hobby or the strategy of the industry. It's certainly a moot point, but organised play seems still to continue, powered by the existence of local stores.
Quote from: The_Shadow;753257Of course the OP may be making the point that game stores are not simply not hugely relevant to health of the hobby or the strategy of the industry. It's certainly a moot point, but organised play seems still to continue, powered by the existence of local stores.
Bingo. That is the point I was really making with my chock-full-of-hyperbole post.
Sure I miss having a great FLGS. I wish they never went away. And if you have a true blue FLGS near you, that's fantastic.
But the trend is to see the FLGS go away...
Quote from: gonster;753198This is just a post I am putting up to prove a point. As far as RPGS are concerned, the FLGS died back in 2006. This was the bust of the incredible boom cycle of d20, and the final saturation of the internet into the market place.
As far as the industry is concerned, the FLGS concept is over, and any mentioning of it is just a marketing ploy.
Discuss.
You're full of shit.
TWO local gaming stores locally since 2003.
Both still going strong.
- Ed C.
Quote from: gonster;753261But the trend is to see the FLGS go away...
Is it though?
I know it's common wisdom but I'm thinking back and 10 years ago and 20 years ago I'm coming up with the same rough number of game stores in my area. At least as far as my memory holds.
Sure some have closed, but others have opened and it seems a bit of a wash.
Pueblo has always had one, Colorado Springs has always had 2 or 3, Aurora had 1 and now has 2, etc...
Quote from: Piestrio;753263Is it though?
I know it's common wisdom but I'm thinking back and 10 years ago and 20 years ago I'm coming up with the same rough number of game stores in my area. At least as far as my memory holds.
Sure some have closed, but others have opened and it seems a bit of a wash.
Pueblo has always had one, Colorado Springs has always had 2 or 3, Aurora had 1 and now has 2, etc...
As I said KC metro with Olathe and Overland Park KS (right across the border and considered the metro) jumps the number of major full service FLGS to 6-7 on the conservative side. Basically all within an hour's drive.
Sure I could be wrong -- then I learned something today.
Koltar, I am speaking about RPGs here when I talk about a gaming store. The board is called The RPG Site. I just thought it was assumed. (If I was wrong in this assumption I apologize.) What % of your sales are rpg sales. I am figuring they have dropped off 2014 vs. 2004?
I have no doubt a game store selling board games and trading card games could still exist -- there is one store that I go to that is doing great.
I am talking about stores that sell it ALL and run organized play for WotC and Pathfinder and have most games you can imagine in their library to run whatever other odd game like 1e/White Wolf/Space 1889....card games/Settlers of Catan/Warhammer.... pick it. Only places I personally know are even better are San Francisco, Portland OR, Seattle and Olympia WA. If you want ICE and used stuff Tacoma WA is your goldmine.
Now ask yourself why? Because all of them have either a strong university or military population many times both.
Quote from: gonster;753271What % of your sales are rpg sales. I am figuring they have dropped off 2014 vs. 2004?
I absolutely believe that RPGs make up a tiny part of most stores sales but that's been the case as long as I've been gaming. If it's less now I doubt it really matters to most stores in the long run because it's chump change.
I know for a fact that at my FLGS RPGs fall somewhere below "dice" and "card sleeves" in the revenue department but the owner says it's fairly cheap to keep stocked and makes a lot of his customers happy (and thus returning and buying).
An inflamatory OP that is basically correct. The FLGS in my area (LA) is alive and well, and makes 100% of its money off of board games, miniatures and other things that serve as an obvious 'pivot' from the old business base of table-top roleplaying.
The store I REALLY miss is the original Pegasus in Madison, WI. I'm sure there were a bunch of stores like this, but it is hard to think of a better time and place than the late 70's in the upper mid-west to find first-generation gaming vibe. A bunch of cool SCA geeks who got their hands on a red brick hole in the wall near the main drag down town, and filled it to overflowing with crazy games that were hot off the presses.
Olympia Cards and Comics (http://www.olympiccardsandcomics.com/) (in Lacey, WA a superb of Olympia, WA - South Puget Sound) has nearly every Kickstarter and Indie game I can think of, plus plenty of the main-stream, 2nd-stream and one-offs. They also do comics, board games, card games, miniatures, collectibles...
The RPG section includes a huge "used" section with varying discounts via color-coded stickers. It's a seriously fun place to shop!!
Manhattan has pretty much withered down to the old standby Compleat Strategist. The loss of Neutral Ground was very unfortunate.
I'm not sure I understand the premise of the OP. I can't ever remember going to a FLGS that sold only RPGs. It has always been a mix of hobbies (trains, planes, etc), comics, board games, toys and so on mixed with rpgs.
But there is one north of ATL doing it very right: http://www.giga-bitescafe.com/index.php
This place is packed with war game tables, side tables for card games, and a back room for RPGs.
Best: some genius decided to put a cafe in there that serves GOOD food. We'd go there just to eat, seriously good sandwiches, paninis, and breakfast rolls.
I'm not sure if the FLGS is dead or the smart ones are just figuring out how to cater to customers. And I say despite knowing of another game/ comic store that has been going strong 25 years with bad customer service, maybe luck too.
Quote from: trechriron;753292Olympia Cards and Comics (http://www.olympiccardsandcomics.com/) (in Lacey, WA a superb of Olympia, WA - South Puget Sound) has nearly every Kickstarter and Indie game I can think of, plus plenty of the main-stream, 2nd-stream and one-offs. They also do comics, board games, card games, miniatures, collectibles...
The RPG section includes a huge "used" section with varying discounts via color-coded stickers. It's a seriously fun place to shop!!
That's the one! I knew Gabby when her and Patrick worked in the South Sound Mall at Olympic Comics. She is the best!!!!! I spent whole days in there and spent hundreds of dollars a month at that Nirvana.:)
I was one of many that said to her "You stock it and we'll stop going to Seattle and Tacoma to buy it".
Quote from: gonster;753213They only store I know in the area that I would even call a FLGS -- ALL THINGS FUN in Berlin NJ -- basically told me that they would simply order in the new D&D for those customers that ordered it. None would take up shelf space.
(yawn) I think I've lost count of the "OMG the FLGS is DOOOOOOMED!!" threads I've seen over the years. I saw them in APAs in the late-80s. Most of their creators have based their POV on their favorite local outlet closing shop, and the rest base their POV on their FLGS undergoing one or more of the following trends which -- in their sole and exclusive opinion -- disqualifies the FLGS from being a "G":
* Those Damned Kids And Their Card Games;
* The clientele is devoid of people younger (or older) than the OP likes ... too many (or not enough) piercings, tats or black clothing? Lowlifes or fuddy-duddys, the lot of them; or
* It doesn't stock a high enough percentage of the Right Games: too many of those stupid small-press games that waste space (if the OP doesn't play those), too much of that "corporate" swill (= any game that gamers outside of Internet forums have heard of, if the OP doesn't play
those). None of that Warhammer crap (if the OP doesn't like the 40K crowd) ... etc etc. Nothing too old (if the OP only wants the Latest Edition of Everything) ... or with lots of bins of dusty - and heavily discounted - antiques (if the OP is a treasure hunter).
I'll throw an anecdotal back atcha: of the five FLGSes in Metro Boston in 1978,
each and every one is still in business. Have they changed over the years? Well, for one thing, they weren't 100% tabletop RPG outlets in 1978 either. The Games People Play in Cambridge was principally a traditional "game" store, then as now: fancy chess sets, cribbage, backgammon, card games, puzzles. Strategy and Fantasy World in Boston (the current Compleat Strategist) was heavily into board wargames: SPI and Avalon Hill games, that sort of thing. Hobby Bunker in Malden was (then as now) heavily invested in miniature wargaming. And so on. There are a fair number more now, as well.
And those stores went out of business in the 70s, and in the 80s, and in the 90s as well. The RPGs/bookstore I first bought
Fantasy Trip? Pretty well known place locally, as to that, was out of business by 1982. The FLGS in the town I went to college in 1982? Out of business two years later. Its replacement? Gone by 1989. The two FLGSs I first patronized when I moved to Massachusetts' large western city in the late 80s? One was out of business by 1990, the other was out of business by '95. This has
always been a volatile business.
Y'know, I've
never known a time where I've seen a store that was a tabletop RPG outlet and nothing but. They've
always had some other serious focus: SF/fantasy books, hobby modeling, wargames, miniatures, Eurogames, board games, computer games, CCGs, something.
Quote from: trechriron;753292Olympia Cards and Comics (http://www.olympiccardsandcomics.com/) (in Lacey, WA a superb of Olympia, WA - South Puget Sound) has nearly every Kickstarter and Indie game I can think of, plus plenty of the main-stream, 2nd-stream and one-offs. They also do comics, board games, card games, miniatures, collectibles...
The RPG section includes a huge "used" section with varying discounts via color-coded stickers. It's a seriously fun place to shop!!
That's the one! I knew Gabby when her and Patrick worked in the South Sound Mall at Olympic Comics. She is the best!!!!!
Hell, a new game store just opened in Athens, GA and while I'm pretty sure their money maker is Magic (what game store isn't), and they are still working up stock so their RPG selection isn't that great yet, when I went in last Saturday there were like, 3 tables of people playing RPGs.
Quote from: gonster;753271Sure I could be wrong -- then I learned something today.
Koltar, I am speaking about RPGs here when I talk about a gaming store. The board is called The RPG Site. I just thought it was assumed. (If I was wrong in this assumption I apologize.) What % of your sales are rpg sales. I am figuring they have dropped off 2014 vs. 2004?
I have no doubt a game store selling board games and trading card games could still exist -- there is one store that I go to that is doing great.
I am also speaking about RPGs here.
You seem to think that something must be labeled "RPG' to be sold in connection with an RPG. The miniatures on our wall made by REAPER ? The majority of them are bought by folks using them in connection with either D&d or Pathfinder games...sometimes other RPGs (like SAVAGE WORLDS).
Items I've seen re-purposed by customers for use in Role playing Games:
The game "ZOMBIES!!!" by Twilight Creations was bought because a DM wanted LOTS of Zombie miniature for his D&D game.
Magic the Gathering cards used as illustrations for a campaign.
'HERO CLIX" miniatures have been bought quite often both for 'modern day' RPG sessions and superhero Roleplaying games...
MANY, Many Board games have been bought by GMs because they liked either the playing pieces in it or the 'map board' for use in their roleplaying game.
A Store does not have to have exclusively RPGs to count as an "FLGS". Lots of gamers like to mix up their game parts and pieces - hell even create their own versions of games.
The store I work at has tables for gaming. There are both monthly and weekly RPG sessions going on at the store - same with our main competitor that is barely a 10 minute drive from our location (in good weather and traffic)
I think your assumptions are very off base compared to the reality.
- Ed C.
I have not seen a FLGS that was overly pro-RPG and that's understandable. If you are a store with tables, you want those tables used by people buying the most stuff.
CCGers and wargamers are great customers so their table use is justified. In order to play a CCG, each player needs lots of cards and minis guys need lots of minis.
Boardgamers are good customers so their table use is okay, but you only need one copy of the game for the whole table.
RPGers kinda suck. Half of them buy nothing and they take up tables for hours and hours. They are worth some revenue because they buy high margin stuff like individual minis and dice, but once they buy a core book, they can waste space in your store for years. Not my preferred choice of customer...unless I was selling lots of snacks and drinks.
BTW, the FLGS is far from dead. The good ones have become gaming community hubs and can do quite nicely. If you have a dedicated audience who respects the idea that they buy from you at retail price and you in turn give them a free space to game and a hub for meeting other gamers, then your store can rock.
But those game stores that ran themselves like bookstores have suffered the fate of bookstores.
Quote from: gonster;753214Back in 1997 I went into a FLGS and bought WASTEWORLD, KULT, JOVIAN CHRONICLES, HEAVY GEAR, and DEADLANDS and supplements.
It isn't that way anymore.
It's that way in Leisure Games, Finchley last time I visited. To a lesser extent it's that way at Orcs' Nest, Leicester square.
Arguably two FLGSes in a city of over 8 million is not brilliant, and Leisure Games especially probably makes more money off board games, but they're there.
Quote from: gonster;753221One of the secrets of later RPG distribution (discovered by Mongoose and barely talked about) is magazine style publishing for RPG lines.
Which means produce a fantastic looking book, charge as much as the market will bare for it, now exactly how many will be ordered and print about 20 more than that number.
The secret of Paizo's success! :)
Quote from: S'mon;753343The secret of Paizo's success! :)
I am no fan of Paizo, but hot damn their books look GREAT. I look at the 4e or 5e books in comparison and they just don't compare to the look of the Pathfinder books. Gotta give them kudos.
Oh, and not to mention the other FLGS in my town, which pretty much down one whole side is just RPG books and has been going fine for as long as I can remember.
Quote from: S'mon;753341It's that way in Leisure Games, Finchley last time I visited. To a lesser extent it's that way at Orcs' Nest, Leicester square.
Arguably two FLGSes in a city of over 8 million is not brilliant, and Leisure Games especially probably makes more money off board games, but they're there.
Better than here in Singapore :)
1 shop that has games and a handful (literally of miniatures). Don't think I have seen any RPG stuf fthere at all.
There is a Mtg place above a shop in Geylang where they play and sell some cards.
6 Million people :)
Kinokuniya will probably stock the books though and they do have a comic section that rivals Forbidden planet.
Around here the (F)LGS' are doing ok, I think. All, bar two, has a pretty abysmal selection of actual books, but thrive on Warhammer tables, boardgames and larp equipment.
I never set foot in a FLGS until the late 80s --I got most of my RPG stuff from either a local discount store or a bookstore-- and I'm 100% certain that those FLGS never had the majority of their sales come from RPGs.
Never.
The 80's, while also a time of big RPG expansion, were also the time of the MB Gamesmaster series (Axis and Allies and their ilk) as well as other board games. Based on shelf space alone, those games outsold RPGs. The first FLGS I went to had sand table toy soldiers as their primary sales engine, with board games and RPGs distant second and third products. Even then, I'm not completely sure that their line of model rockets didn't outsell RPGs and board games, and their selection of each was very damned good for an era dominated by Avalon Hill and TSR.
Therefore, the original question involves an invalid premise.
Quote from: S'mon;753341It's that way in Leisure Games, Finchley last time I visited. To a lesser extent it's that way at Orcs' Nest, Leicester square.
Arguably two FLGSes in a city of over 8 million is not brilliant, and Leisure Games especially probably makes more money off board games, but they're there.
Wait, London doesn't have more than two FLGSes, in an international cosmopolitan city of 8 million? (edit: isn't it a metro o f 12 million? I thought Paris was 8 million.)
San Francisco metro has easily over ten that I can rattle off without effort (Games of Berkeley, Eudemonia, Endgame, Black Diamond Games, It's Your Turn, Ronin, Galaxy Games, Game Castle, Gamescape, Gator Games, Channel Fireball... oops, too much, sorry). And that's to count nothing of the coming and goings of GW and WotC mall stores and the like over the years.
And we have two Kinokuniya bookstores, too. (It's where I always had to buy my university textbooks. Also a good excuse to meander Japantown mall and hit the Fillmore for burgers and a show after.)
We're just another metro of 8 million people. What on earth did Games Workshop do to you guys? Shouldn't such a globally important city keep up?
edit: I will give credit where it is due, as London back in the day had more weekly goth nights at clubs than SF, but then we were really the only cities that had more than 8 each. The land that produces Joy Division and Sisters of Mercy must surely receive deference... I wonder if we're tied for Bangra and Dhol? We do have an annual Bangra night at one of our basketball stadiums during basketball season, helps get all the fans moving.
Died in 2006? That's pretty funny. Our local FLGS opened its doors in 2006. :)
Of course, because 90% of sales aren't rpgs it isn't a "real" game store. :rolleyes:
It has a decent selection of rpg material, miniatures, boardgames, cards, and other stuff. There is plenty of room to play games, large miniatures tables and even wargame terrain that can be used free of charge.
Tuesday is D&D night and canned drinks sell for a quarter. We play our AD&D and OD&D games there.
Not too bad for a dead store I think.
Oh, and we are kind of a small town too. Midway between Richmond VA and Washington D.C.
Quote from: Opaopajr;753378Wait, London doesn't have more than two FLGSes, in an international cosmopolitan city of 8 million? (edit: isn't it a metro o f 12 million? I thought Paris was 8 million.)
To be fair, Forbidden Planet has (last time I looked, at least) a reasonably diverse RPG section, though I wouldn't call it a FLGS since games are not its main focus.
There used to be the Model Shop in Harrow-On-The-Hill (suburb on the northwest tip of London where I grew up) which had a great selection of RPGs. Then it vanished.
There used to be Spirit Games near the British Museum, but it was tiny and easy to miss and the RPGs were kept in a disorganised, cramped basement area.
On the whole, between them Orcs' Nest and Leisure Games have got things nicely stitched up. Orcs' Nest location is so conveniently central that more or less anyone near a tube line can get to it. Leisure Games are very reliable at delivering things, and get more or less every significant RPG release in stock with a few exceptions. (For some reason they've not really engaged with Onyx Path's efforts to get their POD stuff on gamestore shelves, for instance.) If you want to go to a store to pick something up directly, you can go to Orcs' Nest. If you want to order something in, you go to Leisure Games (or Amazon, though their RPG selection is patchy these days). If you want to play a game in a store, you're weird because that's not really what we do here. (Local game clubs based out of pub function rooms and other such facilities are more the order of the day.)
QuoteWhat on earth did Games Workshop do to you guys?
Became the dominant RPG sellers in the country, and then abruptly ceased selling anything which wasn't Warhams.
When I was a kid, I bought all my stuff at Waldenbooks. I still fondly remember picking the DC Heroes boxed set off the shelf in 1985 and gasping. How cool is this??? I also remember picking up the second edition boxed set up in 1989 out of another Waldenbooks location. Didn't even expect it. Nothing now can replicate that feeling because we all know what's coming out months or years in advance.
Quote from: Warthur;753392To be fair, Forbidden Planet has (last time I looked, at least) a reasonably diverse RPG section, though I wouldn't call it a FLGS since games are not its main focus.
There used to be the Model Shop in Harrow-On-The-Hill (suburb on the northwest tip of London where I grew up) which had a great selection of RPGs. Then it vanished.
There used to be Spirit Games near the British Museum, but it was tiny and easy to miss and the RPGs were kept in a disorganised, cramped basement area.
On the whole, between them Orcs' Nest and Leisure Games have got things nicely stitched up. Orcs' Nest location is so conveniently central that more or less anyone near a tube line can get to it. Leisure Games are very reliable at delivering things, and get more or less every significant RPG release in stock with a few exceptions. (For some reason they've not really engaged with Onyx Path's efforts to get their POD stuff on gamestore shelves, for instance.) If you want to go to a store to pick something up directly, you can go to Orcs' Nest. If you want to order something in, you go to Leisure Games (or Amazon, though their RPG selection is patchy these days). If you want to play a game in a store, you're weird because that's not really what we do here. (Local game clubs based out of pub function rooms and other such facilities are more the order of the day.)
Became the dominant RPG sellers in the country, and then abruptly ceased selling anything which wasn't Warhams.
That's a good description of the situation here, yup. I didn't mention Forbidden Planet as it's now just a couple shelves in a huge comics shop.
I noticed recently a reference to a games shop in Enfield, but I'm not sure if it's a real one with RPGs & board games, or just M:TG & Warhammer. Certainly Dark Sphere south of the river is just Warhammer/WH40K & its clones (and they drove me out with considerable hostility when I went there with my son to buy minis last year! Not going back).
Overall Orcs' Nest and Leisure Games seem to be doing well; Orcs' Nest through super-convenient location and no-longer-actively-hostile staff since they hired that nice lady some years back. Leisure Games through incredibly brilliant mail order, being very well stocked, bright attractive shop area, and Angus & co are friendly and helpful - though I slightly resent being persuaded to buy
Wrath of Ashardalon to play with a 5 year old when I wanted
Talisman. :D
"Dead?" I don't think so. It was always a niche business. Friends of mine lost their shirts trying to start one as a viable business.
Oh, and that was in the 80s.
Sure, online purchases are convenient and cheap. But it's also very nice to visit a store and browse, socialize and game. A good place to meet local gamers. And a good place to try out new products you otherwise wouldn't have been exposed to.
And let us not forget, a good place for non-gamers to check the hobby out, and for parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles to find presents.
The Compleat Strategist in NY was my first game store; still there. Went to Rider's when I was away at school in Michigan; still there. Hung out at Game Master in NJ for years; still there. My local store is now Aero Hobbies in the Los Angeles area; opened 60 years ago, still here -- also the "home of the Thief" class.
They're not dead as long as you patronize them.
I'm sorry, what is a FLGS? I can only infer from posts that it is a brick-and-mortar RPG store. Is it a chain? Does this stand for something literal - like a chain, or something general?
//Panjumanju
Quote from: flyerfan1991;753367I never set foot in a FLGS until the late 80s --I got most of my RPG stuff from either a local discount store or a bookstore-- and I'm 100% certain that those FLGS never had the majority of their sales come from RPGs.
Never.
The 80's, while also a time of big RPG expansion, were also the time of the MB Gamesmaster series (Axis and Allies and their ilk) as well as other board games. Based on shelf space alone, those games outsold RPGs. The first FLGS I went to had sand table toy soldiers as their primary sales engine, with board games and RPGs distant second and third products. Even then, I'm not completely sure that their line of model rockets didn't outsell RPGs and board games, and their selection of each was very damned good for an era dominated by Avalon Hill and TSR.
Therefore, the original question involves an invalid premise.
Yep. In the boom years of D&D in the early 80s, it was sold mainly in book stores and in hobby and craft shops, behind the cross-stitching and airplane models. I'd like to know when these halcyon days of stores devoted mainly to RPGs happened.
I'm just not a big fan of gaming stores for two reasons, well, three.
1. The nearest game store from me is 40 miles. Gas isn't $1.50/gallon any more.
2. MSRP. Amazon, baby!!!
3. I'm loathe to bring up catpissman again, but I've seen it.
Quote from: gonster;753198This is just a post I am putting up to prove a point. As far as RPGS are concerned, the FLGS died back in 2006. This was the bust of the incredible boom cycle of d20, and the final saturation of the internet into the market place.
As far as the industry is concerned, the FLGS concept is over, and any mentioning of it is just a marketing ploy.
Discuss.
We have several thriving FLGS in our area. Many have adapted to the internet, incorporating it into how they do business. Stores hold regular events ranging from tournaments, games, guest speakers, etc. It has certainly changed a lot in the past twenty years but saying they're dead doesn't match what I see near Boston and the surrounding area.
Someone forgot to tell the owner of my FLGS, the Sentry Box (http://www.sentrybox.com), that his business is dead.
Over 13,000 square feet of retail and gaming space. Absolutely packed on weekends with 50-100 people playing games or shopping. Stocks every RPG book, CCG, euro game, and wargame, in print in the english language. Also has a stock of thousands and thousands of OOP items. Name any RPG book published in the last 15 years and there's good chance they have it on the shelf right now.
Quote from: Opaopajr;753378We're just another metro of 8 million people. What on earth did Games Workshop do to you guys? Shouldn't such a globally important city keep up?
I think one of the issues is that traditionally business rents on high-street stores has been absolutely extortionate over here. Most non-chain shops (regardless of what they sell) seem to only last a few months on average before they fold.
The last dedicated game store I used moved over to operating out of the owners garage and only selling over the internet as it increased profit margins considerably.
All my favorite game stores here died out long ago.
What replaced them were cleaner, brighter, more cheerful places... with owners who didn't really seem particularly interested beyond what sells. Better businesses, worse destinations. No serendipity shopping there, not places to 'hang out'.
I seldom go to them... when I do they're full of CCG and 40K people. Only one of them that I know of has much in the way of RPGs... and few surprises among them. Some host game nights through Meetup but only one I know of (far across town) has in-store RPG play, occasionally.
The comic book stores here seem to be doing well. I was at a couple of them the other day and both had a good number of customers coming and going and buying. A friend of mine had a zombie art show in one last month. They're vibrant places.
One of them has a small bit of gaming stuff in it... not much beyond Pathfinder and some FFG games. The other one has a sign in the front window that they do not carry CCGs, RPGs or boardgames (!).
Really, for any of the games I actively interested in my only choice is online... and none of those games are going to be played in stores either. So the FLGS is pretty much dead to me, personally.
But you play DCC and ACKS as your main games so color me not surprised.
Quote from: Marleycat;753308That's the one! I knew Gabby when her and Patrick worked in the South Sound Mall at Olympic Comics. She is the best!!!!! I spent whole days in there and spent hundreds of dollars a month at that Nirvana.:)
I was one of many that said to her "You stock it and we'll stop going to Seattle and Tacoma to buy it".
It really is a superb store!
Quote from: Baron;753421"Dead?" I don't think so. It was always a niche business. Friends of mine lost their shirts trying to start one as a viable business.
Oh, and that was in the 80s.
Sure, online purchases are convenient and cheap. But it's also very nice to visit a store and browse, socialize and game. A good place to meet local gamers. And a good place to try out new products you otherwise wouldn't have been exposed to.
And let us not forget, a good place for non-gamers to check the hobby out, and for parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles to find presents.
Very true. Most of the stores in my area are pretty diverse. The two largest ones do more than RPGs, namely The Hobby Bunker doing militaria, historicals and model kits and Pandemonium Books & Games doing used books and CCGs.
The shop I usually patronize, Toys N Things, does mostly Magic and Yugioh. It has a Warhammer section which one owner insists "is selling" but really isn't. The two reasons I don't get a lot of my RPG purchase fix from him is because (1.) he won't actually order it and (2.) I don't have much money to buy regularly anyways.
QuoteThe Compleat Strategist in NY was my first game store; still there. Went to Rider's when I was away at school in Michigan; still there. Hung out at Game Master in NJ for years; still there. My local store is now Aero Hobbies in the Los Angeles area; opened 60 years ago, still here -- also the "home of the Thief" class.
They're not dead as long as you patronize them.
That's cool! I occasionally go to the Compleat Strategist in Boston when I can. It's been there for decades and, in spite of a move, is still going. Dunno how strongly but I try to support them when I can.
Quote from: Marleycat;753502But you play DCC and ACKS as your main games so color me not surprised.
What do those acronyms stand for, anyways?
Adventurer Conqueror King System and Dungeon Crawl Classics.
I think "pure RPGs" FLGS are dead indeed, but weren't they kind of since the very beginning, except the brief bubble of novelty?
FLGS with board games, RPGs, miniatures, card games - the whole tabletop hobby lot - are well and thriving, even in shitty Polish economy. The ones I've seen fall were those who decided to specialise in their owner's particular interest.
According to the Wizards Play Network - Store and Event locator there are thirty game stores within 30 miles of downtown Minneapolis/Saint Paul. I have been to most of the stores on the list and, as I recall, many of them do have a decent if not exhaustive selection of RPGs. Expanding the search to include outlying areas like: Saint Cloud, Mankato, and Rochester (90 miles from downtown) brings the FLGS count to just shy of fifty!
Quote from: Marleycat;753522Adventurer Conqueror King System and Dungeon Crawl Classics.
Thank you!
Quote from: S'mon;753399That's a good description of the situation here, yup. I didn't mention Forbidden Planet as it's now just a couple shelves in a huge comics shop.
That's about what we have in Aberdeen, except with fewer shelves and a smaller comic shop.
Oh, wait, no! Our Forbidden Planet had a few dice polysets, last time I was there.
(A few years ago, I actually went to every RPG shop in Scotland - there aren't many! They all seemed quite nice. A man gave me a d10!)
Purely anecdotal. Most of the FLGS around Dallas are ho-hum, and slowly dying...
but there is one that has been growing and growing. It has taken over an entire Albertson's Grocery Store that was vacant in a very busy lot. And that store is *PACKED* every weekend.
They do a TON of outreach. Comics, nerdery, gaming, dedicated gaming area. Separate dedicated card and boardgaming area. Hosts their own mini-conventions. It's called Madness Comics and it's possibly one of the greatest gaming stores I've ever seen. It's fantastic.
http://www.madnessgames.com/
It has to be experienced if you're a gamer/geek and in the region.
Quote from: Marleycat;753502But you play DCC and ACKS as your main games so color me not surprised.
Was that directed at me? Nope... these days the main game I play is Pathfinder (not my first choice...) and the system I normally run is BRP/Magic World... with bits from various siblings.
DCC and LotFP are the OSR games I run occasionally for some friends online.
Quote from: Simlasa;753546Was that directed at me? Nope... these days the main game I play is Pathfinder (not my first choice...) and the system I normally run is BRP/Magic World... with bits from various siblings.
DCC and LotFP are the OSR games I run occasionally for some friends online.
I misunderstood then when you were speaking of them. Sorry about that.
Quote from: Marleycat;753548I misunderstood then when you were speaking of them. Sorry about that.
It's understandable because they're the only games that seemed relevant to me in a thread about OSR/D&D stuff, so they're the only ones I mentioned.
The last RPG thing I bought at an FLGS was a quickstart thingie for the newest version of Mutants and Masterminds... several months back.
For those that didn't know....
The acronym "FLGS" stands for:
Friendly Local Game Store.
The acronym or term has been popularized in the magazine(comic) "Knights of the Dinner Table".
- Ed C.
Quote from: MonsterSlayer;753304Best: some genius decided to put a cafe in there that serves GOOD food. We'd go there just to eat, seriously good sandwiches, paninis, and breakfast rolls.
Honestly, that's probably the best way to monetize RPG players. We probably spend less on stuff compared to CCG/etc. players, but the two things we need are space and food.
Quote from: Jacob Marley;753526According to the Wizards Play Network - Store and Event locator there are thirty game stores within 30 miles of downtown Minneapolis/Saint Paul. I have been to most of the stores on the list and, as I recall, many of them do have a decent if not exhaustive selection of RPGs. Expanding the search to include outlying areas like: Saint Cloud, Mankato, and Rochester (90 miles from downtown) brings the FLGS count to just shy of fifty!
The Twin Cities is one of the geekiest areas in the nation, and is one point on the axis between here and Lake Geneva wherein TRPGs still thrive. We're an outlier.
I honestly think FLGS are more service than retail industries. Monetized space for food and internet is easier than trying to pack the place to the rafters with product, especially in the age of easy online shopping. Granted having representative product, like a sprinkling of each, is useful to keep people coming in, particularly during the holiday rush. But the recurrent cash that keeps the lights on during the summer is gonna be the service, not the retail.
edit: Black Diamond Games has a blog that is really interesting on the skinny of FLGS. Very personal diary, business theory, and general good practices.
I have found that the VAST majority of gaming done at any FLGS has little to do with RPGs. It's all cards and minis, with boardgames at some being big. Even though my last game (Tuesday nights) was at an FLGS, when I couldn't show up to that game anymore due to a scheduling conflict and offered to run a game on Thursday-Saturday night, I was politely told, more or less: "Nope, the card/war/board gamers are here on those nights."
The entire space for RPGs at this store is about a yard of shelf, though they will gladly order anything in for you. If they have it on their shelf, I do buy it from them, but Amazon special orders it to my front door, so sorry FLGS.
This is a very clean and bright place and the staff are great, but RPGs are absolutely NOT on the list of primary attractions for them. This has been more or less true for the vast majority of shops I've been in for the last 30+ years (of those that had game space, most were comic/book/toy stores otherwise).
Quote from: Jacob Marley;753526According to the Wizards Play Network - Store and Event locator there are thirty game stores within 30 miles of downtown Minneapolis/Saint Paul. I have been to most of the stores on the list and, as I recall, many of them do have a decent if not exhaustive selection of RPGs. Expanding the search to include outlying areas like: Saint Cloud, Mankato, and Rochester (90 miles from downtown) brings the FLGS count to just shy of fifty!
I know there are other stores, but whenever I pay a visit to the Twin Cities, like last Friday, I pay a visit to The Source Comics and Games, and find something worth a purchase.
Humble Fargo has a couple nice FLGS, but only one is particularly thriving, and it is primarily about card/board/mini gaming.
Quote from: Opaopajr;753641. Granted having representative product, like a sprinkling of each, is useful to keep people coming in, particularly during the holiday rush. But the recurrent cash that keeps the lights on during the summer is gonna be the service, not the retail.
As an aside my FLGS owner says that December is easily one of his worst months. He blames it on geeks being hard to shop for and his customers spending money on everyone else's (nongeek) gifts.
He assumes they get money though because January is one of his stronger months.
Quote from: Piestrio;753664As an aside my FLGS owner says that December is easily one of his worst months. He blames it on geeks being hard to shop for and his customers spending money on everyone else's (nongeek) gifts.
He assumes they get money though because January is one of his stronger months.
I've spoken with the owner of one of my local FLGS recently (no, not the one that Koltar works at), and he says the same thing. December is hard because of the people wanting mass market games for relatives, but January is great because of the people buying games with their Christmas money.
Quote from: Spinachcat;753346I am no fan of Paizo, but hot damn their books look GREAT. I look at the 4e or 5e books in comparison and they just don't compare to the look of the Pathfinder books. Gotta give them kudos.
Certainly the quality of their interior art is the best the hobby's ever seen -- a lot of the artists have devART accounts where they've liberally posted their Pathfinder works, and I've happily stolen them for NPC sheet clipart, en masse.
Quote from: Spinachcat;753340BTW, the FLGS is far from dead. The good ones have become gaming community hubs and can do quite nicely.
Like my FLGS, for instance. It's right in the downtown, on the main drag. Large, brightly lit, friendly atmosphere, kids feel welcome. Three large gaming tables in the back, CCG and Warhammer tournaments more than anything else, snacks and drinks sold. But the wares? A lot of Eurogames, a lot of traditional board games, a good sized dart section for the area's dart enthusiasts. There's a RPG section, and it's not bad, but it's no more than a percentage of sales. And that's cool.
I think it is more accurate from what I have seen both in the US and Finland that the old FLGS is dead.
The poorly stocked, barely staffed dingy yellow dive full of sweaty neckbeards glaring like morlocks at any who dare enter their self-appointed exile space, that place is gone or dying. The one where the F part of FLGS was always more ironic jest than literal descriptor, because if you weren't male and into exactly the game the owner or the residents were into you were more or less made explicitly unwelcome.
The new FLGS though? The ones that are built to be gaming and nerd Meccas, accepting to all who seek the faith, regardless of taste, experience, interest, or gender, those seem to be doing quite well. Booming in fact.
Imagine that: if you don't make your business hostile to perceived 'outsiders', people will want to go to your place just for the experience of it.
There were never stores that survived dedicating themselves solely to one interest, but bringing it all under one roof and making it a welcoming space to any of those interests can create a pretty great thing, and people respond to that.
The FLGS was always about creating a social space. It is never gonna compete with Amazon, but that's not really the point, anymore than the point of a bar is to compete with the liquor store, or the point of a restaurant is to compete with the grocery store. They're never going to win on value, but they will win by being a place people go to in order to have experiences they can't have at home.
What I have seen is that there's a new generation that gets that, and an old generation who doesn't, and still thinks its good enough to keep milking the same dwindling assortment of social malcontents.
The latter is dead. The former gives me hope there's a future.
I think by the exceedingly strict definitions some are operating under here, I have never actually in my entire life been in an "FLGS". Even 25 years ago, almost all gaming stores I recall were likely to do more sales in Comic Books and merchandise than actual RPGs.
RPGPundit
Quote from: J Arcane;753708I think it is more accurate from what I have seen both in the US and Finland that the old FLGS is dead.
The poorly stocked, barely staffed dingy yellow dive full of sweaty neckbeards glaring like morlocks at any who dare enter their self-appointed exile space, that place is gone or dying. The one where the F part of FLGS was always more ironic jest than literal descriptor, because if you weren't male and into exactly the game the owner or the residents were into you were more or less made explicitly unwelcome.
The new FLGS though? The ones that are built to be gaming and nerd Meccas, accepting to all who seek the faith, regardless of taste, experience, interest, or gender, those seem to be doing quite well. Booming in fact.
Imagine that: if you don't make your business hostile to perceived 'outsiders', people will want to go to your place just for the experience of it.
There were never stores that survived dedicating themselves solely to one interest, but bringing it all under one roof and making it a welcoming space to any of those interests can create a pretty great thing, and people respond to that.
The FLGS was always about creating a social space. It is never gonna compete with Amazon, but that's not really the point, anymore than the point of a bar is to compete with the liquor store, or the point of a restaurant is to compete with the grocery store. They're never going to win on value, but they will win by being a place people go to in order to have experiences they can't have at home.
What I have seen is that there's a new generation that gets that, and an old generation who doesn't, and still thinks its good enough to keep milking the same dwindling assortment of social malcontents.
The latter is dead. The former gives me hope there's a future.
I would say J Arcane pretty much nails what I've witnessed in Northeastern Oklahoma. If you were dark, dingy and exclusive, everyone left to go play at a brighter, friendlier store.
Hell, my FLGS only excludes folks on the merits of things like hygiene and general cleanliness.
That is, they expect you to not smell like catpiss, and you will be asked to leave if you do.
Our FLGS is fairly lively, but make no mistake: it's primarily a Magic: The Gathering store, with Boardgames and RPGs being a near afterthought. But they do have multiple events for boardgames and RPGs every week (and this doesn't seem that unusual here in MD: two to the next closest non-comic-store FLGSes have similar arrangements. I am taking arrangement as fairly typical locally.
Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;753637The Twin Cities is one of the geekiest areas in the nation, and is one point on the axis between here and Lake Geneva wherein TRPGs still thrive. We're an outlier.
Mm, but we really don't know: the nuts and bolts of the gaming industry are famously opaque, and I don't think there's
ever been a credible, independent study of where gaming stores are, with what longevity and in what numbers. Is there a rhyme or reason to their location? What exactly constitutes a "gaming store" anyway? (The Boston Borders, when it was still in business, had a whole aisle devoted to RPGs, more volume than I've seen in some FLGSs.)
Quote from: J Arcane;753708The poorly stocked, barely staffed dingy yellow dive full of sweaty neckbeards glaring like morlocks at any who dare enter their self-appointed exile space, that place is gone or dying. The one where the F part of FLGS was always more ironic jest than literal descriptor, because if you weren't male and into exactly the game the owner or the residents were into you were more or less made explicitly unwelcome.
And quite unfamiliar with the concept of "retail store." I've an anecdote.
After moving back to the Boston area in 2000 after over a decade elsewhere, my fiancee a couple years later cajoled me into getting back into tabletop. As part of my outreach, I found the online forum the Boston Compleat Strategist branch had going (damn near moribund then, but). I duly registered, said that I was interested in running a game, and responded, when asked by the then-owner whether I was familiar with the place, that I'd been a patron going back to the 70s.
He immediately went all fanboy over me: I must be "wise in the lore" of Renowned Owner Of Old X, and of all the great campaigns played by Awesome FLGS Groupies Y, Z and Q, and all manner of store history and culture.
Errr ... no, I replied, I never viewed the place as a clubhouse; what I did was go there to buy stuff. I never played in a game in the back, I never knew the name of the bloke behind the counter, I never hung there like a barnacle. I browsed stuff, and sometimes I bought stuff, and the bloke behind the counter wrapped it up and took my money, and I bid him good day and hit the road.
That was the last anyone on that forum spoke to me, and I stopped bothering after a couple weeks. Heaven knows why they bother to keep paying to have the website up, because it hasn't been updated in several years now.
I think there's a number of outlier "pockets" were the RPG hobby is just much stronger than elsewhere; not just in North America, either.
I live in the sticks in north-central Florida, and nowadays, unless I want to drive fifty miles, I have to order off the internet.
In the late 90s, however, it was a fucking golden age. In Gainesville, there was Megacomics, Novel Ideas, Border's, B&N, Waldenbooks, Media Play, and B. Dalton. They all stocked 2e, plus various other stuff. Solid gold. Every one except B&N is gone, and B&N doesn't have much in the rpg section nowadays. A shame. It's cheaper and easier to order from Amazon or wherever, but I miss the experience of walking into a store and making a selection.
Quote from: Ravenswing;754575Mm, but we really don't know: the nuts and bolts of the gaming industry are famously opaque, and I don't think there's ever been a credible, independent study of where gaming stores are, with what longevity and in what numbers. Is there a rhyme or reason to their location? What exactly constitutes a "gaming store" anyway? (The Boston Borders, when it was still in business, had a whole aisle devoted to RPGs, more volume than I've seen in some FLGSs.)
And quite unfamiliar with the concept of "retail store." I've an anecdote.
After moving back to the Boston area in 2000 after over a decade elsewhere, my fiancee a couple years later cajoled me into getting back into tabletop. As part of my outreach, I found the online forum the Boston Compleat Strategist branch had going (damn near moribund then, but). I duly registered, said that I was interested in running a game, and responded, when asked by the then-owner whether I was familiar with the place, that I'd been a patron going back to the 70s.
He immediately went all fanboy over me: I must be "wise in the lore" of Renowned Owner Of Old X, and of all the great campaigns played by Awesome FLGS Groupies Y, Z and Q, and all manner of store history and culture.
Errr ... no, I replied, I never viewed the place as a clubhouse; what I did was go there to buy stuff. I never played in a game in the back, I never knew the name of the bloke behind the counter, I never hung there like a barnacle. I browsed stuff, and sometimes I bought stuff, and the bloke behind the counter wrapped it up and took my money, and I bid him good day and hit the road.
That was the last anyone on that forum spoke to me, and I stopped bothering after a couple weeks. Heaven knows why they bother to keep paying to have the website up, because it hasn't been updated in several years now.
I never knew the name of the guy behind the counter at the Complete Strategist either. I did, however, shop there in Boston hundreds of times over the years. They moved to somewhere on the Red Line.
Never knew they had a forum.
Quote from: gonster;753198As far as the industry is concerned, the FLGS concept is over, and any mentioning of it is just a marketing ploy.
I agree with others that RPGs are just one aspect of what you have in a game store; but there's also a "macro" transformation that's been happening from about that time in retail in general for quite some time.
Easily portable products have been moving online for some time.
Anything digital is online; the more sales that are generated off of digital content, the less important mass produced items become.
While you can buy a car online or major appliances, they are among certain products that some people want to have a showroom experience with. Same with clothing - products that you typically want to (but don't have to) experience. But even those, you can still test a demo version and then order - and that's a part of the showroom / catalog experience that's been around 100+ years.
Quote from: Piestrio;753217I'm fairly positive nearly every FLGS in Colorado (with a couple exceptions) carry more than just D&D and PF.
Er....
We have three here in FT. Collins, which is like 3rd in population for the state, I think, and I think one of stores has some Savage Worlds stuff on top of the DnD and PF. The other is all boardgames all the time with like one small, extremely well hidden shelf in a difficult to access, poorly lit part of the store , that has PF stuff on it and some old, used DnD stuff. Of the two the former sells comics, the latter is like a cafe. The sad thing is there are much better cafes, and we have a much better (really, it is a couple orders of magnitude of difference) comic store. The third literally has so little inventory of anything (I think they have a few PF books) that I think they are not really trying to make money. I think the dude who owns the big video rental place next store just rents that place out to game in- or something.
The last product I bought at an LGS was True20, when it first came out. That was during the D20 boom. Those were good times, I actually had to choose what to buy from several options as opposed to sighing and walking back to the car after 30 seconds.
The B&N has the best selection in town, I think, but that has been shrinking.
I think FLGS might be a viable business these days, but it is not one that has anything to do with me.
Quote from: Bill;759829I never knew the name of the guy behind the counter at the Complete Strategist either. I did, however, shop there in Boston hundreds of times over the years. They moved to somewhere on the Red Line.
Never knew they had a forum.
201mass.com, for what it's worth.
Actually, not out on the Red Line -- they're out near BU, back by Comm Ave, in a teensy cubbyhole (significantly
smaller than before) at the end of tortuous passages. They were soured on Mass Ave partially because of a nasty armed robbery that took place after hours when they were having a gaming session in back, followed by losing their lease, but God alone knows how they sell enough to stay afloat back there.
I'm not sure it's a measure of anything but yesterday I was looking for any local games stores participating in Free RPG Day and there weren't any... not just in my city but in the entire state. Which I guess isn't that surprising.
Quote from: Ravenswing;759906201mass.com, for what it's worth.
Actually, not out on the Red Line -- they're out near BU, back by Comm Ave, in a teensy cubbyhole (significantly smaller than before) at the end of tortuous passages. They were soured on Mass Ave partially because of a nasty armed robbery that took place after hours when they were having a gaming session in back, followed by losing their lease, but God alone knows how they sell enough to stay afloat back there.
Green line maybe? It that the place where you can't really see the sign for the store from the street, and its hard to even find the store once you enter the main building?
I remember going to Fat Cat Books in Johnson City, NY (now Fat Cat Comics (http://www.fatcatcomics.net)) several months after getting my copy of Holmes Basic. Bought my first issue of Dragon there (#44, the December 1980 issue). Even then the store was as full of war-games and SF/fantasy novels as it was of RPGs.
Quote from: Bill;760457Green line maybe? It that the place where you can't really see the sign for the store from the street, and its hard to even find the store once you enter the main building?
Pretty much. The way I figure, if I have to do a safari in order to reach a cramped, dank FLGS, I'm going to go on Amazon, pay two-thirds as much for twenty times the selection, and spend less time and fuss doing it.