Do you think there'd be interest in an RPG where the PCs are firefighters?
Frankly I'm kind of surprised Clash hasn't made one yet. I guess since they don't have planes or boats...
No. But I always thought a paramedic or rescue type RPG might have some appeal. Maybe mixed with Sci-Fi. One of my favorite SF series is Sector General by James White, which is largely about a hospital ship that responds to starship mishaps and the like.
However, I think it requires too much player knowledge of medicine and rescue.
I'm not sure about an RPG. Maybe for a one shot or a few adventures but I couldn't really see a campaign, as it could get repetitive. Now if it was done like a war game, that might have some appeal, where one player is the fire fighters and the other the fire.
It sounds like a better board game than an RPG. One of those board games with randomized tiles so that it's different every game.
It might be doable, but you'd have to put alot more time in to adventure design--how to set up burning buildings to run sort-of like dungeons. You could "fight" fires, "battle" doors in the way, rescue children (comparable to treasure)...something there.
But how would leveling work? Move a bit faster, better resistant to fire, handier with an axe, or a hose. Man, I'm already seeing a rough way to translate the classes and equipment.
Would it sell? Only if it were called D&D: The Fire Fighting Game.
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;1028515It sounds like a better board game than an RPG. One of those board games with randomized tiles so that it's different every game.
That's why I suggested a war game. You have different units like firefighters including maybe ones for individual officers, unless you scaled it like Avalon Hill's Gunslinger which was basically the same scale as an RPG using a hex grid. But maybe having a more traditional war game scale with more experienced leaders having their own units, then you could have units for things like Fire Trucks, Ambulances, Police Cars, Fires. Especially Fires. Fires everywhere. The thing is, you could totally hide an RPG in there OR add RPG rules in as an appendix, kind of like how Battletech has Mechwarrior. But OSR. Use something like 1e Battlesystem as a template, and then add the OSR elements to it which is completely the reverse of how AD&D and Battlesystem were developed but the nice thing about making something OSR is that you can streamline it all you want and boil down the essentials into your war game.
You would probably need several maps. Especially for things like office buildings which have several floors, unless you want to be daring and go with a side view, like some sort of platformer. This would have to have more abstract encounters since you would have linear movement. The other option would be to have several floor plans for different buildings. Using a random encounter table, you could use the same floor plan several times for different floors and each floor would be different. You might want to have special counters for hazards inside the building, like compromised floors that drop you onto fire because that's why the floor is compromised in the first place. Or counters for smoke because suffocation is very real. Or counters for burning debris that falls on top of you. Not to mention counters for things which may randomly explode from heat. And counters for areas of extreme heat, like if you are completely surrounded by fire but not actually in the fire you might get cooked anyway because you're basically inside of an oven.
Of course, much of the firefighters would be situated along the outside of the building. They might be worried about things other than the fire. Like windows exploding out, and falling glass, and other falling stuff some of which is on fire. Some of those falling objects may be people who are trying not to burn to death. Oh yeah, you totally need counters for civilians to rescue. And pets. Especially pets. The civilians could even have move rates, so they can run into the burning building to save a child or pet.
With a war game, you basically have the base elements for an RPG, which is where they came from in the first place. Mind you I guess you could just play Flash Point: Final Rescue (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/100901/flash-point-fire-rescue) but a war game can be supplemented with RPG rules so you have the option of running a campaign. Plus if it was an OSR, then it has the added benefit of being able to be ported to others OSR or old school RPGs.
The neat thing is you could expand it out to other genres. Police. Criminals particularly arsonists. Paramedics. Hospitals. Then when everyone least expects it, toss the war game, put all the RPG supplements together and BOOM you have a Modern Authentic RPG. :D
Quote from: Doom;1028518You could "fight" fires, "battle" doors in the way, rescue children (comparable to treasure)...something there.
My initial knee-jerk reaction was "no" until I read this. As odd as it sounds, maybe this could work. As Doom suggested, fires could become monsters of some sort with HD and such based on the size of the blaze. Various types of fires (chemical, oil-based, whatever) might be more resistant to certain types of attacks (water, extinguisher, sand, dunno). I don't know enough about fires and putting them out to come up with "realistic" examples, but there could be something there, particularly if you included bomb squads diffusing bombs or some such. It might have to be a more broad police-fire-SWAT type thing.
I'd be wary of such a game, because it would almost certainly try to capture the feel of TV shows focused on firefighters, and that means relationships and angst over action. That tends to lead to "narrative mechanics" games that I would rather avoid. This also applies to other ideas, like police stories or hospital/medical dramas.
There is a Fate game that does that already.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1028551I'd be wary of such a game, because it would almost certainly try to capture the feel of TV shows focused on firefighters, and that means relationships and angst over action. That tends to lead to "narrative mechanics" games that I would rather avoid. This also applies to other ideas, like police stories or hospital/medical dramas.
There was the MASHED (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/504288855/mashed-a-korean-war-mash-rpg) RPG. I think it did exactly that.
My take on "narrative mechanics" games is that they are fine for 'game night' activities where they are up against board games in the 'what will we play?' competition, and not up against TTRPGs. But frankly, for this type of game, I think Charon's Little Helper's suggestion of a random-tile board game would actually do this better.
Quote from: JeremyR;1028504No. But I always thought a paramedic or rescue type RPG might have some appeal. Maybe mixed with Sci-Fi. One of my favorite SF series is Sector General by James White, which is largely about a hospital ship that responds to starship mishaps and the like.
However, I think it requires too much player knowledge of medicine and rescue.
Plenty of cyberpunk RPG's suggest this as a campaign theme. Cyberpunk2020's Trauma Team is perfect for an intimate and intense game as first-responders. Ironically it uses all the tropes of the genre and the game's classes. Requires PR, medi-tech skills, solos and cops for security, fixers for "procurement" when certain things run low, technicians to keep all the gear running (especially the transports and their weapons/armor etc). Corporates for running the business and dealing with the inevitable intrigues from competitors etc.
There's no reason you couldn't have something like this... but a lot of conceits would have to change.
There are already popular board games on the subject:
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/100901/flash-point-fire-rescue
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/218050/hotshots
I find the subject of allocating resources and men to challenging fire fighting situations interesting to me, especially if/when it feels fairly realistic and simulation-y rather than contrived and over-personalized. I don't know how much roleplaying I would want to include, and I wouldn't want to sacrifice having the mechanics be about right (realistically speaking) to the demi-god of "players want their PCs to be highly significant and powerful and to be always improving and doing cool cinematic and dramatic things" or whatever.
I don't really want to roleplay a firefighter personality, but I am interested in fighting fires and the tactics of it, and I'm happy if the people are modeled as people.
There are some boardgames. Flashpoint is a recent award winner.
As for an RPG. It seems somewhat limited in scope and more suited to, GASP! a storygame. I could see it working well with Fiasco, Fate, etc.
It would also probably work well with a system like BESM, Mythic or FU which can cover well stuff like that. Probably Gurps too.
As for more traditional RPGs. Beyond the Supernatural and Call of Cthulhu are two that come to mind for RPGs that could be used to run a Firefighter campaign with no supernatural elements.
Oddly enough I think Mekton could handle it as well.
And on the non-RPG side. Car Wars could do it. Or Gurps Autoduel.
Also some superhero RPGs like TSRs Marvel Superheroes could handle that sort of heroics.
Quote from: tenbones;1028587Plenty of cyberpunk RPG's suggest this as a campaign theme. Cyberpunk2020's Trauma Team is perfect for an intimate and intense game as first-responders. Ironically it uses all the tropes of the genre and the game's classes. Requires PR, medi-tech skills, solos and cops for security, fixers for "procurement" when certain things run low, technicians to keep all the gear running (especially the transports and their weapons/armor etc). Corporates for running the business and dealing with the inevitable intrigues from competitors etc.
There's no reason you couldn't have something like this... but a lot of conceits would have to change.
My second most successful Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0. game was EXACTLY that. It was a five player team of Nomad (face/Pilot), 2 Medtechs and 2 Solos. It lasted 3 years and had about, according to the players almost a hundred 8+ hour sessions. To be a teenager with too much time again.
I am told CP2020 and Mekton share the same system so that makes sense. CP2020 and probably Shadowrun could well handle rescue services. I ran a road rescue-n-repair service for a good while in shadowrun. If I couldn't get it up and running on the spot I'd tow it to someplace safe and work on it.
Some surprisingly creative responses in here!
I am looking forward to playing Flashpoint. I definitely feel the firefighter theme is better for boardgames.
Quote from: tenbones;1028587Cyberpunk2020's Trauma Team is perfect for an intimate and intense game as first-responders. Ironically it uses all the tropes of the genre and the game's classes. Requires PR, medi-tech skills, solos and cops for security, fixers for "procurement" when certain things run low, technicians to keep all the gear running (especially the transports and their weapons/armor etc). Corporates for running the business and dealing with the inevitable intrigues from competitors etc.
This was my Shadowrun D6 minicampaign!! No where near Christopher Brady's number of sessions, probably 1/10th, but incredibly fun.
We absolutely did firefighting too. AKA, the building is burning and people are shooting each other inside.
Quote from: JeremyR;1028504No. But I always thought a paramedic or rescue type RPG might have some appeal. Maybe mixed with Sci-Fi. One of my favorite SF series is Sector General by James White, which is largely about a hospital ship that responds to starship mishaps and the like.
However, I think it requires too much player knowledge of medicine and rescue.
+1
I don't see any point in doing a "firefighters RPG". Rather enlist as a real-life, part-time firefighter, and do the real thing. On the other hand, there might be some potential in making a supplement for a sci-fi game that would deal with firefighters, medics, etc., plus rules for disasters. Hence PCs could be something else than murder hobos in space, or at least such characters might be uselful in a traditional party of soldiers, rogues, etc.
I will keep this idea in mind for my next FH&W products... :D
Hah! I was betting one of my publishers would find the idea interesting, but turns out I was betting on the wrong publisher.
Quote from: Turanil;1029266+1
I don't see any point in doing a "firefighters RPG". Rather enlist as a real-life, part-time firefighter, and do the real thing. On the other hand, there might be some potential in making a supplement for a sci-fi game that would deal with firefighters, medics, etc., plus rules for disasters. Hence PCs could be something else than murder hobos in space, or at least such characters might be uselful in a traditional party of soldiers, rogues, etc.
I will keep this idea in mind for my next FH&W products... :D
Interesting. Friend of ours is a firefighter, and when he was studying for his captain's test I did a fire-fighting RPG for him; he had to roleplay being the on-scene commander, and some of my other players played the rest of the crew(s) sent to the scene. I used actual 'after-action' reports as the basis for the games, and it all played out quite well. He passed out at the top of his class, and some of his colleagues asked me to run games for them at the station.
So maybe it's a useful thing...
Quote from: Turanil;1029266+1
I don't see any point in doing a "firefighters RPG". Rather enlist as a real-life, part-time firefighter, and do the real thing.
I don't see any point in doing a military RPG. Rather enlist as a real-life soldier, and do the real thing.
I don't see any point in doing a medieval style RPG. Rather join one of the ARMA groups and do the real thing.
I don't see any point in doing a science fiction RPG. Rather join NASA and do the real thing.
Et fucking cetera.
Quote from: Turanil;1029266+1
I don't see any point in doing a "firefighters RPG". Rather enlist as a real-life, part-time firefighter, and do the real thing.
The whole point of a RPG is to allow us grown 'men' and 'women' (read kids) to be something we're not. This is not any different.
I think it could be done, but there are challenges.
Balancing reality would be a major issue as most players aren't going to know how to do things, but it's also not much fun to just boil everything down to a die roll. It also has to be accurate enough so that people who do know something about the subject don't just pick it apart.
Real firefighting is para-military (rank structure) and very team oriented. RPGs tend to focus on individuals, and players don't tend to like to follow the rules.
It is also generally fairly static, most crews work out of the same station in the same city, with the same group of people shift after shift. This makes it very hard not to have it just turn into a series of essentially random encounters with little player control (that is basically how the job works).
A game would probably work best in an episodic style, and the best format would probably be similar to the TV series Emergency! The show featured the crew (2 firefighter / paramedics) of a paramedic rescue company. Because of the specialized nature of their unit it gave more plot freedom. Less rigid as they were two equally ranked individuals, and they covered a wide area and wide variety of emergencies. Of course this is very limiting to the number of players.
On the less realistic side something like House would be a possibility. In the real world the fire department shows up, stabilizes the situation (puts out the fire, takes the patient to the hospital etc) and goes back to the station. Allowing the players to follow up by tracking down the causes, taking on an additional mission to help resolve the situation etc might make for more interesting if less accurate game play.
I think it would be neat to see it done well, but probably a pretty limited interest.
Sci-fi or a board game would probably be more successful. An interesting take could be following members of the London Fire Brigade during WW2.
There have been several computer games and a few board games. Most are not terribly representative of reality but some have been fun. Some have made a decent effort of at least having realistic physics so using real world tactics results in success.
There's a hex and counter forest fire fighting game called "Fire Jumpers" that's been around for a long time.
I could see running it with Mutant Chronicles, inevitably, the Dark Legion would be behind the fires.
Quote from: chirine ba kal;1030186Interesting. Friend of ours is a firefighter, and when he was studying for his captain's test I did a fire-fighting RPG for him; he had to roleplay being the on-scene commander, and some of my other players played the rest of the crew(s) sent to the scene. I used actual 'after-action' reports as the basis for the games, and it all played out quite well. He passed out at the top of his class, and some of his colleagues asked me to run games for them at the station.
So maybe it's a useful thing...
It's so useful that it's part of the normal training course where I come from. If your are lucky you also get miniature scenery with houses and cars and people to move around.
And even when I made the lowest paramedic licences, a sizable part of the course was roleplaying different situations.
(https://www.volksstimme.de/storyimage/MA/20180305/ARTIKEL/180309437/AR/0/AR-180309437.jpg&MaxW=505)
That's some pretty fascinating use of roleplaying for job-related stuff there.
Quote from: Krimson;1028514I'm not sure about an RPG. Maybe for a one shot or a few adventures but I couldn't really see a campaign, as it could get repetitive. Now if it was done like a war game, that might have some appeal, where one player is the fire fighters and the other the fire.
As an RPG, I would run it as "firefighters", but expand it to include arson investigation and things of that nature. That coverts it more into a trouble shooter aspect, so you don't have to do a burning building thing every session.
Quote from: Tod13;1046872As an RPG, I would run it as "firefighters", but expand it to include arson investigation and things of that nature. That coverts it more into a trouble shooter aspect, so you don't have to do a burning building thing every session.
You could certainly expand it to be a procedural. Though it wouldn't just be firefighters at that point.
I was a firefighter. I wrote a book for Traveller called Rescue Ops. It's firefighting in the future, but it's firefighting.
Quote from: DiscoSoup;1046876I was a firefighter. I wrote a book for Traveller called Rescue Ops. It's firefighting in the future, but it's firefighting.
Thank you, I hadn't noticed such a supplement exists:)! And I sure didn't know about the author's personal experience, which is always a bonus in my book!
25 year firefighter/medic here I used role-playing scenarios in a lot of training. A game would be great bit would have to.include a lot of technical detail. Roll medical skill or under to work a code would be boring as hell.
Quote from: rgrove0172;104706525 year firefighter/medic here I used role-playing scenarios in a lot of training. A game would be great bit would have to.include a lot of technical detail. Roll medical skill or under to work a code would be boring as hell.
I agree, for me the trick is to find the balance between technical and accessible. Ideally a person with actual hands on experience should be able to step in as a player and just do the job based on what they would do for real without worrying too much about mechanics. At the same time you can't very well put players without a background in fire / medicine through a fire academy before they can play the game.
This year is the start of 26 years in the fire service for me. The way I rate a firefighting game, computer, board or other is can I use my real world knowledge to advantage in the game. Obviously a game has to make some concessions, but I have found that a lot of the computer games do work well with real world tactics. On the other hand most of the board games seem to default to easy play and sacrifice reality which is a shame. I'd really like a game that is fun, but also educates. Something that gives a glimpse into what really happens in a smokey hallway, on the side of a mountain during a forest fire or at a vehicle accident.
Again I go back to the TV show Emergency! It stands out because it gave some concessions to create an entertaining TV show, but made a sincere effort to remain true to its subject matter. It is one of the only firefighter TV shows that receives praise from those doing the job.
Quote from: rgrove0172;104706525 year firefighter/medic here I used role-playing scenarios in a lot of training. A game would be great bit would have to.include a lot of technical detail. Roll medical skill or under to work a code would be boring as hell.
It sounds like you should be the one writing it. :)
Quote from: Turanil;1029266+1
I don't see any point in doing a "firefighters RPG". Rather enlist as a real-life, part-time firefighter, and do the real thing. On the other hand, there might be some potential in making a supplement for a sci-fi game that would deal with firefighters, medics, etc.,
I run crisis scenarios a lot in Traveller. It's part of the genre to me. They are more the "meltdowns and hull ruptures" variety, but it's rich ground for tense action in a hostile environment setting.
Usually those are "spacers trying to survive when shit goes wrong" scenarios, but I remember seeing a "rescue worker" class in Spacemaster and being fascinated by the concept.
Like Slaad mentions, the hostile environment or timed scenario often works well. In a fantasy context, a powerful forest fire or an area of volcanic activity that has such on the periphery, a campaign overlay.
I liked the TV show Rescue Me pretty well most of the time.
Tangentially, I once ran an adventure campaign that took place completely on the plane of fire back in the day. Efreet three dimensional dance clubs and all.
Quote from: Toadmaster;1047076I agree, for me the trick is to find the balance between technical and accessible. Ideally a person with actual hands on experience should be able to step in as a player and just do the job based on what they would do for real without worrying too much about mechanics. At the same time you can't very well put players without a background in fire / medicine through a fire academy before they can play the game.
This year is the start of 26 years in the fire service for me. The way I rate a firefighting game, computer, board or other is can I use my real world knowledge to advantage in the game. Obviously a game has to make some concessions, but I have found that a lot of the computer games do work well with real world tactics. On the other hand most of the board games seem to default to easy play and sacrifice reality which is a shame. I'd really like a game that is fun, but also educates. Something that gives a glimpse into what really happens in a smokey hallway, on the side of a mountain during a forest fire or at a vehicle accident.
Again I go back to the TV show Emergency! It stands out because it gave some concessions to create an entertaining TV show, but made a sincere effort to remain true to its subject matter. It is one of the only firefighter TV shows that receives praise from those doing the job.
Emergency was great that way. Thanks to both of you for your service.
Quote from: AsenRG;1046914Thank you, I hadn't noticed such a supplement exists:)! And I sure didn't know about the author's personal experience, which is always a bonus in my book!
I wasn't a firefighter for nearly as long as I would have liked. The OSHA doctor booted me due to epilepsy. I had it managed, disclosed it to the chiefs and went through the entire academy. In fact I'm now considered non-epileptic. Oh well.
Quote from: DiscoSoup;1047299I wasn't a firefighter for nearly as long as I would have liked. The OSHA doctor booted me due to epilepsy. I had it managed, disclosed it to the chiefs and went through the entire academy. In fact I'm now considered non-epileptic. Oh well.
Well, that sucks. I guess they were covering their own asses, but it sucks.
Still, that should be enough experience to write an RPG;).
Another issue is what do people expect from a non-combat focused RPG?
Sure a fire or medical emergency can be given a "combat system" of sorts, but the reality is most are pretty cut and dried, if this, then that. Fires can be tricky because of access or lack of resources / time constraints but despite media depictions fire is not an intelligent opponent that needs to be outwitted. It just comes down to locate, confine and extinguish.
Sure there are antics that can be played out, but I haven't seen many soap opera RPGs. Pretty sure playing pranks, scoring a date with the hot new ER nurse or getting a side job in construction wouldn't sustain a game for long. Playing out investigations is an option, but that is really getting more into a law enforcement style game.
Quote from: DiscoSoup;1047299I wasn't a firefighter for nearly as long as I would have liked. The OSHA doctor booted me due to epilepsy. I had it managed, disclosed it to the chiefs and went through the entire academy. In fact I'm now considered non-epileptic. Oh well.
Wow, that stinks. I can only imagine how disappointing to make it through all the testing, and the academy and then have it yanked away like that. I can certainly see their concern, but a shame that didn't come before all the effort.
Thanks, guys. This was just about 16 years ago. Worst part was telling my grandpa. He was a captain on the Pueblo department who served at the Central Block Building Fire back in 1953. Got to spend one night in the station and go out to one fire. Turned out not to be a fire. The months in the academy were some of the best.
Quote from: Toadmaster;1047422Another issue is what do people expect from a non-combat focused RPG?
Playing out investigations is an option, but that is really getting more into a law enforcement style game.
My thought was actually something closer to Firefighters Meet Cthulhu. When The Others appear on Earth, they release heat energy causing fires and creating a livable environment for themselves. So, you end up fighting the fire, investigating the cult, and fighting The Others and their Ancient Minions (maybe they are bullet proof but not axe and firehose proof?).
Quote from: DiscoSoup;1046876I was a firefighter. I wrote a book for Traveller called Rescue Ops. It's firefighting in the future, but it's firefighting.
Was this published?
Quote from: RPGPundit;1047860Was this published?
AFAICT, it's been published by Mongoose, for MgT 1e.
Hmm, interesting. I had no idea.