TheRPGSite

Because they are what they are, they were forced to step down.
Shame on the ENNIES!

http://www.feartheboot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4982

I've yet to listen to FTB... so I have to ask: were they forced to withdraw because they told people on their podcast how to cast multiple votes for them?

If so, then well, c'mon...

They made jokes about how you could cheat.
And they admitted having voted for themselves at home AND at work.

It was also a running gag, because they had their own ballots, and when the ENNIES came around, it went something in the spirit of:

"Now, remember all the pleas for fair-play with our ballotts? Forget everything!:haw:"

There are things a superiour just "does not see" = minor, but technically illegal pranks.
If he insists on having seen it, the whole process of court-martial must apply, damaging the superiour, the offender and the service.

There´s some serious lack of sense for proportion going on. And bigotry.

Evolution in action. Roughly the same happened to Rasyr, asshattish promoter of HARP last year, although I don't think he was technically disqualified.

Some key quotes:
http://hofrat.rollenspiel-berlin.de/Forum/index.php?topic=679

That's too bad. They have a good show.

Uh... who the fuck are these people again? And why should I care? Other than just one more example of how utterly fucked up and easily-warpable any of the "judgements" of the ENnies really are?

RPGPundit

It´s maybe the last, most popular and healthy regular-joe podcasts in existance.
Listening to them is listening to the majority, who never has even heard of certain developments.

I actually did vote from home and work.  I only vote in categories I've got a firm opinion on and I missed one of them the first time around.

I think it's pretty absurd that these guys are getting booted like this, but I obviously have no control over this or any other aspect of the Ennies, which I agree with Pundit on thing: Man who the fuck are a lot of these people, and games?

The whole thing disgusted me. I enjoy listening to FtB and think they got hosed. There were accusations of cheating on the part of FtB by the ENnie people who said (to paraphase) "If you are innocent, please submit proof to us" - which was ludicrous. Later, the accusations of cheating were rescinded, and FtB was DQ'ed for "questioning the integrity of the awards", because they pointed out how someone else (anonymous) was cheating.

FtB guys pointed out several things including: There was no proof of cheating, there are no ENnie rules posted that state anything they are accused of is against ENnie policy, and finally, the comments in question were made in a joking fashion which is the MO of the show.

The ENnie voting process is flawed. It's not the fault of FtB, responsibility lies with the awards organizers. When I saw a favorite game publisher of mine posting announcements on their homepage, distributor page and blog asking people to get all their friends to vote, I realized just how flawed these awards are. The unprofessional manner in which the FtB DQ was handled completely soured me on them altogether.

Quote from: SettembriniIt´s maybe the last, most popular and healthy regular-joe podcasts in existance.
Listening to them is listening to the majority, who never has even heard of certain developments.

AHEM!  I'd like to point out the grassroots effort for us to be regular-Joes.

As a regular-Joe, I must be angry at this...:D

However, we should use our own podcast to fight this.

Quote from: GoOrangeThe unprofessional manner in which the FtB DQ was handled completely soured me on them altogether.

I absolutely agree, the Ennies people-especially Micheal Morris-were total twats.

Quote from: Serious PaulI absolutely agree, the Ennies people-especially Micheal Morris-were total twats.

Twat is too mild of a word.

Twat-monkey?
Festering twat-monkey?

It's that TheRPGSite gift for vitriolic hyperbole that keeps me coming back here. You guys are the experts. :)

I hope that's preserved in the podcast.

FtB is one of my favorite podcasts and this is total bullshit.  They are nice guys and took the high road, which I understand.

But the Ennies are fucking jackasses for this.  All because Morris felt like a "bad programmer" after listening to their comments.  Assholes.

yup.

Is it ok to solicit cheating?

Quote from: PookaIs it ok to solicit cheating?

Hey Pooka, long time no see. I'd say no, unless it's as a joke.

If you're stupid enough to admit to cheating and publicly request others cheat for you (while explaining how), you deserve to be kicked off the team and sent home on the short bus.

Quote from: SigmundHey Pooka, long time no see. I'd say no, unless it's as a joke.

Good to be back from North Pole Alaska - The eskimos there the nicest palm trees I've ever seen! Anyway, on topic, was it a joke?

Quote from: PookaGood to be back from North Pole Alaska - The eskimos there the nicest palm trees I've ever seen! Anyway, on topic, was it a joke?

Yes

Unfortunately, from what i've seen of some nominees, nearly International Olympic Comittee levels of canvassing is going on.

Quote from: James McMurrayIf you're stupid enough to admit to cheating and publicly request others cheat for you (while explaining how), you deserve to be kicked off the team and sent home on the short bus.

That's one pretty narrow minded way of looking at it.

Quote from: joewolzYes

How can you be sure?

Quote from: PookaHow can you be sure?

Well I take them for their word on it, but read for yourself (http://www.feartheboot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4982&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0). Right around page eight the ENnies IT guy comes in and makes a colossally huge asshole out of himself.

yup, he sounds like a major fucktard to me.  he should come over to this place :D

edit:  so we can give him what for.
can anyone vote for these retarded awards?  time to stuff the ballot box, for whatever ^_^

Quote from: PookaHow can you be sure?

Did you listen to the podcast?  You'd know by the way they said it.  Their mannerisms are pretty typical American.

Does it matter if I listened to the podcast? How can you be sure?  I'm a great actor - I've stared in nine major motion pictures - and I guarantee you can't be sure of anything I say or do based on mannerisms.  So again, how can you be sure?

So even if we're not sure, then what? What is a reasonable response Pooka?

Quote from: beeberyup, he sounds like a major fucktard to me.  he should come over to this place :D

How do you know he's not already here?

Quoteedit:  so we can give him what for.

Why would you want to do that?

Quotecan anyone vote for these retarded awards?

If they're retarded then why vote for them?

Quotetime to stuff the ballot box, for whatever ^_^

Why would you want to do that? What does it accomplish?

Quote from: Serious PaulSo even if we're not sure, then what? What is a reasonable response Pooka?

Now, now - didn't the sidhe lord tell you never to ask questions of a pooka because they are lyers who never tell the truth so you can't trust them? Of course, that's all a load of hogwash - pooka always tell the truth.

Quote from: PookaNow, now - didn't the sidhe lord tell you never to ask questions of a pooka because they are lyers who never tell the truth so you can't trust them? Of course, that's all a load of hogwash - pooka always tell the truth.

I'm not sure what your gig is here, but I have no fucking idea what you're saying, or why-so until you feel like clarifying I'll just assume you have nothing to say.

Edit

Oh I think I get it. You're one of those goofy furry fucks who think they're terribly clever with all this  third person stuff. So pretty much you and I will never ever see eye to eye. As we were then.

Quote from: PookaHow do you know he's not already here?



Why would you want to do that?



If they're retarded then why vote for them?



Why would you want to do that? What does it accomplish?

to be an annoying bastard, and to fuck with something i couldn't give a rat's ass about, that's why!  play Loki sometimes!

Quote from: joewolzYes

Quote from: Dan @ Fear the BootThe comments we made in that episode were a combination of three things:

1. Amibguous comments that were misunderstood.

2. Tongue-in-cheek humor about things we hadn't actually done.

3. Comments on things we really had done.

#1 and #2 are absolutely true, but they do not excuse #3. For this, I take full responsibility. The few things we actually did do were wrong, and I apologize both to the community and to the folks that run the ENnie Awards for having done them.

I really don't know why it didn't end there (well I do, but still, humans are curious creatures that never cease to amaze me.) Dan, it appears, was being a standup guy in admitting that, jokes aside, there was probably a line crossed there.

Quote from: Serious PaulI'm not sure what your gig is here, but I have no fucking idea what you're saying, or why-so until you feel like clarifying I'll just assume you have nothing to say.

Why can't you understand me? Here, look over this very inaccurate account (http://dreamburrow.digitaldreaming.org/) as to the nature of my kind and try again.

Anyway, I was reminded by my pet dog Spookem that you asked the question 'What is the reasonable response?' Did you know I think that is an excellent question? I counterpoise again in question: what is the safe response?

Can you imagine the position of the management of the ENnies?  What do you do when you receive news that the awards you've worked on for seven years are being cheated on by one of the nominees? What do you do when you visit their site immediately after receiving that news and listen to the podcasts in question?

Your question arises - what is the reasonable response?

An excellent question, a salient one, but do you know how difficult and dangerous it truly is?

I stand by my post-you and I will never be more than two people on the same board.

Quote from: beeberto be an annoying bastard, and to fuck with something i couldn't give a rat's ass about, that's why!  play Loki sometimes!

Do you always give up this easily?  Are questions so difficult for you? Don't you understand that I simply want you to think and find the truth through careful deliberation?

Quote from: Serious PaulI stand by my post-you and I will never be more than two people on the same board.

Do you think this surprises me? As Kennedy once said most people spend their whole lives never looking beyond themselves because they are cowards mortally afraid of questioning the world or questioning themself.

You are are making assumptions based upon an incomplete grasp of the facts.  Please allow me to clarify:

• We are not disqualifying them for joking around. We are not disqualifying them for disrepecting the Awards. We are not disqualifying them for "poor taste". As a matter of fact, we really didn't want to have to officially disqualify them at all. We asked them to withdraw because they admitted to having voted from work and home. They apologized. That was not a joke. That is a fact.
• Voting more than once violates the democratic principle of one person, one vote. They blatantly broke that principle, forcing the Board's hand. We could not condone such behaviour through inaction.
• We will codify it in the future that cheating is grounds for disqualification.
• We will adopt methods of reducing the possibility of ballot-stuffing for future years.

Finally, I'd like to say that the ENnie Awards staff, Board, and judges are all volunteers who put in hundreds of hours every year into the Awards. And while none of us expect a pat on the back, it would be nice to not be rewarded with a kick to the teeth as it were.

We strive to maintain a high standard at all times in all aspects, but sometimes an individual staffer may snap when attacked, or make statements that do not bear out the Board's policies. I apologize if anyone associated with the ENnies has stepped over the line of professionalism and offended or misled anyone in this (or any other matter), and assure you that actions are being taken to discipline offenders and prevent re-occurrences.

Thank you for your understanding. I welcome emails at denise@ennieawards.com if you wish to continue this.

Quote from: GoOrangeThe whole thing disgusted me.

QFT

Quote from: One Horse TownUnfortunately, from what i've seen of some nominees, nearly International Olympic Comittee levels of canvassing is going on.

Canvassing is quite acceptable.  We (the ENnies) encourage all nominees to encourage their fan base to vote in an ethical manner.  The offending issue was with the open admission of voting more than once.  

In a democracy, that's cheating.

Quote from: beerberplay Loki sometimes!

This statement demonstrates your clear ignorance of the Loki concept.  Loki was not mischief for mischief's sake.

It is amusing, however, to see certain ENWorlders make as bad an asshat of themselves as Rasyr.  Apparently the phenomenon isn't limited to ENWorld, if this thread is any evidence.

Denise,

I'm curious.  I noted the voting page was updated on August 6th (yesterday as of this post).  What was added?  Was it the FAQ?

I ask, because, until that point, I couldn't find anything that prohibited voting multiple times for a judge. It states it clearly in the explanation for the actual voting (for games), but the only place it states it for judges is in the FAQ.

Am I missing a reference to it someplace else?

Thanks,
Jim

Quote from: DeniseCheaters don't get to play in my games.

Hmmm. Is there really anyone out there who doesn't think massive multiple voting is involved in any online poll?

Hi Jim,

We added the following sentence:
"Just remember, even if you do have access to multiple IP addresses, we follow the democratic principle of one person, one vote."

Before we were running with a gentleman's agreement based on the aforementioned principle, but figured we'd better hammer the point home.

Quote from: James J SkachDenise,

I'm curious.  I noted the voting page was updated on August 6th (yesterday as of this post).  What was added?  Was it the FAQ?

I ask, because, until that point, I couldn't find anything that prohibited voting multiple times for a judge. It states it clearly in the explanation for the actual voting (for games), but the only place it states it for judges is in the FAQ.

Am I missing a reference to it someplace else?

Thanks,
Jim

Quote from: Erik BoielleHmmm. Is there really anyone out there who doesn't think massive multiple voting is involved in any online poll?

Not on the ENnies board.  Now I have some questions for you:
1. Just because everyone else is doing it, does that make it right?
2. Just because you can break the rules, does it mean you should?
3. If someone breaks the rules, brags about it then gets caught, shouldn't there be consequences for the rule-breaker?

Quote from: DeniseHi Jim,

We added the following sentence:
"Just remember, even if you do have access to multiple IP addresses, we follow the democratic principle of one person, one vote."

Before we were running with a gentleman's agreement based on the aforementioned principle, but figured we'd better hammer the point home.

So before that line was written, there actually was no written instructions for voting that limited anyone to one person one vote?  I think, from what I can tell, the IP checking was in place, but there was noting explicitly stating a person could only vote once. So was it assumed that people would understand the implied meaning of the IP checking?

I ask all this because you've accused someone of cheating (which could very well be the case), but the rule in question does not seem to have been explictly been stated - at least as far as I can tell.

Quote from: DeniseNot on the ENnies board.  Now I have some questions for you:
1. Just because everyone else is doing it, does that make it right?
2. Just because you can break the rules, does it mean you should?
3. If someone breaks the rules, brags about it then gets caught, shouldn't there be consequences for the rule-breaker?

Well, this is my point.  I don't seem to be able to find any rule that said, prior to your addition yesterday, that I could only vote once.  I, in fact, considered voting more than once because I assumed this was what people did since there was no rule explicitly stating otherwise.

Now to you, and to others, and to the board, this might seem like bending the rules, or intentionally cheating.  But to a newcomer like me, this didn't seem to be a stretch.

Is there something in the judge application that states this is the rule?  That would make it clear to the people who were involved (the Fear the Boot folks), but it still wasn't clear to the general population.  Again, this is all based on my searching the site - I could have missed it somewhere...

Quote from: James J SkachI ask all this because you've accused someone of cheating (which could very well be the case), but the rule in question does not seem to have been explictly been stated - at least as far as I can tell.

Do you suffer from Asperger's Syndrome? Did your mother have to explicitly tell you not to walk off high ledges as a kid? Do you twist at rules like this with your DM??

Quote from: PookaDo you suffer from Asperger's Syndrome? Did your mother have to explicitly tell you not to walk off high ledges as a kid? Do you twist at rules like this with your DM??

Hey, he's just asking. No harm in askin'

For some reason I seem to recall a previous Ennies (might have been Origins Award) where you were only supposed to vote once per day, but they pretty much encouraged multiple votes.

Hey, perverse question, can I disqualify people by voting for them twice, then fessing up to it? That would be kinda funny.:haw:

You're right!

At no point before the 6th of August did we ever explicitly state that voting more than once was against the rules.  We also failed to warn anyone that it was wrong to offer bribes to voters, or to threaten them.  And to inform them that water is, indeed :eek: wet.

We will be implementing new policies and rules- and posting them in great length on the ennieawards.com site.

Quote from: James J SkachI ask all this because you've accused someone of cheating (which could very well be the case), but the rule in question does not seem to have been explictly been stated - at least as far as I can tell.

Quote from: DeniseNot on the ENnies board.  Now I have some questions for you:
1. Just because everyone else is doing it, does that make it right?

Certainly not. And certainly not anymore than doing "it" makes "it" wrong. Which in this case until you guys decided it was wrong post incident, it wasn't wrong.

Quote2. Just because you can break the rules, does it mean you should?

I understand the spirit of this question, but I think this is kind of crass of you. You're asking for our understanding, and for us to make an allowance but you, by which I mean the Imperial you-the ENnies staff-seem unwilling to make the same allowances.

Now perhaps you believe you're holding yourself to some higher standard, and certainly that's laudable, but I'd think that fan reaction combined with reactions across the community seem to show you guys were off base in your "accusations". (Forgive me if that's too strong of a word.)

I really think you guys owe FtB and their crew a pretty public apology-if you have already, than I apologize for demanding such again.

Quote3. If someone breaks the rules, brags about it then gets caught, shouldn't there be consequences for the rule-breaker?

Except they broke no rules, weren't really bragging and you pretty much know this. So really your logic is good for the next case right, but not so much here?

If you were a nominee, then sure, you could get yourself DQ'd for voting for yourself twice.  Dare to dream, friend!  Start up a fan site or publishing company, produce some excellent material to get yourself nominated, then deliberately throw the world the goat by getting yourself disqualified.  ANARCHY!!!!!!!!!!

Ahem.

And I'm pretty sure that no ENnies Awards have encouraged multiple votes.  

Quote from: Abyssal MawFor some reason I seem to recall a previous Ennies (might have been Origins Award) where you were only supposed to vote once per day, but they pretty much encouraged multiple votes.

Hey, perverse question, can I disqualify people by voting for them twice, then fessing up to it? That would be kinda funny.:haw:

This is where we part ways, Paul.
There may have not been a codified rule against stuffing the ballots, but any reasonable person knowing that we were tracking IPs would conclude that this was to prevent multiple votes.  The vast majority of our voters live in a democratic society.  A fundamental principle thereof is one person, one vote.

Voting more than once is wrong, and they know it.  They admitted it.  They apologized.

I'll concede they weren't necessarily "bragging".  They were just joking in public about what they had done.

Quote from: Serious PaulExcept they broke no rules, weren't really bragging and you pretty much know this. So really your logic is good for the next case right, but not so much here?

Quote from: DeniseThis is where we part ways, Paul.

Fair enough. I do disagree with you, but if this is where you've drawn your personal line who am I to press you?

Here's the transcript.

Quote from: Fear the Boot, July 25If you have have not voted yet or if there is a computer you have not voted from yet because it's by IP. I will tell you guys this: I am a consultant and have access to many clients' servers. I have voted from all of them. I'll tell you right now this is what happens when you unleash nerds upon a voting contest... My brother who works for Microsoft says that they have a ton of internal IPs. He cycled through all of them; every single one of them has been used for an abuse vote... You're gonna get us DQed. This is exactly what happens when you unleash this many nerds on a voting contest but, if you're an honest person who has not voted for us yet, please go out to //www.ennieawards.com.

Make of it what you will.

AHEM!
You are missing out on the tone, the context and the rest of the conversation.

I suppose the tone of the podcast matters, even after one of the podcasters admitted that he had, indeed, voted for himself more than once?  Outside of the podcast?

Geez.  It's a simple matter here.

1. Fear The Boot jokes about how easy to cheat the ENnies, casually implies that they have already done so.

2. ENnies people do something behind the scenes, make some decisions, and ask Fear the Boot to step out of the running.

3. Fear the Boot is disqualified.  End of story.


But wait!  For some inexplicable reason, the story doesn't end there!  Instead we have:

4. Intarwebs rally behind downtrodden heroes, Fear The Boot!

5. Wild accusations are thrown at the ENnies staff (who are mostly volunteer, I should add) including distortment of facts, like issues of "mass rigging" and "teh conspeerasees!"

6. Fear The Boot gets plenty of press from this.  I know I never heard of them before this came up.

7. People who know dick all about the situation think they know enough about the situation to open their big mouths.

8. Some folks on the RPG Site come up with the genius idea of "if it's not explicitedly disallowed, then it should not be wrong" argument.

The reason is plainly and easily that the programmer guy who runs the vote is a whiney bitch who takes himself way to seriously.
Again, the "official" reason was the "dishonouring of the awards"
 
Dishonourable, my ass.

Quote from: Roudi8. Some folks on the RPG Site come up with the genius idea of "if it's not explicitedly disallowed, then it should not be wrong" argument.

For starters, this isn't some political competetion where the winner is endowed with a job or powers, it's just a popularity contest. Just admit that the stakes are lower. If people take the brief moment to find out that they can vote more than once, then they just might if it's not explicitly disallowed, because they don't see some earthshaking harm in voting for their favorite hobby trifle in some internet popularity contest. This is not new people, and if you think so, you must be very new to internet in general.

If you need further convincing, consider that the most well-known popularity contest available to the public in the US is American Idol, and they do allow people to vote more than once, and boy do they.

Don't have to be a genius to figure that one out.

Quote from: PookaDoes it matter if I listened to the podcast? How can you be sure?  I'm a great actor - I've stared in nine major motion pictures - and I guarantee you can't be sure of anything I say or do based on mannerisms.  So again, how can you be sure?

My dick's real big too!

How can anyone be sure of anything?  I'm a Democrat because I'm sure they're mostly right, and others on here can be Republicans and be sure they're right.  You can't be sure of anything, on any kind of level, other than the fact that the self exists.

But on the subject of FtB joking, yes, I'm fucking sure because I'm sure.

Quote from: joewolzMy dick's real big too!

I just want to attest, because I like the ennies people reading this thread.

Joe Wolz is like a baby's arm holding an apple!

Why all the defensiveness? I love the tone of the posts and the snark.

I asked questions, that's all.  You guys seem quite defensive for a bunch of questions and an honest look, from an outsider, at the judge voting process.

I get it.  I'm not out to excuse the Fear the Boot crowd.  I don't know them, hadn't even heard of them until these threads, and could give a rats ass if they are judges or not.

I'm simply pointing out that there was no explicit rule.  Now it's been implied that I have Asperger's syndrome, and that if not told otherwise, I'll walk off high ledges, and that I believe that if it's not explicitly disallowed, it's not wrong.

You're conflating issues. Something not explicitly stated in the rules may be wrong; but it's not against the rules. And it's fine to make that judgement, especially when you're the ones running the show. But it's not out of the realm of possibility that you're going to get blowback.

Quote from: SettembriniThe reason is plainly and easily that the programmer guy who runs the vote is a whiney bitch who takes himself way to seriously.
Again, the "official" reason was the "dishonouring of the awards"
 
Dishonourable, my ass.

Hi.
I'm the manager for the Awards.  At no point did I or any other member of the Board of Directors for the ENnies state that the "official" reason was the "dishonouring of the awards".  Please get your facts straight.

OK.
But Morris [the ENNIE programmer guy] did say this:
 

Quote»You are not being punished for revealing the weaknesses of the system. You are not being punished for cheating. You are being punished for holding the awards process in contempt, for encouraging cheating, for debasing and devaluing both the awards and the process by which they are derived, and for calling into question the integrity of the awards.

This whole turn of events is unfortunate for all parties concerned, but we have no choice. If we do not disqualify you for these offenses the awards become what you already apparently consider them to be as indicated by your behavior: a joke.«

So, praytell, is the official reason now their cheating?
They admitted that some of them voted from work and from office.
 
Is it that?
That´s why they have been forced to step down?
Because they admitted they had voted from work as well as from the office?
Will you persecute all others who did so?
 
How about all the MS-IPs that were used for abusal voting?
FtB uncovered that, how about that?
What are you going to do about it?
 
The only thing foul here I can see is a scapegoat. Are the ENNIES now clean?
Is abuse now contained?
 
What exact purpose did the forced abdication serve?
To show what?
What´s the message you want to send?

Hi James,

One of the difficulties of this medium is the lack of context in tone and expression.  So if I've misread your posts, I apologize.

Please consider my situation:  I do a quick scan for ENnies mention on my fave boards, and come across this thread, full of lies and accusations.  "Why all the defensiveness"?  Are you kidding?  Have you not seen the attacks in this thread alone?  Your posts could be construed as leading questions, or an honest effort to understand the situation.  Without context, it's hard to tell.

In my replies, I've tried to maintain a neutral if somewhat lighthearted tone.  As for the Asperger's thang, I have never done such a thing.  Just like the Fear the Boot fanboys have gone off the deep end defending their cause, the ENnies have a few fans as well who will jump to the Awards' defence.  

It's the Internet.  Of course there will be blowback, especially when dealing with a bunch of rules lawyers.  Honestly, there are lots of people who had never heard of either the ENnies or Fear the Boot before this came up, and it's doing both groups a world of good in the publicity department, I'm sure.  

I would prefer it if some of the outright lies would stop being spread, but once again, hey, it's teh intarweb.

Quote from: James J SkachWhy all the defensiveness? I love the tone of the posts and the snark.

I asked questions, that's all.  You guys seem quite defensive for a bunch of questions and an honest look, from an outsider, at the judge voting process.

I get it.  I'm not out to excuse the Fear the Boot crowd.  I don't know them, hadn't even heard of them until these threads, and could give a rats ass if they are judges or not.

I'm simply pointing out that there was no explicit rule.  Now it's been implied that I have Asperger's syndrome, and that if not told otherwise, I'll walk off high ledges, and that I believe that if it's not explicitly disallowed, it's not wrong.

You're conflating issues. Something not explicitly stated in the rules may be wrong; but it's not against the rules. And it's fine to make that judgement, especially when you're the ones running the show. But it's not out of the realm of possibility that you're going to get blowback.

Denise, before you are being contemptful of your own kind again:
 
You are being the rules lawyer right now.
Rules lawyering without getting the spirit of the game or the rules.

Sheesh! This is insane!

THIS IS A WEB-BASED AWARD FOR GAMES!

It's not the Nobel prize, folks!

AN AWARD!!! FOR GAMES!!! WEB-BASED!!!

And we are talking about a freaking PODCAST!

Keep things in proportion. This is by definition NO BIG DEAL!

This should be fun, not serious!

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceSheesh! This is insane!

THIS IS A WEB-BASED AWARD FOR GAMES!

It's not the Nobel prize, folks!

AN AWARD!!! FOR GAMES!!! WEB-BASED!!!

And we are talking about a freaking PODCAST!

Keep things in proportion. This is by definition NO BIG DEAL!

This should be fun, not serious!

-clash

What he said! I'm personally stoked to have two things i worked on nominated for awards. But to put it in perspective, when i told a friend of mine about this, he said, "Cool! That's got to be pleasing!". My response, "Yep!"

Then he said, "So how prestigious are these awards then? Like the oscars or the baftas?" I had to think about it for a while, before answering. I came up with, "Well, it's one of the two most prestigious RPG awards really. So sort of like the European football championship, as opposed to the World cup, i guess."

Then he said, "What about in the real writing world?" To which, my response was "A bit like getting your bronze swimming profficiency badge."

It's awards for a niche business. Cool be to involved, but as clash pointed out, not something to get too invested in.

Quote from: One Horse TownThen he said, "What about in the real writing world?" To which, my response was "A bit like getting your bronze swimming profficiency badge."

It's awards for a niche business. Cool be to involved, but as clash pointed out, not something to get too invested in.

Thanks, Dan! Nicely put!

-clash

Quote from: DeniseHi.
I'm the manager for the Awards.  At no point did I or any other member of the Board of Directors for the ENnies state that the "official" reason was the "dishonouring of the awards".  Please get your facts straight.

See, what really got myself and a lot of other people up in arms was  This Post (http://feartheboot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=76595#76595) by Michael Morris, which directly contradicts what you are telling us here.

Quote from: Michael Morris on the FtB forumsYou are not being punished for revealing the weaknesses of the system. You are not being punished for cheating. You are being punished for holding the awards process in contempt, for encouraging cheating, for debasing and devaluing both the awards and the process by which they are derived, and for calling into question the integrity of the awards.

At this point it's hard to know what to believe.

Quote from: GoOrangeSee, what really got myself and a lot of other people up in arms was  This Post (http://feartheboot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=76595#76595) by Michael Morris, which directly contradicts what you are telling us here.
(...)
At this point it's hard to know what to believe.

Hey! I am not in any sort of position to make any official statements. But I can spell out a few things that might clear up some confusion.

The ENnies board of directors consists of Russel Morrissey (AKA "Morrus"), Denise Robinson, and Rich Miller. Only the board of directors is empowered to make a call as to who is disqualified and why.

Michael Morris is the programmer who handles all of the board programming and has assisted the awards in various other ways. He is not on the board of directors.

As an another point of clarification, Morrus and Michael Morris are two different people.

If there is some confusion about what the official stance is, I would defer to what Denise has to say.

So it remains:
What was the message meant to be sent with the forced step-down?
What were they trying to accomplish?

Can they clarify whether Morrisey was involved? Because I've so-far given that guy money on three occaisions. And I love Enworld. But man, I think the ennies are coned. Whoever decided this should be an industry award? This used to be a fun award. Now it's all "official" and inclusive to games I don't care about, and there's all these people I don't know involved. Screw that!

It used to be the Origins award was the one where you had no interest in the majority of the products that had gotten nominations.

I can totally buy into the Ennies being hosed by bad decisions from a certain someone* on the board. Going all out to bring in the forgies, for example seemed like a shockingly bad idea, and other decisions that have been made over the last couple of years have really turned the ennies into an award that is somehow not as cool as it used to be.

So I'm kinda having a hard time caring about this, other than it enabled me to make that baby's arm holding an apple comment.

So someone please confirm...

Was Morrus involved? What was his take on this?


* Whose last name doesn't begin with an "M"

Quote from: Serious PaulThat's one pretty narrow minded way of looking at it.

Of course it's narrow. I've found the perfectly correct (to me) response to the philosophical / moral problems underlying the current situation. Why would I need to branch out from that?

If you cheat, and you admit it in public, and even ask that others do the same; you're stupid and deserve the punishment.

Quote from: SettembriniSo it remains:
What was the message meant to be sent with the forced step-down?

It seems pretty obvious to this armchair analyst that the message is ":don't cheat in our awards."

QuoteWhat were they trying to accomplish?

Likewise, it seems to bea way to enforce that whole "don't cheat" thing.

What part of Denise's straightforward statements has you confused?

Now it all makes sense Pooka is Micheal Morris. Now I understand a lot more. Hi Micheal, you're a twat!

I was a member of the judging panel but, not being a member of the board, I am not empowered to speak on behalf of the ENnies organization. However, I thought it might be useful to include the section of the Fear the Boot podcast that caused concern and prompted them to withdraw voluntarily:

   If you have have not voted yet or if there is a computer you have not voted from yet because it’s by IP. I will tell you guys this: I am a consultant and have access to many clients’ servers. I have voted from all of them. I’ll tell you right now this is what happens when you unleash nerds upon a voting contest… My brother who works for Microsoft says that they have a ton of internal IPs. He cycled through all of them; every single one of them has been used for an abuse vote… You’re gonna get us DQed. This is exactly what happens when you unleash this many nerds on a voting contest but, if you’re an honest person who has not voted for us yet, please go out to //www.ennieawards.com.

I would like to commend Fear the Boot in choosing to withdraw honourably from the contest; and I look forward to seeing them in the running next year.

Quote from: GoOrangeAt this point it's hard to know what to believe.

Especially since a member of the ENnies staff seems to take such joy in being disruptive, and apparently they (The ENnies people) are fine with him going out to troll other boards for reactions and pick fights with people.

I applaud you Denise, and your staff members for keeping such a brilliant programmer on your staff. I hope he's actually useful with computers, because he's obviously no good with people. (And given the state of everything I'm betting he's not up to snuff on his code slinging either.)

Quote from: Serious PaulNow it all makes sense Pooka is Micheal Morris. Now I understand a lot more. Hi Micheal, you're a twat!

I love you too. Did you bruise any brain cells figuring that out?

Quote from: James McMurrayIt seems pretty obvious to this armchair analyst that the message is ":don't cheat in our awards."



Likewise, it seems to bea way to enforce that whole "don't cheat" thing.

What part of Denise's straightforward statements has you confused?

While I don't disagree with ya, per se, I'm of the opinion (based on what I've seen so far) that this whole car wreck could have been handled a little bit better by the ENnie peeps. They're just coming across as defensive and/or condescending, when in the end they really have no need to defend themselves because they didn't do anything wrong. It's their awards, after all.

On the flip side, seems to me the FtB peeps pulled a Don Imus, and have been properly contrite, for the most part, since.

That being said, it's like this major pile-up has been happening in slow-mo with multiple camera angles and picture-in-picture replays in full speed. Well done all, I'm entertained ;)

Quote from: Serious PaulEspecially since a member of the ENnies staff seems to take such joy in being disruptive, and apparently they (The ENnies people) are fine with him going out to troll other boards for reactions and pick fights with people.

Am I trolling? Or am I asking questions outside your capacity to comprehend, interpret? Can you be introspective, or must you be always defensive?

QuoteI applaud you Denise, and your staff members for keeping such a brilliant programmer on your staff. I hope he's actually useful with computers, because he's obviously no good with people. (And given the state of everything I'm betting he's not up to snuff on his code slinging either.)

As one without worth, how is one to judge worth? Why are you trying to insult me? Don't you understand that in order to give insult the writer must be held in esteem by the reader?

My whole world revolves around your every whim and command. Does that make sense?

Quote from: Caesar SlaadThe ENnies board of directors consists of Russel Morrissey (AKA "Morrus"), Denise Robinson, and Rich Miller. Only the board of directors is empowered to make a call as to who is disqualified and why.

Michael Morris is the programmer who handles all of the board programming and has assisted the awards in various other ways. He is not on the board of directors.

OK, this makes sense. Michael is not part of the board and the inference of Denise's statement is that he had nothing to do with the decision, and his comments should be ignored altogether.

He is, however, part of the organization, and as such the organization will be held accountable for his statements in the court of public opinion.

Quote from: joewolzMy dick's real big too!

I dunno, that's a real small ruler.

QuoteHow can anyone be sure of anything?

:) You begin to understand grasshopper.

QuoteI'm a Democrat because I'm sure they're mostly right, and others on here can be Republicans and be sure they're right.  You can't be sure of anything, on any kind of level, other than the fact that the self exists.

The Walrus and the Carpenter, having finished dining on the oysters, stopped to ponder the morality of their action. Then they belched.

QuoteBut on the subject of FtB joking, yes, I'm fucking sure because I'm sure.

Does it matter if they were joking? Does it change the fact they stated that they cheated - voting from home and from work? If you remove all else, does that fact justify asking them to withdraw?

Suppose you answer 'no' to that last one - what do you say to whoever finishes second and third when they point out the winner admitted to cheating? Which is more damaging to your reputation?

Quote from: PookaDoes it matter if they were joking? Does it change the fact they stated that they cheated - voting from home and from work? If you remove all else, does that fact justify asking them to withdraw?

Suppose you answer 'no' to that last one - what do you say to whoever finishes second and third when they point out the winner admitted to cheating? Which is more damaging to your reputation?

I think this is the real core of the issue here, and really the only reason I feel the ENnie folks were correct in their decision. Now, even if they (thye being the FtB peeps) truely didn't vote from home and work and were just joking about that as part of their satire, the fact that they put it out there would shade any victory in their category and might be cause for complaints by others down the road. Like it or not, agree with it or not, the ENnies folks were plopped right down between Scylla and Charybdis and any road they took out would have potentially caused a ruckus. They seem to have chosen the ruckus that leaves them treating the ENnies as a serious business (relatively speaking), that should be taken as such by others as well. I can't say I'da done any different myself.

So we're sure none of the other categories in the Ennies have "cheating" then? I mean as long as we're sure, right?

Quote from: GoOrangeSee, what really got myself and a lot of other people up in arms was  This Post (http://feartheboot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=76595#76595) by Michael Morris, which directly contradicts what you are telling us here.

Quote from: Michael Morris on the FtB forumsYou are not being punished for revealing the weaknesses of the system. You are not being punished for cheating. You are being punished for holding the awards process in contempt, for encouraging cheating, for debasing and udevaluing both the awards and the process by which they are derived, and for calling into question the integrity of the awards.

At this point it's hard to know what to believe.

Why is it hard to know what to believe? Is it because the world is never as it seems at first glance? In life don't enemies sometimes turn out to be friends and friends to be enemies? Do you believe that speaking plainly never works? Do you believe people read what they want to read and hear what they want to hear and all too often they come away with just that information that upholds and confirms their prior prejudices and convictions? Does it make sense that I might as all good pooka do speak in riddles so that only those willing to reach beyond these all too human faults will understand, and those who are are unwilling walk away befuddled, confused and angry?

What of my statement above made when I'm not playing the trickster Pooka? Isn't it ironic to see that statement twisted far more thoroughly than the riddle-ridden language I use here? Didn't I state FtB was punished? Don't you think I chose that word carefully and used it very deliberately?  Punished. Didn't Denise say the actions of the board were for the cheating? Isn't punishment another thing entirely? Isn't it the result of the actions of the board, and not itself the action of the board? Aren't punishments in whatever form they take scaled not only to actions but to the consequences of the actions? Did I list just the actions or did I list the consequences? Think on it a moment. Think hard.  

Isn't cheating the same as "holding the awards process in contempt?" Isn't a consequence of not punishing cheating "encouraging cheating?" Isn't a consequence of cheating "debasing and devaluing both the awards and the process by which they are derived?" And doesn't cheating "call into question the integrity of the awards?" Aren't all of these consequences of the same single act - the same single act that prompted the board's action?

You all are gamers - certainly you've seen where Luke Skywalker tells ObiWan that "Ben, you'll find that many of the truths we cling to come from a certain point of view."  So don't you think when I wrote that I was speaking true to my point of view?  How can I speak to another?

Quote from: Serious PaulSo we're sure none of the other categories in the Ennies have "cheating" then? I mean as long as we're sure, right?

You cannot comprehend what has been repeatedly put to you plainly, so how do you expect to successfully interpret anything I have to say?

What a complete load of shit.

Quote from: DeniseFinally, I'd like to say that the ENnie Awards staff, Board, and judges are all volunteers who put in hundreds of hours every year into the Awards. And while none of us expect a pat on the back, it would be nice to not be rewarded with a kick to the teeth as it were.

We strive to maintain a high standard at all times in all aspects, but sometimes an individual staffer may snap when attacked, or make statements that do not bear out the Board's policies. I apologize if anyone associated with the ENnies has stepped over the line of professionalism and offended or misled anyone in this (or any other matter), and assure you that actions are being taken to discipline offenders and prevent re-occurrences.

Thank you for your understanding. I welcome emails at denise@ennieawards.com if you wish to continue this.



QFT

I just have to respond to this. I'm a podcasting fan and a Fear The Boot fan. What I'm about to say is my opinion.

You people crossed a very fine line when you registered on the FtB forums and began insulting them ON THEIR OWN BOARDS!!! You might as well drove to Dan's house. Knocked on the door. Walk into the middle of the gaming group and begin throwing supportive arguments about why you were right for two hours (equivalent of 16 pages on a forum)!!!

Dan was just letting people vent. ON HIS BOARDS! Let them! Damn!

That was not your soapbox!

Respect?! Respect works both ways. You guys have no right to respect.

Now, you want to handle the matter privately. Too f'in late! You opened your traps. Deal with the consiquences!

Fear The Boot is dealing with the result of their statements.

Grow up. Do the same.

Quote from: Serious PaulSo we're sure none of the other categories in the Ennies have "cheating" then? I mean as long as we're sure, right?

Sure or not, nobody else has come out in the open and explained that they do it, and explained how they do it, satirically or not. By doing that, the FtB peeps opened themselves up to being accused of it by others. If they hadn't, any accusations that they were could be seen as sour grapes. Try to look at it from the ENnie peeps POV, if they did nothing it would seriously damage what credibility they do have, and set back what credibility they'd like to build for themselves in the future. So, they take some flak now, but perhaps carry forward some perception of seriousness, a demonstration of their commitment to making the awards as fair as they can, and hopefully a willingness by the peeps in the RPG business to participate in the future.

Quote from: Serious PaulEspecially since a member of the ENnies staff seems to take such joy in being disruptive, and apparently they (The ENnies people) are fine with him going out to troll other boards for reactions and pick fights with people.

Michael Morris is a volunteer. I don't know how much experience you have in the non-profit sector but it has not been my experience that financially-strapped volunteer organizations have a lot of power to control what their volunteers do in their free time.

In my experience, if somebody gives you hundreds of hours of volunteer time and asks for nothing in return, this donation does not entitle you to control what they do in what fraction of their leisure time remains. Normally, it does the reverse; it often entitles the volunteer to make demands of the recipients of his donation -- and, to his credit, Michael has never made demands on the ENnies organization.

Michael, like all of us, has received advice from our board of directors. But it is his decision as to whether to follow it.

Quote from: Spartan2260I just have to respond to this. I'm a podcasting fan and a Fear The Boot fan. What I'm about to say is my opinion.

You people crossed a very fine line when you registered on the FtB forums and began insulting them ON THEIR OWN BOARDS!!! You might as well drove to Dan's house. Knocked on the door. Walk into the middle of the gaming group and begin throwing supportive arguments about why you were right for two hours (equivalent of 16 pages on a forum)!!!

Dan was just letting people vent. ON HIS BOARDS! Let them! Damn!

That was not your soapbox!

Respect?! Respect works both ways. You guys have no right to respect.

Now, you want to handle the matter privately. Too f'in late! You opened your traps. Deal with the consiquences!

Fear The Boot is dealing with the result of their statements.

Grow up. Do the same.

Although I don't feel as strongly about it, this is why I said before that the ENnie peeps were perhaps not handling this flak in the best way. There really were mistakes made by both sides of this ruckus.

Quote from: SigmundAlthough I don't feel as strongly about it, this is why I said before that the ENnie peeps were perhaps not handling this flak in the best way. There really were mistakes made by both sides of this ruckus.

I feel strongly about this. To me it's really simple.

Give out awards: Good.
Ask for entries: Even better.
Have rules: Excellent!
Enforce rules: Eye, eye, Cap'n!
Go onto a forum ran by the offending person to re-inforce your argument, then get defensive when not everyone agrees with you or pokes holes in your logic. Finally, vowing never to return to such a vile forum becuse you are above such things: Too late. Can opened. Worms a plenty!

Grow a pair and deal with it. Besides, words have consiquences.

Now. Where have I learned that from...

You know the fun thing about all of this? Fear the Boot is still the best podcast.


Heh.

They should stamp their website with "Totally disqualified from the Ennies awards!", I'd still listen.

Quote from: Spartan2260I feel strongly about this. To me it's really simple.

Give out awards: Good.
Ask for entries: Even better.
Have rules: Excellent!
Enforce rules: Eye, eye, Cap'n!
Get pissed when you go onto a forum ran by the offending person to re-inforce your argument, then get defensive when not everyone agrees with you or pokes holes in your logic. Finally, vowing never to return to such a vile forum becuse you are above such things: Too late. Can opened. Worms a plenty!

Grow a pair and deal with it. Besides, words have consiquences.

Now. Where have I learned that from...

I find I can't disagree with you on this point.

Quote from: Abyssal MawYou know the fun thing about all of this? Fear the Boot is still the best podcast.


Heh.

They should stamp their website with "Totally disqualified from the Ennies awards!", I'd still listen.

Here here, this is indeed the best part. And they SO should do that. Make it fun, make it a badge of honor.

Even better.

Boycott the ENnies this year. No nominee accepts an award. No spectators in the crowd.

Never gonna happen.

In a perfect world though...

One less better that the previous suggestion:
All winners thank Fear The Boot in their acceptance.

Quote from: James J SkachWhat a complete load of shit.

Do you have any idea what that statement says about you?

Quote from: PookaDo you have any idea what that statement says about you?

Michael, Alan has said it on ENW but I'll echo it here: SHUT THE FUCK UP.

I had more respect for the ENnies before one of their leaders showed up with an inability to answer direct questions, or indeed make any meaningful statements at all.

Pooka, If you value what your team has built, you may want to pay a little attention to your behavior in public.

And yes, I know I'll get some cockamamie excuse for socratic psychoanalysis for my troubles. But who knows, maybe you'll accidentally pay attention as well.

Quote from: Abyssal MawThey should stamp their website with "Totally disqualified from the Ennies awards!", I'd still listen.

Actually, in a delightfully irreverent sort of way, that's a great slogan that perfectly matches the tongue-in-cheek humor of the podcast. If they put that along with their logo on some Cafepress stuff, I'd buy one.

Quote from: Abyssal MawThey should stamp their website with "Totally disqualified from the Ennies awards!", I'd still listen.

Absolutely!  There's no such thing as bad publicity.  People hating you passionately is just as good for raising your profile as people loving you passionately ... often better.

Quote from: TonyLBAbsolutely!  There's no such thing as bad publicity.  People hating you passionately is just as good for raising your profile as people loving you passionately ... often better.

Yeah, because it induces curiosity as well as awareness :)

Quote from: TonyLBAbsolutely!  There's no such thing as bad publicity.  People hating you passionately is just as good for raising your profile as people loving you passionately ... often better.

Well, that's an interesting insight into your persona, Tony.

In other news, I SHALL NOT REST UNTIL THIS AWARD HAS BEEN RENAMED "THE  BOOTIES"

I mean, it's a way better name. The way it just rolls off the tongue like that. And who wouldn't be proud to have "Gotten Some Booty"?

Quote from: Abyssal MawWell, that's an interesting insight into your persona, Tony.

In other news, I SHALL NOT REST UNTIL AWARD HAS BEEN RENAMED "THE  BOOTIES"

Now that's funny right there.

Quote from: Abyssal MawAnd who wouldn't be proud to have "Gotten Some Booty"?

Dude you just made my day! Ha! Priceless!

Quote from: Abyssal MawWell, that's an interesting insight into your persona, Tony.

In other news, I SHALL NOT REST UNTIL THIS AWARD HAS BEEN RENAMED "THE  BOOTIES"

I like big butts and I cannot lie...

Oh, an actual boot reference.

Sorry.

Quote from: Abyssal MawWell, that's an interesting insight into your persona, Tony.

Is it now?  Oh goodie! :D

Anyone else notice this. I've been browsing other sites that reference this controversy. Just surfed to EnWorld. This is amazing.

The Denise doesn't know when enough is enough. From EN World:

Honestly? I don't think there is place here for that discussion. (note: refering to the EnWorld forums) The only discussion should be between the Board and the producers/hosts of Fear the Boot. Unfortunately, parts of those discussions spilled into the public and onto other forums. I even tried to explain things on the Fear the Boot forums, and the ENnies were trashed for it. And EN World does not tolerate inter-board drama.

They don't tollerate inter-board drama? Does that mean what I think it means?

No discussion on other public forums. How the hell are they gonna control that?! Contact every board admin and ask them to halt discussion? Who does she think she is?

Better check if my phone is tapped...

That's not what a "no interboard drama" policy means. Obviously you can't police what happens on other boards. But you can police what happens on your own board, and make sure that whatever drama happens elsewhere is not allowed to overtly spill into your own board.

Quote from: Abyssal MawWell, that's an interesting insight into your persona, Tony.

In other news, I SHALL NOT REST UNTIL THIS AWARD HAS BEEN RENAMED "THE  BOOTIES"

I mean, it's a way better name. The way it just rolls off the tongue like that. And who wouldn't be proud to have "Gotten Some Booty"?

Priceless!

I'd definitely like to be a judge for the Booties!

Edit: Listening to a different nominated podcast (not Fear the Boot) just now - their most recent episode has an ENnies plug saying "Vote early, vote often." Are they going to be DQed now?

Quote from: GoOrangePriceless!

I'd definitely like to be a judge for the Booties!

The post where they request that people send them texts for consideration would be a "Booty Call"!

Quote from: James McMurrayThat's not what a "no interboard drama" policy means. Obviously you can't police what happens on other boards. But you can police what happens on your own board, and make sure that whatever drama happens elsewhere is not allowed to overtly spill into your own board.

Makes sense.

Stir up things elsewhere then put a stop to it at your doorstep.

I can understand that. :rolleyes:

Quote from: TonyLBThe post where they request that people send them texts for consideration would be a "Booty Call"!

For some reason I'm being reminded of Married with Children.

Quote from: PookaDo you have any idea what that statement says about you?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say just about as much as the post to which it refers says about you.

Quote from: Spartan2260Makes sense.

Stir up things elsewhere then put a stop to it at your doorstep.

I can understand that. :rolleyes:

Yeah, that's not what was meant. What it means is that EN World isn't gonna let FtB get trashed at EN World, or allow EN Worlders to stage board invasions of FtB. Which, given the enormous population of EN World (50,000+, I think?), could be bad for FtB. Of course, they can't win either way; maybe they'd've been better off just mobilizing EN Worlders and yelling "Tally ho!" Plus, I'm sure Denise and others connected with the ENnies wish this had been handled very differently; when everyone involved is a volunteer, it's tough to clamp down on loose cannons.

But Circvs Maximvs is still there...

Quote from: ColonelHardissonYeah, that's not what was meant. What it means is that EN World isn't gonna let FtB get trashed at EN World, or allow EN Worlders to stage board invasions of FtB. Which, given the enormous population of EN World (50,000+, I think?), could be bad for FtB. Of course, they can't win either way; maybe they'd've been better off just mobilizing EN Worlders and yelling "Tally ho!" Plus, I'm sure Denise and others connected with the ENnies wish this had been handled very differently; when everyone involved is a volunteer, it's tough to clamp down on loose cannons.

But Circvs Maximvs is still there...

I think a lot of people should have thought before they posted, spoke, whatever. Those who choose not to hide behind anonymous user names have a unique responsibility to watch what they say.

You and I can go on a board. Go off on the ENnies personel, to a point, and maybe get a forum post pulled or a site membership suspended. Those are the rules. Most of us know that.

To raise the tension on an issue because you don't like that some anonymous poster questioned your abilities, or shared their dissatisfaction, is completely uncalled for.

As for who has the biggest posse? I could care less. They are all entitled to their opinions. Like I said, those organizing any pitchforks and torch rallies need to think REALLY hard before doing so. And be prepared to suffer the fallout of such actions.

I don't know what the whole truth is on both sides. I do know one sad fact of life. Perception is reality.

Quote from: Spartan2260As for who has the biggest posse? I could care less. They are all entitled to their opinions. Like I said, those organizing any pitchforks and torch rallies need to think REALLY hard before doing so. And be prepared to suffer the fallout of such actions.

The point I was making was that Morrus and Co. have been very consistent in running a classy operation where board invasions and needless slagging of individuals and (to an extent) companies is not tolerated. Honest criticism, respectfully stated, has always been encouraged. Morrus has a definite sense of responsibility commensurate with the size of the site. So it's not because he wants to be able to stir shit and run home where it's safe that EN World's policies are in place.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonThe point I was making was that Morrus and Co. have been very consistent in running a classy operation where board invasions and needless slagging of individuals and (to an extent) companies is not tolerated. Honest criticism, respectfully stated, has always been encouraged. Morrus has a definite sense of responsibility commensurate with the size of the site. So it's not because he wants to be able to stir shit and run home where it's safe that EN World's policies are in place.

All that may be true. From what I've witnessed, some currently in said operation have lost sight of that. They have taken it upon themselves to access third party sites to make their points.

I can understand others in the community, like myself, that has to access third party sites (like this one) to give our opinions. The ENnies have such an area. Denise, and others, have their own forums to utilize.

Apparently the EN World site must remain pristine and pure while other fan sites address the issue and allow all comers positive or negative (to a point). Then, ENnie represenatives use those third party sites to defend their precious awards from ridicule. They work hard. I know. They have no problem expressing that fact.

Fear The Boot allowed sixteen pages of comments before locking the forum. This currently has twelve. EN World. None.

And that, my friend, says a lot.

Hi everyone,

I'm working my way around the various boards where conflict conflagrated due to my or ENnies staff tread with regards to the Fear the Boot situation.

Please allow me to apologize to the Hosts and Producers of Fear the Boot for my and my staff's behaviour. I unfairly held FtB up to a higher standard than the one by which we acted.  They pleaded with their fans to stop the attacks, and some of us, rather than walking away thankful for the reprieve, chose to continue the fight.

I'd also like to retract any implication that the hosts actively engaged in a smear campaign.  Yes, their fans did, and we retaliated in kind, but the hosts were quite commendable in their efforts to resolve this issue peacefully.  If only some of us (mostly me) had the tact to do the same!

We are developing a code of conduct to which all staff will have to agree to adhere in the public dealings of the Awards, and I will make every effort to lead by example from now on.  We will also start up an ennieawards.com set of forums so that if we feel we need to discuss something in a public forum we can invite those interested to do so rather than having to chase down threads across the 'Net on other boards and be perceived as "invading" other boards.

The Board -comprised of Russell Morrissey, Richard J. Miller, and I- still stand by the decision to ask FtB to withdraw, but deeply regrets the subsequent multi-board ugliness that ensued as a result therof.  There was a lot of miscommunication between the sides and misunderstandings which led to a comedy of errors- except nobody seems to be laughing.

If you have anything else to say about the ENnies, I encourage you to do so via my email denise@ennieawards.com.  I don't think I'm going to have enough time to watch all these boards what with getting ready to leave for Gen Con.  Thank you for your understanding.

Quote from: DeniseWe are developing a code of conduct to which all staff will have to agree to adhere in the public dealings of the Awards...The Board -comprised of Russell Morrissey, Richard J. Miller, and I-

Reading between the lines: Michael Morris had no right to imply an official position on the issue and we will try to make him keep his mouth shut in the future.
 
It seems like it was his comments more than the decision that stirred things up.  On the bright side, the minor controversy probably gave FtB more attention than they would have gotten for winning an Ennie in a minor category like best podcast.

Quote from: NicephorusIt seems like it was his comments more than the decision that stirred things up.  On the bright side, the minor controversy probably gave FtB more attention than they would have gotten for winning an Ennie in a minor category like best podcast.

Irony, thy name is life...

Seanchai