It seems that we've reached a critical mass of Fate enthusiasts here on the RPG Site. So, here are my questions.
BTW I'm sure the game is fine. It's just me.
How do you deal with the fact that characters don't advance very much? The answer I usually get is that the aspects change, but for me at least that doesn't have the same impact as getting a new Feat or something. Is this just something Fate doesn't give you?
How do you deal with the tremendous number of aspects in play. Given the large number of character aspects, situational aspects, etc. in play in any scene that seems kind of crazy.
I get that Aspects grant permissions and are always true, which is used to explain how you can make Superman by just giving a character an aspect (Man of Steel), and then allow him to throw a car by making a Might roll (a normal character wouldn't be permitted to to this). However, you also have Stunts, and Extras, all the way to full on Mantles in DFA. This seems super confusing.
How would you handle a conversion of a game like VtM, with its disciplines? Are those powers or stunts or what?
How would you handle a conversion of a game like Demon the Descent, where you basically gain a bunch of smaller, unrelated, fiddly powers?
Are there ways to manage the "it's my job to stretch the heck out of this Aspect to auto win this situation?" Whenever I ask this to Fate enthusiasts, I'm always told that this only happens at tables that are "antagonistic." However, at least in my experience, what happens is that players become invested and immersed to some extent with their characters, and BUT because character aspects are "stretchy", they know that they can accomplish stuff by just arguing that their aspect permits them to do something that is kind of extreme. They're not being jerks or antagonistic. Is there a way to kind of document more up front what the heck the aspect means and allows? This gets even more complicated with Declarations. What limits the scope of a declaration? It seems like your Declarations could declare anything. e.g., "I'm a former Dedicated Army Ranger" so I can call up friends and order an air strike that resolves this entire scenario. Unlike a game like HeroQuest II, aspects don't even have a rating of any kind so there's no limit on how effective the scope of a Declaration or thing I'm justifying can be. I get that some kind of narrative truth is supposed to restrict this, but in the moment, if I'm invested in my character, I'm going to stretch the crap out of my aspects to resolve situations. And, unlike Declaration, trying to make something true through aspect justification doesn't require a fate point so even that limit is missing.
Speaking of Declarations, is it fine to just as a GM say no or suggest something else if the Declaration puts you the GM in a situation where you can't figure out what to do next.
I just bought the 2nd edition of Strands of Fate, which solves some of these problems a little bit, but still has the same general things going on. Also, it comes with a default how you do powers thing by giving you a list of powers, which is cool, but that means it's kind of hard to map either of the above examples directly to it (same as w/ Savage Worlds).
On the subject of advancing. That one is a very YMMV sort of thing. Some RPGs pretty much frontload your character and they do not grow much once out the gate. In some this may be because most of the advancement is in equipment or action rather than personal. Gamma World is a good example. No levels, skills, etc. You created a character and went out and did stuff and collected stuff. GW and a few other RPGs are sort of proto FATE games in that respect as character growth is through the things you do, and sometimes the stuff you find.
Some others have growth through action. You can learn skills, or improve through training. But you are still pretty much your starting character. It just may be you can shoot a little straighter eventually. Star Frontiers and Boot Hill come to mind there. Again growth is through action and adventure rather than new widgets. Pretty much how my own RPG worked too. The character was 99% frontloaded. Any advancement was through learning or improving through doing, rather than just accumulating EXP.
There's a lot of ground to cover in that post. Some of it I see as a non-issue (advancing), to curious (why is the game supposed to be able to port fiddely powers on a 1:1 conversion?), to others I don't have time to go into in this moment (in part because I'm not Fate expert, though I have played it a bit and am playing Tachyone Squadron right now.)
What I do want to address is the "stretching aspects" bit. Here is how you manage it:
The Referee says no.
That's it. That's how it is done.
The Referee's job is to set tone, powers, and the reality.
That's it. That's how it is done.
I know a lot of people around here cry themselves to sleep each night about all the games where the Players run roughshod over the Referee and the Referee has no authority. I belive such games are out there. I also know I'm not familiar with them. Fate certainly isn't one of them.
Now some people might play it that way if they want. But that's the people, not the game. The same people could run roughshod over a DM in a game of OD&D. The DM's screen isn't going to save the game if that's how the people at the table want to play the game.
So, the way it works is a player says, "I can do this becaus of X." And the Referee says, "Explain to me how, cause I don't see it." And then the Player tries some sort of logical contoration, and the Referee says, "Nope."
It is no different than someone playing OD&D saying, "My Fighting-Man has a Strength of 18. He jumps to the moon." And the DM says, "No you don't."
It is no different at all.
Fate is all about the cliche chargen. If you can get past that, then everything else about the game will probably seem ok. At least for one-shots.
Great analogy
Refresh, which doubles as a currency that you can spend on more Stunts and Extras, is pretty rare; but you normally gain a skill point every 3 to 5 sessions. Skills in Fate tend to be broader than in a lot of other games, and a +1 in Fate tends to mean more than in a lot of other games, so that's still a pretty significant boost. A lot of things handled by "class abilities" will just be handled by your regular Aspects and Skills in Fate(front-loaded that way), but for the ones that aren't - where you'll need a Stunt or Extra to duplicate - then yeah, you're not going to get those very often. Only when you have the Refresh to spare and the inclination to spend it.
Can I recommend people interested even vaguely in FATE material to check 'Baroque Space Opera'. That is, assuming they like things akin to Dune, Stargate, Warhammer 40 000 and ESPECIALLY the Jodow-verse (The Incal and The Metabarons). Especially the last one. This is one I'd love to one day run with some other system.
Quote from: PencilBoy99;1065162Great analogy
Thanks!
Advancement depends on the version of FATE you're using. And it's easy to houserule. You just need to be aware of the genre you're using.