Normally this type of stuff would be under News. But what interesting about Fantasy Grounds (http://www.fantasygrounds.com/) being on Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/app/252690/) is that like all Steam apps it has an associated discussion forum. And the population of Steam Gamers lie mostly outside of tabletop gaming.
Aside from the troll posts there are a lot of interesting comments (http://steamcommunity.com/app/252690/discussions/) posted on the discussion forum including more than a few "How do I play Pen & Paper".
The 25% off of the full license is pretty darn tempting too. 44 hours left on that.
I need to look, but is this like Artemis where they changed the licensing scheme to match Steam and/or encourage sales? E.g. can players play without buying it?
Does anyone here know the level of effort involved with making a new D20-based ruleset for Fantasy Grounds? Or any other VT, for that matter...
The thing I'm thinking of looking at this is: Steam sales on fantasy grounds. Can't wait until it drops into a good sale. Never really wanted to get it because the cost seemed a bit too rich for me personally.
(I hope they do. The app published by the company I work for drops down to 66% off during Steam Sales pretty regularly.)
Quote from: Bobloblah;749577Does anyone here know the level of effort involved with making a new D20-based ruleset for Fantasy Grounds? Or any other VT, for that matter...
two words...
XML
and
Lua
All the data you are entering is going to be formatted in a series of xml documents, both original rulesets and extensions. Any scripting you are going to be doing for automation of tasks is going to be in the Lua programming language.
The reason a fully-functioning VTT hasn't really taken off yet is because they are by programmers for programmers for the most part. So if you want to play 100% RAW, where customization means picking what rulebooks you want to include, you're cool, anything else and you're hand-editing an xml file, or doing scripting. There aren't really even useful "builders".
Thanks (not sarcasm, I appreciate the response), but I understand how it's done. I'm trying to get a sense of the scope of effort involved from someone who has either attempted it, or seriously looked into doing so.
Not exactly sure what level of "work" you're asking about. I've played around with most of them at one time or another, it all depends on what level of changes you are interested in.
Taking an existing ruleset and making some minor mods to BAB, Saves, weapon damage...a couple hours to find it, understand it, and change it. Less as you get better at it.
Making a highly customized D20 ruleset using the core engine only, supplying your own data, and fully automating combat tracking...easily hundreds of hours of work and testing, not including any graphics changes.
Check here if you're looking for more detailed scope of work estimations. Fantasy Grounds Workshop Forum (http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?42-The-Workshop)
Quote from: Bobloblah;749589Thanks (not sarcasm, I appreciate the response), but I understand how it's done. I'm trying to get a sense of the scope of effort involved from someone who has either attempted it, or seriously looked into doing so.
I've done it for MapTool, if that counts. It's essentially very much as was described. You have the basic die roller and map with pogs, and everything else extends from there.
For Pathfinder I grabbed someone else's toolkit and start whittling it down to what we actually wanted. I added a conversion utility to go from a custom formatted PCGen character sheet to a maptool object, and that alone spoiled me on that whole process. There were just SO MANY moving parts.
For our RIFTS D6 game I started with some WEG Star Wars tools, but they were just worthless. I wound up coding my own modular D6 roller and working it in to the character sheets one module at a time. Then I would change a design decision and go back and repeat the process. It was murder when piled on top of all the other work playing via VTT adds to an already busy job.
Yeah it's rough, no doubt about it. Even if you do something like compare the 3.5e and Pathfinder Rulesets to see how to implement the changes, if you're not a professional coder, just a hobbyist, your brain will bleed.
Now that they have an official CoC and BRP Ruleset, my heart is telling me "RQ6, do it!", my brain is already reaching for the migraine medication.
Next and Numenera in core. Dammit. Tempting.
Quote from: CRKrueger;749583So if you want to play 100% RAW, where customization means picking what rulebooks you want to include, you're cool, anything else and you're hand-editing an xml file, or doing scripting. There aren't really even useful "builders".
There's one being kickstarted right now, that will allow you to build rulesets in a wysiwyg program.
Here it is:
http://www.verkami.com/locale/en/projects/7992-ruleset-wizard-for-fantasy-grounds (http://www.verkami.com/locale/en/projects/7992-ruleset-wizard-for-fantasy-grounds)
Quote from: CRKrueger;749608Taking an existing ruleset and making some minor mods to BAB, Saves, weapon damage...a couple hours to find it, understand it, and change it. Less as you get better at it.
Making a highly customized D20 ruleset using the core engine only, supplying your own data, and fully automating combat tracking...easily hundreds of hours of work and testing, not including any graphics changes.
Personally I'd just use it for a map, maybe some LoS/Fog of War stuff, and that's about it. Let the rules be handled by people.
It seems like any ruleset integrated tightly enough to actually work (as a ruleset) would have to be so ingrained into the system that doing anything outside of it would be a pain in the ass.
I run a weekly Fantasy Grounds campaign, and yes, at first it felt like the program got in the way of whatever the ruleset didn't cover, but I realized that anything not covered could be applied the same way you would do it a a real table. The automation helps immensely with things like initiative in big combats, applying damage and other effects to enemies automatically, etc. I find that for me, a less rules-concerned GM, it makes the game go faster during play. The primary drawback is that it requires significant preparation ahead of time, and if the group goes a different way, that work is wasted.
By prep you're talking about maps, pogs, handouts, etc?
Yes, all that, and applying grids to the maps, masking, etc. For pathfinder, the monsters from bestiaries 1-3 are available as statted-up creatures, but if I want their spell-like abilities to apply in combat, I have to script them myself. There is a book with some NPCs, as well, but it never seems to have the one I need (8th level Orc Ranger). Then you have to take the creatures/NPCs you've built and build encounters, set up treasure parcels, etc.
A lot of this can be mitigated with shortcuts, but that just means that the characters will be fighting a lot more monsters than NPCS, and receiving a lot more gold than items.
As an example of the prep- I have a game on Saturday that goes for 4 hours, and I've learned to start prepping on Thursday. So far I've done one map in Photoshop today.
You can Google quite a few maps, but you'd be surprised at how many concepts for areas are actually missing from the internet. I can't find a palace to save my life.
If I was running this face to face, we could wing it on a battlemat, or run it without the map. The issue with FG is that to apply effects, you need the map. I suppose to could put the characters and their enemies on a blank map and use it, of course.
I know just what you mean. I still have an extensive collection of source material to use with a VTT. Gigs and gigs of it.
So as I suspected, they did change the licensing model for Steam.
These are the options on the main site:
Full License (GM and/or Player) **SALE* - $29.25 - *SALE** $39
Lite License (Player Only) $24
Ultimate License (Players connect and Play for Free) $149
Full to Ultimate License Upgrade $115
On Steam you have only one choice ($29/39). But with the four pack, you do get one copy for free as usual.
It isn't clear whether everyone needs to pay for the ruleset or not. I suspect not, but with the Steam angle it's certainly possible.
Quote from: Monster Manuel;749626I run a weekly Fantasy Grounds campaign, and yes, at first it felt like the program got in the way of whatever the ruleset didn't cover, but I realized that anything not covered could be applied the same way you would do it a a real table. The automation helps immensely with things like initiative in big combats, applying damage and other effects to enemies automatically, etc. I find that for me, a less rules-concerned GM, it makes the game go faster during play. The primary drawback is that it requires significant preparation ahead of time, and if the group goes a different way, that work is wasted.
In face to face I use miniatures and dwarven forge a lot. I don't have an infinite palette to create stuff with. For the average encounter I learned to make do with what I have. If I know the party is going to be somewhere specific then I do extra prep.
I handle Fantasy Grounds in the same way. I have a set of maps and tokens similar to my face to face setup. Maps and stuff that I can throw together to represent a variety of area. And when I know the party is going to be dealing a specific area, I do extra prep.
With that being said I recommend the following.
Lythia.com (http://www.lythia.com/) a website devoted to fan works for Harn.
In particular
The Harn Pottage series (http://www.lythia.com/series/pottage-series/)
And Many Manors (http://www.lythia.com/index.php?s=many+manors) series.
The Cartographers Guild (http://www.cartographersguild.com/content/) is an excellent source of maps. As well as just a good place to learn about mapping.
Devin Night's Tokens (http://immortalnights.com/tokensite/)
Note if you buy his tokens on Roll20 (or anybody elses) you can download them as a set for your own use, like for Fantasy Grounds, as well as use them in Roll 20.
The Vintyri project (http://www.vintyri.org/vintyri/index.htm) has a bunch of free symbol that can work as tokens.