I'm curious about GURPS: Transhuman Space. I'm wondering if it is worth picking up. I'm wondering if it will satisfy my twin gaming interests in Traveller and Cyberpunk.
So why is it that every time I start to ask about the game, I get responses from fans telling me how wonderful Transhumanism is and how cool it will be when we can finally download our conciousness from a male body into a female body? I'm looking for a game, not a philosophy.
Consequently, I haven't picked up Transhuman Space.
What game has fans that have turned you off from buying it?
Burning Wheel's author offended me, so I won't try it. Many Indie games have very annoying fans that sound more like proselytizers than fans, so I try to avoid big discussions about new Indie games.
Except Indie discussions here, where the discussion tends to be discussion.
Around here when Hackmaster first hit there were some really annoying fans of the game. The proclaims that it was like old school D&D with bad layouts, charts all over the place and stuff like that. How great it was to spend hours to make a character. How crunchy the system was.
Never found out if any of that was true or not cause I never gave it a chance after that. Especially with that group of people.
Honestly, I don't let "fans" affect me negatively, usually. I tend to read the comments and make my own decision. A good example for me is Dogs in the Vineyard. Back when I could show my face on TBP, it was starting to gain some traction so I bought it and read it and played a PbP game for a bit, and honestly, I kinda liked it. I know around here it has a "swinish" reputation, but I enjoyed it.
Take it for what its worth. But for the most part I'll try anything once.
I must concur...
Whenever the transhuman space rpg comes up, fanboys start to use the word: "transhumanism".
I have no idea what this word means, or what they are refering to. Because they never bother to explain it, it seems one is assumed to just know.
I then drift away, blissful in my ignorance.
Oh, I will never buy anything hero 5. The fanboys are convinced it is perfect for any genre. And will not hesitate to tell you so.
But I have seen the hero 5 rule-book, and it is entierly too thick to be perfect for anything.
Jaeger, HERO stops fucking bullets, yo.
Quote from: peteramthorAround here when Hackmaster first hit there were some really annoying fans of the game. The proclaims that it was like old school D&D with bad layouts, charts all over the place and stuff like that. How great it was to spend hours to make a character. How crunchy the system was.
Never found out if any of that was true or not cause I never gave it a chance after that. Especially with that group of people.
Hackmaster IS 1st edition AD&D. It really is. The artwork is sometimes changed, and theres some new goofy stuff...but it IS 1st edition D&D. Same rules, same charts, same everything.
Quote from: joewolzJaeger, HERO stops fucking bullets, yo.
I stand corrected.
Upon further reflection, and scientific examination; I must concede that the Hero 5 rulebook can indeed stop bullets from small calibre firearms.
Magic, the gathering fans send me packing. I tried gaming with some once. Never again. Every time we set up a rpg session, tose fucking cardheads were playing MTG. I was left to wait until I got disguisted and left, disappointed.
After repeated occurences of this I dropped the game, and then they said I was the bad player who quit!
Quote from: Dominus NoxMagic, the gathering fans send me packing. I tried gaming with some once. Never again. Every time we set up a rpg session, tose fucking cardheads were playing MTG. I was left to wait until I got disguisted and left, disappointed.
After repeated occurences of this I dropped the game, and then they said I was the bad player who quit!
I have a T-shirt with a scroll on it that says, "Protection From Magic - no person may play MtG within 10' of this scroll". I wore it into a game club one night and a guy running a MtG tournement (who didn't own the club) told me I had to leave or take off the T-shirt because it made people uncomfortable. I loudly asked the fifteen or so CCG players there if they thought my T-shirt made them uncomfortable - got a resounding number of "No" answers and a few asking me where they could buy their own. The guy running the tournement said he'd take it up with the club owner.
I never heard a thing from the owner about the T-shirt, except that he wanted one too.
I like old school D&D, I really do. But when I go to Dragonsfoot and see the occasional battles between the purists and the houserulers, it makes me want to find each and every single one of them so I can punch them right in the kidneys.
I generally ignore opinions, either positive or negative, that aren't backed up by actual play of the system. It helps me to weed through both a lot of knee-jerk reactionary dislike and jump-on-the-bandwagon sycophancy.
I recall (perhaps imperfectly) that on one of the threads about Transhuman Space someone posted details about how they had this awesome session played out entirely through rented bodies by way of AI transmission. They had an adventure just laying the groundwork for their physical characters to arrive on planet. That sounded pretty cool. Maybe I'll pick it up some day.
Nope, though most of my favourites have fans that make my eyes bleed. I'll also admit I probably wouldn't be so rabidly anti d20 if Bradford didn't piss me off so much.
Smug bastard. He's probably playing D&D with naked supermodel geek girls right now!
The "Transhumanist" stuff can get a little thick, though I think I've never really picked it up, because, in the end, it just wasn't what I wanted my sci-fi games to be.
I downloaded Wushu, gave it an honest shot, but it just wasn't my cup of tea. It was not helped, however, by the jackasses who brought it up in seemingly every other thread on TBP ("I'd Use Wushu"!). A little too fanatical and shilling for my tastes.
Re:Fans That Turn You Off Of A Game
No, not really. I imagine that, given past experience, that if I look hard enough most every game will have a fan or a dozen that'll turn me off my dinner. So if I started worrying about such I wouldn't be playing much, would I? Or I'd have to lock myself in my room and turn off the computer. :) Besides even Hitler drank water.
I will say that the opposite has been true though, there have been detractors that have lead me to check out a game.
Same thing goes for the people that write games. They'd have to be the sort that goes around literally ganking grandmothers before I gave pause to buying their game. Jerks? Hey, flymice strikes me as the rough the equivalent of a Montana Freeman standing on a case of baked beans claiming he's the last living USA patriot. But if the game he writes plays? *shrug* Whatever. We buy from jerks
every single day. I don't mean RPGs I mean life in general.
Quote from: TonyLBI generally ignore opinions, either positive or negative, that aren't backed up by actual play of the system. It helps me to weed through both a lot of knee-jerk reactionary dislike and jump-on-the-bandwagon sycophancy.
Yeah, I'm kinda saddened that a lot of reviews out there aren't from people that have played the game they are reviewing more. Though I do understand the volume of reviews that some people do pretty much preclude many of their reviews being based on much more than creating a character and
maybe a single session. Those that go beyond that, I really appreciate that.
P.S. That's why I really liked that McCrow linked those three AP threads in the Agon threads. I think those really help get a better handle of what the game is like.
Well, the "D20 is the best system ever and your system of choice should be destroyed" D&D fan crowd really irritates the piss out of me sometimes. Bradford Walker used to be the representative for that community, but seems to have mellowed and been replaced by Pundit.
Needless to say, I'm constantly embarrassed to have ever played Palladium games whenever the Siembieda culties raise their heads.
The fandom for Exalted on RPGnet was pretty bad, but it's not reflective of anything outside the Purple Palace.
I've seen a bunch of people slag on Magic: the Gathering players, and it's always a drag for me. I won't deny that there are some funky dudes who play the game, but the people I played with were always pretty decent. They ranged from guys who were simply clean, if not terribly attractive, to some very well-dressed gentlemen and ladies.
I know that I, in particular, always dressed nicely to go to tournaments to put on a good impression.
One of several reasons I stopped playing Warhammer 40K was the fan base. I really didn't like the extremely competitive character of playing with strangers.
The gunbunnies finally turned me off cyberpunk 2020. It was bad enough getting "Dude, XX country sucks because they're not allowed to own a GUN!" threads every few days from one of the site moderators, but when I suggested a variation to the bullet damage rules I got shouted down because I'd picked the wrong bullets as examples, and nobody even mentioned the basic concept of the system which IMHO was sound.
Irony is, the site admin there was from the UK (few miles up the road from me actually) where gun ownership is virtually impossible.
Pretty much anyone who posts about forge games, and RPGnets darling of the week/month/whatever posters.
I had a very bad experience with a Deadlands GM. It almost made me swear off the game. Almost.
Quote from: RockViperPretty much anyone who posts about forge games, and RPGnets darling of the week/month/whatever posters.
Isn't that sort of the other way around? Games that turn you off the fans? ;)
Exalted, Vampire and any other White Wolf games.
d20
Hero
Wushu
The only game I can think of that fits the title of this thread would be Vampire:the Masquerade for me.
Almost 8 or 9 years ago, some friends and I were at MARCON in Columbus, Oho and a bunch of people were playing a LARP version of Vampire. They were so rude in their behavior that we took an instant dislike to that game for YEARS. We were so ticked that we thought of making wood stakes with clan names and putting them on Klingon sashes as a sarcastic joke. We didn't meet any reasonable players of Vampire till many years later.
Now I work wth a co-worker who is storyteller for World of Darkness LARP games played once a month. He's okay to talk to. He also recently started playing D&D 3.5/D20 , so at least LARP isn't the only type of game that he plays.
- Ed
Quote from: jeff37923I'm curious about GURPS: Transhuman Space. I'm wondering if it is worth picking up. I'm wondering if it will satisfy my twin gaming interests in Traveller and Cyberpunk.
So why is it that every time I start to ask about the game, I get responses from fans telling me how wonderful Transhumanism is and how cool it will be when we can finally download our conciousness from a male body into a female body? I'm looking for a game, not a philosophy.
Consequently, I haven't picked up Transhuman Space.
What game has fans that have turned you off from buying it?
Strong, kind of... inappropriate advocacy turns me off a game to the extent that I suspect I might not like the community (although that kind of advocacy is, honestly, so pervasive, that if I were rigorous about applying that standard, I'd probably be left with a bad taste about many games).
I'm especially wary of fans defending systems they really, really like against what looks like (potentially) valid criticism. I don't remember the specifics, but I saw this kind of thing with Savage Worlds -- a system I would probably otherwise have looked into, since it's the sort of generic system I tend to enjoy.
Quality being equal, I'd rather play a game by someone I respect than someone I don't -- but just as with music, I'm willing to go with product quality over my personal opinion of the author at the end of the day.
Finally, I'd be willing to play almost anything at least once -- but with so many good systems to choose from and limited gaming time, mild negatives are enough to cull out most of the options.
Cheers,
-E.
It pains me to say it because I love the game. But fans of Classic Traveller can be rabidly defensive and parochial, especially now that T5 is on the horizon, and with it (shudder) change.
Not saying that T5 will be great. It will probably be bad. But they don't resent its possible badness--they resent its very existence, good or bad.
Yep. It has happened to me most often with Exalted, where I realize that I have a casual interest in the game and enjoy it where other folk have a... much stronger interest in the game.
Although I will admit it wasn't the fans, but the philosophy, that held me from C&C, the constant pimping of the game at every turn by its fans really drove me batshit.
Quote from: C.W.RichesonYep. It has happened to me most often with Exalted, where I realize that I have a casual interest in the game and enjoy it where other folk have a... much stronger interest in the game.
I find this the worst. And I'm talking in more general terms too. It doesn't really put me off the game or whatever but I have at times been a bit more guarded about mentioning my involvement.
Quote from: Caesar SlaadAlthough I will admit it wasn't the fans, but the philosophy, that held me from C&C, the constant pimping of the game at every turn by its fans really drove me batshit.
Thanatos02 and I had a running joke about using C&C for everything that stemmed from a particularly shill-heavy period on TBP. The proper response was always "I'd use Exalted!"
"Hmm... What kind of food should we order for lunch?"
"Have you tried Castles & Crusades? It sounds perfect for something like this."
Quote from: Pierce InverarityIt pains me to say it because I love the game. But fans of Classic Traveller can be rabidly defensive and parochial, especially now that T5 is on the horizon, and with it (shudder) change.
Not saying that T5 will be great. It will probably be bad. But they don't resent its possible badness--they resent its very existence, good or bad.
I've run across this as well on CotI, where T5 has been shot down before it even got published.
I especially wonder about the Planetary Scientist who apparently hates Traveller, but hangs out on a forum dedicated to Traveller just so that he can express his hatred for Traveller. When is enough, enough for someone like that?
You mean Malenfant? He's a good guy in my book, even though he sometimes loses it... but not without reason. Unlike some of the CT grognards he wants T5 to happen, and unlike Marc (it seems sometimes) he really really really wants T5 to become the best Traveller version ever. So, it's a two-front war for him, and that can get grating. But essentially, his point is not unreasonable.
The great thing about a game's annoying fans is that you instantly know who not to play it with.
Dr Rotwang! FTW, again. :win:
I pay attention to Actual Play reports. I don't give a fuck about fans. Also, Rotwang is right.
Quote from: ImperatorAlso, Rotwang is right.
You say that like he's ever
wrong.
Quote from: BrantaiYou say that like he's ever wrong.
Oh, but he is, and frequently. He just owns up to it.
I find it funny that I can meet the annoying authors and fans before ever purchasing a game in this day and age. I guess I'm old fashioned. I go to gameshops look at the game, decide to purchase it, try to play it, and then research questions I have with the author and fans.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Oh, but he is, and frequently. He just owns up to it.
Huh? I missed the post where you renounced that Human League's decision to release a single was the pinacle of the 80's and instead bowed down in worship of the pop genius that is Cyndi Lauper?
:keke:
I was turned off to the Book of Erotic Fantasy (aka The Book of Elf Porn) because of ArthurQ. In the event that you weren't around ENWorld at the appropriate time, he was running around evangalizing the book at every turn. well before it had even come out, and as far as I know, he hadn't even seen a copy prior to its release. At Gen Con, he also invited the models who appeared in the book up to his hotel room for a "private photo shoot," prompting Anthony Valterra, the company owner to make it absolutely that Arthur had no connection to his company whatsoever, and that if they chose to accompany him to his room, they did so at their own risk.
Quote from: blakkieHuh? I missed the post where you renounced that Human League's decision to release a single was the pinacle of the 80's...
Never gonna happen.
Quote from: blakkie... and instead bowed down in worship of the pop genius that is Cyndi Lauper?
Cyndi is-a mah GIRL-frend.
Quote from: David JohansenSmug bastard. He's probably playing D&D with naked supermodel geek girls right now!
They're vicious too. They ripped through
Shackled City like lightsabers through droids. Fear the table filled with naked supermodel geek girls! :)
Normally I'm fine, but I especially abhor Rolemaster fanboys. :maniac:
And I like Rolemaster. :shrug:
Quote from: ClaudiusNormally I'm fine, but I especially abhor Rolemaster fanboys. :maniac:
And I like Rolemaster. :shrug:
Quote from: Caesar SlaadAlthough I will admit it wasn't the fans, but the philosophy, that held me from C&C, the constant pimping of the game at every turn by its fans really drove me batshit.
Hmmm ... I like
both Rolemaster (or at least 2e/ 'Classic')
and C&C.
Plus I'm intrinsically annoying ... :raise:
See I can deal with people on the internet. It's easy to move past a post or completely ignore a thread. I am drawing all my experience from real life events. The rpg fans that turned me off my their beloved games is White Wolf fans. Here is the short and skinny. My group has been playing for the past 10 years off and on. Sometimes we lose a famaliar face and have to recruit a new one. We are open to many systems but our favorites would be SR and DnD. Call us vanilla. Whenever we get a new person in it mostly works out.
There has been 5 different occasions we found a person via the net or a "friend of a friend" and they were diehard White Wolf fans. With the first person in particular, we were open minded with Vampire and would consider it after the campaign we had going. He said he was interested in playing our game from the start and we thought everything was cool. That's when he started criticizing every aspect of the game while inserting a shameless promotion for Vampire. We didn't ask this person for their opinion of the game we chose at any point. That ended quickly. The four other circumstances went by similiarly.
So it was ruined for us.